I don't get why you 2jz fanatics get so worked up about dumb stuff , do you think the day the 2jz came out it made crazy power figures no it didn't some people probably blew up that engine multipe times in the research and development to get it to make more power reliably i guarentee you if people put effort into any engine it has the potential to be a beast and also the B58 is superior lighter better sounds better everything about it is better BMW is the king of inline 6 engines
@@KingChadKennedy you had up until you said the b58 sounds good, that's the only thing I disagree with. But then again my favorite sounding engine is a SR20 so I don't think my opinion on sound holds much value
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam bruh, BMW didn’t force toyota to put B58 on mark 5, toyota chose B58, and there is a reason behind it, otherwise why would a brand like toyota would put a random engine on their halo car
Deez Nuts replied: "You Tube Yes they did have a say in the damn car everything had to meet their standards." WRONG WRONG WRONG .... Shut your Deez Nuts up
@Michael Benson and where are these fake reports at ?? They sent the BMW back to BMW because it didn't meet their standards YET they refused to build there OWN Supra to their OWN standards which would have been EASIER .... yea ok kid
Zero complaints with my B58. Smooth as silk, wide, robust power band, great sound and surprisingly enough....phenomenal fuel mileage. I've seen has high as 50mpg on the highway. And with little more than a downpipe and a tune (I can download on my cell phone, I might add) I'm making upwards of 450-475hp....while not compromising any of the above.
@@alfrede.neuman8611 500ish is E-50 ots. Hell of a tuner if you getting that with E30 without any other mods. On e50 dp and mst intake I was making 510hp custom on Kagan and hes one of the top for b58. I think E-40 or E30 jb4 pushes around480
50 mph on the highway? Thats pretty slow. Didn’t know the performance was so lacking. JK JK in all seriousness I know what you meant. Thats pretty impressive gas mileage.
@@ckojiro Oops...yeah, that was a typo. Don't get me wrong...that's the best I've seen when I'm really trying for it. Average highway mileage is somewhere in the upper-30's..
B58 weakness is fuel pumps and the plastic manifold but other than that it’s pretty solid. But the S58 is too new to tell what’s up with it. The S58 looks like it can hold about to 800hp comfortably with stock internals and stock turbos. But apparently they are starting to send bearings through the block. So only time will tell what else will go wrong with the S58 and B58.
600+hp B58 owner. What an engine... instant torque, capable of hooning it everyday. Very reliable and fuel efficiënt at the same time. But in stock form It's pretty boring if you are after sensation. It really come's alive when tuned.
You have to consider the 8 speed transmission and gearing for helping with that Tq. Once this new 6 speed manual version comes out people will see the difference when it comes loosing boost between shifts and power for that second throughout all the gears they shift
Toyota stopped making the 1FZ-FE straight six (the Toyobarra?) around 2009, while Nissan still makes the TB48DE for the Middle East. Mercedes Benz has introduced a new turbo straight six lately and so did Stellantis, which has a stock hp of 400 and 500 hp on two versions. This new engine is meant to replace the Hemi. Would be cool if you do a video on the Hurricane Six (the American 2JZ?)
I own a 2006 TB48DE Y61 Nissan Patrol also I'm Aussie and I've never heard anyone call the Toyota 1FZ-FE (Toyobarra) lol...the 4L Ford Barra engine actually is called Barra has it imprinted on block and Barra is short for Barramundi Australian aboriginal word meaning "Large scaled silver fish"
I remember years ago when journalists were saying the inline-6 will never make a comeback because of weight, emissions, overall size. I'm really happy to see them making that comeback!
Im not giving the B58 any credit until at least 10 years from now. the engine is still just now proving itself. the reason the 2j is so good is the fact that we are still using it today and its competitive.
Its quite easy but dont pressure your self and try to understand the informations and how and whats of it step by step take your time studying and enjoy
car mechanics is one awesome rabbit hole to dwell into, my friend i've learnt a lot of it thru videos and internet. i have not touched an engine myself, but i'd definitely not be completely lost
Audi's I5 is one hell of an engine too, I kinda like how it has been shaded by other engines. When you show up with one the sound turns heads in a very different way
Audi put the 5 pot in the wrong car, in the TT and audi a3 its in front of the axle and is prone to oversteer. They should have used it in the A4/A5 and make it a longlitude engine with rear wheel drive bias.
Inline 5 is unique but fundamentally flawed engine having 5 cylinders instead of 4 or 6 makes then engine by nature less balance then even piston layout engine.
@@williamtaylorii2360 2018 but no not yet, I’m looking to upgrade turbo soon. We don’t have too much E85 stations close to me so I might stay on 93 for now
Just have to mention the Austrian Ford Barra 6. That one is on par with the 2J making huge HP as well. Ease of modification is what makes the 2J so great.
No its not really mate .. the 2J could take about 30psi of boost and make 250hp per liter absolutely stock witch a barra wont yeh i guess when you thow all the moving parts in the bin and spend bulk coin yeh a barra they make 2000hp but there is a long list engines like that and for a 5 grand set up Barras are hard to beat but they are 100 kg heaver than that BMW much bigger just a totally diffent animal
Really is the modern 2jz, last week supramkv forum shared that there is now a B58 supra running in the 7s in the 1/4 mile. Just think of the potential and cult following of this engine in 15-20 years, will be as nutty as the 2jz these days
If you end up making a video on the squared up bore and stroke, you should compare like 10 of the most common variety engines that go to both ends of the rectangular extremes so that the viewer can get a feel for where the engines are making power differently and how rather than just knowing why.
Here is an example of an oversquare engine that really has no business being in the cars they are in, Jaguar's v12. Originally developed for racing, it somehow ended up in luxury cars that seems too heavy for this type of motor. Apparently it builds revs quite fast because of the over square set up
It is pretty crazy what the 2j has been able to do all these years. Even the n54 from 2006 has been pretty amazing given how they can handle about 700-800hp on a stock block while still having pretty decent fuel economy due to the direct injection if you drive normal.
S54 is pretty cool too 3.2l i6 n it had better heads than the 2jz just doesn’t have the same aftermarket support n came na but boost turns them into rockets
@@bigcheddar9768 yeah, my first bimmer was an e46 m3 that i ended up spending a small fortune supercharging. Still not even close to as powerful as my n54. I've even seen m54 single turbo bimmers in europe that are real beasts.
@@milehighboost5521 what’s done to the n54 man it’s so hard to pick which in-line to go with I definitely want a bmw because imo their about as trackable a family car can be and they come with stout engines already but part of me would love having a 2jz in one simply just because it’s the most loved motor which can be looked at as good or bad.. but can’t beat them join them .. kinda wanna try to find a manual 535i n ether single the n54 it has or 2j swap just because it’s the most crowned motor hard to tell right now I have a gs300 but handles poorly could be the miles but I’d say everywhere besides comfort the bmw is better
Engine is so good, I have two cars with them. 550hp a90 and 650hp in my 340i. Had the old 2JZ in my 97 Supra with over 600hp. The power reminds me of my old Supra, just more responsive.
The real German 2J was the m104, made in the same time frame and even has very similar design aspects.. aside from that they can hold similar power stock and built.. the only major difference is that the m104 never came boosted from factory but they came with a 9.2:1 compression ratio.. Mercedes knew what they were doing and engine holders and tuners alike went to work with these things.. very unknown segment of inline 6’s but deserves a spot light next to the 2JZ and B58 for its sheer quality and strength not to mention how easily accessible they are.. a 2JZ GE (not even a gte) will set you back several grand.. a m104 however only cost maybe $1200 if you’re really smart you can get an m103 and put a set of m104 heads on and save a few more dollars since the m103 and m104 blocks are identical
I think my only contention with the B/S58 is the ability to swap it into another car due to all of the electronic control. I'm sure it can, and will be done, but I can't imagine it is as easy or cheap to do as a 2JZ.
