Fire Alarm Installation UK - Scout Hut Episode 9
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Fire Alarm Installation UK - Scout Hut Episode 9
Join me as I replace a fire alarm system in this scout hut!
👀 This is the final part in the Scout Hut series. You can watch the other videos here:
Watch Episode 1 Here: • Cleaning Up Someone El...
Watch Episode 2 Here: • Consumer Unit Installa...
Watch Episode 3 Here: • Fault Finding Lighting...
Watch Episode 4 Here: • Installing LED Securit...
Watch Episode 5 Here: • Nightmare Floor Socket...
Watch Episode 6 Here: • Cable Tray Installatio...
Watch Episode 7 Here: • Fire Alarm System Faul...
Watch Episode 8 Here: • Testing A New Consumer...
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Brilliant series, you deserve a holiday after that epic amount of fault finding and work - hope the scouts appreciate how much safer everything is now!
This Scout hut is solely responsible for Jordan being able to buy his new Model 3 😂😂
Did he ever say he was buying one? Could be lease hire.
Supersparks no doubt some 0% BIK goodness
Nice job ..don't forget the log books for the fire alarm and emergency lights for the client to fill in when he carry out the testing .👍
The job that’s just keeps giving 😂 everyday is a school day Jordan as a spark love it 😊
Totally!
love watching the videos, very precise clear detail on how things should be done and having just completed my level 3 electrical installation course, by watching all you guys doing installations gives me the appetite to pursue a career in domestic installations although i'm in my 50's age doesn't bother me.
When you’re trying to identify cables you should try using a tone generator. I use the Tempo PTS 200 and it comes in really handy for tracing circuits and sorting out big bunches of cables if they’re not labelled.
Definitely, the things are a godsend
i got one too very handy
i need to get one of these. people need to label wires !
Just a tip for fire alarms, make sure you tape the fp that is coming into the panel. Just some reg that is constantly drilled into us fire alarm boys heads. Good work, first sparky I’ve seen that hasn’t actually done a shit job that someone will have to go back to correct
Thanks 😊
Hi Jordan, I really enjoy your video's. I like the way you leave your mistakes unedited, no one is perfect, mistakes come easy when your tired. Your professional standards are high. Keep your videos coming look forward to them. The only criticism is the sound is too soft and muffled sometimes because you are not facing the mike, us old cretins can't hear the full sound spectrum. Good work thanks.
Thanks a lot
I am a 13 year old kid that loves these types of thing i cant tell you how happy i am to have met your channel it is so fasinating
Excellent series of 9 videos covering a massive job. Well done ......enjoyed ever single one....nice workmanship!!😀
Fair play for doing this video, I would have got too frustrated with the job to bother filming but it’s great to see how you approach each hurdle
Bit late to the party but a tip with conventional/two wire fire systems, make sure you note in the panel or on the zone chart where the end of lines are, trust me at 3AM it is greatly appreciated! Thankfully i traded my cutters for a calculator so not an issue for me anymore :) I think you picked up most of the problems i spotted on the 1st video, I believe you are also correct that it should be FP back to the distribution board, i did find in the past that BAFE inspectors tended to have slightly different interpretations of the exact point at which the supply feed needs to be FP, but I have been out of the industry for quite a while so they have probably further clarified the requirements now
Thanks!
Light sensors coming on prematurely is due to Microwave can detect through walls.
Just a heads up you should be using porcelain connector blocks for fire alarm systems not plastic 👍
Scouts will be having a lot of jumble sales to pay for all that time!
I don't know why but I've found this series fascinating .
The MCP next to the panel looks like it was fitted so that you keep it in the same zone as the rest of the devices in the zone. Cable from zone 1, down to MCP back to the outgoing cable (jointed) of zone 1..... Those Apollo bases that were initially installed will work with that CTec panel......For reference those panels have a 1 man walk test function... Saves running around silencing
The existing apollo detectors wouldnt have worked as they were standard conventional, the new Ctec panel was the 2 wire alarmsense which has conventional sounder outputs, but the zones are only compatible with alarmsense detectors.
Hey Jordan, that job seems like the gift that just keeps on giving.Good job👍
You got that right!
