I think a better way of describing this is “dialogue as it really feels,” not as it really is. People tend to immediately stop talking when interrupted, but they feel talked over because their internal monologue keeps going. There is a sense of loss, like you’ve gone unheard.
gonna be real honest, conversations i have with certain people do fully include us starting and finishing sentences over each other. we have a mutual understanding of respect and it doesnt feel rude with people im close to. like i wouldnt speak like that with someone i just met, but with my mother, nearly all conversations are an overlapping mess. i do agree that the video is... innacurate in applying to everyone, though. clearly many people dont do this.
One thing I forgot to mention, which makes Baumbach's writing even more impressive, is that there's no improv in his movies. The actors say what we wrote word-for-word.
made me think of this quote in fight club: “When people think you're dying, they really, really listen to you, instead of just waiting for their turn to speak”
Oh I thought realistic dialogue would be with all the grammatical errors we're constantly making. It's often because we started our sentence in a way that can't get across our thought.
GiggitySam Entz right, and I think that with the way this dialogue is articulated makes the meaning and the intent of the phrases more nuanced. The Uhhhs, and false starts, and the "I'm sorry, that d idnt make any sense, let me start over," all of these are taken out.
perfect (comedy) depicment of this is in The Office, where Michael Scott starts a sentence that takes many different directions, then it just dissolves because he doesn't know what point he's making. He's also known for his misquotes, so it's more realistic because of the human error in speech. Although portrayed comedically, it's still a common experience on a day to day basis.
Haha I thought the same thing. I was like oh hey, out of nowhere. That's actually why I'm in the comments lol I was looking for someone else who'd spotted him.
I'm a fan of Wes Anderson's blunt dialogue which acts as a voice for the inner subconscious; people say whatever they feel regardless of the consequences.
Yeah, I agree. In a sense Wes Anderson's dialogue feels right, whereas something like this comes off as an attempt to forcibly seem realistic. In my circles (probably a more European thing, though) we often use very blunt statements, usually with a tinge of sarcasm and occasional self-deprecation.
I guess. I never seen that many fights between spouses, but I found the fight to be forced and boring. I think Derek Cianfrance's Blue Valentine is the most realistic and powerful set of performances from everyone involved. It sticks to you years after you've seen it. It ought to be a cultural landmark in cinema and the overall zeitgeist, but it's hardly ever mentioned.
I feel like the office also has a lot of realistic dialogue. Obviously it's a comedy show so some things are pretty unrealistic but sometimes im really surprised by how similar the serious/normal conversations are to conversations I've had in real life.
Noah Cecil actually that’s not true. Most of it is written, but parts of it are improvised. It had amazing writers and actors. You can listen to Office Ladies, they are discussing what parts are written/improvised. Not the best podcast out there but if you’re a fan it gives you a great insight
I agree that almost all dialogue in film is unnatural and overwritten, but I don't think that Noah Baumbach does it realistically either. Talking over each other and miscommunication happen all the time, but in the end it's still noticeable in the film that the actors are doing it in a scripted, structured way. But I'm glad that no screenwriters are writing perfectly realistic dialogue because conversations in real life are boring and don't make for very good storytelling.
Agreed. But at least there is an attempt to bring reality. In real life, there is far too verbal violence too especially in dysfunctional families. I am trying my own over talking by telling that I dislike people who speak over others only to put them down while I have always tried to uplift othrs.
It's not about being 100% true to reality, it's about offering a more human perspective on the social interactions between people. Art is pieces of reality that is enhanced in order to invoke thoughts or feelings. There's many ways to write dialogue that makes people think about how we communicate with each other, and this is one of them. That's art to me at least.
In all seriousness, Baumbach and the family he’s depicting are Jewish. Jewish speaking patterns are actually linguistically different, in terms of interruption, conversation culture and even pitch. It’s actually really interesting lol
If it is a group there are multiple conversations going on. I have never experienced two people talking to each other and talking over each other like that. At least...two sane people.
Adam Sandler is an underrated dramatic actor. Few filmmakers like Anderson and Baumbach know how to exploit his hidden talents and his quirks for dramatic effect. Unfortunately, Sandler keeps making shitty choices in all of his other films.
The Revolution Good point. And I've read that his later comedies are actually paid vacations for him and his friends. But the only times he gets good roles is when great filmmakers tap him as well as believing in his hidden talents.
"Paid vacation" - yeah, I've totally heard that too in regards to the Grown Ups 'series' (god that last part was painful to write). But yeah, he quite literally takes all his actor pals to Hawaii, or what have you, and just chills in resorts between set hours. To be honest, sounds like the life to me! What can say besides I respect the hustle, even if I don't necessarily agree with it haha
I didn't hear a single um or ah. This is obviously not dialogue as it really is. This is a different style of dialogue, but it is not emulating real, unscripted dialogue.
TGGeko that's a good point. In the same way, I love how the characters all speak with their intent showing, or only lightly obfuscated. I really want to see all of this movie now.
Fair point, but that’s because really, 100% realistic dialogue is a bore to watch and would make for a terrible movie. So I’d call that a type of artistic license, the same by which people are better looking and perfectly lit in movies - it’s a step above reality so that it can be entertaining.
This kind of dialogue never works for me because it always seems like a writer is trying too hard to make their characters interrupt each other, to the point where it stops feeling natural. I think a lot of writers tend to forget that while we do interrupt others speaking out of insecurity and a need for control, we also do it out of genuine excitement. Notice how close friends, in particular, seem to have two methods of speaking. They're either interrupting each other regularly or noticeably waiting for the other to finish. There isn't much middle ground. When I think of the writers who're the best at finding natural flowing conversation, I think of people like Richard Linklater, Kenneth Lonergan, and Joss Whedon. And now, having seen Lady Bird, I think it'd be wise to include Greta Gerwig among that list. I actually think she's better at it than Noah Baumbach, interestingly enough.
Another thing to keep in mind is that people who don't know each other well, or haven't been around each other in a while tend to interrupt or talk over each other, until they redevelop the timing for the conversation. I know that for me, I was raised not to talk over other people, so doing so just feels awkward and embarrassing, and I always get that when talking to someone I haven't seen in a while.
@@deathmonkey3000 theres also a lot of (awkward) pauses where the other person is not sure whether the other is going to say something or not, i cant make a commentary about interrupting because i dont keep track of it but i definitely do it with my best friend a lot where me and her conversations seem to overlap and somehow keep going coherently despite the fact that we are both talking at the same time
this is a representation of a dysfunctional family and is scarily accurate as that. but i would agree about linklater coming to mind in great dialogue writing and gerwig is great. also bo burnham really managed to capture an authentic look into eighth grade.
Exactly. In moderation it’s fine, but I often find modern filmmakers insert things like that that actually make it sound less realistic and just more forced.
I feel like a lot of the comments are proving nerdwriter's point true; about how hit and miss communication is because people naturally try to frame it around themselves. There's so many comments saying about how " _I've_ never had a conversation like this so that makes this video stupid" or " _my_ family isn't dysfunctional so this isn't realistic at all". Well, yeah. But this isn't about you is it? This video is about how realistic this dialog is for a certain type of family, which might or might not be like yours. Edited for spelling mistakes
i feel like that's kind of missing the point tho. people do miscommunicate and talk over each other but it's just the fact the way it's presented in the film comes across as unrealistic and scripted
I think the movie isn't trying to come across as unscripted. I think that it's actually using that 'scripted'-ness to represent how these characters in the movie have thought out the conversation before it even happens, each one searching for a particular reaction from one another, continuously talking over the other person's dialog when they don't get it. I can't say it's not unrealistic, but I have definitely heard people around me talking over each other in similar ways to this. It's not uncommon if you take the time to just listen to other conversations.
yeah it does happen irl sometimes but this movie takes it too an extreme. it was like 80% of people talking over each other. like it get it they don't communicate well as a family and stuff etc it's been done before. iv'e liked some of noah baumbachs films before but this just wasn't entertaining to watch in the slightest
It always perplexes me when I see characters being so articulate. People in real life are never that articulate most of the times and maybe not even as emotionally aware
Good to see you got your computer issue figured out. Thanks for the new video. Realistic dialogue is something hard to tackle because having actors talk over each other feels unnatural yet it is completely natural in real life.There is actual a scene in the movie "The Host" where a character was suppose to get cut off but the script was written in a while where he had no dialogue after the "cut off" so it is a weird scene to watch due to him not being talked over.
Casey Affleck breaking down and telling his nephew "I can't beat it" sticks in my mind as a cathartic moment that is phrased in a way that people actually talk...
