Is It Worth It Buy A Commander 2019 Deck for Magic: The Gathering
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Folks, help me out! TH-cam just tanked my newest video, and we put SO MUCH work into producing it for you. It's the newest DTR podcast and it is all about Modern being Mastered, plus a really funny skit. Just give it a view here: th-cam.com/video/gaF0Iz0kZVs/w-d-xo.html and it would help me so much better.
It’s crazy that they didn’t include the multiplayer Battlebond lands - isn’t that what they were made for?
@GamerBear A lot of Battlebond cards were more or less explicitly for EDH. 2 Headed Giant is mainly a limited format, so putting cards like Doubling Season and the Kenriths, who can be your commanders, suggests it was aimed at EDH.
@GamerBear Battlebond was very clearly designed with EDH in mind.
@GamerBear Gavin Verhey explicitly stated Commander was kept in mind when designing Battlebond. It was priority 2 for design.
Not really when you see how expensive those things are.
Those and Dominaria lands would make sense hence why they aren't included.
"No deck should be running guildgates!"
*stares at my decks with regular taplands nervously*
You should be fine. If your deck feels slow while playing it, just look into ways of getting mana faster. After all that is the game, fix what isn't working.
The point is that you "have" to run guildgates and other bad lands, if you can't spend $3 each on painlands, check lands, etc. Which makes it so dumb that wizards puts guildgates in the precons, since the precons are supposed to give you the groundwork for decks and it would also lower the price of those painlands and checklands enough, that budget players can run them instead of guildgates.
i understand that guildgates are an easy way to fix colours, but couldnt they just put in gain-lands? they are a direct upgrade, at least youre getting smth out of it (scrylands would be even better, if they dont want to fasten things up).
Guildgates are fine & flavourfull in ravnica, but nothing more
this is ME
@@TheKnaeckebrot They did put gainlands in there as well. The WRG populate deck for example has no guildgates, but like 4 gainlands and 3 bounce lands. The rakdos madness deck had 2 gainlands, 1 guildgate and 1 tapland with no upside and nothing like Smoldering Marsh or Dragonskull Summit.
Prof's game knights performance deserves an oscar
Probably all the time he spent on the Thespian Stage
@@edgareat6405 an oscar is an award for actors
Your profile picture deserves an oscar
Why? He didn't do anything particularly remarkable or noteworthy. I did like the part where josh whiffed on all five dice rolls and prof made the lords of chaos reference, but prof looses points for his dead sssnake meme.
Why? He got baited into keeping a garbage hand. Not hating on prof, i love the guy, but it was an obvious rookie mistake.
It was wild not finding a terminate or bedevil in merciless rage tbh
There was a chaos warp, which in commander is better than both.
Or dreadbore
That would have been cool to see in addition to the chaos warp
@@willemboele2079 not from a flavor point ;)
I agree
How to solve these problems:
Add Talismans and Signets in, complete the slow fetches cycle and add that in as well, and maybe throw either the tango lands or pain lands in.
These are 1/2 dollar cards, you add no more than 15 dollars of value, which is more than fair considering the price, you piss no one off since these are cards for play and you're not bringing down any price or making the precons chase targets, and you have a much more decent mana base and ramp that doesn't force you to thespian stage 3 turns in a row to get your colors.
Oof that callback lol
Agreed! Not only it gives enfranchised (and new) players cards they can actually use, it avoids the great feels bad being mana screwed causes to players using then out the box. There's no reason to avoid puting amonkhet lands instead of guildgates, slow fetches instead of standard-tapduals...
Hell, I'd take the cycle duels in place of the other 'junk duels' they have in there. Plus if they reprint the tango, cycle duels, slow fetches, and so on into all the commander decks, their prices would soon justify their inclusion as 10 cent cards.
Bbut they won't, as they feel the rarity of the cards is more important then their actual value. They'd logic "Well we're adding these rare lands, gotta cut other rares" which makes no sense, but it's how they operate.
Oh yeah the thespian stage. No wonder prof was so upset about the mana base of these decks 😂
Yeah that oretty much sums it up
$20 cards and $0.20 cards cost the same to print.
While strickly true the hidden cost is upsetting mtg finance individuals whom invest alot of money into woc products expecting it'll go up in value not go down. I feel WoC doesn't want to upset those customers. Some buy pallets of the stuff, hense whales of customers.
Edit: not saying I agree or disagree just stating the business view.
@@charanth182 I think that false. Look at bird of paradise and lanowar's elf their original version still expensive as hell despite countless reprint. I think they just need to make more art version of the same art to keep the accessibility to budget player and more luxury one (Rare, extended full art version) for collectors, look at every promo card Wotc has made, their buying power is crazy
@@charanth182 mtg finances and people who invest in magic can go fuck themselves. it's a fucking game, not something to invest on
@@charanth182 Maybe we should let there be whales with cards outside manabases. The worst part about Magic is that the worse deck oftentimes can't even play their worse cards on curve because of the constant time walking having bad tap lands introduces.
@@charanth182 wizards will do what's best for them, which will include pleasing people who have built a business around speculating on colorful cardboard.
But I am not going to consider that an upside when making my purchasing decisions.
It's perfectly fair to point out that a deck is less fun for customers than it could be even if it is built that way in order to please a third party.
CAN I ASK WHY DON'T THEY PRINT THE BATTLEBOND DUALS INTO COMMANDER PRODUCTS EACH YEAR!!?!?!?!?!?!?
So you buy more battle bond packs unfortunately.