Brilliant series Jordan. Really enjoyed this. Can't wait for the next series.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Classic, the wholesaler supplied some series 65 detectors, together with alarmsense detectors. I find this issue so regularly when tech supporting fire engineers, who are servicing systems. Electricians often don’t have smoke to fully test system when installing & don’t realise the system they have installed does not work. Fire alarms should be supplied & I installed by fully trained individuals.
I've never seen the construction of a fire alarm system so this was really interesting. but I did just want to get some nice fine filler on the gap under the panel as the caulk didn't seem to leave a nice finish!
I cannot believe that someone who "Installed" this fire alarm in the sound mind and concious left it in that state! Just imagine if a fire did happen and all the kids could of died!!!! Beyond gross neglience!!!! The "installer" should be reported and all of their work audited!!!! I think all fire alarm installers no matter which country your from should have a regulatory body like Gas Safe Register where they must register and be constantly monitored and aduited!
I agree but i also think there should be an Electrical Register (like Gas Safe). NOT ran by the NIC or the likes.
i'm from the u.s. but work in the industry. if i signed off and certified that system, it's my ass on the line. not sure how it is in the u.k., probably more strict. obviously they could go after my employer, but i'm personally responsible as well. also, it's a felony what that "installer" did
@@feelingtardy correct me if im wrong but in the US after a normal house rewire you get an Inspector to look at the jobs right? how often is that? in Uk we almost never get them if its one house , only if its a big job 3+ houses they come and they only look at each house/flat 5 mins. the amount of illegal work in uk is stupid and the worse thing is that if the installation has been made for a couple years they dont really procecute them
There must have been a fire alarm certificate issued for the building to be put into use?
But really, if that building required a fire alarm, they should not have been using it , so had something happened the scouts would have been in hot water as well as the original installer.
With the toilets, I have found through personal experience that motion activated light switches are inconvenient, as when you are seated and about your business, you tend to be out of the range of detection and or moving very little. A sound activated switch would be much better as you can clap your hands to switch the lights back on. Should you be plunged into darkness whilst your trousers are around your ankles, and you have a potentially messy job to take care of in the dark.
You could have fitted sounder bases on the zones if you used an alarm sense panel and done away with the sounder circuit
This is an alarmsense panel
Do the integrated sounder bases on the smoke detectors require 4 core cable or do they just work on the 2 core cable straight from the zone wiring panel?
What certification will you issue on completion of these works? I would be check to see if your insurance covers you to carry out fire alarm system works as it’s not something you would think of but also very often a higher level of cover.
Yes I issued a Fire Alarm Certificate
I would definitely surface mount for a swift and clean installation. Seal all gaps with fire rated sealant. Jobs a goodun 👍
Nice job on that floor outlet, for a floor outlet you would think that it would have been designed to sit in the floor more than just on it. makes me wonder if that was just a hinged flap outlet and not actually a floor outlet. Either way it looks nice and it looks flush with the floor.
Interesting video, atleast it's all working know.! You would of thought the owner would have asked for the system to be monitored through to an alarm receiving centre as it's a building? I had a fire alarm fault years ago in a nightclub, there was basically water pouring through the ceiling into a smoke head. The ceiling collapsed hours later from the weight of the water etc. I always get the good jobs!!!
Really nice video I think the first panel was fitted by a cow boy I am north east uk based and looking at getting into the industry with fire alarms
I hope you renewed the mains cable in fp 200 whilst you had the fire alarm panel out.
Not a chance it wasn't possible i'm afraid
I laugh at using fire proof cable. Why? Cause the cable to the switch board won't be fire proof so negates the effectiveness of it.
True
Carl Kokay well on commercial sites we always run a fire tuff (fp 200) from the section board to a fire alarm isolation switch then to the fire alarm panel normally below in fp as well. Then the cable is fire rated from basically point of entry to building to the panel.
@@cjkokay true its a waste of requirements, paper and time if you ask me , because your ring main/lighting circut cable isn't fp, its like that the glass on MCPs have to be saftey glass as pepole have cut themselves on the glass, i've had training on how to operate a call point what takes non saftey glass, i've even got a mcp what takes real glass and you can still get the glass for it and the hammer, but chances are of you breaking the glass with your elbow is quite high as pepole nick the hammers.