I'm thinking of swapping b58 in gt86 (zn6) Parts (aftermarket flywheel 700 usd, catalytic converter 450usd , cooling hose kit 200usd , radiator 500usd, oil cooler 500usd, custom engine mounts 150usd ,gs6-45bz gearbox 2000usd or cd009 with cut bellhouse for sensor placing 2000 usd , exhaust adapter pipes to fit with 86 exhaust system (60usd) , LuK clutch kit 220 USD , complete engine itself with wiring, ecu , oil pan (3700-4600) USD or even cheaper the price for the parts above are listed with shipping . Overall I don't seem to be difficult done an swap due to electronics if you try to find carefully parts for reasonable price you can get all these for under 8500 USD and do DIY work )
I've got a B58 in my 2020 z4 m40i. Being a 3400 pound 2 door convertible it feels like being in a go kart. Getting an M4 competition xdrive with the S58 next month when my lease ends 😁
Hey man. Just wondering, the B58 is reliable enough for what it offers? I lowkey wanted an F80 but kinda also want the B58 in M340i G20 as my next car. Currently with an F30 N20.
granted its discontinued but what about the australian built ford barra 4.0 straight six its another inline 6 with crazy high power capabilities like there is one i have seen on youtube making well over 2,000 WHP it could very well be a huge competitor to the RB and JZ inline engines and like the BMW b series engine the barra is in all 2003 and newer 6 cylinder falcons
Hard to compare it as a competitor when it's availability is much more limited. Jz parts can be found almost anywhere. If I was to use a barra here in Finland I'd be struggling
Idk man, the Ford Barra is a monster inline 6. I know of a lot of mates that are making serious power on the stock bottom end. You can pick them up for between 1.5k-3.5k.
Ford Barra or Chevy Atlas leave both of these in the dust. An extra litre +, dirt cheap, and they make 500+ hp with a half bar less boost than a 2J. 2J's have gotten way to expensive recently.
It’s just too bad all the shxt around it fall apart and cost much more than the 2JZ parts did. Huge pass. This is the poor mans 2JZ basically. They mod them for a decent price, then they break, and the good balls who bought them, can afford to fix them. Happens a lot in California.
No one captures bmw info properly the s58 is a absolute beast the awd ones are running 9.6 1/4 on the street with a downpipe and tune. That motor is king of the streets rn. Meanwhile b58s stock turbos fbo run 11.5 and lower all day. You don’t need to touch bmw cyclinder heads unless you going for over 1000hp they have great designs. All bmw performance cars are underrated and usually do the advertised numbers to the wheels. Admittedly this video is better then most
@@ilsenote969 Bore and stroke is more math than engineering. Pi*R2*stroke(measurement of TDC TO BDC) * the amount of cylinders gives you the engines displacement. Wanna come back to my place for coffee???
@@TimBaoht i know very well how bore and stroke works but it would be nice if trav made a video about it. And btw, this is my ex her account 🤣 come over for coffe... damn thats low. Also i live in france... 🤣
@@Jeepvanboat funny how Americans can’t get enough Barra motors! It was known as the ‘Seagull’, during development, because it was built to shit on anything! Look at the Street Machine MX5, in the Carnage series, it went the hardest with a Barra in it, even faster than an LS turbo! Well under 10 second 1/4 mile times, they don’t lie. Plus the fact that MANY Barra motors have done OVER 1,000,000km in Taxis, this is the KING of 6 cylinders, by FAR!
@@glenc8680 all I see is taxis getting shit on.and they definitely sound like shit.jdm dominates.then there is the shitbox Barra and it's bogan followers 🤣👍
Us N55 owners are a little jealous of the B58. Haha But overall I'm pleased with my n55. My criticism of the B58 is the timing chain being on the back of the engine. Which makes a lot more jobs an engine out job. Hopefully they don't start developing timing chain guide issues, replacing them would be a real PITA and expensive.
I said it before and I'll say it again: The mk5 supra IS NOT A BMW. it was a joint development between bmw and Toyota, making it both of either company, even tho the engine is bmw and so is the interior
I said this before and i'll say it again.... Toyota had NO say so in this car. BMW offered Toyota a Supra in exchange for their Fusion cell technology ... So BMW made them a Z4 chassis with an M240i B58 motor and the X5 interior and said, here is your Supra, now give us a peek at your fusion cell technology.
Toyota did the exterior... thats about it. oh yeah and the badge on the steering wheel. not saying its a bad car. just saying its not really a toyota. just like the 86.
@@brycestoll it partially is. Like I said, the chassis was a joint development between bmw and Toyota. Bmw used it for the z4 and Toyota used it for the a90.
@@madhavmenon9794 The cars are identical other than looks. all Toyota did was approve what BMW sent them. every supra is produced by BMW on the same production line as the z4. it is a BMW car period. Toyota specifically did this so they could save money and sell the car for cheaper.
With the GT86 & GR86 being the new 240sx, and the B58 [possibly] being the new 2JZ, I wonder how easy or difficult the B58 swap BRZ/GT/GR86 would be And would that be worth the swap OVER a turbo K24a2?
The b58 fits on the 86 and Brz a guy alreary did a swap, even easier on the newer models thanks to they have a little bit bigger engine but nobody didnt did it. About swapping the f20 for a K24 or a B58 depends of what do you want theres not a lot of guys with Swapped 86 with b58 but theres a lot with k24. So its easier to ask a guy with a k24 swapped 86. But depends of you what engine you want, as example i would like to swap fa24 and supercharge it or an ls3 swap on a brz or 86 (first gen) if i am able to get one. The second gen i dont like it a lot but sometimes i like it more than the first gent thank to how practicable they are.
I dont know man, the new mercedes inline 6 3.0 litter in my opinion is indestructable, yes its full aluminum but man its constructed so good, ticks everything in my book
Theres the M104 from mercedes another german JZ and theres the TB48 from nissan that they still making today ppl pushing it to even 2000 horsepower but its like the barra from ford got exclusive to a region and got forgotten world wide i really want to see them get more and more popular and more information videos like this get shared
You need a minimum of 1300hp to go up that Liwa hill climb competition, something that's done with the Nissan TB48DE and a few 1FZ-FE. Lately some V8s are being used to, likely GM LS or Nissan VK.
@@ChrisRobato i dont watch it but i know the competition its crazy even in saudi arabia we build similar "pro hill climb" cars with LS engines and JZs and if you want the fun in cheap a UZ should deliver 5-7k USD for the build and you have a an indestructable engine that will be abused and what great about UZ builds that we do them in the hilux a small midsize pickup 300+HP for it make it a sleeper ready to burn rubber in the morning and shuffle the sand in the night and we use off the shelf parts if something breaks theres parts stores everywhere
I love the sound of a well tuned V-8; and driving HEMI powered vehicles is hella-fun! Nevertheless, some I-6 engines are truly amazing. While they'll never sound like a V-8, when built and tuned properly, they can get the job done! The 2J was built to demonstrate what an I-6 _"can"_ do, but the automotive industry didn't pay attention. Had more manufacturers taken the hint, there would have been many more 6-cyl cars on the road, putting big 8's to shame.
Just to let everyone know the b58 that is in the supra is completely different then before the supra existed. When Toyota and BMW engineers were very early in the states of the supra build Toyota came to BMW after stress testing every nut and bolt on the b58 and gave them several binders worth of changes needed before Toyota would work with BMW moving forward . As you should know BMW made those changes . How do we know they did ? Easy... There's a supra today thank you for attending my Ted talk.
I'm sure BMW perhaps made those changes but there isn't proof of it. In an interview Tadasan said himself that it was only suggested for parts that didn't meet their expectations to be changed. He never said BMW complied. Having owned a 21 Sulra myself the car had a few small issues that popped up so it does make me wonder.
Most of my buddys are vtec guys and turbo Hondas are fast but violent. My buddy took me for a ride in his Supra that has a downpipe and tune. Like dude said in the vid the power was like nearly instant and super smooth. All together feels like the car was built really well.
That engine isn’t proven whatsoever yet. People are too quick to crown the new GR Corolla car of the year when most people haven’t even driven it. Let’s settle down & see how it does the next few years first.
The sleeper i6 is the "Ameri-Barra" - the Atlas i6 - the Vortec 4200. It's a massive "what could have been" because GM - yes, GENERAL MOTORS - made this thing and then stuck it in a bunch of mediocre SUVs in the mid-late-00s and then cancelled the whole engine family, which also had an i4 and i5. Yes, an i5. The i6 of the Atlas engine family is starting to get noticed, but there's like zero aftermarket support for it right now because everybody ignored it when it was actually in production. But a few people with the means to fab up some custom bits are discovering you can push a TON of boost into this thing and get some fantastic results.
If I was shopping in the best buy of car engines, the N54 would be VALUE, B58 would be GOOD, S58 would be BETTER and 2JZ would be BEST. Has to stand the test of time.
@@lennixsingh626 watch the video "Inside a 7-second Ford Barra street car | fullBOOST " there is another guy who was pushing nearly 2000hp on engine dyno with stock crank
@@lennixsingh626 well we talking big hp right...the American v8's are king and most reliable and affordable at that level. Facts are facts. If I want that level of horsepower, I'm looking to a coyote or a LS/LT.
