Lyrical community dismisses trap music as "Mumble Crap" Trap community dismisses lyrical community as "Corny" Rap is turning into the equivalent of modern politics.
Yes but there are levels of lyrical rap. For example Joyner raps w fast and intricate flows over trappy beats and that leaves him to be considered corny bc ppl like Logic do the same thing and the black audience tends to hate it most of the time and it appeals more to a white audience. Then there are the true innovators such as Westside Gunn and JPEGMafia and Roc Marciano who rap over instrumentals entirely of their own styles using less fast paced and typically more smoothe flows, focusing more on the lyricality of their bars than people like Logic. Joyner is equally as talented as the aforementioned underground rappers but his middle class of rap is typically described as corny by default simply because he is too intense for some listeners, just like the underground rappers are but they nevee get to see the light of day bc they have loyal fanbases of their own and they thrive in their own bubbles without trying to clout chase or succumb to the masses style. I just wish Joyner would collaborate w those underground legends, it would do him some good and loosen him up. Since those artists go completely unnoticed, as only true rap fans know about that kinda shit, they don't get called corny or anything because they don't get noticed whatsoever bc they don't clout chase and "keep it real". Ik people would be quick to dismiss their style as "too weird" or garbage simply because they aren't as well known as someone such as Travis scott. Honestly pretty sad what hip hop has come to
It comes down to psychology. Most people aren't self aware and self critical. They gravitate to arrogantly confident artists, if feels good. They don't relate to artists who think they are the shit, but also think they're a piece of shit at the same time. That's my take on why a lot of artists are labeled as corny. Most people bury those self-doubt emotions so anything adressing that topic does just sound corny to them.
It’s funny because all the people who I hear say “corny” listens to people like Blue face, Migos, and lil baby and then say that they’re the best rappers 🤣
BattleRatsRapBattles yea I guess. I just hate when these kids at my school say some stupid shit like “lil baby is the best rapper” or “blueface is the best rapper” or someone like that.
Joyner tries to send a message but fails due to it being shallow and lacking the depth that someone like Kendrick, Cole, Badass, or even Denzel would have, while people like Blue face, Migos, and Lil Baby want to make enjoyable music and succeed to the masses. Blue face is whack, but people like Migos and Lil Baby are hella dope. And even Lil Baby makes better relatable music than Joyner in my opinion, his sound blends in with the emotion and puts some nice lyrical for a trap song. Joyner needs to improve when it comes to real life and relatable type songs but when he wants to make lyrical bangers where he just goes hard with his bars he does a fantastic job.
The thing that a lot of people tend to miss when it comes to respect is, *not receiving respect from people you weren't wanting it from doesn't matter.* Joyner has the respect of legendary emcees and is recognized in hip hop so he has accomplished what he set out do. Same with Em and Logic, the people who think they're corny didn't contribute to their success so they're not important.
The people who think these poets are corny aren’t educated in the hip hop culture AT ALL! And they be the same people riding hip hop trends and hip hop waves.. it’s a shame, I’m 22 and can see right through this BS. Wish I had grown up in the old school/golden era where they treated the culture with respect and not creating a mockery out of a beautiful culture, with downright disrespectful anything goes disses, dj scratching, where the real ones were getting the recognition and spotlight;where as today we get watered down disses from drake and Tory lanez, non authentic artists who don’t care about the game enough to actually put effort in creating unique creative art but instead taking the easy way out and copying everything, TH-cam channels like these creating false narratives about old school rappers, modern day lyricists like Joyner, hopsin, logic, daylyt, etc. and just making a complete mockery of the roots and origins of hip hop. They taking everything for granite.
People criticize lyricists, so that their own rap taste doesn't get questioned for its credibility. Most of what is called hiphop today IS NOT hiphop, just mumbling melodic chanting. Hence, true rappers with witty lines and bars come through, these 'hiphop fans' suffer an existential crisis: admit the credibility of such rap and risk allowing further criticism of the hiphop strain they love, when comparisons are drawn OR, as they usually do, preempt such a discussion by preemptively attacking raw rap, protecting their ability to claim to be rap fans, no matter their tastes. They know, objectively, attacking such rap purist styles is literally impossible, so they use a tag that is impossible to define and, hence, question: corny.
@@manniking233 great comment. To me personally, it's usually just people being negative for attention. It's their way of calling rappers trash with minimal backlash. There was a time when someone didn't like a artist, they just didn't listen to them and go on with their lives. But since we're in this social media era, people feel the need to constantly tell the world they don't like something or someone. And what makes it worse is that most of the time they don't have a logical or justifiable reason as to why they think that way. I *love* talking about hip hop, so when I see the corny or trash comment I simply ask that person to elaborate. And their response is usually an extremely aggressive insult. I just tell them that they want attention and the only reason they're insulting is because they want to be right but have nothing intelligent and of value to say.
It's so depressing how when someone raps about true issues in society people say it's corny but when rapper sing about money and disrespecting women we suddenly call it "lit"🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ Guess the truth is a painful pill to swallow after all.
Well fortunately Joyner doesn’t care that much about establishing a “popular” fan base like Cardi B , Migos, Tekashi69 , and so on and so forth . He establishes a fan base to whoever is willing to hear him and accept what he has to say and doesn’t care . Simple
@@Waluigi-vr4qz exactly ! He doesnt have to sell out but for his type of message and truth he puts in the air he is actually a gifted and talented rapper and he should be respected
@@bluesmoke8 he is the best the around ! He doesnt have to be a rockstar . Just because he doesnt appeal to the younger generation such as doing drugs , flashing money , and talk about strippers doesnt mean hes a cornball ... It just means he is not generic 😂😂😂
Ramiro Cardenas being respected by big names doesn’t translate to being accepted by the audience. If you asked 100 hip-hop fans what they thought of Joyner 90% would say he’s generic and Just relying on the age-old stereotype of “guy who thinks he’s the savior of rap”
Harvivek Dhindsa you do realize that just because a rapper thinks Joyner is good that doesn’t mean the fans of that rapper does? People don’t blindly support their favourite artist to the point where they agree with their opinions on everything
@@oisoisoisois6735 yeah I agree but trust me 80 percent of the rappers have fan bases that will blindly agree. Only the 20 percent who have a much more informed audience will think for themselves
The fact that Joyner is not "respected" by hiphop is a very misleading topic. He's respected by guys like Eminem, Nas, Scarface, Black Thought, Masta Ace, Ghostface Killah etc, guys who helped build the art form. If they're not Hiphop then who is? If you talk about Hiphop community, are you talking about the guys who use the number of viewers and sales as a benchmark or people who actually have knowledge of the culture and the craft? Furthermore, you claim that Eminem's latest work is irrelevant and that it did nothing for hiphop at all. You should probably think again. Do you have any idea of where the roots of hiphop came from? Or are you just interested in talking album sales? Because that's the only thing you build your arguments on. Since when did record sales become a crucial factor in artistic quality? Do your homework and come back bro.
Lee Lee naw he’s not all that he’s very unoriginal and lacks concept and creativity and dumb downs his topics with simple lyrics that make it hard to listen to you
Nutty Playz why are you making it like it’s either rap about money and bitches or rap like Joyner, imo he’s corny cause he disses people who rap about shallow stuff when he’s not that interesting either, there’s guys like Kendrick who offer legitimately interesting social commentary, or guys like Tyler who rap about really creative subjects like bikes and boredom, Joyner has pretty generic subject matter so even if he’s obviously a very talented rapper i don’t really give a shit about what he’s saying cause it’s boring and generic, just like the rappers he talks down on
@@janmrt9274 yes he did he said he was never respected.Fresh prince got respect maybe not like the more dark rappers like rakim ,kool moe d,rdmc,but they new fresh got busy on the mic.
SPECTRUM DAVE So basically, will smith wouldn’t be respected if he wasn’t internationally famous? If that’s the logic here than what are you to this world ? Bc I never heard of you
Frank Dickerstein DX has several writers. He’s just a narrator. Meaning one writer could have said Jaden Smith isn’t corny and another could have said this. Click the little arrow at the top to see credits and check the writers from both episodes. Might be the same but either way not really his fault he’s just the voice.
@@hentaiprotagonist729 This shit is so ironic bro. They talking about Jaden corny but this was taught and raised by a hip hop legend. Ironic that people can't ever really say something bad about Jaden's actual ability, so they resort to saying he's corny. They can't deny his talent without sounding stupid so they just say "he's corny" because they can say that without having to actually explain it because they can't explain it. Jaden puts out better shit than a lot of these idiots' favorite rappers. I can't name a single Dababy song that even stand next to a song like "Fallen". Even Jaden's shit that's just dance type stuff is better than anything I've heard from Dababy but people put that simple ass shit at the top.