@@SHAD0WHUNTER41 but battlebond has been out of print for more than a year.
@@brianwise5850 Doesn't mean that a LGS won't have boxes of packs for people to buy. I'm not advocating it I'm just saying why. They aren't going to give desired reprint cards if they can be chase (set of) cards in the next not for standard product.
I would have loved to see them, or similar but new commander only good lands.
probably keeping them around for a return to battlebond in 10 years...
Great review!!
The commander zone review felt like an ad. This is one is more critical, but fair.
Thanks for the content. =)
That's cause it kinda is. It showcases new product and they get stuff early. We get entertaining content. Everyone is happy.
The Command Zone guys really need to learn to employ criticism. They already plug Card Kingdom and UltraPro profusely, advertising the decks without discussing the negatives is off-putting, and a disservice to players.
@@LordXypherious The Command Zone "reviews" remind me of another gaming channel I used to watch (not mentioning their name, but they are pretty huge) that pretty much became a sellout and hyped everything they had on the table, even when everyone else was giving it a 2 or 3 out of 10, they'd say it was awesome and perfect every time. I have stopped watching the CZ reviews now and just watch their episodes of Game Knights and sometimes listen to the podcasts when painting miniatures.
The Prof is a great breath of fresh air in a community filled with suck ups and sellouts. He speaks his mind and instead of bashing, he offers a suitable counter to improve those flaws which is what a good reviewer does.
That's because it is an ad.
ddarmo2 You might be right in a sense, I think prof remains fair and critical as he still stands for what he thinks commander format should be. Thumbs up for that any time
Can always count on Prof for actually caring for the consuemrs unlike others that dance to shinny keys and accept it.
His product reviews (sleves, folders, cases) are top notch and almost brutal to the shitty products.
yeah, command zone also feels like a big sellout since like a year or so...
Honestly if you don't preorder the decks then having big reprint value is a net loss for those looking to pick up commander products. The price jumps up and it's so hard to even find one because everyone has set to tearing them apart to sell for parts.
@@BIFIMASTER1 yeah now that they are sponsored they are going to sugarcoat everything 😪
Caleb Seda absolutely... I also wonder why they make no game knights episodes with their old pals. These influencer/twitchdudes are lacking knowledge of edh IMO.
"No commander deck ever should be running Guild Gates"
Maze's End will remember that
*laughs in Golos*
DauntlessOdin Golos just wants to go to a desert tho
As a new player in his 40s I love your videos so much. Thank you, Professor.
Someone really didn't want to say The Son of Yawgmoth's name.
I leave it to Seth to pronounce it correctly.
@@TolarianCommunityCollege and I laughed way harder at that than i probably should have.
You can't say Kerrick Prof.?
"english professor"
@@ichiel1898 To his credit, K'rrik is technically not real English. It's Phyrexian. Not really defending him here, just letting you know what his most likely justification for this is
You definitely hit a note for me with this one professor. One of the best parts of commander is that its a sort time portal for magic the gathering. The format allows cards from every set of magic! The decks should include some of the old spells of magic. When new players see these cards it encourages them to look back at mtg's past and discover a whole new world! Plus its a nice treat for experienced players to see some classics.
Each commander deck should have had a Battlebond dual land reprinted. The effect is only worthwhile in multiplayer, and will never see reprints in standard. Commander decks should be the obvious way to reprint them and expand the cycle to a full 10 color combo completion. The lands are only around $7-$10 now, why wait till they're $20 each from zero reprints for wizards to justify not putting such expensive reprints in the deck.
I could see them randomly throwing in a box to make people buy them. The same is true for brawl products
At this point... I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the Brawl pre-cons.
@@TheMarsCydonia unlikely as they advertise brawl as 1v1 (at least on MTGArena)
They're probably going to wait until they're expensive and then put them in another supplementary booster like "Battlebond 2" or "Conspiracy 3" to sell packs and then everyone will praise them for "great reprints" when all they did was print themselves a fat check.
@@elijahdavila3684 haha yes-so they make extra money-i hope the use regenerated paper for their cards at least
Commander would be a good place to reprint the bicycle lands. Or finish the cycle.
Battlebond cycle could be finished here too
I truly adore the Professor's alliterations.
I'm not worried about a commander deck that's worth more than I'm paying for it, I'm disappointed in the 5 or so cards in the decks that are reprints of sets recently in standard. I have most of these cards just from opening the occasional booster pack. I don't want money, I want a deck with cards that I don't already have. Lazy deck building IMO.
Agreed, especially when the cards they could've put in like Dream Chisel didn't cost much at all till...WTF Your making a bloody morph deck!, also no new Ixidor? :P
Wait you don't like meteor golem? xD
Can't agree more.
@@jjanjell - "Wait you don't like meteor golem?"
Wait, you don't like a card that's in not just one, but _two_ currently standard legal sets? :P
I completely agree here. Magic has been around for more than two decades and has over 17,000 cards printed at this point. They have an incredible card pool to select from, and so many of those cards are so rarely used that they are frequently relatively inexpensive. It would be nice to see some reprints from some of the coolest sets that were released. Why not go back to Ice Age, or Mirrodin, or Lorwyn, or any of the Nth edition sets/core sets? Leylines were recently reprinted, and they go in a lot of decks. They would have been great a year or two ago before C20. So what about OG ravnica cards that were fun? Or Zendikar and Innistrad? There is a lot to work with, and most of us don't really play standard so what's up with all the standard prints?