The really only thing that put the 2j over the RB is the displacement and oil delivery if the RB didn’t have oil delivery problems it would be a way better motor lol it’s a better balanced engine all around
I can tell you never owned one or dissasembled one. Iv'e owned and built a rb26 and now own a built 2j. The main girdle brace is only thing that is better on The rb. They have uneven thickness on cylinder walls, oil problems, narrow crank bearings, useless drive for the oilpump, The block tends to crack on the outside, useless cas trigger etc etc. 2jz have zero of those problems. Will never build a rb Again, totally overhyped engine.
Having owned 2 modern BMWs there is a big issue with their engines. No dip stick, this may sound like a pithy complaint but for the oil level sensor to work it requires an air tight system- which means the head gets a lot of pressure, causing the rocker cover gasket to start leaking around 30k miles. Doesn't sound much, but a leaking gasket causes engine timing issues. But I'm sure a large company like BMW have addressed this issue!
I would add that the S55 block is pretty strong too, it just sounds wacky in the newer m cars because of the twin turbos being fed 3 cyl each. And crank hub fail. Currently at 35k km tho at 550hp and no problem.
Great video! Lots of research. Have you ever heard of the 4.2 atlas? It is the American barra basically but larger and better. It is heavier and taller, but stock block 1000hp capable, and also a six liter that sounds better than almost any supra when done right.
Not only did Toyota give their blessing, they made BMW bring the quality standard of the b58 up to Toyota's for reliability. Every nut and bolt of design was essentially was stress tested. That was their stipulation for building the mk5. supra. I still think Toyota should build their own 3JZGTE with their own technology and design. I know why they didnt. -Mk3 owner.
Toyota would've had to spend lots of funds on Research and Development to make a "3JZ" or any inline 6 engine for that matter. Which would've literally brought the pricetag up on the Supra(MK5) like the Honda NSX...and the NSX is literally a sales flop. Go figure
@@lennixsingh626 I ran a 76 mm turbo. I made over 650 rear wheel horsepower just on the waste gate spring and 93 octane pump gas. That was at around 18 lb of boost.
even the n52 and m54 are considered the german 2j because of how strong and similar they are. i6, 3.0l, good for a reliable 500hp on stock bottom end.. i love my e60 not jist for looks, but becaus ethe motor and trans will last me a while.
The M50 and M52 (E36) have been proven being capable of just over 700hp on the stock bottom end, no more, the record being nearly 800hp. The N54 was said to be a German 2JZ due to the easy tuneability of it. The N54's stock bottom end record is like 850hp. The B58's stock bottom end record is over 1000hp.
That’s probably because you don’t live in Europe where folks have been putting BMW straight 6 engines on everything for race and drift purposes. Even the older BMW engines an make good power on Boost. The old M30 which is a 3.5 six SOHC head can make 500hp and almost 600 torque on stock block.
@@srtmetal7647 the north American market motors are just as good, but are far too temperamental when pushing above 650whp, they really can't be competitive in racing anymore
@@srtmetal7647 if you're lucky you can pick up an I6 m50/m52 for less than $500, stock internals good for 500-600hp with MLS HG and arp bolts with proper turbo setup
You should look into 4.0L Barra motor from ford here in NZ and Aussie. These came in both non turbo and turbo. Nuts engines, they can get up and move man. Downside being aftermarket is non existent compared to others as the car is only available here.
Up to this point I been considering a used LC500 for the looks and comfort as well as sound but for less a used Supra can be had and have 10k or so to add wheels and maybe a tune. The Supra has major presence on the road. I was surprised how much I liked it when I saw one in person. This video gives me even more reason to buy a used Supra. You also have the option to wide body the thing later on if you want to to make it look even meaner and wider, specially if you are going to add more horse power. The extra wide tires could use that power
If I see a LC500 driver i think man this guy is smart, probably has his own engineering firm, eloquent steadfast, a real sophisticated man. When i see a supra driver i think childish person whom have not grown up yet. Its really cool car but it represents crazyness and its actually a drifting car, if you tune it up it will make alot of noise and that is awfull. Even the sound from lc500 is pure and wonderfull, and its the most beautiful car on the planet. Just driving the lc500 at 45mph is million times more relaxed and enjoyable fun, then a 1000hp supra. So you probably have multiple personality disorder just by comparing those two.
@@Ghost_buster_313 lol One car is small and a really good handling car that is about the driving for fun and the other is a comfortable beauty that is def more mature You can enjoy both those cars and also like a truck and also like a big sedan etc if you only like one type of car than maybe you should understand the many different uses and reasons people like cars
The new Toyota super six cylinder is the V35A-FTS. It's found on the Lexus LS500, the LX600 and all Tundras from 2021, replacing the V8s. Stock, it makes 416 hp on the LS500. Compared to the GR series, these engines are meant to be using turbos from the ground up.
As a BMW mechanic, no engine will ever be able to compare with the 2J GTE. In fact no modern engine will ever be able to imo. The 2J is so over engendered, thats what makes it the icon it is. Modern car manufacturers wont do this simply because of cost/gains ratio. If they build such a reliable engine, noone will come and give them money apart from regular maintenance. No modern manufacturer wants that. They profit from repairs and spare parts, not from the cars themselves.
Majority of the people in these comments are delusional. They fail to comprehend that the 2jz has basically no flaws and has one of the strongest cast iron blocks on the planet and probably will be for the rest of time.
@@lennixsingh626 absolutely! Also the return oil drains are 11mm wide in order to make the flow of the oil back to the pan smoother and faster. Most engines have 4-6mm holes. Thats what allows the 2jz to rev to 9k rpm without issues.
The b58 has been way overhyped when the s55 and s58 are far better engines. Bigger valves, bigger cams, higher redlines undersquare so loves revs and both engines have already made over 1000whp on stock engines
That's why Toyota wants the S58 in there final edition of the Supra in 2025, but BMW is like Nein! So its either going to come down to Toyota making a deal with BMW and make the S58 Supra Japan ONLY or a Toyota built B58 over 500hp+ stock.
I believe the B58 is a decent platform that can make power. If your into BMW’s or Euro performance than that’s great. With that said my issue has always been using the BMW platform and calling it A Supra. As A Japanese car enthusiast I want nothing to do with Euro or American anything.. That is really the whole problem!
the rb26 is only 2.6L and is limited by displacement and its only good for 500 hp and has oil flow issues. Otherwise its a great motor but not as good as the 2JZ ... Even fully built it can't support 2000 hp ...
The forgotten Mercedes m104 is the daddy to all these designs and is never mentioned, thousand horsepower stock block... Rumored to have been the same as a 2JZ
Finally someone with a functioning brain. it takes time to find the weak and strong points of an engine. you cant judge an engine before its broken in. most b58's still have less than 100k miles. not to mention these guys who are claiming the engine and trans can take xxx horsepower have been driving it like that for all of a couple hundred miles. give it some time and we will see just how good the b58 is.
@@brycestoll there are some B58s out there that have passed 100k or near 200k now but some issues may come down to what and which gen it was. Gen 1 B58s are known for having coolant leaking issues while other new gen B58s have this issue resolved and etc. The supras/Z4s B58 has a stronger hpfp than the older gens making it easier to pass 6-a bit over 700whp easily without issue till they go port since they can't handle over 700whp+ after some time. The B58s stock pistons/rods are rated at 800whp tho the highest someone's ever gotten with the stock pistons/rods is 884whp before they went and swapped in built rods/pistons, they were running mid to low 9s back to back with the car before a pass went wrong and the driveshaft busted the cars fuel tank. The trans,the trans is rated at 8-900whp but some have managed to pass well over that with the trans lasting for sometime before they went(now no im not saying people should do that or"that's normal" just saying its been done)but normally people sit at the 700+whp with chances with the clutch slipping at the 5-6 gears which is commonly known unless its been tuned in some way to keep them from doing that,but after they decide to pass the 7-800whp range people often go and swap a built pure trans built to hold 9-1200whp once they decude to throw more power at the mk5. There are already built B58s in drag built mk5s out there making over 900-1100+whp and have made multiple passes back to back without issue that a few some 2 port B58 mk5s are out making nearly the same amount of power running 8s that are harder to make 1000+whp with because of the head design being a limitation for the unlike the 6 port B58 mk5s running similar power. They haven't been around long yes but there were already people finding the limits of things with the B58 well before it blew up when the mk5 came around.
