Oh no... i wasn't sure this was true. They should update this, so no stage should become FD after turning off hazards. Like seriously why... i can switch to FD via another option.
It seems good until everyone has wildly different rulesets and then evo does battlefield only one year and that's the new ruleset forever. That's how smash rulesets usually go and we should probably be more concerned about it.
Yes, it becomes a problem for TOs as it takes longer for picks and bans to be made causing the tourneys to get dragged out and more people getting upset their favourite stage didn't get played/banned from the tourney.
ESAM, the footage of Yoshi’s Story you showed has items on. Are you sure the Shy Guys ALWAYS bring food, or was it only because items were on? Edit: “Yoshi’s Island” has been changed to “Yoshi’s Story.”
I cannot believe people are actually worried about dying too early on warioware and that it’s too aggressive... thank you Esam for promoting exciting gameplay both for players and specators haha much appreciatied
I’m a Project M player and I absolutely love Warioware as a stage in competitive play. It’s an awesome addition. There are stage bans for a reason for people who don’t want to play on it.
The outro starts at 20:18 and goes till 20:37 which confirms the lifespan of ultimate as it will come out this year (2018) and end 19 years later when a game finally will top it as the best game of all time and of course the game that replaces it will be ultimate super street smash brothers 2 turbo and knuckles with new funky mode
Arena Ferox does have a static layout when it's in hazards off! It's got the two statues with one holding two platforms on the right side and one holding a single, slightly angled, platform on the leftside. Like with brinstar's destructible elements they also become invulnerable so as to not interrupt the match. I feel it's definitely a stage worth having as a legal option since it adds more variety to the stage list with no real drawbacks! Do agree on hazards on being banned though, it gets walls a ceilings too often and for too long, like you sad, bad for competition.
Apparently Arena Ferox, Gamer and Mario Maker are confirmed to have random stage layouts by people who have the game early. So yeah.. sadly that's not happening.
@@elvv4087 I had heard that Gamer and Mario Maker still do, but I still haven't seen or heard that Ferox changes at all. That's immensely disappointing if it does still change, why even bother making the statues invulnerable at that point. Hopefully in a future patch they can adjust what 'hazards off' means for some stages.
Elvv What’s the problem with randomly generating layout? As long there aren’t any hazards like ceilings or destructible statues, I don’t see an issue with having a stage that changes in the beginning of the match.
@@cyan_8716 I don't either, in fact I like stages with transformations for the purposes of competition, but if it keeps the transformation like the one with the big T shaped wall in the middle that's makes the whole stage unusable in a competitive setting. While it's possible they curated the set of stages that the stage becomes I kind of doubt it since all of the other transformation stages either become static or still have all of their forms as far as I'm aware.
Ive said this 1 million times Hazards off arena ferox is the portion of the stage with the statues that holds the three platforms. IT DOES NOT HAVE A CEILING. THE STATUES DO NOT HAVE HIT BOXES.
THANK YOU. Geez top players don't know sh*t. This I'd honestly a god tier stage, with a sick design and layout. If it isn't in the stagelist I'm legit gonna punch GimR and any backroom member in their d*cks.
@@ArcadianLegend Weird. I played 3 matches of Arena Ferox either my friends at the mall. The statues variant was only one we got without hazards. It stayed like that the whole time.
With my friend group, what we did is set random stage select to every stage without an obvious major problem like Great Cave Offensive or Wii Fit Studio. If we ever get a stage that we feel is genuinely not fun or fair and we don't enjoy playing on it, then we remove it from the list. We've narrowed it down pretty well.
BeefusDoesStuff Dont walk to the edge of the stage where someone will throw you off for 5 seconds then???????? Prism Tower was legal in 3DS so I dont wanna hear it dude. We have Delfino which is 6 times as bad as Prism Tower. literally Prism Tower should be legal no questions asked.
The plats are waaaaay too far apart and will promote terrible camping. No thanks tbh. You can play omega or battlefield version of a zelda stage for the music
@@ducky9042 yknow or it's a counter pick for a reason and you can just ban it if you dont like it. It's better to have it legal at the start to test it then remove later if needed
@@silverroxas358 We have enough valid stages to where we don't need to fluff out the stage list with questionable stages. Besides, CP's have historically all been banned over time besides PS in melee. Why even bother when we have so many other good choices that wouldnt be such a fringe case?
@@silverroxas358 I agree. Just experiment with potentially adequate stages and go from there. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out, simple. It NEVER hurts to try and see how something may work out.
@@ducky9042 The issue with your line of thinking is that it's nearly impossible to add something onto the list after it has already been banned, thus giving us more reason to start with as large of a list as possible and strike things that don't work after we've proven they don't. The game isn't out yet, there's no reason to ban stages that have potential to be legal.
Sadly the community sucks when it comes to new things so any stage that's a toss up will get banished never tested forgotten, let's group all tri plats regardless of features and only use battlefield fd animal crossings Hoping people actual want to try new things as we've tried in all and dont just ban things forever
That's the thing. Dreamland Fountain of Dreams and Yoshi story hazards off are all just battlefield virtually _nothing_ different. So group them together with normal battlefield so if one gets banned for a match they all get banned for the match. Otherwise characters like Sheik or Cloud that can highly abuse tri Platform layouts can easily go to the exact same stage to stay having an advantage.
First off, those triplats are absolutely not the same. Blastzone distance, platform size and height, slanting etc. I'm guessing the amount of bans a player gets in Ultimate tourneys will be quite insane lol Secondly, in literally every smash iteration most toss-ups got tested a LOT, both in locals and big tourneys. Sm4sh still has some stages that are legal depending on what tourney you go to. There's a large community that discusses and decides on stages, you know. But if it has something obviously broken to it (walk-off, ceiling, big wall(s)) it would be a waste of time to test and discuss it. I'm almost surprised PS is still legal in Melee, even though I'm glad it is.
Im pretty sure Arena Ferox has NO transformations (which means NO ceilings) or breakable ledges with hazards off, so I think hazards off should be fine for that one.
Actually, the thing about Arena Ferox is that the hazardless version uses one of the transformations, and it's the transformation that *doesn't* have a ceiling. It's that slanted layout with one platform on the left and two platforms on the right, only this time you can't break the structures to get rid of the platforms. It should absolutely be a counterpick stage imo
In a recent interview by Sakurai, he stated that there's gonna be a day one patch, so we can hope that it can fix FoD's framerate issues and maybe YS's items.
One thing I'm worried about as a spectator, is that tournaments will still just have everyone pick the regular Battlefield instead of randomizing the BF variants of all the other stages because of music stuff. That's the reason I've heard that a lot of stages get banned as well, and it'd kind of suck to now be able to have all of these awesome stages available as a battlefield variant but not be seen in tournaments
I mean... FD isn't even considered sometimes, some people don't even like that stage because it's completely unfavorable for their character. The reason we have a small number of stages is so that people understand what they're playing, how to play them, and what environments you can abuse them with.
It's not FD all the time, it's Smashville, which is far more obnoxious because it isn't aesthetically pleasing (I don't care how well designed it is 😆)
@@tysonfontanez Lol, a lot of people seem to hate Smashville too, but it's probably one of my favorite legal stages. I don't like too many platforms and platforms that go too high, so Smashville is a great fit because you aren't forced to fight on little ground like in Battlefield. I like Pokemon Stadiums too, and I just wish Brawl Yoshi's Island gets to be picked more
Having so many legal stages (relative anyways) is so nice, I'm actually kinda curious on Reset Bomb Forest with Hazards off because that design is super unique.
