Divine hiddenness from the standpoint of hide-and-go-seek. A possibly pointless exercise...but considering apologists claims, shouldn't the game already be over?
It's always been so obvious to me that if god truly existed, it would have to be the most obvious thing ever. The creator of the universe, the god of all creation, the origin of everything we know exists, and you have to point to an ancient book from bronze age goat herders to prove his existence. It's so bizarre.
It is obvious that God exists. You are lying to claim we must point to an ancient book to realize a Creator/God/Divinity/Great Spirit exists. What sort of damned fool believes an ancient book caused belief in a Creator? Do you believe flies cause trash? Atheism is madness.
its one of the reasons why theists dishonestly say atheists dont exist as everyone really believes. because if there are people that honestly dont believe it throws tar in their idea that God wants a relationship with everyone.
@@JimCastleberry Ah, I see that the homeschooler Jimmy-boy does his trolling here too. Same old patter, all baseless assertions and nothing to back them up.
Did you also play 'Squashed Sardines ' maybe by another name? It's the reverse of Hide-and-seek! One person hides. All those counting then go seek & when each of them finds the hider, they have to hide with them in the same place! The last one to find everyone, becomes the hider in the next round.
The creator is unseen but we see stunning creation. The universal logical rule used in the legal system states: When evidence of the unseen is sufficient (Quantity) and appropriate (Quality), proof becomes as firm as seeing the unseen. الثابت بالبرهان كالثابت بالعيان In the name of Allah, Most Merciful Ever Merciful: _Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]?_ - Quran 52.35 Quran 52.35 explains atheists’ contradiction: A building required a builder, a painting was painted by a painter but a biological fly did not require a creator. obvious contradiction. Atheism is the belief that the universe was created by nothing or was created by itself. The fly design stunned scientists because developing similar biological fly requires advanced technology. Scientists marveled at the fly’s light engines and maneuvering techniques: They said: "from where did it get this creative concept in the first place?!!"
Here’s something else to consider. Matt mentioned an adult version where a person could hop on a plane and go to Australia. Now, imagine kids playing hide-and-seek in America. Imagine the seeker came back saying, “I found Bobby. He was hiding in Australia.” No, he didn’t find Bobby. No, Bobby wasn’t hiding in Australia. Bobby wouldn’t have had the resources to get to Australia. More importantly for this analogy, the seeker wouldn’t have had the resources to get to Australia, search Australia, and get back. That’s what apologists like William Lane Craig sound like when they say God exists outside of space and time. Even if that is where God is, there’s no way for WLC to know that.
I never rly thought of divine hiddenness this way. Yk how ppl describe “growing in Christ”? Through my own yearning and curiosity, I feel like I’m growing in secularism and well, living in reality more and more every day. I feel so much pride in what I’m learning and becoming(and knowing that’s actually a GOOD thing)! The poor indoctrinated religious would think, “Satan is working on you every day, you mean”. What a joyous feeling to actually not believe that nonsense any more. Ty for doing what you do, Matt ❤
@@WhereAnt in a way im glad it only came from the human imagination, but then again..... knowing it came from the very minds that we have right now is scary in itself, knowing humans are capable of this kind of horror in the real world, thats the scariest part imo
You should'nt get ypur bible teaching from atheists who refuse to go by evidence and refuse to make sure they are correct. Do not allow them to influence how you think or live in anyway.
@@gurlgutzzz Keep in mind that the priests of old didn't want you to love their god, they wanted you to fear him. Frightened people are much easier to control, which is what organized religion has always been about. The "god is love" thing got tacked on later when scaring people into believing became less and less socially acceptable, but the bible is still full of references of how afraid we should be of this god. "Memento mori!" was what the preachers taught all the way to the Renaissance.
Ah, but remember that if god were to make himself known to everyone, it would somehow negate the possibility of loving/worshipping him honestly because _everyone_ knows that the strongest relationships are forged when you never actually have the other person interact with you in any way whatsoever and might as well be imaginary...
LOL. IKR? The excuses are so ridiculous if you take the word "relationship" at all seriously. It somehow would take away your free will if someone said "hello" to you audibly.
my favourite example as a retort to this line of reasoning when brought up by apologists is the person of Satan, who fully knows God and God's power, yet _still_ chooses to rebel.
Each religious book have their God appearing in some human form and then making themselves known to a few select people. Yet, once people started to question God, he decided to hide forever. So now theists have to make excuses for their god being AWOL. Somehow, they know their God and start taking abiut relationship with God based on hot air. Most people recognise that theists just make stuff up because they know that their God is made up.
Or just bring up the question of heaven. There everyone knows God exists and has some kind of relationship with Him, are they all lessened by that knowledge? Are they unable to love Him properly because they know He is real?
@Wertbag99 obviously everyone knows that heaven exists! Dib, dib. Which version of heaven? Strange that those who have claimed to have visited heaven during OOB experience create their expected version. I wonder why a timeless-spaceless entity seems to have human behaviour? No prizes for the answer.