4 1/2 inch catless , stainless downpipe, pure 800 turbo upgrade , AMS dry carbon high flow air box and metal charge pipe, ECUTech flash tune setup , 2020 A90 Supra on 93 pump gas. 578HP on a mildy aggro tune. I F'ing LOVE
@Jessica Suzumiya but you have a boat anchor in the front and it's laggy as shit. I've had plenty of fun with my 700whp mkiv they are fun but the handling just isn't there.
Great sounding engines have nothing to do with the number of cylinders and everything to do with induction, exhaust and ignition sequence. There are plenty of 8 cylinder set ups that sound terrible and 3 cylinder engines that sound epic. It's ALL about the state of tune.
what most people do not understand is while it was cheaper on cost for Toyota to use the B58. Toyota also had a hand in the reliability factor of the B58 Every bolt every nut was taken back for analysis to make sure it lives up to the Toyota standard. whether it has German roots or not without collaborations we would not have kick ass new sports cars
@@brycestoll i use to work for a Toyota dealership so i knew about it before the public did, thats why i stated what i stated but i i agree with you would to see one over a 100k with stock internals
I hope the valve cover gaskets are better than every previous BMW motor! I love my Bimmers (E60 530Xi & F32 435i MSport), but leaking VC gaskets at 60-70K miles is just stupid!
As a bmw enthusiast I have to disagree. The M54 is a predecessor and it’s simplified. They didn’t come in a turbo option however the engine is a much more robust option to a modern 2jz. It is open deck and cast aluminum but the b30 (3.0 version) has factory forged rotating assembly, capable of reaching high power goals with an na/t. It’s also easier to find parts for as well as much more aftermarket support.
Pretty sure you guys were calling the N54 the modern 2JZ back just not too long ago. So, what made you change your minds? Is it because the B58 has become the trendy engine to talk about, and you needed views, so you decided to make a video on it? I’m honestly intrigued at what you have to say.
I hope everyone in the comment section owns their dream car one day.
Thanks man one my dream cars is still in production lets hope we can get it new
Not just 1, but all their dream cars 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
Thx man you too! I got multiple dream cars: FD RX7, Honda S2000, Lexus LFA and the new supra with a manual
I have mine. 2020 renaissance red supea
@@fnnpc746 Solid list 🔥
When you compare 2 engines with all most 30 years gap… that shows how crazy the 2j is
it's also as heavy as a beast...
I don't get why you 2jz fanatics get so worked up about dumb stuff , do you think the day the 2jz came out it made crazy power figures no it didn't some people probably blew up that engine multipe times in the research and development to get it to make more power reliably i guarentee you if people put effort into any engine it has the potential to be a beast and also the B58 is superior lighter better sounds better everything about it is better BMW is the king of inline 6 engines
@@KingChadKennedy you had up until you said the b58 sounds good, that's the only thing I disagree with.
But then again my favorite sounding engine is a SR20 so I don't think my opinion on sound holds much value
@@KingChadKennedy not more reliable stop it.
@@KingChadKennedy the b58 is not better than the 2jz gte stop it. Can handle power reliably.
B58 was approved by Toyota for a reason. The B58 is a beast.
It was NOT approved by Toyota, Toyota had NO say so in this car, BMW gave Toyota the Z4 chassis with the B58 motor ...
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam bruh, BMW didn’t force toyota to put B58 on mark 5, toyota chose B58, and there is a reason behind it, otherwise why would a brand like toyota would put a random engine on their halo car
Deez Nuts replied: "You Tube Yes they did have a say in the damn car everything had to meet their standards."
WRONG WRONG WRONG ....
Shut your Deez Nuts up
@Michael Benson and where are these fake reports at ??
They sent the BMW back to BMW because it didn't meet their standards YET they refused to build there OWN Supra to their OWN standards which would have been EASIER ....
yea ok kid
the “B” stands for Beast
Zero complaints with my B58. Smooth as silk, wide, robust power band, great sound and surprisingly enough....phenomenal fuel mileage. I've seen has high as 50mpg on the highway. And with little more than a downpipe and a tune (I can download on my cell phone, I might add) I'm making upwards of 450-475hp....while not compromising any of the above.
E30 tune and downpipe?
@@user-ly9zz2rs1z You could conservatively make 450hp with downpipe and 91-octane alone. An E30 tune would likely get you up over 500hp.
@@alfrede.neuman8611 500ish is E-50 ots. Hell of a tuner if you getting that with E30 without any other mods. On e50 dp and mst intake I was making 510hp custom on Kagan and hes one of the top for b58. I think E-40 or E30 jb4 pushes around480
50 mph on the highway? Thats pretty slow. Didn’t know the performance was so lacking. JK JK in all seriousness I know what you meant. Thats pretty impressive gas mileage.
@@ckojiro Oops...yeah, that was a typo. Don't get me wrong...that's the best I've seen when I'm really trying for it. Average highway mileage is somewhere in the upper-30's..
B58 weakness is fuel pumps and the plastic manifold but other than that it’s pretty solid. But the S58 is too new to tell what’s up with it. The S58 looks like it can hold about to 800hp comfortably with stock internals and stock turbos. But apparently they are starting to send bearings through the block. So only time will tell what else will go wrong with the S58 and B58.
exactly
Red bull made 1020bhp s58 on stock block 😂
@@Vacia_323 question is, how long will before it pops?
Fuel pumps and intake are easy upgrades
gen 2 b58 doesnt have those weaknesses
600+hp B58 owner. What an engine... instant torque, capable of hooning it everyday. Very reliable and fuel efficiënt at the same time. But in stock form It's pretty boring if you are after sensation. It really come's alive when tuned.
Crazy to hear about all this economy
I get 38 mpg Highway in eco mode 🤟
How many miles you put on it ?
@@johnnyfilth 74 000 km at the moment
You have to consider the 8 speed transmission and gearing for helping with that Tq. Once this new 6 speed manual version comes out people will see the difference when it comes loosing boost between shifts and power for that second throughout all the gears they shift
Toyota stopped making the 1FZ-FE straight six (the Toyobarra?) around 2009, while Nissan still makes the TB48DE for the Middle East. Mercedes Benz has introduced a new turbo straight six lately and so did Stellantis, which has a stock hp of 400 and 500 hp on two versions. This new engine is meant to replace the Hemi. Would be cool if you do a video on the Hurricane Six (the American 2JZ?)
i would give the "american 2jz" trophy to the GM atlas 4.2L six instead since that hurricane six has a lot more italian dna on it...
I love the resurgence of the in-line six
I own a 2006 TB48DE Y61 Nissan Patrol also I'm Aussie and I've never heard anyone call the Toyota 1FZ-FE (Toyobarra) lol...the 4L Ford Barra engine actually is called Barra has it imprinted on block and Barra is short for Barramundi Australian aboriginal word meaning "Large scaled silver fish"
Just imagine if someone made a straight 6 out of a Honda K20/24, I'd take that over the V8 based K24 thats in development.
I remember years ago when journalists were saying the inline-6 will never make a comeback because of weight, emissions, overall size. I'm really happy to see them making that comeback!
Im not giving the B58 any credit until at least 10 years from now. the engine is still just now proving itself. the reason the 2j is so good is the fact that we are still using it today and its competitive.
Wont be long being its been out since 2015
Remember b58 does it with an aluminum block while the 2j is an iron block. Toyota didn't even use the 2j in the supra race cars cause of the weight.
It's been developing faster than the 2j did so give it time
The B58 has been our for 5 years and people are reliably getting 700 hp out of them with big turbo kits. Its already proven.
B58 >
Mannn, I just wanna be able to understand the beauty of these engines like y’all can
Study cars for a couple minutes or hours a day and i promise in no time you’ll understand
Its quite easy but dont pressure your self and try to understand the informations and how and whats of it step by step take your time studying and enjoy
car mechanics is one awesome rabbit hole to dwell into, my friend
i've learnt a lot of it thru videos and internet. i have not touched an engine myself, but i'd definitely not be completely lost
My B58 just rolled off the dyno with 570hp. Its a beast.
Audi's I5 is one hell of an engine too, I kinda like how it has been shaded by other engines. When you show up with one the sound turns heads in a very different way
The longitudunal 5 cylinder from Honda/ Acura was a dud.
Audi put the 5 pot in the wrong car, in the TT and audi a3 its in front of the axle and is prone to oversteer. They should have used it in the A4/A5 and make it a longlitude engine with rear wheel drive bias.
