First of all, you look great and much younger, I just pulled the same move and now have a baby face (according to me). Second what's all this crap about Alfa unreliability?! For both old and new, my father in law's Camaro spends more time in the garage than my Alfa spider ever did and I haven't heard anyone having problems with Giulia and Stelvio. I'm saving for a QV, you think that's a bad idea??
Derick’s recommendation is the game I’ve played with nearly two dozen cars in my life. Buy the car, around three years old - and often 50%+ depreciated. Own it for a few years and lose very little money. My current f-type R had 11k miles on it and I paid less than half the new price.
@@abalakrishnan4152 for a lot of them yes. I bought a new Fiesta ST when they where new and I don't regret that at all. I wanted to buy a new Camaro SS 1LE ~this year, but I hate the new front end, so I'll probably buy a used 2018.
16:18 intial value 56,000$, value after three years 20,000$. Delta: 36,000$ over three years. So far so good. But thats 36,000$ over 36 month an so 1,000$ a month, not 300$. But that's just the math. Great episode. Got me thinking about a lot of things I wasn't aware of till now (:
This was honestly the best hour I've ever spent listening/watching automotive critique. I'm an idiot and bought a brand new M2 Competition (no, I'm not a high paid doctor that needs to be at work), but am hyper aware of all of the e36, e30s, etc, I could've bought with the down payment + payments over years (because I've owned a few). Though I absolutely love my M2, it's hard to say I made the right decision. This Show's end (while on topic) was very akin to the episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia "Mac Finds His Pride" - an unexpected finale that, in hindsight, was a forgone conclusion when considering the level of talent involved in the development of the show. But, for some reason, the majority of insight and perspective shines through in only a few precious minutes and still catches you very much off guard. Thank you both for being pensive but realistic, and hilarious but thoughtful, in all of your critiques. ...also, Sandler looks 10 years younger or I lease my car for $3800 a month and you're a moron Cammisa. You're welcome, buds. Please continue doing what you're doing.
I'm an idiot as well, and my 2018 Giulia Quad, no lease, but payments are ~$950/month. Love the car, but try not to think too much on the depreciation. On the other hand, my 2002 525IT (wagon), $5000. Love them both.
Why, if you don't mind sharing, did buying the M2 make you feel like an idiot? all the reviewers seem to love it. Did you just take a bath on the monthly payment?
Way to go Hyphen knowing the Johnny Cash song "One Piece at a Time"! Leases only work as (I understand) if: 1-you plan to get a brand new car every 3ish yrs 2-you drive low miles each year 3-you like fast depreciating cars that require catastrophic repairs immediately after the warranty expires...so you wouldn't want to own it
2015 M3 $71k MSRP. $650 down and $1050/mo. for 36 mos. and 45k total miles. I put 35-40 track days over that time and used it for some daily use as well (I have an alternate low-cost sedan I own as well). I feel happy with the value that I got over those years. It gave me no trouble and fit my needs perfectly as a "no-trailer track car."
pretty much all $80k plus cars have a lease price north of $1k/month if you put little to no money down. A $399 lease as Jason suggests barely gets you in a lease special stripped down A-Class after you put like 3 grand down...
@@iBoos1 liar. $950 a month that would be just 11400 a year. The dealer would need to lease it out for 9 years to get the money back. You had to pay a hefty down first, the car was also heavily discounted thanks to the covid situation.
@@DonLee1980 Thanks for calling me a liar, but i don't think you understand how leases work. If they would need to lease it out for 9 years, that would be called financing. Yes, it was discounted, that's why i said $105k MSRP. Also it was 0 down. 3 year lease.
I personally do not like that A class or the CLA. The C klasse is the only "entry level" compact sedan I would even consider from Mercedes line up but of course a C klasse is not exactly "entry level" price at north of 40K
iBoos that seems to line up with what Jason was saying. 4 series depreciation is some 44 percent (not necessarily your version) over 3 years. You are paying 34K over the 3 year lease. With 44 percent depreciation calculated from MSRP the actual residual would be about 59K, or about 46K in actual depreciation. That’s a 12K gap. I imagine that some of it is made up by the version you have but it seems like the dealer is going to be stuck with the approach Jason outlined. I would say you got quite a deal! Well done.
Love your work .Here is some perspective for you, in Australia we pay about $170k full retail, so do the math over four or five years, it's a world of pain down here. Worse still a 2017 Guilia with 2k miles will drop to 100k!. You either have to have so much cash that you don't care or want the car so bad that it doesn't matter anyway. Unfortunately I fall into category 'B' , happy to be financially violated to be able to enjoy a great car. This is my burden. Truly enjoying the channel.
I found an Oxford Green 1995 750iL for $750 because the gentleman thought it needed a transmission. Just a battery! Thank you depreciation. It's been my daily driver for the past two years and 27,000 miles.
I honestly have to say this has been one of my favorite episodes so far. I fully admit I am or have been the type of person you guys make fun of with my car life and purchases. This episode really opened my eyes and I'm appreciate the knowledge you guys bestow on us.
@@nathanchildress5596 Let's....get...Hyphyyyyy!!!! "OK so let me tell you how Lancia in the 1920s was just the _best_ thing since sliced bread (sliced bread having been invented the previous winter)"
This was great guys! Really good insight on the lease-buy situation that I was not too familiar with. I ended up buying my car since I want to keep it for a long long time.
