@@drive-channel1834pretty sure they removed the aero covers for the video. But the serviceability is great and probably saves Kia money on their long ass warranty.
Regarding that pump, I understand the desire for integration for cost & weight reduction. But as a consumer, repairing/replacing that pump will be insanely easier where it is. Curious about your thoughts re balancing cost & manufacturability vs serviceability
It was good to see them at least mention serviceability towards the end. Sandy always seems to completely ignore repair considerations in his analysis.
I drove 3 cars 150k+ miles. Never had to replace any pumps. Serviceability needs to be weighed in against reliability. If they are reliable, integrate it all day long. Doesn’t matter.
@@Enemji these electric pumps could definitely fail before 100,000 miles so it is worth considering, though it’s not something a manufacturer would usually take much time to think about as it’s usually outside of warranty period.
I can identify with that. I had a Nissan LEAF with three coolant pumps. One was in the PTC cabin heat loop and the other two pumps were in series in the EDM, inverter, charger loop. Nissan put the charging inverter all the way in back and ran coolant lines all the way back. One of the series connected pumps on my car failed with an ODB code “PWM output stuck high.” Even from a heavily discounted seller, the replacement pump cost about $400. The Nissan shop manual has an insanely complex procedure for completely draining the loop before changing the pump and followed by repeated burping of air after refilling. Lucky for me, the bad pump was on the passenger side inner fender. It was easy to clamp the rubber line on either side of the pump, pour the old pump’s coolant into the new pump, and reattach the hoses. My way took about half an hour. The shop manual way was at least a few hour job. If those had been nylon lines, the clamp-off method would not have been easy/possible. That electric pump only lasted 32K miles. There was a lot of stuff that broke at low miles on the LEAF. I am glad I bought the LEAF used and I was happy to bid the LEAF farewell too after a lot of nickel and dime repairs.
@@Enemji Many BMWs since ~2007 have had electric water pumps that tend to fail around 80-120k. It was a huge pain to replace because they tucked it away to minimize hose length (and I think to place it in the position of the belt driven one it replaced). I would happily take the extra weight and efficiency loss for reparability.
The EV6 features the world's first mass-produced Integrated Drive Axle (IDA). It connects the wheel bearing and the drive shaft into one unit, with which the engine power is transmitted to the wheel. By developing a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub, the number of parts has been reduced and the weight reduced by 3 kg. In addition, the innovative concept prevents defects in the connections between the drive shaft and the wheel bearing. At the same time, the 42 percent increase in axle rigidity has a positive effect on driving behavior and handling. The modern damper technology of the EV6 combines the sporty Kia character with a level of comfort that one hardly expects from such agile vehicles. The new dampers contain the usual components, but have an additional piston to adjust the pressure on the rebound stage and thus its damping force depending on the input frequency. This frequency-selective technology with hydraulic cable stop ensures a sporty, stable ride at lower frequencies and a smooth, comfortable ride at higher frequencies, such as those encountered on bad roads or cobblestones.
@Lurking Grue using a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub, the number of parts has been reduced and the weight reduced by 3 kg. Means fewer parts = lower costs.
A wheel bearing for Honda or Acura is available for 30 or 40 dollars. The EV6 has the integrated drive axle, so repairs down the line will be much more expensive.
@@DerekDavis213 The development of a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub reduced the number of parts and reduced the weight by 3 kg. In addition, the new concept "prevents defects in the connections between drive shaft and wheel bearing". At the same time, the 42 percent increase in axle stiffness has a positive effect on handling and handling.
@@haraldschon252 But I say again: bearings will eventually fail. How much to replace the bearing if it is now part of the axle assembly? Replacing a bearing on Camry or Accord is cheap and easy, in comparison.
One thing I don't hear much about from the design criticism is repairability/replacement of parts. Tesla has great packaging but seems makes it almost impossible to fix single issues. The Ioniq and EV6 has design inefficiencies but looks like replacing a part is much simpler and easily accessible. Don't know if that was one of the focus of the internal design but just something like that should be mentioned more.
@@wobby1516 - Sandy himself said " Tesla is built like a TANK " , and " model 3 has better handling than BMW ". " the model 3 , takes corners like it's on RAILS " .
Jun S "Impossible to fix single issues"....? In what respect? If you refer to pumps, etc, they still exist, they're still removable/ replaceable (IF the need arises) but they're fixed directly to the central unit, hence, as mentioned, many fewer ancillary parts to secure them, not to mention that direct fixing reduces (in that case) the hose quantity and length, which in itself will reduce points of possible failure. Nice try, but the argument doesn't hold water. To quote the now common phrase (again) "The best part is no part"
13:14 Interesting take. I see a historically failure prone part that will be trivial to replace and readily available. To my mind this is provably superior to a part unique to the assembly that requires a teardown to replace. I won't be spending time fretting over micro optimizations regarding the hose routing.
Yes, I bought a Kia Niro last month. A few years ago I would have never thought of buying a Kia but the reviews were good, one guy had 327,000 miles on his with nothing besides oil changes and a tune-up or 2. Solid well built car, simple design with real controls for the radio and heat systems and it does not look like a hybrid or a prius, styled like a normal car. Uses a 6 speed dual clutch, no cvt, actually built to be driver friendly. This new generation of kia's and Hyundai's reminds me of a older and better nissans or hondas.
re: "a relatively short time" define "short". I ask because Hyundai arrived to America with the Excel in 1986. my sister-in-law bought one, used to ride in all the time. their marketing was getting a vehicle for an MSRP of $4995 (which was low even for that time). those with an awareness of History understand that Hyundai/Kia's "overnight success" (at least here in the States) has actually been 36 years in the making.
@@anthonybha4510 Nothing wrong with 95mpg average. Spending another $12k for a basic EV wouldn't drop the cost per mile enough to ever pay the difference.