Inline 5 is unique but fundamentally flawed engine having 5 cylinders instead of 4 or 6 makes then engine by nature less balance then even piston layout engine.
I love my b58, I have 500hp and 560 torque with a downpipe and tune. No fueling and upgraded turbo…YET
i got 450 hp from my 2jz with just bolt-ons and no tune yet.
What year b58
I’d like to make that type of power im only at 420 hp with dp and tune on pump gas did you go e85?
@@williamtaylorii2360 2018 but no not yet, I’m looking to upgrade turbo soon. We don’t have too much E85 stations close to me so I might stay on 93 for now
@@williamtaylorii2360 what tune do you have?
Just have to mention the Austrian Ford Barra 6. That one is on par with the 2J making huge HP as well. Ease of modification is what makes the 2J so great.
Australian*
Get off the ice you clown
It's an availability thing...1 motor is available on a global level the other is only down under
No its not really mate .. the 2J could take about 30psi of boost and make 250hp per liter absolutely stock witch a barra wont yeh i guess when you thow all the moving parts in the bin and spend bulk coin yeh a barra they make 2000hp but there is a long list engines like that and for a 5 grand set up Barras are hard to beat but they are 100 kg heaver than that BMW much bigger just a totally diffent animal
Ease of modification and reliability. Which the Barra doesn't have necessarily. Great engine though
Really is the modern 2jz, last week supramkv forum shared that there is now a B58 supra running in the 7s in the 1/4 mile. Just think of the potential and cult following of this engine in 15-20 years, will be as nutty as the 2jz these days
If you end up making a video on the squared up bore and stroke, you should compare like 10 of the most common variety engines that go to both ends of the rectangular extremes so that the viewer can get a feel for where the engines are making power differently and how rather than just knowing why.
Here is an example of an oversquare engine that really has no business being in the cars they are in, Jaguar's v12. Originally developed for racing, it somehow ended up in luxury cars that seems too heavy for this type of motor. Apparently it builds revs quite fast because of the over square set up
It is pretty crazy what the 2j has been able to do all these years. Even the n54 from 2006 has been pretty amazing given how they can handle about 700-800hp on a stock block while still having pretty decent fuel economy due to the direct injection if you drive normal.
The N52 is pretty good also.
@@CrazyOneToo I disagree. Not in this application. Stock form they’re very reliable engines, but at the end of the day they’re not designed for boost.
S54 is pretty cool too 3.2l i6 n it had better heads than the 2jz just doesn’t have the same aftermarket support n came na but boost turns them into rockets
@@bigcheddar9768 yeah, my first bimmer was an e46 m3 that i ended up spending a small fortune supercharging. Still not even close to as powerful as my n54. I've even seen m54 single turbo bimmers in europe that are real beasts.
@@milehighboost5521 what’s done to the n54 man it’s so hard to pick which in-line to go with I definitely want a bmw because imo their about as trackable a family car can be and they come with stout engines already but part of me would love having a 2jz in one simply just because it’s the most loved motor which can be looked at as good or bad.. but can’t beat them join them .. kinda wanna try to find a manual 535i n ether single the n54 it has or 2j swap just because it’s the most crowned motor hard to tell right now I have a gs300 but handles poorly could be the miles but I’d say everywhere besides comfort the bmw is better
Engine is so good, I have two cars with them. 550hp a90 and 650hp in my 340i. Had the old 2JZ in my 97 Supra with over 600hp. The power reminds me of my old Supra, just more responsive.
The real German 2J was the m104, made in the same time frame and even has very similar design aspects.. aside from that they can hold similar power stock and built.. the only major difference is that the m104 never came boosted from factory but they came with a 9.2:1 compression ratio.. Mercedes knew what they were doing and engine holders and tuners alike went to work with these things.. very unknown segment of inline 6’s but deserves a spot light next to the 2JZ and B58 for its sheer quality and strength not to mention how easily accessible they are.. a 2JZ GE (not even a gte) will set you back several grand.. a m104 however only cost maybe $1200 if you’re really smart you can get an m103 and put a set of m104 heads on and save a few more dollars since the m103 and m104 blocks are identical
Theyre no where near as popular though
Luckily, not many people know this.
I think my only contention with the B/S58 is the ability to swap it into another car due to all of the electronic control. I'm sure it can, and will be done, but I can't imagine it is as easy or cheap to do as a 2JZ.
I'm thinking of swapping b58 in gt86 (zn6)
Parts (aftermarket flywheel 700 usd, catalytic converter 450usd , cooling hose kit 200usd , radiator 500usd, oil cooler 500usd, custom engine mounts 150usd ,gs6-45bz gearbox 2000usd or cd009 with cut bellhouse for sensor placing 2000 usd , exhaust adapter pipes to fit with 86 exhaust system (60usd) , LuK clutch kit 220 USD , complete engine itself with wiring, ecu , oil pan (3700-4600) USD or even cheaper the price for the parts above are listed with shipping . Overall I don't seem to be difficult done an swap due to electronics if you try to find carefully parts for reasonable price you can get all these for under 8500 USD and do DIY work )
@@dmrtagge6274yea and a 2jz get is gonna run 5500-7000
No love for the N55. Where is Rodney Dangerfield when I need him? N55 gets no respect, no respect at all😒
I've got a B58 in my 2020 z4 m40i.
Being a 3400 pound 2 door convertible it feels like being in a go kart.
Getting an M4 competition xdrive with the S58 next month when my lease ends 😁
Hey man. Just wondering, the B58 is reliable enough for what it offers? I lowkey wanted an F80 but kinda also want the B58 in M340i G20 as my next car. Currently with an F30 N20.
@@sambpopashango Look at Freshkiicks M340i. Hes running a downpipe and e50 tune making 475whp. He says its his best daily so far. Go for it
@@sambpopashango S55 is reliable af in stock form
@@sambpopashango if you gonna push over 700hp you should then change the hub
@@jouhajohnny sheesh. That's good to know. Thanks man. I dont have any plans for mods really. Stock form is just good and enough 😂
The Diesel 2JZ is Mercedes OM606. Imagine being able to throw an engine into anything without an ECU needed
A clear distinction between the S and the B,
S58 = Open Deck
B58 = Closed Deck
B58 should be more reliable with higher HP.
Yupp
The S58 engine uses a closed-deck block design just like the B58, so Idk what you are talking about
S58 is closed???
S58 is closed. All s series were performance. Try s50, M50..those are the actual 2jz of europe.
Check the X3M video with the S58 being dyno tuned. I think it only has some E blend and tune making over 600whp. Wish I could afford the X3M.
granted its discontinued but what about the australian built ford barra 4.0 straight six its another inline 6 with crazy high power capabilities like there is one i have seen on youtube making well over 2,000 WHP it could very well be a huge competitor to the RB and JZ inline engines and like the BMW b series engine the barra is in all 2003 and newer 6 cylinder falcons
Hard to compare it as a competitor when it's availability is much more limited. Jz parts can be found almost anywhere. If I was to use a barra here in Finland I'd be struggling
Get off the drugs man get with reality 😂😂
people are doing 850 860 whp stock block on b58s all day. 700+ on these engines are cute
Yupp
Idk man, the Ford Barra is a monster inline 6. I know of a lot of mates that are making serious power on the stock bottom end. You can pick them up for between 1.5k-3.5k.
Ford Barra or Chevy Atlas leave both of these in the dust. An extra litre +, dirt cheap, and they make 500+ hp with a half bar less boost than a 2J. 2J's have gotten way to expensive recently.
2jz was knocked off its purch the day the barra was released.
It’s just too bad all the shxt around it fall apart and cost much more than the 2JZ parts did. Huge pass. This is the poor mans 2JZ basically. They mod them for a decent price, then they break, and the good balls who bought them, can afford to fix them. Happens a lot in California.
No one captures bmw info properly the s58 is a absolute beast the awd ones are running 9.6 1/4 on the street with a downpipe and tune. That motor is king of the streets rn. Meanwhile b58s stock turbos fbo run 11.5 and lower all day. You don’t need to touch bmw cyclinder heads unless you going for over 1000hp they have great designs. All bmw performance cars are underrated and usually do the advertised numbers to the wheels. Admittedly this video is better then most
Yeah there is definitely some missed distinctions between the b58 and s58. In the long haul the b58 I think will be the better engine
@@TheFanatic340 isn’t the s58 also an open block? I forgot if he mentioned that in the video or not but it does play a role in durability.
No bmw is even remotely close to being the kings of street racing. Skylines, gtrs and lambos run them every day, all day.