@@Jussstusssreid I'm not really a big fan either. For instance, I though Tory Lanez bodied him in their "beef". But, I agreed with the guys original point. Alot of people just want dope beats/production rather than great lyricism.
Joyner has always just done his own thing.. whether it be about social issues, race, haters,just for fun or just straight fire lyrics... Ems already solidified his legendary status and Joyner is a legend in the making...
@@cam105 he even said in the video that no one can question EMs place in the rape game, so he's just saying when you get Eminems attention plus a feature theres no doubt about it that Joyner is respected in the game. Love him or hate him he's gonna be a legend in the game with time.
Danny Sirota I think people aren’t resorting him because of “I love” and “10 Bands” which I thought were good songs but weren’t his best. But there are soo many other good songs his did weather it’s storytelling, what’s going on, just for fun or even just a regular fire song
Danny Sirota yeah not really lol. Eminem has featured and co-signed a few rappers that aren’t anywhere near legends in this game. His stamp of approval is pretty weak.
Assuming what other people do doesn’t help your argument. I find most (keyword, MOST) of Joyner’s music to be corny and I’m a huge fan of rappers like Kendrick, OutKast, MF DOOM, Aesop Rock, Kanye, J Cole and Black Thought
@@oisoisoisois6735 assuming opinions have any real weight doesnt help your argument either. Not sure why you and this video are comparing him to kendrick or cole other than the handful of PC songs he has put out.. while joyner is extremely lyrical he will never have the depth of kendrick.. I don't even think em hits that level of real human depth.. joyner fits better with the likes of big sean in my opinion. Not every rapper needs to be a movement man.. a lot of Joyner best songs to me are songs I bump while driving around and shit.. it's not brainless half spoken garbage, his lyrics are clever and intelligent enough and his flow is great.. shits not gonna end racism, cure diseases or bring about world peace but it's not the same old gang banging drug slanging shit either or some higher than thou poetry slam.. all which have their place in rap.
Justin Murphy yeah but the reason why people dislike Joyner is because he acts like he’s the savior of rap and any time he tries to do a conscious song it falls flat. And he has tried to make a conscious song way too many times. He just needs to stay in his lane rather than trying to act like he’s some lyrical messiah
Joyner is raw af. The guy shreds, he’s original, and he can switch styles at the drop of a hat. Some people are going to hate no matter how good you are. It’d be dope if other real artists wanna checkout “Tainted Souls” on my channel & lemme know what ya think. Thanks peeps. P.S. I’m a nerd & proud of it so if ya call me corny as if I wasn’t aware you’re wasting time.
Shawn Anderson thanks bro these days people are always labeled a hater if they don’t agree and it’s like No I acknowledge his talent but where’s his creativity or original expression the best rappers or artist in general to me always either challenged the statue quo or changed it all together.
So basically: Conscious rapper = "he's corny" Technical rapper = "he's shallow" I'm starting to think a rapper who isn't 'mainstream rap' is just gonna get dunked on no matter what they do. Imo anything other than mainstream nightclub rap should be respected simply for not chasing the easiest bucks.
Nah that’s completely untrue. He’s technically skilled but he does absolutely nothing interesting with it. He’s conscious but being conscious doesn’t mean that his music is amazing just because it has a meaning. His beats are boring, his flow is uninteresting and his “I think I’m the savior of hip-hop” attitude is unbearable
Oisín Brew-Dinan “does absolutely nothing with it”??? Songs like “I’m not racist” or “I’m sorry” (hell, that whole project) had a massive impact in the culture and society. Just because you and other guys didn’t feel it, it don’t mean you now have the power to label it “corny”. People like you are just annoying. Just entitled af! You need to understand that just bc an artist doesn’t please you it doesn’t cancel the fact that millions of other people (including legends) find him amazing! His music is “not interesting” for you, not the community! His beats “are boring” for you, not the community. His attitude is “unbearable” for you, not the community. You’re literally NO ONE to talk for the community! Focus on your craft instead of trying to invalidate someone else’s just because you don’t fk with it
If you genuinely believe anything that's not mainstream is getting dunked on, you need to vastly expand your playlist because this is simply not true at all. Just because people find guys like Hopsin, NF, or Joyner corny doesn't mean it's because they're "conscious" Black Thought, Royce Da 5'9, Kxng Crook, MF Doom, are a few of many rappers who are the furthest from mainstream yet receive nigh unanimous respect and praise from the entriery of the hip hop community. If anything, the inverse is more the truth. Anything thats mainstream gets dunked on because it's mainstream and you literally prove this in your comment by saying anything thats not mainstream automatically warrants respect.
Thibaut Kentgens because they aren’t trying to be the greatest of all time, you’ll never see Migos claiming they’re one of the greats, they know they’re not and just make catchy music. Joyner thinks because he can rap fast that he is a legend but he isn’t, his music lacks substance and again he is corny
Kostas Gotsis lol that fucking cornball of a video? Yeah because racism is just so easily simplified like that right? No it isn’t, Joyner tried to deliver a bigger message and failed. Even 21 Savage a so called “mumble rapper” was able to deliver an entire album that was more lyrical than anything Joyner has ever put out. Joyner is hot garbage, he isn’t better than most rappers because he thinks he is hot shit but in reality he is garbage.
Tason Womo #9/82 #OlReliable #Clutch #GOATs I don’t think you’ve ever heard a Joyner Lucas song if u think 21 savage is better than him Course u can have ur opinion but I disagree
i guess the song has a good message it's just the way he addresses the names there with a familiarity that he doesn't actually have as in using those names that people love just so they like him too
Nathan Gold God forbid a rapper puts effort into his art or else its seen as “trying too hard” & “corny.” You’d rather listen to lyrics that were created in 10 minutes right?
Woah dude that is so corny 😂 No i am just kidding this video was fucking retarded. But people are even more retarded and thinks that word "corny" is legit.... Like how the fuck can you say this guy is shallow and corny. Listen to Older songs or new revenge, its very good and i am not even dick riding i am not even sub to him on his channel but i can see talent if i hear it.
"Ain't no love for the other side" is Tupac... I didn't listen to ONE song of this Joyner dude and I perceive him as corny. Maybe the name "Joyner Lucas" (uglyass name) or the looks... Lightskin Tattoos chain basically a cliche of these days rappers... I don't know... Seems corny to me, nothing original
I hate when people say that, not like joyner doesnt have songs about abortion, suicide and racial issues among many other things for example "i'm sorry" a song made by joyner where it starts out speaking in the eyes of someone who is struggling saying things about how he tried then the second verse is in the eyes of someone who lost someone due to suicide
criticism's important for a community, if there is no criticism the medium stagnates. Sometimes rappers need to get killed by the public to recognize their faults and evolve and if we go by this, it kinda goes both ways because most joyner fans despise the existence of most new, popular rappers. It would be cool if people focused on learning the appeals of music they don't like but that's just kind of a pipe-dream
@@moegreene7940 Young white kids grow up wanting to be hard, but most of them grow out of it bout time they reach college. The problem with us blacks is that to us its not just a teenage phase, we actually think its a lifestyle and wind up living like that late into their 20's even some into their 30's like a big ass goofball. One thing white kids got into is the drug rap culture, via the lil Peeps and lil Xans of the world. Some Blacks got into it, especially with the lean, but not as heavy as them..
Honestly I disagree with what you say and think the message of the video doesn't make sense. You criticize Joyner for hollow messages, but then his songs with a message are "corny" (a word you really overused btw). Overall this talk about "messages" is pretty dumb. Nearly all of the "rappers" today talk about drugs and money with a few exceptions and they do not have ANY technical or lyrical skill to offer. Then why is it suddenly bad when Joyner shows his skills on songs like the Gucci Gang Remix, even though it has no strong message (btw. I have a similar view on Kamikaze)? You also completely ignored his amazing storytelling in e.g. Ross Cappacioni. Another thing that bothers me is what you even mean by "respected". Do you really think the overall succes makes a rapper great and respected? You are clearly mistaken. Rapping great on a technical and lyrical level makes is more important then to appeal to the mainstream.
Uhh just in case you didn’t know he’s not giving his opinion on Joyner at all. He’s just using information of other opinions to make a TH-cam video explaining it.
Lyrical rap in general is corny by this logic. The mainstream listeners listen to all that mumble rap trash, and honestly I think Kendrick hasn't been labeled corny because everyone loved the hook in "Humble". Honestly at this point you're doing things right if your music isn't getting out on the radio because I these guy's case it means that their message is too deep for the general public. They'd rather jam out to popping pills and gun violence
@@elijahwetting2685 have u listened to under pressure album by logic If not just give these songs a try "soul food" and "under pressure (song)" The whole album is dope "Nikki" is great too give them a try
@@kunalpathak7849 the album is good but wtf are you talking about nikki is the worst song on the album. Who tf writes a song about being addicted to cigs? 🤡🤣
this is how to look at lyrical rappers - denzel and jid are loved because they are real and they don't preach. they talk aboit issues in a personal way and you can relate to them. joyner and logic oreach at you and want you to change
Y’all are under my comment? Why? Because you were interested in the video that involved who ? Joyner Lucas. Get off my shit if you don’t support the man. Don’t watch him if you don’t support him
Because "hip hop" = the system. "the system" is against positive messages and positive role models for the youth. The system is against the people but we the people support joyner 100%.
