Alfa Romeo vs. Tesla: Fixing the modern car - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 18
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Derek finally drove two modern sedans, the Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio and the Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor Performance. They both blew his mind, but he only wants one for himself. That said, he thinks everyone else should buy the other.
In this episode, Jason and Derek stumble across an idea of how to save Alfa Romeo in the U.S. - and why Tesla Model 3 has proven so popular. The basic idea: the rest of the supposed “sports sedans” have gotten so homogenous and boring that there's no reason to buy them.
Also, Jason thinks California is a decade ahead of the rest of the country, and in related news, he likes the smell of his own farts. Smug jerk that he is.
The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on TH-cam alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
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Count me in for the manual Giulia.....
"I'm dreaming of a [CENSORED.]" Heh, you guys get to guess what I said... 😈
I think I'd get flagged with an honest response
This thread is gonna go 0 to racist in 1.4 seconds.
Not gonna go there.
I think it's just "White Christmas" but because you've been in SoCal for so long you find the idea of snowy roads offensive
Sean Taylor SoCal?! How dare you?! Never!!
Here in Switzerland I can buy a 40K km (60k miles) MANUAL Giulia Quadrifoglio for 50K Swiss francs ($25k)
I only say this for the cruelty of it, yes. 🤣
Cammisa Content = day made
Thanks! :)
The show gets better by every episode. Btw I own a 2018 Giulia ti sport Q2 and its the best car I’ve ever driven by far. I also owned an 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 :)
That's my boy!! Nice pizzas, by the way!! 😋
Also own a 2018 Ti Sport. It is sublime.
@@apostolostvable I own a 2017, I agree.
you should try a 156 with busso-engine ;-)
@@norbertkowalski8453 my first car was an Alfa 156 2.0. Then I had a 2.5 v6. It was glorious
2017 Giulia QV, not a single problem over 3 years! Rev limiter hits at 7100 rpm btw.
Quick steering can help a lot when catching oversteer.
I've had a 4 cylinder Giulia for 2 years and it makes pretty much every single day feel like Christmas. Get one while you can because soon they will all be iCars. Installing a $400 JB4 gave me a Draggy clocked 4.5 sec to 60 easy.
Audio level seemed very low in this episode.
I noticed it too. For me who's hearing is not the best from years of working in high noise factory, the eco and the low volume makes it hard to hear what the lads are speaking of, especially when they are whispering to each other.
Please fix this!
Problem is that every real car enthusiast loves how the Quadrifoglio drives, apparently everyone also knows it's the best driverfocust car and the car to buy but nobody really buy's it. That's a shame because the M3's and C63's of the world are selling like pancakes these days. Guess your viewers don't really listen to your advice. I believe the future will reward the ones who took the jump.
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
Ignore this troll "David Pineda". He is just copying and pasting this reply multiple times. He is also a liar since I am a BMW Level 1 Master Technician for the past 7 years. If what he says is true I would be out of work. Also the new M3 platform is coming out this year and I guarantee you it's going to have lots of issues being a first year new model.
I cannot bear to buy a new car but if I had to, Alfa Gulia would be it. It stirs my soul.
Tesla is cool too but it’s a practical choice, especially if you have a long commute.
I am for the Alfa!
2017 Aprilia Factory Tuono
2001 MB E55 AMG
1977 MB 450 SL
Stupid scared people....my Giulia QV is perfect, 1 year ownership and no issues, its my 3rd Alfa, none made any problems.
ISSIMI is hands down in my top 3 favourite TH-cam channels
same here!
I have owned 2 Giulia's, (2017 & 2019) both of them have had ZERO issues. They are great cars. Super performance out of a 2.0 and great gas mileage. I would never buy a model 3 Tesla, they are extremely unreliable. Far worse than Alfa Romeo, which does not deserve the reputation for their new cars that they have been getting.
I'm really surprised that you didn't have any issue with 2017 model. I personally own 2018 Giulia TI and had radiator and turbo replaced due to leaking (17k miles). I heard 2017 ones have way more problems. And I think this is why I don't recommend buying Alfas as much as I love driving them.
@@225lee99 I owned the 2017 and had zero issues, my best friends family owns a 2017 without any issues. We are now leasing a 2019 and have had no issues with it as well. I can only speak to the reliability of the Giulia's we've owned and know about. Yours obviously had issues. I'm sure every car brand has issues, no brand is absolutely perfect.
Giulia owner here! The steering is jarring at first but you do get used to it. You learn to steer with your fingers and not your arms on the freeway because of how reactive the steering is. Once you've calibrated your brain, it becomes pretty relaxing to drive
Just get a Tesla and hold your hand(s) lightly on the wheel.