I have watched all the videos on this job, and it looks like it's had some kind of refurb done on it maybe a grant, and if that was the case I wouldn't be surprised if the electrical work was done by the builder as well, it just has all the signs of jobs I have come across where a builder has had a go and been out of their depth.
Because none of the stuff in that place is rocket science its everyday stuff to an electrician.
Great Video as always Jordan...your content is always interesting to watch.
Learnt something here to about the end of line capacitors and resistors...never thought about why they had to be different. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
nice video, however with closed doors, personally i would have added extra wires and used the zones to split the "area" to save time in activation... or better still fitted an addressable... i realise multiple ways to do things... just the way i would have done it....... open comment... is there enough DB for that area... am sure there is far to few detection devices in that hut too.
Thanks for your input
I tend to go addressable too. If there's only a couple of zones and the wiring integrity is good it's just a case of linking the ends. You can often use the sounder circuits as your cross path as the sounder circuits will tend to follow the zone circuits.
A plastic fire alarm installed by an electrician-
Mains in PVC, no zone chart, back boxes absent on the detection, batteries appear undated.
There is a current reading taken my applying power to the controls, the the battery is then connected in series with probes on multi meter / clamp meter thing
This is reading will is the current taken to charge the just of CEF's shelf batteries, you need to be measuring the quiescent current & current in alarm
There is a 4mm earth stud in the control panel, it's designed for a ring crimped onto the CPC, personally I'd remove it & splash out £1.50 on brass earth block
Jesus, what a cowboy install that was before you got there.....
Yep 🤦♂️
🫣🤠🤠
... and judging by the state of the other bodge jobs that you uncovered previously, I hope you checked that those FP cables weren't live!!! I'd imagine one labelled 'call point' may have actually been terminated into an FCU somewhere else in the building!!!!!
Just noticed is there a outside sounder strobe fitted its needed to alart fire brigade to the building and to were the fire panel is located ,good job
No there isn't
Yup!.....the caretaker was nuts😂
HAHA
Shouldve left the sounders and just fitted a new one on its own circuit above the board
Beat me to it
I wouldn't have fitted alarm sense but just added the additional sounder above the panel
I just added the sounder beacon base in the disabled WC instead of adding a separate sounder circuit in the end.
@@artisanelectrics can use hear that sounder from the kitchen or from the toilet ???? I don't think so. That's why he and I said in my other review to put a sounder by the panel. YOU MUST HAVE 2 SOUNDER CIRCUITS.
Must be a very rich Scout Group to have such a lovely HQ and be able to have this work done
The surface box in the toilet you have put in does not meet regs, it needs fo be in a metal enclosure and also ceramic connector blocks need to be used on any joints thats have been done
Interesting thanks
Why would that be the case when the rest of the fire accessories are plastic with plastic terminals?
I was going to mention that... I have a nightmare getting ceramic blocks.
Another top video I did not think you could put beacons on the detector circuit? Those cables coming out of the ceiling in the kitchen was probably for a beacon or sounder beacon. What was the fault on zone 1?
Another good one Jordan.
I bet you were glad to see the back of that job. Nightmare job for you, great job for students or learners as that was such a variety of work there.
well done Jordan very impressive work , I think a big help to working is working neat and tidy , keep em coming most enjoyable
Just so you know you need to wire the l1 out terminal also. If you connect the heads incorrectly each head on the next link of wire loses power. Therefore if 1 head is removed all the rest no longer work
He demonstrated in the video that when he removed the heads in the hall, the end call point still functioned. Therefore he correctly tested the polarity and this point has been addressed.
Sound levels were checked throughout i assume? :)
I'd bet, its part of the tests.
fun fact did you now that in the us by code you are not aloud to have a low voltege fa or fire alarm wires next to high voltige wire they have to be at a min of 5 feet away due to if one of the wires is on fire it does not damige the wire next to it . and did you now that fa or fire alarm wire is fire prof and that is why fa wire is red .and i am a fire alarm expert that is why i now this. KEEP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!
