Thanks for inviting me to this one! Super fun to hang out with the group, plus it was the perfect opportunity to get less rusty at HK after not playing for a few months lmao
I didn’t realize there was someone named hope. So when he said hope got me at the end, I was thinking metaphorically he had hope he would win and that was his downfall.
Another great manhunt! GG and thanks again for inviting me, I feel like im getting better at hk pvp every time I get destroyed by you in a new video KEKW
These videos are fundamentally interesting from how you hear the hunters and see the fireborn, and both sides talk about the game state from their limited info, even with the post edit notes from fire not commenting on things that he knows in hindsight. It’s like just a really compelling narrative structure
EnterUsername is my favorite hunter in this one i think the pure panic learning about nmg was hilarious! this was a good fight across the board! thanks fire and hunter squad!
I love the new ruleset! It's great that the speedrunner is capped on upgrades so that they have to go into "go mode" eventually. I also love seeing hunters back in boss arenas, and having that balanced by throwing bosses into their screen that they can pre-clear. Also, hilarious that korz pre-emptively started routing for tram pass even before the lifeline because of the trauma from last game. Great move too, because tram pass was too far for the other hunters to come to by the time they realized you were there.
I disagree, I think the cap is a bad idea. This is supposed to be Speedrunner vs. "Hunters", not "Defenders". Not having a cap gives the hunters incentive to keep hunting, instead of just camping Watchers until he shows up and ganking him
I agree theoretically, but there's just too many places for the speedrunner to be once they get dream nail. In addition to guarding all major objectives, hunters would have to keep an eye out on mask shards, charms (and notches), spell upgrades, and even things like shade cloak (or otherwise just let fire scale for free). I think one way around that is to have the hunters scale with time (give them VS, quick slash, extra mask, etc) or to increase the number of hunters as the game goes on, but adding a cap is a simpler solution that also keeps games short.
Love these! I think you're really close to finding a good rythm to these things, it feels mostly fair between the two teams, or at least better than it used to be. Hope to see more!
I don't know, limiting what the speedrunner can get just seems to allow the hunters to stack one dreamer. The threat of a super chargered speedrunner is what drives the hunters to not just guard one location. If they let you get vessels, notches, nail upgrades, and anything else, that's on them.
The problem is that it's way easier to collect upgrades because there's so many different options. Dreamers are easy for the hunters to guard and predict because there are just three of them. But I could easily head to any mask, vessel frag, charm, relic, geo chest, pail ore, notch, etc instead and evade detection because there's always like 5 branching paths closeby. The optimal strat for every game under the previous rules was to collect every upgrade possible before going for Dreamers... but it's just insanely tedious. The games would be like 4 hours long. I've chosen not to do that in any of the games because it'd be really boring for the other players and honestly would feel kinda disrespectful to their time. So I figured it might as well be set in the rules if I'm going to unofficially limit myself anyway. But yeah, I agree that hunters need incentive to leave dreamers. Imo, they do theoretically have enough reasons to leave dreamers, but there's an experience gap that makes chasing room to room super hard for them. Also, chasing behind someone tends to result in getting smacked each time you dash. So better for them to just stick to where they know they'll find me.
@@fireb0rnThis might only be a possible option for a longer style of hunt category like going for Radiance, but what about having some of the minibosses or unique optional challenges unlock abilities for the hunters if they clear them? Clearing Mr Mushroom could grant them something crazy like sporeshroom, fighting through the queens garden mantid could grant them the longer nail, defeating the soul sanctum miniboss could grant them a basic spell, clearing nosk could grant a summon charm like the mini aspids or the spider buddy, among a few ideas. Maybe even have a balance between ones that unlock it for all hunters, and more difficult ones offering stronger but more individual upgrades. Some of them can even be generally out of the way of the speedrunner's route. That way, there's a side incentive for hunters to seek both power for the team and individual power spikes. It could make new windows for the speedrunner to advance their gameplan while hunters boost themselves for a later encounter instead.
@@fireb0rn Maybe there could be a sound warning whenever you enter Watchers arena/Uumuu arena/Distant Village? I feel one of the big reasons they camp Dreamers is because you could lose them, sneakily get a Dreamer, and they would be none the wiser. And if they were to try and defend a Dreamer you already got, that would result in a major loss of time and map control. If there is a sound that warns them whenever you're about to get a dreamer, it might be better for them to chase you and patrol, so they will be in position to cut off your exits when you try it.