What a relief! A great engineering analysis, with insightful details. No soft pillow, double stitching, carnival lighting interior, multiscreen video arcade of icons as in recent videos. The previous few videos total nearly 2 hours of this kind of fluff. Thanks for putting the ENGINEERING back into Munro Live! 😁
@@jackgreenstalk777 Interior decorating of a car is wonderful, but anyone can judge for themselves if they like it or not. What sets Munro apart is the mechanical / electrical engineering of the vehicle. There are hundreds of videos about various individuals' impressions of the appearance, upholstery and lighting of cars.
Great job Corey. Your presentation skills have grown, meaning that the pace of your conversation makes every word understandable and you are explaining the acronyms often. Kevin is tslking in staccato bursts that makes it harder to build a picture of the system under discussion. All in all (or “at the end of the day” as Sandy would say) the presentation was excellent.
14:15 This is so very, very important! A lot of people still don't get just how much and how severely the legacy car manufacturers are lagging behind, and why.
Munro has a tremendously anti-repair philosophy in their preferred engineering approach. Adhesives > threaded fasteners (cannot easily remove and replace a part). Everything integrated into a single component (what's the cost to dig out an replace the Supermanifold vs a standalone pump that's easily accessible under the car).
The first thought that came to mind when I saw that exposed pump and lines [10:50] was "How dangerous"! Plastic lines exposed to road hazards! Then we learn that those lines are the battery coolant lines. If they get damaged the battery overheats and the car is toast. (Hopefully the passengers get out before it is brown toast!) Even if there is supposed to be a protective shield I doubt it is very strong.
@@GntlTch Hard impact resistant plastic covered with an under tray and protected from debris. Unless you jump the car and bottom out the suspension on landing you are not going to damage it. You are just as likely to puncture an oil pan in any ICE car.
Thank you for the analysis. The strongest reason for buying new cars whenever possible is the ever-increasing effort being made to improve occupant safety. The converse is that occupant safety is the strongest reason for not using an electric drive upgraded older car for daily or highway use.
1:00 I really don't like that 'open' plug with all that wiring, somewhere in the engine compartment maybe ok, but open like that at the bottom of the car. isn't that asking for trouble?
@@totalassuage Probably true, normally they say they've removed protection, but even with a skid plate it stays very open due to the moving parts of the suspension being so close, and would you want to drive through a deep puddle with it?
@munrolive those pieces of stampted steel connecting the 2 points below the axles are actually "driveshaft loops" in case of axle failure the shaft will be kept in place.
Im suprised by the battery low voltage connector being quite exposed to elements. Or maybe there is a belly pan that goes over everything that was removed?
I would note that those testing the Korean cousins using OBD2 diagnostic apps while charging have seen some correlation between slow charge start related to the "low temp" reading and some throttling as the "high temp" reaches a limit. Indicates the sensor positioning, and/ or the "plumbing" needs work?
Nice to see that they tried to improve small overlap score for EV. Tesla model S and model 3 had worse scores than a 2015 Subaru WRX in the small overlap crash test. WRX is in the small car category.
Doubting that the coolant pump is individually replaceable on a Tesla and it is definitely a wear part, the Kia individual pump makes more sense from wear and ease of replacement standpoint which should keep ownership costs down.
Why are you "doubting that the Tesla pump is replaceable"? It's a "pump" It's "bolted" to the relevant assembly. In fact, from memory, I think you'll find (if you look) that specific reference has been made regarding the likely reliability of the Tesla pumps *because* they have direct mounting. . Just because you WANT it to be true, doesn't make it so. Don't guess, go back and check.
So I DID check. Watch this. Relevant points 4:40 "compact design, fewer connections". . 5:30 clearly shows separate, REMOVABLE pumps, etc bolted to the assembly. . Also shows that having removed certain connections the whole assembly (!) could be removed by unbolting the "strut brace" and worked on away from the car if required. . th-cam.com/video/y4d2frvhcyY/w-d-xo.html
I really enjoyed the video, thank you. I just found this interview with a few of the Hyundai engineers that developed the E-GMP architecture, pretty interesting discussion. They touch on the following: Integrated Drive Axle, Integrated Cooling System, Electric Motors Windings, 800 Volts Architecture, Chassis Design, Large Cabin and Small Frunk, 20" VS 19" Tires. I have no doubt they benchmarked Tesla, VW and possible Mack-E. Enjoy the engineers discussion: th-cam.com/video/0zM3EdnqRZg/w-d-xo.html
i have dashcam video from my Tesla of a real life SORB test, or shall i say accident from saturday. the test vehicle was a Lincoln SUV and crash rig was a Camry that pulled in front of it in a 55mph zone. very close to being a T-bone into the passenger door, cant say the passenger in the Camry would have survived if the Lincoln driver didn't swerve.
At 16:00 you talk about integration issues causing increased maintenance costs, Should not disassembly/maintenance be weighed against integration/assembly. Would that cooling pump be as easy to maintain if it was integrated into the adjoining module?
I'd be interested to see a Ford E Transit review. Specifically things like range reduction when travelling under load, and how easy is it to swap the battery out?
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom No, but it has a really pissy little battery that is half the capacity of the Mach E so it will need to be replaced pretty quickly 🙂
Great vid again! Comparing the Benz to the Kia you start to understand why the Benz is 2x the price. The KIA is a fabulous EV but its a mass market vehicle. A quick inspection like this shows that the price differential is for much more than a snazzy interior and a three pointed star badge. Some were carping on the plastic carpet cver on the MB battery, now they'll understand. Even a simple thing like that adds weight and price but is essential if you want the lowest cabin sound levels expected of an Benz S class. In the Benz double pained acoustic glass is an option. Added to all the other endless sound mitigation tricks (even inside the motors) it makes the EQS drive like an isolation chamber on wheels. Its almost eerie. It also makes the Burmester stereo sound amazing.