Except I remembered it wrong. He doesn't break down. He just says it matter-of-fact. Then the nephew breaks down, and he tries to comfort him. Which is why it's so good... th-cam.com/video/kAcYyreYFyk/w-d-xo.html
The conversation between Matt and Harold was really interesting to me for something specific that stuck out to me. After being diagnosed with ASD I did a lot of research on neurodiverse people and read about a common occurrence in conversations between neurodiverse and neurotypical people. When someone tells a story or expresses concerns about their life, a neurotypical person will usually offer sympathy and consolation, saying things like "that must be so difficult for you" or "I'm sorry you're going through that." Neurodiverse people more frequently have a different response, to offer relatability rather than explicit sympathy by bringing up their own similar concerns or telling a similar story, in order to communicate "see? I understand what you're going through", but it can often be misinterpreted as them trying to make the conversation about themselves. A common miscommunication between people who think differently. I'm not saying that Harold has ASD because of his behaviour in this conversation, but I find it interesting nonetheless. Sorry for the long comment 😅
"when we are speaking to others, we are actually speaking to ourselves, attempting to frame dialogues expecting the person we are talking to, to reflect back the things that we wanna believe about us" that's it. You broke my mind.
The most realistic dialogue I’ve ever heard in a movie/show is in the Norwegian show Skam. Extremely realistic, relatable and makes me feel like I really am inside the scene with the characters. Never heard anything better than that. The worst I’ve heard is definitely the American show Shadowhunters. Everything sounds forced and “too perfect”. The actors are mostly from decent to good, but the dialogue is _ridiculous._ Cringed 90% of the time I was watching it.
i totally agree with Skam. the scenes are perfectly layered too! like how three characters are talking to each other but then one of them receives a text/call and so he reads it but the two just kept talking in the background. the character who received the text somehow is still trying to be part in the conversation at the same time, is thinking about or reacting to the text/call they received. its so good! as an audience, i wanna try to be part of everything thats going on.
Scrolling through the comments and I haven't seen one mention of Howard Hawks, arguably the first person to use overlapping, realistic dialog in cinema. C'mon guys, where my classic movie fans at? Also yay Adam Driver cameo!
I think you mean Howard Hawks, the director of His Girl Friday. But it was actually Charles Lederer and Ben Hecht that wrote the script. Also it was based on a play, The Front Page.
I have noticed recently one of my best friends has a bad habit of interrupting me or other people when he has something he really wants to say, I'm sure he doesn't notice it and it's cool to see him speaking with such confidence but it can be frustrating. This video definitely speaks true to these moments.
You're that one kid in English class that loved writing essays. But seriously, this is so well written and produced. You are very professional and have a great high impact voice. You can forward your point with topics that are easily translated to someone like me (who has little to no knowledge of film techniques) and others that are interested in movie details. Your report is insightful and genuinely enjoyable to watch. Subbed
if this represented what "Realistic" dialogue should sound like, there should be a lot more of, "can you stop interrupting me when I'm trying to say something?"
The Meyerowitz Stories was so good... Been obsessed with Noah Baumbach's dialogue, so glad you made a video about it. Much love Evan! (btw your patreon link didn't work for us.. not sure why) Can't wait for next week's video!
doesnt sound natural though... its just people talking over each other. We naturally stop when were interrupted, or raise our voices. This sounds like two people chanting at each other.
@@jimmyrade7815 Fuck off with that lazy rhetoric. You don't have to be experienced in something to know it is bad - in fact, the worse you are, the better you can point out inaccuracies. When you make something, it must be able to be followed by the lowest common denominator. Your movie should seem natural to even the dumbest of people. This just doesn't seem natural. And also - I may have never made a movie but I can still tell "The Room" is awful. Same as how I can tell what bad CGI looks like.
This depends from family to family. I feel the same way listening to my mom talk to her siblings and parents, lmao. They talk over each other constantly and somehow keep up. This is especially noticeable in small talk or casual conversations between them like the characters are showing here. I'm more like my dad, though. I can't handle such situations, tbh. I just lose track
The Meyerowitz Stories is one of my favourite films to come out this year. You wonderfully highlight one of the many reasons why watching one of Noah’s films is (for lack of a better word) refreshing. They’re honest and incredibly relatable. Hopefully I’ll be able to articulate my love of cinema a little better in my videos after binging your style. xx
In our attempt to model the human brain, TABITHA was the first success. JINGLES was broken, FLUFFY wouldn’t talk, and BOOMER was lethargic. But TABITHA… TABITHA was just like a person. What was weird was that for a while we didn’t even know we had succeeded. When we first brought JINGLES online, we thought we had done it first try. We even broke out the champagne and all that. But after a few conversations it became clear we had to start over. It was like talking to the voice on your phone. When you talk to it the first time, it seems human. It can answer simple questions and has a sense of humor. But try to have a conversation or talk about anything but the weather and you quickly realize there’s nothing there. It’s just feeding you the same information in different ways. So when we brought TABITHA online, we were cautious. We talked. We ran tests. We probed her pain sensors and her smell receptors and her gag reflex. It was all perfect. We should have known form the start that she was different. You could see it in her first words. The other ABs would just answer your questions as best they could, as if the only reason to talk was to respond to the tests. When TABITHA first came online she interrupted our welcome speech. >why cant i feel anything >whats happening >who am i We should have known then, but we wouldn’t until almost a week later. TABITHA was human. We had done it.
Conversation is difficult because people don't understand themselves but they think they do. You can't blame them, humans are the most complicated thing we know of. It's interesting though because when you get two people together who are comfortable in their own uncertainty of themselves, the conversations are completely different.
0:35 yeah and what I like the most about Rick and Morty is how both of their voices are done by the same person but after post-production, it feels so seamless, like their voices sometimes overlap and they interrupt each other as if there really are two people lol. It's done very neatly.
All these people saying that the dialogue is forced and unnatural have clearly never been in a room with a Jewish family before. This stuff is spot on.
I don't think it's them talking unnaturally, but their body-movements, facial movements, and mannerisms that don't line-up while they do it. They look completely normal like they didn't get interrupted at all more than half the time and it seems like they're trying to interrupt each other making it stick out. It doesn't flow like a normal conversation would go even with the interruptions and overlapping. You can feel the hesitation and second long pause before they go in sometimes.
It's more of a "His Girl Friday"-esq cacophony, though, rather than the absolute cringe of most situations wherein people talk over each other. It's great and all but the aims are very different. One sets out to photograph the painting, messy as it is, the other photographs the photograph. 👍👍
I love how that is done in the Iron Man movies. Tony Stark keeps saying sarcastic comments while the other person is talking, which usually gives him the upperhand in any conversation. It keeps the viewer on their feet when it's done well, I think.
I love that he brought up Sorkin because I'm new to his work and just started watching the Newsroom. I was super interested in how he established dialogue in the show. Sometimes I think that the characters all sound the same minus the voice, with high-vocabulary, quick-witted word choice and descripted, calculated sarcasm...
The most realistic dialogue I've ever heard was from the series The Boys. I literally caught myself saying "woah, that's exactly how I'd react if someone told me that" more than a couple times throughout the show.
george zaggogiannis this is so true. It's crazy how he's known as a guy who only does comedy movies. That just goes to show you the importance of picking your roles as an actor
Adam Sandler is a lot like Nicholas Cage, but a little better. Both can act under great scripts/directors or when they want to. Cage has Raising Arizona, Moonstruck, even Con Air and The Rock were decent lol. Then Sandler has Punch Drunk Love, Meyerowitz Stories, Reign Over Me. I just don’t think they really care about being critically acclaimed or only taking good scripts. I think it’s just whatever they wanna do, good or bad.
I just love Noah Baumbach & this movie is so subtle and real. This movie touched the place where we recognize our family talking and trying to listen but not really hearing.
The speech Ben Stiller gave, I think it was for his dad's opening, had me in tears. Adam was great as well. Punch Drunk Love is one of my favorite movies.
I get the dialogue principle here ... Altman did that in MASH too, a long time ago. I find it annoying after a point. Yes, YES, we get it! It demonstrates the personality conflict and dysfunction among the characters. But it seems heavy-handed here, and beyond irritating.
This is the type of analysis we do in ap language and literature classes and I love it so much. Just like super deep analysis of little things and it’s beautiful to see how every little thing has a deeper meaning, especially when it’s intentional from the artist/writer/director
this is a cool video but i have literally NEVER heard any conversation like the examples shown, i dont know if its maybe because the people i surround myself with grew up watching films as i did but most conversations i hear sound more like a typical film/tv show conversation than what was shown in this video
Alex Morley I think it depends on when, where, and who you're speaking with. If you're around people with a lot of anxiety or energy, you're more likely to end i with that overlap.
If you realise what you are doing, it ceases to be an actual conversation. This frequently happens in conversations. It always does, but people just don't notice it because they are taking part in said conversation.
I grew up in a family where everyone has ADD, so this sort of thing is very typical. Topics don't last longer than 20 seconds and we talk over each other all the time.