The prices you noted for the highest value reprints at 10:40 are post reprint prices.
You can’t beg for reprints and then complain about the reprints not being high value enough if you are going to blatantly misrepresent information this way.
The prices before reprints:
Geth, Lord of the Vault - $10
Seedborn Muse - $11
Solemn Simulacrum - $5.50
Lightning Greaves - $7.75
Tempt with Discovery - $8.50
@ Prof. That way he can see this.
This. Especially when you consider the fact that he made a video about needed reprints making the value drop for chase cards.
I know it's most probably an honest mistake but it feels somewhat dishonest.
Also, these cards are in such high demand that their price might just pop back up in a matter of months
I hate WotC’s notion that quality mana bases are just for Modern. Screw that.
Because making the BEST taught within budgets isn't good enough for WOTC it's ALL the money or keep playing with your friends in the kitchen!
@@matthewrichards4078 Same way of Yugioh
*WotC:* We're really gonna put more of a focus on the reprints this year.
*Priciest reprint is Lightning Greeves*
Okay...
man cant wait to build Dinosaur tribal with EGGS !!
Same, my dude.
Yeah, I need a deck list xD
I can't wait to build eggs with eggs
sameeeeeee
Same!!!
You all remember when dockside extortionist was only 12 dollars
i remember when i bought the precon at 30 bucks on amazon and sold the dockside at my LGS for 5 dollars :)
I'm a relatively new player, starting with War of the Spark, and so far Commander has been my favorite format. I pre-ordered all of the decks before spoilers and even afterwards I feel pretty good about them, although I do wish I was around for the apparently mythical days of C16.
Welcome to the game!
The cheapest 2016 deck is around $80 now, with the most being $200. All of the decks were great imo
Seeing as commander is one of the most popular format, WOTC should make the precons more beginner-friendly decks. They should make a “commander masters” set, similar to modern masters targeting the modern market.
Heck, I'd buy a Commander Masters box...
If that's their stance, lower the price.
Fuck NO! Not similar to Modern Masters for the love of God!
If Commander Masters is also worth 200+ a box then what's the point? Or did you see Modern get cheaper these last few years?
Reduce amount of decks
Increase price
Lower expected value
Thanks wizards
Remember in 2014 when they reprinted medallions? Totally getting mercilous rage for k'rrik I've got 2 k'rrik decks set up
The alliteration in the introduction was magnificent, well done sir.
The madness deck is pretty legit. We had a guy pull it out of the box and sleeve it up and put up a pretty good game at my LGS.
It put up a pretty good fight at our pre-con night on Friday in the 1st game. 2nd game, I took them out turn 6 playing the morph deck. Flip over Thelonite Hermit at previous players end step, used Strionic Resonator to copy the triggerred ability. Moves to my turn, untap and play Biomass Mutation where X is 10. Swing 8x 11/11s at their face.
I appreciate your analysis. I don't know if anyone from wizards or TH-cam ever reads these comments, and I know I don't speak for the masses, but I never buy new wizards products without seeking reviews of some kind. I've found yours to consistently be clear. Rather I agree with you or not, I always understand your reasoning and concerns and walk away from your videos with more understanding of my potential purchase than I started with. You do good work and I want to say thank you.
Dockside for 12 bucks? man those were the days
I’m really digging this set. Seriously considering buying all 4 so that I have something to play with friends and family
They should've included the 2 color cycle lands instead of guildgates. WotC really shouldn't reprint guildgates ever unless it is a deck revolving around gates
5:47
I'm glad the Professor doesn't think my maze's end deck is a legitimate commander deck. Now I see how it is, prof. ;)
I remember one of the last great reprints we got was Mirari's Wake in Feline Ferocity, but that was two years ago. We now find ourselves as one of the largest formats in magic with cards swing up in price and Seedborn Muse is the best they can offer? Looks like I'm buying singles again.
last year enchantress presence and bear umbra were good, that was about it tho
I don't agree with you on everything, but hell, this was a very well made analysis and I am thankful for it! Good job.
Was legit waiting for this just to see if I made the right choice of purchase. Honestly would just watch it to hear, "Many magic the gathering players ask the question."
I was the guy in my play group who got merciless rage. Pretty happy after watching this video
You know you can watch old videos again right
Picked up Merciless Rage from my LGS. Always loved the Madness mechanic and finally have a deck that I can put old Tibalt in without someone complaining that I'm running "trash" cards.
That said, I believe the power of each deck is lacking very much.
You have to upgrade any of the decks to play against most Commander decks you'll see outside of the precons in order to have a chance at a game that last longer than turn 4.
I find myself missing the good old precons like Oloro, Ageless Ascetic.
Nobody is asking for folded 100 dollars bill. WoTC can throw in better reprints similar to the ones Prof mentioned.
I wouldn't say no to the bill either tho
Faceless Menace was my pick because I dig the sultai colors and messing with people. Great vid as always professor, your work always makes me smile and reminds me of fun times playing with my friends. Keep on being you man! And never stop rocking the hair!
If these decks are targeting the new player market why put the price at 45 bucks. Why would a new player risk buying this product?
Classic WOTC
Been trying to play Magic, a $40 deck isn't enticing at all, it's pretty alienating
45 is not much compare to many other builds. I think it's a fair amount many people can afford
Idk a full 100 card deck for 45 bucks sounds good to me.
I saw Primal Genesis dominate the field all weekend as I was playing it and playing against it. I think it's the most focused of all the decks and personally, it is my favorite.