Just watch an episode of Scotty kilmer on Mercedes-Benz cars. There's one where he plugs a scan tool into an 8yo car and it has 47 electrical issues. Endless money pits.
@@aaronroberts1799 I can tell you have never owned one. Ive had 4, one, a C400 had one minor issue in 50k hard miles. All the others ones never needed a trip to the dealership except for scheduled maintenance
@@Wised1000 Note to self: Never argue with an idiot.....Yes you're right, Mercedes are perfect. Not even Toyota can hold a candle to Mercedes reliability record. All hail Mercedes. 😂
Any provisions for wireless charging on these cars (I read that they will be coming at some point)? An induction 'receiver' pad would need to be installed under the battery with all the connections etc. Or is this technology still too far away for these recent models to allow for this?
On that pump at the bottom of the front motor, if the had rotated it 180 degrees, the could have routed the outlet hose much better than is currently the case. I'm a layman, and I can see that myself.
I know you guys didn't do an "under the hood" video for the EV6 but in not doing so completely missed that the EV6 and IONIQ 5 had different cooling system designs. The EV6 uses a single system not a dual like the IONIQ.
I am somewhat concerned that there are no skid plates or other form of protection for the electrical components front and back. on the AWD models. Hopefully, the aftermarket will respond to this lack of protection for these vital components.
@@merza80 - Sandy gets most stuff right. Sandy still believe in Hydrogen, which is unsustainable. he is Wrong about Chinese OEM's . just look at what a joke KANDI is , and Xpeng/NIO , they are NOT even in TOP 5 in CHINA, not even Top 10 in the EU. TESLA, Wuling, BYD, GW all OUTSELL nio/Xpeng in China.
So the battery is covered by tinfoil and will be destroyed if you run over a tricycle or a muffler that falls off a vehicle in front of you or in cold climates a chunk of ice bricking your car. $50,000 U.S. to replace the battery, confirmed by Hyundai (kia is the same). Only know of two cases so far, but I'm definitely glad I saw the under-side of the car.
The Japanese and Koreans understand that things will eventually need to be fixed/serviced. Things like frunks and integration into touchscreens will become nightmares after warranty.
Not sure I understand how a hood covering a storage frunk is less reliable than than a hood covering of any other sort ? Thomas do you have a lot of odd nightmares such as this 😂
Frunks are entirely due to thoughtful arrangement of the underhood components, allowing for a simple bolt-in plastic frunk liner. Takes mere moments and little skill to remove all those plastic components in the rare event something needs repair. Those plastic components also reduce road noise.
Thomas Your position is contradictory. Of course "things" (may) need to be fixed / serviced. To that end, if you have fewer "things", you have less to go wrong, less part inventory (both at the factory and service locations) and less chance of a component ("widget"?) being out of stock. . "Frunks" by their very existence imply that there is more free space, less complexity in that area, meaning (again) less to go wrong! (Think it through!) . Using similar logic.... "Touch screen integration" Well, for example the Kia has (by a very rough count) *2 screens* (plus a hud?) At least 12 buttons/ switches on the steering wheel. 6 to the door side of the dash. 15+ in the infotainment/ climate panel, 10+ in the centre console. ALL of these, be they haptic or "traditional", contained in a module, or not, are joined by wiring / connectors, all with illumination. Just those are 45 points of failure, plus the connectors/ wiring. . Alternatively, 1 screen, which I've seen owners remove for other reasons in 10 minutes or less, with a single loom. . Much reduced faultfinding, fast fix time (IF there's a failure!) 1 part in stock. . (Speaking as a Field Service Technician, TIME is a valuable (expensive!) commodity!) . Just sayin'
Danke Munro live for these videos. I was shopping between EV6 and BMW i4 since they are both $70,000 in my city. I was frankly very surprised and saddened to learn when during the video with the EV6 on ze hoist they said this is an old 90's chassis converted into an BEV albeit it was done well. This made clear the chassis is very cheap including mostly stamped steel but the rest of the vehicle is nearly cutting edge technologie. I'm going with BMW i4 since they don't economize on the chassis like Korean automobil who has cut corners on the backbone of the car.
Rubbish! Have u got one ? Tesla does not have blind spot, head up display, 360 camera, auto android or apple play and you can't use any other navigation with it. These are important safety features which it does not have. Ask every tesla user, they will tell you about the poor quality of the car...especially model 3 /Y. Electrical car is not just about running 2s in 62mph... What about their poor customer service that everyone complains about. You seriously think it does not matter. Go to trust pilot and listen to thousands of customers who actually drive tesla !
Overall the engineering of the EV6 strikes me as great for low cost manufacturing but not optimized design when it comes to strength and longevity for the consumer. I want to see strength in structure, design, safety and as a result minimal maintenance requirements. EV6 does not meet my criteria so far. I would like to see reduction in cost when a vehicle is involved in an accident for all vehicles.
The EV6 features the world's first mass-produced Integrated Drive Axle (IDA). It connects the wheel bearing and the drive shaft into one unit, with which the engine power is transmitted to the wheel. By developing a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub, the number of parts has been reduced and the weight reduced by 3 kg. In addition, the innovative concept prevents defects in the connections between the drive shaft and the wheel bearing. At the same time, the 42 percent increase in axle rigidity has a positive effect on driving behavior and handling. The modern damper technology of the EV6 combines the sporty Kia character with a level of comfort that one hardly expects from such agile vehicles. The new dampers contain the usual components, but have an additional piston to adjust the pressure on the rebound stage and thus its damping force depending on the input frequency. This frequency-selective technology with hydraulic cable stop ensures a sporty, stable ride at lower frequencies and a smooth, comfortable ride at higher frequencies, such as those encountered on bad roads or cobblestones.
