Inline 3D Printing Filament Dryer | Does It Work?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มี.ค. 2020
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In this video we take a look at the Thordsen 3D Filament Dryer system. This is a long overdue video. This device is supposed to be able to dry wet filament while your printer is printing. This would save you from having to bake out an entire spool for hours. I had seen other results on similar machine such as the review Chris Riley did on the Filadry here:
• Filadry - The Filament...
However, I wanted to test this out for myself. Tune in to see what my experience was like.
Manufacturer's website:
thordsen3d.com/
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Pro Tip; even most engineers dont know this. It (mostly) explains the wide variance in observations experienced in this group.
Entrapped moisture is critical; example is COB to flex circuits at 160C , 2sec attach temps.. Extensive DOEs have shown two distinct levels of residual mousture; surface and internal. Generally, the surface will absorb and release moisture at a significantly faster rate than the core of the material. For a 20mil
Polimide flex board, a 16hrs min bake at 125C should release most of the core moisture . Store in dry nitrogen. Upon use, just a 2hr bake at 125c will release most of the inevitable surface moisture from being loaded onto pick and place machines. Flex suppliers often specify a vacuum oven for this. Personally, my data shows this as over cautionary.Root Cause functions are material type, thickness, and previous storage. We live on a very Wet World; this topic needs diligent science. Cheers.
I think you have the point, this filament "dryer" from what I understand should be used on hydroscopic materials after they have been dried (inner moisture), to control surface moisture during printing. Basically meaning it wont solve improper storage issues. I use it on nylons etc, that have been prepared before printing to be dry, and allow this to clear the surface moisture (well one like it - homebaked).
This device is all wrong. Just because it’s hot doesn’t mean it’s drying. There is nothing to pull the moisture out. A dehydrator uses moving hot air and pulls the moisture away from the filament.
Right! No moving air, not enough air volume around the filament to evaporate the moisture into, not enough time...the list goes on.
secretagb very correct. Humidity in air is the air being saturated with water. When air is over saturated condensation begins. Take a humid place like Florida. It can be very hot and humid. It the moisture has no where to go it will remain hot and humid. If anything over time this device would make things worse.
@@MrSand6532 Maybe it should be labeled as a moisture redistribution device as it may just create a moisture cloud inside the PTFE tube for dry filament to pick up.
Thank you all for the incredible amount of feedback. I love seeing responses and engagement. I hope everyone is staying safe and healthy. Thank you all for tuning in
I think they may have put your heatsinks backward inside your unit, I think the vented heatsink is supposed to be on the hot-end, not the cold end. (the 2 slots cut in the heatsink), went and checked their site, made no sense to me to have the slots on the cold end.
Well, on that note... a string test would have been nice. Maybe a heat tower with overhang? Or how about Makers Muse torture cube? What about tolerance test?
It would be nice if you added one more test with the same setting and filament dry in the oven as usual and compare the three
It seems there is quite a bit of interest in this so I may end up revisiting it.
ModBot if the oven make it better then that confirm that inline dryer is for sure not good but if the oven did not improve the print then it’s not a good test and need to be done on maybe a nylon which is very sensitive to that
I would also make prints wich use stringing.
@@ModBotArmy please do so
Thank you for the honest review.
I bet if Joel the 3d printing nerd did a review he would reccomend everyone buy as many as you can.
I have one of these as well. Best thing I ever bought,never had to dry my filament again.
Hi Modbot. Thank you for doing a review. I'm sorry that your conclusions were not favorable in your video. However, I don't feel that you have given the IFD a thorough enough test or provided an explanation of how the IFD works. I'm also disappointed that you did not notify me that you were releasing the video so that I could have an opportunity to respond to the comments with further details and answer questions. Some of the comments are downright hateful and their conclusions are based on assumptions instead of facts not presented in your video. For what it's worth, the IFD is not a gimmick or a sham like the FilaDry. We came up with the concept to solve our own moisture problems in our production ASA printing and have been drying filament successfully for almost two years. Our scrap rate due to moisture has dropped by 90%. It works so well that I decided to turn into a product. We have sold several hundred and not a single one has been returned. As a matter of fact, many customers have written or called and given positive feedback. Those customers who have had issues and contacted us get it resolved quickly. All that aside, your review and the comments encourage me to make the IFD better so TC3D can earn your approval. Please email me through the website to discuss if you like. Alan Thordsen
Yeah, commenting here to help get this comment noticed. I don't know if this product works, and don't understand what the rationale is for the heatsink fins before and after the heatblock, which makes me skeptical. However, if indeed there are holes in the tubing for the vapor to escape, then all the commenters dismissing the product as unable to work because it traps the vapor are just factually wrong. And I don't think Modbot's test made much sense, as he doesn't have definitely bad and definitely good prints for comparison.