After talking about it with the locals at the LGS during EDH night, I kind of came to the conclusion that precons have become a starting point and nothing more. Gone are the days when you would pick up a deck and reach full potential with some changes, or when you received great toys to tinker with that weren't just a better buy as singles. WotC can raise the price tag to $50+ for all I care. But if our playgroups aren't extremely hyped for it, it'll just sit there looking pretty behind the glass case.
While I agree with a large portion of Prof's assessment here, I don't think he did an adequate job assessing reprints.
I think it's more important to evaluate the cost of reprints PRIOR to their reprinting. For example, Seedborn Muse is a $4 now, but was $11 prior to its reprinting. People always discuss how, in years prior, we'd receive cards like Wurmcoil Engine or get new cards like Teferi's protection, both of which are $30-40+ cards now. On release, Wurmcoil was $14, close to the price of Seedborn Muse AND seeing less play, and Teferi's Protection was $16, the same price as K'rrik at release.
Criticisms are fair, but accuracy in demonstrating the actual market Dynamics is important to painting the most accurate picture of the impact these sets have.
I pulled my prices from mtggoldfish's price history
I do that often in these videos and am often criticized for using pre-reprint prices. For this video I looked at cost on day of launch and said as such. There's only so much information a 16+ minute video analysis can hold, but I do think that, whether you look at launch day cost or pre-launch cost, these were a rather lackluster selection of reprints. Better than last year, not not as good as usual.
And he doesn't talk about european prices. Here magic singles are most of the time something like twice cheaper than in the USA.
Actually the cost of the reprints prior to their reprinting in europe is about their cost now in the USA, so for my european fellows, this video is accurate
@@TolarianCommunityCollege And I think that's fair given the absurd amount of research that would go into digging up prices for 300+ cards prior to their spoiling, but I think the point still stands. Do I think that they should increase reprint value for these decks? Absolutely! But I don't believe that launch day prices are a the most fair or accurate judgment of reprint value due to the market adjusting dramatically in that time that passes between card spoiling and release.
Take Phyrexian Altar for example. The card was well over $60 in many markets prior to its spoiling for UM, but dropped below $45 at UM's release. When this happened, many players were discussing how amazing it was that they reprinted a $60+ dollar card, not a $45 one.
I don't mean this as a direct criticism of you alone, but I think that the player base as a whole could benefit from doing a little more digging into these price fluctuations when reprints happen, as well as evaluating reprints consistently across the different products WotC puts out. I always see players treat the Commander products, and this year's in particular, with a different level of criticism than they treat other reprint sets, often pointing to bottoming out prices rather than the prices that the reprints are impacting.
Like I said, you make a lot of great points, just something I wanted to note. Long time fan of the channel and all of the work you do, and thanks for taking time to reply to my comment Prof!
A long awaited video! Thanks, Prof. (aka Game Knights Beast)
A few years back, my usual group for MTG used to actively play Commander, they went nuts for it but I really never got into it, specially since I felt I lacked the cards to play (playability-wise). Now I moved to a new area and is just me and a friend I thought to play MTG, we both decided to buy a Commander 2019 deck and try the format for the first time. In the end, I ended up with Merciless Rage and I'm quite happy with my choice, specially after seeing this video. Thanks for the info!
They'll make the brawl decks better to justify brawl over commander. It's a move to push their unwanted format.
Other players from my LGS advised me to buy a brawl deck. Thier reasoning? The base deck was good, and it had 35ish built in spaces for you to customize the deck.
Thanks Prof. Played in a Commander tournament yesterday. Didn't use the pre-built decks. I used my own homebrew. I did pretty well. Managed to walk away with one booster and a whole lot of ideas on how to upgrade my deck.
This is the first year in since 2014 that I won't be getting all the commander decks. I might pick up one, probably won't buy any and just buy singles when I need them. Last years were disappointing but I at least found the themes to be broad and interesting (ie "topdeck matters" has so many cards and mechanics that synergize with that theme in different ways). This years themes all felt much smaller and less interesting.
You bought all 2018 Precons?
Already only bought Aminatou last year, this year I only bought Flashback because I wanted Deckside Extortionist, Pramikon and some of the other worthless new cards. Still have a full set of sealed Commander 2016 lying around, that was easily their best year. K'rrik is stupid and I don't want him (It's one of those commanders that gets you kicked out of the playgroup if you play it seriously), the other 2 decks are just not worth it.
I appreciate the quick and exstensive report as always. This is my first year of playing commander and I am excited to pick up a couple boxes. I hope the madness deck can be melded into my Xantcha deck for a truly chaotic rakdos experience!
Grabbed all 4. I tend to keep a set of different pre-cons around for new players to try out, or if I'm just in the mood to play the decks.
JLK did mention he heard why the reprints are usually not $20+ cards. Namely, to keep them accessable to players who want them (as fetches, for example, see play in multiple formats, and it's hard to buy the decks if they keep selling out to an audience who doesn't play the format)
That said, having more 5-10 doller cards in it would be a good alternative
That would just mean increased print run for WotC and a better financial quarter. There's def some behind the curtain shenanigans w/ the secondary market for them though. I mean as others have stated, it wouldn't cost anything extra to reprint and yes, there's a risk of bottoming out some prices but that's the risk involved in investing in a TCG.
