I won a two player (intro) game yesterday through the Fremen's special win condition. Atreides moved a huge force into Tuek's Sietch on the last turn; when we fought, I played a shield and lasgun and blew everyone up. Since I controlled the other sietches I needed, I won!
“Your greatest weakness is poverty” makes me laugh when round 1 spice blows show up within shipment distance and move distance for two groups of Fremen. Sure, I’ll start round 2 with 22 collected spice!
Fremen are so much more fun in advanced. You have more negotiation options (my favorite part of the game) and you can scare off other players from spice and large battles with your superior attrition.
Advanced fremen are…unique. Paradoxically, they’re the poorest faction, but the only thing they need spice for are treachery cards. Once they have their hand set up they don’t truly need it anymore. Their revives are free, their shipping is free, their spice dialing is free. All the spice is good for for them, then, is to deliver bribes. The difficult part of the Fremen is that you have to think differently with them. Movement on the planet matters a lot more to the Fremen, and because they can’t just drop right into a stronghold that isn’t Sietch Tabr, it means that their moves are much more telegraphed, and reinforcements are hard to get into place. Attrition doesn’t matter in terms of reserves, it’s getting those reserves somewhere that matters. So long as you’re not zoned out and you can keep your leaders alive, Fremen are quite strong in Advanced.
They don't have particularly great alliance advantages to bestow on their ally (especially for factions that already have 2 free revival), but I am always keen to have the Fremen as my ally.
I'm one of the players that gives them the storm deck in basic - to me, it makes a lot more sense than the dialing rule that adds a lot of overhead, and gives them a very small buff that is much needed but not significant enough to alter game balance.
Fremen really have everything going against them, so its major bragging rights if someone manages to pull off a win with them; Even more so if it was solo. In a brutal way, its kinda thematic that Fremen are basically hardmode, afterall, "God created Arrakis to train the faithful..."
So I haven't really played this (great) game extensively quite yet but I have to say I disagree. In all the 3 games that I played, the Fremen won twice and were close on the third one. In all instances it felt like nobody could counter them. The fact that they recover so quickly, so fast and can move around easily and cheap makes them able to engage in small kamikaze battles that basically cost them nothing and cost the opponent possibly a lot (and their strong leaders are a great bluff), even with no cards. Contrary to other factions, a defeat in a major battle only has small consequences for them. If anyone knows what the strategy to counter them is, happy to hear it because I still dont see it.
The Fremen are not very capable of pulling a surprise win because their special shipping makes them slower and more predictable. This way if the other players have not overspent troops then there is always someone able to challenge their hopes of winning. Also I find that one or two fremen leaders are often kept as traitor cards because of their high power. Unfortunately because Fremen are usually poor they can't buy good defence cards so their strong leaders often die. Admittedly I've never played the game with spice combat so I think my opinion of them will improve once I try that rule
Perhaps the faction with the most “swing”. A good/lucky fremen with a decent ally is a cinch for the win- but more often than not will struggle to matter.
Another good video. Storm rule, knowing the movement or better yet controlling the storm movement in the last turns of the game has been HUGE in determining the winner of close games.
I like the Atreides-Fremen alliance, as in the book. Atreides doesn't provide money, but they can help you buy just the right card, so money is not so critical anyway. Speaking of that, it's interesting to think about what the alliance situation is at the start of the book. I guess the Emperor and Harkonnen are allied and maybe Atreides + Bene Gesserit (though maybe Leto doesn't know it). The rest are independent I suppose, though later the Fremen ally with Atreides. The Guild are actually an alliance within themselves because they are actually Guild + Smugglers, which is often forgotten.
Hi Jack, there might be an error regarding what you said at 12:22. The Great Houses cannot occupy Tuek's Sietch for the special victory condition, even when allied with the Fremen (page 5 of the 2020 FAQ).