It became a big problem because it was shipped without the battery fixing bolt by mistake in Korea. In Korea, it is a monopolistic company, so it handed over the fault to the consumer
Biggest question what have guys at munro designed built and marketed by the millions like major car makers like vw Toyota and others. Second guessing after others made stuff is a really useless gig.
Most of them previously worked for major auto manufacturers. Sandy Munro in particular worked for Ford for decades. And their business is built around helping major auto manufacturers reduce costs while maintaining quality.
@@stephenj4937 quality is not using plastic snaps he always takes about...cheap and cheaper is what he is about. All in one assys.,doing g too many functions is make stuff nonseviceable....
I would be less against getting a BEV if they were as simple as an RC car. Instead they are packed with tons of tech I don't want that just drives up weight and price. The only real option for someone who wants an EV without the BS is to retrofit an ICE classic car with BEV components. Considering the price of a conversion, it's better to just keep drive ICE for a couple decades.
Most of the time I see the point of what you are saying, but you blew it with integrating pumps into the casing. Are you daft? A pump should be a serviceable part because it is a wear item - why would you have to replace the entire motor casing/item to replace the pump. The H/K way of doing this makes it so easy to replace the pump. If you they did it your way, a 30 minute job balloons to several hours and is 10 times less expensive to replace than your way. You don't have a point here. It makes no sense to reduce production costs only to balloon replacement costs downstream for either the consumer or for warranty work.
I think the point was to have the pump mounted directly onto the casing, not inside it (as opposed to mounting it on a bracket on another bracket mounted on the casing). Similar repairability without a kg or so of added mounting hardware.
Love that the coolant pump and temp sensor are in the open and easily servicable
Just open like that? No protector plate? I'm afraid it'll get hit when driving on a gravel road.
@@drive-channel1834pretty sure they removed the aero covers for the video. But the serviceability is great and probably saves Kia money on their long ass warranty.
Regarding that pump, I understand the desire for integration for cost & weight reduction. But as a consumer, repairing/replacing that pump will be insanely easier where it is. Curious about your thoughts re balancing cost & manufacturability vs serviceability
It was good to see them at least mention serviceability towards the end. Sandy always seems to completely ignore repair considerations in his analysis.
I drove 3 cars 150k+ miles. Never had to replace any pumps. Serviceability needs to be weighed in against reliability. If they are reliable, integrate it all day long. Doesn’t matter.
@@Enemji these electric pumps could definitely fail before 100,000 miles so it is worth considering, though it’s not something a manufacturer would usually take much time to think about as it’s usually outside of warranty period.
I can identify with that. I had a Nissan LEAF with three coolant pumps. One was in the PTC cabin heat loop and the other two pumps were in series in the EDM, inverter, charger loop. Nissan put the charging inverter all the way in back and ran coolant lines all the way back. One of the series connected pumps on my car failed with an ODB code “PWM output stuck high.” Even from a heavily discounted seller, the replacement pump cost about $400. The Nissan shop manual has an insanely complex procedure for completely draining the loop before changing the pump and followed by repeated burping of air after refilling. Lucky for me, the bad pump was on the passenger side inner fender. It was easy to clamp the rubber line on either side of the pump, pour the old pump’s coolant into the new pump, and reattach the hoses. My way took about half an hour. The shop manual way was at least a few hour job. If those had been nylon lines, the clamp-off method would not have been easy/possible. That electric pump only lasted 32K miles. There was a lot of stuff that broke at low miles on the LEAF. I am glad I bought the LEAF used and I was happy to bid the LEAF farewell too after a lot of nickel and dime repairs.
@@Enemji Many BMWs since ~2007 have had electric water pumps that tend to fail around 80-120k. It was a huge pain to replace because they tucked it away to minimize hose length (and I think to place it in the position of the belt driven one it replaced). I would happily take the extra weight and efficiency loss for reparability.
The EV6 features the world's first mass-produced Integrated Drive Axle (IDA). It connects the wheel bearing and the drive shaft into one unit, with which the engine power is transmitted to the wheel. By developing a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub, the number of parts has been reduced and the weight reduced by 3 kg. In addition, the innovative concept prevents defects in the connections between the drive shaft and the wheel bearing. At the same time, the 42 percent increase in axle rigidity has a positive effect on driving behavior and handling.
The modern damper technology of the EV6 combines the sporty Kia character with a level of comfort that one hardly expects from such agile vehicles. The new dampers contain the usual components, but have an additional piston to adjust the pressure on the rebound stage and thus its damping force depending on the input frequency. This frequency-selective technology with hydraulic cable stop ensures a sporty, stable ride at lower frequencies and a smooth, comfortable ride at higher frequencies, such as those encountered on bad roads or cobblestones.
One big thing also, it has 800V battery.
@Lurking Grue using a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub, the number of parts has been reduced and the weight reduced by 3 kg.
Means fewer parts = lower costs.
A wheel bearing for Honda or Acura is available for 30 or 40 dollars.
The EV6 has the integrated drive axle, so repairs down the line will be much more expensive.
@@DerekDavis213 The development of a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub reduced the number of parts and reduced the weight by 3 kg. In addition, the new concept "prevents defects in the connections between drive shaft and wheel bearing". At the same time, the 42 percent increase in axle stiffness has a positive effect on handling and handling.
@@haraldschon252 But I say again: bearings will eventually fail. How much to replace the bearing if it is now part of the axle assembly?
Replacing a bearing on Camry or Accord is cheap and easy, in comparison.
One thing I don't hear much about from the design criticism is repairability/replacement of parts. Tesla has great packaging but seems makes it almost impossible to fix single issues. The Ioniq and EV6 has design inefficiencies but looks like replacing a part is much simpler and easily accessible. Don't know if that was one of the focus of the internal design but just something like that should be mentioned more.