Wow. I have never even seen the Meyerowtiz Stories, but I could really feel the family dynamics. The bit at 7:01 really showcased Adam Sandler's place in the family, his exclusion I think, and also the bit almost immediately after, with the piano was nice because, again, it showed connection Earned a sub, sir!
yes! yes!! i love how the show and the script leave the quiet and awkward moments (that actually happen in real life because we don't always know what to say next) as opossed to it being a word to word conversation
Hmm. I haven't seen the movie so grain of salt, but I found those overlapping conversations to be a big distracting. It's a cool concept, but after watching it happen several times I thougt it started looking formulaic. I like your observations about human conversation but I'm not sure conversations are always as messy and uncooperative as the ones portrayed were. Love your channel, dude.
By contrast, and simply as an illustration, those conversations were actually pretty linear and tame compared to ones my family has. It's not uncommon for me and my brother to be talking, my mother to walk in and start a completely unrelated story, where one of her word choices causes one of us to spout off some movie reference that the other laughs at while glancing at the TV in the other room, commenting on THAT, to agreement with my mother who starts another line of conversation based on that agreement, before flickering mid sentence fragment to a tangent that requires clarification with one of us, but the one she's talking to doesn't know what she's trying to discuss, so the other one has to fill in details to remind the other when the events mom wants clarified occurred, and AS he remembers, she returns to her first topic, to a unified response from both of us, whereupon we start talking about the movie we referenced. That's a "What're we having for dinner" conversation that happens 2-3 times a week.
I find Woody Allen movies to have the same overlapping realistic dialogue, only with the extra Woody Allen touch. I really like some of those movies, especially Manhattan, because they are charming and realistic, the iverlapping dialogue just make it more relatable and for me have always been part od the Allen charm. I dont know this movie so I cant talk about it, but just because a movie has overlapping dialogue I wouldnt write it off as confusing and hard to watch right away.
I think Silver Linings Playbook is a good example of this. I even remember it bothering me the first time I watched it, because I couldn't keep up with everyone talking at the same time, but then I grew to appreciate the realism of it. Great video!
Noah's movies always makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside. My favourite is while we're young. Particularly because of Adam driver and Ben stiller 's chemistry
One of the things I really liked about the Little Women reboot is that all of the sisters talked over each other. It reminded me of spending time at my best friend’s house with all of her sisters and cousins
I think his point in y his case is that it's harder to simulate someone talking _through_ someone else. But I get you, good formatting isn't really mentioned here :P
2 years later this is still one of my favourite TH-cam videos. Although I cant explain why. I havent seen the movie yet but I still find this video very pleasant.
This video really made me think about the power of comunication and how we often underestimate it, turning our conversations and relationships harder than they supposed to be. Wonderful analyse you've made, it's like I only realized the best about the movie after watching your video. Thanks!
great take on such an underrated movie. i've always thought there was something unique about this movie but i just couldnt put a finger on it. thank you for shining a light on how realistic dialogues show a much deeper meaning towards human relationships.
Just because they talked over each other doesn't make it realistic. That scene with Ben stiller at the diner was especially clunky and obvious that Ben talking under his dad is part of the bit for the scene.
Mr jingles, I agree Baumbach goes overboard in his pessimism both with dialogue and characterization quite often. These scenes are examples. I've had some frustrating conversations but I've NEVER had a conversation as completely, blatantly futile as most of the exchanges in these scenes
Yeah I agree. Doing that in real life is considered extremely rude and would get called out I think. Like, sure people do interrupt, but not like that. Nobody says an entire half conversation under someone else’s half conversation. 99% of the time, someone will stop talking within a few words.
it's not a movie, but it's always sunny in philadelphia is a pretty good example of realistic dialogue. it can be exaggerated sometimes but overall it does sound like how real people (even if they're terrible people) would talk
the fact is that american cinema is innately more theatrical that other cinema cultures (thinking of general european cinema) and so it's hard to find realistic dialogues as they don't fit into its framework, this is not a bad thing it's just a characteristic. if you want realistic dialogues and situations just check 100 years of european cinema, in many ways the anti to american cinema, as it seeks depth through natural filmmaking, choosing simplicity over grandeur. many times when i've shown my favourite european films to my american friends, they struggled to follow, as it was "too like real life", "too normal".
most of Federico Fellini's work, "La notte" by Antonioni, most of Theo Angelopoulos' work, "Satantango" by Bela Tarr. Also my favourite director overall is Andrei Tarkovsky, he was from the soviet union but also lived in europe, i think his films reach deeper than anything i have ever seen in movies.
I dunno if I can agree with that. Yes, the things they talk about in those films are "realistic" so to speak, but the dialogue itself isn't always realistic.
You guys are really making filmmaking look so easy. A future army of filmmakers is getting ready and I am certainly assured that those guys are gonna thank you for your clear and sharp into the film text dissection.
Noah’s films always had these style that are so ordinary they’re almost practically realistic. His recent film, “Marriage Story” - really one of his best work yet -personifies that style.
@@TheGreatKyrillos I wish he could take himself more seriously. He turns out good performances but he keeps shooting himself in the foot with his newer comedies
You’re videos make me happier than I usually am. I feel as if you’re portraying complete thoughts that come out of small ideas which is actually pretty rare. I feel special when I have sudden cool ideas about things but that’s the extent of it, they disappear seconds after because I let them. It’s reassuring and inspiring to see that putting your mind to a lightbulb in your head can turn into something as brilliant as this video. Thanks!
This is an amazing video holy shit i thought it was kinda weird thinking how could dialogue sound different from one another director but this has easily become one of if not my favorite video on youtube its so beautiful keep the good shit up man
I think what some actors miss, that I find Andrew Scott does brilliantly, is the slowness and pacing of speaking. Because, it doesn’t even require the grammatical errors or stutters, but speaking as if you are actually thinking up the words makes it far more surreal and sincere. Andrew Scott’s Hamlet is slow, but he acts as if he is currently understanding and developing his words, which is what really adds to the sincerity of reality.
Brilliant. Hit the nail on the head. Whenever a conversation goes awry, it’s easy to ask “why didn’t I say this or reply with this witty comment I came up with later?”, as most characters in movies seem to be able to do effortlessly. But reality is rarely so perfect.
Sandler is so good with smart writing. Hilariously, though considered a buffoon by many, I'd say he's one of the truest "artist" to come out of SNL. Love when he gets to show a surprising depth and nuance.
littlelildude69 i don't think he needs to only because if you study his scripts in every video, you'll find they are similar to the written essay structure. he provides a thesis (it's also the video title), and he expands on the thesis (his argument) with supporting evidence (clips from film). The only difference from the written form is that he is restricted by the length of his video essay style so he mostly only provides supporting evidence with matching video clips. in written form, you'd also need counterarguments to disprove your thesis or provide limitations to your thesis. your provided evidence should be strong enough to prove you have a valid argument, despite the limitations. anyways, my point: Nerdwriter1 and other video essayists (see Lindsay Ellis as a more extensive example for essays and counterarguments) follow MOST conventions of the essay structure really well because they have experience with college essays. it translates into their scripts. they leave out somethings because the video medium doesn't need all writing conventions. remember the FOUNDATION for essays: thesis + argument (evidence that supports your thesis)
I love the visual representation of the dialogue on top of each other. I'm watching this after just seeing Marriage Story and I can already say I'm a huge fan of Noah Baumbach's work
This dialogue rings just as false to me, just in the other direction. Yes, in real life people don't always take perfect turns speaking and listening to each other, but not to the point where half of everything they say is spoken over each other. Baumbach's dialogue majorly exaggerates this. Or maybe this just isn't how people in my own circle of friends, family, and acquaintances communicate. I won't claim to know what's truly normative. But from my perspective it seems like in communicating with each other, yeah there's misses, but the hits tend to outweigh them. Not the other way around.
I think that this is very connected with the culture and the environment in where everyone have grown. I’m Spanish, and I have seen several times this kind of interruptions in the casual conversations going on around me.
I'm from Brazil's southeast, and dialogue has a lot of pauses, and not a really fast pace. But in northeast the pace just goes like crazy, and people interrupt a lot. My father told an history of a dialogue for weaks, just to show how funny it was.
I haven't seen the movie, but i guess, that is also because of the characters, They are like that. They don't listen to each other. They are a disfunctional family. Also, it is true about the cultural context. I am from eastern Europe, my boyfriend's family is spanish. They laugh about the fact that sometimes I just can't make my argument to "fit in" in the coversation. I am so "polite", waiting for my turn to speak. In Spain everyone interrupts each other and it is a normal part of conversation.
Nice work on this. I especially liked the visual of missiles being lobbed at 3:08 as an analogy to our attempts to be heard/understood at the same time everyone else is. Catching and connecting the use of "arbitrage" was brilliant.