@@fireb0rn these problems can probably be reproached in some more natural ways. -you already have some hunter scaling when gaining certain items, increase what that covers. Perhaps they get a charm notch with some multiple of yours that they can fill from a select pool. -hunters have a large skill gap to make allow you to actually win while beating 4 players at once (not ment to be a knock on them or you, this is a very fun form of show match afterall) an improvement on the lifelines system would help them be better predicters of your movements and encourage you to be more creative. Something that gives them less information, but much more frequently to help them actually track you and encourage them out of guarding. A sound that plays if you are near their room for example would encourage them to scour instead of sitting back and checking the map every 15 minutes. -changing the players starting gear/location, including yourself could actually be a good way to spice it up. Image you must beat the hollow night after getting void soul (or the radiance if you get a certain amount of gear so farming is nerfed a bit), but you already start with, say Claw. Hunters then start in semi random locations around the map to mix up routing. -make benches a one time heal but not reset spawn locations to allow them to be strategic resources. This would have to be modded admittedly. -allow hunters to change respawn locations, but give them a respawn timer so they can more easily return to important locations, but you are still rewarded for dying. Not quite as compatible with the above. If these, or other solutions could be done as mods that are automated in, That could really help make it nicer for you and the players. It would be really neat though I understand if it isn't practical. I love the content, these suggestions come from a desire to se it grow and evolve. My main pain points are as follows: hunters are scared to hunt past claw; you don't feel a pressure to do much beyond the obvious routes; gearing feels like its lame even though it's what is the correct play, and what I as a viewer want to see you do. I want you to do cool and zany tricks, but hunters just gaurd arenas and that doesn't leave you much room to do that. I want to see you pull out a strong combo of charms and gear, but you don't have many objectives to complete to win and hunters don't scale to adapt. I want to see you do cool routes, but with all progress being tied to your route, and hunters only having a few choke points, you don't have a lot of room to chang it up. Your rout was literally: false knight, hornet, claw, tram pass, crystal heart, dream nail... Outside of pass and a few side quests for items you just did everything in order until the dreamers. Then you died getting camped in the watcher fight by all the hunters like in some if the older runs because you were gear restricted. It was a little frustrating, like I get you want to be respectful of their time not grinding out every item but then they should be respectful of your time not just camping an objective with THEIR most degenerate strategy. Please still make these, but continue to tinker with them. I'll keep watching your awesome content, and I'll continue to give my mere opinions even if you don't take my suggestions in an effort to help you in the algorithms. Please have a lovely day!
This has to be my new favorite Vesselhunt video! I’m a huge fan of the unconventional routes caused by the hunters, from grabbing Tram Pass to Nailmaster’s Glory, amazing vid! Hope to see more hunts like this one
I am loving the hunter videos, I feel a good twist would be having a hunter or an additional one be a sort of "traitor" trying to help you out if possible 👀
Really cool ruleset actually. The only quirk left to figure out I'd say would be an incentive for the Hunters to not stack themselves on the last dreamer. I'm fine with them doing it on HK since it's the last boss. It just feels appropriate for a final showdown. But then again, Nailmaster's Glory is so strong that I guess it's enough of an incentive to not leave you alone for too long, so it sorta balances it out.
Ooh i'm excited for this one! This HK speedrunner vs hunter series is my favourite format on youtube right now. I love watching the little mindgames and fire's skill in action!
holy crap, the author of some of my favorite Pokémon fanfics (and Certified Cynthia Enjoyer) HopeStoryteller is playing with Fireborn?!?! Good for you!!! This is not a crossover I expected!
Rewatching it, the way the two hunters handled the Uumuu fight was so well done. Sort of tagging out to heal was an impressive strategy to keep the pressure on. Too bad fire got overwhelmed at watchers lmao
I love these and I instaclick every time one of them pops into my subscription box. I hope you keep doing these! And, if Silksong ever comes I hope there's a version of this in that game.
I didn't even think of that! Oh god the chaos of 5 hornets running around with like 15 movement abilities and tools each. Dang. There would be so many strategies... now I hope silksong gets a multiplayer DLC
Nailmasters glory truly is the exodia of PvP, this was so fun to watch! Doing False Knight fully at the start was so interesting, a real “never let them know your next move” sort of move haha so unexpected. Thanks for the video!
the upgrade cap is an interesting addition to the rules; certainly spices things up a bit. though I was hoping to at some point see you 112% the game just for the sake of it.
Waiting for the april fools video, Speedrunner vs 4 hunters but I don’t exist, where you full access to the map to see where hunters are, ability to warp, ability to insta-kill any boss, and can obtain any ability, but hunters don’t know this, kill you in 1 hit, and win if they call you out for “cheating”
I always love to see fun takes on hollow knight while we wait for silksong. I still haven't become uninterested in anything and even started playing again after a bit of a break. I love steel soul and how challenging it is, so I started trying to just run through the game as fast as I can with my own path (very slow don't get me wrong), and I was able to beat it in 2 hours and 7 minutes according to the save file in game. I didn't have a real timer because I play on switch, but I see it as impressive because I don't think I'm great at the game, but rather just good enough to make something happen. That's all, take care! I hope to see more videos soon!
