I dont know for sure but im guessing that only the big names break even or make alittle money. If you want to play it safe id do live on line concerts ? BTW i think you are extremely talented why you havent made it big yet is the whole music scene is in the crapper. Its not that you are doing anything wrong IMO.
@@MarySpender This is a great course. Imagine it like this “Mary, tell me about your tour because I am curious or maybe thinking of doing it myself. Let’s have coffee.“ Mary: “I’ll tell you all I’ve learned. I want you to know what it’s really like.” It’s what we’ve come to expect from Mary Spender: Realistic, heartfelt, clear.
Thank you. At the very least, fans should understand that they have to pay the artists, and that means not stealing music and paying appropriate ticket fees. And where possible, government needs to intervene, if only to just make international touring simpler.
Back when I was in college I was in several bands, they were all in the punk genre. One of the groups decided we wanted to do a tour over just playing local shows once a month or so. We booked 4 venues in several states, we lived in the Midwest of the U.S, over 5 days. Fortunately, the venues that we played were small, either dedicated underground live venues with a couple of bars that had a low overhead cost to rent out. One of the bars gave us a deal where they hooked us up with a percentage of alcohol sales, I think we made like 15 bucks off that. We ended up playing 5 extra shows that we got haphazardly plugged into after people saw us at a previous show and got us to make an extra trip after the original "tour" ended. We slept in a 1986 Dodge van that we pulled a trailer behind, 2 of the 15 nights we were out we were gifted someone's floor, which was awesome. For a group of late teen to early 20 year old punk dudes in the early 2000's it was a miserably great experience of sore backs and legs, sleep deprivation, and gut rot after living off booze/coke and gas station burritos, four dudes in a van was rough. I think we lost around $800 doing the tour. That was my first, and last tour.
we went on tour with my 3 piece punk band in 2017. 20 gigs in 27 days, sold out 16 of them and the other 4 were pretty bouncing, the three of us slept in my van every night (we had a small trailer for gear) we survived on a diet of lidl bread and peanut butter (and beer) The tour was fantastic and went as well as i could ever dream it woudl, sold a good amount of merch.... if i remember right we made about £200 guid each after all of it.... GREAT SUCCESS
I go to as many underground gigs as I can afford. This is life. I see my friends losing money after grafting. It's insane. People wonder why so many musicians are super-thin.
@@tdtm82 I often daydream of one day opening a small cafe/lounge for live indie performances, but I always get told by those who know more than me that the nick name for cafe/live music lounges is "marriage breaker" or "family destroyer"!! Sigh.
This kind of transparency is so helpful for re-drawing public ignorance about the "lavish rock star life" it's assumed is lived by anyone with a public presence. THANK YOU.
Love the "Sleep in the Van" song. And, as for actually sleeping in the van... sod that! Touring is stressful enough and you absolutely need a sound base to chill and relax and prepare for the next day.
As a music lover and regular attendee of live music this is very enlightening. We always buy merch to support the bands we see but really had no idea on how tight a budget is for a band. Thanks as usual for sharing this behind the scenes economics on what it takes to put out great live music. I’m even now more appreciative of those that do this for a living to provide entertainment and inspiration to us music lovers.
You wrote, produced and toured in support of your album, for me that’s unequivocal success regardless of the numbers to the millions like me at home with a guitar and notepad. Well done and as always your honesty and candor much appreciated 🙏
To me, that's a financially unwise decision. Most people don't view losing money in an ill-advised venture as "unequivocal success." It's an "unequivocal failure" actually. The mental gymnastics you have to use to convince yourself that this is somehow successful must be elaborate!
you are one artist that I could get behind more due to your candor and honesty, LOVE how you break things down and If I was a travelling artist you would be my first stop Head up shoulders back and chest forward... march.... my grandfathers favourite saying, "You're not failing, you're just learning how not to do it!"
Good job communicating the effort and the costs. As someone who has produced several tours, I would encourage anyone considering touring to get your course. I have no doubt it will be very helpful, prevent costly mistakes, and save time and money.
Congrats on your tour and thank you so much for sharing this info!! A better educated audience and bands raises the sea level for all and I hope the good karma you’ve built doing this pays off for you in amazing ways 🙌🏼
5 musician Band: 2500/ musicians = 12.500 2500 / other members(Manager, Driver, Mixer) 7.500 20.000/ month has to be made after all expenses. If the members have family. Thats why most musicians stay at Hobby Level. Me too.
I am genuinely shocked by how low your merchandise sales are. Back in my touring days, those were always what made the touring viable. For the rest, it's crazy how nothing has changed in the last decade since I quit. More power to you for still trying to make it work.
I’m not, I saw shed seven in a pack Oxford academy and hardly anyone buying merch. I mean £25 for tee is a lot but I always get one for the kids to support the band but I guess at the moment it’s a stretch for some
@@willgoodchild4343 my shock wasn't implying she was lying or anything, rather that yeah, we live in such dire times that the very idea of buying merch is really on the table anymore. And that sucks for everyone involved.
merch sales *wildly* vary from genre to genre. Metal audiences easily spent ten times as much on merch as a lot others, resulting in all touring metal bands that I know making far more on the merch table than on the door.
Thank you for this illuminating video. It sounds like you planned and ran the tour as efficiently as possible. As for the hotel, I would much rather listen to a band that is well rested and fed. Don't sleep in the van. This is a challenging time in the UK so people likely are less willing to part with their money but quality always wins out and you are absolutely fabulous.
I'm glad that I was able to come and see you in Bristol, and I am sorry that it didn't end up being a financial success. I hope that you have a lovely Christmas, and that your New Year is your best one ever, Mary!
First heard you on TH-cam with Toni and Rena. Live in Colorado Springs Colorado. Love to see you if you come to ‘merika, don’t blame you if you don’t, we are weird now and getting weirder. Will continue to support you on TH-cam.
You are rightly proud of the album and wanted to play it live, but the first set was the highlight of the night for me - don't underestimate the attraction of just you and your guitar; it wasn't the band who sold the tickets and, WHEN you do your solo outing, I'll be first in line (again).
@MrMistoffelees I'm in the USA and haven't seen Mary live, but had a similar experience the first time I saw Willy Porter about 25 years ago. His first set was just him, and his second set was with his band. Not taking anything away from the band at all...but I was focused on Willy and his multi-capos & weird tunings, so I didn't really have much bandwidth left for the band.
Wow, thanks for sharing all these details! I think fans may know many of these costs individually but don't really tabulate them en mass. I think you did do a really great job planning and executing - off the top of my head the VAT and ticket sales percentage were the drivers into negative territory; you did all you could for the ticket sales and I can see that VAT being a surprise unless you've lived it or know from another person. Loved Sleep In the Van! A band called The Warning has a song about the love/hate feelings of touring called Hell You Call A Dream, I think you can relate!