Yes, please do a video on bore and stroke. I love it when you get all technical about car stuff
You sound like your in it for other than the car stuff 😭😭😭
Real car enthusiasts here, so no i really am all about cars engines and all that 😉
@@ilsenote969 Bore and stroke is more math than engineering. Pi*R2*stroke(measurement of TDC TO BDC) * the amount of cylinders gives you the engines displacement.
Wanna come back to my place for coffee???
@@TimBaoht i know very well how bore and stroke works but it would be nice if trav made a video about it. And btw, this is my ex her account 🤣 come over for coffe... damn thats low. Also i live in france... 🤣
Ford Barra turbo 6, as tough as nails, makes massive power, and is incredibly strong! 💪🏻
😂😂😂😂 talking the king six not the shit six 😂😂
@@Jeepvanboat funny how Americans can’t get enough Barra motors! It was known as the ‘Seagull’, during development, because it was built to shit on anything! Look at the Street Machine MX5, in the Carnage series, it went the hardest with a Barra in it, even faster than an LS turbo! Well under 10 second 1/4 mile times, they don’t lie. Plus the fact that MANY Barra motors have done OVER 1,000,000km in Taxis, this is the KING of 6 cylinders, by FAR!
@@glenc8680 all I see is taxis getting shit on.and they definitely sound like shit.jdm dominates.then there is the shitbox Barra and it's bogan followers 🤣👍
Us N55 owners are a little jealous of the B58. Haha But overall I'm pleased with my n55. My criticism of the B58 is the timing chain being on the back of the engine. Which makes a lot more jobs an engine out job. Hopefully they don't start developing timing chain guide issues, replacing them would be a real PITA and expensive.
previous n55 owner here, yeah I had pure stage 2 turbo bolts ons it just was not worth the money for 450whp. sounded amazing though
I definitely need that video about when you need more bore vs. more stroke.
I have a 2017 m240i and absolutely love it. The b58 is the best engine I’ve ever had the pleasure of driving.
Interesting and cool video. But yes, would love to learn more about engines from you guys
B58 engine is a beast with a fbo you can gap a hellcat
I said it before and I'll say it again:
The mk5 supra IS NOT A BMW.
it was a joint development between bmw and Toyota, making it both of either company, even tho the engine is bmw and so is the interior
I said this before and i'll say it again....
Toyota had NO say so in this car. BMW offered Toyota a Supra in exchange for their Fusion cell technology ...
So BMW made them a Z4 chassis with an M240i B58 motor and the X5 interior and said, here is your Supra, now give us a peek at your fusion cell technology.
Toyota did the exterior... thats about it. oh yeah and the badge on the steering wheel. not saying its a bad car. just saying its not really a toyota. just like the 86.
@@brycestoll it partially is. Like I said, the chassis was a joint development between bmw and Toyota. Bmw used it for the z4 and Toyota used it for the a90.
@@madhavmenon9794 The cars are identical other than looks. all Toyota did was approve what BMW sent them. every supra is produced by BMW on the same production line as the z4. it is a BMW car period. Toyota specifically did this so they could save money and sell the car for cheaper.
@@brycestoll watch albons video on whether the 190 supra is a bmw. I think you will be surprised. The vid is about 3 years old now
The power is not the only factor, maintenance has alot to do with that. The 2J is super simple even 20yrs ago it was.
MKV owner here, great engine so far with bolt ons it kicks ass. Would still put the MK4 over it as far as looks.
Yupp
I doubled the power in my '03 Terminator, and didn't even have to pull the valve covers 😜
With the GT86 & GR86 being the new 240sx, and the B58 [possibly] being the new 2JZ, I wonder how easy or difficult the B58 swap BRZ/GT/GR86 would be
And would that be worth the swap OVER a turbo K24a2?
The b58 fits on the 86 and Brz a guy alreary did a swap, even easier on the newer models thanks to they have a little bit bigger engine but nobody didnt did it. About swapping the f20 for a K24 or a B58 depends of what do you want theres not a lot of guys with Swapped 86 with b58 but theres a lot with k24. So its easier to ask a guy with a k24 swapped 86. But depends of you what engine you want, as example i would like to swap fa24 and supercharge it or an ls3 swap on a brz or 86 (first gen) if i am able to get one. The second gen i dont like it a lot but sometimes i like it more than the first gent thank to how practicable they are.
@@ValenGR86 I forgot about the LS/LT when writing that comment but that's a good point
Did you just compare a 4 banger to a six? Wtf 💀
@@lennixsingh626 people chuck v8s in 86s
@@aydenfellerhoff3160 ok?
It's good only for drag. But not an idle for circuit racing specially on a 24hrs Lemans race. Not like the RB26 it's made for both.
Can you guys make a video about the ford barra engine
I dont know man, the new mercedes inline 6 3.0 litter in my opinion is indestructable, yes its full aluminum but man its constructed so good, ticks everything in my book
Theres the M104 from mercedes another german JZ and theres the TB48 from nissan that they still making today ppl pushing it to even 2000 horsepower but its like the barra from ford got exclusive to a region and got forgotten world wide i really want to see them get more and more popular and more information videos like this get shared
Also the toyota 1fz shortblock can make in excess of 1000hp
@@liamlindsay1458 i forgot about the 1FZ man! I'm surprised by that being a middle eastern surrounded by them 24/7 😃 thanx for the reminder 💛
You need a minimum of 1300hp to go up that Liwa hill climb competition, something that's done with the Nissan TB48DE and a few 1FZ-FE. Lately some V8s are being used to, likely GM LS or Nissan VK.
@@ChrisRobato i dont watch it but i know the competition its crazy even in saudi arabia we build similar "pro hill climb" cars with LS engines and JZs and if you want the fun in cheap a UZ should deliver 5-7k USD for the build and you have a an indestructable engine that will be abused and what great about UZ builds that we do them in the hilux a small midsize pickup 300+HP for it make it a sleeper ready to burn rubber in the morning and shuffle the sand in the night and we use off the shelf parts if something breaks theres parts stores everywhere
Wasn't the M104 out, long before the 2JZ existed?
What do you guys think about the Australian FORD FPV BARRA straight 6 engine ?
I love the sound of a well tuned V-8; and driving HEMI powered vehicles is hella-fun! Nevertheless, some I-6 engines are truly amazing. While they'll never sound like a V-8, when built and tuned properly, they can get the job done! The 2J was built to demonstrate what an I-6 _"can"_ do, but the automotive industry didn't pay attention. Had more manufacturers taken the hint, there would have been many more 6-cyl cars on the road, putting big 8's to shame.
S54 with an aftermarket intake 100hp/litre wants to say hello
GM 4200 Vortec is also extremely slept on
Just to let everyone know the b58 that is in the supra is completely different then before the supra existed. When Toyota and BMW engineers were very early in the states of the supra build Toyota came to BMW after stress testing every nut and bolt on the b58 and gave them several binders worth of changes needed before Toyota would work with BMW moving forward . As you should know BMW made those changes . How do we know they did ? Easy... There's a supra today thank you for attending my Ted talk.
I'm sure BMW perhaps made those changes but there isn't proof of it. In an interview Tadasan said himself that it was only suggested for parts that didn't meet their expectations to be changed. He never said BMW complied. Having owned a 21 Sulra myself the car had a few small issues that popped up so it does make me wonder.
Most of my buddys are vtec guys and turbo Hondas are fast but violent. My buddy took me for a ride in his Supra that has a downpipe and tune. Like dude said in the vid the power was like nearly instant and super smooth. All together feels like the car was built really well.
Next video should be "THIS Is the Mini 2JZ" and be about the 3 cylinder engine in the GR Yaris & GR Corolla.
That engine isn’t proven whatsoever yet. People are too quick to crown the new GR Corolla car of the year when most people haven’t even driven it. Let’s settle down & see how it does the next few years first.
The sleeper i6 is the "Ameri-Barra" - the Atlas i6 - the Vortec 4200. It's a massive "what could have been" because GM - yes, GENERAL MOTORS - made this thing and then stuck it in a bunch of mediocre SUVs in the mid-late-00s and then cancelled the whole engine family, which also had an i4 and i5. Yes, an i5. The i6 of the Atlas engine family is starting to get noticed, but there's like zero aftermarket support for it right now because everybody ignored it when it was actually in production. But a few people with the means to fab up some custom bits are discovering you can push a TON of boost into this thing and get some fantastic results.
Could you do another comparing the Aussie loved Ford Barra?