What qualification do you need as an electrician to install fire alarms?
thank you for sharing, I really need to know about the fire alarm system installation.
Well Jordan, love your videos. I left sparking in 1996 and in the fire alarm game since. Recently started with a wireless fire alarm company using ems kit. You should check out their new smartcell kit ,30 devices max. 👍Best wished from Ireland.☘
They Way you did the ISO-test, don’t tell you If you have a leak to Earth.😬 But otherwise a Nice job.💪🏻🇩🇰
Do you mean on the fire cable? - 17:45 he did an IR test with one lead on brown and blue together, and the other lead on earth
What was the need to replace the exsisting panel? Was it not more expensive to change to a new panel?
much better to replace the panel with a decent quality one with compatible accessories imo.
@@jonathanstephens7804 It wasn't about quality, the issue is trust. Seeing what second-hand rubbish was installed in other areas, the existing panel and sensors were just not trustworthy.
That existing panel was a cb200, at least 20 years old now, the standard recommends a 10 year lifespan for fire panels.
great video but did you tape up the ends?
Good call doing IR on the cables too. Can ya tell I'm commenting as I watch?! ;)
Apollo do a great app helps you with the regs for future fire alarm jobs mate
I bet you did not expect it to unravel as bad as that.
I also think that the sounder types are different ( they must be the same sound type and the toilet should have been a vad to en54-23 so that may be an issue
Its horrible when you have to try and make the best of it
I felt your pain.
Scott Terrell thats most likely what the alarm circuit was doing in the wc that got a joint box on.
I once went to a job to check a fire alarm system which had not operated After a small chip pan fire in a kitchen none of the call points worked and when I opened the panel there was one call point hidden inside it and all the zones had been disconnected! It would have never worked luckily no one was hurt but it just shows you how many cowboys are about installing fire alarms I wouldn’t be able to sleep knowing I’d left a job in that condition
Interesting to see you're using 1.5 mm2 for the zones and sounder circuits! In Austria it's something like 2-core phone wire, very small cross-section and red and black cores, as it's DC. Don't think the only system I've ever looked at (Schrack) has Lin and Lout terminals, it detects missing detector heads by the change of circuit resistance, at least that's what I've been told. All I did was remove one base for about a minute to thread the wires through a hole as the old suspended ceiling was demolished and reconnect it exactly as it'd been before. All work on the system is done by manufacturer service techs. As the loop resistance is stored in the panel you can't even alter the length of any cables without reprogramming the panel.
Sounds like that might have been an older system apparently the newer ones can detect head removals. Yes I think the UK decided to go with the same size stuff that simplifies installs as it can bounce between low voltage and high voltage and then they only have to stock one kind of cabling. I'm in the US and again telephone wire or similar smaller gauge wire is the tendency here I think that might be to fall under the low voltage requirement and to prevent Mix-Ups.
Although it is easier to install after the fact so maybe it has to do with when the regulation was written into a requirement to make it easier for after installs
Coming from a fire alarm enginner neat job Jordan? Very thorough continuity and IR testing also . I wish most of the panels I came to looked like that inside . How have you gone about issuing a modification certificate ?
Thank you!
I just issued a modification certificate as normal
The alarm sense/ twin wire base sounder usually requires a link on the base if there is no head installed , I’m sure that might of caught you out, easy mistake , plus did you print the date on the batteries?. You mentioned the zone polarity but should check the head removal fault works, thus will concur polarity . On some twin wire systems the sounders need to be wire in reverse polarity 👍🏼
Good vid, informative. Thanks for the details, always appreciated.
Thanks for watching!
Question, is it possible to do damage to the panel by either using a capacitor in place of a resistor or vice versa, or by shorting out L1 and L2 completely etc.
I don't think so, it just messes up the signalling. A bigger question would be whether the panel would survive one of those zones getting connected to 240V! A well designed panel should have some protection, as nearby lightning strikes will induce large transients in the zone wiring, but probably not enough to survive direct connection to the mains.