I'm on my 2nd Giulia lease. Both have not been QV models however. My first lease was $325/mo including tax, and this 2019 Giulia lease is $350/mo including tax. I love the car. The first lease was a 24 mo lease, but this one is a 39 mo lease. So far with both cars, I've not had one single issue or repair. There has been a couple re-mappings of the computers, but no mechanical issues of any nature. These cars are great cars, get exceptional gas mileage with 280 bhp and 0-60 in 5 seconds. Made in Italy with incredible styling. I still can't believe how poorly they've been accepted in the US market. People are truly missing out on a special car. (and I've owned 71 cars since 1974) I always wonder Jason, if you are related to the Cammisa motors car dealer in San Mateo CA?
Agreed, great cars. I have a Ti Sport and it’s been trouble free one year and 12k miles in. But don’t get great gas mileage - in city driving, in eco mode, with not heavy traffic, I get in the high teens according to the computer (much worse than the EPA rating). Also didn’t lease it for as little as you did :(
Since the car has been relatively reliable, and you like it so much would you consider buying one, or are you someone who leases all of the time? Also is your current Giulia the 2020 and are the improvements mostly in the infotainment system significant, do you think the car is a good second hand car to buy off lease?
The math at 16:10 does not add up. Scenario 1: $56,000 car Worth $20,000 at the end of 3 years Person must pay the $36,000 delta in 36 months. 36,000/36 is a $1000 monthly payment. Scenario 2 $56,000 car Worth $30,000 at the end of 3 years Person must pay the $24,000 delta in 36 months $24,000/36 is a $666.67 monthly payment I’ve lease a couple of cars now, and I’m not sure how anybody is leasing a $60,000+ car (like the X5s, GLEs, and other mid-tier luxury models that are commonly leased) for the $500 a month that Jason suggested is “normal”. Even on the leasehackr forums, that’s unheard of. Short of it being some high mileage demo/loaner car, putting a ton of money down (not advised when leasing), or just getting a ton off of MSRP. A $300-$500 lease payment is more typical of base C classes, base 3 series, and base Guilias (e.g. cars that are $40,000 and under)
Agreed. Figures aren’t representative. I leased my manual GTI base with plaid seats. Got a great deal during the Dieselgate scandal and that was $295/m with $1500 down. Not $209 as suggested. Still fun to listen to!
So in the US it isn't usual to have to pay a certain summ before the rates? In Europe in most lease cases for a 40 000€ car you might pay 5-8 000€ (if i remember correct) and then you pay rates, so the delta is broken up into a first payment and the rates.
nirfz in the US, there are may be some fees at the start of the lease for tax, title, registration, dealer handling fee and other lease start fees, but these are much less than what you have in the EU if I am understanding you correctly. It’s not uncommon to sign a lease, pay the first month’s lease payment and drive away.
@@frontranger Ah, no, i was not talking about taxes (which i guess are higher in the EU). What i meant is that the difference betwen the new value and the expected value at the end of the lease, is not just divided into rates, but a certain payment at the beginning and rates. This means the rates look smaller, but that is due to the initial payment upfront. And to this day i never found a lease contract here, that would have been cheaper than to buy the car for the normal price. (if you have the money. That is the whole reason people in my country even consider leasing) It is different if you have a company and the car is for company use, because the payments can be made from the income before taxes. (so you basically pay less income taxes too) Not the case for private cars.
@@nirfz we have that here, that's the "down payment" that keeps getting referred to, but it sounds like it's less than what you are paying where you live.
Lol, this is one of the reasons I love the car commentators and the car community. 99% of people need a thing that gets them from point A to point B as reliably as possible without huge consumable costs (gas, breaks, etc. not talking TCO here) and in relative comfort and sometimes even style. These same 99% do not have the time or inclination to shop around for months/years, visit notaries, nor do they have unrestricted access to tens of thousands of dollars of rainy day car money. They are willing to pay X amount on a steady basis for this. A lease is a way they achieve these goals with as little hassle as possible. To most people cars are tools that cost money in exchange for a result. Getting an new tool every 2-3 years, instead of every 5 to 6 years (where that tool might lose some of it's reliability,) seems to be a logical decision when you consider the goals. They would never think of a car as investments. And the fact that you guys can't understand how someone would NOT see a car as an investment shows just how far from the norm you are. Legitimately makes me smile.
I love leasing. I am a car fanatic and am ocd about my cars looking and feeling perfect the whole time I own them. I used to buy a new car pay on it until the break even point then trade on a new car. This always keeps me under warranty and I always have cars that drive at the way they are designed to. When the rattles start and things start getting loose on the car I am at the trade in point. I have always had a car payment, the beauty of what leasing has done for me is that instead of me having a $490 per month payment on a 30k Mazda 6 I now can lease a luxury car for closer to $450 per month. I get more car for my $. The other perc is leases include gap insurance. If someone hits and totals my lease I walk away from the car, owe 0 money and just go lease another car. I never have to worry about depreciation on the car I choose. , the bank is on the hook if the residual is higher than the cars actual value. You can still buy the car @ the end of a lease, it doesn't cost you any more than if u bought it new you just refinance the balance of the initial loan (residual). In a normal loan I got hit by a drunk driver, when my car was 9 months old, my car was totalled and I still owed 6k more than the insurance company paid for my total loss.
So for me I am paying a monthly subscription for an experience, I have friends that spend more at the bar on a weekend, or on golfing for the month. I get 28, 30 or 31 days a month of enjoyment with a nice car. It's all in the way each individual looks at the expense.