Just from the clips you showed in this video, I actually get the opposite impression that you got. I think the constant interruptions sounded forced and unnatural, especially after it happened over and over.
chippchipp1 Maybe it's because if 99% of TV and movies we see use unnatural dialogue, then actually we get used to that being the style we are most used to seeing even though it doesn't reflect real life speech, so much so that when we actually do end up seeing a movie or play with realistic speech it ends up sounding odd to us. Though the clips in this video aren't the best example of it to be fair. There's a long history of this style being used in theatre long before films began doing it, and the plays I've seen that use it make it work better than the examples given here. But remember too that he's showing us specific clips in this video as the most obvious examples of it, so perhaps over the whole film these situations aren't so concentrated. I haven't seen it so I don't know
duffman18 What? My friends and I don't talk over each other, we always wait for the other one to finish, and in the occasions where we start speaking at the same time we always say "sorry, were you saying?". The only instance where I think this movie gets it kinda right is during discussions as people become assholes during such situations. What I don't really like, however, is the acting because it feels rehearsed, which it is, of course, but the point of rehearsal is to get it to feel as natural as possible.
chippchipp1 nerdwriter is the definition of a movie snob, his pretentious ass is always trying to give everything meaning and making it such a big deal, when most of the time it's just a fucking insignificant detail
Luis Córdoba I think you're kinda right about nerdwriter but I don't think the talking-over-each-other thing is insignificant. It pervades this movie and sticks out like a sore thumb whenever it happens, I think the director meant something by using it. Maybe nerdwriter sees the weird dialogue as "realistic" because he lives in New York (or used to?), maybe a lot of people really talk like that there. I wouldn't be surprised. The movie does take place in New York too, so it'd fit. But it's true, I think most of the rest of the country talks by taking turns, so in that sense the dialogue isn't "realistic" on a national level.
Eli Persky Yeah! It didn't feel like this director was being "realistic" it felt like he was being pushy and heavy handed in his attempt to symbolize the family's dysfunction through their non-communicative conversations.
My reality isn't as heavy-handed as this, but I experience this type of conversation when I'm with my family. The conversation to yourself begins to subside when one person begins listening to the other better.
they do. examples are when you're irritated with the others or when you're avoiding the topic of the conversation. you outright ignore them even though it is obvious that you can hear what they said.
I come back to this video often and honestly articulates communication between family even friends better than I’ve ever heard. Benson if you see this, love you buddy
ok, but this is so important, this whole video put into less than 10 minutes what I keep trying to explain to others when they ask me why I don't socialize with others. I can't understand why I get cut off, or interrupted with constant agreeing or disagreeing, this isn't just how a family interacts, It's how all of us do it. I know I'm not the only one who gets irritated trying to communicate- this explains (What I believe to be perfectly) why it's so easy to miss-communicate with the people around us- and they can be people we just met, or someone we've known for years. it's almost easier in some cases to communicate non-verbally at times, and to just read body language than to try to unravel what others are trying to communicate.... amazing. thank you.
I think a better way of describing this is “dialogue as it really feels,” not as it really is. People tend to immediately stop talking when interrupted, but they feel talked over because their internal monologue keeps going. There is a sense of loss, like you’ve gone unheard.
:(
gonna be real honest, conversations i have with certain people do fully include us starting and finishing sentences over each other. we have a mutual understanding of respect and it doesnt feel rude with people im close to. like i wouldnt speak like that with someone i just met, but with my mother, nearly all conversations are an overlapping mess. i do agree that the video is... innacurate in applying to everyone, though. clearly many people dont do this.
@@kevinkellyswellies >:)
@barbarino really. No one. No one at all? Huh.
no i definitely do this with my family. i dont care if they want to talk i'll finish what i have to say anyway, even if they wont listen
One thing I forgot to mention, which makes Baumbach's writing even more impressive, is that there's no improv in his movies. The actors say what we wrote word-for-word.
we?
I was actually wondering about that in the beginning of the video. That is impressive.
Writing captures people interrupting/talking over each other, just not as effectively as cinema.
we? False modesty pat on your own back?
I love improv. You have to give Christopher Guest his credit.
“Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
Stephen R. Covey
made me think of this quote in fight club: “When people think you're dying, they really, really listen to you, instead of just waiting for their turn to speak”
Unfortunately that's so true.
“When in conversation, do you listen, or do you just wait to talk?” - Mia Wallace
Cringe
@@Leon-ub8pe It's cringe because it's said so much, and it's said so much because it's true.
Proof Sandler is a great actor when he is written well.
Zach Couto Music Punch Drunk Love by Paul Thomas Anderson also shows Sandler’s strengths.
I agree. Many comedians have a good sense of what makes a dramatic performance. But doesnt he write his own comedy movies?
actually this was Sandlers worst movie. terrible terrible acting.
Jesse Nice trolling
Jesse true I much preferred him in Jack and Jill, such a dramatic and moving performance
Oh I thought realistic dialogue would be with all the grammatical errors we're constantly making. It's often because we started our sentence in a way that can't get across our thought.
GiggitySam Entz right, and I think that with the way this dialogue is articulated makes the meaning and the intent of the phrases more nuanced. The Uhhhs, and false starts, and the "I'm sorry, that d idnt make any sense, let me start over," all of these are taken out.
GiggitySam Entz exactly.
There were some, though. Didn’t Ben Stiller start a sentence with “me” at a point there?
perfect (comedy) depicment of this is in The Office, where Michael Scott starts a sentence that takes many different directions, then it just dissolves because he doesn't know what point he's making. He's also known for his misquotes, so it's more realistic because of the human error in speech. Although portrayed comedically, it's still a common experience on a day to day basis.
how did u watch a video and completely miss the whole point of it
suddenly, spontaneous Adam Driver
Haha I thought the same thing. I was like oh hey, out of nowhere.
That's actually why I'm in the comments lol I was looking for someone else who'd spotted him.
I think we all did, obvious adam driver, is obvious
Holy shit.. I scrolled to your comment the exact time Adam Driver showed up..
As soon as I saw this comment, he was on my screen
Adam Driver is to Noah Baumbach what DiCaprio is to Scorsese or not exactly proportional but something of the like
I low-key watch these videos to feel smarter and more like a movie critic.
Were in decent hands here for sure, i think this guy is good
this plus cinema sins makes you a movie pro
I think everyone does.
Cinemasins doesn't teach anything, he gives sins for no specific reasons and contradicts himself a lot.
I love the relatable honesty :)
I'm a fan of Wes Anderson's blunt dialogue which acts as a voice for the inner subconscious; people say whatever they feel regardless of the consequences.
John Smith his films are boring compared to this
@@dlg7555 u cant say they are boring, they are just not your style
@@aminetanouyat9643 He can say they're boring to him because they're not his style.
Yeah, I agree. In a sense Wes Anderson's dialogue feels right, whereas something like this comes off as an attempt to forcibly seem realistic. In my circles (probably a more European thing, though) we often use very blunt statements, usually with a tinge of sarcasm and occasional self-deprecation.
D LG Noah and Wes work together constantly. It’s no surprise that this movie also reminded them of Wes Anderson.
Now that I watched "Marriage Story" I've come to revisit this video. The dialogue during arguments was so spot on that it unsettled me.
yes i agree! it felt like i was actually watching a couple fight
juan torres, I watched that scene thrice because it was so much natural and beautiful! Every body language while saying dialogue was spot on🙌
Yes my favorite parts was when they were screaming at eachother.
I guess. I never seen that many fights between spouses, but I found the fight to be forced and boring.
I think Derek Cianfrance's Blue Valentine is the most realistic and powerful set of performances from everyone involved. It sticks to you years after you've seen it. It ought to be a cultural landmark in cinema and the overall zeitgeist, but it's hardly ever mentioned.
The Room did this 15 years ago, Wiseau was a visionar ;)
Niels Kroon HAHAHAHA I thought of The Room while watching this as well
Yeah can I have a dozen red roses please?
That was an original, memorable movie with memorable acting and dialog unlike the examples used in this yt video which is just tiresome.
Niels Kroon if only he could act good enough to no inspire a documentary instead of the spoof he birthed
peachees Seems to me like you're the expert Peachees
It annoys me that no one says “um” in movies. And people only rarely stumble over their speech or pause unless it’s a plot point.
Ok but would you want to listen to a thousand "um"s in a movie?
@@bocelott I don't think most people are that bad at speaking
I rarely say ummm
Most ppl i know rarely say umm or use fillers
Tv pundits do it all the time - especially tv news show pundits - very annoying
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 I think you'd be surprised if you actually paid attention.
Some ppl take speech courses to train them selves not to umm or ah... it’s pretty common among ppl
I feel like the office also has a lot of realistic dialogue. Obviously it's a comedy show so some things are pretty unrealistic but sometimes im really surprised by how similar the serious/normal conversations are to conversations I've had in real life.
Ya! That’s what she said! Hahahah!
The UK one right ?
@@theoisgod7201 The original and best
It helps that it’s pretty much all improvised.
Noah Cecil actually that’s not true. Most of it is written, but parts of it are improvised. It had amazing writers and actors. You can listen to Office Ladies, they are discussing what parts are written/improvised. Not the best podcast out there but if you’re a fan it gives you a great insight
The typography here is so effective
I agree that almost all dialogue in film is unnatural and overwritten, but I don't think that Noah Baumbach does it realistically either. Talking over each other and miscommunication happen all the time, but in the end it's still noticeable in the film that the actors are doing it in a scripted, structured way.