The Barra is not even in the same world as the jz you clown 😂😂
"The 2jz gte is the indisputable king of inline sixes"
*barra would like to have a word with you*
S58 is more of a modern 2JZ
The S58 is an evolution of the B58 hence the name
S58 is twin turbo
So you’re wrong
@@Mike604 How am I wrong? Is single turbo to twin turbo not an evolution?
@@Mike604 the amount of turbos has nothing to do with the design of the engine bud.
If I was shopping in the best buy of car engines, the N54 would be VALUE, B58 would be GOOD, S58 would be BETTER and 2JZ would be BEST. Has to stand the test of time.
That's true. The 2j has already stood the test of time and the B58 is still too new.
Can you talk about how the Barra in-line 6 can make 1800 to 2000hp on stock crank?
There is not a single Barra making that power on a stock crank. Any Barra pushing over 1600hp uses a Nitto 3.8L billet de-stroke crank
@@lennixsingh626 watch the video "Inside a 7-second Ford Barra street car | fullBOOST
" there is another guy who was pushing nearly 2000hp on engine dyno with stock crank
Ford coyote 5.0 gen 2 and up make 2000hp with the stock crank and darton sleeves all day....trumps all these other motors being discussed
@@SrtifiedHawk your comparing a v8 to in-line 6’s 💀
@@lennixsingh626 well we talking big hp right...the American v8's are king and most reliable and affordable at that level. Facts are facts. If I want that level of horsepower, I'm looking to a coyote or a LS/LT.
The really only thing that put the 2j over the RB is the displacement and oil delivery if the RB didn’t have oil delivery problems it would be a way better motor lol it’s a better balanced engine all around
I can tell you never owned one or dissasembled one. Iv'e owned and built a rb26 and now own a built 2j. The main girdle brace is only thing that is better on The rb. They have uneven thickness on cylinder walls, oil problems, narrow crank bearings, useless drive for the oilpump, The block tends to crack on the outside, useless cas trigger etc etc. 2jz have zero of those problems. Will never build a rb Again, totally overhyped engine.
Please make a video on under square, square and over square engine.
search for it on TH-cam .... OMFG ....
Simply put it like this, under square engines rev higher and feel more raw. Over square would be the opposite.
Having owned 2 modern BMWs there is a big issue with their engines. No dip stick, this may sound like a pithy complaint but for the oil level sensor to work it requires an air tight system- which means the head gets a lot of pressure, causing the rocker cover gasket to start leaking around 30k miles. Doesn't sound much, but a leaking gasket causes engine timing issues. But I'm sure a large company like BMW have addressed this issue!
How does a leaking rocker gasket cause timing issues? 🤔
S58 with a just a tune gets you 700bhp...
Needs after market downpipe to push 700hp. With just the tune it’s 600hp
@@frankmiller7040 Doesn't need them, but it's better for the turbo's.
@@JerainJezza lol if you want your bmw it last the first thing you get is a catless downpipe
No. The s58, needs an exhaust, downpipes and e85 to be able to make that power. Along with a flash tune or new computer.
I would add that the S55 block is pretty strong too, it just sounds wacky in the newer m cars because of the twin turbos being fed 3 cyl each. And crank hub fail. Currently at 35k km tho at 550hp and no problem.
Great video! Lots of research. Have you ever heard of the 4.2 atlas? It is the American barra basically but larger and better. It is heavier and taller, but stock block 1000hp capable, and also a six liter that sounds better than almost any supra when done right.
The 4200 vortec ? ?
@@meca13b heck right
Atlas uses an aluminum block thats on borrowed time at those levels, not cast iron like the 2JZ.
@@Sir.VicsMasher NIVLAC57
binge watch his channel.
Not only did Toyota give their blessing, they made BMW bring the quality standard of the b58 up to Toyota's for reliability. Every nut and bolt of design was essentially was stress tested. That was their stipulation for building the mk5. supra. I still think Toyota should build their own 3JZGTE with their own technology and design. I know why they didnt. -Mk3 owner.
Toyota would've had to spend lots of funds on Research and Development to make a "3JZ" or any inline 6 engine for that matter. Which would've literally brought the pricetag up on the Supra(MK5) like the Honda NSX...and the NSX is literally a sales flop. Go figure
I did over 1150 rear wheel horsepower and 900 torque on stock bottom end in my 93 2JZ GTE Supra. That was back in 2006.
Back in 2006? No way in hell bro
@@StockTurboN20 people were pushing these number back then believe it or not. T66 turbos we’re around.
@@StockTurboN20 I first started modifying the car in 1996.
@@Cheato There are thousands of posts by me on Supra Forms from back in the day.
@@lennixsingh626 I ran a 76 mm turbo. I made over 650 rear wheel horsepower just on the waste gate spring and 93 octane pump gas. That was at around 18 lb of boost.
even the n52 and m54 are considered the german 2j because of how strong and similar they are. i6, 3.0l, good for a reliable 500hp on stock bottom end.. i love my e60 not jist for looks, but becaus ethe motor and trans will last me a while.
M54? N52? Are you sure about that... I always thought it was the N54 that was considered to be the German 2j...
The M50 and M52 (E36) have been proven being capable of just over 700hp on the stock bottom end, no more, the record being nearly 800hp. The N54 was said to be a German 2JZ due to the easy tuneability of it. The N54's stock bottom end record is like 850hp. The B58's stock bottom end record is over 1000hp.
@@Josh-qm4rb Interesting 🤔
@@MartinJones123 theres multiple. the new b58 is pretty neat
I struggle to imagine a bmw engine being better than motors like the Barra, LS1, or 2JZ. I'll have to try one out.
That’s probably because you don’t live in Europe where folks have been putting BMW straight 6 engines on everything for race and drift purposes. Even the older BMW engines an make good power on Boost. The old M30 which is a 3.5 six SOHC head can make 500hp and almost 600 torque on stock block.
@@kevinruger8819 Are the ones in the US inferior somehow? Here they are a luxury brand. High expense with low return.
@@srtmetal7647 the north American market motors are just as good, but are far too temperamental when pushing above 650whp, they really can't be competitive in racing anymore
@@srtmetal7647 if you're lucky you can pick up an I6 m50/m52 for less than $500, stock internals good for 500-600hp with MLS HG and arp bolts with proper turbo setup
I have an n52 it's smooth, loves to rev and pushes you back in your seat
You should look into 4.0L Barra motor from ford here in NZ and Aussie. These came in both non turbo and turbo. Nuts engines, they can get up and move man. Downside being aftermarket is non existent compared to others as the car is only available here.
Papadakis already have 1000hp on b58
ON A BUILT MOTOR .... yes
2JZ does 1000 crank hp and has done 1300 crank hp ... on STOCK INTERNALS ...
how much money you throw at it?
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam No 2JZ can handle 1000hp on stock internals! Stop the B.S.!
@@brycestoll That same can be said about the 2JZ on stock block
N54 is king
Up to this point I been considering a used LC500 for the looks and comfort as well as sound but for less a used Supra can be had and have 10k or so to add wheels and maybe a tune.
The Supra has major presence on the road. I was surprised how much I liked it when I saw one in person. This video gives me even more reason to buy a used Supra. You also have the option to wide body the thing later on if you want to to make it look even meaner and wider, specially if you are going to add more horse power. The extra wide tires could use that power
If I see a LC500 driver i think man this guy is smart, probably has his own engineering firm, eloquent steadfast, a real sophisticated man. When i see a supra driver i think childish person whom have not grown up yet. Its really cool car but it represents crazyness and its actually a drifting car, if you tune it up it will make alot of noise and that is awfull. Even the sound from lc500 is pure and wonderfull, and its the most beautiful car on the planet. Just driving the lc500 at 45mph is million times more relaxed and enjoyable fun, then a 1000hp supra. So you probably have multiple personality disorder just by comparing those two.
@@Ghost_buster_313 lol
One car is small and a really good handling car that is about the driving for fun and the other is a comfortable beauty that is def more mature
You can enjoy both those cars and also like a truck and also like a big sedan etc if you only like one type of car than maybe you should understand the many different uses and reasons people like cars
@@UrbanBDKNY buy a honda civic with fart cannon exhaust
“It’s the best sounding 6 on the market”
2GR: am I a joke to you?
The 2grfe is toyota new six cylinder king
*was. That engine hasn't been in production since 2017. The current 3.5 V6 (outgoing) is the 2GR-FKS.