As a former Christian For years I looked for god and it got to a point where I could no longer justify the reason for my beliefs. I had a honest conversation with myself and realized I had no good reason to believe anymore. So I began to investigate and I found Seth Andrew’s which lead to Aaron Ra, Matt Dillahunty and their way of thinking made so much sense while the teachings of religion was so unnecessary confusing. However Matt nor Seth or Ra changed my mind but they made me think. I changed my mind
That's great to hear. Even as an Igtheist/Atheist I still admit I could be wrong about anything. It takes a lot of courage and self reflection to do what you did.🖖
@@_Omega_WeaponThank you and I think I’m my opinion that if more people self reflect honestly then maybe real beneficial changes will be made. We could lie to everyone but we can’t lie to ourselves
Were you a Christian? The Bible says that a Christian is someone who knows God. Of course, if you do not know Him, if you were never born again, then it 'makes sense' not to continue. Yet, will you assume that the Bible is in error over your own (forgive me) corrupt heart? Are we not all liars, needing the light that a perfectly moral God gives? I will testify that all of the promises of the Bible (so far in my life) are true. For example, I know Christ, am 'seated in the heavenlies', and the 'Holy Spirit bears witness' with my spirit that I am a child of God. I have absolute certainty, while atheists place blind, unwarranted faith in their own understanding of life, its destiny, and purpose. I hope that you are open to the reality that you, not the Bible, are in error. Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Somehow, you missed the heart, the very point, of the gospel. I hope you will make this right with God. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshilohFollow your own advice and test your own beliefs and assumptions. Starting with "the Bible says" because no it doesn't and it wouldn't matter if it did.
I always wondered at the remark about how 'one must have a personal relationship' with Jesus. When I was a Christian, I heard this all the time, and thought to myself, 'how the heck does someone do that?' Well, now I know, someone does NOT do this, they are only having that relationship with themselves, in their own minds.
Louisiana schools are now required to display the Ten Commandments in all classrooms, and public schools in Oklahoma are now teaching the Bible! I'd love a video on this major issue.
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe "ALL school should teach the Bible." I agree . Teach the Bible how to read and write, and then send it to Mars for an extended vacation.
@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 Abandon your reasoned faculties and just accept me for no sufficiently good reason....... just because your soul needs saving, my child of Heaven.
The most popular reason I get from theists for me not finding their particular god, is that I'm doing something wrong. It seems the only way to be right, is to find their god for the same reasons they did. It's a level of denial that I'll never understand.
God _USED_ to show up all over the place. He walked with Adam in the Garden, and actually made Adam and Eve's first set of clothing. He parted the Red Sea. He spoke to Moses and the 72 elders, and called to Moses to come up the mountain. God came down and got in an actual wrestling match with Jacob (and had to cheat to win, by dislocating Jacob's leg). He made the sun to stop moving across the sky for a whole day. When Jesus died, God opened graves and allowed famous dead people to walk around and interacted with the living. And...then what? God retired? He got tired of celebrityhood?
I mean to some degree he is, strangely for all of them. If they want to show up they should call The Line, lots of people do it, you think God could once.
I've had this conversation with my religious friends on many occasions and they always resort to a "look at the trees" argument. They think it's utterly hilarious that I somehow can't see God when "he's all around". Once pressed, you realize that their entire foundation is based on an internal feeling or an argument from incredulity because they don't understand or can't conceive of a secular explanation. It's the arrogance that troubles me. It's a crutch that holds people back because they are convinved that they have all the answers.
You should look into the Dunning Kruger effect. It's in full display here. You're just as absurd as your religious friends. You know a little bit so you develop arrogance. 85% of the mass in the universe is unexplained and invisible. Physics can entirely break down and mean nothing in certain instances. Particles can interact instantaneously at huge distances i.e faster than light. A little humility would go a long way.
You talk about God every time you suggest objective morals. He historically came to Earth and said here I am, then died and rose to flex it. This is history
@@domcruise274 are you responding to me or a different comment? I didn't say anything about objective morals. Even if God is the source, morality would still be subjective to your God's opinion.
@@PokrRat777 morality would be grounded in the unchanging nature of God.. it’s the only way you can explain the way you live your life as if certain morals are objective.
If there's a god why would he hide ? Wouldn't he want to show himself so we can start a relationship with him, so we can be saved ? I mean, we are his most precious creation right ?.Thats what the bible says, so why not show up ?
If I were the marketing consultant for a new religion I'd always advise them to make their God SILENT and INVISIBLE. Those parameters create the much needed wiggle room to place the leader and/or high priests in between as the perfect spokesman for all of God's desires. Odd , how very few believers ever question this aspect of the con.
@@FoursWithin "When inventing a god, the most important thing is to claim it is invisible, inaudible, and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise, people will become skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent, and does nothing."
Apologists will probably say that God's theory of mind is beyond our ability to understand. But regardless of how mentally-advanced God is, if he understands our minds, he should know exactly what we would and wouldn't be convinced by, and chooses to not reveal himself in a convincing way to many people. Also, "God is beyond understanding" is little more than an admission that something doesn't make sense and someone can't explain it - you can use "beyond understanding" to explain away basically anything. Or apologists will give one of the typical unconvincing responses to divine hiddenness.
If god is beyond understanding, how can they know enough to say he's beyond understanding? It would be pure chaos, no one is able to identify it as anything, let alone god.
The main draw card of God is a continued existence after death and a threat of a bad existence after death if we don't believe in God. Would people still believe in God if there was no offer of an eternal afterlife in heaven?
God: "I want you to believe in me, or else I'll burn your skin off for eternity". Proceeds to author an authoritative tome about the universe in such a way that no sane person who read it would ever believe in God. Bit odd. Seems like it should be easier than this.
Mantracker with Terry Grant was a real hide-and-seek reality show, shot in Canada and America from 2006-12. Great show where the contestants (prey) are given a head start.