Totally unnecessary for you to come to this guys channel, insult him about something he's professional about, call him out his name and then tell him to relax. How about doing yourself a favor and not watch his videos if it's that serious. What's sad is you'll be back to watch the next video....
The thing about Arena Ferox and Gamer (at least from what I've heard) is their hazards off versions don't have the caves of life. they just have normal platforms in this setup that has 2 platforms on 1 side and 1 on the other.
the shy guys dropping fruit on yoshi's melee might be more of an items on thing rather then hazards on. in the mario stages with ?mark blocks if you have items off you can hit the blocks but no item comes out. Could be the same thing with the shy guys with items off.
People need to stop looking at it from just a player’s perspective. It’s a new game so new eyes will be watching and having such a handful of stages(like Smash 4) is bound to hurt retention of viewers and potential newcomers. That said, we need variety but fairness in these stages so bless God almighty Lylat is gone. Also, can we please not just go to battlefield-battlefield every single time since we have the option to make every stage a battlefield? Variety is the spice of life and a major factor of retaining viewership.
If blastzones and layout are not the same they can be considered different stages than Battlefield. As for "player's perspective": as a viewer I would absolutely despise having uncompetitive stages in important tournaments unless both players agree to it.
Most proposed rulesets I've seen have game 1 played on default Battlefield, with the option to gentleman to an alternate version. As a counterpick, the counterpicking player gets to decide the default/alternate version to play on.
The best Smash youtuber. Such great content and entertaining to listen to. Unfortunately due to the nature of the game a lot of the personalities are really cringeworthy so finding this channel is very welcome .
Because You can turn off Wispy and Even Dreamland gets a Battlefield Version, I wish they would've brought back the Super high ceiling from Melee, That alone makes it my favorite melee stage.
@HammerBroGH It's a hazard. I don't know why you're acting like it's some kind of attack. It's a moving stage element that isn't attached to the main body of the stage. That's the definition of "stage hazard". Even the moving platforms in FOD and Smashville are considered hazards because they are not a part of the main body of the stage. Why are you having trouble understanding this?
Not only does it suck that most ultimate tournaments in my region r coming out with rulesets haven't banned lylat but its worse that lylat is considered a starter while town and city is now considered a counterpick. Granted now who the fuck is gonna choose lylat these days when we got so many better stages but it still sucks that this stage is pointlessly legal.
If the Switch is having trouble rendering a 1 on 1 match on a constant frame rate I don't see much on what they can do to fix that. The only thing I can imagine is sacraficing graphics quality for consistent gameplay which might go hand in hand for some players. EDIT: Just imagine an ice climbers ditto on FoD.. I would love to see how the game handles that
i haven't followed the competitive scene, so i don't understand why so much hate on lylat, personally i like very much the stage layout Ps is it because it is jump trough?
It's wild that in three games they still can't make Lylat work right. I love that hazards-off gives us so many more stage options than past Smash games. I think it's absolutely worth losing stages like funSmashville and FoD (especially considering the lag) to get such a bigger stage list. Ultimate's gonna be wild fun.
Wait, wasn't Arena Ferox hazards off just the double statue layout, with no breakability? Then that's an odd, tilted triplat, that doesn't have a ceiling. Is that still unviable?
4:21 just wanted to point this out, but the footage of yoshi story that you used did have items on. Considering how other states with similar hazards to the shy guys (Smashville, Yoshi's Island Wii), the shy guys on this stage won't carry healing items in when items are off
WAIT. The Cloud at 2:42 had limit, but used a single Cross Slash. Can you choose when to use limit? If so, Cloud actually might be pretty sick (his recovery will be buffed to the moon)
@@sersmiles1635 Not at all, Smashville and F&C without hazards is even more neutral than with hazards on. And Yoshi's Story (off) is different enough from BF to be viable.
@@jaybarbrey6511 true, I'm really hoping the day 1 patch fixes the Shy Guy dropping food issue. Because so far it's been confirmed that even with items off and everything set to none that's still a hazard, which is horseshit. It wasn't the case Melee so hopefully it's just a mistake.
So why are people butthurt about banning stages early although they can play battlefield and omega version with hazards off competitive smash players don't know good variety
For Dreamland 64, whether it's the same as other tri-platform stages comes down to the platform heights. Dreamland 64's platforms are higher up, and whether or not your character can land on a side platform from the base with a full hop probably will matter. If you can't it means you're always burning your double jump to chase someone onto a platform, and if they catch you on the way up and knock you off stage, you could be SoL.
Just a slight issue: Shy Guys on Yoshi's Story only drop fruits if the Food item is enabled. If it isn't, they fly in and can interrupt projectiles, but won't heal people.
Hazardless Arena Ferox has a consistent layout with no ceiling. Two platforms on the right, one slanted, and another platform on the left, also slanted. The only issue making it worthy of a ban is the size and height of the platforms. From ledge to ledge there is a ton of space, and many characters cannot reach another character with an attack while they are on the high end of one of the slanted platforms. This may allow for faster characters to camp more.
Quick correction: hazards off Arena Ferox is the version most people are talking about, and it DOESN'T have ceilings. It has some interesting slanted platforms that I think would make it a neat counterpick, actually. Not sure about hazards off Gamer tho
So apparently Arena Ferox picks a random transformation when you turn hazards off, it isn't always the one with the ceiling. I agree that the transformation with the ceiling is anti competitive however it can also have the setup with the two statues holding up the 3 slanted platforms that can all be passed through (a very unique layout) and it keeps that setup for the whole match. Also side note with hazards off you cannot break the statues and also they are not hit by attacks so they do not slightly slow down attacks passing through them like they do with hazards on.
Stadium 1 and 2 are very similar to one another, but in Stadium 1 the players spawn on the main platform, whereas in Stadium 2 they spawn on the two floating platforms respectively.
K. 👌 You go ganondorf, I'll go fox and let's play on Hyrule temple, I'll run away the whole match while fireing lasers at you. Or better yet, let's just go Pac-Land You go Jigglypuff and I'll go ness and backthrow you into the moving blastzone. Do either of those sound fair or balanced? Stages need to remain fair and balanced so that it's just Player vs. Player, no distractions and not Player vs. Player vs. Stage
@@spectral5939 not what i meant. Instead of incorperating stages like unova league, gamer and arena ferox, they axe them for no reason. Not even willing to test
@@seanm4208 Arena Fox and Gamer gave random layouts (RNG) and gamer platforms you cannot pass through so characters can easily keep rickashaying off the top platforms over and over again. Unove has a layout which would lead to camping.
@@seanm4208 Also has to come down to Blast Zones. And also characters like Little Mac and Ganondorf can get easilt screwd, which is why Duck Hunt was banned.
thank you for making a dedicated video for this. also, you are the first person i have seen advocating for smashville hazards on and off to be considered separate stages. smart.