@@rkan2 Tesla's suck
I maxed my Giulia TI, the steering gets super tight above 130. It works well, not twitchy.
This is very interesting subject as I find the fast steering on all Alfas for the past 30 years the best thing about the brand, they are fun even at slow speeds. However after driving the Alfas exclusively for almost two decades I do not see why other manufacturers do not use this setup, especially those who pretend to be a sport car brands like BMW for example.
As for the argument that a fast steering can be dangerous at higher speeds, this is really not an issue. My wife drives her small Lancia with a very slow steering rack and when we go to the seaside she drives my Alfa sometimes on a highway at 140kmh, she says nothing but I see that first few kilometres she makes few sharp movements as she need some time to relax and hold the wheel with her fingers instead of grabbing it hard, but few minutes later everything feels normal again.
The thing is you buy 400+hp car and you get slow steering as there is a possibility that you will kill yourself while driving fast on autoban. Nonsensical really.
@@rkan2
Depends on why you buy a car.
If you buy a car to drive, buy the Alfa.
If you buy a car to be driven, buy the Tesla.
This is why I love Jason, he’s the reason I found the Quadrofolgio and it became my dream car because of his praises of it and it’s drop dead gorgeous looks. He created my love for new cars and the passion that I now have for cars in general! Love the podcast as well!
23:33- that's the moment Derek nailed the reason to own the Quadrifoglio. I've got one, and it's ABSOLUTELY an emotional roller coaster. I wouldn't have it any other way.
If these cars were women (or men)
Alfa Romeo:
Comes from a wealthy family.
Has a Bachelor's Degree from USC
Sexy af (also in good shape)
Sense of humor can offend some people (Not PC)
Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (High maintnence)
Bad temper (Always will try to get the last word in arguments)
Very fashionable
Can be classy but they'll pop off if they need to
Amazing in bed
Loud af
Street smart
Swears like Samuel L. Jackson
Has no problem backing you up in a fight but will also call you out on your bullshit
Tesla:
Comes from a wealthy and very connected family from Silicon Valley
Went to boarding school
Very intellegent (Doctorate from Oxford)
Started a business at a young age
Great in bed
Not very emotional and also quite stoic
Always knows what to say (Smooth talking)
Very refined and classy
Struggles to see things through others point of view
Vegan
Vewy, vewy quiet
Guess which one I'd prefer.
I'd also say that the Alfa loves wine (= gas) and gets drunk at times! Write this one on the ''Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (high maintenance)'' point! ;-D
You forgot to state that the tesla prefers to play polo at the country club
But the Tesla Model 3 is not a pretty car to look at, at least to my eyes. Kinda like Daffy Duck when he got his bill blown off by Bugs. I'd still own one, though, if there were better infrastructure support for EVs in my area. I deal with some very cold temps in the winter, also.
@@wisdomntshalintshali3296 Good suggestion
The Alfa sounds like the prefect girl for me (wife material). The Tesla on the other hand sounds lame and boring.
One thing about the Quadrifoglio is the depreciation is insane. You can buy a 2-3 year old low miles in the low 40s.
2018 is great to buy now, it has apple car play
most of them are buybacks though so idk, it's risky.
@@sturdyvw I bought a brand new one (TI), 2 years of ownership 4 things broke: something broke in turbo assembly (took them 2 months to fix), they couldn't figure, waited for a new one from Italy, leather on the dash broke, sunroof broke, sensor cover fell out.
Before I had 5 years of ownership of Toyota and Honda - 0 things ever broke.
Big difference. But just as big of a difference is the driving experience.
@@Vampire_born_in_2006 But then you have to drive a toyota or a Honda....
Hit the nail on the head. Tesla as a Daily + Manual, Naturally Aspirated Weekend car = Perfect 2 car garage.
Unless you need a truck - that can complicate things. I like the truck + Miata combination with some motorcycles on the side.
Love my Alfa! It’s incredible to drive.
Jason good to hear your comments on the Giulia Quadrofoglio once again. Excellent job on the head to head video with the competition three years ago. Didn't you say in that video review that dynamically the Giulia Quadrofoglio was perfect and the M-3 is a decade behind in dynamics? Jonny Lieberman agreed with you. Derek I relate to your emotional connection to the car. Great hearing you share your thoughts and emotions on the Giulia Quadrofoglio. More importantly, your conclusion that the Tesla Model 3 is what you recommend for others is spot on. It takes a special audience to appreciate the Quadrofoglio. You're in excellent company. (I've driven the Proton Saga. LOL)
On that note, I've had zero issues on a 2018 Quadrofoglio two years on. Earlier 2016/2017 models were pre-production models rushed out for the press journalists and had teething problems with their software. These issues have largely been resolved on later models. FCA spent over 5 billion euros on this bespoke car (based on the Giorgio platform) and rushed this car out in 2.5 years so naturally press models did not have all the bugs resolved. It's not a Lexus but the Lexus does not drive like this Italian beauty (or beast in race mode).