I am watching this video with the most awe and respect possible. It's so so wonderful that you went for it and have the vulnerability to show what it's really been like. I will keep your course in mind for when I start planning my own tour. Keep it up. You're amazing.
You are one special lady Mary. Hopefully the memories you've acquired from this experience will put conciliation and balance towards your financial losses. I absolutely loved the "Sleep in the Van" tune, since I've had to do that more times than I care to remember. Rock on sweet lady, your next tour will be great and profitable. Love, from the USA!
I've never toured, but I've traveled long-distance every summer for years. I absolutely agree about not sleeping in the van. This is an object lesson in the risks of being an independent musician. And you might still fail to make any money on the tour. Music is a niche business, and increasingly, actual, live music is at risk from multiple sources, including AI, TH-cam (Ironic, eh?) and others. Even if I were 50 years younger, I'd never try it as a way to support myself. The business can be - and often is - absolutely heartless. You have my sympathy and appreciation.
I mean: cross out the "independent". Even a lot of signed bands basically have the exact same experience as Mary, only that they have bookers and promoters who did a lot of the work Mary did herself (and take a cut from the increbidly small pie for it).
Back in the dark ages, the early mid 70s, I toured Ontario. Since most of our gigs were 6 nighters, we slept in whatever places the clubs had. But on the nights we travelled, we slept in the van. With all the gear. PA, lighting, amps, keyboards, etc. On one trip from Kapaskasing in the dead of winter, it's was minus 40 outside. We were in the back of the van, on top of the PA speakers. It was so could that beer bottles were freezing and popping. So for those who say "sleep in the can". Go to hell! Try it!
@jeremythornton433 Indeed...it's pretty miserable! I'm from that era and was in Ontario for 2 weeks back then. I also remember a pretty thick layer of ice on the inside of the windows. Being from Tennessee I'd never seen that, or a car driving on the ice on a lake before.
"I get knocked down, but i get up again ..." has taken on a new meaning now I take it. I wonder if hiring a proper tour bus with sleeping compartments might make a difference. That would combine the van rental, car rental, lodging, and fuel costs ($6274), plus the added room would allow for you to bring along more food and snacks to cut down on the food costs at the gas stations and might allow for additional equipment (a backup PA system would have saved the rental). You did not mention the projected income from the TH-cam channel episodes that went along with the tour. I wish you weren't across the pond ... i would have loved to see you live!!!
No. It's about £2k a day for a tourbus in the UK. The big problem is that you need to pay the company for the driver too. Vans and cars can be driven by those already paid to be on the tour, in the UK it's normally an hour or two max drive to the next venue.
Mary, hopefully Rick B will get to see this and comment on your experience and losses. I did enjoy your videos and I will continue to watch and enjoy you. Happy new year.
@hanko219 yes I hope Rick B does do a deep dive into Mary's tour. Also hoping Mary will do a solo USA tour, although that's a "separate-but-equal" kind of hell compared to a UK tour. She could definitely sell out the City Wineries in Atlanta and Nashville...which are about the only venues in those cities that pay.
My friends quit after 18 years as a band this year. On Saturday I went to a small venue in London to see a band from Spain and a bunch of punk-rockers play. It was four bands. There was barely any punters ontop of the bands. It is a HUGE worry for bands. Promoting a tour is SUPER hard when people don't go out because they do big tours (lots of those happening) and are waiting patiently for the NEXT trend when they can just go to a small venue and see a hard-grafting band. Bands are struggling to grow. The economy isn't working for bands. It's so expensive to record with electricity costs and equipment costs and then when you want to tour the modern hotel costs are just insane. You have to budget and be as self-sufficient as possible and then it is a nightmare to just break-even. I have absolutely no idea how bands continue to play. It's really hard. For Bristol next year use Thekla. It's a boat. It's ridiculously cool.
@Truthinshredding1 How is it the worst? I don't live in Bristol but I go to loads of gigs. I used to work in the shipping industry so it's great seeing vessels used for something other than scrap.
@@CraigCholar It means there were very few people paying to get in, and the majority of the audience was made up of the other musicians playing on the night and their entourages.
It's unbelievable. I have much less followers (45k) than you and also did an album and 2 Gigs. Lost more than you though... but I cherish the experience. Will not do it again anytime soon. Glad for everybody that did show up - THANK YOU. It is unbelievable that with your following, you were not in the green.
cost of living crisis possibly has doubled expenses 😳 i saw dweezle zappa has been going through the same thing 😕 its a long way to the top.. if you want to country and western ☝️🔭🙄
BTW, loved the Bristol show. And having the band with you absolutely brought the album to life on the stage. Two of your expensive items, yes, but both totally worth it. 🙂
Thanks for being so honest! I loved your tour vlog series (and was also one of those who somehow missed you being so close at the Portland Arms.) Good luck for future, I'll definitely keep more of a look out in future.
Merry Christmas Mary!!! All the best for 2025. This is the year you blow up. i have every era of music under my belt, from the 50's on up, and I can say without fail, your album is excellent. Original, inspired, and has heart. Fine dining among a sea of fast food. Onward and upward.
The death of revenue streams for most artists concerns me greatly. Being in western Canada I'm too far away to contribute by attending, but I did buy your picking course. And although you didn't benefit from it directly, I bought the reddish telecaster you had in one of your videos. If I had a turntable I would buy the vinyl. I'm a fan of your transparency. Thanks for these videos.
Amo tu honestidad y tu explicación. Un video super útil para los músicos que aspiran a salir de tour. La próxima será mejor. Ya eres una ganadora al por haber salido y planeado todo por ti misma.
Love your channel Mary. Your candor is truly appreciated. Sorry that things didn't quite go as expected. It sounds like moving forward you will learn from your mistakes as well as opening a school for tourng musicians. Well done! 👍
I was at your Cambridge gig, thought the band was awesome ... hope you manage to find a way to get them out on the road again! I was at another gig at the same venue a couple of weeks later ... the band went heavy on Facebook promotion and managed to fill the venue with a higher ticket price. I chatted to few people at the gig, no one had heard of the band before but the fb ads were so good they decided to check them out....
It's a tough pill for her to swallow, but I think your comment is onto something. Her identity on TH-cam is mostly a musician talking about being a musician. I bet if she went on tour just herself, as she mentioned, and did a "Mary Spender Plays and Talks Music" she could charge higher prices and get both music fans and musicians who want to go hang out together.