13:38 Gonna hard disagree there. The foreground issue really bothers me not because of the issue itself, but because people are making this a huge deal. It's not seizure-inducing (like Final Destination's background) nor does it obstruct the main action on stage. It only shows up when a player goes off-stage on the right side. It's annoying, but not impossible to deal with, so unless a lot of matches or sets are lost because of this one thing that appears in the right side of the stage near the bottom blast zone, I don't see why we can't have it as a legal stage.
One problem I have with the competitive players in Smash is this weird resistance to thinks that alter the stage and make you have to play differently. "OH NO, YOU MIGHT GET 10 HEALTH BACK IF YOU HIT THE SHYGUYS AND GET THE FOOD." Are we really going to say thats an issue. You aren't talking about a lot of health and it is something for both players. It's something you both have to consider when playing and take advantage of that. A similar case can be made for Pokemon Stadium 2. "OH NO THERE IS A WALL SOMETIMES." Yeah, then play around it. It's not like the stage doesn't telegraph the change. Moreover, this was on in Melee. Same for a lot of stages. You can have some variety. I'm not saying to play on Flat Zone. But I think the community needs to not be so quick to bad. Nothing wrong with a stage list with a lot of variety.
The 10 health food thing is an issue because it basically randomly rewards one player over the other for winning neutral as the shyguys happened to bring a bunch of food. That sucks and shouldnt be allowed. As for walls, walls suck because they lead to super skewed neutral interactions which can promote camping and in some cases, infinites. Melee allows it because they dont have many stages (though some people advocate banning it anyway). Its just a dangerous thing to have in the stagelist that needs to be considered. I dont think its always a dealbreaker but its definitely cause for thought
ESAM is the only person I know who want to legalize so many stages. Every time I bring up legal stages people never want any hazards and if there is even something slightly odd they automatically say no to it.
I feel like I’m the only person in the competitive scene that wishes everyone would stop bein pussies about stages. Like honestly i feel like we’ve morphed the game into something else. Like not doin sudden death, the lack of stages. If you’re good at smash you’re good at smash. I understand the reasoning behind all these rules don’t get me wrong. And it is probably for the best this way. But lylat does need to knock its shit off haha
i question why the competitive scene is so restrictive. they call themselves the best smash players, yet they lack flexibility. if they truly want to show they are skilled, they should get thrown out of the comfort zone from time to time. also, the new sudden death looks very climactic. i can imagine amazing plays being made during sudden death
@@Underworlder5 The thing about being competitive is that well... You want an environment that can truly show skill and not an environment that punishes somebody for random reasons. Sudden Death, for example, would be incredibly unrewarding mainly because of the bomb drops, they are completely random and not in your control, how can you say that you are skillful if you won to something you didn't even do? The idea of "Lacking Flexibility" may be true, however, having legal stages is so that *every* playstyle is alright to play rather than a select few. If Great Cave Offensive or Temple were legal, it would reward very fast characters with the ability to get away, and would incredibly punish characters that don't have those options, in which case would make characters such as Ganondorf completely unviable in the meta. Obviously, it's good to be flexible, but being competitive also correlates to having a fair ruleset that everyone can say "Wow that guy's good" rather than just "Wow that guy was really unlucky".
A competitive game calls for a competitive rule set that encourages player skill and mentality while maintaining balance and fairplay which is just a set and stone concept. Introducing factors that contribute to an anti competitive environment hurts the scene and the game as a whole. With a fair ruleset, it's easy to differentiate the good from the best which is what Smashers strive for. Otherwise the game will be set on whoever has the luckiest luck of the other.
Yea, I'm not watching competitive Ultimate. This is going to be boring to watch soon after release just like Smash 4. Some of these bans are honestly really some of the smallest reasons, and I don't believe Smash is *entirely* about only you and your opponent, but a little bit of the stage itself. Banning stages and characters before the game even comes out is not a good sign either, because we won't entirely know how everything works until we actually have a month of time messing with everything. The competitive community is seemly jumping the gun at this point and which is why I prefer the older meta of smash like melee.
@@imESAM Melee has every right to ban all the stages they did, however they partially also didn't ban Stadium as they felt it wasn't as effective or random inducing like all the other stages they have banned. Yoshi's on Brawl is legal as well, little slumps on the edge of the stage is not random and cannot be used to a whole entire advantage to a character. Yes characters do benefit from stages, and that's okay as there is no way to make everything completely balanced. I'm also not sure what you thought when I was mentioning stages, and I'm not sure why you assumed I was speaking of all other stages in melee besides the actual legal ones.
@@imESAM That comment you placed as well is a complete analogy on how the competitive ultimate community is jumping the gun too. Just jumping straight in without actually understanding the context at first hand and taking a bit of thought before responding/reacting.
I have to agree with @Phetch on this one. The comp scene has become extremely boring and honestly has bigger pansies then actual randoms. You're not a real pro player if you ban each and every single possible thing you're not able to deal with, that just makes you look bad, especially to other communities. This won't bring anyone in, not even spectators. And the fact we're banning stages before the game has even came out is pretty sad and has made Smash a laughing stock among other comp communities. Not even a weak comp scene like CoD bans maps before release. This is an all-time low and honestly Smash Ultimate's competitive scene is not going to survive as a result, it's too "babified." Randal in melee is accepted because it's not random and both parties have to deal with it. a Good majority of Ultimate's stages are the same way, what's happening here is Smash 4 players, who are the dumbest of the bunch, are banning each and every single stage because they don't want to think about more than anything than a flat generic stage. This isn't professionalism, this is dumbing down in its defined form. We look so bad in the eyes of others it's probably going to become a meme. Hell, some TH-camrs are already memeing on us. Just stop. Stop banning for the dumbest reasons that a bad player can't work around, this is suppose to be the PRO scene. Name one other professional scene that banes places for having something non-symetrical in it. Fuck's sake even Nascar figured this out, they have tracks that have hills, bumbs, twists and turns that some car builds, and some racers could struggle with, but it's still up to the *racer* to figure it out. And if you respond with "Well this isn't Nascar LMFAO" then that shows who you truly are, because your comment to Phetch was extremely rude and dismissive. Changed my mind on subscribing. Cheers.
Depends which stage. Most stages are better hazards off, as they make the game more fair, but sometimes it's fine to have a stage with hazards on. For example dreamland
KeYo Smash is a fighting game in the sense that people smack each other around and make it competitive. We arent a traditional fighter like tekken or sf but that whole platform fighter thing. Still a fighting game, just not the same as traditional ones
Regarding Castle Siege, the foreground issue is resolved by the new smash radar. Even if you can't see your character directly, you can see the positions via the radar.
I found this video super helpful as someone who enjoys playing 1v1 smash with competition-like rules but is looking for stage diversity without going battlefield mode for everything. In a 4 person brawl, I usually say throw it all in there and make it a party. But 1v1 I want it to be down to fighting skill without drastic stage interference. Just my preference. Appreciate the thoughts ESAM!