All through this I was thinking of the Monty Python "Olympic Hide and Seek" skit. Then you got to the "adult hide and seek" and it was soooo close to the MP skit. I never had an imaginary friend. I am starting to wonder if that is why being introduced to religion failed, it seemed to be so ridiculous to me?
7:55 In that case the other person knows you could have manipulated the boxes while he/she wasn't in the room. So the correct answer is the other person doesn't know.
Idk. I do think it would be creepy hearing God giggle. The only time I giggle is when I'm trying to scare children. I know this all says a bit too much about me, but I don't want to hear God giggle and I'll die on that hill.
I know you're dismissive of personal experience as proof for God, but I hear constant giggling every time I pass a closet. Great presentation, Matt. You're voice is getting almost as silky smooth as Seth's.
The street lights came on. God is still up in the tree, determined not to give up his position. He stays there until he gets that weird/nervous feeling in his peepee. Then finally gives up and says, "wait up guys, im here!"
Matt, what do you think, usually Christians what kind of God believe in? Something that can be located or mensurable? Or something that is out and above of all comprehensible compare that we know? Do you understand the second version? What do you think? (I hope I was clear, my main language is Hungarian)
When you escape a religion, you have to yell "olly olly oxen free." God is more elusive than Bigfoot. At least we have fuzzy obscured pictures of objects with a dash of face pareidolia.
“Well we’ve looked under every rock but haven’t found God anywhere on Earth maybe he’s hiding in Outer Space somewhere or inside the Atom or maybe he’s been inside each and every one of us all along!” 😜🖕🫣
At least Hinduism is honest about this; a follower of Krishna once told me that God purposely plays hide-n-seek with humanity as a lover would with his beloved -- not to frustrate us but to heighten the romantic tension between him (Krishna) and his devotees. My response: This might all be, well-n-good upto a point. In any romantic relationship, foreplay, if it does not lead to a culmination will only lead to frustration and dissatisfaction. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a Hindu, but an atheist who lives in India.
@@patelk464 Maybe. But I will always believe that life has inherent intangibles like duty and justice and things like that that exist as more than mere figments of the imagination or social constructs meant for prolonged survival and nothing else. Life is definitely about more than mere survival.
For an extra element we would try to get back to home base without being found by the seeker ….. kinda like sneaking into heaven with out god noticing 😂
the interesting question is how someone can even be shure they´ve found god. If there´s nothing to demonstrate to others, then how would one know it´s not just something funny their own mind did? Experiences of gods are common in all religions and when I ask a Christian or muslim if it´s possible to experience a nonexistent god, I just need to point to Hindus who experience their gods and are just as certain about that as Christians or muslims who make the same claim. So how would one know what they´ve experienced is real? I could point to many other things people have experienced that are most likely not real.
Faith is supposed to be the seeing glasses that can only be applied to feel [g]od or to see him indirectly. This is a big problem that I have with faith.
There is an adult version in Japan that is pretty creepy. “Hitori Kakurenbo”, “Alone Hide and Seek”. Like the name implies, you play on your own. The idea is to summon a spirit and includes a really complex ritual. You play at home, using a plush toy that you fill with rice, then tie up with a red thread and sink in water. There are variations, usually a time limit to accomplish the steps- namely how long to soak the toy for- then you hide, and wait. Instructions abound online and at least at one point, there were several forums discussing results and methods. It spawned and entire series of horror movies, too. Seems closer to god as the entire thing is about hyping yourself to detect creepiness. You’re alone, late at night, with the lights out, having gone through a ritual, then hiding in the dark and waiting. It is almost certain you’ll feel spooked, especially if you’re already the kind of person who is likely to try this out.
@@theboombody It's actually pretty interesting and the kind of thing anthropologists are bound to have a field day researching. What I have yet to fully get is why anyone who believes this kind of thing actually works, would try it out. It is maybe a kind of morbid curiosity? There is also- or was, at some point- a community so filming it and/or sharing the highlights of the experience might very well have factored it.
George is real . You can meet him at certain conventions. And he's a captivating writer. This God fellow never shows up at any of his conventions. And his so called inspired writing is a damn snoozefest. God the hidden fake...
Thank you so much Matt, for giving me god tee-heeing into the night. I feel like God hiding forever and just being a passive observer is ridiculous what's his reason to? There's a reason why he's never been found, he ain't there.
According to the theists who proselytize to me... Their god is everywhere all the time... Which makes no sense to me... Because I neither feel nor see nor smell nor notice it's presence here nor anywhere I've ever been. They can never explain why so many bad things happen every day.... While their deity sits back watching.