@@Graham_Wideman Thank you for comment. As promised in my previous comment, the new design is coming soon and will include an integrated shut off timer.
Watching this to see what kind of drying ideas there are out there. I’m glad you opened this because I was about to search the Internet to see what inside of it, where is the moisture to go when the entire unit is sealed through the Bowden tube and the heat and elements. This is not how you properly dry filament. I’m playing around with one of those $50 filament dryers from Amazon, what I’m noticing helps is I put a three-quarter inch hole on the top and have a 3-D printed valve mechanism to close it slightly. This allows the moisture to escape
snake oil I'm afraid. just a waste of cash but thanks for taking one for the team.
Have you tried weedeater/weed wacker string? That's usually what I use for nylon. From day 1 it's in the open absorbing mosture. It also pops like crazy when not dried.
Kinda surprised there wasn't any worst case stringing test prints to compare the results. If I had good quality prints with little stringing like the ones you made with wet filament, I wouldn't really have bothered drying it :p
Yes I agree. Comparing this a oven dried filament would be great. If just to compare it to filament that has not been fried. Also, I wonder what the tensile strength between the one oven dried vs the one with moisture vs the one using the inline dryer.
They both look the same to me. Great video thanks.
I agree. Thank you for watching!
It would be interesting to see it as an experiment .... but not as an actual product.
I think a longer heatsection (that block is really small) and a way for the hot air to escape after drying would be essential. (You could try to implement those)
But be careful, that the insides of your box don't get to hot as well.
But even with a longer heatsection and an outlet for the hot air, i expect the time to be insufficent for proper dehydration.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to try this out on behalf of everyone! However, is it possible for you to try this with some filament that actually has defects she printing. In the video, your prints before using the machine, didn't really look like they had any problems printing to be honest (kudos to you lol). Hence it seems pretty difficult to conclude if the machine actually helped at all. For example, I have filament that has enough moisture that its too brittle to even print for 15 mins straight!
The device is supposed to dry your filament, and that may result in better prints, but not necessarily. If a filament, which has been exposed to moisture and pop like crazy while printing, prints quietly when being run through the dryer, it would have achieved its purpose.
Oh wow I just thought of an experiment. 2 sealed containers, both with hydro meters inside. Pull it from one box through the drier, into the other box and respool it in there. Obviously before and after you should wait for the hydro meters to acclimatize to get a good reading.
Thank you sir you just saved me some money
Happy to help!
I own one of these, the version with the external heater. There are holes on the heatsink past the heater block for moisture to evaporate. It does not create retraction issues as the filament passes through smoothly. I would also think since you are only heating up 1.75mm, you don't need 4hr dry time as with an entire spool.
Tested on PLA that had moisture and did notice a difference, almost no more pockmarks. Testing on NylonX currently, that will be the real test
Did it work with Nylon?
@@BradKwfc Not really, definitely have to dry Nylon out first.
@@mikeb1596 Cool thanks.
When you opened the filament dryer I couldn't see any were for the water to actually escape. Also in my experience of drying things you need to give stuff time to dry and it doesn't look like that machine gives the filament much time to dry. If I designed a filament dryer I would probably do it in a similar way but have a much longer aluminum block with a brass threaded channel that has a few holes drilled through it so moisture can escape.
Great video, i have found another way how to dry filament. :) I have noticed that you have Artillery Genius, which i have too, but im struggling with printing PETG for a while of testing. Is your profile or settings for printing PETG somewhere available? I would like to have some good start point to play with slicer settings. Thank you!
Only difference I see is the dry print is a little more translucent.
What about stringing tests? That’s what I notice the most when it comes to moisture issues.
Hey Mod Bot, Another informative video!!👍🏽 Plz review the Anycubic 4max pro fully enclosed 3d printer, it is regularly on sale for 299$ usd and has a filter, a large build volume (205, 270, 205mm), ultrabase heat bed, direct drive extruder combo, and the various software features, like filament runout detection, power loss resume, and power off when finished with print
I would love to review that machine. I had my eyes on the original 4max and wanted to review it badly. I actually reached out to Anycubic for that machine but they were not looking for reviewers. Perhaps in the future.