Very true, I agree. Just further proves the point that people are sheeple. Yeah, corporate heavily pushes overall negativity, but last time I checked no one was pointing a gun to our heads saying “you must listen to X or Y.” Corporate is only as powerful as we let them be.
So when you say the rap community do you really mean to say you? Because if so, sorry to break this to you but this being my introduction to your channel it's incredibly corny how you keep generalizing things like: "We all think Logic is corny." Once again, who are we? Who are you even quoting? Amateur journalism is corny.
I think Rappers are SCARED of him. Just remember when people use to say "Kendrick is Overrated" and "J Cole is Boring" and now it's "Joyner is Corny" Joyner is that guy people look for any reason to hate him. Don't understand how people will call him corny but love Odd Future & these New School Trap Rappers. It's stupid as fuck.
Johnny Taylor being lyrical doesn’t mean that you can completely disregard other elements of your music. Joyner’s flow is boring at times, some of his music is just Fake Deep, and he acts like he’s a savior of hip-hop
Jay well they aren’t really comparable since 6ix9ine’s popularity has more to do with his online persona and his trolling than his music. If Joyner was doing the shit 6ix9ine was doing he’d likely be in a similar position
@BxxDxx Hoodoo yup with 3 grammies, 9 bet awards. 1 mtv vma, 1 screen guild, and 1 cmt music award, and 26 other nominations. Not everyone likes mumble rap, and fake gangster and drug rap sorry lol
I think his respected as a Emcee. Joyner doesn’t have a consistent discography at this point. He’s mostly known for his viral music videos and freestyles. The quote from The Ringer is accurate about Logic recent content.
the problem with joyner is tory lanez proved that even though he is talented, he isnt special which made him corny at an observational value sometimes he feels like a fast rapper saying a lot of nothing (i.e zeze and offended, he fell short)
nobody is totally perfect he has a downside just like any artist nobody is "universally" loved where i live people find j cole corny and kendrick too what you are saying is basically pointless the man is talented and making a living off what he loves good for him foh
"I'm sorry" will forever be one of my fav rap songs. The message of that song is simply amazing. Even better than Logic's attempt imo. It just hits deeper. It feels more true / realistic. Also, his remix of Bank account it definitely my fav remix !
He's respected by artists that actually stood the test of time with their lyricism, delivery, and overall skill. This generation doesn't care about that as much sadly.
Imagine thinking joyner is corny have u listened to more then 2 of his song? Everything said about every artist mentioned in this video isnt backed up by actual facts.
Joyner is my boy bro I love his music dude reppin all of us with ADHD and he hops in and token we’re the first rappers I ever got to see perform live all at the same show that energy was off the fucking chain
Hip hop does not hate on Joyner. Hip hop respects him. Hip hop artists respect him. The 14-15 year old kids who control the streams lean twords lean rap lol. And anything that isn't drugs and cars and hoes isn't hard enough and is "corny" hip hop is about being raw and being yourself. Joyner and logic hit hip hop where it matters. They are real.
clickbait mullings bro, your like 13, you have no idea what the actual hip hop community is, he’s just another “rapper” in the little kid rap community tho, I’ll give you that.
I think another thing holding him back is that Joyner has a bit of a dated flow; mainstream rap has either gotten weird, more off kitler flows and bars, or just trap heavy and slow. Joyner would have fit perfectly in the early 2010s. I'm a fan of his as he's really talented and has interesting takes on situations but his whole style isn't particularly fresh or new. I think he came up a few years too late
lol you two are morons. Joyner is landing features with major producers like timbaland and artists like Eminem and you think he’s being “held back”? The guy skyrocketed to success in just one year. If that’s held back I’d like to see him not held back. Wtf are you talking about?
When Eminem first came out people hated on him too, calling him ‘corny’ too, now look at him arguably the greatest rapper of all time. Apparently you are labeled as ‘corny’ for having a creative mind and producing lyrics that do not include how much money, hoes, and cars you get 🤷🏽♂️ it’s quite sad honestly that there’s somebody as great as Joyner Lucas that doesn’t get the credit he deserves because he is a lot better than 95% rappers right now (to me he’s at the top) and his bars literally go right over some of the audience’s head. I want someone to give me example of his ‘corniness’ 🙄
I mean he explained it in this video well. A lot of his lyrics come off as tactless and not impactful at all. When you try to preach you are holier than thou for shit like drug abuse, it falls of deaf ears for a lot of listeners. Its like singing country and trying to shit on agriculture or conservatism, a lot of the people it will reach will not give a shit.
Even if Joyner doesn’t get acknowledged for being one of the best, I will still acknowledge that he is. Idc about what certain critics say. I don’t believe any of his music is corny. People are sleeping on this man and won’t give him the credit he deserves. I hope something like this doesn’t discourage him bc seeing a great rapper like this put to shame is fucked. One day this man will also be known as a legend.
Facts even great rappers and legends like busta rhymes, eminem, hopsin and royce praised him. Joyner is my top 5 as well. He has everything to surpass every great rapper.
this video is problematic... HHM doesn’t represent my hip hop views and I didn’t really think they explained just what they meant of why hip hop doesn’t respect Joyner. The man may not be at the top, but has got enough credit on his name that the work speaks for itself. All y’all did was compare the man to Logic, WHY... and talk about his music as if every song is suppose to hit... c’mon y’all owe the man better, given what’s he’s contributed so far...
Yep. Just because someone doesn't like a certain lyrical rapper that all of a sudden makes them a mumble rap fan. That is just like saying I am a Nazi or a white supremacist because I hate a jew or black man that I have a personal grudge with. I don't have a problem with the race it is just individual reasons with them.
@@kingwizop7813 I'm not saying you have to like them I'm just saying you shouldn't say that people that dislike a lyrical rapper are all of a sudden fans of the other genre but have a point about both sides being different.
To be honest , I respect his pen game. But he's lacking something. substance That song I'm not racist seemed like something to grab the attention of masses, but overall he is just scratching the surface of the matter of racism. Bar for bar to be honest you got dozens better than him. Sound speaking, his beats don't catch that much attention. Bar for bar , pusha t, Vince staples, Cole, earl sweatshirt, joey badass, meechy darko, Freddie gibbs, Kendrick are miles ahead of Joyner. In the end he sounds corny but he isn't. He just needs a different approach. And doing the same lane and attaching to logic I don't think it was a good idea. But, again, tremendous potential. But maybe if he gets more raw substance like staples for example he could boom. My opinion. Plus his style looks like he is still in 2000's lol.
Imagine a rapper and some one telling you , you put to much emphasis on technical ability in a freestyle that is supposed to flex your technical ability that’s what you supposed to do
M Mukul Hossain Joyner barely raps fast, that’s part of what he got popular for but if you listen to his discography he doesn’t rap fast that often, he has proven that he can but most of the time he isn’t trying to rap fast
I think its because he didn't come up standing next to a big star unlike the newer skool of Rappers. Drake had Wayne, Meek had Ross. Joyner came up on his own. This means it will take him longer to gain credibility and to be viewed in that light.
@@cyber-bully5063 I'm talking about being signed. Chris Brown and the Eminem was paid for by the label. I'm talking an artist who is great never put Joyner on. We knew about him on his own merit. Where as a J.Cole was brought to us by Jay-Z
Honestly no one can compare to Joyner even Busta admitted he hasn't heard music like Joyners in over 20 years Joyner connects his words on a different level when he raps you can hear consistency in his bars you can feel the intensity of his emotions he doesn't rap songs he tells stories
"I'll go down as the underdog that never lost hope"- Joyner
dude i loved that lyric from lucky you
meowpurpur preach
When I die I'm goin' out as the underdog who never lost hope
FAX
Why is that bar so perfect for this
Other rappers dont like Joyner because of "lack of substance"? Really? Yeah cause rapping about money are so deep and original.
Joyner did rap about money. Except he did it in a deep, logical way. 👀 #keepit100
yeah I swear I was looking for a legit reason why Joyner isn't getting the attention he deserves and this video is all bullshit
Kevin Y Martinez im glad this comment exist
They obviously never heard Ross Capicchioni
FR BRO, oml fr fr 🙏🙏
Lyrical community dismisses trap music as "Mumble Crap"
Trap community dismisses lyrical community as "Corny"
Rap is turning into the equivalent of modern politics.