I am a car fanatic! I know what I want in a car, I know how I want it.. and thats it. Leasing... is to just to make sure you keep paying someone for that pile of rental out front. Mine is 20yrs old and you could find it in a FIRE. It does what I tell it to... and nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with them and I spend my money on old cars. But if I was making 100k a month, spending 2-3k a month on a car lease doesn't sound that crazy and outrageous.
When I worked at the dealer BMW, VW, Porsche, Audi.. the parts manager told me they make a 87% mark up on parts.. he showed me a example of a converter that was 1200 dollars list but only cost them 275.. thus was about 15yrs ago but yikes!! Keep up the great content love the show
I worked for a tier 1 automotive supplier. Back when the Nissan Qashqai came out i went to a dealer to buy a condenser for ~$800 to benchmark. Nissan buys that part from their supplier for $20.
Loved this discussion. The car enthusiast market often focuses so hard on only buying used cars (for reasons you stated such as undesired depreciation), but as the used market continues to heat up, we've been losing cool new cars because there's no 'demand' for them. A hot used car market is doomed to collapse on itself over time...absolutely need people to buy/lease new cars.
Exactely! Somebody has to buy new cool cars so they can get into the used market. While saying that, i too never bought a new car in my 22 years of driving.
You guys are so interesting and fun to watch. I thank you for all your work!! Please please don't stop delivering about vehicles in any other way or dumb shit down. I appreach all your honesty slurrs and all
I’m a CFP and a car guy, so this was a great read. Especially since I’m a Alfa owner and there’s a thread on the Giulia forums debating lease/ownership. The idea of buying used was the route I went, though I skipped the QV and focused my money on what I enjoy most... modifications! Sure, that doesn’t help resell, but it’s cheaper than spending double on the QV. That, and I’m still holding only to my 03 BMW 3 Series after 15 years of ownership.
The "paying toward an asset" (versus depreciation) would apply mostly toward the purchase of a used car which has already depreciated. Purchasing a new car typically would be partially paying toward depreciation like a lease would. This video was an interesting discussion and food for thought.
All cars start out new. Us car people, who would much rather buy an older car that won't depreciate, wouldn't be able to do so if others didn't spend (waste) all their money on depreciation to buy or lease new vehicles. Let's just be grateful those people exist so that we can continue to benefit from a great used car market.
This may not be on your radar at all but Dodge has some crazy lease specials on their Hellcats. 599 - 699 a month is not unusual. I was given a 649 a month price on a 76K Challenger Hellcat with less than perfect credit and no money down.
Drove Saab’s for 25 years, all bought used, there depreciation is crazy like 60% after three years. Always 1500$ of mods, rechip with a bit of suspension nothing crazy. Would drive them for 10 to 12 years and actually really reliable if you just keep up with the maintenance .My monthly cost was around 150 a month all in. Now driving a Jetta, my Saab was much better.😊
I don't know how it works for everyone, but at Audi (where I work), at least end we have the option to buy out the car, but if its not equitable to do so, we punt it back to Audi who then sell it at an auction. So it's the manufacturer taking the hit if the estimated residual is off, not the dealers (thankfully).
As the inventory manager at a Ford dealer, we are not required to buy the lease return. It's an option, yes, but Ford will also haul it to a wholesale auction and sell it. We're not financially tied to that car at all. Other manufacturers may be different, though.
Interesting that $250 is considered the basic transportation floor for leasing, including a $1000 down payment. I have roughly $2000 that's been tied up in "investment" on my daily driver. Insurance is less than $40 per month. Maintenance is bout $500 annually as I do it myself. That's about $100 monthly? The few times my car has had a failure to start I was able to fix it with hand tools on the spot. I've never blown up an engine. Seems like learning to do my own maintenance has effectively been saving me $150 monthly. Awesome!
Good episode! I love cars but they can be super expensive. I've had my 2000 E55 & 1977 450SL for about 5 years & total spent is under $23k (purchase, insurance, repair, etc). I think that's not bad all things considered. If I needed a real daily, I'd find an early Honda Fit with sport bits and the 6 speed manual. Jason & Hyphen are going grey with the hair?
Have you guys driven an e12 BMW. When I was 12 my father had an 81 528i and I absolutely loved that car. I wish he had handed down to me instead of selling it. Can't find one now days .
You guys talk about a Quadrifoglio a few years old for $45k. Take a good look at the market - a 3-yr-old QV goes for something like $60k. To get down to $45k you have to be looking at the first year (2017) model.
So, I was looking at leasing a Alfa Romeo QV that was a lot dust collector (one year on the lot). We were down to $600/month for a 36m/12k lease, but the deal fell apart because I demanded a pre-purchase inspection on the car, since I was going to have to fly down to pick up the car and I didn't trust that the dealer maintained the car while it was just sitting there looking pretty, and they wouldn't allow a local Ferrari/Maserati mechanic to do an inspection of it.
Jason I agree... USD 1'200/mo *spent* in depreciation is A LOT for a Giulia QF ! But also, you said it "we only live once"... so if one can afford it why not get the stupid Aston, or M6... they have the benefit of making you appreciate the E46 and E60 you also kept in your garage :-)
The next time my dad points at a McLaren and asks me what car it is (he's mildly interested in cars, but not like me) I will tell him its depreciation on wheels.
So simply stated always get the M version of a BMW or the GT version of any 911 or cayman. As they do not depreciate at the same rate and likely will be a stabilized price?