Another moment of silence for the lack of a manual transmission?
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
They not selling any because of depreciation and poor interior compared to competitors. I'm going to wait another 3 years and then buy one for 20k. I'm not worried about reliability, that's a modern myth.
Hi. For me, the show might as well be easily called "95 year old scholar & 12 year old street wise a*** talk cars because they know shit" and I would still watch it like it's my daily prayer. It's so refreshing, educating and passionate that I find myself endlessly craving for more. I only met the same level of passion watching the videos of Chris Harris. You're the only 3 people left around able to talk about cars passionately in an articulate manner, distilling in words complex emotions. And you are geeky mechanics and I love that part too. This is something he doesn't (not on camera, though he seems at least as knowledgeable). The way you complement each other in term of dynamics (I really don't care if there is some sort of a script behind the talk) is very, very, very, very nice. That being said, I congratulate you on the idea, the way you deliver your content and the substance and novelty you still bring to an old subject. THANK YOU! Words cannot express how rewarding it is. It's like going to a veeery fancy restaurant with one item on the menu, never the same, but still the same: extraordinary! A deep, deep feeling of gratitude towards you guys! You're not making me just this day, but all the previous as well.
Thank you for talking about electronic brakes. One of the things I tend to do when driving any car is come to so smooth a stop that the "inertial snap" is either imperceptible or nonexistent. Some of these newer brake-by-wire cars make that impossible to do, and it bothers me to no end. Manufacturers really need to work on that.
They update the software and is much much better now. I owned 2016 Giulia and I cant even tell difference now between normal and elek. brakes. But it is true that l used to it :D
Why doesn’t the Lexus GSF come up in conversation regarding sport sedans? The NA V8, Toyota reliability and oodles of old school character.
It's really not a sports car by any stretch of the imagination.
(Personally i really appreciate the GS -as 450h! That's the right "character" for that yacht and a very appealing package.
However for a sport sedan, in the true sence of the word, there were only bmws for years [decades] until they fattened up. Luckily as of right now, the king is finally back, with the Giulietta / Giulia from the 50ies and 60ies being regarded as the first "sport sedans" and creator of this class of automobile.)
I've got a 2.5 24v busso on my 166 and i can say the between 6 and 7k rpm it has an incredible sound even with stock exhaust.
4:56 fluid dynamics *and* thermogoddamnits?!
Is ISSIMI an accredited university?
I own a Giulia TI q4 ‘19 and I couldn't have made a better choice.
La meccanica delle emozioni, it’true.
Great discussion on how Tesla capitalized on the paradox of choice. I also agree that Jason is correct about California being way ahead technologically but it's California that's killing off manual/ naturally aspirated sports cars with emission regulations.
One of the most interesting videos I've ever seen about the importance of emotion in a car. It is probably no coincidence that I own 2 cars that are both extremely emotional, namely a Giulia Quadrifoglio automatic from 2017 and an Abarth 595C Competizione with manual gearbox from 2019. I use the Abarth for short distances (city, B-roads, mountain trips) and the Giulia for longer distances (usually on the highway) and both perform extremely well in their own area. In terms of emotion, the Abarth is certainly not inferior to the Giulia and even superior at slow speeds. There is no problem whatsoever in terms of reliability: nothing has gone wrong with the Abarth, while the Giulia only needed a software update for the fuel pump. Oh yes, I did replace the weak battery (German made...) to avoid electrical problems. However, if I had to drive up and down to a workplace in traffic jams every day, I would not want to use either car but perhaps switch to an electric car.
This episode was timely. I've been looking at used Guilia Ti variants for the last month. They've dropped as low as ~20K. Of course the reason I'm looking for one is that none of my other 6 Alfa run. I've got 3 164, including two 24 valves, and a GTV6 that is about to get a 3.0 12v swap. Oh, and another 4 Busso V6s as spares...It's a sickness. And, yes, I've looked at the Tesla. It's in my future...but not yet.
Good effort. You need a 166, and a 156 V6 manual. Need. You can thank me later.
A Tesla will be my next car, but rn I have a Giulia TI 2017. Got it used for 25k. I love it so much.
Update on this, fuck the Tesla. Alfa all the way. I’ve driven a model s P85D and the feeling doesn’t compare, it can do 0-60 in 3 but it doesn’t compare to the joy of my 4 cyl alfa. I didn’t expect to feel this way, but over the past year the alfa has stolen my heart.