FALSE, the best part, is no part.
the Best service is, no Servicing needed for 300k.
TESLA.
@@markplott4820 that’s if it doesn’t fall apart.
@@wobby1516 - Sandy himself said " Tesla is built like a TANK " , and " model 3 has better handling than BMW ".
" the model 3 , takes corners like it's on RAILS " .
@@wobby1516
Don't encourage the troll.
Jun S
"Impossible to fix single issues"....?
In what respect?
If you refer to pumps, etc, they still exist, they're still removable/ replaceable (IF the need arises) but they're fixed directly to the central unit, hence, as mentioned, many fewer ancillary parts to secure them, not to mention that direct fixing reduces (in that case) the hose quantity and length, which in itself will reduce points of possible failure.
Nice try, but the argument doesn't hold water.
To quote the now common phrase (again)
"The best part is no part"
13:14 Interesting take. I see a historically failure prone part that will be trivial to replace and readily available. To my mind this is provably superior to a part unique to the assembly that requires a teardown to replace. I won't be spending time fretting over micro optimizations regarding the hose routing.
Nice job as always. Aluminum castings also have parting lines.
Interesting how far Hyundai/Kia have come in a relatively short time
Yes, I bought a Kia Niro last month. A few years ago I would have never thought of buying a Kia but the reviews were good, one guy had 327,000 miles on his with nothing besides oil changes and a tune-up or 2. Solid well built car, simple design with real controls for the radio and heat systems and it does not look like a hybrid or a prius, styled like a normal car. Uses a 6 speed dual clutch, no cvt, actually built to be driver friendly. This new generation of kia's and Hyundai's reminds me of a older and better nissans or hondas.
re: "a relatively short time" define "short". I ask because Hyundai arrived to America with the Excel in 1986. my sister-in-law bought one, used to ride in all the time. their marketing was getting a vehicle for an MSRP of $4995 (which was low even for that time). those with an awareness of History understand that Hyundai/Kia's "overnight success" (at least here in the States) has actually been 36 years in the making.
Imagine if they built only EVs from the beginning!!!
Avoid EVs from ice companies...like buying asthma medication from Philip Morris!
@@SkaBob haha. You actually bought a gasoline car!?!? What a clown!
@@anthonybha4510 Nothing wrong with 95mpg average. Spending another $12k for a basic EV wouldn't drop the cost per mile enough to ever pay the difference.
What a relief! A great engineering analysis, with insightful details. No soft pillow, double stitching, carnival lighting interior, multiscreen video arcade of icons as in recent videos. The previous few videos total nearly 2 hours of this kind of fluff. Thanks for putting the ENGINEERING back into Munro Live! 😁
sadly that stuff people touch, see or interact with are also engineering. just not structural engineering
@@jackgreenstalk777 Interior decorating of a car is wonderful, but anyone can judge for themselves if they like it or not. What sets Munro apart is the mechanical / electrical engineering of the vehicle. There are hundreds of videos about various individuals' impressions of the appearance, upholstery and lighting of cars.
Great summary from two professionals. Appreciate the repairability issues.
Thumbs up always to you guys, thanks for the intel!
Great job Corey. Your presentation skills have grown, meaning that the pace of your conversation makes every word understandable and you are explaining the acronyms often. Kevin is tslking in staccato bursts that makes it harder to build a picture of the system under discussion.
All in all (or “at the end of the day” as Sandy would say) the presentation was excellent.
I appreciate that!
Yes, Kevin slow down.
In person, the EV6 has some good style lines! Overall, it can get busy, particularly from that rear 3/4 view!
Kudos Cory… explaining acronyms 🙏
14:15 This is so very, very important! A lot of people still don't get just how much and how severely the legacy car manufacturers are lagging behind, and why.
Wow great video!! I have 2022 kia ev6 gt line. Ty for sharing your engineering expertise. i never would have realized all the important small details.
This is why I'm a subscriber.
Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you Cory and Kevin - excellent engineering analysis!
Munro has a tremendously anti-repair philosophy in their preferred engineering approach. Adhesives > threaded fasteners (cannot easily remove and replace a part). Everything integrated into a single component (what's the cost to dig out an replace the Supermanifold vs a standalone pump that's easily accessible under the car).
The first thought that came to mind when I saw that exposed pump and lines [10:50] was "How dangerous"! Plastic lines exposed to road hazards! Then we learn that those lines are the battery coolant lines. If they get damaged the battery overheats and the car is toast. (Hopefully the passengers get out before it is brown toast!) Even if there is supposed to be a protective shield I doubt it is very strong.
@@GntlTch Hard impact resistant plastic covered with an under tray and protected from debris. Unless you jump the car and bottom out the suspension on landing you are not going to damage it. You are just as likely to puncture an oil pan in any ICE car.
Thank you for the analysis.
The strongest reason for buying new cars whenever possible is the ever-increasing effort being made to improve occupant safety.
The converse is that occupant safety is the strongest reason for not using an electric drive upgraded older car for daily or highway use.
1:00 I really don't like that 'open' plug with all that wiring, somewhere in the engine compartment maybe ok, but open like that at the bottom of the car. isn't that asking for trouble?
They usually remove shielding so as to have something to show
@@totalassuage
You’d think he’d realise that, oh well !
@@totalassuage
But still relatively exposed (including to outside temperature, which is an issue on these cars)
@@totalassuage Probably true, normally they say they've removed protection, but even with a skid plate it stays very open due to the moving parts of the suspension being so close, and would you want to drive through a deep puddle with it?
Thank you!
The pump is in the perfect place for service and repair.easy access.
@munrolive those pieces of stampted steel connecting the 2 points below the axles are actually "driveshaft loops" in case of axle failure the shaft will be kept in place.