I 3D print since 2014 and, despite my massive filament consumption, I have still spools of filament laying on the shelf since these early days. It's entry level filament, and the leftover is mostly not enought to print anything serious. Sometimes I need a tiny part and I use the leftovers, on the printer or in the 3D pen. I never noticed any moisture problem on PLA or PETG. But Nylon and ABS can shows popping issues during the print and a fuzzy surface on the print. I believe your instant dryer is not capable of removing the moisture as quick as expected. You need to low temp bake you filament for hours to have a noticeable result. Regards.
I have had PLA out in the open for years and have noticed little of any issues with moisture. Nylon and occasionally PETG are the two I have had show some signs of negative quality due to moisture absorption.
Where would the moisture be going if its inside a tube?
Having worked in the plastic injection molding business for a number of years I think I can shed a light on what should be dried and what doesn't need it. Polypropylene, polyethylene, and similar plastics don't need to be dried. These plastics are what milk jugs and plastic bottles are made of. Nylon, abs, polycarbonate, styrene and similar hard plastics need at least 1 hour of dry time. They will suck up moisture like a wick. This causes brittleness and lamination. That little machine is just a waste of money in my opinion. Hope this helps explain the problems some of you are experiencing. Also soft rubber like plastic doesn't need to dry.
Another test would be to dry some filiment in a dehydrator and compare.
I think it would need a longer path to cook the moisture out.
what if you made something like this DIY that could actually work. get a cheap 12v ceramic heater, get a long ptfe or something tube, cut lots of small holes along the whole tube, then put it all in a small enclose and add a mini fan to the top. my theory is that the long tube will give the filament plenty of time and surface area to stay in the heated zone while keeping the enclosure relativly small and using a small enclosure means its easier to heat up a small volume and the cuts in the tube will allow the moisture to go out of the tube into the air in the enclosure and the fan will extract the humid air out.
Yes ... I have one. Later. PETG makes a difference...
4:30 Why does it have heat sinks (fins) before and after the heater block? If the objective is to heat the filament to some modest temperature (say 50 to90C) for long enough to evaporate some water (which I guess exits through some openings in the tube/heatsinks) why do you need cooling? The net result of the fins would seem to me to cause a shorter heated region, and significantly heat up the inside of the equipment case.
For a proper comparison you should have dried the filament the traditional way after and redo the print. That way you know how it should look like if it worked.
i think it depends on the brand of filament. I have a tpu filament that does not care of moisture and i have a nylon filament that realy needs drying before use
I agree some filaments from various brands seem to absorb more than others. The PETG I know had moisture in it but still did not see any difference in the results.
So, was there any humidity issues in any of the prints at all? Without this and info about it, the test really doesn't say much.
The heater block looks solid, and the case closed, can the heated humidity get vented and escape the filament?
Lot's of expected info missing in the video IMO
Did you try to print after cooking the spool in the oven to compare with these results? If the oven method is the same like the others, this method won't be enough say something about the methods.
When you bake filament to dry it out, don't you have to do it for an hour or so? Seems like this wouldn't expose the filament to the low heat long enough to truly dry it out, plus there's nowhere for the moisture to go since internally it's just a hotend and a couple heatsinks.
This is the conventional way of doing it with an active heater that has proven to work. If the device in this video had worked, it would have saved time by not having to bake out the entire roll and just being able to run a wet spool directly into the printer.
There's holes in the heatsink right after the heater block. I had PLA with moisture that it helped
If there are no holes In or very near the heater Block in that Dryer - the moisture has no way to escape from the filament - since the filament passes straigth into a bowden tube
I agree here, the moisture does not come out instantly either so should go around an internal exposed track before going into the bowden tube. Would be better if there was no bowden tube to the printer.
That makes sense. Seems to be a general rule that the moisture would need an outlet to escape.
But there are holes in output heatsink, lot at video around 4:44. Look at thingiverse 3669673 . ... i want to believe :D
Probably removes surface moisture, but it will not remove core moisture.
So many folks say moisture has a large impact. Could they be mistaken? If not, this test would have been useful had it started with a case where there was a significant difference.