Rather than be afraid to upset some of the older player base who have a decade's worth of cards to pull from, they're gonna nickel and dime the new fellas for subpar reprints as long as they can get away with it. To be fair, they've had probably the highest success in the past few years but if they really cared about entry-level players, they'd do right by them and reprint some of the more outlandishly priced cards in order to make the game relatively accessible for people who want to have fun but can't afford a $15 singles for a proper mana base.
This is an utter bullshit excuse for shitty reprints that's just no true:
include one 20$ card in each deck and print in large enough quantities and voila!
Keeping it accessibly to new players while also including great reprints is entirely in Wizard's hands
Did either of you play during 2013. The jeleva deck came with true-name nemisis. As a result, competitive players and speculators snagged everyone they could, driving the price of the one deck up. To the point where they actually had to actually increase the print run of the deck, and include 2 jeleva deck in a case, and forgoing one other deck in the cases for that year.
Or 2016. Atraxa was printed, and again, the decks became overpriced and scarce.
While both of those cards were in fact newly printed cards, and not reprints, it showcased what happens when high value cards are in the decks. It warps the market.
Is it bullshit if there is a precident? Note: I'm IN the same camp as you. I would rather the higher value cards myself also. Don't take my comment as trying to defend WOTC. I'm only pointing out that there reasoning, while I argue being flawed, does come from evidence within the market.
Increased print run is technically the best way to solve this. But even with that, it wouldn't guarenteed against price gouging, scalpers, and people buying the product for souly for reasons outside the format.
@@krvys7226 A new Legacy Staple printed in only 1 commander deck is hardy precedent, that was a dumb move that they're obviously not gonna do again. It's pretty much irrelevant when talking about reprinting more value.
I'm not aware of issues with the Atraxa deck, but it had a lot of value in reprints and great new cards as far as I know, including a little more in the others would have solved that. Plus, Atraxa ended up being like the most popular commander ever, that's a little hard to predict I would think.
@@LedPESRule the issue with the atraxa deck was the fact it was impossible to find, similer to what happened to the jeleva deck. Arguably for a different reason, but the end result was the same. Hence why it was used as the second example of setting that precident. I never said the jeleva deck alone was my only example.
The issue with reprinting value in the decks is, funny enough, the resultant value of the decks.
Jeleva deck was expensive because high value cards.
Atraxa was expensive due to high value cards.
Therefore, they are wary of putting in high value cards, even reprints. Because the relevant issue is not them being reprints, but high value.
Again, I would rather have the high value reprints myself. I'm just pointing out the argument that is the reason WoTC is doing it.
I will most probably pick up the Merciless Rage deck since Rakdos has always had my fav themes. And afterwards convince my 3 friends to buy the others so we have a pod
Pretty sure I heard someone from WotC say that they didn't put in more valuable reprints because it would make the decks too appealing to existing players. The logic being that the existing players would buy up all the supply and keep new players from getting their hands on the decks. Think they said something like "the goal has to be to get new people playing commander, to reprint good cards, or to make really synergistic and balanced decks. You can't really do all of those things effectively in one product". In my opinion WotC should just accept that there's a large learning curve in getting into MTG and let Arena do the introductions. When it comes to commander products they should give us needed reprints and new cards - that's it. Don't waste time trying to force those cards into decks that might appeal to newbies. The best way to appeal to new players if you ask me is to make cards more affordable, and you do that by reprinting the crap out of cards that cost more than $5 for a single cardboard rectangle. But that's just my opinion
The whole "But then existing players would buy out the decks!" excuse is moot but people keep using it. WOTC themselves said they changed how they print these decks and they can now print more of any individual deck on demand in case something like that happens.
@@elijahdavila3684 Yes, but then you will also get people complaining about the reprints losing value as more of them enter the market. It's a weird spot to be in.
The weird spot to be in here is complaining that a piece of cardboard could become cheaper. Screw those people.
@@midnightgreen20 I would venture to say that most people want reprints of cards in precons like this *because* that will make those cards cheaper and more obtainable for the playerbase, not because they want money cards to sell for financial value. I would say that magic financiers are looking for high power/high price reprints at high rarities in booster sets rather than in precons where everyone is guaranteed every card.
As someone who has just gotten in to playing magic Pre cons like this are good to see how these decks are built, and give a better idea of where to go if you don't want to net deck. Also just for having all the lands.
and my deck may still be in that deckbox
I still hate what Verhey said about their reasoning as to why fetchlands aren't in the precons. "Fetchlands aren't necessary for a commander deck to function." While this is technically true, why do the fill all these decks to the brim with crappy taplands and fetches in the form of Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse? All things that do exactly what the good fetches do, mana fixing. It's clearly just a case that they don't want to reprint these cards for fear of upsetting the secondary market
Thanks for an honest (non-shill) evalution of the decks. The dollar value will change over time, but the ‘can it be played out of the box’ review will always be useful.
I’m new to the commander format and preordered a few decks. I look forward to having a constructed product to sit down and play with a few times till I get the hang of things. :)
Good luck. It is often an enjoyable format. Just have fun, and hope luck is on your side.
Which minimally, the professor's reviews of "Should you buy X?" ought to have a range of recommendations:
New Players? A+ Yes definitely.
Playing for a year+? B+ There is value here.
Playing for 3+ years? C-, you may want to just buy cards on the singles market.
Playing for 5+ years? D, although you might want some of the new commanders.
@@themadstudent except the ones from last year if you look around. Most of them are still cheap.
Great and clear analysis, thank you! This year my buddy and I are skipping the Commander precons in favor of buying singles. We don't want to add more filler to our collections.