Im suprised by the battery low voltage connector being quite exposed to elements. Or maybe there is a belly pan that goes over everything that was removed?
They removed front and rear aero covers before video.
I would note that those testing the Korean cousins using OBD2 diagnostic apps while charging have seen some correlation between slow charge start related to the "low temp" reading and some throttling as the "high temp" reaches a limit.
Indicates the sensor positioning, and/ or the "plumbing" needs work?
Nice to see that they tried to improve small overlap score for EV. Tesla model S and model 3 had worse scores than a 2015 Subaru WRX in the small overlap crash test. WRX is in the small car category.
Doubting that the coolant pump is individually replaceable on a Tesla and it is definitely a wear part, the Kia individual pump makes more sense from wear and ease of replacement standpoint which should keep ownership costs down.
Some parts are designed to fail, thankfully they make them easy to replace...
Other parts are built to last
Why are you "doubting that the Tesla pump is replaceable"?
It's a "pump"
It's "bolted" to the relevant assembly.
In fact, from memory, I think you'll find (if you look) that specific reference has been made regarding the likely reliability of the Tesla pumps *because* they have direct mounting.
.
Just because you WANT it to be true, doesn't make it so.
Don't guess, go back and check.
So I DID check.
Watch this.
Relevant points 4:40 "compact design, fewer connections".
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5:30 clearly shows separate, REMOVABLE pumps, etc bolted to the assembly.
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Also shows that having removed certain connections the whole assembly (!) could be removed by unbolting the "strut brace" and worked on away from the car if required.
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th-cam.com/video/y4d2frvhcyY/w-d-xo.html
Would love to see the differences implemented for the EV6 GT
Having a separate pump is easy accessibility and Maintainance if it needs to be replaced.
Gee, great info without rudeness; what a concept.
Partial wheel arch liners are probably just a Hyundai/Kia thing. The Getz was the same and that came out in 2001.
Do you have a video of the front splash guard on a 2023 Kia ev6 wind awd
casting, moldings. and stamp's! MSC software does all of this.. looks lot's lighter 2 me.. great inspection..
Love the pump design.
Great video as always!
Glad you enjoyed!
I really enjoyed the video, thank you. I just found this interview with a few of the Hyundai engineers that developed the E-GMP architecture, pretty interesting discussion. They touch on the following: Integrated Drive Axle, Integrated Cooling System, Electric Motors Windings, 800 Volts Architecture, Chassis Design, Large Cabin and Small Frunk, 20" VS 19" Tires.
I have no doubt they benchmarked Tesla, VW and possible Mack-E. Enjoy the engineers discussion: th-cam.com/video/0zM3EdnqRZg/w-d-xo.html
would be interesting to see reviews of Volvo XC40 and C40 EV's, especially safety and construction now that they are looking to N.A. assembly.
Great job guys love all you videos - Have you determined if the Kia uses a heat piiump to help condition the battery? Thanks
Was there a bottom plate/guard that was taken off to see all this?
Yes. Very confused. Why wasn’t there a plate for aero and protection??!? Need to look under the one at a dealer.
i have dashcam video from my Tesla of a real life SORB test, or shall i say accident from saturday. the test vehicle was a Lincoln SUV and crash rig was a Camry that pulled in front of it in a 55mph zone. very close to being a T-bone into the passenger door, cant say the passenger in the Camry would have survived if the Lincoln driver didn't swerve.
At 16:00 you talk about integration issues causing increased maintenance costs, Should not disassembly/maintenance be weighed against integration/assembly. Would that cooling pump be as easy to maintain if it was integrated into the adjoining module?
Is there a speed change shift lever or just a speed mode switch?
Keep the 'soap box speeches' coming !
Great insights as always 👍 👏
3rd, will be interesting for sure
is there any fear for rust on the ev6 with all the electronic and being dependable on them vs other vehicles that is more mechanical
all that contacts in the slush in winter, will it work in the long run...
4mins, the bracket looks substantial? The EV6 can tow 800kg, would that be a tow bracket mounting point?
That’s what I thought. I was like they are so smart they can’t think of simple things lol.
Those holes looks like vents in the event of fire?
I'd be interested to see a Ford E Transit review. Specifically things like range reduction when travelling under load, and how easy is it to swap the battery out?
The Ford E-transit is going with battery swapping?
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom No, but it has a really pissy little battery that is half the capacity of the Mach E so it will need to be replaced pretty quickly 🙂
🤗THANKS TO CORY AND KEVIN …for keeping ZACH on his toes 😁
We have NO PROBLEM with CORY ON HIS SOAPBOX 👍🤗😍😍😍
Shhhh!
Does your team take photographs of the undercarriage, exterior, and interior of all the test cars that come in for future reference purposes?
Probably about a thousand! :)
They summed it up well. It's still a cheap 90's chassis massaged masterfully into an EV allowing them to spend more on the fancy interior bits.
United States of America 🇺🇸 Sponsored!
Great vid again! Comparing the Benz to the Kia you start to understand why the Benz is 2x the price. The KIA is a fabulous EV but its a mass market vehicle. A quick inspection like this shows that the price differential is for much more than a snazzy interior and a three pointed star badge. Some were carping on the plastic carpet cver on the MB battery, now they'll understand. Even a simple thing like that adds weight and price but is essential if you want the lowest cabin sound levels expected of an Benz S class. In the Benz double pained acoustic glass is an option. Added to all the other endless sound mitigation tricks (even inside the motors) it makes the EQS drive like an isolation chamber on wheels. Its almost eerie. It also makes the Burmester stereo sound amazing.
Remember the leak they found at the end of the Mercedes inspection??
🤔
Just watch an episode of Scotty kilmer on Mercedes-Benz cars. There's one where he plugs a scan tool into an 8yo car and it has 47 electrical issues. Endless money pits.