Yeah the middleground of people that can differentiate both and enjoy them for what they are is getting smaller.
Yes but there are levels of lyrical rap. For example Joyner raps w fast and intricate flows over trappy beats and that leaves him to be considered corny bc ppl like Logic do the same thing and the black audience tends to hate it most of the time and it appeals more to a white audience. Then there are the true innovators such as Westside Gunn and JPEGMafia and Roc Marciano who rap over instrumentals entirely of their own styles using less fast paced and typically more smoothe flows, focusing more on the lyricality of their bars than people like Logic. Joyner is equally as talented as the aforementioned underground rappers but his middle class of rap is typically described as corny by default simply because he is too intense for some listeners, just like the underground rappers are but they nevee get to see the light of day bc they have loyal fanbases of their own and they thrive in their own bubbles without trying to clout chase or succumb to the masses style. I just wish Joyner would collaborate w those underground legends, it would do him some good and loosen him up. Since those artists go completely unnoticed, as only true rap fans know about that kinda shit, they don't get called corny or anything because they don't get noticed whatsoever bc they don't clout chase and "keep it real". Ik people would be quick to dismiss their style as "too weird" or garbage simply because they aren't as well known as someone such as Travis scott. Honestly pretty sad what hip hop has come to
I would say more people who like trap would prefer lyrical shit to mumble rap as well
You said it man
Agree
I swear dudes slap “corny” on anybody they don’t have a legitimate criticism for
FACTS!!!
Jaketheripper honestly
It comes down to psychology. Most people aren't self aware and self critical. They gravitate to arrogantly confident artists, if feels good. They don't relate to artists who think they are the shit, but also think they're a piece of shit at the same time.
That's my take on why a lot of artists are labeled as corny. Most people bury those self-doubt emotions so anything adressing that topic does just sound corny to them.
Dead ass bruh.
Boy you said so much, with so few words!
If joyner came out in the 90s or early 2000s he would be a legend right now.
ry vibes facts
He did rap since age of 12, I believe. So it's around 18 years ago.
He did rap since age of 12, I believe. So it's around 18 years ago.
Maverick no
scorpionmain 2 7 5 6 Yes stupid.
LETS NOT FORGET, YALLS NIGGAS WAS TRYNA HATE ON KENDRICK WHEN HE MADE "I"
Not me
Not this way easily my favorite Kendrick song
Faithful to kdot since 2014 buddeh
tbh w u my favourite kendrick's song is i
Myles Em TV who is y’all niggas? Lmao
It’s funny because all the people who I hear say “corny” listens to people like Blue face, Migos, and lil baby and then say that they’re the best rappers 🤣
Right
MackTheFifth lil baby is actually good. The others tho, not so much. lil baby actually spits if you listen to him
BattleRatsRapBattles yea I guess. I just hate when these kids at my school say some stupid shit like “lil baby is the best rapper” or “blueface is the best rapper” or someone like that.
I'm not liking your comment. Not only because I disagree but because it is at 69 and I wan't to keep it there.
Joyner tries to send a message but fails due to it being shallow and lacking the depth that someone like Kendrick, Cole, Badass, or even Denzel would have, while people like Blue face, Migos, and Lil Baby want to make enjoyable music and succeed to the masses. Blue face is whack, but people like Migos and Lil Baby are hella dope. And even Lil Baby makes better relatable music than Joyner in my opinion, his sound blends in with the emotion and puts some nice lyrical for a trap song. Joyner needs to improve when it comes to real life and relatable type songs but when he wants to make lyrical bangers where he just goes hard with his bars he does a fantastic job.
Y’all better put some respect on his name after he just dropped Revenge
Frrr bruuu
for real tho
revenge is so fire
You're my boi ✌️
and that buildup at beginning was 🔥🔥 my head was moving without beat drop
That song is better than the most top selling artist rn whole career
"If you ain't Joyner If you ain't Kendrick or Cole or Sean then you're a goner"- Eminem... Let's leave it there
Thought I'd edit it up...
What about Logic?
@@stealthninja1140 I don't know... This is an Eminem quote bro... I like logic though
@@El_Peterson Oh, it's just that Eminem collabed with much more people like Royce Da 5'9, Logic and more. He only collabs with the best.
@@stealthninja1140 yes he does... But I'm sure Joyner, Kendrick and Cole were fitting in well with his rhyme scheme
@@El_Peterson Okay, thanks bro.
The only thing corny here, is using the word "corny" twice a minute 😂
You said it twice😶
In under 15 second lmao
I know I couldn't believe this idiot would be calling Eminem corny
I was just about to say something similar the people who call everything corny are comfortable with garbage
Joyner got compared to Nas by Busta Rhymes.
I'll just leave it to that.
🏅
Lime has aside from like 2 maybe 3 albums has been trash
Lol
only the one track. parallels to i give you power.
True, how can u hear Ross capichionni and call him corny
My comment didn't age well
Same.
Man it's so cool to see another Freddy
@@godmodevegeta1216 thanks man 👍
@Assa • grow up kid
"Eminem told me to get on my knees for him
And thats all I need"
😂😂 you fucking stans kill me
The thing that a lot of people tend to miss when it comes to respect is, *not receiving respect from people you weren't wanting it from doesn't matter.*
Joyner has the respect of legendary emcees and is recognized in hip hop so he has accomplished what he set out do. Same with Em and Logic, the people who think they're corny didn't contribute to their success so they're not important.
The people who think these poets are corny aren’t educated in the hip hop culture AT ALL! And they be the same people riding hip hop trends and hip hop waves.. it’s a shame, I’m 22 and can see right through this BS. Wish I had grown up in the old school/golden era where they treated the culture with respect and not creating a mockery out of a beautiful culture, with downright disrespectful anything goes disses, dj scratching, where the real ones were getting the recognition and spotlight;where as today we get watered down disses from drake and Tory lanez, non authentic artists who don’t care about the game enough to actually put effort in creating unique creative art but instead taking the easy way out and copying everything, TH-cam channels like these creating false narratives about old school rappers, modern day lyricists like Joyner, hopsin, logic, daylyt, etc. and just making a complete mockery of the roots and origins of hip hop. They taking everything for granite.
fluid creativity on God n dem showty
People criticize lyricists, so that their own rap taste doesn't get questioned for its credibility. Most of what is called hiphop today IS NOT hiphop, just mumbling melodic chanting. Hence, true rappers with witty lines and bars come through, these 'hiphop fans' suffer an existential crisis: admit the credibility of such rap and risk allowing further criticism of the hiphop strain they love, when comparisons are drawn OR, as they usually do, preempt such a discussion by preemptively attacking raw rap, protecting their ability to claim to be rap fans, no matter their tastes. They know, objectively, attacking such rap purist styles is literally impossible, so they use a tag that is impossible to define and, hence, question: corny.
@@manniking233 great comment. To me personally, it's usually just people being negative for attention. It's their way of calling rappers trash with minimal backlash.
There was a time when someone didn't like a artist, they just didn't listen to them and go on with their lives. But since we're in this social media era, people feel the need to constantly tell the world they don't like something or someone. And what makes it worse is that most of the time they don't have a logical or justifiable reason as to why they think that way.
I *love* talking about hip hop, so when I see the corny or trash comment I simply ask that person to elaborate. And their response is usually an extremely aggressive insult. I just tell them that they want attention and the only reason they're insulting is because they want to be right but have nothing intelligent and of value to say.
Fat W
It's so depressing how when someone raps about true issues in society people say it's corny but when rapper sing about money and disrespecting women we suddenly call it "lit"🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Guess the truth is a painful pill to swallow after all.
Comment deserves more likes.
Thank you for the love guys😊😊 y'alls are real G's
@@37310kaleb Probably won't pin this comment because they think its corny to speak facts 🙄
So fucking true.
Yuuup
Well fortunately Joyner doesn’t care that much about establishing a “popular” fan base like Cardi B , Migos, Tekashi69 , and so on and so forth . He establishes a fan base to whoever is willing to hear him and accept what he has to say and doesn’t care . Simple
Quadri Salahuddin just like a lot of other rappers. His not special for not Selling out.
IM DAT FAN CAUSE HES THE BEST
@@Waluigi-vr4qz exactly ! He doesnt have to sell out but for his type of message and truth he puts in the air he is actually a gifted and talented rapper and he should be respected
@@bluesmoke8 he is the best the around ! He doesnt have to be a rockstar . Just because he doesnt appeal to the younger generation such as doing drugs , flashing money , and talk about strippers doesnt mean hes a cornball ... It just means he is not generic 😂😂😂
Quadri Salahuddin what the fuck are you on about 🤦🏽♂️
Joyner lucas is respected by the GOATS of hiphop, therefore HipHop RESPECTS joyner. Case closed
Ramiro Cardenas being respected by big names doesn’t translate to being accepted by the audience. If you asked 100 hip-hop fans what they thought of Joyner 90% would say he’s generic and Just relying on the age-old stereotype of “guy who thinks he’s the savior of rap”
@@oisoisoisois6735 not really
Mf facts.