As human beings, we tend to see what we expect to see and not see what we don't expect to see. Whether one _wants_ to or _ought_ to see it isnt really part of the equation. If you start with the expectation of not seeing anything supernatural or miraculous because you don't believe in any such thing, it shouldn’t come as a shock that you don't encounter it. In fact, to one who finds the explanations that they're dreaming, being tricked, or something else, there will *always* be other plausible explanations. I think at least part of it depends on how amenable one is to the terms. Some examples of this are the audio recordings in which some listeners hear "brainstorm" while others hear "green needle," and in which some people hear "Yanny" versus "Laurel;" and which phrase the listener hears can be influenced by priming one's expectation. "As Dr. Kevin Franck, director of audiology at Massachusetts Eye and Ear, told TIME in reference to the great Yanny in agreement. debate, what you hear 'all comes down to the brain.' He said, 'The fact that brains go in one way and some brains go in the other means that we’re all just wired a bit differently based on our experiences. The brain is built to turn messy signals into meaning,' he says. 'It just will not give you ambiguity' " (2020, Locker). There was also the viral white and gold versus black and blue dress (Wallisch, 2023). Another example of this type of phenomenon is the famous "body transfer illusion" (Ehrsson, Holmes, & Passingham, 2005). There's also the famous video of a moonwalking bear in a basketball game, and Henry Cavill, in Times Square being unnoticed while wearing a Superman shirt (Bacardi, 2016). These sorts of phenomena may help to explain why non-resistent atheists don't encounter the experiences, signs, and evidence that they seek. They have biases just like everyone else. It's within the realm of possibility that even if what they want to see were readily available, they wouldn't notice because they have already been primed by circumstances beyond their control to expect to _not_ find it. For one to whom the possibilities that he or she is hallucinating, dreaming, insane, etc, are preferable, it may very well be that no amount evidence will ever be sufficient because they will likely gravitate to one of these other explanations so as to avoid being (perceived as) gullible. Peter Atkins, during his debate with astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross said, when asked what would convince him of the existence of a deity said, "If I were looking in the Bible for evidence...I would expect to see...that if there was literally an equation...that they discovered in the Bible..." but then backpedals with, "...I would probably think it was a forgery" (Atkins, 2018); when it is suggested that the stars were arranged to form the message, "Peter, please, believe in me," he responds, "I would put it down to madness;" and when it is explicitly stated that it sounds like there is nothing that would convince him, he replies, "to be honest, that's probably the case." During a talk with Peter Boghossian, Richard Dawkins says: "...even if there was this booming voice and the second coming in clouds of glory, the more probable explanation is that it's a hallucination, or a conjuring trick by David Copperfield, or something...I'm starting to think that nothing would [convince him that a deity exists]...which in a way goes against the grain because I've always paid lip service to the view that a scientist should change his mind when evidence is forthcoming..." (Dawkins, 2013). Finally, Boghossian himself, during a Q and A says, that when asked by a friend if the message, "I am God. Believe in me" were written in the sky for everyone to see (and it were not a drug-induced hallucinations), would this be enough to convince him, he responded: "For me, the answer to that would be 'no,' and it would be 'no' because...you'd have to be able to rule out alternative possibilities: time travelers, trickster alien cultures, etc. And...we can't do that...So, it couldn't be phenomenon. It couldn't be anything internal, right? It couldn't be a feeling state because people who have different God-beliefs have different feeling states..." (Boghossian, 2024). References: Atkins, P. [Premier Unbelievable?]. (2018, August 10). Atheist scientist's revealing answer to "could anything convince you God exists?". [Video]. TH-cam Bacardi, F. (2016, March 16). Henry Cavill Goes Unrecognized in Times Square, Even Without Clark Kent's Glasses. E! News Boghossian, P. [Peter Boghossian]. (2024, March 20). Peter Boghossian responds to a heckler: "I feel sorry for you.". [Video]. TH-cam Dawkins, R. [Peter Boghossian]. (2013, November 7). Richard Dawkins in conversation with Peter Boghossian. [Video]. TH-cam Ehrsson, H., Holmes, N. & Passingham, R. (2005, November 9). Touching a rubber hand: feeling of body ownership is associated with activity in multisensory brain areas. The Journal of Neuroscience. 25(45):10564-10573 Locker, M. (2020, July 30). ‘Green Needle’ or ‘Brainstorm'? A Puzzling Audio Clip Is Burning Up the Internet. Time Wallisch, P. (2023, March 27). We finally know why people saw “the dress” differently. Slate
All that is true, and that's why we have science, which is explicitly designed to counter all the skewed results that come from our subjective expectations. And science hasn't turned up God either.
@@scotte4765 Science hasn't found the asserted distinction between the "absence" of belief in a proposition and the presence of belief in its negation, either. Yet, atheists continue to think that there is one.
@@truerealrationalist If you start with the expectation of not seeing any leprechauns because you don't believe in leprechauns, then it shouldn't come as a surprise that you don't encounter leprechauns.
@@truerealrationalist Ooh! The thing you copy/pasted included citations? Bully for you. Amd even it then it falls down at the simplesy of challenges, such as merely requoting your own words but replacing one fairytale monster for another.
Playing Hide and Seek with God and with Heaven and Hell at stake is like the ultimate Carrot and Stick ever only there is no Carrot or Stick but we only imagine that there is! 😜
"For those of you who don't know what hide and seek is". Who doesn't know what hide and seek is lol. You would have had to have lived a very sad childhood not to know what hide and seek is.
I am an atheist, but I understand that a theist can easily respond to this by saying that God only shows himself to those he considers worthy enough... I think there are better ways to prove that God doesn't exist. Actually with their own starting point, that something cannot come from nothing. Logically, this only applies to something that is infinitely perfect and infinitely stable, such as a perfectly omniscient and omnipotent god. Inperfect things that are not infinitely stable can arise from imperfect nothing.
I could accept the existence of God more if he was described as an absentee landlord instead of the lurking, creeping, voyeur that they try to tell us only wants what is best for us.
i spent years playing “hide and seek” with the god version of myself through some weird version of eastern non dualism, thank god im an atheist now lol
@@noone3216 yes, that was a part of my “practice” at the time! although i didnt focus on it more than i did many other eastern practices i became familiar with. i took the route of doing too many psychedelics, listening to people like ram dass, which led me to an array of eastern theologies and ideas that i used to justify the existence of this game of hide and seek between my “higher self” and who i thought i was.