Jason is a go-to guy for automotive opinion. Entertaining, non-condescending ,enlightening, educating,knowledgeable, and honest. Like that neighbor with a great,multi car,garage you wish you had on a Saturday afternoon. 😊
The Quad electrics were solved when this video was done. I laugh out loud when I drive my QV. My QV is my fav car ever, over several Ferraris, AMG, BMW M, and while I still own two Porsches including a 997.2 GT3 and a 991.1 GTS I would pick the QV over everything, ever.
I know this was from 2020. But hey, most of America can't afford a $74k car. Coming from a 2008 Mazda 3 with 131k on it... So I can relate here. Love my Alfa 2021 Ti Sport and you've explained why. I was drooling over M3s. But got the Alfa instead. Totally wanted a Tesla, but I really wanted something a bit more fun. EV will be next, I'm sure. So this review was great to hear and helped justify my decision.
Derek, I don't know which 2 Alfas you had just because of the Busso V6, but my Busso was not the only reason, it was the design as well. You see, a '96 GTV still looks cool and unique.
Thanks guys for those nice car talks. "Alfa is the best and the rest is shit" or "It's an Alfa or the new way of driving"...I like that kind of arguments. Rare to find (excluding AR forums). But in the way you put it, they're true.
For those interested in Alfa but leery, do yourselves a favor and either buy or lease a 2018 and on Giulia Ti Sport with the performance package (LSD, road dampers). I've had one for two years and it is utter bliss to drive for a relatively reasonable price (mid-40's, though I got an insane discount). Not so much as one hiccup thus far besides one software recall that took one hour at the dealer. The chassis, the handling/steering, the high-end torque, the seating position and of course the looks come together for a brilliant, brilliant car. Every single time I park and get out, I always have to turn around and look at it when I lock up. Can make a mundane errand or commute enjoyable.
I'm also a "fringe" buyer where I care about how emotive the car is and how I feel while driving it or looking at it. What's eye opening is how many people around my age (35) don't care about cars and/or driving experience. It's become a remedial chore. I think they touched upon this in the video where the enthusiasm and passion for cars has slowly been eroding in the last 10-15 years.
Absolutely agree w/you guys! I'll always drive a "driver's car". I own a QV Nring, and I'll try to never drive any boring cars today, including all EV's.
Min 5:34: Jason, next time please in engineers german: "Wandlerüberbrückungskupplung"
Paddles on the column are wrong. If your hands are crossed in a tight corner, why the fuck are you shifting?
Paddles mounted on the column are CONSTANTLY moving in relation to your hands. Paddles on the wheel are perfectly stable and synched with your hands when they are in the 9 and 3 position which they should be in any spirited driving situation.
3yrs later you still can’t conveniently drive an EV moderate distances in huge swaths of the US interior. So tired of CA or NY based journalists touting the advantages of EVs when the real answer is “not yet”.
Watching this a year later as a new Alfa Giulia QV owner and am clapping and cheering every sentence! Cheers guys!
I drove a Model 3 for my birthday, and I was very surprised on how well it handled and how great the steering was for being epas. It was a fun car to drive.
People who don't understand physics and basic economics often miss why the M3 can be such a great car... It is basicallyva mid-engined saloon, with the best consunption/economy of any car currently on sale. Yes, it is possible a Toyota can be cheaper in your 3-10 years having the car. However the Toyota ain't mid-engined...
fun compared to a Corola?
Don’t delude yourselves while the new M’s might suck and all premium sedan options are all closely mediocre as sports sedans, people in Silicon Valley are buying Tesla’s for the same reason they bought M cars, as status symbols. Most people never drive their gas powered sports sedans in a spirited way, in the same way that most people don’t take their stupid fuc#ing SUV off road, this is the new “it” car, so that’s what the douchy tech sociopath and film industry type drives, so everyone else equates them with success. The bigger problem is that every other car is that homogeneous.
I love the way the Alfa looks and drives I hate they aren’t reliable you think they would be coming back to the US!🤯🔫💣
I am with DTS on this one. I will continue to both commute to work and drive for pleasure with my 30+ year old Sciroccos, 25 year old Miata, and 15 year old carbureted sport bikes. I prefer my vehicles to move my soul, not just my body. No mere appliances for me.
Truly honest feelings, insight and discussion. I think it can be summed up in Jason's description of the current M3 i.e. " the 3-Series can go FUCK itself". I really appreciate such visceral and succinct quantification of the vehicle, Thanks Jason.... and Derek too.