But I'm glad that no screenwriters are writing perfectly realistic dialogue because conversations in real life are boring and don't make for very good storytelling.
Agreed. But at least there is an attempt to bring reality. In real life, there is far too verbal violence too especially in dysfunctional families. I am trying my own over talking by telling that I dislike people who speak over others only to put them down while I have always tried to uplift othrs.
If real life conversations are boring to you, I really don’t know what to say you must be pretty dull I guess.
It's not about being 100% true to reality, it's about offering a more human perspective on the social interactions between people. Art is pieces of reality that is enhanced in order to invoke thoughts or feelings. There's many ways to write dialogue that makes people think about how we communicate with each other, and this is one of them. That's art to me at least.
Darren Buffington you obviously haven’t grown up in a Jewish family HAH
In all seriousness, Baumbach and the family he’s depicting are Jewish. Jewish speaking patterns are actually linguistically different, in terms of interruption, conversation culture and even pitch. It’s actually really interesting lol
For people saying that when you're interrupted you generally stop talking - you've clearly never been to one of my family gatherings for sure
If it is a group there are multiple conversations going on. I have never experienced two people talking to each other and talking over each other like that. At least...two sane people.
@@Someothername2134 oh it happens. Certain ppls keep talking no matter what.
Exactly lol
It depends on the type of person. But this happens in every dialouge in the movie with every person (just about
)
No truer words could be spoken Emily Anne, I can totally relate.
Adam Sandler is an underrated dramatic actor. Few filmmakers like Anderson and Baumbach know how to exploit his hidden talents and his quirks for dramatic effect. Unfortunately, Sandler keeps making shitty choices in all of his other films.
Money is probably a huge factor behind that trend. And who can really blame him?
The Revolution Good point. And I've read that his later comedies are actually paid vacations for him and his friends.
But the only times he gets good roles is when great filmmakers tap him as well as believing in his hidden talents.
Yeah, he did great in Reign over me
"Paid vacation" - yeah, I've totally heard that too in regards to the Grown Ups 'series' (god that last part was painful to write). But yeah, he quite literally takes all his actor pals to Hawaii, or what have you, and just chills in resorts between set hours. To be honest, sounds like the life to me! What can say besides I respect the hustle, even if I don't necessarily agree with it haha
his role in punch drunk love is amazing, that entire movie is great! PTA is one of my favorites
Loved how you literally overlapped the dialogues in the text. Brilliant stuff.
I didn't hear a single um or ah. This is obviously not dialogue as it really is. This is a different style of dialogue, but it is not emulating real, unscripted dialogue.
TGGeko that's a good point. In the same way, I love how the characters all speak with their intent showing, or only lightly obfuscated. I really want to see all of this movie now.
K
?? maybe the people youre around are just different but i can have a conversation with someone and not use "um's" or "ah's"
One thing I noticed is that the style of speaking was similar to how actors often sound in interviews.
Fair point, but that’s because really, 100% realistic dialogue is a bore to watch and would make for a terrible movie. So I’d call that a type of artistic license, the same by which people are better looking and perfectly lit in movies - it’s a step above reality so that it can be entertaining.
This kind of dialogue never works for me because it always seems like a writer is trying too hard to make their characters interrupt each other, to the point where it stops feeling natural. I think a lot of writers tend to forget that while we do interrupt others speaking out of insecurity and a need for control, we also do it out of genuine excitement. Notice how close friends, in particular, seem to have two methods of speaking. They're either interrupting each other regularly or noticeably waiting for the other to finish. There isn't much middle ground.
When I think of the writers who're the best at finding natural flowing conversation, I think of people like Richard Linklater, Kenneth Lonergan, and Joss Whedon. And now, having seen Lady Bird, I think it'd be wise to include Greta Gerwig among that list. I actually think she's better at it than Noah Baumbach, interestingly enough.
Another thing to keep in mind is that people who don't know each other well, or haven't been around each other in a while tend to interrupt or talk over each other, until they redevelop the timing for the conversation. I know that for me, I was raised not to talk over other people, so doing so just feels awkward and embarrassing, and I always get that when talking to someone I haven't seen in a while.
@@deathmonkey3000 theres also a lot of (awkward) pauses where the other person is not sure whether the other is going to say something or not, i cant make a commentary about interrupting because i dont keep track of it but i definitely do it with my best friend a lot where me and her conversations seem to overlap and somehow keep going coherently despite the fact that we are both talking at the same time
this is a representation of a dysfunctional family and is scarily accurate as that. but i would agree about linklater coming to mind in great dialogue writing and gerwig is great. also bo burnham really managed to capture an authentic look into eighth grade.
Exactly. In moderation it’s fine, but I often find modern filmmakers insert things like that that actually make it sound less realistic and just more forced.
I feel like a lot of the comments are proving nerdwriter's point true; about how hit and miss communication is because people naturally try to frame it around themselves. There's so many comments saying about how " _I've_ never had a conversation like this so that makes this video stupid" or " _my_ family isn't dysfunctional so this isn't realistic at all". Well, yeah. But this isn't about you is it? This video is about how realistic this dialog is for a certain type of family, which might or might not be like yours.
Edited for spelling mistakes
victoriaRobyn I know this is older but you put exactly what I wanted to say into words so thanks
i feel like that's kind of missing the point tho. people do miscommunicate and talk over each other but it's just the fact the way it's presented in the film comes across as unrealistic and scripted
FootyCrazyM8 I think you're wrong but clearly we all have our own truths, I think it's a great film and it's very realistic
I think the movie isn't trying to come across as unscripted. I think that it's actually using that 'scripted'-ness to represent how these characters in the movie have thought out the conversation before it even happens, each one searching for a particular reaction from one another, continuously talking over the other person's dialog when they don't get it.
I can't say it's not unrealistic, but I have definitely heard people around me talking over each other in similar ways to this. It's not uncommon if you take the time to just listen to other conversations.
yeah it does happen irl sometimes but this movie takes it too an extreme. it was like 80% of people talking over each other. like it get it they don't communicate well as a family and stuff etc it's been done before. iv'e liked some of noah baumbachs films before but this just wasn't entertaining to watch in the slightest
It always perplexes me when I see characters being so articulate. People in real life are never that articulate most of the times and maybe not even as emotionally aware
Good to see you got your computer issue figured out. Thanks for the new video. Realistic dialogue is something hard to tackle because having actors talk over each other feels unnatural yet it is completely natural in real life.There is actual a scene in the movie "The Host" where a character was suppose to get cut off but the script was written in a while where he had no dialogue after the "cut off" so it is a weird scene to watch due to him not being talked over.
Computer issues?
Cine Pile Podcast check his twitter
Cine Pile Podcast MacOS update slowed his computer to a crawl.
Before The Credits < How do you know that?
Which scene in The Host is that?
Manchester By the Sea is the best example of this I’ve ever seen. Great movie
koth surprised he didn’t put that one in this video! It’s the best dialogue in a movie I’ve ever seen/heard IMO
omg yes and it's so immediately noticeable. Definitely expected the video to mention it.
Casey Affleck breaking down and telling his nephew "I can't beat it" sticks in my mind as a cathartic moment that is phrased in a way that people actually talk...
Except I remembered it wrong. He doesn't break down. He just says it matter-of-fact. Then the nephew breaks down, and he tries to comfort him. Which is why it's so good...
th-cam.com/video/kAcYyreYFyk/w-d-xo.html
ILL PUT THIS WHOLE TOWN IN MY REARVIEW
The conversation between Matt and Harold was really interesting to me for something specific that stuck out to me. After being diagnosed with ASD I did a lot of research on neurodiverse people and read about a common occurrence in conversations between neurodiverse and neurotypical people. When someone tells a story or expresses concerns about their life, a neurotypical person will usually offer sympathy and consolation, saying things like "that must be so difficult for you" or "I'm sorry you're going through that." Neurodiverse people more frequently have a different response, to offer relatability rather than explicit sympathy by bringing up their own similar concerns or telling a similar story, in order to communicate "see? I understand what you're going through", but it can often be misinterpreted as them trying to make the conversation about themselves. A common miscommunication between people who think differently. I'm not saying that Harold has ASD because of his behaviour in this conversation, but I find it interesting nonetheless. Sorry for the long comment 😅
"when we are speaking to others, we are actually speaking to ourselves, attempting to frame dialogues expecting the person we are talking to, to reflect back the things that we wanna believe about us" that's it. You broke my mind.
The most realistic dialogue I’ve ever heard in a movie/show is in the Norwegian show Skam. Extremely realistic, relatable and makes me feel like I really am inside the scene with the characters. Never heard anything better than that.