I would love to see one rin without any lifelines, or given info (like the sound board) but with a ridiculous amount of hunters(idk something like 6 to 8 hunters) so the hunters have to try ti keep track of you and if they can they have the advantage but if you escape with your mindgames you can get stacked
When you tried to hide in the Greenpath near the trap enemy (forgot the name), I knew it was too obvious and expected them to see you. They are learning your tricks, now! Expecting them! I love that they thought you got Shade Soul via Elegant Key, instead of Dash Slash glitch. Now they are so sure you got to the Blue Lake. I assume they thought you defeated Gruz Mother already and that you get past it to the Blue Lake. You had a good call by not going there, because that threw them off. Btw. I really hope Silksong will have dedicated multiplayer, not just a mod. Not necessarily with a dedicated server, but just hosting mechanic. It would be great if the game had support for multiplayer game officially, letting people turn on and off stuff, adding teams etc.
I feel like banning D-Dark is a bit much since hunters can now do all the bosses with you. What we ended up seeing was them just pre-killing the bosses and waiting for you, which means you end up with the same insane boss fights you had before in the early days. You could fix this by allowing the speedrunner to get another mask, or some other minor buff. Because otherwise there’s no reason for them to not just pre-kill watchers and then wait there, they’d basically always have a win condition there.
Hey fireborne, im pretty sure you will never see this but i found a pretty game breaking glitch We all know about taking damage right before a boss starts to hit it during the starting animation for massive damage, but i found out you could actually do it without taking the damage by opening the charms menu and closing it right before the boss starting animation starts for MASSIVE damage just like the regular damage strat but risk free and easier Before the boss fight starts, open your charms menu, right before the opening sequence starts, close it. I am running this on patch 1.4.3.3
If you want a recommendation for limiting your power in future Speedrunners vs Hunters, you can consider limiting power by the completion percent the item gives. For example, this run you only allowed yourself to collect 1 mask, 1 vessel, 2 nail upgrades, and 2 charm notches. Those total 4% completion (1 each for masks, vessels, and nail upgrades), so between masks, vessels, and nail upgrades you're only allowed to collect 4 of them. This would open up an interesting choice between seeking out mask shards for more survivability (especially against players), seeking out nail upgrades to kill bosses faster, or going for a mix of both for a more well-rounded build. This opens up 2 immediate problems in that charm notches don't count towards completion percentage (which opens up the problem of the speedrunner being too strong right back up) and you never seem to go for soul vessels during your playthrough (which also adds extra power to the speedrunner), but it can be expanded to create a more interesting format. First, limiting your build by a certain completion percentage provides more choices in how you make your build. For example, if your limits were based on the completion percentage based on extra masks, soul fragments, nail arts, level 2 spells, and charms, then you would have to more carefully weigh the benefits of whether the option of using a charm is good in the short term vs how it affects your build in the long term, prevents you from purchasing most charm notches since most of them require a lot of charms (Salubra sells most of them), and you would need to choose between survivability, PVP combat effectiveness, and PVE combat effectiveness all throughout the game instead of getting all the PVP combat effectiveness you could ever want (excluding the hunter bans) while limiting survivability and PVE combat effectiveness. Second, the limit itself can be numerically adjusted based on feedback. For example, a limit of 9 would be just enough to fit your current build (Shade Soul, 3 nail arts, Nailmaster's Glory, 1 extra mask, 2 nail upgrades, and one additional charm (I saw you purchase Quick Focus so I assume that's what you equipped)), but you might find that either too limiting and increase the limit or find it too strong and reduce it so the hunters have more of a chance. There's a lot of ways you can adjust your power cap based on this metric to balance your own power limits between "getting every upgrade" and "not having enough power to get through various in-game challenges". Third, you can adjust how different upgrades affect the completion percentage based on perception and common bans. For example, making charm notches count as 1 completion percentage provides a limit to the charm builds you have available in a similar way to what you have in the current ruleset, while making Descending Dark cost 2 completion percentage gives your hunters another consideration when it comes to banning it (since DDark seems to be the only spell they ban). Finally, you can consider re-adding some of the power by offering distinct side challenges that let you obtain some extra power within the run. One of the problems with older rulesets (which you listed below) is that there wasn't any incentive to get you to not seek out extra upgrades until you know you can overpower the hunters, but one of the problems with most of the current rulesets is that there's no incentive for the hunters to leave the last dreamer to keep you from getting upgrades. For example, if you had "defeat Troupemaster Grimm" as a reward that offered extra power, then you could give the hunters an incentive to stop guarding a single dreamer. Realistically, I think the Grimm Troupe questline and the Colosseum of Fools would be the best ways to start with adding power questlines because they take place in an arena in a distinct location where the hunters can defend it practically and can offer distinct subgoals that alert the hunters that you're going for a particular questline.