I feel like your evaluation of the Primal Genesis deck is unfair. Admittedly the deck didn't quite get as pampered as the other three decks in terms of valuable reprints, I still feel the deck is very fun and very competitive versus the other three. Is your evaluation in terms of what you can do with it when you construct onto it or in it's vanilla form? Because I think it's likely the strongest if not second strongest when competing versus the other three in their pure virgin forms.
Which is pointless
@@Ubermunki3You're right!
Not exactly sure what you're referring to, but sure.
@@Raidersge I also think the Naya is the strongest of the 4, especially if you play them FFA out of the box. I can't agree with prof that flashback deck is tied to best build either, as I find it probably the worst (no past in flames, only 1 retrace, elder dino and sun titan in a spellslinger deck rofl)
Yeah, I think the Flashback deck is actually the weakest.
I beat 7 other people at FNM with Primal Genesis during the relase. I even kept 3 other people alive simultaneously so they could complete their Commander achievements. Primal Geneis is great out of the box and a dangerous EDH deck once upgraded.
while not the best decks they're fun and personally getting all 4 partially to teach new players with in tabletop society at university as an easier bar of entry and partially because i think they're neat.
I still wish we could get something along the lines of a commander's arsenal again preferably printed quite heavily.
When professor says no commander player should be running gates and you run the guild gates in each deck you own 😭
Kazzy Shawny lolol
I've lost multiple times to a Golos Gates deck. There's definitely a place for Gates in Commander.
I have lots of decks with gates! They're also around $30, so they're better value and probably more or as playable as these precons are!
There is a lot of elitism in the Commander community, I think.
The professor's opinion on "accessories" is fine, but his opinion about MTG products is near universally akin to:
... "Do you buy every single MTG product? Have you been playing and collecting for 20 years? ... Alright then, should you buy X?"
-- Which pretty much makes his opinion about purchasing MTG products nearly useless for anyone except die-hard magic fans.
I'm also getting tired of hearing him harp about reprints in almost every single video he makes, no matter what the supposed topic of discussion was.
I'm definitely picking up the Madness deck, Madness is one of my favorite mechanics, and Angie Falkenrath is everything I want in a madness commander
Son of Yawgmoth is going to be so broken. I cant wait to make a deck around him
I made a doomsday deck, it's uhh.. it's a deck
@@agrape2887 my favorite kind of decks
Son of Yawgmoth isn't a good commander. He is an AMAZING card in the 99, but I wouldn't put him in charge for 2 reasons: First, he is just a value engine that does absolutely nothing on his own. You are paying 6 life and 4 mana for what is essentially a creature that does nothing once he hits the field, unless you have spare mana and life to play something else. Second, he is overhyped and, as a result, will generate a lot of hate from the rest of the table, even if the deck itself isn't something spectacular.
@@Izelor monoblack in commander is pretty much just a value engine till you find your win con anyway
Thank you so much for posting this. I'm blown away by the level of thought and content you put into your videos. Great stuff.
With Wizards removing the concrete MSRP, the intrinsic value of these decks are extremely mercurial. It is creating an environment where one lgs sells them for around the last MSRP that commander decks were printed at, and another is selling them for almost 60 bucks a unit. This has the possibility to price new players out of the format. It will fall to Walmart and Target to set the actual retail bar whenever they get their supply in stock. It's really unfortunate.
Yea, my LGS has some over the 40$ price, so I just went to Wal-Mart. I hated it, but I'm not going to be gouged, even by my LGS
60? Ulgh. And I thought my LGS selling them for $46 was bad.
You know things have gone horribly wrong at brick-and-mortar shops when you're looking to Target and Walmart for salvation of your wallet.
@@alexbrangan2885 right? I absolutely hate having to go to a supermarket to buy cards when I should be going to my LGS.
I got the Primal Genesis deck, playmat and deckbox from my LGS Friday. I also started upgrading it soon as I got home bc of the mana base.
Yeah i got primal and mystic, was definitely dissapointed by the mana base
Was it not prof who said guildgates are fine in commander?
Seriously though, having gates AND taplands AND gain lands is really really slow
AND evolving wilds...
Unpopular opinion, guildgates ARE fine in commander, especially in three color decks for budget options, which is what most precons tend to be
A big problem is that most decent to good lands are rares that aren't all that splashy and fun. I doubt we will ever see a decent mana base in commander products because of that
So part of the issue is when you have all your dual lands as tap lands, in addition to any effect lands, like Bojuka Bog, that enter tapped it can skew a new players view on what a proper manabase should be drastically. I honestly think they’re fine in moderation, but how flippantly Wizards uses them in the Commander decks is aggravating. Also, there are plenty of lands that could be used as multicoloured options if Wizards didn’t want to affect the Secondary Market too much. Things like the Cycling Duals from Amonkhet, BFZ Check Lands, SoI Lands, Tainted Lands, Odyssey Filters, Normal Checklands, etc. This isn’t even including the random ones that aren’t worth an exceptional amount, like Nimbus Maze. At this point, we should be getting acceptable mana bases. Arguing strictly from a secondary market price point currently doesn’t have as much clout as it once did.
I really wish WoTC took the route of pokemon where they make the playable necessities uncommon and have a few good staples at a rare/ ultra rare rarity. So your shocks and fetches would be uncommon and your urborgs would be rare, etc. You know lands that feel rare.
Product suggestion: A set of established commander cards such as Oracle of Mul Daya or Sol Ring or Atraxa on masterpiece like cards. There would be one in each commander precon. It wouldn’t actually part of the deck and it would a random card each time. I feel like it would be a good way to reprint commander cards that don’t fit in the decks or are too expensive to do so.