Harvivek Dhindsa you do realize that just because a rapper thinks Joyner is good that doesn’t mean the fans of that rapper does? People don’t blindly support their favourite artist to the point where they agree with their opinions on everything
@@oisoisoisois6735 yeah I agree but trust me 80 percent of the rappers have fan bases that will blindly agree. Only the 20 percent who have a much more informed audience will think for themselves
“Hip hop doesn’t respect Joyner” - Joyner sells out a stadium with Snoop Dogg 🤷🏼♂️
D Lynch I'm sure a mega star like Snoop had nothing to do with it 🤷♂️
It's snoop dog bruh. Nobody went for Joyner he just filler
xjus- snoop wasnt supose to be there man... he jut showed up
@@Jussstusssreid Bruh lmao look at his songs and what's hit billboard again Look at his monthly listeners I'm sure joyner had something to do with it
@@JitSlayer doesn't mean his music is that great.... Joyner locus is super repetitive and talks about the same stuff.
Every time I hear the word corny I stop taking the video seriously
Preach, bruh...
@@saxyrep1 he is corny tho
@@MORNINGSTAR190 no he isn't
@@jam3s731 not corny jus he predictable and generic with his verses
@@MORNINGSTAR190 how the fuck is he predictible or generic in his verses give me 1 good example
The fact that Joyner is not "respected" by hiphop is a very misleading topic. He's respected by guys like Eminem, Nas, Scarface, Black Thought, Masta Ace, Ghostface Killah etc, guys who helped build the art form. If they're not Hiphop then who is? If you talk about Hiphop community, are you talking about the guys who use the number of viewers and sales as a benchmark or people who actually have knowledge of the culture and the craft?
Furthermore, you claim that Eminem's latest work is irrelevant and that it did nothing for hiphop at all. You should probably think again. Do you have any idea of where the roots of hiphop came from? Or are you just interested in talking album sales? Because that's the only thing you build your arguments on. Since when did record sales become a crucial factor in artistic quality?
Do your homework and come back bro.
enzaim Thank you💯All these hating clown ass niggas are annoying
St8 up
enzaim straight facts
Exactly
You said something about Eminem's *LATEST* work, but then mentioned the roots of Hip-Hop. Okay.
When Emcees that are at Legendary status cosign you, all other opinions become invalid
Mailbox underrated comment honestly
That's not true at all. Most of these dudes want to be respected by more than 10 guys in a culture of millions.
Joyner Lucas doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's very talented.
Lee Lee naw he’s not all that he’s very unoriginal and lacks concept and creativity and dumb downs his topics with simple lyrics that make it hard to listen to you
@@yeeyeebubba1885 Joyner is your favourite rappers rapper
Yeah
Yeeyee Bubba yeah but talking about doing drugs and fucking bitches makes sense, when you can’t even get any?
Nutty Playz why are you making it like it’s either rap about money and bitches or rap like Joyner, imo he’s corny cause he disses people who rap about shallow stuff when he’s not that interesting either, there’s guys like Kendrick who offer legitimately interesting social commentary, or guys like Tyler who rap about really creative subjects like bikes and boredom, Joyner has pretty generic subject matter so even if he’s obviously a very talented rapper i don’t really give a shit about what he’s saying cause it’s boring and generic, just like the rappers he talks down on
I would say Joyner's ft with Chris Brown is his other huge feature.
YES! AND I LOVE THAT SONG
Indeed
Mystikal
Yeah I think you’re right
@@shellyshenanigans joint album going to be 🔥
“The Hip-Hop Community” doesn’t respect Joyner Lucas? If you don’t respect Joyner Lucas you are not part of Hip-Hop.
Worded perfectly
Okay lol
K
For real nobodies perfect what’s wrong with being corny if the best rappers in the game are the same thing I don’t get it
GamingFwkz Fwkz so people cant have opinions or que?
He got Will Smith to remix his song... that’s gotta get him some respect
Straight fax 🚫🧢
@SPECTRUM DAVE what...man you crazy fresh Prince was dope as hell
@@dominiquebatty0990 he didn't say that fresh prince isn't dope
@@janmrt9274 yes he did he said he was never respected.Fresh prince got respect maybe not like the more dark rappers like rakim ,kool moe d,rdmc,but they new fresh got busy on the mic.
SPECTRUM DAVE
So basically, will smith wouldn’t be respected if he wasn’t internationally famous? If that’s the logic here than what are you to this world ? Bc I never heard of you
“Unlike Eminem, Logic is in his prime”. I see clownery here
Like hes not even close to his prime, hes on his fall off, hes prime is way back in 2012, on mixtape days.
AraVamp you mean 2002?
RedBeryl 81 he’s talking about logic
Yeah neither of them are in their prime anymore
Thank you!
All this coming from someone that said Jaden Smith isn't corny.
Frank Dickerstein DX has several writers. He’s just a narrator. Meaning one writer could have said Jaden Smith isn’t corny and another could have said this. Click the little arrow at the top to see credits and check the writers from both episodes. Might be the same but either way not really his fault he’s just the voice.
now that kid is suspect!!!! talk about him.
Foreal ?😂
Yeah but Jaden fire tho even Joyner fire
@@hentaiprotagonist729 This shit is so ironic bro. They talking about Jaden corny but this was taught and raised by a hip hop legend. Ironic that people can't ever really say something bad about Jaden's actual ability, so they resort to saying he's corny. They can't deny his talent without sounding stupid so they just say "he's corny" because they can say that without having to actually explain it because they can't explain it. Jaden puts out better shit than a lot of these idiots' favorite rappers. I can't name a single Dababy song that even stand next to a song like "Fallen". Even Jaden's shit that's just dance type stuff is better than anything I've heard from Dababy but people put that simple ass shit at the top.
He's a lyricist rapper in a time when mumble rapping is the norm. People don't like people who are different.
Exactly
Yet his music is not that great 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
@@Jussstusssreid I'm not really a big fan either. For instance, I though Tory Lanez bodied him in their "beef". But, I agreed with the guys original point. Alot of people just want dope beats/production rather than great lyricism.
@Sammy Dee LE WRONG GENERATION
@@Jussstusssreid u sleeping
Anyone here after “Will”
Yo what are the chances I see you here
"you feeling like me?"
Hiphop fans do respect joyner... wtf you on?
THANK U
Some hip hop fans
We don't
Larry Cooper Kharbangar well then you don’t know hip hop 😂
@@CarlosSchultzMusic I do and you don't
Joyner has always just done his own thing.. whether it be about social issues, race, haters,just for fun or just straight fire lyrics... Ems already solidified his legendary status and Joyner is a legend in the making...
Kate J why the fuck are niggas still bringing up Eminem ?!?! We talking bout joyner, hop off his meat damn
RIGHT, fuck an opinion, once eminem cosigns u, WHO THE FUCK ARE CRITIQUES
@@cam105 he even said in the video that no one can question EMs place in the rape game, so he's just saying when you get Eminems attention plus a feature theres no doubt about it that Joyner is respected in the game. Love him or hate him he's gonna be a legend in the game with time.
Danny Sirota I think people aren’t resorting him because of “I love” and “10 Bands” which I thought were good songs but weren’t his best. But there are soo many other good songs his did weather it’s storytelling, what’s going on, just for fun or even just a regular fire song
Danny Sirota yeah not really lol. Eminem has featured and co-signed a few rappers that aren’t anywhere near legends in this game. His stamp of approval is pretty weak.
They say their lyrics are "corny"
But they listen to a guy say "yeah" and "Gucci Gang" a million times
Assuming what other people do doesn’t help your argument. I find most (keyword, MOST) of Joyner’s music to be corny and I’m a huge fan of rappers like Kendrick, OutKast, MF DOOM, Aesop Rock, Kanye, J Cole and Black Thought
@@oisoisoisois6735 assuming opinions have any real weight doesnt help your argument either. Not sure why you and this video are comparing him to kendrick or cole other than the handful of PC songs he has put out.. while joyner is extremely lyrical he will never have the depth of kendrick.. I don't even think em hits that level of real human depth.. joyner fits better with the likes of big sean in my opinion. Not every rapper needs to be a movement man.. a lot of Joyner best songs to me are songs I bump while driving around and shit.. it's not brainless half spoken garbage, his lyrics are clever and intelligent enough and his flow is great.. shits not gonna end racism, cure diseases or bring about world peace but it's not the same old gang banging drug slanging shit either or some higher than thou poetry slam.. all which have their place in rap.