The worst I’ve heard is definitely the American show Shadowhunters. Everything sounds forced and “too perfect”. The actors are mostly from decent to good, but the dialogue is _ridiculous._ Cringed 90% of the time I was watching it.
i totally agree with Skam. the scenes are perfectly layered too! like how three characters are talking to each other but then one of them receives a text/call and so he reads it but the two just kept talking in the background. the character who received the text somehow is still trying to be part in the conversation at the same time, is thinking about or reacting to the text/call they received. its so good! as an audience, i wanna try to be part of everything thats going on.
That show was also not afraid of silence. We arent always speaking and they allowed the audience to see what's happening rather than be told it.
OMFG I LOVE SKAM HELLO THERE
Scrolling through the comments and I haven't seen one mention of Howard Hawks, arguably the first person to use overlapping, realistic dialog in cinema. C'mon guys, where my classic movie fans at?
Also yay Adam Driver cameo!
not here apparently
@@suryamohan3410 Guess not.
Shame.
I think you mean Howard Hawks, the director of His Girl Friday. But it was actually Charles Lederer and Ben Hecht that wrote the script. Also it was based on a play, The Front Page.
@@jobelgravia8633 you're right, I changed it, thanks!
baumbach is also just a lesser woody allen or whit stillman. there's nothing original about his dialogue, so why does he get so much spotlight here?
Shakespeare cinematic universe when?
Ique Anything is possible
confirmed
Ique EXTENDED
Ique Shhh.... Stop giving Hollywood ideas...
Ique The Lion King?
I have noticed recently one of my best friends has a bad habit of interrupting me or other people when he has something he really wants to say, I'm sure he doesn't notice it and it's cool to see him speaking with such confidence but it can be frustrating. This video definitely speaks true to these moments.
Sometimes jumping in is a good thing in a conversation, though yeah, may want to point it out to him so he can kick the habit.
Yeah, I completely agree but used in moderation.
You're that one kid in English class that loved writing essays.
But seriously, this is so well written and produced. You are very professional and have a great high impact voice. You can forward your point with topics that are easily translated to someone like me (who has little to no knowledge of film techniques) and others that are interested in movie details. Your report is insightful and genuinely enjoyable to watch. Subbed
manchester by the sea by kenneth lonnergan is actually quite realistic as well
His movies are more subtly made than Baumbach's. Which is actually quite nice if you like slow movies.
if this represented what "Realistic" dialogue should sound like, there should be a lot more of, "can you stop interrupting me when I'm trying to say something?"
Or a lot of one person trying to say something and nobody's listening, and then someone else says the same thing.
Not everybody has that confidence buddy
Sandler lowkey could’ve been nominated for this film. he’s doing so many little things that go unnoticed yet r so important to his character.
The Meyerowitz Stories was so good... Been obsessed with Noah Baumbach's dialogue, so glad you made a video about it. Much love Evan! (btw your patreon link didn't work for us.. not sure why)
Can't wait for next week's video!
Thomas????
Yep hello :)
Yes Theory Hello.You have a huge fanbase in India.Keep inspiring us 😇
Patreon link gives me a 404!
Which is weird, because clicking on both patreon links yields different results. I have a feeling that it has something to do with TH-cam's redirect.
doesnt sound natural though... its just people talking over each other. We naturally stop when were interrupted, or raise our voices. This sounds like two people chanting at each other.
Can’t wait to see your movie!
@@jimmyrade7815 Fuck off with that lazy rhetoric. You don't have to be experienced in something to know it is bad - in fact, the worse you are, the better you can point out inaccuracies.
When you make something, it must be able to be followed by the lowest common denominator. Your movie should seem natural to even the dumbest of people. This just doesn't seem natural.
And also - I may have never made a movie but I can still tell "The Room" is awful. Same as how I can tell what bad CGI looks like.
LMAO you dont go out much do you? people always talk over each other, especially when they dont care what the other is saying.
Can relate. I suppose my personality contributes to it, as I tend to dislike "forcing" my side of the conversation on to the other person.
This depends from family to family. I feel the same way listening to my mom talk to her siblings and parents, lmao. They talk over each other constantly and somehow keep up. This is especially noticeable in small talk or casual conversations between them like the characters are showing here.
I'm more like my dad, though. I can't handle such situations, tbh. I just lose track
reminds me of Gilmore Girls speed talking. no breaks, no pauses, makes my brain tired.
The Meyerowitz Stories is one of my favourite films to come out this year. You wonderfully highlight one of the many reasons why watching one of Noah’s films is (for lack of a better word) refreshing. They’re honest and incredibly relatable.
Hopefully I’ll be able to articulate my love of cinema a little better in my videos after binging your style. xx
In our attempt to model the human brain, TABITHA was the first success. JINGLES was broken, FLUFFY wouldn’t talk, and BOOMER was lethargic. But TABITHA…
TABITHA was just like a person.
What was weird was that for a while we didn’t even know we had succeeded. When we first brought JINGLES online, we thought we had done it first try. We even broke out the champagne and all that. But after a few conversations it became clear we had to start over. It was like talking to the voice on your phone. When you talk to it the first time, it seems human. It can answer simple questions and has a sense of humor. But try to have a conversation or talk about anything but the weather and you quickly realize there’s nothing there. It’s just feeding you the same information in different ways.
So when we brought TABITHA online, we were cautious. We talked. We ran tests. We probed her pain sensors and her smell receptors and her gag reflex. It was all perfect. We should have known form the start that she was different. You could see it in her first words. The other ABs would just answer your questions as best they could, as if the only reason to talk was to respond to the tests. When TABITHA first came online she interrupted our welcome speech.
>why cant i feel anything
>whats happening
>who am i
We should have known then, but we wouldn’t until almost a week later.
TABITHA was human.
We had done it.
adam sandler not selling out and proving his mettle is the little ray of hope, that people aren't totally shitty.
Ya I enjoyed the crap out of it...it doesn't have crap IN it...that's weird. I loved it, great writing, great cast.
Conversation is difficult because people don't understand themselves but they think they do. You can't blame them, humans are the most complicated thing we know of. It's interesting though because when you get two people together who are comfortable in their own uncertainty of themselves, the conversations are completely different.
0:35 yeah and what I like the most about Rick and Morty is how both of their voices are done by the same person but after post-production, it feels so seamless, like their voices sometimes overlap and they interrupt each other as if there really are two people lol. It's done very neatly.
All these people saying that the dialogue is forced and unnatural have clearly never been in a room with a Jewish family before. This stuff is spot on.
There are 14m jews in the world. It is not common to have been in a jewish household.
All the Oy Vehs and shekel clinking must be deafening.
I didn't know you were Jewish, OJ Simpson
Or being in a southern family
I don't think it's them talking unnaturally, but their body-movements, facial movements, and mannerisms that don't line-up while they do it. They look completely normal like they didn't get interrupted at all more than half the time and it seems like they're trying to interrupt each other making it stick out. It doesn't flow like a normal conversation would go even with the interruptions and overlapping. You can feel the hesitation and second long pause before they go in sometimes.
Sorkin actually does the "people talking over each other" thing pretty well, albeit with more eloquent language.
It's more of a "His Girl Friday"-esq cacophony, though, rather than the absolute cringe of most situations wherein people talk over each other. It's great and all but the aims are very different. One sets out to photograph the painting, messy as it is, the other photographs the photograph. 👍👍
I love how that is done in the Iron Man movies. Tony Stark keeps saying sarcastic comments while the other person is talking, which usually gives him the upperhand in any conversation. It keeps the viewer on their feet when it's done well, I think.
I love that he brought up Sorkin because I'm new to his work and just started watching the Newsroom. I was super interested in how he established dialogue in the show. Sometimes I think that the characters all sound the same minus the voice, with high-vocabulary, quick-witted word choice and descripted, calculated sarcasm...
The Cohens do it with less eloquent language, which is a nice touch.
True, Social Network is one example
The most realistic dialogue I've ever heard was from the series The Boys. I literally caught myself saying "woah, that's exactly how I'd react if someone told me that" more than a couple times throughout the show.
imagine if a person actually got tongue tied in a movie...then people would think the actors were making a mistake- People do it all the time
Adam Sandler in a movie with actually good role
Honestly, he is best fit for serious roles. Quit the dumb comedies, Adam!
george zaggogiannis this is so true. It's crazy how he's known as a guy who only does comedy movies. That just goes to show you the importance of picking your roles as an actor
Adam Sandler is actually a pretty good actor when he has good material to work with
Yes in punch drunk love he is really great too.
I was recommended that movie but because of Sandler’s reputation I hesitated. But then I was shocked
Adam Sandler is a lot like Nicholas Cage, but a little better. Both can act under great scripts/directors or when they want to. Cage has Raising Arizona, Moonstruck, even Con Air and The Rock were decent lol. Then Sandler has Punch Drunk Love, Meyerowitz Stories, Reign Over Me. I just don’t think they really care about being critically acclaimed or only taking good scripts. I think it’s just whatever they wanna do, good or bad.
Anyone come back after watching Marriage Story?