I agree for the most part except for Yoshi's Story, Town and City, and Arena Ferox. The only reason there was food for Yoshi's is because they had items on, if you played on any stage that has shyguys or balloons with food items turned on, they will carry it. For Town and City, Hazards should be on. With them off, the middle platform stays at the top and is static. This could very easily lead to circle camping on the platforms and you could very easily run away from someone with a bad recovery and would be punished heavily if they tried to intervene. Sure, the laddering is a bit of an issue, but it's a very rare occurrence, and would be much preferable over circle camping and a potential ban. Arena Ferox in Hazards off no longer transforms, it just keeps the first layout, and the statues no longer have hurtboxes, meaning there will be no ceiling, meaning it has a unique and different layout, being an amazing stage to play on. Also Skyloft and Wuhu Island would also be great stages. Skyloft doesn't transform and keeps the unique triplat layout. Wuhu Island, I agree, a really big stage, possibly too big for singles, but what about doubles? I personally believe this would be an amazing doubles only stage. Sure we really haven't had that before, but we can always try it out. (Also please fix FoD and CS I love these two stages)
I was playing as Bowser against a Pikachu on Castle Siege. I took over the lower left side of the slant and it raised the Pikachu up high enough for my fair.
Hopefully the day 1 patch fixes that FoD dramedrop issue, because it needs to be legal. And can someone confirm if Shy Guys still drop food on Yoshi's Story with items off (and selected off individually as well)?
you're telling me this game was able to handle 16 ice climbers on the animal crossing island but lags with two players on Fountain of Dreams...?
Time stamp?
@@calebpagan2226 th-cam.com/video/BOMqfhq8cmc/w-d-xo.html
@@SP3Nayias I meant fountain of dreams lag
@@calebpagan2226 oh lol He starts talking about it at 5:08 and mentions the lag issues that occur due to the reflections.
@@SP3Nayias thanks bro
Wily castle could’ve been good if they kept moving platforms but cut the yellow devil...
Beta 01 just turn stage hazards off.
Then there aren't moving platforms and it's basically FD.
erhan jpg that gets rid of moving platforms.
Oh no... i wasn't sure this was true. They should update this, so no stage should become FD after turning off hazards. Like seriously why... i can switch to FD via another option.
*fd with walls underneath it. Makes a pretty big difference for recovery of walljumping characters.
What an awesome problem it is to have almost too many legal stages
It seems good until everyone has wildly different rulesets and then evo does battlefield only one year and that's the new ruleset forever. That's how smash rulesets usually go and we should probably be more concerned about it.
I personally get really curious as to what stages the competitive community would make themselves if they got to design stages for the game.
Thats not a problem, its the community complaining that its not their way
Competitive stages are the most boring holy shit. You're curious? It'd literally just be flat stages with 3 platforms in .1 degrees of varations.
Yes, it becomes a problem for TOs as it takes longer for picks and bans to be made causing the tourneys to get dragged out and more people getting upset their favourite stage didn't get played/banned from the tourney.
ESAM, the footage of Yoshi’s Story you showed has items on. Are you sure the Shy Guys ALWAYS bring food, or was it only because items were on?
Edit: “Yoshi’s Island” has been changed to “Yoshi’s Story.”
Yeah items off they don’t bring anything
I read that even with items off they still bring food
Yes, they always bring food. MJ is Lying
Smash 4 smashville have fruit with items? I think it should be the same, without items no fruit will come
www.ssbwiki.com/Yoshi%27s_Story
Wiki says Shy Guys don't bring food when items are off. Probably have to test this in game to be certain though.
*But where is Poké Floats?*
how can i play smash without poké floats
this man asking the right questions
In melee
Squirtle is playable. That's why we don't have it.
SERIOUSLY! They're gonna bring back 103 stages, but none of them are the fan favorite Poke Floats? xD Come on Sakurai lmao
this time he didn't even say buh-buh-bye. so the plot thickens....
thank god
I cannot believe people are actually worried about dying too early on warioware and that it’s too aggressive... thank you Esam for promoting exciting gameplay both for players and specators haha much appreciatied
Yeah that's the 2018 smash 4 community for you. Ban ban ban, they even want to ban Meta Knight because he has a combo on fastfallers 😆
I’m a Project M player and I absolutely love Warioware as a stage in competitive play. It’s an awesome addition. There are stage bans for a reason for people who don’t want to play on it.
Tyson Fontanez All we need to do is ban Lylat.
Or just adapt like people used to do. You can even turn hazards off now, so I think Lylat should be legal
@@Danodan94 Two words: Hazards Off.
The outro starts at 20:18 and goes till 20:37 which confirms the lifespan of ultimate as it will come out this year (2018) and end 19 years later when a game finally will top it as the best game of all time and of course the game that replaces it will be ultimate super street smash brothers 2 turbo and knuckles with new funky mode
That sounds like the greatest possible game ever. also nice name btw
you forgot (featuring dante from the devil may cry series)
what the fuck
Arena Ferox does have a static layout when it's in hazards off! It's got the two statues with one holding two platforms on the right side and one holding a single, slightly angled, platform on the leftside. Like with brinstar's destructible elements they also become invulnerable so as to not interrupt the match. I feel it's definitely a stage worth having as a legal option since it adds more variety to the stage list with no real drawbacks! Do agree on hazards on being banned though, it gets walls a ceilings too often and for too long, like you sad, bad for competition.
Are you sure Arena Ferox got a static layout with hazards off ? I've heard that it's still random.
Apparently Arena Ferox, Gamer and Mario Maker are confirmed to have random stage layouts by people who have the game early.
So yeah.. sadly that's not happening.
@@elvv4087 I had heard that Gamer and Mario Maker still do, but I still haven't seen or heard that Ferox changes at all. That's immensely disappointing if it does still change, why even bother making the statues invulnerable at that point. Hopefully in a future patch they can adjust what 'hazards off' means for some stages.
Elvv What’s the problem with randomly generating layout? As long there aren’t any hazards like ceilings or destructible statues, I don’t see an issue with having a stage that changes in the beginning of the match.
@@cyan_8716 I don't either, in fact I like stages with transformations for the purposes of competition, but if it keeps the transformation like the one with the big T shaped wall in the middle that's makes the whole stage unusable in a competitive setting. While it's possible they curated the set of stages that the stage becomes I kind of doubt it since all of the other transformation stages either become static or still have all of their forms as far as I'm aware.
Ive said this 1 million times
Hazards off arena ferox is the portion of the stage with the statues that holds the three platforms. IT DOES NOT HAVE A CEILING. THE STATUES DO NOT HAVE HIT BOXES.
THANK YOU. Geez top players don't know sh*t. This I'd honestly a god tier stage, with a sick design and layout. If it isn't in the stagelist I'm legit gonna punch GimR and any backroom member in their d*cks.
Arena Ferox, GAMER and Super Mario Maker still use random layouts when hazards are off, according to people who got Ultimate early.
@@ArcadianLegend Weird. I played 3 matches of Arena Ferox either my friends at the mall. The statues variant was only one we got without hazards. It stayed like that the whole time.
@@ArcadianLegend They could be lying, and I haven't seen any evidence, so I'm going with what I've seen until the release.
Walkoffs?
#LegalyzeGreatCaveOffensive
Miruki and palutenas temple
Isn't it already legal? It's unfortunate..
You spelled hanenbow wrong
Don't forget 75m
Miruki
And balloon fight ;p
Esam just wants slanted stages for quick attack cancels I see you
ESAM: Yoshi’s Island Melee
Me: It’s called Yoshi’s Story, Yoshi’s Island Melee is the one with the walkoff and breakable blocks.