I remember having a 10 minute conversation with Annie Clark (St Vincent) circa her debut 2007 after a show in New Orleans on her first tour. (I went in cold- My connection was Polyphonic Spree and Sufjan Stevens). I was gobsmacked at her performance, artsy/edgy lyrics and songwriting - guitar histrionics. I thought that Annie had such a persona, that she would go far and told her as such. She expressed sleeping in the van on amplifiers and felt guilty she wasn’t slepping the gear right at that moment with the guys. She was very excited when she saw my newly purchased merch table vinyl under her arms and insisted on signing it. Really down to earth back then - now she dons some Bowie like personas and plays large clubs and festivals Keep at it but don’t quit your cool day job of social content (speaking of just me, I could listen to your voice, poise and content for hours on end). Hone your songwriting and keep your optimism. Play for the joy of it and remember like an evangelist for Jesus, you never know what seeds you have planted My son would play for tip money all over town in rock / soul / funk bands doing original music. He now teaches classical music to middle school kids in Berlin
Let's get you in the black Mary. I will buy a touring course, although I would never think about touring unless I had label support. And if I do I will use backing tracks.
Hi Mary, I wish I could have seen you "live".... For my husband and I, it is about a 10 hour flight just to get to the UK. As far as "sleeping in the van"... OMG! 😒 While I was in the Army, I slept for nearly THREE WEEKS, together with another girl and three guys, on, in, around, or by "Cyclops" as we affectionately called the truck (as it had a broken headlight) which we were assigned to. NO... I longed for my little bed in the barracks, and a HOT SHOWER and even a real TOILET. Staying in a hotel was definitely the right move. ☺
I've been waiting for this video since the last tour vlog. Thanks for a look behind the curtain. Will you be doing a follow-up video on your Heartbreaker guitar?
Thank You, Mary! Even though I am not a performer I found this video very informative about the music industry and really having a good budget plan in place to take on such an endeavor
It might help if an enterprising person set up a network of small venues with a small integral dormitory for bands to sleep/shower. They'd get a lot of bookings.
If I sent my staff on a business trip and told them to stay in the van, social media would go crazy about how bad a boss I am. But if you’re a musician it’s not only encouraged but expected. Music is still a business and people shouldn’t be embarrassed about trying to make a profit.
Too bad. Please do not despair. It is worth performing for people who love your music. The money invested in your concerts will certainly pay off one day. All the best!
Your analysis seems thorough and clear-eyed. You might simply decide to think about your adventure as having "paid some dues." If the road calls you again, I hope you go at with gusto.
Great video! So glad that you enjoyed the tour experience and that you were brave enough to post this video about the cost! I totally agree that some lessons can only be learned by doing it. Hopefully you’ll do a second album and a second tour. Have you explored the idea of a pay-per-view for those of us who can’t make the live shows?
being both the talent AND the showrunner for a whole tour (plus with session musicians) is brutal. I imagine it's the only option to book a whole tour for many artists nowadays but daaamn.
I appreciate your openness. Thanks. The thought of touring these days is really scary. But it looks like you probably have it all figured out. Solo tour, work taxes into ticket sales, smaller venues, and you'll probably make what ya lost in this tour, maybe a bit more.
Great info. I'm a concert-goer and videographer, not a musician. While I get plenty of alerts from a number of programs and sites about upcoming concerts, rarely does a week go by when I see a concert I would've loved to attend but didn't know was scheduled. It made sense what you said about fans being unaware you were coming to town, despite your efforts. I've had some venues link to one of my videos to help promote an artist but it seems rare that a venue will go outside the box to promote and, in the case of my vids, it's only been smaller U.S. Midwest or mid-South shows. I applaud you for getting out there (it ain't easy) and being transparent. While I'd love to see you if you make it to the U.S. & Tennessee, that sorta thing would be hugely expensive. Maybe if you're on holiday in the states you can do a few popup shows (like in Nashville? 😀). Anyway, keep doing what you're doing. Very much appreciated by us, your fans!
Thank you Mary, I applaud your courage, dedication and resilience. i'm ordering a t-shirt to help out. Enjoyed your comments here and with Rick Beato regarding Jim Croce. Peace in the New Year. john
this is totally heartbreaking for independent artists... recording an album can easily cost you 10K, touring another 10K-40K if you're lucky, almost no money is being made in merch/CD's, virtually being paid zero from Spotify for our music... I just don't understand how we're supposed to make this viable, not even to make any money, just to do it all and break even...the older I get the more I get to see this as just a VERY VERY expensive hobby to have. it's extremely sad 😭
In the mid '70s it was said that only EJ, The Stones and ABBA made tour profits. A label-backed expense to promote unit sales - hopefully a bit of merch. Different universe now - but the groundswell is coming, and you will thrive!
Thank you for your insights and candor on the touring life. In my younger years, I dreamed of 'getting in the van' and going on tour. I've traveled for shows on my 30s and 40s, but never a tour. Some Spinal Tap moments happened along the way. There's still a mystique about it, yet I realize the reality of touring. I don't know that my old bones would put up with it these days. Though, I'm looking to retire and travel in a few years. Merry Christmas, Mary. Be good to you
This is such a great, clear overview. It’s all part of the journey-those weren’t mistakes, they were lessons learned. Next time you'll smash it Sleeping in the van, no way Jose!!
Hi Mary you actually did pretty well especially taking a band on the road of hired musicians. You didn’t play to empty rooms, and sold merch….. not always a given believe me. If I can suggest a few things from far too many years of doing this scale of tour 1 if you go out without the band at least take 1other preferably someone who can share the singing and play say a keyboard as well as a guitar and can at least do backing vocals takes the strain a bit and is much more interesting to watch. 2 Don’t drive yoursel if you’re traveling more than an hour or 2 as you will get too tired and not be safe driving, tour manager/assistant general useful person is a a must for a couple of weeks touring. 3 See that extra musician I talked about, try and find another singer songwriter and double up on the tour promote each other play each other’s songs, make sure you split the costs and it can work. 5 Next time when you are traveling into unfamiliar places look on performers who are in the area Facebook pages etc and see if common venues turn up if they do then that’s where you need to go. In Glasgow for example Stereo or King Tuts would probably have done you better as they are smaller than StLukes and are geared up for self promoting acts. As Insaid don’t be too upset, Ikve been in a situation where we lost nearly £1500 a day on a 6week tour due to nobody thinking about hotel costs as some muppets thought it was in the contracts that accommodation was to be provided by the local promoters, guess what it wasnt
the tour vlogs were special. talking of solo touring, surely the audiences are going to see mary spender and not necessarily the album experience. please don't think i am in any way trying to be negative. you are an artist of our times and we adore you.
As a musician and sound engineer I have always bought gear I thought I would someday use. It hurt because it seemed like a foolish expense, but somehow, the universe saw that I would need that gear and would make up the cost and even make a profit. Either way, it helped my career and I was seen as someone who did have the gear and the experience. This is exactly what you have done. Now you have earned those stripes. You did it, despite the cost and now you know.