1:17-1:19, the single jump he does between the bug enemies (idk name never played the game) shows an undescribable amount of game knowledge/skill even though its an extremely simple action. It's like watching NorthernLion play binding of isaac
You should troll the hunters one game ad go radiance, they will be confused why you take so long and if they don't notice you getting the stuff beforehand then it would be hilarious when you enter radiance at the end
So happy to see a new hunters vs. speedrunner, I just paused the vid at 0:27 to say, I hope you win again fireborn and show them how YOUR THE GOD GAMER~
I wish fire won that one, no offense but the hunters didnt really play that well this time. They just kept to themselves instead of working as a time, multiple times they said things like "im not gonna make it there in time so ill just not go" when if they did they prob couldve easily caught fire and trapped him idk just annoying
i don't know if possible but i would love a hunt where the hunters would have to gather the skills and upgrades themselves as well (maybe with more lifelines in return) so that if they wanted they could try to pre-emptivly get dash and/or claws before fire
I’d like to see a speedrunner vs speedrunner where you find someone equally as skilled as you and it could be some kind of competition(beating the game time, whoever dies loses, etc.)
I think an interesting idea for a future Speedrunner VS Hunters would be to have a bunch of Hunters (like 10+), but with the twist that they're on Steel Soul (so once they die, they're out), effectively giving you 2 possible win conditions, either beat THK, or kill all the Hunters (which effectively makes THK free). Alternatively, I'd love to see one these for True Ending.
I know you said at the end that you felt it was fairly balanced, but it always seems a bit unsatisfying when you have every hunter fully stacked on you and that's how it ends. I know that's part of the tension and high odds, but its definitely unfortunate when it plays out that way. I wonder...i have no idea what the code looks like on the back end, but if the mod can check which players are on a given screen is there a way to scale damage taken or given based on number of hunters in one place? Like hunters lose one nail upgrade only in the event that all four are in one area or a couple adjacent screens. But like you said maybe that would be an unneeded tweak since you felt it was fairly balanced even with a 4v1 + watchers.
It’s been years and fire has yet to call the hunters firefighters.
That's so fvckin' funny 😭
@@unknownperson8527 ikr he needs to call them that.
Yeah
That's genius
Why not just say fuck @@unknownperson8527
Thanks for inviting me to this one! Super fun to hang out with the group, plus it was the perfect opportunity to get less rusty at HK after not playing for a few months lmao
Thank you for playing (and editing the video)!!
Happy Pye Day!
PYE SWEEP
We love you pye
@@MalkonDova
I didn’t realize there was someone named hope. So when he said hope got me at the end, I was thinking metaphorically he had hope he would win and that was his downfall.
WAIT so it wasn't metaphorically. I feel silly right now 😅
this is what clued me in that it wasn't metaphorical lol. thanks for that, actually!
same😭
Another great manhunt!
GG and thanks again for inviting me, I feel like im getting better at hk pvp every time I get destroyed by you in a new video KEKW
Hey Skitter! Thanks a lot for playing, you've definitely improved a lot and it's scary haha.
*bughunt
Last time I was this early the crossroads weren’t forgotten yet
Omg sirpentious likes hollow knight????
a
That’s a nice one
@@imightbeaperson630 b
Last time I was early the knight wasn't even hollow
These videos are fundamentally interesting from how you hear the hunters and see the fireborn, and both sides talk about the game state from their limited info, even with the post edit notes from fire not commenting on things that he knows in hindsight. It’s like just a really compelling narrative structure
EnterUsername is my favorite hunter in this one i think
the pure panic learning about nmg was hilarious!
this was a good fight across the board! thanks fire and hunter squad!
#20:45 when the hunters thought he was at crystal peak to get elegant key, absolute peak strats by fireborn
I love the new ruleset! It's great that the speedrunner is capped on upgrades so that they have to go into "go mode" eventually. I also love seeing hunters back in boss arenas, and having that balanced by throwing bosses into their screen that they can pre-clear.
Also, hilarious that korz pre-emptively started routing for tram pass even before the lifeline because of the trauma from last game. Great move too, because tram pass was too far for the other hunters to come to by the time they realized you were there.
I disagree, I think the cap is a bad idea. This is supposed to be Speedrunner vs. "Hunters", not "Defenders". Not having a cap gives the hunters incentive to keep hunting, instead of just camping Watchers until he shows up and ganking him
I agree theoretically, but there's just too many places for the speedrunner to be once they get dream nail. In addition to guarding all major objectives, hunters would have to keep an eye out on mask shards, charms (and notches), spell upgrades, and even things like shade cloak (or otherwise just let fire scale for free). I think one way around that is to have the hunters scale with time (give them VS, quick slash, extra mask, etc) or to increase the number of hunters as the game goes on, but adding a cap is a simpler solution that also keeps games short.
@@forresttclabaugh649But then the speedrunner would become too OP after getting everything, unless Hunters also get upgrades
“Little known fact: Charm notches grant full heals” well now that’s a well known fact XD
This probably sounds crazy but, Fire.. I would love to see a speed runner vs 4 hunters but the ending you have to get, is to beat radiance.
Hell
NO HE LIKED THE COMMENT WAIT
Well, you got your wish buddy.