@@damilolaakanni 2grfe op
The new Toyota super six cylinder is the V35A-FTS. It's found on the Lexus LS500, the LX600 and all Tundras from 2021, replacing the V8s. Stock, it makes 416 hp on the LS500. Compared to the GR series, these engines are meant to be using turbos from the ground up.
As a BMW mechanic, no engine will ever be able to compare with the 2J GTE. In fact no modern engine will ever be able to imo. The 2J is so over engendered, thats what makes it the icon it is. Modern car manufacturers wont do this simply because of cost/gains ratio. If they build such a reliable engine, noone will come and give them money apart from regular maintenance. No modern manufacturer wants that. They profit from repairs and spare parts, not from the cars themselves.
Majority of the people in these comments are delusional. They fail to comprehend that the 2jz has basically no flaws and has one of the strongest cast iron blocks on the planet and probably will be for the rest of time.
@@lennixsingh626 absolutely! Also the return oil drains are 11mm wide in order to make the flow of the oil back to the pan smoother and faster. Most engines have 4-6mm holes. Thats what allows the 2jz to rev to 9k rpm without issues.
The b58 has been way overhyped when the s55 and s58 are far better engines. Bigger valves, bigger cams, higher redlines undersquare so loves revs and both engines have already made over 1000whp on stock engines
S55 are turds
That's why Toyota wants the S58 in there final edition of the Supra in 2025, but BMW is like Nein!
So its either going to come down to Toyota making a deal with BMW and make the S58 Supra Japan ONLY or a Toyota built B58 over 500hp+ stock.
I believe the B58 is a decent platform that can make power. If your into BMW’s or Euro performance than that’s great. With that said my issue has always been using the BMW platform and calling it A Supra. As A Japanese car enthusiast I want nothing to do with Euro or American anything.. That is really the whole problem!
The RB's and Barra engines would disagree
Neither of those are in production now
I mean, You can buy a built RB or barra crate engine thats brand new still
the rb26 is only 2.6L and is limited by displacement and its only good for 500 hp and has oil flow issues. Otherwise its a great motor but not as good as the 2JZ ... Even fully built it can't support 2000 hp ...
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam thats why you bore and stroke it out when you build it. Or use an RB30
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam the VR is a great engine to build too that gets overlooked a lot but there are some beastly R35s
The forgotten Mercedes m104 is the daddy to all these designs and is never mentioned, thousand horsepower stock block... Rumored to have been the same as a 2JZ
Yeah that and the M110
Cool video, the B58 is way harder to work on tho
Not really
Thought this was an n54 video🤣
Time will tell how good these engines are.
Finally someone with a functioning brain. it takes time to find the weak and strong points of an engine. you cant judge an engine before its broken in. most b58's still have less than 100k miles. not to mention these guys who are claiming the engine and trans can take xxx horsepower have been driving it like that for all of a couple hundred miles. give it some time and we will see just how good the b58 is.
@@brycestoll there are some B58s out there that have passed 100k or near 200k now but some issues may come down to what and which gen it was. Gen 1 B58s are known for having coolant leaking issues while other new gen B58s have this issue resolved and etc. The supras/Z4s B58 has a stronger hpfp than the older gens making it easier to pass 6-a bit over 700whp easily without issue till they go port since they can't handle over 700whp+ after some time. The B58s stock pistons/rods are rated at 800whp tho the highest someone's ever gotten with the stock pistons/rods is 884whp before they went and swapped in built rods/pistons, they were running mid to low 9s back to back with the car before a pass went wrong and the driveshaft busted the cars fuel tank. The trans,the trans is rated at 8-900whp but some have managed to pass well over that with the trans lasting for sometime before they went(now no im not saying people should do that or"that's normal" just saying its been done)but normally people sit at the 700+whp with chances with the clutch slipping at the 5-6 gears which is commonly known unless its been tuned in some way to keep them from doing that,but after they decide to pass the 7-800whp range people often go and swap a built pure trans built to hold 9-1200whp once they decude to throw more power at the mk5. There are already built B58s in drag built mk5s out there making over 900-1100+whp and have made multiple passes back to back without issue that a few some 2 port B58 mk5s are out making nearly the same amount of power running 8s that are harder to make 1000+whp with because of the head design being a limitation for the unlike the 6 port B58 mk5s running similar power. They haven't been around long yes but there were already people finding the limits of things with the B58 well before it blew up when the mk5 came around.
They are good
@@brycestoll 2JZ got flaws too.
4 1/2 inch catless , stainless downpipe, pure 800 turbo upgrade , AMS dry carbon high flow air box and metal charge pipe, ECUTech flash tune setup , 2020 A90 Supra on 93 pump gas. 578HP on a mildy aggro tune. I F'ing LOVE
@Jessica Suzumiya but you have a boat anchor in the front and it's laggy as shit. I've had plenty of fun with my 700whp mkiv they are fun but the handling just isn't there.
It's an awesome engine but so complicated unlike a nice simple Honda K series
That's what everyone said about the V8 4.6 from Ford.....yet it's one of the most reliable (and underrated) V8s.
The b58 is actually pretty simple compared to a lot of German engines.
3.0 i6 turbo Hurricane (wagoneer) has 510 hp, 500 torque in stock form. Forecasted tune is virtually unlimited.
UNTIL the B58 can do 1000 crank hp on STOCK INTERNALS as the 2JZ does reliably OR the B58 block can support 2000 crank hp, its NOT the modern 2JZ
S58 does
@@TreeHarmony I said the B58 ...
B58 supras have made 1000hp crank HP and been 8s many times now. And no 2j is making 2000hp without a billet block so that's irrelevant
@@Raven0895 They may have made that power once or twice but i promise none of those cars will be running the original engine for long
@@brycestoll and neither do 2jzs what's your point?
Anyone notice he lifted his shirt to his arm pits and is flexing the whole 😂.
2jz is still alot better because its simple compaired to that bmw junk and doesn't have bmw issues
2JZ got flaws too.
And the B58 is equivalent to the Ford 4.6 V8 in inline 6 form.
Got a friend who is a BMW mechanic he told me to stay away from the turbo models - 😥 just not engine transmission problems around 100k
N55 sounds better sorry 😢
The german 2j already existed for a long time now, and its the Mercedes M104.
I don't care how solid it is, without 8-cylinders it'll never sound good
Crazy man, u never heard a 340 with a badass exhaust
Great sounding engines have nothing to do with the number of cylinders and everything to do with induction, exhaust and ignition sequence. There are plenty of 8 cylinder set ups that sound terrible and 3 cylinder engines that sound epic. It's ALL about the state of tune.
You don't need 8 cylinders for a good sound but it's all subjective so whatever
Nothing beats the sound of a V8...
Supras didn't come with V8s
I mean hey, nobody stopping you from building a sleeper Z4 with the B58, and even the S58, after all.
what most people do not understand is while it was cheaper on cost for Toyota to use the B58. Toyota also had a hand in the reliability factor of the B58 Every bolt every nut was taken back for analysis to make sure it lives up to the Toyota standard. whether it has German roots or not without collaborations we would not have kick ass new sports cars
Ill believe that they really did when the cars regularly start hitting 250k miles on stock engine/trans
@@brycestoll i use to work for a Toyota dealership so i knew about it before the public did, thats why i stated what i stated but i i agree with you would to see one over a 100k with stock internals
Friend of mine (I'm from northern Bavaria, Germany) drives a 420 HP (lol) manual 340i with the B58. Such an awesome motor
I hope the valve cover gaskets are better than every previous BMW motor! I love my Bimmers (E60 530Xi & F32 435i MSport), but leaking VC gaskets at 60-70K miles is just stupid!
As a bmw enthusiast I have to disagree. The M54 is a predecessor and it’s simplified. They didn’t come in a turbo option however the engine is a much more robust option to a modern 2jz. It is open deck and cast aluminum but the b30 (3.0 version) has factory forged rotating assembly, capable of reaching high power goals with an na/t. It’s also easier to find parts for as well as much more aftermarket support.
Pretty sure you guys were calling the N54 the modern 2JZ back just not too long ago. So, what made you change your minds? Is it because the B58 has become the trendy engine to talk about, and you needed views, so you decided to make a video on it? I’m honestly intrigued at what you have to say.
Finally-! A ray of light in the seemingly endless flood of BMW memes . . .
(Which somehow hit hard when you're a convinced BMW driver like me-)
2J lovers: it’s closed deck iron block with forged crank shaft and it’s made by gotta so it’s reliable and….
*m104 enters the chat*
Shhh I'm still getting them for $400
I thought that something about the dodge hurricane was gonna be mentioned