Thank you for making the effort to tour, and give of yoruself through live music.Sorry, i coudl nto be there. Happy Christmas and a Prosperpous New Year. 🇨🇦
Oh dear. Oh Mary I was so afraid this might happen. Ouchhh!!!! I hope you can recoup the rest of that money through selling the rest of your stock of merch, getting some more TH-cam traction with the Tour vlog, and selling your course. Maybe grab a few quick one-off solo shows as follow ups in a few cities if a venue or three comes calling with a good offer. OK, that last part is a fantasy. 😂I'm fairly sure that doesn't happen much. But a guy can dream. I do hope you feel the experience was worth it.
The video was very informative, nice to see you opening about the costs. One thing I didnt like was that sales pitch at the end. I understand it, just dont like it. Good luck with the next tour, lessons learned.
sometimes you just have to give it a go.. and the minute it's done, you can move onto the next thing. particularly in the studio. but just as importantly going out there getting in front of people. it's not time wasted. you've cut new treks. and pathways. and it's a foundation to build on. the next time round won't be your first rodeo.. type thing.. you're doing very well. merry christmas 🙏
I’m so glad you did tour as the gig my son and I came to in Cambridge was so enjoyable. I’d pay to see you solo if that was all that was financially viable for you in the future and I trust many others would too.
Hi Mary, I have worked in a touring band and we always made money. There are many bands who are unknown who do. - 1.Firstly they do it as a job. 2. Because of reason "One" they do covers, or become a tribute band. 3. They have an agent who books them 6 months in advance. So, you know exactly how much you are getting paid. 4. No ticket sales, no venue hire. You turn up play and drive home or stay over, all in the contract. Now I understand many will think this is completely different as you do independent original music. But the lessons learned are the same. Many bands under our agent didn't play 5 nights a week like us, they had day jobs. We did 20 gigs a month. The difference is because we played 5 nights we became amazing very quickly. We learned what worked, we learned how to perform. This is vital. So much so we ended up playing the show abroad too, making more money at a higher rate as we got better than most. The world of playing your own songs is still possible, but may not be necessary...I know playing live is great and the buzz is a real drug. But a tour a year will not cut it for an original artist. If you tour, You should do it yourself, alone with backing tracks or just acoustic. Drive to and from the venue back home, no stay over costs. It always comes down to money, sadly. It is fabulous that you had the balls to do it anyway. That is so,so admirable. You will make the money back in other ways karma will reward you. - Keep it all going and I hope the next big adventure like this has fewer mishaps... All the best Merry Christmas and have a fab 2025.
Great and informative video. I've read of similar situations with independent acts losing a lot of money conducting a tour and even somewhat larger acts. It seems the only independent entertainment acts that can make money are comedians, unless they don't bring in enough gate. But there is something to be said of the value of the experience you gained even though it would be hard to quantify and it doesn't pay the bills. Hopefully your YT and merch income is offsetting the losses to a degree. And keep making music - you're smart, obvioulsy creative, and will succeed. As an aside, I listen to mostly what I deem independent acts like Metric, The Birthday Massacre, and many others and even though they have had hits and put out a slew of albums I don't think they are killing on tours either. TBM I believe crowd funded one of their projects. But they keep on keeping on.
There is an interesting asterisk involving Buddy Holly’s final fateful tour in 1959. It seems he was forced to go out on the road after his producer refused to advance him some royalty money at the time. The tours for musicians at that time all were done on cheap, bare-bones buses, and the stars and musicians both had to endure brutal, freezing winter temperatures. By February 2nd of that year, Holly had had enough and made the decision to charter a small plane, for some additional time as well as not having to endure the brutal ride on the bus again. Ritchie Valens & The Big Bopper heard about the two extra seats that were initially earmarked for others, and started making deals with those parties. Of course we all know the legend of what happened that night. And that one story is just one standout of decades of them. The plain fact of the matter is that unless you’re a mega-star or band ( and even then there are the drugs, boredom and leech-like hangers), touring is simply not the walk in the park everyone always assumes it is. It’s never just “riding from one town to another, taking in the dough”. The myths persist after many decades.
Very interesting to listen to. I wish it would have been turned out financially better for you! As a fellow youtuber, and as you calculated the costs of your camara-woman I still would have loved to see you to make the points of getting very special content from your tour. I suppose you get around 200 Euro for 50 k views ad-revenue from YT and I forgot if there were placements or paid ads in your tour-videos (or even promotion for your own products)? I guess that would maybe half the -12.000 ?
![Dire Straits - Romeo and Juliet [Cover by Mary Spender and Nathaniel Murphy]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oe7LD9m-4Hc/mqdefault.jpg)
50% OFF MY *NEW* TOURING COURSE - bit.ly/3BKPZmf
The G Gyy Named yoy Spender ThOYGH
metallica Spent 180.000$ On First Toyr By their Families. It S Crazy
I dont know for sure but im guessing that only the big names break even or make alittle money. If you want to play it safe id do live on line concerts ? BTW i think you are extremely talented why you havent made it big yet is the whole music scene is in the crapper. Its not that you are doing anything wrong IMO.
@@MarySpender This is a great course. Imagine it like this “Mary, tell me about your tour because I am curious or maybe thinking of doing it myself. Let’s have coffee.“
Mary: “I’ll tell you all I’ve learned. I want you to know what it’s really like.” It’s what we’ve come to expect from Mary Spender: Realistic, heartfelt, clear.
Thank you. At the very least, fans should understand that they have to pay the artists, and that means not stealing music and paying appropriate ticket fees. And where possible, government needs to intervene, if only to just make international touring simpler.
Back when I was in college I was in several bands, they were all in the punk genre. One of the groups decided we wanted to do a tour over just playing local shows once a month or so. We booked 4 venues in several states, we lived in the Midwest of the U.S, over 5 days. Fortunately, the venues that we played were small, either dedicated underground live venues with a couple of bars that had a low overhead cost to rent out. One of the bars gave us a deal where they hooked us up with a percentage of alcohol sales, I think we made like 15 bucks off that. We ended up playing 5 extra shows that we got haphazardly plugged into after people saw us at a previous show and got us to make an extra trip after the original "tour" ended. We slept in a 1986 Dodge van that we pulled a trailer behind, 2 of the 15 nights we were out we were gifted someone's floor, which was awesome. For a group of late teen to early 20 year old punk dudes in the early 2000's it was a miserably great experience of sore backs and legs, sleep deprivation, and gut rot after living off booze/coke and gas station burritos, four dudes in a van was rough. I think we lost around $800 doing the tour. That was my first, and last tour.
Appreciate your vulnerability to share this info! Nobody likes to talk about losses but you are helping so many by doing so! Thank you!
vulnerability? Really?