I side with Nike Sanders. There's no evacuation for the moisture once it's evaporated. Further, I'm not convinced that the heater provides enough time for deeply-absorbed moisture to evaporate out of the material.
One test I would devise is to take moisture-ridden filament, cut it in half, and push/pull one section through this machine at a feed rate that a 3D printer would typically use. Then weigh both sections and see if there is any tangible difference. I would probably run 5 or 10 samples, just to make sure there's no statistical hilarity messing up one or two samples.
A possible alternative design would be to blow air through a resistive wire-heater block and onto the filament. That ensure's a constant heat with the added benefit of evacuating moisture.
I feel like it would need to have a longer heating element so the filament stays in the chamber longer.
Products like this prey on the fact most users don't understand plastics or how filament is made, or how slowly plastics absorb and release moisture.
A lot of filaments are manufactured by running the extruded material through water tanks several meters long to cool them before blowing it dry and winding it. If passing filament through a 15mm warm zone did anything it would be overwhelmed by the moisture absorbed from the cooling process. This might evaporate material on the very surface such as condensate, but the plastic can have moisture in its core that's not coming out so easily.
Para um material já seco é bom, tira umidade superficial, mas pare um filamento bem úmido de nada adianta...
Did you ever get a chance to do further tests on this? Your print speed was so low that I suspect the actual printer's hotend was giving the moisture plenty time to boil out and for bubbles to escape and close up before being extruded. I'm not convinced this dryer does anything but I'd like to see a better look to figure out if the basic idea is potentially salvagable. I've been thinking of a device like this not with a tube and heater enclosing the filament, rather a system of pulleys back and forth across a box exposing the filament to moving hot dry air.
Check out this video. th-cam.com/video/UzTc2vG0NNw/w-d-xo.html
On a side note for video production quality, you should stay away from using red, white, and black, as they do not film well. If you want to show every harsh detail, gray or beige are usually the best. I do concur with others that you need a wet, treated, and dried sample print to fully demonstrate the point.
Yes, I am afraid this is a complete marketing gimmick. Moisture removal is time dependant. Moisture can be removed faster but the only way possible is to increase temperature/airflow/pressure. Any way at all of trying to increase the rate of drying also increases the change of the polymer properties. There is no fast way of doing it without changing the polymer properties. Nylon is very hygroscopic and takes roughly 5 days at a low temperature to dry (correctly) without ruining it. Brilliant videos though. The topics being talked about open up great ideas to be further explored! Thanks! By the way are those repurposed e3d cooling fins in that machine? 😅
Of course moisture can escape, look inside at that holes in output heatsink. Plese test benchy and retraction test on thingiverse 909901.
I don’t understand why your filament is wet. If you got it from the spool, how did they get wet
Your printer is very slow is that a factor? Also both of your calibration prints look bad so how would you really know? You would need to test with a much higher quality tune to begin with.
On my printer I only notice changes when I have my tune really good.
I see no difference either. Maybe on the nylon filament? It has to be good for something or it's just another expensive brick. Which you the best of health during the beer virus situation we are all having @Daniel . Take cared of your self.
Thank you. Scary times. I hope that you are staying safe and healthy.
Maybe device blowing warm air on the filament would work better.
I don't think there is a magic bullet, look at the filadry reviewed by Chris' Basement. Same problem with that one, not long enough exposure, plus problems with PLA =/
it does heat .but there's no vent for it to disperse moisture
thats why it sucks
Could you print a benchy I would be very interested to see if it helps in overhangs
Love from Israel!
Love from California!
Uhhhhh yeah... I really don't see how moisture could migrate out of filament in the time it passes through a small machine while printing. It takes time, like long hours of time and even then I don't think you get it all unless you do it repeatedly or outright keep your spools warm at least semi-permanently. I use my food dehydrator and hit em for about 8 hours at 155F before I print if I think I'm going to have a problem.
Anyway, if you want a good test, then you need to grab a spool that does some good snap crackle pop shit during printing, then try it again through that machine.
Snap crackle pop shit🤣
@@FuriousImp I don't make the news, I just report it. ;-)
looks so odd seeing glue being used on the Artillery bed... also never had stick or release issues so far.... i wonder if this is someone solving a problem that never existed or could have been solved with a different bed heat setting.... unless its filament type related
Did you try nylon?