You: ESAM made a mistake in his video
Me: Why are you formatting your comment in such a weird way?
You: Why are you formatting your comments like this?
Me: Why is it a problem if I wanna type like this?
Y’all: ooga booga smash brudda
Me: Why do people get enraged on the format of text?
Simon Grander: Thats the internet for you
Me: Thats sad
You: Yeet?
Me: Yote.
With my friend group, what we did is set random stage select to every stage without an obvious major problem like Great Cave Offensive or Wii Fit Studio. If we ever get a stage that we feel is genuinely not fun or fair and we don't enjoy playing on it, then we remove it from the list. We've narrowed it down pretty well.
Man it's hard being a Prism Tower fan. Half the people want it banned for a 5s walkoff and literally nothing else, half the people forget it exists.
Honestly if you can 0 to Death someone in the first five seconds of the match you earned it
BeefusDoesStuff Dont walk to the edge of the stage where someone will throw you off for 5 seconds then???????? Prism Tower was legal in 3DS so I dont wanna hear it dude. We have Delfino which is 6 times as bad as Prism Tower. literally Prism Tower should be legal no questions asked.
But... But I'm agreeing that it should be legal
Zamazardde X wow someone doesn’t know how to read
@@beefusdoesstuff5194 Mans doesn't even take a second to actually read what you had to say...
Stages you didn't talked about :
-Kongo Jungle (hazards off)
-Green Greens (Hazards off)
-Norfair (Hazards off)
-Spear Pilar (Hazards off)
-Magicant (Hazards off)
-StreetPass Quest (Hazards off)
-Tomodachi Life (Hazards on)
-Pictochat 2 (Hazards off)
-Mushroom Kingdom U (Hazards off)
-Gamer (Hazards off)
-Duck Hunt (Hazards off)
-Wily Castle (Hazards off)
-Midgard (Hazards off)
-Umbra Clock Tower (Hazards off)
-Moray Tower (No Hazards)
Skyloft is a static consistent layout. You can just always go through the bottom of the main platform
Please let it be legal for Zelda music
The plats are waaaaay too far apart and will promote terrible camping. No thanks tbh. You can play omega or battlefield version of a zelda stage for the music
@@ducky9042 yknow or it's a counter pick for a reason and you can just ban it if you dont like it.
It's better to have it legal at the start to test it then remove later if needed
@@silverroxas358 We have enough valid stages to where we don't need to fluff out the stage list with questionable stages. Besides, CP's have historically all been banned over time besides PS in melee. Why even bother when we have so many other good choices that wouldnt be such a fringe case?
@@silverroxas358 I agree. Just experiment with potentially adequate stages and go from there. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out, simple. It NEVER hurts to try and see how something may work out.
@@ducky9042 The issue with your line of thinking is that it's nearly impossible to add something onto the list after it has already been banned, thus giving us more reason to start with as large of a list as possible and strike things that don't work after we've proven they don't. The game isn't out yet, there's no reason to ban stages that have potential to be legal.
Sadly the community sucks when it comes to new things so any stage that's a toss up will get banished never tested forgotten, let's group all tri plats regardless of features and only use battlefield fd animal crossings
Hoping people actual want to try new things as we've tried in all and dont just ban things forever
That's the thing.
Dreamland Fountain of Dreams and Yoshi story hazards off are all just battlefield virtually _nothing_ different.
So group them together with normal battlefield so if one gets banned for a match they all get banned for the match.
Otherwise characters like Sheik or Cloud that can highly abuse tri Platform layouts can easily go to the exact same stage to stay having an advantage.
This, I don't understand peoples already wanting to ban slighty jank stages and not even considering them.
@@charliemasson4287 Tell that to Lylate.
@@spectral5939 Lylate is far less janky that in Smash 4 already.
First off, those triplats are absolutely not the same. Blastzone distance, platform size and height, slanting etc. I'm guessing the amount of bans a player gets in Ultimate tourneys will be quite insane lol
Secondly, in literally every smash iteration most toss-ups got tested a LOT, both in locals and big tourneys. Sm4sh still has some stages that are legal depending on what tourney you go to.
There's a large community that discusses and decides on stages, you know. But if it has something obviously broken to it (walk-off, ceiling, big wall(s)) it would be a waste of time to test and discuss it. I'm almost surprised PS is still legal in Melee, even though I'm glad it is.
Im pretty sure Arena Ferox has NO transformations (which means NO ceilings) or breakable ledges with hazards off, so I think hazards off should be fine for that one.
Actually, the thing about Arena Ferox is that the hazardless version uses one of the transformations, and it's the transformation that *doesn't* have a ceiling. It's that slanted layout with one platform on the left and two platforms on the right, only this time you can't break the structures to get rid of the platforms. It should absolutely be a counterpick stage imo
In a recent interview by Sakurai, he stated that there's gonna be a day one patch, so we can hope that it can fix FoD's framerate issues and maybe YS's items.
One thing I'm worried about as a spectator, is that tournaments will still just have everyone pick the regular Battlefield instead of randomizing the BF variants of all the other stages because of music stuff. That's the reason I've heard that a lot of stages get banned as well, and it'd kind of suck to now be able to have all of these awesome stages available as a battlefield variant but not be seen in tournaments
I hope it's more than just 5 stages. It gets really boring when it's just Final Destination over and over.
I mean... FD isn't even considered sometimes, some people don't even like that stage because it's completely unfavorable for their character. The reason we have a small number of stages is so that people understand what they're playing, how to play them, and what environments you can abuse them with.
Most people don't even like FD, what do you mean
It's not FD all the time, it's Smashville, which is far more obnoxious because it isn't aesthetically pleasing (I don't care how well designed it is 😆)
@@tysonfontanez Lol, a lot of people seem to hate Smashville too, but it's probably one of my favorite legal stages. I don't like too many platforms and platforms that go too high, so Smashville is a great fit because you aren't forced to fight on little ground like in Battlefield. I like Pokemon Stadiums too, and I just wish Brawl Yoshi's Island gets to be picked more
I've counted all stages that are considered for tournaments (not taking fan arguments into consideration) there is about 19 or so
Esam you know at 4:21 the shy guys won’t have fruit if you turn items off.
Having so many legal stages (relative anyways) is so nice, I'm actually kinda curious on Reset Bomb Forest with Hazards off because that design is super unique.
with items off don't the shy guys not have food on yoshis. so that means we should keep hazards on. (if what i said is true)
With items on at Smashville there is balloon which also carried food, I would imagine it to be the same case with Yoshi’s Island’s Shy Guys
Probably. With items on Item chests appear on great cave offensive, but if without items they don't.
Yoshis Island melee is hazards on the shy guys only have fruit if items is on
ESAM is really good at talking a lot without saying much.
Totally unnecessary for you to come to this guys channel, insult him about something he's professional about, call him out his name and then tell him to relax. How about doing yourself a favor and not watch his videos if it's that serious. What's sad is you'll be back to watch the next video....
The thing about Arena Ferox and Gamer (at least from what I've heard) is their hazards off versions don't have the caves of life. they just have normal platforms in this setup that has 2 platforms on 1 side and 1 on the other.
the shy guys dropping fruit on yoshi's melee might be more of an items on thing rather then hazards on. in the mario stages with ?mark blocks if you have items off you can hit the blocks but no item comes out. Could be the same thing with the shy guys with items off.