@@timeless9534 yurrrrr
I can’t believe they added four more knights to beat before reaching Lurien and even let them chase you out of the arena.
Love these! I think you're really close to finding a good rythm to these things, it feels mostly fair between the two teams, or at least better than it used to be. Hope to see more!
I don't know, limiting what the speedrunner can get just seems to allow the hunters to stack one dreamer. The threat of a super chargered speedrunner is what drives the hunters to not just guard one location. If they let you get vessels, notches, nail upgrades, and anything else, that's on them.
The problem is that it's way easier to collect upgrades because there's so many different options. Dreamers are easy for the hunters to guard and predict because there are just three of them. But I could easily head to any mask, vessel frag, charm, relic, geo chest, pail ore, notch, etc instead and evade detection because there's always like 5 branching paths closeby.
The optimal strat for every game under the previous rules was to collect every upgrade possible before going for Dreamers... but it's just insanely tedious. The games would be like 4 hours long. I've chosen not to do that in any of the games because it'd be really boring for the other players and honestly would feel kinda disrespectful to their time. So I figured it might as well be set in the rules if I'm going to unofficially limit myself anyway.
But yeah, I agree that hunters need incentive to leave dreamers. Imo, they do theoretically have enough reasons to leave dreamers, but there's an experience gap that makes chasing room to room super hard for them. Also, chasing behind someone tends to result in getting smacked each time you dash. So better for them to just stick to where they know they'll find me.
@@fireb0rnThis might only be a possible option for a longer style of hunt category like going for Radiance, but what about having some of the minibosses or unique optional challenges unlock abilities for the hunters if they clear them? Clearing Mr Mushroom could grant them something crazy like sporeshroom, fighting through the queens garden mantid could grant them the longer nail, defeating the soul sanctum miniboss could grant them a basic spell, clearing nosk could grant a summon charm like the mini aspids or the spider buddy, among a few ideas.
Maybe even have a balance between ones that unlock it for all hunters, and more difficult ones offering stronger but more individual upgrades. Some of them can even be generally out of the way of the speedrunner's route. That way, there's a side incentive for hunters to seek both power for the team and individual power spikes. It could make new windows for the speedrunner to advance their gameplan while hunters boost themselves for a later encounter instead.
@@fireb0rn
Maybe there could be a sound warning whenever you enter Watchers arena/Uumuu arena/Distant Village?
I feel one of the big reasons they camp Dreamers is because you could lose them, sneakily get a Dreamer, and they would be none the wiser. And if they were to try and defend a Dreamer you already got, that would result in a major loss of time and map control.
If there is a sound that warns them whenever you're about to get a dreamer, it might be better for them to chase you and patrol, so they will be in position to cut off your exits when you try it.
@@fireb0rn these problems can probably be reproached in some more natural ways.
-you already have some hunter scaling when gaining certain items, increase what that covers. Perhaps they get a charm notch with some multiple of yours that they can fill from a select pool.
-hunters have a large skill gap to make allow you to actually win while beating 4 players at once (not ment to be a knock on them or you, this is a very fun form of show match afterall) an improvement on the lifelines system would help them be better predicters of your movements and encourage you to be more creative. Something that gives them less information, but much more frequently to help them actually track you and encourage them out of guarding. A sound that plays if you are near their room for example would encourage them to scour instead of sitting back and checking the map every 15 minutes.
-changing the players starting gear/location, including yourself could actually be a good way to spice it up. Image you must beat the hollow night after getting void soul (or the radiance if you get a certain amount of gear so farming is nerfed a bit), but you already start with, say Claw. Hunters then start in semi random locations around the map to mix up routing.
-make benches a one time heal but not reset spawn locations to allow them to be strategic resources. This would have to be modded admittedly.
-allow hunters to change respawn locations, but give them a respawn timer so they can more easily return to important locations, but you are still rewarded for dying. Not quite as compatible with the above.
If these, or other solutions could be done as mods that are automated in, That could really help make it nicer for you and the players. It would be really neat though I understand if it isn't practical. I love the content, these suggestions come from a desire to se it grow and evolve. My main pain points are as follows: hunters are scared to hunt past claw; you don't feel a pressure to do much beyond the obvious routes; gearing feels like its lame even though it's what is the correct play, and what I as a viewer want to see you do. I want you to do cool and zany tricks, but hunters just gaurd arenas and that doesn't leave you much room to do that. I want to see you pull out a strong combo of charms and gear, but you don't have many objectives to complete to win and hunters don't scale to adapt. I want to see you do cool routes, but with all progress being tied to your route, and hunters only having a few choke points, you don't have a lot of room to chang it up. Your rout was literally: false knight, hornet, claw, tram pass, crystal heart, dream nail... Outside of pass and a few side quests for items you just did everything in order until the dreamers. Then you died getting camped in the watcher fight by all the hunters like in some if the older runs because you were gear restricted. It was a little frustrating, like I get you want to be respectful of their time not grinding out every item but then they should be respectful of your time not just camping an objective with THEIR most degenerate strategy. Please still make these, but continue to tinker with them. I'll keep watching your awesome content, and I'll continue to give my mere opinions even if you don't take my suggestions in an effort to help you in the algorithms. Please have a lovely day!
