Direct Injection carbon cleaning on my Audi B8 S4/S5 V8
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
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Jeff, you said “this should just come off” or something like that. BIG mistake. That angers the assembly gods, and things immediately become 47 times harder. Scientific fact 😁
Haha, very true.
You're a brave man Jeff for getting that deep in a modern VAG car. Respect to you.
Who doesn’t like being deep in a vag...hehe
Hi Jeff
Next time you are doing the same job ;) you should pull out the air circulation flaps. (The thin piece of metel in the middel of the intake) it will make the job a lot easier!
Love your vids.
I was just coming to comment the same. Can't believe he didn't remove them!
You can do that job with a tool that is for the BMW thp engines.. basically you blast the conducts with walnut. Check that procidure, maybe it will help you!
Cheers from Argentina jeff!
this is how my local audi dealership performs this procedure. i considered getting a media blaster and walnut shell media, but from what i saw online, is a very, very messy job. the dealership quoted $1400 USD for the work by the way.
@@dufftime if you check some Audi forums , there is someone that makes a plastic "tool" that covers the port perfectly. It has a hole to plug in a vacuum and a hole to put the tip of the media blaster.
@@dufftime the tool is $30.
@@ratman19731 thanks ratman
@@dufftime here's a link to the tool
www.ebay.com/itm/RKX-Carbon-Cleaning-Walnut-Blaster-adapter-FOR-VW-Audi-TFSI-Engines-Intake-Valve-/333238666990
Direct injection was implemented to increase economy, emissions, and performance. The fuel is injected at over 1000PSI as opposed to 50-60 PSI giving better atomization and distribution in the cylinder. This allows for a more thorough and consistent burn. That allows leaner running during cruising operation (economy and emissions) and the atomization paired with a richer burn under high throttle and high load conditions gives better performance. Sadly it wasnt just a scheme to sell more induction cleaning services.
Another advantage with DI is combustion timing. Injecting the fuel directly into the cylinder allows you to delay the combustion timing so that you achieve peak combustion pressures when the crank has travelled further around for better mechanical advantage - this works particularly well in a turbo application IIRC (but I could be wrong there). It is very much how diesels make so much torque also. If you try to delay the combustion like this with normal port injection you would get massive detonation. Which is another advantage - you don't need as high of an octane. My car does not require premium (here in the U.S) . . . and is loooong overdue this service!
Nice work Jeff. Try a Walnut blasting kit next time. That is what I use and the intakes get perfectly shiney clean.
To clean it frequently, you need to add a second set of fuel injectors on the intake!
More power! Less fuel efficiency too. But with a Haltech ecu, I'm sure you can make a fuel map using both fuel rails alternatively, like in the 2.7 in the 986 boxster.
Direct for start and power, indirect for stable speed.
The S4 B8.5 does have Manifold Port Injection and from some photos I've seen of the valves from a high mileage one it certainly works as you say! I'm sure I read that the MPI is the main injectors whilst cruising etc and the Direct Injectors come into play when stomping on the loud pedal.
Alas, North America didn't get this version of the B8.5 (CREC engine) and I'm not sure what other countries didn't get it but I know the UK did because I've got one. Unfortunately, one down side is that most of the DIY videos on TH-cam are from North America and sometimes things don't quite work out, such as removing the MAP sensors - I've got fuel rails in the way.
i performed this job on my wife's 2010 a4, and was a PITA, and i have days more room and half the valves to clean! i tried a few expensive "specialized carbon cleanup" cleaners, but i found that off-the-shelf standard carb cleaner worked the best. i also found a good pick set and wire brushes worked the best.
just like you, i had problems accessing the crank bolt so just pulled the fuel pump relay and bumped the starter until the open valve closed.
oil catch cans are supposed solve this issue, but at $400 i think i'd rather just do this as a maintenance job every 60k miles for the cost of 3-4 cans of carb cleaner.