Holy sh*t, I just fully realized why I dig you guys more than most other car guy talk shows... You’re Bay Area folks, as opposed to most others, who are usually from LA (of those who are CA-based). That very real cultural gap accounts for much of why I really enjoy the tenor and rhythm and sensibilities of this show, and why the LA-based stuff just starts to annoy me after only a few minutes of listening.
Maybe i understood something wrong, but to rent an Alfa in this range in europe you pay around 500€ for a weekend (!) with quite limited included km's. I found two sites, one from germany and one from switzerland, and for a month with a quadrofoglio you are between 3000 and 7000€. So i think the 1200$ aren't that much. Remember for a Lease you have a certain summ that you pay at first and then the rates (at least here in europe).
Super entertaining and informative! So with Jason’s logic my lease is only 400 (with subtracted 200 base). I feel pretty good about my purchase. I’m a young idiot and leased a Giulia TI when they first landed in the US. No regrets. I’ve owned a lot of cool sports/ sporty cars (Thanks Mom) and the Giulia is objectively and subjectively (touchy feely) car I’ve ever owned and driven since. I want to get an M2 (Manual) after my lease but the steering and handling balance was not quite there for me :/
53:47 @kadorikrunch Thanks! I was guessing it was somehow related to dulling spray used in productions to take off reflections or shine. So, I was totally off the mark, except that drama spray and dulling spray might be in the same kit. [Not really: art dept or lighting would have dulling spray, while FX would have the atmo/haze.]
Old video I know, but these guys live in a different world. Most people do not pay 3-500 a month. 1100 is slightly steep but without a hefty downpayment that is normal for a 60k vehicle.
You think that’s bad? A coworker bought a C8 Corvette a year ago, base model with no extra options, for $92,000. Bro spends $1500 a month before insurance on this car. His previous vehicle was a Maserati Ghibli with the F154…that he traded in a fully optioned, vadered out C7 ZR1 to buy.
The other factor on lease vs purchase is that on a lease you pay sales with each payment, whereas on a purchase (either finance or cash) you pay all the sales tax up front. So if you lease with a residual of 50% of the sales price, you pay half the tax that you would if you bought and then sold it.
Really wishing I had watched this before signing a $1600/month (CAD) 3 year lease for a 2024 Giulia QV Carbonio. Wait no I don’t. Last gas powered QV, and only 65 in this trim. Totally buying it out and this will be the last enthusiast car I buy.
I'd like to see more content on Total Cost of Ownership? Which expensive used car has surprisingly low Total Cost of Ownership? which cheap car is expensive?
Fifty bucks says all the Sandler comments will be replaced with "what happened to his face?!" Thanks, Hyphen, for making me self-conscious. Jerk.
JasonCammisa 😂
you have so many cool shirts. I remember seeing Pininfarina, mahindra racing, civic type r in the collection. I am actually jealous.
More like "What happened to Adam Sandler's face?"
Why do you have a bald spot on your right? Did you cut it wrong? Not trying to be offensive, also Derek has a ton of white hairs on is pompadour.
First of all, you look great and much younger, I just pulled the same move and now have a baby face (according to me). Second what's all this crap about Alfa unreliability?! For both old and new, my father in law's Camaro spends more time in the garage than my Alfa spider ever did and I haven't heard anyone having problems with Giulia and Stelvio. I'm saving for a QV, you think that's a bad idea??
Derick’s recommendation is the game I’ve played with nearly two dozen cars in my life. Buy the car, around three years old - and often 50%+ depreciated. Own it for a few years and lose very little money. My current f-type R had 11k miles on it and I paid less than half the new price.
Oh man, how I wish this was still possible.
That game is OVERRR
You seem to overlook the notion that SOMEONE has to lease and buy new cars so that we can buy them after they have depreciated.
The trouble is that people looking for enthusiast cars automatically go to the used market.
@@abalakrishnan4152 for a lot of them yes.
I bought a new Fiesta ST when they where new and I don't regret that at all.
I wanted to buy a new Camaro SS 1LE ~this year, but I hate the new front end, so I'll probably buy a used 2018.
Always plenty of fashion victims out there.
I'm sorry, but I did actually jump in my chair a bit when Jason's face welcomed me.
Who’s the new guy? Oh, & respectfully submitted for Hyphe’s new sidekick: Charmudgeon.
Key Words to a Carmudgeon podcast. BMW, Alfa, Mercedes, Visceral, Ferrari 308 and VW
16:18 intial value 56,000$, value after three years 20,000$. Delta: 36,000$ over three years. So far so good. But thats 36,000$ over 36 month an so 1,000$ a month, not 300$.
But that's just the math. Great episode. Got me thinking about a lot of things I wasn't aware of till now (:
This was honestly the best hour I've ever spent listening/watching automotive critique. I'm an idiot and bought a brand new M2 Competition (no, I'm not a high paid doctor that needs to be at work), but am hyper aware of all of the e36, e30s, etc, I could've bought with the down payment + payments over years (because I've owned a few). Though I absolutely love my M2, it's hard to say I made the right decision. This Show's end (while on topic) was very akin to the episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia "Mac Finds His Pride" - an unexpected finale that, in hindsight, was a forgone conclusion when considering the level of talent involved in the development of the show. But, for some reason, the majority of insight and perspective shines through in only a few precious minutes and still catches you very much off guard. Thank you both for being pensive but realistic, and hilarious but thoughtful, in all of your critiques.
...also, Sandler looks 10 years younger or I lease my car for $3800 a month and you're a moron Cammisa. You're welcome, buds. Please continue doing what you're doing.