@@beherenow42 Completely relatable. To be honest, a lot of the philosophy of advaita vedanta helped get me through a *very* bad time in my life, so as a result I "followed" and studied it for almost a decade. I found the philosophy side of it incredibly interesting and some of it I would still say is a fairly accurate as far as our own personal experience goes. It's just a shame that it branches out from Hinduism, because I'd find the whole thing a lot more philosophically satisfying if it didn't all eventually lead to the conclusion of "therefore, Brahman". Up to a certain point I can agree with the sentiment of "it's a philosophy, not not a religion, because nothing we're talking about requires faith in something you can't verify yourself", but then you get to "therefore, Brahman" and maya, and the whole no-faith-required thing goes out the window.
@@noone3216 yes i absolutely agree! thats the issue i found myself in, i was labelling my practice as a philosophy and treating like a religion lol. i do know what you mean though, i definitely think secular humanism and many non dualistic eastern ideologies have similar moral systems and i think they are incredibly beautiful. i definitely miss it sometimes, but now it just feels like secular humanism in a different skin lol. im very happy you were able to use advaita vedanta to get through those things, it helped me out a lot too :))
The more I consider theism the more I can't understand how we all got this far without a single coherent description of a what a god is and that everyone seems to just accept such lack of clarity.
I want to understand something , you said the universe shows an appearance of design , but design needs to be demonstrated , now one might argue that doesn't universe hints at a God or creator , even if in a very very very vage way ?? And if God exists and he's all powerfull and crazy worship me or I'll burn you type of God , wouldn't it be a pragmatic act to submit to him bcz I remember saying you can believe in a God but not worship him
"Divine Hiddenness" just seems like a poetic way of expressing that we have a concept of a deity in our heads but, for all practical intents and purposes, he is completely indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist at all...
The God Debate tells it all. What kind of a god wants to have a personal relationship by remaining invisible and unknowable so you are forced to create god by using your own imagination? That's stupid.
It's always been so obvious to me that if god truly existed, it would have to be the most obvious thing ever. The creator of the universe, the god of all creation, the origin of everything we know exists, and you have to point to an ancient book from bronze age goat herders to prove his existence. It's so bizarre.
It is obvious that God exists. You are lying to claim we must point to an ancient book to realize a Creator/God/Divinity/Great Spirit exists. What sort of damned fool believes an ancient book caused belief in a Creator? Do you believe flies cause trash? Atheism is madness.
its one of the reasons why theists dishonestly say atheists dont exist as everyone really believes. because if there are people that honestly dont believe it throws tar in their idea that God wants a relationship with everyone.
@@theflyingdutchguy9870
The other is the sheer enjoyment of gaslighting others.
Yep, It's one of a millions of ways of saying it, and it has been said billions of times, and yet believers done believin' anyhow! 🤯 Daaaaaaaaaaaaang!
@@JimCastleberry
Ah, I see that the homeschooler Jimmy-boy does his trolling here too. Same old patter, all baseless assertions and nothing to back them up.
Hearing you explain hide-and-go-seek was strangly nostalgic.
Did you also play 'Squashed Sardines ' maybe by another name? It's the reverse of Hide-and-seek! One person hides. All those counting then go seek & when each of them finds the hider, they have to hide with them in the same place! The last one to find everyone, becomes the hider in the next round.
@@rebecca-borg i did not!
@@rebecca-borg
No! What kind of wack game 🎮 is that? 😳
The creator is unseen but we see stunning creation. The universal logical rule used in the legal system states: When evidence of the unseen is sufficient (Quantity) and appropriate (Quality), proof becomes as firm as seeing the unseen. الثابت بالبرهان كالثابت بالعيان
In the name of Allah, Most Merciful Ever Merciful:
_Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]?_ - Quran 52.35
Quran 52.35 explains atheists’ contradiction: A building required a builder, a painting was painted by a painter but a biological fly did not require a creator. obvious contradiction. Atheism is the belief that the universe was created by nothing or was created by itself. The fly design stunned scientists because developing similar biological fly requires advanced technology. Scientists marveled at the fly’s light engines and maneuvering techniques: They said: "from where did it get this creative concept in the first place?!!"
We had 'buske stamp' Kick the can.
In the middle there was a tin can that you could kick away and then everything would start all over again.
Here’s something else to consider. Matt mentioned an adult version where a person could hop on a plane and go to Australia. Now, imagine kids playing hide-and-seek in America. Imagine the seeker came back saying, “I found Bobby. He was hiding in Australia.” No, he didn’t find Bobby. No, Bobby wasn’t hiding in Australia. Bobby wouldn’t have had the resources to get to Australia. More importantly for this analogy, the seeker wouldn’t have had the resources to get to Australia, search Australia, and get back. That’s what apologists like William Lane Craig sound like when they say God exists outside of space and time. Even if that is where God is, there’s no way for WLC to know that.
I never rly thought of divine hiddenness this way. Yk how ppl describe “growing in Christ”? Through my own yearning and curiosity, I feel like I’m growing in secularism and well, living in reality more and more every day. I feel so much pride in what I’m learning and becoming(and knowing that’s actually a GOOD thing)!
The poor indoctrinated religious would think, “Satan is working on you every day, you mean”. What a joyous feeling to actually not believe that nonsense any more. Ty for doing what you do, Matt ❤
The character that is god within the Bible is probably more terrifying than any eldritch horror imaginable thankfully he doesn’t exist
Indeed. It is the most wretched character in all of fiction!