I just replaced the intake manifold and decarbonized the valves on mt Son's Audi A3 and I can attest that it is a Biatch but 100% recommend. Liked, subbed, and commented.
Great work Jeff, I'm all for the DIY approach. I've works on number of Audi's over the years, only service mode is pulling bumper off and loosening of the front end (leaving hanging or on long bolt's sliding forward), old vans have a 5 min mode. I'd done it your way or dropped the gearbox mounts to tilt engine up if needed, the daily has had enough attention!
I’m not familiar with your S5, but I have turned over other engines by placing a large screwdriver through an available inspection port in the bell-housing and then leveraging it against the flywheel teeth. It’s tedious, but gets the job done and gives you infinite control over the position of your engine internals. You’re also the kind of guy who’s brave enough to make his own port and new cover when there isn’t one available. 😜
It’s a 10-20 minute job to slide the front end forwards on most Audi’s. They’re usually designed to come forwards as a unit with everything still attached, and everything that does need unplugging or disconnecting is usually on a quick release of some sort.
The first step in the manual for most engine work on them is ‘assume service position’
It didn't tel me that in the manual, but that would have helped.
My dad has a 2014 A6 with the 3 liter V6 and super charger. I’m sure he’ll need this work done soon. And it will be even more fun because we’ll have to deal with removing the super charger.
It’s kind of crazy to me that cars this new, require this level of work.
Hi Jeff, love your videos, what I normaly do, is a italian tune up, fill fuel tank up, tip in a bottle of injector cleaner, and go for a 250km run at 100km or above, car runs great after that, and it is fun.
worthless if you know how a DI engine work, there is no more air fuel mix on the inlet side of the head, everything you put on the gas goes straight to the combustion chamber.
That will not do a thing to help this as it gets injected after the valves ;)
It will clean the combustion chambers
Dear jeff, net time if you work on that car, you can put the nose with complete nose in service mode. Then it tips a few degrees off, the coolerpack is away from the front of the engine mate.
I'd also suggest you change the oil filter housing o-rings while you have access to the valley pan. Def the most common oil leak these things have.
I was thinking the same thing and he should have removed the air flap’s.
And he disconnected the battery instead of disconnecting the engine power terminals
Nice work you are fearless when it come to DYI repairs! I thought taking the intake off a V6 Camry to repack rear coil packs was fun you take things to a whole new level LOL.
Time to add a catch can to keep the oil vapours out of your intake Jeff.
worthless
I was thinking of adding one to my 2017 Astra but found that GM actually built one in to the manifold so the latest cars don't need one....
@Farina Marcini Turbo diesel doesn't have the same problem and type of gunk like petrol DI engines.
Most Euro petrol engines already have what is essentially a catch-can. The PCCV valve works as a oil separator. I know my BMW from the year 2000 does and it drains back to the sump.
And so does my diesel BMW but in a different configuration. Catch-cans on modern engines are a total scam.
Ah, the achilles heel of petrol DI's. The PCV systems filters just don't do enough and so an upgrade for these engines, including DI diesels, is a decent oil catch can/vapor seperator. Although if you want the can to drain it means having to find a way to plumb it into the sump.
Definitely time to add a good quality catch can
in the garage where i work we always use Innotek FS cleaner... best product for carbon build up
If you are not sure about getting any residual gunk out, after the cleaning process, a thing to do is to remove the spark plugs and crank the motor over to eject any thing left in the combustion chamber.
But, knowing Audi, getting the spark plugs out is probably an all day job !
Hey Jeff much respect , love what you do , as you do as much as you can yourself . Great videos great projects .
"Daddy, what is walnut shell blasting? Do you have a shop vacuum?" V8 DI engines with out PI are a maintenance nightmare.
This is the best looking A5/S5 imo. I just bought the same model :)
Thanks, i have a 2010, and i was waiting for someone to make a video to guide me to doing it myself. I rebuilt my audi from an accident. Never worked on the engine though.