Justin Murphy yeah but the reason why people dislike Joyner is because he acts like he’s the savior of rap and any time he tries to do a conscious song it falls flat. And he has tried to make a conscious song way too many times. He just needs to stay in his lane rather than trying to act like he’s some lyrical messiah
@Anthony Salerno true
@@oisoisoisois6735 Who's Aesop Rock?
Hip Hop don't respect Joyner because they are TERRIFIED OF HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED!!!!!!!!
ANTHONY R.C. YES bro say it louder ✊🏽
@Victor P. He just dropped revenge, you should listen. It will clear everything
He’s just not cool. Girls don’t want to fuck him and black dudes don’t wanna be him
@Steve Thomas. Did this guy just say joyners 'not cool'😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.
@@stevethomas4867 he litteraly already has a son
Joyner is raw af. The guy shreds, he’s original, and he can switch styles at the drop of a hat. Some people are going to hate no matter how good you are. It’d be dope if other real artists wanna checkout “Tainted Souls” on my channel & lemme know what ya think. Thanks peeps. P.S. I’m a nerd & proud of it so if ya call me corny as if I wasn’t aware you’re wasting time.
I think it's the 10 Bandz shit that people hate. Back words and ultrasound were dope af.
You should of because they made a comparison with Cheetos so you dodged a bullet
@@aliblessed1293 I like Joyner but I gotta say this is a cool comment...u might have a point for real...
Shawn Anderson thanks bro these days people are always labeled a hater if they don’t agree and it’s like No I acknowledge his talent but where’s his creativity or original expression the best rappers or artist in general to me always either challenged the statue quo or changed it all together.
I like joyner but his music has been so filler recently
So basically:
Conscious rapper = "he's corny"
Technical rapper = "he's shallow"
I'm starting to think a rapper who isn't 'mainstream rap' is just gonna get dunked on no matter what they do. Imo anything other than mainstream nightclub rap should be respected simply for not chasing the easiest bucks.
Deadass facts!!
Ikr
Nah that’s completely untrue. He’s technically skilled but he does absolutely nothing interesting with it. He’s conscious but being conscious doesn’t mean that his music is amazing just because it has a meaning. His beats are boring, his flow is uninteresting and his “I think I’m the savior of hip-hop” attitude is unbearable
Oisín Brew-Dinan “does absolutely nothing with it”??? Songs like “I’m not racist” or “I’m sorry” (hell, that whole project) had a massive impact in the culture and society. Just because you and other guys didn’t feel it, it don’t mean you now have the power to label it “corny”. People like you are just annoying. Just entitled af! You need to understand that just bc an artist doesn’t please you it doesn’t cancel the fact that millions of other people (including legends) find him amazing! His music is “not interesting” for you, not the community! His beats “are boring” for you, not the community. His attitude is “unbearable” for you, not the community. You’re literally NO ONE to talk for the community! Focus on your craft instead of trying to invalidate someone else’s just because you don’t fk with it
If you genuinely believe anything that's not mainstream is getting dunked on, you need to vastly expand your playlist because this is simply not true at all. Just because people find guys like Hopsin, NF, or Joyner corny doesn't mean it's because they're "conscious"
Black Thought, Royce Da 5'9, Kxng Crook, MF Doom, are a few of many rappers who are the furthest from mainstream yet receive nigh unanimous respect and praise from the entriery of the hip hop community.
If anything, the inverse is more the truth. Anything thats mainstream gets dunked on because it's mainstream and you literally prove this in your comment by saying anything thats not mainstream automatically warrants respect.
Can someone define "corny" for me 🙄🙄😒😒😒
We know what you're trying to say but it's not coming of as something we'd like to hear, it's just not popping or gripping either.
It’s something people don’t take serious and frame it as a joke
@@bulelanitshuma7665 Ohhhhhhh.... Mmmhhh
@@Alex-zg9ww 😂 😂 😂 😂 got it. Sounds familiar
Eminem
Why is lil pump in a thumbnail that says “Respected by Hip Hop” 😂😂😂😂
i dont get the "corny" and "hallow lyrics" if thats true then why are mumble rapper so popular, they rap literly about nophing
Thibaut Kentgens because they aren’t trying to be the greatest of all time, you’ll never see Migos claiming they’re one of the greats, they know they’re not and just make catchy music. Joyner thinks because he can rap fast that he is a legend but he isn’t, his music lacks substance and again he is corny
@@MrKobeMonster I could easily consider Joyner being a 10X better rapper than any Mumble rapper, just by listening to "I'm not racist"
Kostas Gotsis lol that fucking cornball of a video? Yeah because racism is just so easily simplified like that right? No it isn’t, Joyner tried to deliver a bigger message and failed. Even 21 Savage a so called “mumble rapper” was able to deliver an entire album that was more lyrical than anything Joyner has ever put out. Joyner is hot garbage, he isn’t better than most rappers because he thinks he is hot shit but in reality he is garbage.
Tason Womo #9/82 #OlReliable #Clutch #GOATs I don’t think you’ve ever heard a Joyner Lucas song if u think 21 savage is better than him
Course u can have ur opinion but I disagree
Tason Womo #9/82 #OlReliable #Clutch #GOATs "cornball" holy shit this guy thinks 21 savage is better than Joyner 😂😂 Fucking clown damn.🎡
Joyner Lucas speaks the truth in his music and Devil's Work is 1 of them
i guess the song has a good message it's just the way he addresses the names there with a familiarity that he doesn't actually have as in using those names that people love just so they like him too
I think Devil's Work is the worst song I've heard from him
TCT i always thought when rapper gets called corny it meant he was trash
Ernest Afoakwah it’s his best song
In a corny way tho just listen to hospin tbh
Y'all over use the word "corny". He's just not like the other ignorant ratchets (they have their place but you can like both)
Real talk fam
@Nathan Gold meek is corny as shit my dude. Sorry to be the one to break it to you
Nathan Gold God forbid a rapper puts effort into his art or else its seen as “trying too hard” & “corny.” You’d rather listen to lyrics that were created in 10 minutes right?
Marlene Motionless Kendrick isn’t corny Earl sweatshirt isn’t corny Joey badass isn’t corny and they all put effort into every project.
Marlene Motionless there are people who can make godly verses and 10 minutes, but I get what you’re trying to say.
“Ain’t no love for the other side or anyone who ever want smoke.”-Joyner Lucas
“When I die I’m going out as the underdog that never lost hope”-Joyner Lucas
"You in the wrong cab down the wrong path nigga wrong way, wrong road"
Snakes in the grass,tryna slyther fast,I just bought a motherf×cking lawn mower
Woah dude that is so corny 😂 No i am just kidding this video was fucking retarded. But people are even more retarded and thinks that word "corny" is legit.... Like how the fuck can you say this guy is shallow and corny. Listen to Older songs or new revenge, its very good and i am not even dick riding i am not even sub to him on his channel but i can see talent if i hear it.
"Ain't no love for the other side" is Tupac... I didn't listen to ONE song of this Joyner dude and I perceive him as corny.
Maybe the name "Joyner Lucas" (uglyass name) or the looks... Lightskin Tattoos chain basically a cliche of these days rappers... I don't know... Seems corny to me, nothing original
“Yeah mumble rap isn’t deep but it sounds cool”
Whatta bout Joyner Lucas?
“Nah he’s not deep”
He's not a mumble rapper
I hate when people say that, not like joyner doesnt have songs about abortion, suicide and racial issues among many other things for example "i'm sorry" a song made by joyner where it starts out speaking in the eyes of someone who is struggling saying things about how he tried then the second verse is in the eyes of someone who lost someone due to suicide
😄 😂
That shit don't sound cool it sounds like they retarded
@@PharaohTheBlerd then go listen to lil pump or trippie redd
Why can't we just enjoy music, why is everyone a critic?
Cornelius Blake-Star fax somebody always has something to say
Thank you
criticism's important for a community, if there is no criticism the medium stagnates. Sometimes rappers need to get killed by the public to recognize their faults and evolve
and if we go by this, it kinda goes both ways because most joyner fans despise the existence of most new, popular rappers. It would be cool if people focused on learning the appeals of music they don't like but that's just kind of a pipe-dream
@@dangodjango bro shut up did you really just criticize a comment criticising criticism?
@@raees13677 Now you've criticized my comment criticizing a comment on criticism so you're just as bad as me, join the club
I'm not listening to a man who says logics in his prime
He was being sarcastic
@@velishqiptar233 u sure about that
@@unknownperson-vw7zx yes
Man, actually both already made a song together, it's solved
So you just gonna skip over that whole album he did with Chris Brown
Whose one of the best musicians in the world but it's not fully out yet I think only like 3 r out
Ikr, he puts Chris on the thumbnail but skips him, and their collabortaions are fire
Corny; a cryptic way of saying someone is not hood enough. A term mostly used by haters.