Prof: No deck should run guildgates
Me with my maze's end deck: *surprized Pikachu*
it's a really peculiar case where one would want such land cards ; but there's almost no other case where you would want to play a tapland with no etb effect whatsoever...
@@chubibi06 I agree, but saying that no deck should run it, is a falsehood.
Who do you have as your commander? I want to make one but I’m stuck
@@noahfinney4899 I recommend Golos Tireless Pilgrim. It's Maze's End in the Command Zone.
@@noahfinney4899 Golos, Tireless Pilgrim, he fetches lands on etb so you can blink him and get gates or mazes end
Thanks ....nice review. I ended a pre ordering all of them for my wife and I. They are all fun and we are already having alot of fun modifying them.
I think WotC wants to make sure the secondary market for these products does not far exceed the cost of the products themselves. For instance; I feel if they keep jacking up the price, then the products on the secondary market; given the idea of value reprints, could potentially make these go for even higher prices. Especially since stores can now dictate how the products are being purchased by making the price "an average of the market value"
TL;DR, if they increase the value of reprints, the secondary market price of the sealed product would be higher than the "retail market value" WotC -wants- stores to sell them for.
This maybe somewhat true, but you have to have some reason to want to purchase these decks. Go look at 2015-2017. Great years for the product and other than they didnt really print enough of 2016, it really sold well. 2018 was a bad year and it shows with the lack of sales for the product. The price hike also didnt help much at all. And this year i argue is just as vad of a product. The commander product has always been a combination of good quality reprints as well as interesting new cards and mechanics. Without real reprints of note, fewer commander players will pick up decks, lowering the amount of sales.
I think this is always a big issue with the whole demanding better reprints. Better reprints would just lead to a far greater demand and wizards has a tendency of being bad at predicting the market for their own product so only the costumers would suffer. True name nemesis already showed that both stores and people will jack up the price of a deck if it has something that is considered extremely valuable, we really don't need that again I think.
@@CoverofWinter but true name nemesis wasnt a reprint. It was an original commander card.
Still there are many cards that could be added in the deck to make people actually want to buy then and feel fine and fun playing with, without making "investors" buyout. Say we give stuff like slowfetches, amonkhet and bfz duals etc. so the mana base at least work. Say we cut crap like 8 mana flier and 10 mana pyroclasm target from the jeskai deck and keep in the same vein, but throw rise from the tides instead of the pegasus crap and torrential gearhulk. Would people stock up the decks? Not really. But at least the deck would make some sense
Thank you for ranking Primal Genesis last, now I don't have to worry about it selling out too soon
wow, thank you Pro. I was going to buy all four but if there is nothing in them I'll just trade for the few card I want.
This video was a life saver. I was originally going to buy the primal Genesis deck but then I looked at how much the singles I needed cost and realized that I could just buy the commander and 3 other cards for much cheaper, then add cards I already have to create a deck!
Professor I understand your point, commander decks shouldn't run guildgates. Unfortunately for some of us, they are the only dual lands within our reach and budget...
Which is why he wants to see better lands being reprinted so people can afford them
Yeah, prof wasn't calling out you, but wizards.
@@THEMEATBALLER1 Good Point
@@randym5824 I know, it's just a commentary.
How to close the gap between what people want and what wizzars is giving us:
1- more commander focused products each year.
2- released starter commander player and advanced c.player: one focusing on the basics, with low price point, and one focusing more on reprints the format uses, wants and needs.
While I generally agree with you, Prof, I do feel the need to point out that both Seedborn Muse and Geth were *much* more expensive before the announcement of their reprints in these products, commanding a price of over $10 each. Similarly, Strionic Resonator (a card that really only sees play in Commander) dropped for somewhere in the $7 range to less than a dollar. Counting the post-reprint value of these cards against these decks, when they (and others) were considerably more expensive before the reprints, seems counter to the very point you're making in part of this video. They *did* give us cards of value to Commander players; because of these reprints, said cards are no longer expensive. It works! Could they have done better? Certainly. But, I think you are giving them insufficient credit for what they did do.
Thank you for your time.
That is arguably the most well-thought-out comment (regardless of position) I've seen on this video. Well done!
I brought all 4 decks and just had 3 mates come over and play them with me today. We are all experienced players and we all thought out of box they are pretty good to play with. They each have their own game style and can take over the game at any time. I liked them I won’t be keeping them fully intact I’ll be taking some pieces out to make new decks and modifying them after I’ve done that
Bought faceless menace and primal genesis, the 12 mythics in primal genesis are pretty OP and i really like the deck
Honestly it was the only deck i was excited about at first. Red populate! Yes please
Yeah. Primal Genesis was definetly the most powerful of the four
I dont know why the prof says prima is the weakest. I bought the deck and beat merciless rage 3 times. Primal is the only deck with a consistant win con. The other commanders just make the deck more consistant. Only the primal has a commander that can win.
I feel like he got the power levels for the decks in the reverse order
I think prof considers Primal the weakest because the core mechanic of the deck clashes against one of the most popular card types in commander, board wipes. And the deck kinda has a somewhat hard time building back up.
Great video and review! A lot of people in my play group wonder why I’m not getting the decks and this is why. Got my singles from this set early at a great price, less than the cost of one deck for everything I wanted.
C like last year- iMO value is being siphoned off to other non-standard support products. Last year and Battlebond was a good example imo
Why? How?