Facts, Im genuinely glad that psychopathic monster is a creation of the human mind
@@WhereAnt in a way im glad it only came from the human imagination, but then again..... knowing it came from the very minds that we have right now is scary in itself, knowing humans are capable of this kind of horror in the real world, thats the scariest part imo
You should'nt get ypur bible teaching from atheists who refuse to go by evidence and refuse to make sure they are correct. Do not allow them to influence how you think or live in anyway.
@@gurlgutzzz Keep in mind that the priests of old didn't want you to love their god, they wanted you to fear him. Frightened people are much easier to control, which is what organized religion has always been about. The "god is love" thing got tacked on later when scaring people into believing became less and less socially acceptable, but the bible is still full of references of how afraid we should be of this god. "Memento mori!" was what the preachers taught all the way to the Renaissance.
Me and my girlfriend play hide and seek...
She hides at another school so you'll never find her.
I hear she is in Canada, the Niagara Falls area. ;)
Ah, but remember that if god were to make himself known to everyone, it would somehow negate the possibility of loving/worshipping him honestly because _everyone_ knows that the strongest relationships are forged when you never actually have the other person interact with you in any way whatsoever and might as well be imaginary...
LOL. IKR? The excuses are so ridiculous if you take the word "relationship" at all seriously. It somehow would take away your free will if someone said "hello" to you audibly.
my favourite example as a retort to this line of reasoning when brought up by apologists is the person of Satan, who fully knows God and God's power, yet _still_ chooses to rebel.
Each religious book have their God appearing in some human form and then making themselves known to a few select people.
Yet, once people started to question God, he decided to hide forever. So now theists have to make excuses for their god being AWOL. Somehow, they know their God and start taking abiut relationship with God based on hot air. Most people recognise that theists just make stuff up because they know that their God is made up.
Or just bring up the question of heaven. There everyone knows God exists and has some kind of relationship with Him, are they all lessened by that knowledge? Are they unable to love Him properly because they know He is real?
@Wertbag99 obviously everyone knows that heaven exists! Dib, dib.
Which version of heaven? Strange that those who have claimed to have visited heaven during OOB experience create their expected version. I wonder why a timeless-spaceless entity seems to have human behaviour? No prizes for the answer.
As a former Christian For years I looked for god and it got to a point where I could no longer justify the reason for my beliefs. I had a honest conversation with myself and realized I had no good reason to believe anymore. So I began to investigate and I found Seth Andrew’s which lead to Aaron Ra, Matt Dillahunty and their way of thinking made so much sense while the teachings of religion was so unnecessary confusing. However Matt nor Seth or Ra changed my mind but they made me think. I changed my mind
That's great to hear. Even as an Igtheist/Atheist I still admit I could be wrong about anything. It takes a lot of courage and self reflection to do what you did.🖖
@@_Omega_WeaponThank you and I think I’m my opinion that if more people self reflect honestly then maybe real beneficial changes will be made. We could lie to everyone but we can’t lie to ourselves
You know they refuse to go by evidence
Were you a Christian? The Bible says that a Christian is someone who knows God. Of course, if you do not know Him, if you were never born again, then it 'makes sense' not to continue. Yet, will you assume that the Bible is in error over your own (forgive me) corrupt heart? Are we not all liars, needing the light that a perfectly moral God gives?
I will testify that all of the promises of the Bible (so far in my life) are true. For example, I know Christ, am 'seated in the heavenlies', and the 'Holy Spirit bears witness' with my spirit that I am a child of God. I have absolute certainty, while atheists place blind, unwarranted faith in their own understanding of life, its destiny, and purpose.
I hope that you are open to the reality that you, not the Bible, are in error. Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Somehow, you missed the heart, the very point, of the gospel. I hope you will make this right with God. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshilohFollow your own advice and test your own beliefs and assumptions. Starting with "the Bible says" because no it doesn't and it wouldn't matter if it did.
Matt, that is all so true. The 'relationship' crap is even worse than being a fan of a celebrity. More like a fan of a fictional character. 👍🏼💙💙💙🥰✌🏽
I always wondered at the remark about how 'one must have a personal relationship' with Jesus. When I was a Christian, I heard this all the time, and thought to myself, 'how the heck does someone do that?' Well, now I know, someone does NOT do this, they are only having that relationship with themselves, in their own minds.
As someone who has an actual shrine to a fictional character, I entirely agree.
Christianity is a fandom gone off the rails.
@@Fair-to-Middling
What was Jesus' relationship with his Father.
@@user-fq9ij4we4r Ask Maury. 🧬
Abrahamic god is not hiding. He just cannot exist. It’s just a fictional character evolved through the ages by ignorant believers.
Exactly. That’s why I think this whole hidden god analysis is moot on both sides. He ain’t hiding, he is imaginary.
So nothing created everything? Scientists still can’t figure out how to create a single cell and you believe it came about by chance from nothing?
I do not think it was ignorant believers.
@@l3eatalphal3eatalpha OK. Con men also.
Ok you want to go that way , ok.
Good luck in the next whatever !
Louisiana schools are now required to display the Ten Commandments in all classrooms, and public schools in Oklahoma are now teaching the Bible! I'd love a video on this major issue.
Louisiana teachers who aren't religious fanatics should simply claim they put up the poster but it's hiding out with God.
ALL school should teach the Bible.
I think the kids need to revolt and give m' hell!!!
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe Then all schools should teach The Lord of the Rings and The Wheel of Time.
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe
"ALL school should teach the Bible."
I agree .