I recommend getting the manual. It will save a lot of headaches.
About 100 years ago the owner of a vehicle would routinely de-carbon the heads and valves, now due to the modern bureaucratic process, WE STILL NEED TO! Isn't progress wonderful 😖 Now get an oil catch can and really solve the problem.
No you don't, on petrol DI engines doesn't work due INTERNAL, blow by recirculation.
Hi Sebastian, Are you referencing the PVC system?
@@SouthernEngineering No, I am referring to internal gas recirculation due valve timing overlap.
I see. Understand I am not an auto mechanic, also I'm not familiar with the Audi engine. I did a little research on some of the most popular auto blogs and it seems you are correct and so am I, the DI system prevent the cleaning action of the fuel (this I knew), and while a catch-can will help, it will not stop the problem. So I must revert back to my original premise " the modern bureaucratic process" is the progenitor for bad engineering choices with the resultant need for this type of service, it is a ridiculous state of affairs.
On a separate note, this winter I will be building, sanitizing, and cleansing a V10 of all the non-essential items for my wife's MGTD project, if it's not needed to make fuel go BOOM, it won't be on the engine.
I noticed you're familiar with Megasquirt ECU, how do you like it?
@@SouthernEngineering The problem is that the industry is running behind the norms, which are new every 4 years
A friend of mine purchased a Peugeot Rcz for his wife after 2 years the car like yours started to play up, he found that the engine is made by BMW it is one that is in the Mini he went to Peugeot they said it was muck on the back of the valves like yours and it needed to be blasted with walnut shell. Peugeot do not have the machine, so BMW they do not work on any Peugeot, even though they sell the engines to Peugeot, so he asked if my engine is toast would you sell me the correct engine direct or via a Peugeot dealer they said yes any way you want we can supply, but you won't service it "NO". he had to get rid of the car.
Oh one thing that music you are using between talking is NASTY. Great job though i am impressed.
THP engines (Turbo High Pressure) are PSA/BMW (Peugeot/Citroën - BMW) and are the WORST engines of the last decade, FULL of problems, timing chain stretch, high pressure fuel pump fail, carbon build up, water pumps, etc etc.. And Peugeot Citroën stiil use them on a lots of cars, stay away from them. Google "THP Engine Problems" and you'll see.
Those metal plates in the middle of the value ports come out mate👍
Jeff, most Euro cars have battery jumper terminals in the engine bay. The A5 has the positive under a flap in the centre between the scuttle and the windscreen.
Under the wiper motor cover.
Was planning to do this on my S5, great video
The screw management tip was very helpful
Automatic's you'd turn it over by putting the key in the ignition and try and start it to turn the engine over...obviously you'll have to pull the fuel pump fuse, number 3, disconnect the hpfp, ignition coils and you'd be good. Just have to remember to have a good battery on hand or a battery charger as that's the way i managed to do it
From now on you should use a can of SA459 with your service (Subaru upper engine cleaner)
Subaru's suffer from carbon build up quite badly due to the flat engine design. The spray dissolves the carbon and is then burnt by the engine.
All you do is open up a vacuum line and spray it in, crank the car over a few times (it won't start right away) and let it sit for 15 mins. Then start it up (will crank for maybe 15 seconds then start really rough and blow heaps of smoke.
Rev it up and then take it for a good hard drive.
You can buy it from your local Subaru dealer or on eBay
I can't tell if it's a troll but this sounds really horrible for the engine
@@seannomoney20 huh no it's not, it dissolves all the carbon and oil build up.
It's recommended by Subaru for all their engines and people use it on all different engines
@@andrewlangford88 oh okay sounds good then.
according to my knowledge direct injection is used simply because its better more power less fuel more reliable than carb its just not cheaper at least today, today injectors can make more of a fog of fuel rather then spray
I have my first diesel ever too now. 2.0 TDCi. 2012 F.O.R.D.
what about upper cylinder cleaner?