ZAX pretty sure this is the case
apparently with items off and hazards on, shy guys bring on food to yoshi's story
rip randall, sakurai pls fix
I think they still bring food *BUT* it's not edible, it just falls through the stage
@@Astrojandro OH ok so its fine then?
@@oliviawallace3636
Well, I guess they still stop proyectiles, but I don't think it's that bad
Mega Man 11 Stage Select Theme? You got great taste my friend
People need to stop looking at it from just a player’s perspective. It’s a new game so new eyes will be watching and having such a handful of stages(like Smash 4) is bound to hurt retention of viewers and potential newcomers. That said, we need variety but fairness in these stages so bless God almighty Lylat is gone. Also, can we please not just go to battlefield-battlefield every single time since we have the option to make every stage a battlefield? Variety is the spice of life and a major factor of retaining viewership.
there is no way people are going to play the *same* battlefield man, everyone likes scenery so i really dotn thin kthats an issue.
@@wolflance64 People been playing the same battlefield for years. If the blast zones and stage size are not the same, back to using one battlefield
If blastzones and layout are not the same they can be considered different stages than Battlefield.
As for "player's perspective": as a viewer I would absolutely despise having uncompetitive stages in important tournaments unless both players agree to it.
Most proposed rulesets I've seen have game 1 played on default Battlefield, with the option to gentleman to an alternate version. As a counterpick, the counterpicking player gets to decide the default/alternate version to play on.
Melee has 6 stages and gets tons of views. Stop with this "we need at least 15+ stages for viewers" nonsense
The best Smash youtuber. Such great content and entertaining to listen to. Unfortunately due to the nature of the game a lot of the personalities are really cringeworthy so finding this channel is very welcome .
I thought Arena Ferox Hazardless didn't have ceilings? I thought it was just the statue form and that the statues didn't have a hitbox?
Because You can turn off Wispy and Even Dreamland gets a Battlefield Version, I wish they would've brought back the Super high ceiling from Melee,
That alone makes it my favorite melee stage.
How is Randall considered to be a “hazard”? Cmon
Sakurai
It's a moving part of a stage. It's a stage hazard
It's not part of the main stage
@HammerBroGH Is Randall a main part of the stage?
@HammerBroGH It's a hazard. I don't know why you're acting like it's some kind of attack. It's a moving stage element that isn't attached to the main body of the stage. That's the definition of "stage hazard". Even the moving platforms in FOD and Smashville are considered hazards because they are not a part of the main body of the stage. Why are you having trouble understanding this?
@HammerBroGH No. Hazard is any moving part of a stage
Not only does it suck that most ultimate tournaments in my region r coming out with rulesets haven't banned lylat but its worse that lylat is considered a starter while town and city is now considered a counterpick. Granted now who the fuck is gonna choose lylat these days when we got so many better stages but it still sucks that this stage is pointlessly legal.
Hazards off great cave offensive for starter stage
I hope they patch FOD and optimise it cause of the beautiful stage and the kirby music
A lot of people are playing on a ROM/illegal early release of smash. So it might not be an issue on the official release hopefully.
If the Switch is having trouble rendering a 1 on 1 match on a constant frame rate I don't see much on what they can do to fix that. The only thing I can imagine is sacraficing graphics quality for consistent gameplay which might go hand in hand for some players.
EDIT: Just imagine an ice climbers ditto on FoD.. I would love to see how the game handles that
Lol it's been a year
Your daily reminder that Lylat needs to be banned. Thank you for your attention
i haven't followed the competitive scene, so i don't understand why so much hate on lylat, personally i like very much the stage layout Ps is it because it is jump trough?
Lylat no longer tilts with hazards off. Look at Link vs Zelda footage. As a bonus, there is no more battle scenes too.
Andres E. Gomez M. Did you see the clips from ultimate on twitter.
Andres E. Gomez M. Regardless of the tilt the ledges are still super janky. Just go on any smashers twitter and you’ll see some clipse of lylat jank
I want lylat in because the plat layout is unique
It's wild that in three games they still can't make Lylat work right.
I love that hazards-off gives us so many more stage options than past Smash games. I think it's absolutely worth losing stages like funSmashville and FoD (especially considering the lag) to get such a bigger stage list. Ultimate's gonna be wild fun.
You forgot all stages are assigned songs from their series not from their stage alone so it isn't a factor
Wait, wasn't Arena Ferox hazards off just the double statue layout, with no breakability? Then that's an odd, tilted triplat, that doesn't have a ceiling. Is that still unviable?
But doesn't Arena Ferox have a consistent platform layout with the statues but they can't be hit? I see no problem with hazardless Ferox
Yeah, I figured that out later after this comment. I thought it was only the statues.
I really wish haz off didn't make it random
4:21 just wanted to point this out, but the footage of yoshi story that you used did have items on. Considering how other states with similar hazards to the shy guys (Smashville, Yoshi's Island Wii), the shy guys on this stage won't carry healing items in when items are off
Rip lylat
WAIT. The Cloud at 2:42 had limit, but used a single Cross Slash. Can you choose when to use limit? If so, Cloud actually might be pretty sick (his recovery will be buffed to the moon)
Ivan Pellper Freely no it was final smash meter (look at the character icon)
Shy guy's food is dependant on items in all smash games (yoshi's island shy guys in brawl) so I think the food won't drop without items
asa asa do some research. It's different now.
@@svenstormbeard so shy guys and smashville balloons bring food if hazards are on?
9:10 What about Arena ferox hazards off? It only has the platforms with statues you cant hit and 0 ceilings
Stage hazards off is going to be an interesting feature...🤔🤔🤔
smashville town city dreamland yoshi's all suck without hazards so
@@sersmiles1635 Not at all, Smashville and F&C without hazards is even more neutral than with hazards on. And Yoshi's Story (off) is different enough from BF to be viable.
lol m2k but yoshis story isn’t the stage without Randal
@@jaybarbrey6511 true, I'm really hoping the day 1 patch fixes the Shy Guy dropping food issue. Because so far it's been confirmed that even with items off and everything set to none that's still a hazard, which is horseshit. It wasn't the case Melee so hopefully it's just a mistake.
So why are people butthurt about banning stages early although they can play battlefield and omega version with hazards off competitive smash players don't know good variety
For Dreamland 64, whether it's the same as other tri-platform stages comes down to the platform heights. Dreamland 64's platforms are higher up, and whether or not your character can land on a side platform from the base with a full hop probably will matter. If you can't it means you're always burning your double jump to chase someone onto a platform, and if they catch you on the way up and knock you off stage, you could be SoL.
Thank goodness you touched on the need for a small stage people need to relax.
One comment on Yoshi’s, they had items on in the footage we have seen. So I think when you turn items off they shouldn’t drop fruit.
Just a slight issue:
Shy Guys on Yoshi's Story only drop fruits if the Food item is enabled. If it isn't, they fly in and can interrupt projectiles, but won't heal people.
In Ultimate they still drop food even if items are off. This has been tested by people who have early copies.
this is not true. They bring items even when items are turned off
Smash ball was on too sooooo... items were on
@@Mira-Hime I was not aware of this. Incredibly disappointing but won't harm me at all lmao.