I am soooo glad that you published this information, Mary. You are a trusted voice in the indie music world.
we went on tour with my 3 piece punk band in 2017. 20 gigs in 27 days, sold out 16 of them and the other 4 were pretty bouncing, the three of us slept in my van every night (we had a small trailer for gear) we survived on a diet of lidl bread and peanut butter (and beer) The tour was fantastic and went as well as i could ever dream it woudl, sold a good amount of merch.... if i remember right we made about £200 guid each after all of it.... GREAT SUCCESS
I go to as many underground gigs as I can afford. This is life. I see my friends losing money after grafting. It's insane. People wonder why so many musicians are super-thin.
@tdtm82 Ai music robot channels are attracting more clicks per day than ive had in 10 years 😬 i do it out of love anyway
@@tdtm82 wild part is the touring is where the money supposedly is now that the record deals are for shit
@timrhughes Oh yes. It has to be fully self-sustained. Seriously no idea how bands manage it. So many have other jobs
@@tdtm82 I often daydream of one day opening a small cafe/lounge for live indie performances, but I always get told by those who know more than me that the nick name for cafe/live music lounges is "marriage breaker" or "family destroyer"!! Sigh.
This kind of transparency is so helpful for re-drawing public ignorance about the "lavish rock star life" it's assumed is lived by anyone with a public presence. THANK YOU.
Love the "Sleep in the Van" song. And, as for actually sleeping in the van... sod that! Touring is stressful enough and you absolutely need a sound base to chill and relax and prepare for the next day.
As a music lover and regular attendee of live music this is very enlightening. We always buy merch to support the bands we see but really had no idea on how tight a budget is for a band. Thanks as usual for sharing this behind the scenes economics on what it takes to put out great live music. I’m even now more appreciative of those that do this for a living to provide entertainment and inspiration to us music lovers.
You wrote, produced and toured in support of your album, for me that’s unequivocal success regardless of the numbers to the millions like me at home with a guitar and notepad. Well done and as always your honesty and candor much appreciated 🙏
To me, that's a financially unwise decision. Most people don't view losing money in an ill-advised venture as "unequivocal success." It's an "unequivocal failure" actually. The mental gymnastics you have to use to convince yourself that this is somehow successful must be elaborate!
Mary is a treasure for sharing this information. One of the best YT musicians out there.
☝️ yes she wears her heart on her sleeve
How not to plan a tour? Followed by a plug for how to plan a tour?
My respect for you is huge for sharing this. Makes me reflect on my fears in a productive way.
you are one artist that I could get behind more due to your candor and honesty, LOVE how you break things down and If I was a travelling artist you would be my first stop
Head up shoulders back and chest forward... march.... my grandfathers favourite saying, "You're not failing, you're just learning how not to do it!"
Good job communicating the effort and the costs. As someone who has produced several tours, I would encourage anyone considering touring to get your course. I have no doubt it will be very helpful, prevent costly mistakes, and save time and money.
Congrats on your tour and thank you so much for sharing this info!! A better educated audience and bands raises the sea level for all and I hope the good karma you’ve built doing this pays off for you in amazing ways 🙌🏼
In the end, if you're selling a product, people have to want it.
5 musician Band:
2500/ musicians = 12.500
2500 / other members(Manager, Driver, Mixer) 7.500
20.000/ month has to be made after all expenses. If the members have family.
Thats why most musicians stay at Hobby Level. Me too.
I am genuinely shocked by how low your merchandise sales are. Back in my touring days, those were always what made the touring viable. For the rest, it's crazy how nothing has changed in the last decade since I quit. More power to you for still trying to make it work.
I’m not, I saw shed seven in a pack Oxford academy and hardly anyone buying merch. I mean £25 for tee is a lot but I always get one for the kids to support the band but I guess at the moment it’s a stretch for some
@@willgoodchild4343 my shock wasn't implying she was lying or anything, rather that yeah, we live in such dire times that the very idea of buying merch is really on the table anymore. And that sucks for everyone involved.
merch sales *wildly* vary from genre to genre. Metal audiences easily spent ten times as much on merch as a lot others, resulting in all touring metal bands that I know making far more on the merch table than on the door.
@@MarcoVisconti i was agreeing with buddy. It’s a sad time to be a musician and if people arent by merch it’s leaving very little for the musician.
Thank you for this illuminating video. It sounds like you planned and ran the tour as efficiently as possible. As for the hotel, I would much rather listen to a band that is well rested and fed. Don't sleep in the van. This is a challenging time in the UK so people likely are less willing to part with their money but quality always wins out and you are absolutely fabulous.
I'm glad that I was able to come and see you in Bristol, and I am sorry that it didn't end up being a financial success. I hope that you have a lovely Christmas, and that your New Year is your best one ever, Mary!
Jack Gibson from Exodus took a lot of flack for saying 'I'm A T-Shirt Salesman. I'm Not A Musician.' this year, but…
First heard you on TH-cam with Toni and Rena. Live in Colorado Springs Colorado. Love to see you if you come to ‘merika, don’t blame you if you don’t, we are weird now and getting weirder. Will continue to support you on TH-cam.
You are rightly proud of the album and wanted to play it live, but the first set was the highlight of the night for me - don't underestimate the attraction of just you and your guitar; it wasn't the band who sold the tickets and, WHEN you do your solo outing, I'll be first in line (again).
@MrMistoffelees I'm in the USA and haven't seen Mary live, but had a similar experience the first time I saw Willy Porter about 25 years ago. His first set was just him, and his second set was with his band. Not taking anything away from the band at all...but I was focused on Willy and his multi-capos & weird tunings, so I didn't really have much bandwidth left for the band.
Wow, thanks for sharing all these details! I think fans may know many of these costs individually but don't really tabulate them en mass. I think you did do a really great job planning and executing - off the top of my head the VAT and ticket sales percentage were the drivers into negative territory; you did all you could for the ticket sales and I can see that VAT being a surprise unless you've lived it or know from another person. Loved Sleep In the Van! A band called The Warning has a song about the love/hate feelings of touring called Hell You Call A Dream, I think you can relate!
I am watching this video with the most awe and respect possible. It's so so wonderful that you went for it and have the vulnerability to show what it's really been like. I will keep your course in mind for when I start planning my own tour. Keep it up. You're amazing.
You are one special lady Mary. Hopefully the memories you've acquired from this experience will put conciliation and balance towards your financial losses. I absolutely loved the "Sleep in the Van" tune, since I've had to do that more times than I care to remember. Rock on sweet lady, your next tour will be great and profitable. Love, from the USA!