@@fireb0rnyou should consider reducing the lifeline cool down to 5 after the first dreamer it won't be a perfect fix but I think it could help
Hope *outside false night: he will be here any moment.
Fire *has already started the fight
24:35 - "Oh God, he got out." was sais with such fear that I almost choked on my yogurt-
This is such a great format, and being able to hear the hunters try to strategize is so nice.
This has to be my new favorite Vesselhunt video! I’m a huge fan of the unconventional routes caused by the hunters, from grabbing Tram Pass to Nailmaster’s Glory, amazing vid! Hope to see more hunts like this one
Ohhhh can't wait to watch this one tomorrow!! 🎉
2:38 Casually plays Hollow Knight like an absolute villain
Good morning hollow knight fandom, what kind of insanity have we insaned on this day?
Your pfp, what is it?
@@SirBiscuit0YTa currently unfinished design
@@BoxuTrev I'd say it's pretty much finished
@@akki3535 nah, i still need a torso, arms, and basically every part of the body that isn’t the head
Oh
HELL YEAH MORE OF THESE
I'm surprised there's not an Item Sync variant to automatically upgrade the hunters when the speedrunner picks up items.
I am loving the hunter videos, I feel a good twist would be having a hunter or an additional one be a sort of "traitor" trying to help you out if possible 👀
Really cool ruleset actually. The only quirk left to figure out I'd say would be an incentive for the Hunters to not stack themselves on the last dreamer. I'm fine with them doing it on HK since it's the last boss. It just feels appropriate for a final showdown.
But then again, Nailmaster's Glory is so strong that I guess it's enough of an incentive to not leave you alone for too long, so it sorta balances it out.
I love u fire. Just finished 3hr speed run nd ur the one who really got me into this amazing game!! Thank you!
I love this format. Your competitors were very good, knowledgeable, and entertaining. Props to them!
Ooh i'm excited for this one! This HK speedrunner vs hunter series is my favourite format on youtube right now. I love watching the little mindgames and fire's skill in action!
holy crap, the author of some of my favorite Pokémon fanfics (and Certified Cynthia Enjoyer) HopeStoryteller is playing with Fireborn?!?! Good for you!!! This is not a crossover I expected!
I see you are a fellow person of culture.
Rewatching it, the way the two hunters handled the Uumuu fight was so well done. Sort of tagging out to heal was an impressive strategy to keep the pressure on. Too bad fire got overwhelmed at watchers lmao
This is probably the most challenging hunters i ever seen, they almost follow you every step on the begining, ggs.
Next one: "Speedrunner vs 5 Hunters Glass Soul... when will Silksong come..."
Another great vid Fire! Thx for doin this all o U.
Im a simple man, i see fireborn post, i click
I love these and I instaclick every time one of them pops into my subscription box. I hope you keep doing these! And, if Silksong ever comes I hope there's a version of this in that game.
I didn't even think of that! Oh god the chaos of 5 hornets running around with like 15 movement abilities and tools each. Dang. There would be so many strategies... now I hope silksong gets a multiplayer DLC
Thank you! We will try it out for sure.
If silksong ever releases that is
Nailmasters glory truly is the exodia of PvP, this was so fun to watch! Doing False Knight fully at the start was so interesting, a real “never let them know your next move” sort of move haha so unexpected. Thanks for the video!
nice, loved the previous one, happy to see this!
Im in an exam week and this videos make my day, so good content. It is awesome that you still stay active in a Game which was released 7 years ago
the upgrade cap is an interesting addition to the rules; certainly spices things up a bit.
though I was hoping to at some point see you 112% the game just for the sake of it.
Im new to Hollow Knight but am absolutely fascinated by your 4v1 videos. So impressive!!!
Waiting for the april fools video,
Speedrunner vs 4 hunters but I don’t exist,
where you full access to the map to see where hunters are, ability to warp, ability to insta-kill any boss, and can obtain any ability,
but hunters don’t know this, kill you in 1 hit, and win if they call you out for “cheating”
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this but the use of Penny's big breakaway ost for the background music really fits and is a really neat choice.
I always love to see fun takes on hollow knight while we wait for silksong. I still haven't become uninterested in anything and even started playing again after a bit of a break. I love steel soul and how challenging it is, so I started trying to just run through the game as fast as I can with my own path (very slow don't get me wrong), and I was able to beat it in 2 hours and 7 minutes according to the save file in game. I didn't have a real timer because I play on switch, but I see it as impressive because I don't think I'm great at the game, but rather just good enough to make something happen. That's all, take care! I hope to see more videos soon!
These are fascinating! I'm going to watch these at work with a big ol smile on my face.