I'm an idiot as well, and my 2018 Giulia Quad, no lease, but payments are ~$950/month. Love the car, but try not to think too much on the depreciation. On the other hand, my 2002 525IT (wagon), $5000. Love them both.
Why, if you don't mind sharing, did buying the M2 make you feel like an idiot? all the reviewers seem to love it. Did you just take a bath on the monthly payment?
@@JohnHenryDale since he hasn't answered yet, I'm going to assume it's because of the financial end of buying a new M car vs a slightly used one.
How is you M2
@@johnbacon4997 it's amazing.
Sorry I somehow didn't see any of these responses til now.
DT-S makes a good point. If you factor in time and effort, I’m not sure Mr. Camissa has an enviable cost of ownership
Way to go Hyphen knowing the Johnny Cash song "One Piece at a Time"!
Leases only work as (I understand) if:
1-you plan to get a brand new car every 3ish yrs
2-you drive low miles each year
3-you like fast depreciating cars that require catastrophic repairs immediately after the warranty expires...so you wouldn't want to own it
2015 M3 $71k MSRP. $650 down and $1050/mo. for 36 mos. and 45k total miles. I put 35-40 track days over that time and used it for some daily use as well (I have an alternate low-cost sedan I own as well). I feel happy with the value that I got over those years. It gave me no trouble and fit my needs perfectly as a "no-trailer track car."
Jason is cool
- Sir Issac Newton
Sir Isaac Newton is cool
- Katy Perry
pretty much all $80k plus cars have a lease price north of $1k/month if you put little to no money down. A $399 lease as Jason suggests barely gets you in a lease special stripped down A-Class after you put like 3 grand down...
2020 BMW m4CS, $105k msrp. got it for $950 a month, that's including the CA 8.5% tax.
@@iBoos1 liar. $950 a month that would be just 11400 a year. The dealer would need to lease it out for 9 years to get the money back. You had to pay a hefty down first, the car was also heavily discounted thanks to the covid situation.
@@DonLee1980 Thanks for calling me a liar, but i don't think you understand how leases work. If they would need to lease it out for 9 years, that would be called financing. Yes, it was discounted, that's why i said $105k MSRP. Also it was 0 down. 3 year lease.
I personally do not like that A class or the CLA. The C klasse is the only "entry level" compact sedan I would even consider from Mercedes line up but of course a C klasse is not exactly "entry level" price at north of 40K
iBoos that seems to line up with what Jason was saying. 4 series depreciation is some 44 percent (not necessarily your version) over 3 years. You are paying 34K over the 3 year lease. With 44 percent depreciation calculated from MSRP the actual residual would be about 59K, or about 46K in actual depreciation. That’s a 12K gap. I imagine that some of it is made up by the version you have but it seems like the dealer is going to be stuck with the approach Jason outlined. I would say you got quite a deal! Well done.
Love your work .Here is some perspective for you, in Australia we pay about $170k full retail, so do the math over four or five years, it's a world of pain down here. Worse still a 2017 Guilia with 2k miles will drop to 100k!. You either have to have so much cash that you don't care or want the car so bad that it doesn't matter anyway. Unfortunately I fall into category 'B' , happy to be financially violated to be able to enjoy a great car. This is my burden.
Truly enjoying the channel.
I found an Oxford Green 1995 750iL for $750 because the gentleman thought it needed a transmission. Just a battery! Thank you depreciation. It's been my daily driver for the past two years and 27,000 miles.
YES! That's a hell of a daily!
V12 daily... That's badass.
I honestly have to say this has been one of my favorite episodes so far. I fully admit I am or have been the type of person you guys make fun of with my car life and purchases. This episode really opened my eyes and I'm appreciate the knowledge you guys bestow on us.
Even when singing someone else's song Jason can't bring himself to say "I love you."
He doesn't have to - isn't it so very obvious?
Anyone else think we should just refer to DT-S as "The Hyphe" ala "The Hoff"
That would be WAAAYYY too nice for his liking lol.
I want to call him Hyphy
@@nathanchildress5596 Let's....get...Hyphyyyyy!!!! "OK so let me tell you how Lancia in the 1920s was just the _best_ thing since sliced bread (sliced bread having been invented the previous winter)"
Hymen*
So happy to have you online with great content Jason- keep the content coming fellas!!
Also consider car lease payments for business owners can have tax benefits. Tax deductions and such.....
This was great guys! Really good insight on the lease-buy situation that I was not too familiar with. I ended up buying my car since I want to keep it for a long long time.
I'm on my 2nd Giulia lease. Both have not been QV models however. My first lease was $325/mo including tax, and this 2019 Giulia lease is $350/mo including tax. I love the car. The first lease was a 24 mo lease, but this one is a 39 mo lease. So far with both cars, I've not had one single issue or repair. There has been a couple re-mappings of the computers, but no mechanical issues of any nature. These cars are great cars, get exceptional gas mileage with 280 bhp and 0-60 in 5 seconds. Made in Italy with incredible styling. I still can't believe how poorly they've been accepted in the US market. People are truly missing out on a special car. (and I've owned 71 cars since 1974) I always wonder Jason, if you are related to the Cammisa motors car dealer in San Mateo CA?
Agreed, great cars. I have a Ti Sport and it’s been trouble free one year and 12k miles in. But don’t get great gas mileage - in city driving, in eco mode, with not heavy traffic, I get in the high teens according to the computer (much worse than the EPA rating). Also didn’t lease it for as little as you did :(
Since the car has been relatively reliable, and you like it so much would you consider buying one, or are you someone who leases all of the time?