Teach the Bible how to read and write, and then send it to Mars for an extended vacation.
A sophisticated apologist? That's a contradiction.
Each time someone tells me they met Jesus I would ask them what he looks like, but they never reply 😢
A white man, with blonde hair and blue eyes of course. That's what all middle eastern men look like 😀😀
Winner gets eternal praises. Loser gets eternal tortures... now, you dont get to choose if you play or not...
Winner becomes an eternal worshipping slave.
👻 "Boo! Here I am!"
CHECKMATE Atheists!
🤪
OooooOhhh... I'm convinced - where do I sign up?
@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2
Abandon your reasoned faculties and just accept me for no sufficiently good reason....... just because your soul needs saving, my child of Heaven.
@@LouisGedo hang on... I just have to pop off for a quick lobotomy, then I'm all yours!
Well that's proof enough for me
@@brenta2634
LOL
The most popular reason I get from theists for me not finding their particular god, is that I'm doing something wrong. It seems the only way to be right, is to find their god for the same reasons they did. It's a level of denial that I'll never understand.
It's hard for people to admit when they've been conned. It's easier to point at the atheist as being the problem.
God _USED_ to show up all over the place. He walked with Adam in the Garden, and actually made Adam and Eve's first set of clothing. He parted the Red Sea. He spoke to Moses and the 72 elders, and called to Moses to come up the mountain. God came down and got in an actual wrestling match with Jacob (and had to cheat to win, by dislocating Jacob's leg). He made the sun to stop moving across the sky for a whole day. When Jesus died, God opened graves and allowed famous dead people to walk around and interacted with the living.
And...then what? God retired? He got tired of celebrityhood?
I can hear it now, “Matt is searching for god.”
😎😂😃😄
yes the same way you'd expect find god while unclogging a toilet
I mean to some degree he is, strangely for all of them. If they want to show up they should call The Line, lots of people do it, you think God could once.
@@n0etic_f0xright? Like how Lucy popped up on Morgan Freeman's phone😂
That would be pretty wild.
"Olly Olly Oxen Jesus!" 😂
I thought Sasquatch was the hide-and-go-seek champion, but at least there's a few blurry photos of him.
I've had this conversation with my religious friends on many occasions and they always resort to a "look at the trees" argument. They think it's utterly hilarious that I somehow can't see God when "he's all around". Once pressed, you realize that their entire foundation is based on an internal feeling or an argument from incredulity because they don't understand or can't conceive of a secular explanation. It's the arrogance that troubles me. It's a crutch that holds people back because they are convinved that they have all the answers.
Arrogance is a good way to describe it, but for me it's the lying that kills me.
You should look into the Dunning Kruger effect. It's in full display here. You're just as absurd as your religious friends. You know a little bit so you develop arrogance. 85% of the mass in the universe is unexplained and invisible. Physics can entirely break down and mean nothing in certain instances. Particles can interact instantaneously at huge distances i.e faster than light. A little humility would go a long way.
You talk about God every time you suggest objective morals. He historically came to Earth and said here I am, then died and rose to flex it. This is history
@@domcruise274 are you responding to me or a different comment? I didn't say anything about objective morals. Even if God is the source, morality would still be subjective to your God's opinion.
@@PokrRat777 morality would be grounded in the unchanging nature of God.. it’s the only way you can explain the way you live your life as if certain morals are objective.
If there's a god why would he hide ? Wouldn't he want to show himself so we can start a relationship with him, so we can be saved ? I mean, we are his most precious creation right ?.Thats what the bible says, so why not show up ?
Something something "free-will" and stuff.
If I were the marketing consultant for a new religion I'd always advise them to make their God SILENT and INVISIBLE.
Those parameters create the much needed wiggle room to place the leader and/or high priests in between as the perfect spokesman for all of God's desires.
Odd , how very few believers ever question this aspect of the con.
@@FoursWithinSILENT and INVISIBLE - like a fart? Oh, I guess not, as that would be detectable: THE STENCH OF GODDDDD!
@@FoursWithin
"When inventing a god, the most important thing is to claim it is invisible, inaudible, and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise, people will become skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent, and does nothing."
@@epicofgilgamesh9964
Nice. Who wrote that ?
Pretty sure I have seen it before.
Apologists will probably say that God's theory of mind is beyond our ability to understand. But regardless of how mentally-advanced God is, if he understands our minds, he should know exactly what we would and wouldn't be convinced by, and chooses to not reveal himself in a convincing way to many people. Also, "God is beyond understanding" is little more than an admission that something doesn't make sense and someone can't explain it - you can use "beyond understanding" to explain away basically anything.
Or apologists will give one of the typical unconvincing responses to divine hiddenness.
If god is beyond understanding, how can they know enough to say he's beyond understanding?
It would be pure chaos, no one is able to identify it as anything, let alone god.
11:50 _Said, "Oh Lord Jesus, it's a fire!"_
The Sweet Brown Rule.
@@TheBirdGardenNB that woman's voice lives in my head, and it makes me smile every time.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 Have you googled her? She made a bunch of money off that mix. Good for her.
@@TheBirdGardenNB 100% agree that she should have.
That's a god-like beard Matt!
Seems more Darwinian. ;) 👍
Holy cow, i never put so much thought into hide and seek.
I stopped searching for mythical supernatural deities years ago.
Good for you, I’ve only just woken up to the BS . I’ve got some time to make up for and the rest of my life to live and love 🎉
Adult version of hide-and-seek? This reminded me of Monty Python’s Olympic Hide-and-Seek.