Next episode: Personally, I don’t get the hype that super cars such as Lambos and Ferrari’s get. Without a single manual transmission in any super car manufacturers lineup, I feel like modern super car manufacturers don’t prioritize the fun of driving anymore. I’m 13, I’ve never driven any car before, so maybe I am wrong. I’m basing my information on reviewers thoughts with a heavy bias towards Cammisa’s reviews. Most reviewers say that their mouths hurt from smiling while driving a super car such as a Huracán, but I feel like they smile because they know they CAN go fast, but aren’t ACTUAL going fast. I think that you’d have more fun in a simple sports car such as a mx5 or a Toyota 86. Could you explain to me the hype behind modern super cars?
A Balakrishnan
I can definitely see what you mean. To say that those cars are not exciting to drive because they don’t have a manual is a little far fetched, but you have a point.
Also even though you’re not old enough to drive, I feel that your opinion is still valuable just because our generation(ish, I’m 18) is going to have a huge effect on car culture.
You're 100% right about a manual for the Giulia. I'm not buying one only because it's automatic only. I'm an Alfisti and love the Giulia otherwise.
Alfa’s reputation for unreliability is the sole reason they don’t sell.
Agreed. Because they do everything else brilliantly. Doesnt stop me from summer driving a 25 year old highly strung homologation Alfa Romeo sport sedan...and enjoy every minute.
@@ChaosphereIX Yet they aren't unreaible anymore. You going off of 30 year old info. If you try to insinuate that when Alfa released the 2016 Giulia Quadrifoglio and the software glitches as unreliable then you also have to add handful of other manufacturers as well which makes your point moot. When a new platform and 1st year model is released many of the high performance salons have issues that eventually get worked out. The whole thing has been blown out of proportion which is sad since they are brilliant vehicles.
As an alfa owner of several alfas old and new i can tell you thats not true. There's just one rule. Service the car the right way. And there most people go wrong. If you do you service they are really reliable.
I am holding onto my 2018 WRX manual simply because there is no other choice in the price range that can replace that. Manual 4door with AWD and good gas millage is very rare these days.
Why would you want a manual when yoy can get a car with one gear?
@@rkan2 you wouldnt get it.
Not sure if it's just this video, but the sound was very hard to hear. It's a talk show, I can't hear the talk. So it's just a show.
I'm an old Carmudgeon nice to see Jason give V6 engines some praise, most people hate them. Me being the old & poor carmudgeon that I am has never experienced any of these new/er cars/electric, the newest car I've ever owned/driven was an 06 Toyota Tacoma quadcab 4x4. My Tacoma was a nice truck, but I hated the drive by wire throttle, I could "confuse" the computer by getting on and off the throttle too fast for it, if the right rear tire slipped on ice, a Man Hole cover, etc, while taking a right turn it would confuse the computer and wouldn't let the truck "go" until it had traction again, truck had little computer quirks I didn't like, computers are suppose to be fast, but I sometimes found myself waiting for the computer to make up it's mind. Give me drive by cable throttle, mechanical steering and an 7 speed manual trans, that I can drive, not some computer! YES I said 7 speed manual trans, I want to row them gears!
I owned a Suzuki DR 350 dual sport, it was a 6 speed bike, I still found myself wishing I had another gear at highway speeds.
I'd probably buy something like an Alfa, I like that turbo V6, if they made it in a manual trans and I could afford it, but I can't afford something like that....
So I drive a 78 Datsun king cab 620 pickup with a built Buick v6 engine swap, 2004r overdrive trans(wished it was manual), 411:1 rear gears, dual exhaust, front/rear anti sway bars, good tires shocks, front air dam, built it myself, it outruns about half of what's out there, surprises many people, sounds good, is a blast to drive, never gets me tickets, cause it seems to "confuse" the cops, It's a total sleeper, they look at it and scratch their heads, they "can't believe it was going that fast" that's good enough for me. ;)
you guys should check out mountainpass performance. they do some really cool things with tesla. No engine noise still, but drifting in silence is still pretty cool :)
There's a couple of problems with the Model 3 - one of them is that's uglier than sin. The other is that the interior is worse. Let's hope someone that can design cars brings out an EV so we can have a good car and not have to hide our eyes when we get near it.
But, isn't part of the attraction of the Model3 is that it *does* provide a different experience compared to almost anything else? Tesla is flawed but unique in a works where the alternatives are interchangable.
Bought a Giulia QV last year and it’s everything they say along with it’s quirks. Great deal used with a warranty. The warranty gives piece of mind. And do your own service where possible! Check out my driving video on my other channel @californiaclover
They're missing the BS Button. I saw many opportunities for it's activation.
Great episode! I have a ‘17 Giulia Ti Lusso, ‘18 Model 3 LR, and a from new ‘92 164S.