On the edge of my seat the whole time! Haven't smiled so much in a while, so thanks!!!
I love the NMG strat, it’s so menacing
I like the new rules of the hunters having to fight bosses too. Feels fresh!
Always love watching these as your movement is so clean.
Love the new rules! This is one of the closest and best episodes of speedrunners v hunters yet!
Love this series! And the way you’ve honed the ruleset!
This is the most entertaining speedrunner vs hunters I've seen in a while. It was so tense the whole time
That fact really was little known. I definitely thought you were just dead after picking up the notch. Crazy play.
These are probably one of my favorite Hollow Knight videos!
love the use of penny's big breakaway for the music, truly whimsical
I would love to see one rin without any lifelines, or given info (like the sound board) but with a ridiculous amount of hunters(idk something like 6 to 8 hunters) so the hunters have to try ti keep track of you and if they can they have the advantage but if you escape with your mindgames you can get stacked
This was a fun one! I like the inclusion of Hunter's having bosses and being able to enter the arenas. Everyone did well!
When you tried to hide in the Greenpath near the trap enemy (forgot the name), I knew it was too obvious and expected them to see you. They are learning your tricks, now! Expecting them!
I love that they thought you got Shade Soul via Elegant Key, instead of Dash Slash glitch.
Now they are so sure you got to the Blue Lake. I assume they thought you defeated Gruz Mother already and that you get past it to the Blue Lake. You had a good call by not going there, because that threw them off.
Btw. I really hope Silksong will have dedicated multiplayer, not just a mod. Not necessarily with a dedicated server, but just hosting mechanic. It would be great if the game had support for multiplayer game officially, letting people turn on and off stuff, adding teams etc.
I feel like banning D-Dark is a bit much since hunters can now do all the bosses with you. What we ended up seeing was them just pre-killing the bosses and waiting for you, which means you end up with the same insane boss fights you had before in the early days. You could fix this by allowing the speedrunner to get another mask, or some other minor buff. Because otherwise there’s no reason for them to not just pre-kill watchers and then wait there, they’d basically always have a win condition there.
Finally! I love this speedrunner vs hunters format, thanks!
yay a new hollow knight manhunt can't wait for more keep up the great work
Hey fireborne, im pretty sure you will never see this but i found a pretty game breaking glitch
We all know about taking damage right before a boss starts to hit it during the starting animation for massive damage, but i found out you could actually do it without taking the damage by opening the charms menu and closing it right before the boss starting animation starts for MASSIVE damage just like the regular damage strat but risk free and easier
Before the boss fight starts, open your charms menu, right before the opening sequence starts, close it.
I am running this on patch 1.4.3.3
If you want a recommendation for limiting your power in future Speedrunners vs Hunters, you can consider limiting power by the completion percent the item gives. For example, this run you only allowed yourself to collect 1 mask, 1 vessel, 2 nail upgrades, and 2 charm notches. Those total 4% completion (1 each for masks, vessels, and nail upgrades), so between masks, vessels, and nail upgrades you're only allowed to collect 4 of them. This would open up an interesting choice between seeking out mask shards for more survivability (especially against players), seeking out nail upgrades to kill bosses faster, or going for a mix of both for a more well-rounded build. This opens up 2 immediate problems in that charm notches don't count towards completion percentage (which opens up the problem of the speedrunner being too strong right back up) and you never seem to go for soul vessels during your playthrough (which also adds extra power to the speedrunner), but it can be expanded to create a more interesting format.
First, limiting your build by a certain completion percentage provides more choices in how you make your build. For example, if your limits were based on the completion percentage based on extra masks, soul fragments, nail arts, level 2 spells, and charms, then you would have to more carefully weigh the benefits of whether the option of using a charm is good in the short term vs how it affects your build in the long term, prevents you from purchasing most charm notches since most of them require a lot of charms (Salubra sells most of them), and you would need to choose between survivability, PVP combat effectiveness, and PVE combat effectiveness all throughout the game instead of getting all the PVP combat effectiveness you could ever want (excluding the hunter bans) while limiting survivability and PVE combat effectiveness.
Second, the limit itself can be numerically adjusted based on feedback. For example, a limit of 9 would be just enough to fit your current build (Shade Soul, 3 nail arts, Nailmaster's Glory, 1 extra mask, 2 nail upgrades, and one additional charm (I saw you purchase Quick Focus so I assume that's what you equipped)), but you might find that either too limiting and increase the limit or find it too strong and reduce it so the hunters have more of a chance. There's a lot of ways you can adjust your power cap based on this metric to balance your own power limits between "getting every upgrade" and "not having enough power to get through various in-game challenges".
Third, you can adjust how different upgrades affect the completion percentage based on perception and common bans. For example, making charm notches count as 1 completion percentage provides a limit to the charm builds you have available in a similar way to what you have in the current ruleset, while making Descending Dark cost 2 completion percentage gives your hunters another consideration when it comes to banning it (since DDark seems to be the only spell they ban).