@@jackredathewarp In this video you sa id you can only use fremen special shipment instead of the standard shipment that other factions can use. However in a recent GF9 email, I asked them if I could use the standard shipment instead of the fremen special shipment because the fremen shipment text mentions "may" in it and they said yes, as long as I pay the spacing guild or spice bank for the regular shipment for fremen; is this a incorrect ruling from my GF9 email?
With the Shai-halud ability you can move your forces after a nexus. How does this work with the new 'Great maker' card if the nexus isn't voted for. Do they not get to move? Thank
Imagine the fremen had a thumper token they place in a sand territory and next turn a worm shows up there And if they r in that territory they get to ride the worm when it shows up next round
Hey Jack, a question for you about the Fremen shipment. It came up on our last game we played. The fremen can start in any territory within 2 territories of the great flat. One of those territories is Sietch Tabr. If Sietch Tabr is occupied already by another faction, can the Fremen still start there? There was a lot of debate saying no they couldn't. Ultimately we allowed it, with reluctance from multiple players, and I won the game doing so. Or, how the opposition was saying I should have done it is that I could start outside of Sietch Tabr and used my movement phase to move in. That would not have allowed me the game win in this situation as I used my movement to take Arrakeen. Thanks in advance!
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I won a two player (intro) game yesterday through the Fremen's special win condition. Atreides moved a huge force into Tuek's Sietch on the last turn; when we fought, I played a shield and lasgun and blew everyone up. Since I controlled the other sietches I needed, I won!
“Your greatest weakness is poverty” makes me laugh when round 1 spice blows show up within shipment distance and move distance for two groups of Fremen.
Sure, I’ll start round 2 with 22 collected spice!
Fremen are so much more fun in advanced. You have more negotiation options (my favorite part of the game) and you can scare off other players from spice and large battles with your superior attrition.
Advanced fremen are…unique. Paradoxically, they’re the poorest faction, but the only thing they need spice for are treachery cards. Once they have their hand set up they don’t truly need it anymore. Their revives are free, their shipping is free, their spice dialing is free. All the spice is good for for them, then, is to deliver bribes.
The difficult part of the Fremen is that you have to think differently with them. Movement on the planet matters a lot more to the Fremen, and because they can’t just drop right into a stronghold that isn’t Sietch Tabr, it means that their moves are much more telegraphed, and reinforcements are hard to get into place. Attrition doesn’t matter in terms of reserves, it’s getting those reserves somewhere that matters.
So long as you’re not zoned out and you can keep your leaders alive, Fremen are quite strong in Advanced.
They don't have particularly great alliance advantages to bestow on their ally (especially for factions that already have 2 free revival), but I am always keen to have the Fremen as my ally.
@@jackredathewarp What they can give is cheap and hard to dislodge board presence.
I'm one of the players that gives them the storm deck in basic - to me, it makes a lot more sense than the dialing rule that adds a lot of overhead, and gives them a very small buff that is much needed but not significant enough to alter game balance.
Genuinely the storm deck is just a less awkward way to dial the storm up anyways.
Fremen really have everything going against them, so its major bragging rights if someone manages to pull off a win with them; Even more so if it was solo. In a brutal way, its kinda thematic that Fremen are basically hardmode, afterall, "God created Arrakis to train the faithful..."
Do you think Fremen is hard mode with advanced combat also?
@@lastburning I only play full advanced so that's all I can speak to.
So I haven't really played this (great) game extensively quite yet but I have to say I disagree. In all the 3 games that I played, the Fremen won twice and were close on the third one. In all instances it felt like nobody could counter them. The fact that they recover so quickly, so fast and can move around easily and cheap makes them able to engage in small kamikaze battles that basically cost them nothing and cost the opponent possibly a lot (and their strong leaders are a great bluff), even with no cards.
Contrary to other factions, a defeat in a major battle only has small consequences for them.
If anyone knows what the strategy to counter them is, happy to hear it because I still dont see it.