Top of the line Electrician
26:07 I think the zones (detectors, call points, sounder bases) use capacitors and the sounders use resistors
So I think the detector should have a capacitor not a resistor
its hard to imagine anyone doing work like that, but there are several scenarios, i cant imagine a proper electrician doing that no matter how rough they are, and i am sure if it was a registered installer an organisation like the scouts would have been in touch with whoever they were or are registered with. Really there should have been detectors in the loft as well, and i guess if the place needed a working fire alarm they shouldn't have been using the building.
with the ctec cfp if you take the cover off you can enter walk test where it automatically silences itsself after it has cleared instead of manually resetting it
Hi guys my name is kais and I was wondering is there any electricians looking for an apprentice. I’m currently finishing off my level 2 C&G .
Sorry guys my location is in Harrow
Cracking video, very informative. Please keep up the excellent work.
Many thanks!
Outstanding.
The pellet with the poison’s in the flagon with the dragon! The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!
What about the chalice from the palace?
They broke the chalice from the palace.😁
If you can follow that then you know which needs an end of line resistor and which needs a capacitor. 😂
Ive not done these in a while so correct me if im wrong but the supply was never required to be in FP if it had a battery backup as the batteries keep the supply to the alarm but all the outgoing circuits did to maintain the sounder circuits during the event of a fire? Also the non switched fuse spur was ok as it required a tool to isolate it? Unless regs have changed since.. like i said it has been a while 😂. Like others have said on here i would have left the original sounders and put an addition above the board on a seporate circuit. Still loving the work though, keep them coming and yet again another professional install. Take care and stay safe 👍😁
It is a requirement for it to be fire rated cable
Ive just found it. Below is an extract from BS 5839. Thanks for the info 👍😁
Recommendations for mains power supplies The following recommendations are applicable to the low voltage mains supply to the system. NOTE 1 This supply should be regarded as an integral part of the fire alarm system, particularly for the purpose of certification of the system (see Clause 41), regardless of whether the electrical installation within the building is provided by the organization responsible for installation of the fire alarm system. "All fire alarm cables should be of a single, common colour that is not used for cables of general electrical services in the building, to enable these cables to be distinguished from those of other circuits." NOTE 13 The colour red is preferred.
Source URL: www.electriciansforums.net/threads/main-supply-to-fire-alarm-panel.120451/
Great series. Just binge watched the lot and enjoyed your trials and tribulations from start to finish. Thanks for explaining everything so well as you went along too. :-)
Awesome thanks for watching!
Would you not of disconnected the sounder circuits when testing the heads and mcp? Saves you having to have your ears blown off you. The visual indication on the panel will also verify the sounder has been activated so no need for the sore ears.
Good tip
@@artisanelectrics it's what we do whenever we are servicing fire systems. Saves the ears 😂
Good work sir...painful as it was :-D There's better, flusher, floor boxes than those suitable for the socket, but hey ho, money is tight i suppose.When i first started watching you messing with the alarm panel, ithought..."end of line capacitors?...theyr'e normally resistors" lol..ah well got the job done.
I'm glad you found the call points, could have been some serious loss of life if there was a fire. Tragic install, really hate cowboy sparks, unless they were wireless call points which I doubt.
Brilliant 👏
Hi, I have a question. Is the Apollo 65 smoke detector, which has a red LED, able to take pictures or videos at the installation site? I would be grateful if you answer
Hi, I really enjoyed it. Nice video I will later also work at a fire protection company! super nice I also learned something from it !!!! keep it up!!!!
Amazing vid .I could only watch a few mins .How do you know the panal is knackered if was never even wired in?How do you know any of it bar the call pints were kncked too> I would hate u doing work for me, Sorry but you are just a rip off company,Unless the client as asked for all new then why are you putting it in without testing to see what is broken?
The panel is about 10+ years old. It also had 1 sounder circuit when it should have 2 sounder circuits
Forgive my ignorance but why is there a need for resistors and capacitors in the 'end of line' kit ?
Great vid... dib dib dib
So the system knows if a cable becomes cut
@@edcooper2396 thx
Why only fit strobes in the loo? We have them in every room. What if your deaf and alone in the kitchen or hall?
Thanks for an interesting series
Glad you liked it!