Finally, you can consider re-adding some of the power by offering distinct side challenges that let you obtain some extra power within the run. One of the problems with older rulesets (which you listed below) is that there wasn't any incentive to get you to not seek out extra upgrades until you know you can overpower the hunters, but one of the problems with most of the current rulesets is that there's no incentive for the hunters to leave the last dreamer to keep you from getting upgrades. For example, if you had "defeat Troupemaster Grimm" as a reward that offered extra power, then you could give the hunters an incentive to stop guarding a single dreamer. Realistically, I think the Grimm Troupe questline and the Colosseum of Fools would be the best ways to start with adding power questlines because they take place in an arena in a distinct location where the hunters can defend it practically and can offer distinct subgoals that alert the hunters that you're going for a particular questline.
Just gotta say, I appreciate the Penny's Big Breakaway music, that's a solid game with a fun OST
I would be interested in you being in the call with them, there's always super interesting differences in strategy when that happens.
will never get tired of watching these
GG! OMG the hunters did soooo wel! The resting ground and Uumuu parts are intense And of course the Watcher Knights fight lol
I love the intro! The music is so fitting in the background!
The amount of restrictions being placed on the speed runner is getting a bit crazy
Wow, that nmg boosted combat was so cool to watch. Amazing video as always Fire!
When you make someone with powers again, give someone a teleport power
Years and this legend still giving videos to us
Fireborn, your 12-14 year old classical music vids are fire. I'm honestly shaking im anticipation of the next big piece you'll play
25:28 you’re the only that had adrenaline they wasn’t even thinking of killing you😅😅
That Watched Knight fight was CRAZY I was on the edge of my seat; great job everyone!!
Always happy to get another one of these
Jesus fire is getting GOOD at using those nail arts
My boy really making sly proud right there
Ngl I thought I was watching a video that was years old lol
i LOVE these so much, ill always watch them
I love how despite the fact they had him outnumbered they were still terrified of him, that was hilarious
So hyped for this video I will update after I've finished it
This looks so fun, im gonna have to do this with my friends
This blew up and for good reason
We've all be waiting for this
Holy moly. Hunters did very good this time. That was satisfying to watch ❤
Came for the HK God, stayed for Hope's laugh, great Vid
It feels like if you ever get corned by all 4 hunters in this rule set you’re kinda done which I guess makes sense
Fire without arms, legs, deaf, blind and sick (but with 30 segs of prep time) VS 5 Hunters with Full Equipment
I was really invested in this one damn so close!
Finally a run, where actually hunters had something to do and not just waiting for fire to show up, it was a great show!
Oh man that was a good fight! This is a super fun ruleset
I love adding the bosses in for the hunters, its such a good idea
1:17-1:19, the single jump he does between the bug enemies (idk name never played the game) shows an undescribable amount of game knowledge/skill even though its an extremely simple action. It's like watching NorthernLion play binding of isaac
Always a good day when Fire uploads
You should troll the hunters one game ad go radiance, they will be confused why you take so long and if they don't notice you getting the stuff beforehand then it would be hilarious when you enter radiance at the end
So happy to see a new hunters vs. speedrunner, I just paused the vid at 0:27 to say, I hope you win again fireborn and show them how YOUR THE GOD GAMER~
I wish fire won that one, no offense but the hunters didnt really play that well this time. They just kept to themselves instead of working as a time, multiple times they said things like "im not gonna make it there in time so ill just not go" when if they did they prob couldve easily caught fire and trapped him idk just annoying
i don't know if possible but i would love a hunt where the hunters would have to gather the skills and upgrades themselves as well (maybe with more lifelines in return) so that if they wanted they could try to pre-emptivly get dash and/or claws before fire
I’d like to see a speedrunner vs speedrunner where you find someone equally as skilled as you and it could be some kind of competition(beating the game time, whoever dies loses, etc.)
Bro, fire you are literally crazy at this game! It’s insane!!!
I absolutely love these videos💜💜 I think we're all so glad to see more
I think an interesting idea for a future Speedrunner VS Hunters would be to have a bunch of Hunters (like 10+), but with the twist that they're on Steel Soul (so once they die, they're out), effectively giving you 2 possible win conditions, either beat THK, or kill all the Hunters (which effectively makes THK free).
Alternatively, I'd love to see one these for True Ending.
I know you said at the end that you felt it was fairly balanced, but it always seems a bit unsatisfying when you have every hunter fully stacked on you and that's how it ends. I know that's part of the tension and high odds, but its definitely unfortunate when it plays out that way. I wonder...i have no idea what the code looks like on the back end, but if the mod can check which players are on a given screen is there a way to scale damage taken or given based on number of hunters in one place? Like hunters lose one nail upgrade only in the event that all four are in one area or a couple adjacent screens. But like you said maybe that would be an unneeded tweak since you felt it was fairly balanced even with a 4v1 + watchers.