Also is your current Giulia the 2020 and are the improvements mostly in the infotainment system significant, do you think the car is a good second hand car to buy off lease?
The math at 16:10 does not add up.
Scenario 1:
$56,000 car
Worth $20,000 at the end of 3 years
Person must pay the $36,000 delta in 36 months.
36,000/36 is a $1000 monthly payment.
Scenario 2
$56,000 car
Worth $30,000 at the end of 3 years
Person must pay the $24,000 delta in 36 months
$24,000/36 is a $666.67 monthly payment
I’ve lease a couple of cars now, and I’m not sure how anybody is leasing a $60,000+ car (like the X5s, GLEs, and other mid-tier luxury models that are commonly leased) for the $500 a month that Jason suggested is “normal”. Even on the leasehackr forums, that’s unheard of. Short of it being some high mileage demo/loaner car, putting a ton of money down (not advised when leasing), or just getting a ton off of MSRP.
A $300-$500 lease payment is more typical of base C classes, base 3 series, and base Guilias (e.g. cars that are $40,000 and under)
Agreed. Figures aren’t representative. I leased my manual GTI base with plaid seats. Got a great deal during the Dieselgate scandal and that was $295/m with $1500 down. Not $209 as suggested. Still fun to listen to!
So in the US it isn't usual to have to pay a certain summ before the rates? In Europe in most lease cases for a 40 000€ car you might pay 5-8 000€ (if i remember correct) and then you pay rates, so the delta is broken up into a first payment and the rates.
nirfz in the US, there are may be some fees at the start of the lease for tax, title, registration, dealer handling fee and other lease start fees, but these are much less than what you have in the EU if I am understanding you correctly. It’s not uncommon to sign a lease, pay the first month’s lease payment and drive away.
@@frontranger Ah, no, i was not talking about taxes (which i guess are higher in the EU). What i meant is that the difference betwen the new value and the expected value at the end of the lease, is not just divided into rates, but a certain payment at the beginning and rates. This means the rates look smaller, but that is due to the initial payment upfront. And to this day i never found a lease contract here, that would have been cheaper than to buy the car for the normal price. (if you have the money. That is the whole reason people in my country even consider leasing) It is different if you have a company and the car is for company use, because the payments can be made from the income before taxes. (so you basically pay less income taxes too) Not the case for private cars.
@@nirfz we have that here, that's the "down payment" that keeps getting referred to, but it sounds like it's less than what you are paying where you live.
Lol, this is one of the reasons I love the car commentators and the car community.
99% of people need a thing that gets them from point A to point B as reliably as possible without huge consumable costs (gas, breaks, etc. not talking TCO here) and in relative comfort and sometimes even style. These same 99% do not have the time or inclination to shop around for months/years, visit notaries, nor do they have unrestricted access to tens of thousands of dollars of rainy day car money. They are willing to pay X amount on a steady basis for this. A lease is a way they achieve these goals with as little hassle as possible. To most people cars are tools that cost money in exchange for a result. Getting an new tool every 2-3 years, instead of every 5 to 6 years (where that tool might lose some of it's reliability,) seems to be a logical decision when you consider the goals. They would never think of a car as investments.
And the fact that you guys can't understand how someone would NOT see a car as an investment shows just how far from the norm you are. Legitimately makes me smile.
I am watch;ing this segment TWICE since I see you, Jason, SHAVED.
I have no idea why I love this show so much. ❤️❤️❤️ Such car connoisseurs 😊
I love leasing. I am a car fanatic and am ocd about my cars looking and feeling perfect the whole time I own them. I used to buy a new car pay on it until the break even point then trade on a new car. This always keeps me under warranty and I always have cars that drive at the way they are designed to. When the rattles start and things start getting loose on the car I am at the trade in point. I have always had a car payment, the beauty of what leasing has done for me is that instead of me having a $490 per month payment on a 30k Mazda 6 I now can lease a luxury car for closer to $450 per month. I get more car for my $. The other perc is leases include gap insurance. If someone hits and totals my lease I walk away from the car, owe 0 money and just go lease another car. I never have to worry about depreciation on the car I choose. , the bank is on the hook if the residual is higher than the cars actual value. You can still buy the car @ the end of a lease, it doesn't cost you any more than if u bought it new you just refinance the balance of the initial loan (residual). In a normal loan I got hit by a drunk driver, when my car was 9 months old, my car was totalled and I still owed 6k more than the insurance company paid for my total loss.
So for me I am paying a monthly subscription for an experience, I have friends that spend more at the bar on a weekend, or on golfing for the month. I get 28, 30 or 31 days a month of enjoyment with a nice car. It's all in the way each individual looks at the expense.
I am a car fanatic!
I know what I want in a car, I know how I want it.. and thats it.
Leasing... is to just to make sure you keep paying someone for that pile of rental out front.
Mine is 20yrs old and you could find it in a FIRE. It does what I tell it to... and nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with them and I spend my money on old cars. But if I was making 100k a month, spending 2-3k a month on a car lease doesn't sound that crazy and outrageous.
No one sub-leasing a compact sedan makes that much a month.
@@theoneandonlybosable They're not talking about Honda Accords, mate. That's nearly a $100k performance car.