Basically
I see more and more fake ass suburban kids use it because they “think they hood”
@@moegreene7940 Young white kids grow up wanting to be hard, but most of them grow out of it bout time they reach college. The problem with us blacks is that to us its not just a teenage phase, we actually think its a lifestyle and wind up living like that late into their 20's even some into their 30's like a big ass goofball.
One thing white kids got into is the drug rap culture, via the lil Peeps and lil Xans of the world. Some Blacks got into it, especially with the lean, but not as heavy as them..
mrxexes Facts. J. Cole touched on this too
Thank you 👏👏👏👏
Honestly I disagree with what you say and think the message of the video doesn't make sense. You criticize Joyner for hollow messages, but then his songs with a message are "corny" (a word you really overused btw). Overall this talk about "messages" is pretty dumb. Nearly all of the "rappers" today talk about drugs and money with a few exceptions and they do not have ANY technical or lyrical skill to offer. Then why is it suddenly bad when Joyner shows his skills on songs like the Gucci Gang Remix, even though it has no strong message (btw. I have a similar view on Kamikaze)?
You also completely ignored his amazing storytelling in e.g. Ross Cappacioni.
Another thing that bothers me is what you even mean by "respected". Do you really think the overall succes makes a rapper great and respected? You are clearly mistaken. Rapping great on a technical and lyrical level makes is more important then to appeal to the mainstream.
I agree commentator guys a dick head Joyner is sick as fuck and 110% can rap!
Uhh just in case you didn’t know he’s not giving his opinion on Joyner at all. He’s just using information of other opinions to make a TH-cam video explaining it.
Lyrical rap in general is corny by this logic. The mainstream listeners listen to all that mumble rap trash, and honestly I think Kendrick hasn't been labeled corny because everyone loved the hook in "Humble". Honestly at this point you're doing things right if your music isn't getting out on the radio because I these guy's case it means that their message is too deep for the general public. They'd rather jam out to popping pills and gun violence
@@grandmaster4521 look up researcher bias. I respect his work but I think he is looking at it in a very specific point.
This is stupid! Joyner Lucas is 🔥🔥🔥. Logic is 🔥🔥🔥. Eminem is a 🐐.
I don't think logic is good or that em is the goat but ok
Elijah Wetting opinions. I said Eminem is A Goat Not “the” Goat but again opinions.
@@joshuahoffman2195 fair enough
@@elijahwetting2685 have u listened to under pressure album by logic
If not just give these songs a try "soul food" and "under pressure (song)"
The whole album is dope "Nikki" is great too give them a try
@@kunalpathak7849 the album is good but wtf are you talking about nikki is the worst song on the album. Who tf writes a song about being addicted to cigs? 🤡🤣
“Logic is in his prime” BRUH NOOOOOOO HE AINT
What you talking about my nigga he is my g
Yes he is
Hes retired
this is how to look at lyrical rappers - denzel and jid are loved because they are real and they don't preach. they talk aboit issues in a personal way and you can relate to them. joyner and logic oreach at you and want you to change
that's the take!
I'm assuming, the more preachy the more corny
Myles Em TV it really depends how the rapper comes off in their style and delivery.
Explain how devils work wants you to change.
Give me an example...how did joyner want someone to change?
Joyner’s music isn’t for the simple minded. Literally all his song tell a VIVID story.
Alright buddy calm down
Its for Eminem fans
MF DOOM is complex. This is just some words put together by a guy who thinks he’s good.
Lmaoooo no it’s just boring
Y’all are under my comment? Why? Because you were interested in the video that involved who ? Joyner Lucas. Get off my shit if you don’t support the man. Don’t watch him if you don’t support him
Because "hip hop" = the system. "the system" is against positive messages and positive role models for the youth. The system is against the people but we the people support joyner 100%.
💯💯💯
Very true, I agree. Just further proves the point that people are sheeple. Yeah, corporate heavily pushes overall negativity, but last time I checked no one was pointing a gun to our heads saying “you must listen to X or Y.”
Corporate is only as powerful as we let them be.
So when you say the rap community do you really mean to say you? Because if so, sorry to break this to you but this being my introduction to your channel it's incredibly corny how you keep generalizing things like: "We all think Logic is corny." Once again, who are we? Who are you even quoting? Amateur journalism is corny.
Amatuer journalism is the best way to describe this channel 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm 47 so one thing I truly enjoy is lucus. I can understand everything he says and can feel where he is coming from. Tru MC
Same here 4real!!
I think Rappers are SCARED of him. Just remember when people use to say "Kendrick is Overrated" and "J Cole is Boring" and now it's "Joyner is Corny"
Joyner is that guy people look for any reason to hate him. Don't understand how people will call him corny but love Odd Future & these New School Trap Rappers. It's stupid as fuck.
diesel101raw even when odd future first came to the scene they said the same thing and they called Tyler too much and over the top 🙄
Yaa aight
I don't see nuthin' corny bout a lyrical rapper. Anyone that does don't know hip hop!
Johnny Taylor being lyrical doesn’t mean that you can completely disregard other elements of your music. Joyner’s flow is boring at times, some of his music is just Fake Deep, and he acts like he’s a savior of hip-hop
Oisín Brew-Dinan u understood that u answered to a 5 months old comment?
Notice iOS nice argument but that doesn’t mean shit
@ Johnny Taylor I cant believe we live in a world where Tekashi 69 is bigger than Joyner Lucas.😂
Jay well they aren’t really comparable since 6ix9ine’s popularity has more to do with his online persona and his trolling than his music. If Joyner was doing the shit 6ix9ine was doing he’d likely be in a similar position
You know who else they called corny at first, ludacris and he straight up changed the game with the all similes and metaphors.
@BxxDxx Hoodoo yup with 3 grammies, 9 bet awards. 1 mtv vma, 1 screen guild, and 1 cmt music award, and 26 other nominations. Not everyone likes mumble rap, and fake gangster and drug rap sorry lol
I think his respected as a Emcee. Joyner doesn’t have a consistent discography at this point. He’s mostly known for his viral music videos and freestyles.
The quote from The Ringer is accurate about Logic recent content.
they dont have depth man thats it.. they dont know what they talking about
👏👏👏......another person who actually makes sense....👌
the problem with joyner is tory lanez proved that even though he is talented, he isnt special which made him corny at an observational value
sometimes he feels like a fast rapper saying a lot of nothing (i.e zeze and offended, he fell short)
I personally think it's a tie.
He's talented, but unexceptional. Tory has a more successful career, but he's about as relevant to hip hop as Flo-Rida.
nobody is totally perfect he has a downside just like any artist nobody is "universally" loved where i live people find j cole corny and kendrick too what you are saying is basically pointless the man is talented and making a living off what he loves good for him foh
I say joyner is really talented......I mean aint nobody out there that can do what joyner did on revenge
My favorite song by bruh
“CORNY”??
“DO YOU LISTEN TO MUSIC OR DO YOU SKIM THROUGH IT?”(JAY-Z)
"I'm sorry" will forever be one of my fav rap songs. The message of that song is simply amazing. Even better than Logic's attempt imo. It just hits deeper. It feels more true / realistic. Also, his remix of Bank account it definitely my fav remix !
Saw joyner, i clicked. I am indeed a simple man.
anonymous. The nigga wants both
Very simple lmfao
Indeed @Vxbe
This guy probably listens to lil pump before he goes to bed at night 😂
Dr. Blue 😂
So
Hahahahah lol
When the video said 'Eminem is considered corny', I knew it was time to leave.
Logic is WAAAAAAYYYYYYYY out of his prime.
He said WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY lmao
He has been on a roller coaster since tits
I agree. He been tryna drop too many projects and honestly needs a break from rap . I agree
I don’t think he’s outta his prime, I think he’s just been on a rollercoaster like that dude said.
@@CarlosSchultzMusic explain
He's respected by artists that actually stood the test of time with their lyricism, delivery, and overall skill. This generation doesn't care about that as much sadly.
They preach garbage 🗑
Who’s here after Joyner released his new song “Will” 🔥🔥🔥
Imagine thinking joyner is corny have u listened to more then 2 of his song? Everything said about every artist mentioned in this video isnt backed up by actual facts.
Steven G ya he corny he’s just very unoriginal and over saturates his topics with lack of concept and creativity
Yesterday on his concert Snoop Dogg was rapping with him.
Miller Zalan wait fr?