@@aaronroberts1799 I can tell you have never owned one. Ive had 4, one, a C400 had one minor issue in 50k hard miles. All the others ones never needed a trip to the dealership except for scheduled maintenance
@@rogerstarkey5390 was it actively dripping? No For all we know it dripped a few drops at one time and that was it
@@Wised1000 Note to self: Never argue with an idiot.....Yes you're right, Mercedes are perfect. Not even Toyota can hold a candle to Mercedes reliability record. All hail Mercedes. 😂
Soapbox: don't apologize. That's why we listen to y'all.
Thanks! Thanks for adding the thanks button.
We appreciate your dedication as a Munro Live fan!! Thanks Joshua!!
15:30 Never be sorry for exposition like that! That is what gives context when you and Sandy talk about why excess bolts, etc, are a bad thing.
Any provisions for wireless charging on these cars (I read that they will be coming at some point)? An induction 'receiver' pad would need to be installed under the battery with all the connections etc. Or is this technology still too far away for these recent models to allow for this?
I think the massive amount of current required to charge an EV would make it impractical from an efficiency standpoint.
The reason Kia & Hyundai use so much steel is because Hyundai Corp is a massive conglomerate with a steel division they utilize.
its also a great material
Does osha inspect your facility?
On that pump at the bottom of the front motor, if the had rotated it 180 degrees, the could have routed the outlet hose much better than is currently the case. I'm a layman, and I can see that myself.
The inlet and outlet would then be reversed and you would have fluid flowing the wrong way
I know you guys didn't do an "under the hood" video for the EV6 but in not doing so completely missed that the EV6 and IONIQ 5 had different cooling system designs. The EV6 uses a single system not a dual like the IONIQ.
Learn so much. Thx so much.
Nice Video !!!!!!
Thanks!
Small Mercedes coolant leak, after purchase service charging income? ;-)
I want to hear Sandy on this car, please!
0:53 - Those wires on show scream problem to me, salt on the roads is going to corrode those quickly after a couple of years!
I am somewhat concerned that there are no skid plates or other form of protection for the electrical components front and back. on the AWD models. Hopefully, the aftermarket will respond to this lack of protection for these vital components.
Best place to Jack up an EV 6 GT2
Cory you know that’s not the Plaid 😃
Cryptic much?
Amazing as usual.
Gentlemen please give me your opinion on the Imperium (Skywell).
ha ha ha ha, cheap Chinese car.....lol.
@@markplott4820 well... Sandy himself disagrees with that, so ...
@@merza80 - Sandy gets most stuff right. Sandy still believe in Hydrogen, which is unsustainable.
he is Wrong about Chinese OEM's .
just look at what a joke KANDI is , and Xpeng/NIO , they are NOT even in TOP 5 in CHINA, not even Top 10 in the EU.
TESLA, Wuling, BYD, GW all OUTSELL nio/Xpeng in China.
@@markplott4820
Grow up.
@@rogerstarkey5390 - try growing a 🥒 dickless.
So the battery is covered by tinfoil and will be destroyed if you run over a tricycle or a muffler that falls off a vehicle in front of you or in cold climates a chunk of ice bricking your car. $50,000 U.S. to replace the battery, confirmed by Hyundai (kia is the same). Only know of two cases so far, but I'm definitely glad I saw the under-side of the car.
Nice analysis, but why didn’t you have an apprentice clean the undercarriage? Dirt stains are distracting.
Why are they talking about EDM music?
Loved it
And making everything integrated makes repairs prohibitory expensive. My two cents. Ask owners of vehicles what is their opinions.
The Japanese and Koreans understand that things will eventually need to be fixed/serviced. Things like frunks and integration into touchscreens will become nightmares after warranty.
And pumps. When you put everything into one part the entire thing needs replacing at significantly higher cost and downtime.
@@elmojito yeah!
Not sure I understand how a hood covering a storage frunk is less reliable than than a hood covering of any other sort ?
Thomas do you have a lot of odd nightmares such as this 😂
Frunks are entirely due to thoughtful arrangement of the underhood components, allowing for a simple bolt-in plastic frunk liner. Takes mere moments and little skill to remove all those plastic components in the rare event something needs repair. Those plastic components also reduce road noise.
Thomas
Your position is contradictory.
Of course "things" (may) need to be fixed / serviced.
To that end, if you have fewer "things", you have less to go wrong, less part inventory (both at the factory and service locations) and less chance of a component ("widget"?) being out of stock.
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"Frunks" by their very existence imply that there is more free space, less complexity in that area, meaning (again) less to go wrong!
(Think it through!)
.
Using similar logic....
"Touch screen integration"
Well, for example the Kia has (by a very rough count)
*2 screens* (plus a hud?)
At least 12 buttons/ switches on the steering wheel.
6 to the door side of the dash.
15+ in the infotainment/ climate panel,
10+ in the centre console.
ALL of these, be they haptic or "traditional", contained in a module, or not, are joined by wiring / connectors, all with illumination.
Just those are 45 points of failure, plus the connectors/ wiring.
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Alternatively, 1 screen, which I've seen owners remove for other reasons in 10 minutes or less, with a single loom.
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Much reduced faultfinding, fast fix time (IF there's a failure!) 1 part in stock.
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(Speaking as a Field Service Technician, TIME is a valuable (expensive!) commodity!)
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Just sayin'
Is it mount/rats proof? It would suck if rats get into it and start chewing the wires. eeek
Thanks for showing us! So I don;t have to buy a hoist.
also the Genesis GV60 also uses the GIMP platform, by Hyundai.
Danke Munro live for these videos. I was shopping between EV6 and BMW i4 since they are both $70,000 in my city. I was frankly very surprised and saddened to learn when during the video with the EV6 on ze hoist they said this is an old 90's chassis converted into an BEV albeit it was done well. This made clear the chassis is very cheap including mostly stamped steel but the rest of the vehicle is nearly cutting edge technologie. I'm going with BMW i4 since they don't economize on the chassis like Korean automobil who has cut corners on the backbone of the car.