I've never toured, but I've traveled long-distance every summer for years. I absolutely agree about not sleeping in the van. This is an object lesson in the risks of being an independent musician. And you might still fail to make any money on the tour. Music is a niche business, and increasingly, actual, live music is at risk from multiple sources, including AI, TH-cam (Ironic, eh?) and others. Even if I were 50 years younger, I'd never try it as a way to support myself. The business can be - and often is - absolutely heartless. You have my sympathy and appreciation.
I mean: cross out the "independent". Even a lot of signed bands basically have the exact same experience as Mary, only that they have bookers and promoters who did a lot of the work Mary did herself (and take a cut from the increbidly small pie for it).
Good video. Are you going to NAMM?
I love your straight talking way, I've just come across your channel (don't know how) and enjoying your videos. Maybe I'll go on tour one day :)
Really informative!
Very interesting and realistic breakdown of touring. Merry Christmas!
Back in the dark ages, the early mid 70s, I toured Ontario. Since most of our gigs were 6 nighters, we slept in whatever places the clubs had. But on the nights we travelled, we slept in the van. With all the gear. PA, lighting, amps, keyboards, etc. On one trip from Kapaskasing in the dead of winter, it's was minus 40 outside. We were in the back of the van, on top of the PA speakers. It was so could that beer bottles were freezing and popping.
So for those who say "sleep in the can". Go to hell! Try it!
@jeremythornton433 Indeed...it's pretty miserable! I'm from that era and was in Ontario for 2 weeks back then. I also remember a pretty thick layer of ice on the inside of the windows. Being from Tennessee I'd never seen that, or a car driving on the ice on a lake before.
@@retiredwonk And you'd only see that in Northern Ontario. Kapuskasing, yes. Toronto, no.
"I get knocked down, but i get up again ..." has taken on a new meaning now I take it. I wonder if hiring a proper tour bus with sleeping compartments might make a difference. That would combine the van rental, car rental, lodging, and fuel costs ($6274), plus the added room would allow for you to bring along more food and snacks to cut down on the food costs at the gas stations and might allow for additional equipment (a backup PA system would have saved the rental). You did not mention the projected income from the TH-cam channel episodes that went along with the tour. I wish you weren't across the pond ... i would have loved to see you live!!!
No. It's about £2k a day for a tourbus in the UK. The big problem is that you need to pay the company for the driver too. Vans and cars can be driven by those already paid to be on the tour, in the UK it's normally an hour or two max drive to the next venue.
You are the most honest musician in the biz. Fantastic information for new, and seasoned, players. ❤
Mary, hopefully Rick B will get to see this and comment on your experience and losses. I did enjoy your videos and I will continue to watch and enjoy you. Happy new year.
@hanko219 yes I hope Rick B does do a deep dive into Mary's tour. Also hoping Mary will do a solo USA tour, although that's a "separate-but-equal" kind of hell compared to a UK tour. She could definitely sell out the City Wineries in Atlanta and Nashville...which are about the only venues in those cities that pay.
The first cut is the deepest, hope the next tour is even better
Without hits, touring like this will not change.
My friends quit after 18 years as a band this year. On Saturday I went to a small venue in London to see a band from Spain and a bunch of punk-rockers play. It was four bands. There was barely any punters ontop of the bands. It is a HUGE worry for bands. Promoting a tour is SUPER hard when people don't go out because they do big tours (lots of those happening) and are waiting patiently for the NEXT trend when they can just go to a small venue and see a hard-grafting band. Bands are struggling to grow. The economy isn't working for bands. It's so expensive to record with electricity costs and equipment costs and then when you want to tour the modern hotel costs are just insane. You have to budget and be as self-sufficient as possible and then it is a nightmare to just break-even. I have absolutely no idea how bands continue to play. It's really hard. For Bristol next year use Thekla. It's a boat. It's ridiculously cool.
Man, Mary will know the Thekla, but from a fan viewing perspective, it's probably the worst venue in Bristol IMHO. The exchange is pretty cool.
@Truthinshredding1 How is it the worst? I don't live in Bristol but I go to loads of gigs. I used to work in the shipping industry so it's great seeing vessels used for something other than scrap.
Sincere question from a non-Brit. What does this mean?... "There was barely any punters ontop of the bands"
@CraigCholar punters, these are individuals who will pay for a ticket.
@@CraigCholar It means there were very few people paying to get in, and the majority of the audience was made up of the other musicians playing on the night and their entourages.
It's unbelievable. I have much less followers (45k) than you and also did an album and 2 Gigs. Lost more than you though... but I cherish the experience. Will not do it again anytime soon. Glad for everybody that did show up - THANK YOU.
It is unbelievable that with your following, you were not in the green.
cost of living crisis possibly has doubled expenses 😳 i saw dweezle zappa has been going through the same thing 😕 its a long way to the top.. if you want to country and western ☝️🔭🙄
BTW, loved the Bristol show. And having the band with you absolutely brought the album to life on the stage. Two of your expensive items, yes, but both totally worth it. 🙂
Thanks for being so honest! I loved your tour vlog series (and was also one of those who somehow missed you being so close at the Portland Arms.) Good luck for future, I'll definitely keep more of a look out in future.
Merry Christmas Mary!!! All the best for 2025. This is the year you blow up. i have every era of music under my belt, from the 50's on up, and I can say without fail, your album is excellent. Original, inspired, and has heart. Fine dining among a sea of fast food. Onward and upward.
Thank you for sharing, Mary!
The death of revenue streams for most artists concerns me greatly. Being in western Canada I'm too far away to contribute by attending, but I did buy your picking course. And although you didn't benefit from it directly, I bought the reddish telecaster you had in one of your videos. If I had a turntable I would buy the vinyl. I'm a fan of your transparency. Thanks for these videos.
Amo tu honestidad y tu explicación. Un video super útil para los músicos que aspiran a salir de tour. La próxima será mejor. Ya eres una ganadora al por haber salido y planeado todo por ti misma.
Love your channel Mary. Your candor is truly appreciated. Sorry that things didn't quite go as expected. It sounds like moving forward you will learn from your mistakes as well as opening a school for tourng musicians. Well done! 👍
I was at your Cambridge gig, thought the band was awesome ... hope you manage to find a way to get them out on the road again! I was at another gig at the same venue a couple of weeks later ... the band went heavy on Facebook promotion and managed to fill the venue with a higher ticket price. I chatted to few people at the gig, no one had heard of the band before but the fb ads were so good they decided to check them out....
It's a tough pill for her to swallow, but I think your comment is onto something. Her identity on TH-cam is mostly a musician talking about being a musician. I bet if she went on tour just herself, as she mentioned, and did a "Mary Spender Plays and Talks Music" she could charge higher prices and get both music fans and musicians who want to go hang out together.