People may be doing it wrong. You have to set appearance to none, I believe items are actually kept as on
I didn’t really understand what he meant when talking about castle seige’s major negative at 13:15
You picked a good song to play in the background of the video, ESAM. I love the Megaman 11 stage select theme!
Hazardless Arena Ferox has a consistent layout with no ceiling. Two platforms on the right, one slanted, and another platform on the left, also slanted. The only issue making it worthy of a ban is the size and height of the platforms. From ledge to ledge there is a ton of space, and many characters cannot reach another character with an attack while they are on the high end of one of the slanted platforms. This may allow for faster characters to camp more.
Hazards off Arena Ferox and Gamer don’t have ceilings. Also hazards off Super Mario Maker looks viable.
Yes they do fam... They have hard ceilings and they were also random layout
@@Danodan94
Same with AF fam... It's a random layout
that dude actually full charged an F smash when the samus threw away final smash as a gentleman
Any thoughts on hazards off rainbow cruise?
My gut says: Maybe.
Quick correction: hazards off Arena Ferox is the version most people are talking about, and it DOESN'T have ceilings. It has some interesting slanted platforms that I think would make it a neat counterpick, actually. Not sure about hazards off Gamer tho
if items are off foods shouldn't appear
ban game-in-watch
cuz his 7s
I think food appears but it can't be eaten and it just disappears
@@Astrojandro Yeah, i just watched a video where he hit the shy guy, but the fruit just fell through the stage.
So apparently Arena Ferox picks a random transformation when you turn hazards off, it isn't always the one with the ceiling. I agree that the transformation with the ceiling is anti competitive however it can also have the setup with the two statues holding up the 3 slanted platforms that can all be passed through (a very unique layout) and it keeps that setup for the whole match. Also side note with hazards off you cannot break the statues and also they are not hit by attacks so they do not slightly slow down attacks passing through them like they do with hazards on.
What about lylat stage morph into battle field
Stadium 1 and 2 are very similar to one another, but in Stadium 1 the players spawn on the main platform, whereas in Stadium 2 they spawn on the two floating platforms respectively.
ESAM how can you be against wuhu for being too big when you wanted Ridley?🤔
How about Halberd hazards off? The only difference is no cannon or claw.
i dont get why people force a stage list down to 10. I think their are easily more then that and that we should use every stage possible.
K. 👌
You go ganondorf, I'll go fox and let's play on Hyrule temple, I'll run away the whole match while fireing lasers at you.
Or better yet, let's just go Pac-Land You go Jigglypuff and I'll go ness and backthrow you into the moving blastzone.
Do either of those sound fair or balanced?
Stages need to remain fair and balanced so that it's just Player vs. Player, no distractions and not Player vs. Player vs. Stage
@@spectral5939 not what i meant. Instead of incorperating stages like unova league, gamer and arena ferox, they axe them for no reason. Not even willing to test
@@seanm4208
Arena Fox and Gamer gave random layouts (RNG) and gamer platforms you cannot pass through so characters can easily keep rickashaying off the top platforms over and over again.
Unove has a layout which would lead to camping.
Spectral Arena Ferox was on a set layout everytime and the hazards off versions for both gamer and ferox feature no ceilings.
@@seanm4208 Also has to come down to Blast Zones.
And also characters like Little Mac and Ganondorf can get easilt screwd, which is why Duck Hunt was banned.
thank you for making a dedicated video for this. also, you are the first person i have seen advocating for smashville hazards on and off to be considered separate stages. smart.
7 more days 🙂
Stormra FENERBAHCE
13:38
Gonna hard disagree there.
The foreground issue really bothers me not because of the issue itself, but because people are making this a huge deal. It's not seizure-inducing (like Final Destination's background) nor does it obstruct the main action on stage. It only shows up when a player goes off-stage on the right side. It's annoying, but not impossible to deal with, so unless a lot of matches or sets are lost because of this one thing that appears in the right side of the stage near the bottom blast zone, I don't see why we can't have it as a legal stage.
Hey hey the shy guys might not drop food with items off, like melee. #randallhope
Arena ferox hazards off doesnt transform. Its just 3 platforms in unique locations compared to other stages.
One problem I have with the competitive players in Smash is this weird resistance to thinks that alter the stage and make you have to play differently. "OH NO, YOU MIGHT GET 10 HEALTH BACK IF YOU HIT THE SHYGUYS AND GET THE FOOD." Are we really going to say thats an issue. You aren't talking about a lot of health and it is something for both players. It's something you both have to consider when playing and take advantage of that. A similar case can be made for Pokemon Stadium 2. "OH NO THERE IS A WALL SOMETIMES." Yeah, then play around it. It's not like the stage doesn't telegraph the change. Moreover, this was on in Melee. Same for a lot of stages. You can have some variety. I'm not saying to play on Flat Zone. But I think the community needs to not be so quick to bad. Nothing wrong with a stage list with a lot of variety.
The 10 health food thing is an issue because it basically randomly rewards one player over the other for winning neutral as the shyguys happened to bring a bunch of food. That sucks and shouldnt be allowed.
As for walls, walls suck because they lead to super skewed neutral interactions which can promote camping and in some cases, infinites. Melee allows it because they dont have many stages (though some people advocate banning it anyway). Its just a dangerous thing to have in the stagelist that needs to be considered. I dont think its always a dealbreaker but its definitely cause for thought
it seems kind of hypocritical (or at least inconsistent). they seem to disapprove of luck based elements in stages, yet randall is okay
@@Underworlder5 Randal isnt luck based. Randal has a set pattern. You can just look at the timer and know where he is
ESAM is the only person I know who want to legalize so many stages. Every time I bring up legal stages people never want any hazards and if there is even something slightly odd they automatically say no to it.
I feel like I’m the only person in the competitive scene that wishes everyone would stop bein pussies about stages. Like honestly i feel like we’ve morphed the game into something else. Like not doin sudden death, the lack of stages. If you’re good at smash you’re good at smash. I understand the reasoning behind all these rules don’t get me wrong. And it is probably for the best this way. But lylat does need to knock its shit off haha
i question why the competitive scene is so restrictive. they call themselves the best smash players, yet they lack flexibility. if they truly want to show they are skilled, they should get thrown out of the comfort zone from time to time. also, the new sudden death looks very climactic. i can imagine amazing plays being made during sudden death
@@Underworlder5 The thing about being competitive is that well... You want an environment that can truly show skill and not an environment that punishes somebody for random reasons. Sudden Death, for example, would be incredibly unrewarding mainly because of the bomb drops, they are completely random and not in your control, how can you say that you are skillful if you won to something you didn't even do? The idea of "Lacking Flexibility" may be true, however, having legal stages is so that *every* playstyle is alright to play rather than a select few. If Great Cave Offensive or Temple were legal, it would reward very fast characters with the ability to get away, and would incredibly punish characters that don't have those options, in which case would make characters such as Ganondorf completely unviable in the meta.
Obviously, it's good to be flexible, but being competitive also correlates to having a fair ruleset that everyone can say "Wow that guy's good" rather than just "Wow that guy was really unlucky".
A competitive game calls for a competitive rule set that encourages player skill and mentality while maintaining balance and fairplay which is just a set and stone concept. Introducing factors that contribute to an anti competitive environment hurts the scene and the game as a whole. With a fair ruleset, it's easy to differentiate the good from the best which is what Smashers strive for. Otherwise the game will be set on whoever has the luckiest luck of the other.