The easiest way ive found to spin the engine over on 6mt cars is to use a flathead screwdriver on the flywheel gear
Direct injection is mostly for fuel efficiently. It allows the injection to happen at during the compression strike while the engine is under light load.
have you thought about using a small laser to remove the intake build up on the back of the valves.. would make it a lot quicker to do.. and all the build up on the valves and the intake tract would just vapourize away?
there is no battery jump post under the audi's bonnet? id have popped the jumper box on like i do with the BMW's
Yep under a flap in the area of the wipers.
Awesome video i hope i never have to do that lol i use Seafoam and they have an intake cleaner spray that you spray thru the air intake while the car is running and may be worth giving a shot so you can hopefully not have to go that far again in the near future
I tried that stuff. It still looked like that...
Oh good to know i was about to do it on mine in hopes it doesnt build up
A whiteboard? What is this, engineering explained? :D
Excellent video! I also love the background music......
Is it possible that carbon buildup could also trigger a PO171 lean code on bank 1? I assume this could only be the case if the buildup was so bad that even on maximum richness compensation by the computer, it still wasn’t getting enough air… unlikely but possible?
my 11 a8l has WAAAY more space up front and behind the intake, i feel bad for you guys man what a nightmare
That's so cool! Just one question couldn't you put the car on four stands and turn the tires in order to turn it over? Just wondering if that would work and cut the time in making a special tool.
You can get to the crank from underneath the car ? Didn’t you have a crank adapter that fits on your rachit to crank the engine round ?
Awesome video. I have a V8 S5 that has done 70k km. Do you think it needs a carbon clean?
There is a better way, walnut blaster attached to a vacuum cleaner, that's the way BMW oficial service do.
Sebastián Demaría th-cam.com/video/ffAQU2tckVs/w-d-xo.html
Isn't it annoying how manifolds from manufacturers are coated in the metal equivalent to white silk? They leave aluminium exposed that just stains under anything black getting on it. You try something like petrol to clean it off, and that doesn't shift it. And then you realise you're going to bake in the stain getting it all warm. It's like, what are you supposed to do? Sand blast it clean every time?
Jeff, I enjoyed your video, but cringed a bit with you having to work with so little space in the front. Audi has built a service position into the front bumper. It takes 10 minutes or less and the entire front, radiator included, moves ahead about 15 inches. Audi was brilliant enough to make allowances in cables and rad hoses to allow for this. Therefore no rad draining and burping required afterword. It makes things like serpentine belt and supercharger belt changes a breeze. Thanks for the video.
Hi Jeff, can you provide a link to the manual please
So this is the only way to carbon clean it right? I can use some type of liquid to add with my gasoline?
Cheaper than get the walnut blast ... a good job
Someone posted a video of doing this on his s4 . He bought a media blaster for $60 at harbor freight and a 25lb box of walnut shell mix. His ports and valves were sparkling clean.
So what Manufacturers need to do is fit a 9th injector in your case, into the throttle body to come into play at high rpm's this would clean the inlet tracks and backs of the valves. Simples 👍
That is exactly what they have done to correct this
Fantastic effort
Do you actually need a carbon clean? What if you don't ever do it? I have s5 v8 interested to know. I have heard guys say they noticed zero difference? Of course there will definitely be carbon build up but in reality how much will it effect car performance?
Hey where did you bypass the high pressure line too ? From the coolant reservoir?
How did you tell if the valve was completely closed when they were dirty ? Before starting to soak them with cleaning spray
That must be why some manufacturers keep port injectors in tandem with their direct injection systems.
That is the fix they came up with.
This is why manufacturers are now adding an extra injector before the valves to help wash off this crud. EGR waste is terrible for your engine.