The Fremen are not very capable of pulling a surprise win because their special shipping makes them slower and more predictable. This way if the other players have not overspent troops then there is always someone able to challenge their hopes of winning. Also I find that one or two fremen leaders are often kept as traitor cards because of their high power. Unfortunately because Fremen are usually poor they can't buy good defence cards so their strong leaders often die.
Admittedly I've never played the game with spice combat so I think my opinion of them will improve once I try that rule
@@jam3syboy Or do what I do and give them 2 times the combat power. It may sound OP but it balances out with their lack of mobility.
Perhaps the faction with the most “swing”. A good/lucky fremen with a decent ally is a cinch for the win- but more often than not will struggle to matter.
Another good video. Storm rule, knowing the movement or better yet controlling the storm movement in the last turns of the game has been HUGE in determining the winner of close games.
As i play the bene G, it behooves me to watch all of these.
I like using the advanced storm deck in standard play. It's more thematic and helps give the fremen a little boost. 😊
I like the Atreides-Fremen alliance, as in the book. Atreides doesn't provide money, but they can help you buy just the right card, so money is not so critical anyway.
Speaking of that, it's interesting to think about what the alliance situation is at the start of the book. I guess the Emperor and Harkonnen are allied and maybe Atreides + Bene Gesserit (though maybe Leto doesn't know it). The rest are independent I suppose, though later the Fremen ally with Atreides. The Guild are actually an alliance within themselves because they are actually Guild + Smugglers, which is often forgotten.
Yeah, I sometimes wonder about a team game where you have alliances from the beginning, mapped out for you. That would be an interesting way to play.
@@jackredathewarp It *would* be a fun experiment!
Hi Jack, there might be an error regarding what you said at 12:22. The Great Houses cannot occupy Tuek's Sietch for the special victory condition, even when allied with the Fremen (page 5 of the 2020 FAQ).
That is not going to be true in the next faq.
@@jackredathewarp Cool, probably makes more sense that way. When does the new FAQ come out?
@@softwasp Not sure, but trying to get the council of naibs to convene.
@@jackredathewarp In this video you sa id you can only use fremen special shipment instead of the standard shipment that other factions can use. However in a recent GF9 email, I asked them if I could use the standard shipment instead of the fremen special shipment because the fremen shipment text mentions "may" in it and they said yes, as long as I pay the spacing guild or spice bank for the regular shipment for fremen; is this a incorrect ruling from my GF9 email?
@@jackredathewarp when will the next faq come out?
With the Shai-halud ability you can move your forces after a nexus.
How does this work with the new 'Great maker' card if the nexus isn't voted for. Do they not get to move?
Thank
Imagine the fremen had a thumper token they place in a sand territory and next turn a worm shows up there And if they r in that territory they get to ride the worm when it shows up next round
Hey Jack, a question for you about the Fremen shipment. It came up on our last game we played. The fremen can start in any territory within 2 territories of the great flat. One of those territories is Sietch Tabr. If Sietch Tabr is occupied already by another faction, can the Fremen still start there? There was a lot of debate saying no they couldn't. Ultimately we allowed it, with reluctance from multiple players, and I won the game doing so.
Or, how the opposition was saying I should have done it is that I could start outside of Sietch Tabr and used my movement phase to move in. That would not have allowed me the game win in this situation as I used my movement to take Arrakeen.
Thanks in advance!
As long as there aren't already two other faction in Tabr, you can absolutely ship right into it.
I cant find a ruling anywhere on this but someone on youtube mentioned this:
Can harkkonen take bribes to return captured leaders?
Not per se. They can agree to use the leader in a v
Battle, and if it’s a thrown fight, the leader survives.
@@jackredathewarp thanks so much!
@jackredathewarp What do you think about using all of the advanced rules, but not the spice dialing for forces? How do you think it affects the game?
It does not really work well.
The spice blows are doubled in advanced but then nothing is actually draining that spice, so everyone becomes really rich. Not a good idea