What I really want is a Giulia with the Busso and manual. That would be sublime!
Hey I like my M340i! The Model is so soulless in my opinion, but I get it's appeal. My G20 might be a fast luxo barge now, but I still enjoy my commute. FYI - you see quite a few M cars in the Phoenix metro. Almost the same amount as Teslas.
Talk more about tge Alfa 4C. Unfortunate it gets so mucb hate
I have driven the manual Giulia! And the manual was terrible!
As a person who’s currently shopping for a used Giulia, the wait for a fun to drive electric car that is not an isolation tank continues.
Jason we need a review on the GTA when it comes out
Exactly
I feel when this was recorded the Giulia GTA wasn't announced
Think of it this way: For the giulia, the emotional gratification is immediate, while the throttle response is gradual. For the tesla, the throttle response is immediate, but the emotional gratification is gradual. Electrics started out weird to me but damn, I have a model 3 dual motor performance and by the week the thing induces laughs far more than the week before. It's hard to explain, but It's more understanding the different language that electrics use to deliver the thrills. We know where to find the excitement in gasoline vehicles, but for electrics it takes some getting used to. Now I can appreciate both. (The other vehicle is a heavily modded turbo thing running on E85)
Hmm... interesting. I really like the Giulia and showed no interest in purchasing. Model 3 on the other hand, I've considered strongly.
Hydraulic racks have had variable ratios cut into them for a long time, so when you're on center you get one slow ratio for low speed/parking/cruising stability and another ratio near the ends of the rack that's faster.
True, although as i understand it, he was not talking about the ratio, but the assistance. (how light, heavy you have to work to turn the wheel) But that also was done already with hydraulic steering. I have owned one that did that, and still own another one that has hydraulic power steering with variable assitance depending on the speed.
Alfa needs to stand out more than they already do - in typical Alfa fashion they have a perfect recipe but only cook it 90%. They need glorious na engine noise, dump the turbos, and a manual transmission. Not much else needed for the Giulia other than maybe some reliability baked in...
Jason is right that all sport sedans are the same these days. AWD/RWD, twin turbo V6/V8, various states of tune, fast shifting automatic transmissions, and lots of tech inside. They are all essentially the same.
I drive an Alfa sport sedan - lightweight, Busso V6, direct steering, manual transmission. That is the basic recipe
Manual trans in the 4C. Rich man's Miata. Who would be up for that?
@@dougrobinson8602 I would for sure. True Alfas are manual. My 155 V6 ONLY came in a manual, as God intended.
So include a manual even though less than 8% of there potential customers are willing to buy one. There is a reason why many sporty car manufacturers don't even give the option for manual anymore. It's not financially feasible.
Thanks for putting this show together guys. I've enjoyed watching through the back catalogue of both the Carmudgeon and Care & Feeding shows. Very informative and the cheekiness is fun.
Absolutely have no problem with Alfa breaks
Where is the BS button?
It looks like a like button but its upside down
Go Alfa. I dislike iPhone Tesla
You're still wrong about the paddles, Jason. Your right hand is always your right hand, your left hand is always your left hand, and if you're than crossed up, you shouldn't be shifting anyway. Nearly all real racecars have the paddles on the wheel. Open-wheelers, LMPs, GT racers, ad nauseam.
If BMW made the quadrifoglio it would have sold better. But it hasn't, because Alfa has had such a bad reputation for BOTH reliability & service for a car that is supposed to be a daily driver. Nobody wants to chance having their daily in the shop for 3 weeks . At least BMW dealers have service depts that work?
If you don't park in a garage with an outlet you can charge with any time you want then an electric car seems impractical.
For sure.
But for those that do - and that includes alot of folk that live in an apartment buildings - they are super practical.
(I mean obviously surfboards are only practical when they are at the beach - but that alone doesn’t make them good or bad).
I've lived in illinois and Ohio. There are teslas everywhere and there have been since the company launched the model s.
@kieran finney you're right! Maintenance is a huge problem with teslas for now. But in the future it won't be. You're also right that you shouldn't be hauling horses across country with a Tesla. You're also right that you'd have to stop to charge from illinois to Florida. In the last case I'd argue that if you're driving alone in that time, you should probably pull over and sleep. And even if you're not, maybe you should go to the bathroom or grab some food. Anyway everything you've said has nothing to do with my original comment. Thanks!