Hi you should use a polymer bead blaster down the valve throats thus cleans them perfectly then you use a spray additive to dissolve the polymer beads job done
That is fine if you have all that to hand. I did it with what most home mechanics would have at home.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff you can get the polymer beads on line and you can convert a old shot blast head and use a old hover quite simple to put together and works well
B8 S4 is a supercharged V6 and not the V8
Great job - I wouldn’t have done it any other way
Watch out for Jeff, Jason from Engineering Explained!
Direction injection - more efficiency, possibly more power. Emissions regulations drive this. Later direct injection cars don't seem to have this issue. Seems to be a software calibration thing (maybe to do with timing of the injection.) I'm about to fit a catch-can to my well-maintained LS1 powered SS (daily driver) as the intakes can get gunked up a bit too - but not so much the back of the valves. Did you consider fitting one for this car? Would seem a good option after all the work you put in...
The modern cars fix this issue by adding another injector before the valves... like they used to have it.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff You're right... I notice VAG has this system on newer cars along with Toyota. Porsche engines seem to suffer less from this problem for some reason, despite being DI only for 10+ years. I wonder why some are affected more than others?
Well it does sound awesome.
You know you can put it on 5th gear and turn the wheel ??
How much would a shop charge for this? And would this cause problems starting the car when it has been running. For better explanation, most of the times I start the car (say in the morning) it starts fine, but after I get to where I’m going, and turn the engine off for maybe 10-20-30 minutes, then when I come to start it again, it shudders a bit and start, or sometimes won’t start on the first crank, but starts on the second one.
Hello l used sefoam in my audi s4 2005 from the intake manifold the full body now have the missfire. I change the spark plugs but no work any recommendations thanks
Thanks for sharing!!!
Hi , could you give us some more information , pictures , or anything how , and were did you put this * ( home made spaner ) to turn the engine ? thank you.
So here is my question buddy. You have done a carbon injection clean but still your had that much gunk inside o_O?
Being a manual, could you not get the drive wheels off of the floor and turn the engine with them while in gear? Good video by the way.
Yes I possibly could if I could push it while it is in gear. Not sure if I would be able to by myself, but good option.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff I was thinking lift the drive wheels and spin a wheel to use the gearing as leverage. Pushing wouldn't be as accurate.
4WD system might just mean another wheel spins. Plus, even it top gear you're at a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio. And the ratio isn't in your favour.
People on the forums have reported that this does work. Supposedly just lifting one wheel off the ground and spinning it by hand while in 4th gear. Check out the forums for more details.
Alan Brown Not sure why you'd suggest 4th gear but yes people are saying possible in top gear only with spark plugs removed. So possible on this Audi .. but not diesels.
Hey Jeff. Can you give an update on how is the s5 behaving after the carbon clean?
It is running soooo much smoother than it was. Massive improvement.
With what product did you clean the apparent cylinders that you had soiled? 😉
another top vid mate :)
keep them coming
Thanks
Hello Jeff!! Do you do this job for other S5 owners? Would be happy to pay. Cheers mate
Nope ;)
Jeff quick question, I’m half way getting the manifold off, broken the same coolant pipe you did, so thanks for the mod advice. However did you take the manifold off with the pcv? I can’t see a way not too, but your video looked like it went back on separately? Also any issues with re using the manifold gaskets? Wasn’t planing on doing this but my pcv valve is leaking oil everywhere.
Sorry mate that was a few years ago.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff no worries, figured it was a long shot.
Should of left the ports to soak for 24hrs and you will actually see bare metal 👍
This video totally scared me away from buying a used Audi!
Sad reality is that all cars except electrics will require this work with varying levels of work required. I have an S5, and it spooks me also. And I’m an total vehicle restoration capable kind of guy. Get used to the new ways of doing things I guess!
good god, that was a bear of a project. how long did it take you total?
From memory around 2 whole days
@@HomeBuiltByJeff Yikes! Think I'd rather just take it to a shop and have it done for like $600 while I'm at work. But I applaud you for the dedication! That's some serious man hours!
Should have replaced the PCV valve and the thermostat while you had the intake off. Common points of failure and you did 95% of the work already to replace them.