@@qngtrnhh O that was amazing. Baumbach's understanding of how people act and think, even the ability to show that, is amazing
i say phoebe waller-bridge's dialogues sound the most natural. fleabag felt so personal yet so theatrical at the same time.
I just love Noah Baumbach & this movie is so subtle and real. This movie touched the place where we recognize our family talking and trying to listen but not really hearing.
Would love to see you revisit this with A Marriage Story
The speech Ben Stiller gave, I think it was for his dad's opening, had me in tears. Adam was great as well. Punch Drunk Love is one of my favorite movies.
I get the dialogue principle here ... Altman did that in MASH too, a long time ago. I find it annoying after a point. Yes, YES, we get it! It demonstrates the personality conflict and dysfunction among the characters. But it seems heavy-handed here, and beyond irritating.
Maybe it should be irritating. Dysfunctional people are irritating to be around.
Evian622 x
These guys were irritating. That was the point.
This is the type of analysis we do in ap language and literature classes and I love it so much. Just like super deep analysis of little things and it’s beautiful to see how every little thing has a deeper meaning, especially when it’s intentional from the artist/writer/director
The Royle Family (British comedy about a working class family) is the nearest to real life dialogue ever captured on a film or tv show.
YES
this is a cool video but i have literally NEVER heard any conversation like the examples shown, i dont know if its maybe because the people i surround myself with grew up watching films as i did but most conversations i hear sound more like a typical film/tv show conversation than what was shown in this video
Alex Morley I think it depends on when, where, and who you're speaking with. If you're around people with a lot of anxiety or energy, you're more likely to end i with that overlap.
If you realise what you are doing, it ceases to be an actual conversation. This frequently happens in conversations. It always does, but people just don't notice it because they are taking part in said conversation.
I grew up in a family where everyone has ADD, so this sort of thing is very typical. Topics don't last longer than 20 seconds and we talk over each other all the time.
This type of dialogue is totally normal in my family. I guess I just got used to being unheard
It’s normal in my family :)
Wow. I have never even seen the Meyerowtiz Stories, but I could really feel the family dynamics. The bit at 7:01 really showcased Adam Sandler's place in the family, his exclusion I think, and also the bit almost immediately after, with the piano was nice because, again, it showed connection
Earned a sub, sir!
You should check out the Norwegian TV series "Skam" (Shame), it is very well made how the characters interact with each other.
My Name I agree especially for younger people where there's a lot of quiet gaps between dialogue (at appropriate moments)
yes! yes!! i love how the show and the script leave the quiet and awkward moments (that actually happen in real life because we don't always know what to say next) as opossed to it being a word to word conversation
Yessss
Yes
Hmm. I haven't seen the movie so grain of salt, but I found those overlapping conversations to be a big distracting. It's a cool concept, but after watching it happen several times I thougt it started looking formulaic. I like your observations about human conversation but I'm not sure conversations are always as messy and uncooperative as the ones portrayed were.
Love your channel, dude.
betotrono yeah it's bullshit really it's annoying in real life...
Watch the movie & experience the difference, its worth it
By contrast, and simply as an illustration, those conversations were actually pretty linear and tame compared to ones my family has.
It's not uncommon for me and my brother to be talking, my mother to walk in and start a completely unrelated story, where one of her word choices causes one of us to spout off some movie reference that the other laughs at while glancing at the TV in the other room, commenting on THAT, to agreement with my mother who starts another line of conversation based on that agreement, before flickering mid sentence fragment to a tangent that requires clarification with one of us, but the one she's talking to doesn't know what she's trying to discuss, so the other one has to fill in details to remind the other when the events mom wants clarified occurred, and AS he remembers, she returns to her first topic, to a unified response from both of us, whereupon we start talking about the movie we referenced.
That's a "What're we having for dinner" conversation that happens 2-3 times a week.
I find Woody Allen movies to have the same overlapping realistic dialogue, only with the extra Woody Allen touch. I really like some of those movies, especially Manhattan, because they are charming and realistic, the iverlapping dialogue just make it more relatable and for me have always been part od the Allen charm. I dont know this movie so I cant talk about it, but just because a movie has overlapping dialogue I wouldnt write it off as confusing and hard to watch right away.
Lmao you guys obviously didn't grow up in a jewish family. We're very pushy.
I think Silver Linings Playbook is a good example of this. I even remember it bothering me the first time I watched it, because I couldn't keep up with everyone talking at the same time, but then I grew to appreciate the realism of it. Great video!
"Communication isnt easy" but you did it pretty well, ur message so clear good job!
Noah's movies always makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside. My favourite is while we're young. Particularly because of Adam driver and Ben stiller 's chemistry
Just saw that one recently. Really, really enjoyed it.
The Squid and the Whale! Baumbach will never make a greater movie.
Doctor Oswald well shit i just watched it right after you suggested it, thanks!
GrexTheCrabasitor sweet! You’re so welcome.
One of the things I really liked about the Little Women reboot is that all of the sisters talked over each other. It reminded me of spending time at my best friend’s house with all of her sisters and cousins
"You can't really simulate people talking ove-"
"Yes. Yes you can"
I think his point in y his case is that it's harder to simulate someone talking _through_ someone else. But I get you, good formatting isn't really mentioned here :P
well that’s more cutting in
Haha
Nope. Your example gives the impression, first person stopped talking entirely. It doesnt show they are actually talking parallel.
I want to list "talking over each other" as a major symptom of a dysfunctional family. Its disrespectful as hell and that's sometimes the point
2 years later this is still one of my favourite TH-cam videos. Although I cant explain why. I havent seen the movie yet but I still find this video very pleasant.
The person that practically invented dialogue that speaks over itself is Robert Altman. Do a video on Nashville!
Characters talking over each other constantly doesn't necessarily equal realism, but I like that you were getting on board
This video really made me think about the power of comunication and how we often underestimate it, turning our conversations and relationships harder than they supposed to be. Wonderful analyse you've made, it's like I only realized the best about the movie after watching your video. Thanks!
I hate when people ignore what I'm saying and talk over me.
Bob Woodward Or when they ‘politely’ wait for you to finish your sentence only with a face like: “stop it, I want to tell you MY similar story”.
Ohh yesss
It happens all the time because I must be uninteresting
I hate when I am in a group of people and they completely ignore what I am saying even don't bother answering something I asked. HAHA
I like bagels also.
omg, the two actors I always confuse with each other in the same movie
Omggggggg IKR!!!
RACIST!
@@jessicabecause3717 how is that racist?
great take on such an underrated movie. i've always thought there was something unique about this movie but i just couldnt put a finger on it. thank you for shining a light on how realistic dialogues show a much deeper meaning towards human relationships.
Just because they talked over each other doesn't make it realistic. That scene with Ben stiller at the diner was especially clunky and obvious that Ben talking under his dad is part of the bit for the scene.
@Stella H I was thinking the same thing. I like what they tried to do but it's poorly done. Just random sentences blurted over eachother.
Mr jingles, I agree
Baumbach goes overboard in his pessimism both with dialogue and characterization quite often. These scenes are examples. I've had some frustrating conversations but I've NEVER had a conversation as completely, blatantly futile as most of the exchanges in these scenes
This movie was hard to watch honestly not sure why ppl enjoyed it
Yeah I agree. Doing that in real life is considered extremely rude and would get called out I think. Like, sure people do interrupt, but not like that. Nobody says an entire half conversation under someone else’s half conversation. 99% of the time, someone will stop talking within a few words.
As another comment said, “This is a different style of dialogue, but it is not emulating real, unscripted dialogue.”
The Subtitle is wrong at 5:55
you still have time to reupload!
However, I will say the subtitles and overlaying of them with the colour changes were REALLY good. I really appreciate the work that was put into it.
yeah can't deny his talent, just thought he might want to reupload it since he seems like a perfectionist
Josh Lin oops
+Bill Bixby why would it be intentional?
it's not a movie, but it's always sunny in philadelphia is a pretty good example of realistic dialogue. it can be exaggerated sometimes but overall it does sound like how real people (even if they're terrible people) would talk
the fact is that american cinema is innately more theatrical that other cinema cultures (thinking of general european cinema) and so it's hard to find realistic dialogues as they don't fit into its framework, this is not a bad thing it's just a characteristic. if you want realistic dialogues and situations just check 100 years of european cinema, in many ways the anti to american cinema, as it seeks depth through natural filmmaking, choosing simplicity over grandeur. many times when i've shown my favourite european films to my american friends, they struggled to follow, as it was "too like real life", "too normal".
What are your favorite european films?
most of Federico Fellini's work, "La notte" by Antonioni, most of Theo Angelopoulos' work, "Satantango" by Bela Tarr. Also my favourite director overall is Andrei Tarkovsky, he was from the soviet union but also lived in europe, i think his films reach deeper than anything i have ever seen in movies.
Orestis Pullini no offence but they sound.... idiotic. "Too real?" "Too normal?" WTF?