@kieran finney I stated that there have been lots of teslas in illinois and ohio since the model s was released. Nothing you said changes that...and I'm not sure why you think it does. To call it a city car must be a joke. Yes it is better for people who LIVE in cities (because theres better access to super chargers). But their use goes far beyond the city given 300 miles of range. Yes you would have to stop and charge, which may result in longer stops than you, in particular, are used to. But to say that prevents their use in road trips is a very narrow view. A person who owns a tesla can spend less money over the life of the vehicle than someone who buys something else. Here's a somewhat bad example one of my friends recently thought through: he makes payments in a Tacoma. If he bought a tesla at the same time, paying the same interest rate, he'd have paid for the difference in price through the money saved in gas by the time the 5 year loan was done. Now obviously this varies depending on what you drive, and how much you drive, but it is not always more expensive to own a tesla. I spend a lot of time driving through the countryside, past tens of thousands of acres of farms. Yes, most people in these areas own pickup trucks, but they also own sedans. Why not a Tesla instead?
I live in Western NY and there are a ton of Teslas all over the place.
@kieran finney you must be a troll. Goodbye
kieran finney very long road trips definitely take longer in an EV, but don’t generally require much extra driving distance, given the number of Superchargers along major highways.
To answer Derek's question "Why would anyone buy anything but a Tesla?" Simple, loads of people live in situations where they cannot charge their car at home, and Tesla starts sending you nasty emails if you use the Superchargers too much. I live in apartments. I currently have a large garage next to my apartment, which is unusual. My garage actually has power outlets, but I have no control over the circuit breakers, and I have no doubt using those outlets to charge an electric car would get me in trouble. So no electric cars for me.
Don't spread the BS. You MIGHT get those emails, when charging your Model S with unlimited supercharging only from your closest supercharger. The Model 3 doesn't come with free supercharging, so you won't be getting those emails regardless on what Supercharger you charge. You would only get credit card charges with the Model 3.
Then again, charging with residential electricity rates is a big part of the cost savings in an EV, so it is understandable for people who cannot charge at home. Especially goes for countries with expensive electricity or cheap fossil fuels.
@@rkan2 Where did I complain about the cost? I said I have nowhere to reliably plug it in. And loads of people live in dwellings without any way to install charging equipment. You Tesla freaks always get bent out of shape about the most trivial shit. It is 100% true that they have sent emails to lots of owners about using the Supercharger too much. How is it BS if you admit that they do it? insideevs.com/news/328361/tesla-sends-out-supercharger-abuse-emails-many-model-s-owners-not-impressed/
Such a shame that its uploaded right before im going to bed! Now i have to think the whole night about what youve talked! But now tomorrow is going to be a good day!
You're doing Giulia a disservice, particularly non-QV versions by saying it's pretty much only for enthusiasts. They really do drive better than anything out there that costs less than twice the price or more. One can't really know that unless they try. Sure you can get much better engine in BMW but you pay much more at that point and it still handles worse. Model 3 Performance rides great actually (and substantially different to not be comparable) and has insane performance, but electric is not for everyone and interior is similarly quirky, for example you trade much better parking cameras for ultrasonic sensors, or better cooling for physical controls etc. Compared to BMW? Sure it feels more more luxurious, but at the same time you get that ugly glossy plastic, colorful LED lights and tablet first interface which kind of looks cool in the pictures and I'm sure sells better in China, but in real life is not really impressive. And again, you pay lots for those gadgets. Giulia is pure - it has almost everything you need (except for decent rear camera, wireless carplay and ventilated seats) and nothing you don't - it's very good.
Would the ats-v sedan 6mt not compare to the Giulia or is the way it drives too different.
People are definitely scared of buying the Alfa from a reliability standpoint. I brought up the urge to get one and the spam of articles people posted telling me not to buy it was insane. I'm still teeter tottering on buying one.
Alfa unreliability is an old school myth. I owned a E39 540i and it was so much more less reliable than my QV. Took the plunge on a QV last year. Just do it, you won’t regret it, if you like spirited canyon driving.
I have a 2019 Giulia QV and a 2014 Ferrari Cali. The speed of auto tranny on the Giulia is not that much different than the DCT on the Ferrari, if anything, slightly faster. There is a good reason why BMW, Aston Martin, etc are all using the same transmission. I bet it's more reliable and cheaper to replace.
Ironically, the best sports sedan I can think of that's not a Giulia, is the Honda Civic Si in my driveway. When I bought it at the end of '18 I was shopping for 3 months for a sporty car that had at optimally at least 4 doors. I was immediately disappointed by the BRZ/86. Ford's hatchbacks were quick but didn't feel good to drive (and the RS costs waaayyyy too much for my budget), besides Alfo Romeo's Giulia QV (which I couldn't afford) the only other place I could think of was Honda which at the time I despised. I finally gave up and test drove the only Manual transmissioned car on their lot which was a 2018 Civic Si sedan in Black (I ordered Red). I was surprised at the roominess of it being a tall 6' 3" and the practicality of the car. Big trunk, space for 5 adults (as long as the back seaters are less than 6'), a highway rating of 38mpg (currently averaging 40-42mpg/per tank) and the shifter is so much fun to row, it's light, nimble, and handles just as well as the Type R. Yes I have driven a Type R, amazing to drive, but with $1700 of wheels and tires, I know have a lighter, wider set of traction than the Type R, which performs better. I'm only missing the extra 100 horsepower which is not worth an extra $10,000.