You will see difference only for more difficult materials such as TPU or for long PLA prints... Otherwise it doesn't worth the investment
Test it with nylon filament
Single most annoying thing about my experience with 3D printing is the ridiculous amount of moisture in vacuum sealed packaging even if the batch is listed as being packaged as a new batch.
Hearing the crackle of water molecules pop is annoying but for the most part the prints come out looking good. Still feels shitty that the new batch isn't new, if it's a new batche and is sealed and sold for a huge markup and they couldn't even bother to dry it before packaging or making sure the packaging itself mitigates the amount of moisture.
Feels like anti-consumer and unethical business practices
there's no way the filament has enough time to loose humidity
The only thing it definitely loses is shape and dimensional accuracy. I am ashamed, that I am subscribed to someone who has to test such a machine, to determine whether it works or not.
@@YoungGunner360 I got my food dehydrator for 30au dollars from aldi. I find 2-3hrs at 55c is all I need to make my TPU and PETG print sting free.
@@YoungGunner360
You printed things where almost no retraction (stringing) was required. a Better test would be nice.
haha, yeah no way this thing could possibly dry filament that quickly. Typically we dry filament in a dehydrator for 4hrs+, no way could this suddenly dry it as it just passes through quickly.
Well... that's because it's all bunched together on a spool... is the theory
@@FuriousImp there's a lot more at play than it just being bunched together. The ability to fully heat the material takes time. As it also takes time for the moisture to migrate out of the material. If it were to instantly be heated enough for the moisture to instantly be pushed out, it would Form bubbles in the materials. That's what we see at the nozzle end.. It must be a slow process to allow removal without damage and to fully permeate and evacuate moisture.
@@secretagb Thanks
theres not enough time spent in the heater to do anything, and really no where for the moisture to escape to.
please do a benchy with oven baked, inline baked and wet. and please use a solid color of filament instead of translucent.
I may end up revisiting this to compare the three with a spool that has been soaked.
The 2nd heat sink has hole where moisture is supposed to escape
I am not sure if you are aware but Sunlu is not delivering
on their kickstarter promise, they have taken our money and are coming
up with excuses why they will not ship the item. In addition they have
been selling this item direct without fulfilling kickstarter orders.
What can you do do influence this situation as there are over 2500
backers that are being cheated?
That's scandalous. Not going to buy any filament/ products from them :)
it's just a filament warmer. there's nowhere for the moisture to go in that closed system. you're much better off just putting spools in a 5 gallon bucket and throwing in some dessicant.
There's no way this can possibly work. It can take days to dry filament in a heated drying chamber to where it is printable. There's nowhere for the moisture to go.
There's nowhere for the moisture to go, it's just heating it up after seeing the inside shots. Seems to me like someone is trying to make money from bad design.
Also those cables near the heater cartridge look uncomfortably close, not even zip tied down to ensure there's no contact and fire.
The 2nd heat sink has hole where moisture is supposed to escape
Just by looking at how it's built you can tell straight away it's not going to work. Total scam.
To make this test relevant you need to provide the ambient relative humidity and ambient temperature otherwise any comparisons are meaningless !
of course that doesnt work. the inner moisture of the filament needs _time_ to find its way out.
Its like photons produced in the suns core... they need about 10,000 to 170,000 years to reach the surface. same the the water molecules in the filament ;-)
What is the climate where you are located? Humid? Dry? I see no evidence of moisture in the prints done with your wet filament. Did it crackle and pop while printing. The real test would be taking a roll of filament that was showing evidence of of moisture and then running it through the drier.
You can't fix it if it ain't broke!
I am located in California which is not a humid state. However, I am near the ocean and my apartment is very humid. We empty a massive dehumidifier at least twice a day. I did hear crackling previously with the filament. I would anticipate the results would be more extreme in a more humid environment.
@@ModBotArmy I don't remember you saying what type of filament you were using. If your filament is really wet you won't get a clean print. Layer adhesion should be a major problem. I'd like to see this unit tackle some filament that is having problems printing because of moisture. Your sample is starting off pretty dry. It seems that it may be a little clearer after drying. Maybe the drier had an effect on what little moisture the filament contained. If the drier can take really wet material and spit it out as clean as yours is starting out, I'd call it a success. Your test didn't really tell us anything.
you choose very wrong objects for testing to be honest. these models would never cause strings etc. I wouldve gonne with more curvy like models.
It does not work because drying does not work this way!
It's a scam
Who cares about what it looks like, what matters is how strong it is.