19:00 Very diplomatic way to say "it's BUTT UGLY" lol
I love that Tesla is STILL the gold standard....where's the competition!?!?
Rubbish! Have u got one ? Tesla does not have blind spot, head up display, 360 camera, auto android or apple play and you can't use any other navigation with it. These are important safety features which it does not have. Ask every tesla user, they will tell you about the poor quality of the car...especially model 3 /Y. Electrical car is not just about running 2s in 62mph... What about their poor customer service that everyone complains about. You seriously think it does not matter. Go to trust pilot and listen to thousands of customers who actually drive tesla !
👍👍
Soap box me baby. Get my brain clean.
Overall the engineering of the EV6 strikes me as great for low cost manufacturing but not optimized design when it comes to strength and longevity for the consumer. I want to see strength in structure, design, safety and as a result minimal maintenance requirements. EV6 does not meet my criteria so far. I would like to see reduction in cost when a vehicle is involved in an accident for all vehicles.
The EV6 features the world's first mass-produced Integrated Drive Axle (IDA). It connects the wheel bearing and the drive shaft into one unit, with which the engine power is transmitted to the wheel. By developing a particularly compact joint (86.7 mm) and an integrated wheel hub, the number of parts has been reduced and the weight reduced by 3 kg. In addition, the innovative concept prevents defects in the connections between the drive shaft and the wheel bearing. At the same time, the 42 percent increase in axle rigidity has a positive effect on driving behavior and handling.
The modern damper technology of the EV6 combines the sporty Kia character with a level of comfort that one hardly expects from such agile vehicles. The new dampers contain the usual components, but have an additional piston to adjust the pressure on the rebound stage and thus its damping force depending on the input frequency. This frequency-selective technology with hydraulic cable stop ensures a sporty, stable ride at lower frequencies and a smooth, comfortable ride at higher frequencies, such as those encountered on bad roads or cobblestones.
@Lurking Grue As I said, the innovative concept prevents defects in the connections between the drive shaft and the wheel bearing.
@Lurking Grue The technology of the IDA comes from the Hyundai i20 WRC, the Rally World Champion!
Agree, he clearly summed it up by saying it's a cheap 90's chassis.
1:20 최상걸
ESpecially.
the TESLA model 3 is built like a TANK compared to the IQ5 & EV6.
KIA/Hyundai handles like a Taxicab.
That’s total nonsense, would that you new what your talking about what more tanks don’t corner that well.
Plott.
You're embarrassing.
The wiring is exposed. 😕
Serviceability...all in one integrated parts is not good design
It became a big problem because it was shipped without the battery fixing bolt by mistake in Korea.
In Korea, it is a monopolistic company, so it handed over the fault to the consumer
First! 💪🏼
Second
Maybe it's just me but from all Munro Live hosts Kevin Harty is the most difficult one to understand when he explains things... : /
On the other hand, his main job at Munro isn't to talk in front of a camera to the layperson.
Errr, he dosen't even talk much before the 9 minute mark.
@@scott8919 Yes, but this applies to other hosts as well but their way of presenting is more coherent.
@@PaulHoke I am referring to all episodes where he was one of the hosts.
It's just you......
Munro wants you on their team! But they want you to pay them for the privilege! Pathetic!
Kringe you say? 50 seconds in and I'm like "WT@?!?! That connector is completely exposed!" Imagine this going through 1 Montreal winter
ha ha ha ha, they just called the EV6 "basic" ...that about sums up KIA/Hyundai....they are BASIC.
There’s nothing basic about a well made car with an industry leading seven year warranty
@@wobby1516 - because, TESLA don't need repair in the FIRST place.
1+ million miles Drivetrain.
@@markplott4820 Tesla, and any car for that matter doesn't need repairs. As long as you use them only as an expensive decor and not drive them.
@@johnmcgill3603 - Tesla can Drive 300k without Maintanance. only replace Consumables.
@@markplott4820 As with most decent EVs.
Biggest question what have guys at munro designed built and marketed by the millions like major car makers like vw Toyota and others. Second guessing after others made stuff is a really useless gig.
Most of them previously worked for major auto manufacturers. Sandy Munro in particular worked for Ford for decades. And their business is built around helping major auto manufacturers reduce costs while maintaining quality.
@@stephenj4937 quality is not using plastic snaps he always takes about...cheap and cheaper is what he is about. All in one assys.,doing g too many functions is make stuff nonseviceable....
I would be less against getting a BEV if they were as simple as an RC car. Instead they are packed with tons of tech I don't want that just drives up weight and price. The only real option for someone who wants an EV without the BS is to retrofit an ICE classic car with BEV components. Considering the price of a conversion, it's better to just keep drive ICE for a couple decades.
I like the Hyundai GIMP platform, because it's better than previous generation , e- NIRO & KONA EV.
but the GIMP platform is too heavy & outdated.
Most of the time I see the point of what you are saying, but you blew it with integrating pumps into the casing. Are you daft? A pump should be a serviceable part because it is a wear item - why would you have to replace the entire motor casing/item to replace the pump. The H/K way of doing this makes it so easy to replace the pump. If you they did it your way, a 30 minute job balloons to several hours and is 10 times less expensive to replace than your way. You don't have a point here. It makes no sense to reduce production costs only to balloon replacement costs downstream for either the consumer or for warranty work.
I think the point was to have the pump mounted directly onto the casing, not inside it (as opposed to mounting it on a bracket on another bracket mounted on the casing). Similar repairability without a kg or so of added mounting hardware.
@@jaccurtis5789
Correct.
I do wish people would listen.