Do you have any idea how many great commander cards are still worth 5 to 25$? There's a shit-ton of options that they couldn't manage to reprint all in several years even if they wanted to
its way better than last year, not value-wise, but gameplay-wise those feel much nicer and actually somewhat decent. last years decks were barely playable outside of the enchantment deck. would give these B-, last year D
WotC should release a specialty product with all ten shock lands and all ten fetch lands and then top ten commander cards of each color, but print them with a different boarder or put the text “only legal in commander games”. Charge like 40 for it and print the msrp on the box to keep people from easily charging a ton more for them.
"No commander deck should be running guild gates"
Mazes End: Am I a joke to you?
To be fair, mazes end should be the only commander deck running guild gates
Niv-Mizzet: Yes.
*laughs in Golos*
Yes
Thanksssssss for the information! It wasssss exactly what i needed to make my choisssssss. Now, go tell Josh and Jimmy it's time for another Game Knightssssssss.
Instead of fetchlands they should reprint the slow fetchlands
They did last year though, no one cared for them
"slow tap fetchlands"?
@@Kapsyloffer mtglands.com/main-slowfetches.html
@@cutecommie They only enter tapped, the lands they fetch enter untapped unless its an etb trigger like shocklands. The link I posted above are the images of the 5.
Hey Professor, I do agree that the reprint value for these has been...lackluster, since 2018, and that trend does continue with this. However, having played tonight at a local event, I think all of the decks are actually really solid, and their mana bases are really the only major and important upgrades needed. It’s nice to see new support for Naya and Sultai, and honestly I rank them as strongest decks, while the other two are strongest toolkits/toolboxes
“Oh and a deck box or whatever”
The deck box cant even hold god dam sleeves. Like if you want to give me a crappy deck box, sure. But at least let mensleeve my deck and be able to place it in the box.
XCodes or put in a life counter
@@XCodes I don't see what's stopping them from putting Commander precons in tins like how Pokémon and YuGiOh do tin products regularly. People love keeping those tins in those games for storage and they look and feel nicer than paper. Maybe if the hypothetical commander tins are big enough players could actually use them as deck boxes for sleeves edh decks.
the commander anthology decks comes in some very nice boxes that fit perfectly even when double sleeved. those should be the norm
I picked up Merciless Rage from my LGS. The store set up an event where players just play the decks right out of the box and in my group of friends this has been a tradition going back to the very first iteration of this product with the Wedge commanders (Ghave, Kalia, etc.) The value of the product is relatively fair taking into account it's lack-luster mana base, but the subjective value of having a ready to play accessible product for both beginners and veterans is what drives this product's sustainability. I would like to see more mindful picks for reprints out of these precons, but I also understand that WOTC is working on these almost a full year in advance so they are essentially a year behind on player feedback. I personally buy the decks to comply with the on-going tradition of unmodified play and obviously the new "made for commander cards"
on a side note, I would love to see more support for legacy in this product like we've see in the past.
After watching command zone this made me go BRUH.
Did the command zone say how "amazing" these decks are like they do every year as if they weren't sponsored by wizards?
So it's official. The deck I was most interested isn't worth buying over singles. Hell, 3 obvious, auto-include cards (not included obviously) are worth as much or more than the combined value of keepable cards.
Parallel lives, Anointed Procession, Doubling Season/Primal Vigor?
@@Rukalin 👍
An off topic question, Professor, but where do you obtain your ties? Every video I always look to see what tie you're wearing, and never disappointed.
Honestly, a great place to look is your local thrift store. They usually have mountains of ties to choose from for like a dollar a piece.
Lexi F that’s a good idea! Never considered shopping at a thrift store for ties!
Archfeind of spite lord of the vault bone miser really helps that deck boom . also the 6 6 death touch I've tweeked it with a couple bombers and it's actually taking over man.
I can't wait to throw Archfiend of Ifnir into the Merciless Rage deck
Thanks so much!!! I didn’t know if I should get any of the decks, but now I know what I want to do! And again, Thanks so much!!!
I feel this is a definite improvement over last year's commander decks but still not close to the brilliance that was commander 2017. Honestly they should just do a commander set with eminence again.
I must respectively disagree. Eminence had all the non-interactivity of Planeswalker emblems with none of the counterplay. At least you generally have a few turns to kill the Planeswalker before it ults. Eminence started immediately and short of Darksteel Mutation, there's not anything that can stop it, and that's assuming you even play your Commander in the first place.
Sad Robot Boi's new art is pretty dope
I have been playing commander for 4 years now, and it's the first time i'm not buying any of the commander precons ... Just bought about 40$ of singles, and I find it very disapointing ...
Same as last year for me, thoigh I'm tempted to grab the Morph deck just for fun. Still undecided.
Your assessment is fair, these would have been a great opportunity to reprint commander gems of the past like Thought Vessel, Command Beacon and Path of Ancestry.
Thanks for the review prof. Based on this review, I may pick up the Rakdos and Jeskai decks, or just skip altogether. Very disappointing wrt reprints. I'm usually a "buy ALL the precons each year" fellow.
yeah prof has financial bias, the sultai and naya deck are both better than the other 2, jeskai just won game knights because of a rules mistake
While I was disappointed with the reprints they picked (and overall value), I greatly appreciate knowing I can always turn here for overall expense numbers quickly on release.
I'd also like to add that both the morph and token decks preformed significantly better as precons at my LGS, across the entire weekend, across handfuls of pods.