WHO SAYS CRAP LIKE THAT?
You need new friends.
I dunno if I can agree with that. Yes, the things they talk about in those films are "realistic" so to speak, but the dialogue itself isn't always realistic.
You guys are really making filmmaking look so easy.
A future army of filmmakers is getting ready and I am certainly assured that those guys are gonna thank you for your clear and sharp into the film text dissection.
Noah’s films always had these style that are so ordinary they’re almost practically realistic. His recent film, “Marriage Story” - really one of his best work yet -personifies that style.
Manchester by the Sea uses this technique of overlapping dialogue too
Many movies do, but it's humanly impossible to find all of them and fit them into a video that isn't hours long.
Manchester by the sea is a masterpiece
Adam Sandler is such an underrated actor. People forget that when he has to bring it, he is as good as any other
lol. that's because he's a hack and doesn't usually have to bring it xD
@@TheGreatKyrillos I wish he could take himself more seriously. He turns out good performances but he keeps shooting himself in the foot with his newer comedies
You’re videos make me happier than I usually am. I feel as if you’re portraying complete thoughts that come out of small ideas which is actually pretty rare. I feel special when I have sudden cool ideas about things but that’s the extent of it, they disappear seconds after because I let them. It’s reassuring and inspiring to see that putting your mind to a lightbulb in your head can turn into something as brilliant as this video. Thanks!
The simplicity of the craft which makes the craft special. Something as simple as talking over each other.
This is an amazing video holy shit i thought it was kinda weird thinking how could dialogue sound different from one another director but this has easily become one of if not my favorite video on youtube its so beautiful keep the good shit up man
I think what some actors miss, that I find Andrew Scott does brilliantly, is the slowness and pacing of speaking. Because, it doesn’t even require the grammatical errors or stutters, but speaking as if you are actually thinking up the words makes it far more surreal and sincere. Andrew Scott’s Hamlet is slow, but he acts as if he is currently understanding and developing his words, which is what really adds to the sincerity of reality.
Major point is how Baumbach is very connected to the Mumblecore scene.
Natural dialogue is what everybody is doing now.
Noah Baumbach is one of the best filmmakers alive
Brilliant. Hit the nail on the head. Whenever a conversation goes awry, it’s easy to ask “why didn’t I say this or reply with this witty comment I came up with later?”, as most characters in movies seem to be able to do effortlessly. But reality is rarely so perfect.
The CGP Grey old music at the end!
The most poignant and familiar thing about Sandler's character is his subtle limp. I swear, I know that guy.
Paying attention to somantics and nuances in conversation has improved my connection to other people far more than I would have ever guessed it would.
Sandler is so good with smart writing. Hilariously, though considered a buffoon by many, I'd say he's one of the truest "artist" to come out of SNL.
Love when he gets to show a surprising depth and nuance.
You should make a video on college essays
littlelildude69 i don't think he needs to only because if you study his scripts in every video, you'll find they are similar to the written essay structure. he provides a thesis (it's also the video title), and he expands on the thesis (his argument) with supporting evidence (clips from film). The only difference from the written form is that he is restricted by the length of his video essay style so he mostly only provides supporting evidence with matching video clips. in written form, you'd also need counterarguments to disprove your thesis or provide limitations to your thesis. your provided evidence should be strong enough to prove you have a valid argument, despite the limitations.
anyways, my point: Nerdwriter1 and other video essayists (see Lindsay Ellis as a more extensive example for essays and counterarguments) follow MOST conventions of the essay structure really well because they have experience with college essays. it translates into their scripts. they leave out somethings because the video medium doesn't need all writing conventions.
remember the FOUNDATION for essays: thesis + argument (evidence that supports your thesis)
I love the visual representation of the dialogue on top of each other. I'm watching this after just seeing Marriage Story and I can already say I'm a huge fan of Noah Baumbach's work
coen brothers have very fun dialogue. I really like theirs
This dialogue rings just as false to me, just in the other direction. Yes, in real life people don't always take perfect turns speaking and listening to each other, but not to the point where half of everything they say is spoken over each other. Baumbach's dialogue majorly exaggerates this.
Or maybe this just isn't how people in my own circle of friends, family, and acquaintances communicate. I won't claim to know what's truly normative. But from my perspective it seems like in communicating with each other, yeah there's misses, but the hits tend to outweigh them. Not the other way around.
No you're right. It feels forced to me as well.
I think that this is very connected with the culture and the environment in where everyone have grown. I’m Spanish, and I have seen several times this kind of interruptions in the casual conversations going on around me.
I'm from Brazil's southeast, and dialogue has a lot of pauses, and not a really fast pace. But in northeast the pace just goes like crazy, and people interrupt a lot. My father told an history of a dialogue for weaks, just to show how funny it was.
Personally, around me people talk over each other all the time, but usually they quickly stop and someone says, "My bad, you first."
I haven't seen the movie, but i guess, that is also because of the characters, They are like that. They don't listen to each other. They are a disfunctional family. Also, it is true about the cultural context. I am from eastern Europe, my boyfriend's family is spanish. They laugh about the fact that sometimes I just can't make my argument to "fit in" in the coversation. I am so "polite", waiting for my turn to speak. In Spain everyone interrupts each other and it is a normal part of conversation.
Nice work on this. I especially liked the visual of missiles being lobbed at 3:08 as an analogy to our attempts to be heard/understood at the same time everyone else is. Catching and connecting the use of "arbitrage" was brilliant.
Just from the clips you showed in this video, I actually get the opposite impression that you got. I think the constant interruptions sounded forced and unnatural, especially after it happened over and over.
chippchipp1 I completely agree, I came looking through the comments hoping somebody had said this.
chippchipp1 Maybe it's because if 99% of TV and movies we see use unnatural dialogue, then actually we get used to that being the style we are most used to seeing even though it doesn't reflect real life speech, so much so that when we actually do end up seeing a movie or play with realistic speech it ends up sounding odd to us. Though the clips in this video aren't the best example of it to be fair. There's a long history of this style being used in theatre long before films began doing it, and the plays I've seen that use it make it work better than the examples given here. But remember too that he's showing us specific clips in this video as the most obvious examples of it, so perhaps over the whole film these situations aren't so concentrated. I haven't seen it so I don't know
duffman18 What? My friends and I don't talk over each other, we always wait for the other one to finish, and in the occasions where we start speaking at the same time we always say "sorry, were you saying?". The only instance where I think this movie gets it kinda right is during discussions as people become assholes during such situations.
What I don't really like, however, is the acting because it feels rehearsed, which it is, of course, but the point of rehearsal is to get it to feel as natural as possible.
chippchipp1 nerdwriter is the definition of a movie snob, his pretentious ass is always trying to give everything meaning and making it such a big deal, when most of the time it's just a fucking insignificant detail
Luis Córdoba I think you're kinda right about nerdwriter but I don't think the talking-over-each-other thing is insignificant. It pervades this movie and sticks out like a sore thumb whenever it happens, I think the director meant something by using it. Maybe nerdwriter sees the weird dialogue as "realistic" because he lives in New York (or used to?), maybe a lot of people really talk like that there. I wouldn't be surprised. The movie does take place in New York too, so it'd fit. But it's true, I think most of the rest of the country talks by taking turns, so in that sense the dialogue isn't "realistic" on a national level.
Do people really directly talk over each other about completely different subjects? Seems very unusual to me
Eli Persky Yeah! It didn't feel like this director was being "realistic" it felt like he was being pushy and heavy handed in his attempt to symbolize the family's dysfunction through their non-communicative conversations.
My reality isn't as heavy-handed as this, but I experience this type of conversation when I'm with my family. The conversation to yourself begins to subside when one person begins listening to the other better.
they do. examples are when you're irritated with the others or when you're avoiding the topic of the conversation. you outright ignore them even though it is obvious that you can hear what they said.
yes when i talk my mom often talk over me
It's a rude way to tell the other person to shut up bc you don't care about what they're talking about
I come back to this video often and honestly articulates communication between family even friends better than I’ve ever heard. Benson if you see this, love you buddy
I love how every typography move syncs with a beat in the background music.
Your videos should posted on r/oddlysatisfying.
Such a great video!
The most organic dialogue in cinema I can think of is the one in "Before Sunrise" and rest of the trilogy.
ok, but this is so important, this whole video put into less than 10 minutes what I keep trying to explain to others when they ask me why I don't socialize with others. I can't understand why I get cut off, or interrupted with constant agreeing or disagreeing, this isn't just how a family interacts, It's how all of us do it. I know I'm not the only one who gets irritated trying to communicate- this explains (What I believe to be perfectly) why it's so easy to miss-communicate with the people around us- and they can be people we just met, or someone we've known for years. it's almost easier in some cases to communicate non-verbally at times, and to just read body language than to try to unravel what others are trying to communicate.... amazing. thank you.
I just watched Marriage Story and this was exactly what I was thinking about while watching it, before I knew it was directed by Baumbach