@@trustynail8762 Didn't they get rid of the bombs in Sudden Death?
12:21 , was that a wavedash from DS?
Waveland
God I have been waiting for this video!!!!
Do the platforms on Arena Ferox still act as ceilings with hazards off? My understanding was that it was just the slanted platform layout.
Yea, I'm not watching competitive Ultimate. This is going to be boring to watch soon after release just like Smash 4. Some of these bans are honestly really some of the smallest reasons, and I don't believe Smash is *entirely* about only you and your opponent, but a little bit of the stage itself. Banning stages and characters before the game even comes out is not a good sign either, because we won't entirely know how everything works until we actually have a month of time messing with everything.
The competitive community is seemly jumping the gun at this point and which is why I prefer the older meta of smash like melee.
Melee banned all the fun stages too LMFAO and they’d ban stadium if it didn’t leave them with 5 stages
@@imESAM Melee has every right to ban all the stages they did, however they partially also didn't ban Stadium as they felt it wasn't as effective or random inducing like all the other stages they have banned. Yoshi's on Brawl is legal as well, little slumps on the edge of the stage is not random and cannot be used to a whole entire advantage to a character. Yes characters do benefit from stages, and that's okay as there is no way to make everything completely balanced. I'm also not sure what you thought when I was mentioning stages, and I'm not sure why you assumed I was speaking of all other stages in melee besides the actual legal ones.
@@imESAM That comment you placed as well is a complete analogy on how the competitive ultimate community is jumping the gun too. Just jumping straight in without actually understanding the context at first hand and taking a bit of thought before responding/reacting.
I have to agree with @Phetch on this one. The comp scene has become extremely boring and honestly has bigger pansies then actual randoms. You're not a real pro player if you ban each and every single possible thing you're not able to deal with, that just makes you look bad, especially to other communities. This won't bring anyone in, not even spectators.
And the fact we're banning stages before the game has even came out is pretty sad and has made Smash a laughing stock among other comp communities. Not even a weak comp scene like CoD bans maps before release. This is an all-time low and honestly Smash Ultimate's competitive scene is not going to survive as a result, it's too "babified."
Randal in melee is accepted because it's not random and both parties have to deal with it. a Good majority of Ultimate's stages are the same way, what's happening here is Smash 4 players, who are the dumbest of the bunch, are banning each and every single stage because they don't want to think about more than anything than a flat generic stage. This isn't professionalism, this is dumbing down in its defined form. We look so bad in the eyes of others it's probably going to become a meme. Hell, some TH-camrs are already memeing on us.
Just stop. Stop banning for the dumbest reasons that a bad player can't work around, this is suppose to be the PRO scene. Name one other professional scene that banes places for having something non-symetrical in it. Fuck's sake even Nascar figured this out, they have tracks that have hills, bumbs, twists and turns that some car builds, and some racers could struggle with, but it's still up to the *racer* to figure it out.
And if you respond with "Well this isn't Nascar LMFAO" then that shows who you truly are, because your comment to Phetch was extremely rude and dismissive. Changed my mind on subscribing. Cheers.
Ha got emm
4:00 Yoshi's Island Melee is drastically different from its Melee variation ESAM-2018
Damn. I was excited for a Lylat that's not jank.
Oh well.
#banlylat
Maybe when you turn items off, food on shy guys disappear and you still get Randal. It worked like that in smashville in smash 4
Do you think stage transition should be legal?
This is the smash community we are talking about, it would be nice but I highly doubt it as people will het mad if they die because of it
I think it's at least worth testing. It could be pretty hype for spectators
Yeah I definitely agree, it would be hype
Absolutely FANtastic
The one thing that is certain is that All hazards off to make the tournament rules more accessible is Dumb for a few reasons
Depends which stage. Most stages are better hazards off, as they make the game more fair, but sometimes it's fine to have a stage with hazards on. For example dreamland
He didn't do the cringey bye thing at the end of the video. That makes me so happy.
Hot Take: All Stages should be legal if their Hazards are off
But hazards off makes a stage FD.
You'd essentially be playing a different looking FD, no point of making all stages legal.
CharIsFar But the hazards off toggle keep the original layout
@@ratasrevueltos I stand corrected. FD with stage length differences
Reset Bomb forest is terrible for competitive play, even without hazards on.
@@Mrhellslayerz there are also walk-off ledges, where characters like little mac and cloud would be left with no weaknesses
Btw The Lylat thing happens on WarioWare and hazards off Pictochat too and it can hypothetically happen on any stage.
Smash is not a fighting game btw
KeYo Just watch the video before you comment goddamn brew
He called Smash a fighting game in the first 5 seconds, that's why
KeYo Smash is a fighting game in the sense that people smack each other around and make it competitive. We arent a traditional fighter like tekken or sf but that whole platform fighter thing. Still a fighting game, just not the same as traditional ones
its just sad the community is disagreeing over stages, OP.
I know smash is a fighting game, I'm just poking fun to the fact that the fgc doesn't consider it to be one
Regarding Castle Siege, the foreground issue is resolved by the new smash radar. Even if you can't see your character directly, you can see the positions via the radar.
The fruits don't show up if items are off on Yoshi's Story IIRC
I found this video super helpful as someone who enjoys playing 1v1 smash with competition-like rules but is looking for stage diversity without going battlefield mode for everything. In a 4 person brawl, I usually say throw it all in there and make it a party. But 1v1 I want it to be down to fighting skill without drastic stage interference. Just my preference. Appreciate the thoughts ESAM!
I agree for the most part except for Yoshi's Story, Town and City, and Arena Ferox. The only reason there was food for Yoshi's is because they had items on, if you played on any stage that has shyguys or balloons with food items turned on, they will carry it. For Town and City, Hazards should be on. With them off, the middle platform stays at the top and is static. This could very easily lead to circle camping on the platforms and you could very easily run away from someone with a bad recovery and would be punished heavily if they tried to intervene. Sure, the laddering is a bit of an issue, but it's a very rare occurrence, and would be much preferable over circle camping and a potential ban. Arena Ferox in Hazards off no longer transforms, it just keeps the first layout, and the statues no longer have hurtboxes, meaning there will be no ceiling, meaning it has a unique and different layout, being an amazing stage to play on. Also Skyloft and Wuhu Island would also be great stages. Skyloft doesn't transform and keeps the unique triplat layout. Wuhu Island, I agree, a really big stage, possibly too big for singles, but what about doubles? I personally believe this would be an amazing doubles only stage. Sure we really haven't had that before, but we can always try it out. (Also please fix FoD and CS I love these two stages)
I like this channel. Both Compet and casual friendly
12:44 Props for using Imogen Heap Hide and Seek!
Very good video my man, you talk very fast the whole time lol I wanted you to take a deep breath to relax by the end
I was playing as Bowser against a Pikachu on Castle Siege. I took over the lower left side of the slant and it raised the Pikachu up high enough for my fair.
Hopefully the day 1 patch fixes that FoD dramedrop issue, because it needs to be legal. And can someone confirm if Shy Guys still drop food on Yoshi's Story with items off (and selected off individually as well)?