The easiest way to do a battery load test: grab a multi-meter, connect + of multi-meter to + of battery, then connect - of multi-meter and connect to - of battery. Make sure the multi-meter is set on DC VOLTAGE, It may not work on AC Voltage. Also, Put zone labels next to each device, It'll make it easier to point out which device goes to what zone in future maintenance.
You might have been better off putting the panel into test mode then it would have just done two bleeps when your were testing, I have done that in the past when I have tested my panel which I think is this same model as the one you tested.
I just couldn’t figure out how to do it
Did you know on the control panel? If two yellow lights are flashing? That means there are faults?
When you took the checkpoint panel off you should have realised it was a bi-wire and that you needed a bi-wire with alarmsense detection ya sausage
Will we ever see the end of this hell hut?? 🙄🙄🙄🙄🤣🤣🤣
Is there no devices in the roof space?
No, not needed. Its just a loft.
Artisan Electrics , no worries dude thought I’d ask as when I’ve installed full systems myself previously (F/A designed by others) roof voids above I think 600mm have always needed them if there’s a detector below ceiling
@@artisanelectrics not technically your judgement call. Careful with that! Only a fire risk assessment can make that call, and if you decide it doesn't need them then it's on your neck if something goes wrong. This is why so many of my electrician friends are totally backing out of doing fire alarms. Too much at stake.
great vid. are you getting the system commissioned or doing it yourself?
Sparks havnt got a clue when it comes to commissioning fire alarms haha ! They think they do !! I have commissioned loads over the years and there is always a snag on every single one
I did it myself with some expert help.
@@artisanelectrics great stuff. The whole commissioning thing used to confuse me. For years the company I worked for (Electrical) wired and installed and then got a fire alarm company in to commission. Being with NIC they have their own commissioning courses and Bafe accreditation but its a hefty price! Where does the law sit with this?
What did you connect with first manual call points ...it looks u terminates them in wago connectors ...then how would first manual call point work then.??..
I love the fire alarms end i am jari
I thought I was the only person that went into a complete state of panic with that specific noise. I absolutely despise it and no matter how many times i hear it it has the exact same effect every time
😬
It's against the regs the fire system must be wired in fire rated cable completely from the board and on a circuit of it's own non rcd
Scott Terrell non RCD preferred not a requirement.
There is a reg for the mains cable having to be fire rated cable, also needs to come from main incoming board not a sub board or local board
From Db to double pole fused spur and from fuse spur into panel must be FP. Also the MUST be a minimum of 2 sounder ccts! Other than that, lovely job and would be a nice service
@@stefanfreeman8905 double pole no longer a requirement
@PunjabrangDotCom as soon as you useca control panel that feeds the sounders and separate smokes, not a domestic class smoke detector it needs to be fire rated cabling throughout
Has Dan Jackson seen this? If so, he must be having nightmares over the bodge job from the previous spark 😱😱😱
Hey lovely video, all your videos are inspiring as am an electrician as well.
Thanks!
Does the fire alarm dial out to the Fire Brigade?
With some panels you can get a dialler on it.
Nice video sir, for future fire alarms I would advise labeling the devices with the relevant zone for the next man. You wouldn't believe how often zone charts are lost. Also it sounded like the beacon base had a different tone to the rest. This breaks bs5839. Dip switches will allow you to match them. The batteries shouldn't be tied in as the maintenance engineer servicing will want to take the batteries out to mark on the battery the readings on his visit. At installation stage I would advise marking the panel with the system draw so any future works are visible at the panel end when testing. You may have done this and didn't show anyone but you should issue a fire alarm log book to record weekly tests, maintenance visits, site details etc.
This wasn't a rant. Btw just passing on advise.
Good video 👍
Thanks good info
Brilliant video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
What codes are you required to follow for installing this system and what licenses do you need?
You like to test yourself, bet your glad that’s over. I do EICR and sometimes I do HMOs which have a fire alarm system in them, but I never touch them as I do not have any experience in them, any advice on what I should do at the moment I always advise the customer they need a fire alarm expert. Also in one of your videos you said you had done a review on a Kewtech tester but I cannot seem to find it just interested what you thought as I use one.