You guys should do a show talking while driving a car sometime.
Ive thought about this but i think it would just another 'terrible driver' episode if they did, and the guy who does the beep over expletives would earn overtime.
Thanks, I love this channel!
That function on the washing machine that dries and folds is called..... wife.
......but its super f.... expensive and not worth the price. 🤣😂😂💥🤬
I disagree....cars haven't been perfected. There's a reason BMW's are under-steering unemotional steaming piles of shit with not only inaccurate, but poor steering feel. Electric cars are not Tesla....there are MANY other electric cars. SUV's are just a natural progression of cars useful functionality and comfort. Sports cars and SUV's can exist. Also society goes through cycles. Did you notice how the Model 3 is a sedan?
Hard not to agree with you guys on this one.
Do an episode on the best station wagons!!!!!
When something breaks on your car, the moment that you fix the car it becomes your act of love to that car, and especially if you fix it yourself. You just bonded with your car. Now that cars are so reliable that bonding moment is gone.
When I used to go to this really good go-cart place north west of Boston, they had old open wheel cars that had been detuned, and I would save my money to drive them. When I got back to my CRX Si the feeling I got was OMG my (new) CRX Is turned into a Luxury 1980's boat (Buick, Cadillac, etc)
The first Tesla's I drove felt like freaking go-carts, so I'm not sure about the isolation tanks comment. I think in some ways the character of cars has been reduced to the styling. I look at a polestar 2 and my mind says it should drive a certain way, and it's like it doesn't drive what it looks like. We have all of these beautiful cars now, that don't have character to back up the way that they look.
Remember when Honda used to use double wishbone suspensions on all of its cars? I feel like Honda lost its soul when those wishbones went away. I put that there because that still makes me sad....
I really loved this conversation and thanks for posting it on TH-cam!!!
Sorry for coming to the party Very late, but just my .02 cents to add to the well of comments.
I have a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Jason is right. I have 2013 Audi S5 Cabriolet for some fun and a 2001 BMW 540i 6 Speed for the anachronism. I have to say, I'm starting to see into the emotional quotient of the Tesla which is more subtle. Things like track mode and other factors evolve in the Tesla, the car has been becomes more individualistic. The aftermarket for this car has exploded and that is part of the emotional quotient.
Love watchin these episodes but come on Jason. Torque converters are more then fluid couplings. Fluid couplings do not have a stator and thus can not multiply torque. Torque convertors with their stator provide torque multiplication right up to the point where impeller speed meets turbine speed (also known as coupling speed). At this point the "lock up" torque convertor "locks up".
Plus a DCT is NOT an "automatic transmission". DCT's are a form of automated manual transmission.
Love all the stuff you guys do. Wish you would do more "Head 2 Head" type stuff. Loved your H2H episodes! All the best to you guys and your future projects!
What's the resale value of tesla with battery pack down to under 50%? For spare parts maybe? Makes sense. Just dump money into EV and when battery pack dies, good luck. ICE can be maintained and fixed by almost any mechanic. And the car can be sold. No one talks about this, a shame really.
I cannot... CANNOT believe this has 33k views. It should be twenty times this number.
Not any EV for me until fossil fuels aren't exist any more. Natural gas is the cleanest-cheapest fuel on existence since hydrogen is very expensive yet. I am OK with mild hybrids also. As for sport sedans, Mazda's RWD straight-6 is coming also.
Late watching this but, how did price not come up when talking Accord/Camry/Tesla? Is it just Canada where the Model 3 base is $30,000 more than the other two?
Well, if DTS is a fringe customer, so am I. If you own a sports car, why drive anything else? And if you drive something else, why not get a sports car? But I did daily drive an S2000 for several years in my 50s.
Tesla is spreading out quickly! I live in a small of 30,000ish and once we got a Tesla charging station they have shown up in droves!
I'm sorry but Derek T-S's dry,crackling, tone of voice is too irritating for extended video use.🤐😫
I bought a 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance after listening to this segment…sold it after 5 months because it was too boring and could make no connection to it. Performance in the Northeast (cold weather) was also terrible. Just bought a low mile Giulia QV :D
That VR6 sound was shockingly good