When I worked at the dealer BMW, VW, Porsche, Audi.. the parts manager told me they make a 87% mark up on parts.. he showed me a example of a converter that was 1200 dollars list but only cost them 275.. thus was about 15yrs ago but yikes!! Keep up the great content love the show
I worked for a tier 1 automotive supplier. Back when the Nissan Qashqai came out i went to a dealer to buy a condenser for ~$800 to benchmark. Nissan buys that part from their supplier for $20.
Loved this discussion. The car enthusiast market often focuses so hard on only buying used cars (for reasons you stated such as undesired depreciation), but as the used market continues to heat up, we've been losing cool new cars because there's no 'demand' for them. A hot used car market is doomed to collapse on itself over time...absolutely need people to buy/lease new cars.
Exactely! Somebody has to buy new cool cars so they can get into the used market. While saying that, i too never bought a new car in my 22 years of driving.
3 years in a Giulia QV. Not a single problem.
A new t-shirt should be the outline of the both of you in dark with the 2 earbuds coming out.
I appreciate you guys so much! Thanks for keeping me entertained during work. A good shave works for you Mr. C.
You guys are so interesting and fun to watch. I thank you for all your work!! Please please don't stop delivering about vehicles in any other way or dumb shit down. I appreach all your honesty slurrs and all
LMB E39 on Dinan Champions. Derek’s dad is a man of taste.
I’m a CFP and a car guy, so this was a great read. Especially since I’m a Alfa owner and there’s a thread on the Giulia forums debating lease/ownership. The idea of buying used was the route I went, though I skipped the QV and focused my money on what I enjoy most... modifications! Sure, that doesn’t help resell, but it’s cheaper than spending double on the QV. That, and I’m still holding only to my 03 BMW 3 Series after 15 years of ownership.
Very sensible topic! Totally resonated with me
Wow , common sense at its best ..
thank you guys ! Great content !
Extremely entertaining and fun 👍👍👍
Great show, as usual. Thanks guys.
The "paying toward an asset" (versus depreciation) would apply mostly toward the purchase of a used car which has already depreciated. Purchasing a new car typically would be partially paying toward depreciation like a lease would. This video was an interesting discussion and food for thought.
A lot of info but much appreciated as to lease advantages.
Currently own a 2011 335i that I got for $20K 3 years ago. Added 40K miles to it and took a $15K bath in depreciation. It hurts but I love the car!
Wow he looks so much more Italian when he shaves...
All cars start out new. Us car people, who would much rather buy an older car that won't depreciate, wouldn't be able to do so if others didn't spend (waste) all their money on depreciation to buy or lease new vehicles. Let's just be grateful those people exist so that we can continue to benefit from a great used car market.
This may not be on your radar at all but Dodge has some crazy lease specials on their Hellcats. 599 - 699 a month is not unusual. I was given a 649 a month price on a 76K Challenger Hellcat with less than perfect credit and no money down.
Another great episode
Here for Mr. Jason 👍
You look ten years old! It's amazing! Still the best car guy on earth, luv ya!
Excellent and Outstanding!!!
These guys need a raise because they have no idea how much be cars cost
Drove Saab’s for 25 years, all bought used, there depreciation is crazy like 60% after three years. Always 1500$ of mods, rechip with a bit of suspension nothing crazy. Would drive them for 10 to 12 years and actually really reliable if you just keep up with the maintenance .My monthly cost was around 150 a month all in.
Now driving a Jetta, my Saab was much better.😊
22:10 If Derek is 94, how is his dad 80.
his mother is an independent woman
you ever watch the terminator? yeah thats how
Hey, could you guys give us a picture of total cost of ownership of some of your cars? insurance, repairs, maintain everything, gas, etc?
I don't know how it works for everyone, but at Audi (where I work), at least end we have the option to buy out the car, but if its not equitable to do so, we punt it back to Audi who then sell it at an auction. So it's the manufacturer taking the hit if the estimated residual is off, not the dealers (thankfully).
I wish I could ask Jason about car per chases before i do them. I’m doing a lease soon and this just made me doubt myself again.
As the inventory manager at a Ford dealer, we are not required to buy the lease return. It's an option, yes, but Ford will also haul it to a wholesale auction and sell it. We're not financially tied to that car at all. Other manufacturers may be different, though.
Interesting that $250 is considered the basic transportation floor for leasing, including a $1000 down payment.
I have roughly $2000 that's been tied up in "investment" on my daily driver. Insurance is less than $40 per month. Maintenance is bout $500 annually as I do it myself. That's about $100 monthly?
The few times my car has had a failure to start I was able to fix it with hand tools on the spot. I've never blown up an engine.
Seems like learning to do my own maintenance has effectively been saving me $150 monthly. Awesome!
Jason these vids dont look to be heavily edited, a stopwatch might help with finding the times you need to insert a picture
Good episode! I love cars but they can be super expensive. I've had my 2000 E55 & 1977 450SL for about 5 years & total spent is under $23k (purchase, insurance, repair, etc). I think that's not bad all things considered. If I needed a real daily, I'd find an early Honda Fit with sport bits and the 6 speed manual.
Jason & Hyphen are going grey with the hair?
Great episode! Why not talk about some of your projections on what undervalued cars that you think will appriciate in the near future?
I'm interested in Jason's thoughts on the Forte GT. I'm kind of looking at one.
Dear Derek, please give us your opinion on that Panigale. Especially regarding the 1199/1299 and L2 vs the rest)
I notice you have same widows peak as me with the little lighter shade of color. Which has just gotten larger BTW
Derek's living the dream life. I want to be able to cur down commute time with riding a motorcycle year round.