I remember having a 10 minute conversation with Annie Clark (St Vincent) circa her debut 2007 after a show in New Orleans on her first tour. (I went in cold- My connection was Polyphonic Spree and Sufjan Stevens). I was gobsmacked at her performance, artsy/edgy lyrics and songwriting - guitar histrionics. I thought that Annie had such a persona, that she would go far and told her as such. She expressed sleeping in the van on amplifiers and felt guilty she wasn’t slepping the gear right at that moment with the guys. She was very excited when she saw my newly purchased merch table vinyl under her arms and insisted on signing it. Really down to earth back then - now she dons some Bowie like personas and plays large clubs and festivals
Keep at it but don’t quit your cool day job of social content (speaking of just me, I could listen to your voice, poise and content for hours on end). Hone your songwriting and keep your optimism.
Play for the joy of it and remember like an evangelist for Jesus, you never know what seeds you have planted
My son would play for tip money all over town in rock / soul / funk bands doing original music.
He now teaches classical music to middle school kids in Berlin
How can Live Nation thrive on it? Special Know-How or just economy of size?
@@ralfklonowski3740 IMHO 1 word: Monopoly
Let's get you in the black Mary. I will buy a touring course, although I would never think about touring unless I had label support. And if I do I will use backing tracks.
I love your passion! Running a small business is very difficult, most fail, but it cost to learn , but can make you stronger. I love your music!
Money is only one measure of success. Necessary, but not always the most important
Hi Mary,
I wish I could have seen you "live".... For my husband and I, it is about a 10 hour flight just to get to the UK. As far as "sleeping in the van"... OMG! 😒 While I was in the Army, I slept for nearly THREE WEEKS, together with another girl and three guys, on, in, around, or by "Cyclops" as we affectionately called the truck (as it had a broken headlight) which we were assigned to. NO... I longed for my little bed in the barracks, and a HOT SHOWER and even a real TOILET. Staying in a hotel was definitely the right move. ☺
I've been waiting for this video since the last tour vlog. Thanks for a look behind the curtain. Will you be doing a follow-up video on your Heartbreaker guitar?
Thank You, Mary! Even though I am not a performer I found this video very informative about the music industry and really having a good budget plan in place to take on such an endeavor
Thank you for sharing. What would you do next time to help with VAT?
It might help if an enterprising person set up a network of small venues with a small integral dormitory for bands to sleep/shower. They'd get a lot of bookings.
If I sent my staff on a business trip and told them to stay in the van, social media would go crazy about how bad a boss I am. But if you’re a musician it’s not only encouraged but expected. Music is still a business and people shouldn’t be embarrassed about trying to make a profit.
Good points!
Too bad. Please do not despair. It is worth performing for people who love your music. The money invested in your concerts will certainly pay off one day. All the best!
You are fantastic, Mary! Keep on!
Informative and interesting video.
Your analysis seems thorough and clear-eyed. You might simply decide to think about your adventure as having "paid some dues." If the road calls you again, I hope you go at with gusto.
Great video! So glad that you enjoyed the tour experience and that you were brave enough to post this video about the cost! I totally agree that some lessons can only be learned by doing it. Hopefully you’ll do a second album and a second tour. Have you explored the idea of a pay-per-view for those of us who can’t make the live shows?
I'm sorry to hear this, it's the way things are now....
The biggest mistake was loosing 20% of your income with the of value of ticket sales.
Very interesting - and dismaying. Thank you for sharing this experience.
Really great video! Thanks for this.
being both the talent AND the showrunner for a whole tour (plus with session musicians) is brutal. I imagine it's the only option to book a whole tour for many artists nowadays but daaamn.
No guts, no glory! The guts, you got! Happy for you!
Wish I could have seen a show but I'm stateside. Thanks for the revealing info regarding the dollars spent.
That was really interesting, nice one. Tough business being an artist
I appreciate your openness. Thanks. The thought of touring these days is really scary. But it looks like you probably have it all figured out. Solo tour, work taxes into ticket sales, smaller venues, and you'll probably make what ya lost in this tour, maybe a bit more.
Rock and roller / singer songwriter / accountant / manager/ promotor, all rolled into one. Impressive
Have a great festive season 😎☯️
Great info. I'm a concert-goer and videographer, not a musician. While I get plenty of alerts from a number of programs and sites about upcoming concerts, rarely does a week go by when I see a concert I would've loved to attend but didn't know was scheduled. It made sense what you said about fans being unaware you were coming to town, despite your efforts. I've had some venues link to one of my videos to help promote an artist but it seems rare that a venue will go outside the box to promote and, in the case of my vids, it's only been smaller U.S. Midwest or mid-South shows. I applaud you for getting out there (it ain't easy) and being transparent. While I'd love to see you if you make it to the U.S. & Tennessee, that sorta thing would be hugely expensive. Maybe if you're on holiday in the states you can do a few popup shows (like in Nashville? 😀). Anyway, keep doing what you're doing. Very much appreciated by us, your fans!
Wow nice video essay! Cool the way you opened big! Thanks!
tkssssssssss for sharing to such a great depth. all the best
Thank you Mary, I applaud your courage, dedication and resilience. i'm ordering a t-shirt to help out. Enjoyed your comments here and with Rick Beato regarding Jim Croce. Peace in the New Year. john
this is totally heartbreaking for independent artists...
recording an album can easily cost you 10K, touring another 10K-40K if you're lucky, almost no money is being made in merch/CD's, virtually being paid zero from Spotify for our music...
I just don't understand how we're supposed to make this viable, not even to make any money, just to do it all and break even...the older I get the more I get to see this as just a VERY VERY expensive hobby to have. it's extremely sad 😭
This is amazing to watch this process... thanks. 👍👍
happy xmas mary you are the best such a great artist
OK TH-cam! Time to help Mary make up the diff! Time to buy ALL the merch and share her wonderful music with everyone you know! Let's GO!!!!!
In the mid '70s it was said that only EJ, The Stones and ABBA made tour profits. A label-backed expense to promote unit sales - hopefully a bit of merch. Different universe now - but the groundswell is coming, and you will thrive!
Thank you for your insights and candor on the touring life.
In my younger years, I dreamed of 'getting in the van' and going on tour. I've traveled for shows on my 30s and 40s, but never a tour. Some Spinal Tap moments happened along the way.
There's still a mystique about it, yet I realize the reality of touring.
I don't know that my old bones would put up with it these days. Though, I'm looking to retire and travel in a few years.
Merry Christmas, Mary.
Be good to you
Thanks for sharing that info with us! I hope the videos made from this tour help to reduce the incurred loss.
Very helpful!
Great Job! Hope you had the time of your life...
Hopefully, people loved the concerts and you'll get more fans! 🙃
I'd love to watch it one day
This is such a great, clear overview.
It’s all part of the journey-those weren’t mistakes, they were lessons learned. Next time you'll smash it
Sleeping in the van, no way Jose!!