Yo this guy has no idea what he's talking about
Joyner is my boy bro I love his music dude reppin all of us with ADHD and he hops in and token we’re the first rappers I ever got to see perform live all at the same show that energy was off the fucking chain
Hip hop does not hate on Joyner. Hip hop respects him. Hip hop artists respect him. The 14-15 year old kids who control the streams lean twords lean rap lol. And anything that isn't drugs and cars and hoes isn't hard enough and is "corny" hip hop is about being raw and being yourself. Joyner and logic hit hip hop where it matters. They are real.
I'm 15. Lyrical rap is gr8.
Forget them. WHY YALL NOT GIVING BIG KRIT HIS DUE? NICK GRANT, RAPSODY, 3DNATEE
Sorry but for me I only like KRIT on features tbh.
Been bumping K.R.I.T is Here since 12am
B.i.g krit just created one of the best album's of the year. He's terribly underrated.
What y'all talking about? Respect doesn't always necessarily come from the fans and critics
He doesn’t have much of a spot in the hip hop community. In the community, he’s just another rapper
clickbait mullings bro, your like 13, you have no idea what the actual hip hop community is, he’s just another “rapper” in the little kid rap community tho, I’ll give you that.
Joyner Lucas is one of the most underrated rappers that I know of.
I think another thing holding him back is that Joyner has a bit of a dated flow; mainstream rap has either gotten weird, more off kitler flows and bars, or just trap heavy and slow.
Joyner would have fit perfectly in the early 2010s. I'm a fan of his as he's really talented and has interesting takes on situations but his whole style isn't particularly fresh or new. I think he came up a few years too late
lol you two are morons. Joyner is landing features with major producers like timbaland and artists like Eminem and you think he’s being “held back”? The guy skyrocketed to success in just one year. If that’s held back I’d like to see him not held back. Wtf are you talking about?
When Eminem first came out people hated on him too, calling him ‘corny’ too, now look at him arguably the greatest rapper of all time. Apparently you are labeled as ‘corny’ for having a creative mind and producing lyrics that do not include how much money, hoes, and cars you get 🤷🏽♂️ it’s quite sad honestly that there’s somebody as great as Joyner Lucas that doesn’t get the credit he deserves because he is a lot better than 95% rappers right now (to me he’s at the top) and his bars literally go right over some of the audience’s head. I want someone to give me example of his ‘corniness’ 🙄
When you can't explain logically WHY YOU DON'T LIKE A SPECIFIC RAPPER u call him corny.
I mean he explained it in this video well. A lot of his lyrics come off as tactless and not impactful at all. When you try to preach you are holier than thou for shit like drug abuse, it falls of deaf ears for a lot of listeners. Its like singing country and trying to shit on agriculture or conservatism, a lot of the people it will reach will not give a shit.
Yeah cuz that’s equivalent lol
Logic in his prime? His last album was ass and might be his worst.
The Burger Republic popularity wise
He still shows capability, he just became watered down because he lacks the hunger.
@TCT
I feel like you're just telling yourself that. Corny has a meaning, and it is used properly in this case.
His Sales wise prime
I think they mean peak popularity
"Insult me in a line compliment me on the next". -Eminem
Joyner is the truth. He's the future, and doesn't need to mumble rap. He's a great storyteller, edgy, and his pen game is impeccable.
In this mumble rap -soundcloud era people just don't appreciate actual talent.
INACCURATE! This is based on YOUR research and YOUR beliefs.
Joyner is SLEPT ON!
DON'T@ ME
Joyner is the best out right now he's just starting
No he is not
@@wathtuber300 thank you
Even if Joyner doesn’t get acknowledged for being one of the best, I will still acknowledge that he is. Idc about what certain critics say. I don’t believe any of his music is corny. People are sleeping on this man and won’t give him the credit he deserves. I hope something like this doesn’t discourage him bc seeing a great rapper like this put to shame is fucked. One day this man will also be known as a legend.
Facts even great rappers and legends like busta rhymes, eminem, hopsin and royce praised him. Joyner is my top 5 as well. He has everything to surpass every great rapper.
he will never be a legend nothing stands out from him
@@_Spider4 opinions are like assholes. Everyone got one even if it’s wrong 🤷🏻♂️
@@vivierdrayton you have to be 11 if you think he's even considered to be a legend. he is a em copy
So what you're saying is Joyner's biggest mistake is collabing with white rappers (I'm including Logic)?
anonymous oh yeah yeah commander I am not black and trump said I was a drug dealing rapeist I have never sold drugs in my life....lol
@@jackyoou4311 you're fucking crazy and im not even white damn boy
Racist always vomit, they don't speak sense...Joyner Lucas is always out of their league fake rappers.
@@jackyoou4311 fuck you
jack yoou what’re u so defensive about 😂😂
this video is problematic... HHM doesn’t represent my hip hop views and I didn’t really think they explained just what they meant of why hip hop doesn’t respect Joyner.
The man may not be at the top, but has got enough credit on his name that the work speaks for itself. All y’all did was compare the man to Logic, WHY... and talk about his music as if every song is suppose to hit... c’mon y’all owe the man better, given what’s he’s contributed so far...
They're not supposed to make a video about your views. You ain't put in work on the video lol
Joyner Lucas is one of the best rappers out there. Respect 🤘
Lmaoooo
no
Mans mad corny
Ong
how? i barely kknow anything abt him so idk and i dont feel like watching this vid
they don't like Joyner because he's lyrical not mumble
He's not
Yep. Just because someone doesn't like a certain lyrical rapper that all of a sudden makes them a mumble rap fan. That is just like saying I am a Nazi or a white supremacist because I hate a jew or black man that I have a personal grudge with. I don't have a problem with the race it is just individual reasons with them.
@@-BeatsKids there are lyrical rappers and non lyrical rappers.... You don't have to like them but they fall into a category of 1 or the other
@@kingwizop7813 I'm not saying you have to like them I'm just saying you shouldn't say that people that dislike a lyrical rapper are all of a sudden fans of the other genre but have a point about both sides being different.
bro how do u not bring up up the breezy collab when u say biggest names wtf
Back to the old sayin, its hard to argue with a smart person, but its impossible to argue with a dumb one
Because he is against racisim and actually has the balls to help stop it
LOL. Please! He benefits from his I'm-not-Black privilege.
@@shauncameron8390 lmao thats not a thing mate
Joyner Lucas IS Hip Hop, and the very best of it.
racha rappers like Black Thought, MF DOOM, André 3000, Aesop Rock or Kendrick Lamar are far better than Joyner
@@oisoisoisois6735 true dat
To be honest , I respect his pen game. But he's lacking something. substance That song I'm not racist seemed like something to grab the attention of masses, but overall he is just scratching the surface of the matter of racism. Bar for bar to be honest you got dozens better than him. Sound speaking, his beats don't catch that much attention. Bar for bar , pusha t, Vince staples, Cole, earl sweatshirt, joey badass, meechy darko, Freddie gibbs, Kendrick are miles ahead of Joyner. In the end he sounds corny but he isn't. He just needs a different approach. And doing the same lane and attaching to logic I don't think it was a good idea. But, again, tremendous potential. But maybe if he gets more raw substance like staples for example he could boom. My opinion. Plus his style looks like he is still in 2000's lol.
Doesn't matter what style you rap, rap is timeless
You need to listen to the whole 508 album clearly u didnt
Imagine a rapper and some one telling you , you put to much emphasis on technical ability in a freestyle that is supposed to flex your technical ability that’s what you supposed to do
Rapping fast is not rapping good
Nah but good rhyme schemes and flow and complex wordplay is...
Neither is rapping slow... you can fast or slow and be bad or good. Doesn't depend on speed but people only say things like this when people rap fast.
M Mukul Hossain Joyner barely raps fast, that’s part of what he got popular for but if you listen to his discography he doesn’t rap fast that often, he has proven that he can but most of the time he isn’t trying to rap fast
I think its because he didn't come up standing next to a big star unlike the newer skool of Rappers. Drake had Wayne, Meek had Ross. Joyner came up on his own. This means it will take him longer to gain credibility and to be viewed in that light.
He had Chris Brown, and it seems like Eminem will continue to support him in the future.
@@cyber-bully5063 I'm talking about being signed. Chris Brown and the Eminem was paid for by the label. I'm talking an artist who is great never put Joyner on. We knew about him on his own merit. Where as a J.Cole was brought to us by Jay-Z
I guess I like Corny music lmao
Corny = talented these days sadly
@@allseeing4131 Because these mumble rap fans have no brain
50 Icey exactly I aint ever see anyone say lil pump or 21 savage or Travis scott corny
Nah i mean i understand why they get called corny. People like Westside Gunn would never be called corny tho
@@coltongates7397
Or Dave East.
Honestly no one can compare to Joyner even Busta admitted he hasn't heard music like Joyners in over 20 years Joyner connects his words on a different level when he raps you can hear consistency in his bars you can feel the intensity of his emotions he doesn't rap songs he tells stories