Is it possible to run water injection and a catch can to totally eliminate this issue?
No idea. Someone needs to test it over 100,000 kms t really see.
Ok, now I'm confused. In America, firefighters make an average of $48,000 a year (about $15 an hour) This, keep in mind, is for the paid staff. A *VAST* majority of firefighters are volunteer and do not get paid at all. How on earth can you afford all this stuff?
Joshua Walker 54000 subscribers plus others that watch his videos. That’s a fair amount of income per month. He does a good job so good for him.
@@racekar80 The video view count is definitely not that high. Jeff had these cars when his subscribers were under 1000.
I wish 50k subs meant a decent income. Still only about $1k AUD from YT a month. Not much at all for all the work it takes. In Aus the FF income is better than the US and we have 2 incomes, no kids and we are frugal. Remember the S5 is an 11year old car, and I have never bought a new car in my life ;)
Also I would note that this last month is the first month in 3.5 years of YT we have made over $1k AUD in the month from Adsense. It has normally been much less.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff Ahh the elusive "DINK" Lifestyle (Dual Income No Kids) - that exaplans a lot! It was just you had all these exotic cars. (I get they were kind of junk first) Next thing there is an Audi out of nowhere! Now I can't wait to see you roll out your Bugatti Veyron. :)
S4 B8 = 3.0 tfsi supercharged !
So it’s “carb cleaner”? Not Carbon?
I just used carb cleaner.
Its very hard to do it himself
Take it to the track drive it hard. Fixed!
Nope ;), probably just make it worse
@@HomeBuiltByJeff nah. You have to get the carbon to high temps and it will break down and cook off. I fix many cars with coking problems this way. Take the. Out to the orchard roads hold a gear and hold high rpms then back down and repeat.
@@benjamindavidson632 BS, driving it hard will not fix intake tract gunk. Coking in the cylinder is a totally different kettle o fish.
Jeff, laik 100%👍
Just disconnect power to the fuel pump and bump the starter.
Can't bump the starter in these cars. It cranks until it starts.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff Have you tried it? My Mustang has a push button start. I've unplugged the fuel pump. It turns over a couple times and then stops. The car is not going to keep trying to start indefinitely. I'm pretty sure a Lexus will do the same.
what the hell do you do to have so many mad toys? i know you said your a fire fighter but mmmm that cant afford you this stuff ;)
Al The Jeffs are dinkys- double income no kids. Jeff was an accomplished airbrush artist I think I’d guess doing custom cars. If you go back to his very early vids you can see the Porsche Cayman he had before his Audi. Remember he’s done almost all the work on his cars himself which would save a fortune.
And Jeff drive's just like one expects a fireman to drive. Early on seen with hose out and hosing down the flames.😉🙂👍👍
That's a compliment Jeff😉👍👍
Having investment props and generational wealth helps too haha!
No kids, double income, spends the time he has off as a firefighter working on his own stuff (house, cars..). That'll leave you some money to play :)
You are all wrong. Mrs. Jeff is a C-Level Executive, multi-billionaire, who keeps Jeff as her boy toy and indulges him with his hobbies. Duh!
Hello did u have any issues with timing chain on the 4.2?
None in my 4 years.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff is ur s5 high mileage? Or how klicks on it?
Necesito ayuda con mi s5, motor de admision .. posición Real de donde debe quedar, quien me ayuda??
Supacheap brass fitting $10......Audi OEM plastic part $450....hehe...If the boot is locked there maybe a 12v post in the engine bay to hook up your jumpstarter..If the Audi engine still plays up you can always wack a Ferrari engine in there....should be an easy conversion compared to the Alferrari.....
I would pick the Alfa Ferrari conversion over a new Audi Ferrari conversion every time! ;)
What mileage has the car done
140,000kms
You looks like muscular Doug demure .
Change the oil at least after this monstrocity...