Hi Mary you actually did pretty well especially taking a band on the road of hired musicians.
You didn’t play to empty rooms, and sold merch….. not always a given believe me.
If I can suggest a few things from far too many years of doing this scale of tour
1 if you go out without the band at least take 1other preferably someone who can share the singing and play say a keyboard as well as a guitar and can at least do backing vocals takes the strain a bit and is much more interesting to watch.
2 Don’t drive yoursel if you’re traveling more than an hour or 2 as you will get too tired and not be safe driving, tour manager/assistant general useful person is a a must for a couple of weeks touring.
3 See that extra musician I talked about, try and find another singer songwriter and double up on the tour promote each other play each other’s songs, make sure you split the costs and it can work.
5 Next time when you are traveling into unfamiliar places look on performers who are in the area Facebook pages etc and see if common venues turn up if they do then that’s where you need to go. In Glasgow for example Stereo or King Tuts would probably have done you better as they are smaller than StLukes and are geared up for self promoting acts.
As Insaid don’t be too upset, Ikve been in a situation where we lost nearly £1500 a day on a 6week tour due to nobody thinking about hotel costs as some muppets thought it was in the contracts that accommodation was to be provided by the local promoters, guess what it wasnt
the tour vlogs were special.
talking of solo touring, surely the audiences are going to see mary spender and not necessarily the album experience. please don't think i am in any way trying to be negative. you are an artist of our times and we adore you.
You have fans around the world! You should do some sort of pay per view concert for all of us that don't live in the UK.
As a musician and sound engineer I have always bought gear I thought I would someday use. It hurt because it seemed like a foolish expense, but somehow, the universe saw that I would need that gear and would make up the cost and even make a profit. Either way, it helped my career and I was seen as someone who did have the gear and the experience. This is exactly what you have done. Now you have earned those stripes. You did it, despite the cost and now you know.
Thank you for making the effort to tour, and give of yoruself through live music.Sorry, i coudl nto be there. Happy Christmas and a Prosperpous New Year. 🇨🇦
Oh dear. Oh Mary I was so afraid this might happen. Ouchhh!!!! I hope you can recoup the rest of that money through selling the rest of your stock of merch, getting some more TH-cam traction with the Tour vlog, and selling your course. Maybe grab a few quick one-off solo shows as follow ups in a few cities if a venue or three comes calling with a good offer. OK, that last part is a fantasy. 😂I'm fairly sure that doesn't happen much. But a guy can dream.
I do hope you feel the experience was worth it.
The video was very informative, nice to see you opening about the costs. One thing I didnt like was that sales pitch at the end. I understand it, just dont like it. Good luck with the next tour, lessons learned.
this is why we only played local shows. play the show, drive home.
sometimes you just have to give it a go.. and the minute it's done, you can move onto the next thing. particularly in the studio. but just as importantly going out there getting in front of people. it's not time wasted. you've cut new treks. and pathways. and it's a foundation to build on. the next time round won't be your first rodeo.. type thing.. you're doing very well. merry christmas 🙏
I’m so glad you did tour as the gig my son and I came to in Cambridge was so enjoyable. I’d pay to see you solo if that was all that was financially viable for you in the future and I trust many others would too.
Hi Mary, I have worked in a touring band and we always made money. There are many bands who are unknown who do. - 1.Firstly they do it as a job.
2. Because of reason "One" they do covers, or become a tribute band.
3. They have an agent who books them 6 months in advance. So, you know exactly how much you are getting paid.
4. No ticket sales, no venue hire. You turn up play and drive home or stay over, all in the contract.
Now I understand many will think this is completely different as you do independent original music. But the lessons learned are the same. Many bands under our agent didn't play 5 nights a week like us, they had day jobs. We did 20 gigs a month. The difference is because we played 5 nights we became amazing very quickly. We learned what worked, we learned how to perform. This is vital. So much so we ended up playing the show abroad too, making more money at a higher rate as we got better than most.
The world of playing your own songs is still possible, but may not be necessary...I know playing live is great and the buzz is a real drug. But a tour a year will not cut it for an original artist. If you tour, You should do it yourself, alone with backing tracks or just acoustic. Drive to and from the venue back home, no stay over costs. It always comes down to money, sadly.
It is fabulous that you had the balls to do it anyway. That is so,so admirable. You will make the money back in other ways karma will reward you. - Keep it all going and I hope the next big adventure like this has fewer mishaps... All the best Merry Christmas and have a fab 2025.
No offence, but telling people to just give up, because being an artist "is not necessary" is not helpful.
Thanks for making this. Very interesting and eye-opening! From 69 yr-old guy in U.S.
Great and informative video. I've read of similar situations with independent acts losing a lot of money conducting a tour and even somewhat larger acts. It seems the only independent entertainment acts that can make money are comedians, unless they don't bring in enough gate. But there is something to be said of the value of the experience you gained even though it would be hard to quantify and it doesn't pay the bills. Hopefully your YT and merch income is offsetting the losses to a degree. And keep making music - you're smart, obvioulsy creative, and will succeed. As an aside, I listen to mostly what I deem independent acts like Metric, The Birthday Massacre, and many others and even though they have had hits and put out a slew of albums I don't think they are killing on tours either. TBM I believe crowd funded one of their projects. But they keep on keeping on.
Have a very Merry Christmas and hope that the challenges you have faced this year, will lead to a successful and joyful 2025.
There is an interesting asterisk involving Buddy Holly’s final fateful tour in 1959. It seems he was forced to go out on the road after his producer refused to advance him some royalty money at the time. The tours for musicians at that time all were done on cheap, bare-bones buses, and the stars and musicians both had to endure brutal, freezing winter temperatures. By February 2nd of that year, Holly had had enough and made the decision to charter a small plane, for some additional time as well as not having to endure the brutal ride on the bus again. Ritchie Valens & The Big Bopper heard about the two extra seats that were initially earmarked for others, and started making deals with those parties. Of course we all know the legend of what happened that night. And that one story is just one standout of decades of them. The plain fact of the matter is that unless you’re a mega-star or band ( and even then there are the drugs, boredom and leech-like hangers), touring is simply not the walk in the park everyone always assumes it is. It’s never just “riding from one town to another, taking in the dough”. The myths persist after many decades.
So true!
Very interesting to listen to. I wish it would have been turned out financially better for you! As a fellow youtuber, and as you calculated the costs of your camara-woman I still would have loved to see you to make the points of getting very special content from your tour. I suppose you get around 200 Euro for 50 k views ad-revenue from YT and I forgot if there were placements or paid ads in your tour-videos (or even promotion for your own products)? I guess that would maybe half the -12.000 ?
'These men have mouths to feed' - What a quote.