Have you guys driven an e12 BMW. When I was 12 my father had an 81 528i and I absolutely loved that car. I wish he had handed down to me instead of selling it. Can't find one now days .
Great episode
You guys talk about a Quadrifoglio a few years old for $45k. Take a good look at the market - a 3-yr-old QV goes for something like $60k. To get down to $45k you have to be looking at the first year (2017) model.
Y’all are great
Why do you have a type r shirt on?? Is this an indication of you being a fan?
Is that a box of a 996 behind Hyphen?
Jason, you are my lost brother, you are even cheaper than me. 😁
But seriously, your economics and your logic are spot on. 😃👍
So, I was looking at leasing a Alfa Romeo QV that was a lot dust collector (one year on the lot). We were down to $600/month for a 36m/12k lease, but the deal fell apart because I demanded a pre-purchase inspection on the car, since I was going to have to fly down to pick up the car and I didn't trust that the dealer maintained the car while it was just sitting there looking pretty, and they wouldn't allow a local Ferrari/Maserati mechanic to do an inspection of it.
How much did you need to put down to get $600 per month payment?
Input on the holden commodore?
Insert Matt Farah and his Focus RS sum of lease payments here - was around $28k?
For the majority of the country, this is the reality: if you want a new car, look at the price tag, and expect to lose 75% of that in 4 years.
As a Bay Area boy, I say we shorten hyphen to HYPHY! Because Derek is so buck-wild. Berkeley does have amazing cars BTW, I just moved there.
Jason I agree... USD 1'200/mo *spent* in depreciation is A LOT for a Giulia QF !
But also, you said it "we only live once"... so if one can afford it why not get the stupid Aston, or M6... they have the benefit of making you appreciate the E46 and E60 you also kept in your garage :-)
The next time my dad points at a McLaren and asks me what car it is (he's mildly interested in cars, but not like me) I will tell him its depreciation on wheels.
So simply stated always get the M version of a BMW or the GT version of any 911 or cayman. As they do not depreciate at the same rate and likely will be a stabilized price?
The M cars still depreciate, just not as sharply as, say, a 7-series. Porsche GT cars seem to hold value very well.
Cool show
Sad thing most dealerships push leases so hard on new cars now it’s crazy...
Holy sh*t, I just fully realized why I dig you guys more than most other car guy talk shows... You’re Bay Area folks, as opposed to most others, who are usually from LA (of those who are CA-based). That very real cultural gap accounts for much of why I really enjoy the tenor and rhythm and sensibilities of this show, and why the LA-based stuff just starts to annoy me after only a few minutes of listening.
Maybe i understood something wrong, but to rent an Alfa in this range in europe you pay around 500€ for a weekend (!) with quite limited included km's. I found two sites, one from germany and one from switzerland, and for a month with a quadrofoglio you are between 3000 and 7000€. So i think the 1200$ aren't that much. Remember for a Lease you have a certain summ that you pay at first and then the rates (at least here in europe).
he said whaaaaat....about his sister lol 49:33
I don't know about V8 Vantage being worth $40k in 3-5yrs time coz here in the UK, the cheapest V8 Vantage 4.7 costs £35k.
Super entertaining and informative! So with Jason’s logic my lease is only 400 (with subtracted 200 base). I feel pretty good about my purchase. I’m a young idiot and leased a Giulia TI when they first landed in the US. No regrets. I’ve owned a lot of cool sports/ sporty cars (Thanks Mom) and the Giulia is objectively and subjectively (touchy feely) car I’ve ever owned and driven since. I want to get an M2 (Manual) after my lease but the steering and handling balance was not quite there for me :/
53:47 @kadorikrunch Thanks! I was guessing it was somehow related to dulling spray used in productions to take off reflections or shine. So, I was totally off the mark, except that drama spray and dulling spray might be in the same kit. [Not really: art dept or lighting would have dulling spray, while FX would have the atmo/haze.]
Sorry, did I hear a suggestion that you can lease a Bentley continental for $1200/month? That can’t possibly be true.
Do a Giulia vs Stinger comparison
The most expensive automotive experience i ever had was also my 996.. urgh.
Old video I know, but these guys live in a different world. Most people do not pay 3-500 a month. 1100 is slightly steep but without a hefty downpayment that is normal for a 60k vehicle.
DT-S should grow a beard for the next episode. He would look like alternate universe Spock.
I have never bought a new car, don’t think I ever will. But someone has to or there will not be any cool cheap cars to buy.
You think that’s bad? A coworker bought a C8 Corvette a year ago, base model with no extra options, for $92,000. Bro spends $1500 a month before insurance on this car. His previous vehicle was a Maserati Ghibli with the F154…that he traded in a fully optioned, vadered out C7 ZR1 to buy.
drama spray is also known as canned atmosphere or haze-in-a-can fun!
The other factor on lease vs purchase is that on a lease you pay sales with each payment, whereas on a purchase (either finance or cash) you pay all the sales tax up front. So if you lease with a residual of 50% of the sales price, you pay half the tax that you would if you bought and then sold it.
Really wishing I had watched this before signing a $1600/month (CAD) 3 year lease for a 2024 Giulia QV Carbonio. Wait no I don’t. Last gas powered QV, and only 65 in this trim. Totally buying it out and this will be the last enthusiast car I buy.
This video made me lease a Giulia Ti :-)
I’ll go 15 years, daaaamn, that is startling....
I'd like to see more content on Total Cost of Ownership? Which expensive used car has surprisingly low Total Cost of Ownership? which cheap car is expensive?