Oh and the 100m dash for people with no sense of direction.
The main draw card of God is a continued existence after death and a threat of a bad existence after death if we don't believe in God. Would people still believe in God if there was no offer of an eternal afterlife in heaven?
Every human ever has searched for a God any God but has never found even One but has invented many out of thin air!
D. B. Cooper has got to be one of the world champions of adult hide and seek
That was such a weird case... See also Lord Lucan
And Lord Voldermort 😅
God: "I want you to believe in me, or else I'll burn your skin off for eternity". Proceeds to author an authoritative tome about the universe in such a way that no sane person who read it would ever believe in God. Bit odd. Seems like it should be easier than this.
If I were the creator of this fuster cluck, I’d hide my face too!
A great analogy and something to think about in relation to perspectives changing through different stages of development
Mantracker with Terry Grant was a real hide-and-seek reality show, shot in Canada and America from 2006-12. Great show where the contestants (prey) are given a head start.
My father! The sun is my father, and the earth is my mother, and on her bosom I will recline.
very good approach explaining it all via theory of mind.
All through this I was thinking of the Monty Python "Olympic Hide and Seek" skit. Then you got to the "adult hide and seek" and it was soooo close to the MP skit.
I never had an imaginary friend. I am starting to wonder if that is why being introduced to religion failed, it seemed to be so ridiculous to me?
'God' is such a childish concept, basically, it's just Santa for adults..
As direct and insulting as this may be I must completely agree. I think most beleivers I know are simply immature.
@@Bronco541 You mean like Bernhard Riemann was?
7:55 In that case the other person knows you could have manipulated the boxes while he/she wasn't in the room. So the correct answer is the other person doesn't know.
Idk. I do think it would be creepy hearing God giggle. The only time I giggle is when I'm trying to scare children. I know this all says a bit too much about me, but I don't want to hear God giggle and I'll die on that hill.
The adult version of Hide-and-Seek is... basically any horror movie ever made! 😉
I thought of that crazy lady Sarah Boone 😳
I know you're dismissive of personal experience as proof for God, but I hear constant giggling every time I pass a closet.
Great presentation, Matt. You're voice is getting almost as silky smooth as Seth's.
How I understood it, Theory of Mind is the ability to think what someone else thinks and how he will react.
There's a brutal hide and seek variant engaged in by adults that we call "war".
The version of hide and seek that Monty Python showed was pretty serious stuff.
My cat would do this. He would hide under the couch or a table with a hanging tablecloth, but would forget to tuck his tail in. 😅
This was a good one. Really good.
The street lights came on. God is still up in the tree, determined not to give up his position. He stays there until he gets that weird/nervous feeling in his peepee. Then finally gives up and says, "wait up guys, im here!"
well the being invisible sort of gives him an unfair advantage
Perhaps God is the eternal cosmological version of the kid from “It’s A Good Life”.
Matt, what do you think, usually Christians what kind of God believe in? Something that can be located or mensurable? Or something that is out and above of all comprehensible compare that we know? Do you understand the second version? What do you think? (I hope I was clear, my main language is Hungarian)
4:52 new ringtone
I see jesus in my spaghetti 🍝 all the time. 😳
When you escape a religion, you have to yell "olly olly oxen free."
God is more elusive than Bigfoot. At least we have fuzzy obscured pictures of objects with a dash of face pareidolia.
i like thinking of god as a toddler giggling after someone finds him and runs over to hide somewhere else in like the laundry basket lol
Definitely
So far, God is winning at hide and seek, but has lost every game of Chess I’ve challenged him to.
Not related but at the end of the vid, your YT profile pic popped up. Although I have no idea who that fellow is...
Now, if there is a god which one is he ? Jesus,? Allah ? Brahama, ? Budha, ? Zeus,? Which one ?
None of the ones that you listed.
But there is one-》 the Great Pumpkin 🎃
@@alphaomega1351 Wwwooww, you'r right. 👍
His hiddenness would be fine if our alleged eternalities weren't on the line.
Just be thankful you have what you have.
@theboombody I'm thankful for what I have, but it's not an invisible sky wizard I'm thanking.
@@MasamiPhoenix Just be thankful for something more than your own self.
“Well we’ve looked under every rock but haven’t found God anywhere on Earth maybe he’s hiding in Outer Space somewhere or inside the Atom or maybe he’s been inside each and every one of us all along!” 😜🖕🫣
Good analogy
🦍 Bigfoot is a piker compared to God. 👻
Hiker
Very good!
I've met too many Boomers that seem to have that theory of mind you said only people under a certain age have.
I found god and he's in my head. lol.
God must be real, for who but god could be this good at hiding?
Thank goodness. I thought you had a real argument there. ;)
@@chinkasuyaro8983 From the callers I've heard on Matt's show, it could easily have been mistaken for one. ;)
He also hates playing tag, because he doesn't want anyone else to be it.
He won't find him
At least Hinduism is honest about this; a follower of Krishna once told me that God purposely plays hide-n-seek with humanity as a lover would with his beloved -- not to frustrate us but to heighten the romantic tension between him (Krishna) and his devotees. My response: This might all be, well-n-good upto a point. In any romantic relationship, foreplay, if it does not lead to a culmination will only lead to frustration and dissatisfaction. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a Hindu, but an atheist who lives in India.
The Bible is pretty clear that it wants people to actively seek God as well.
“My bf goes to another school.” “They don’t have cell phone reception nor Wi-Fi there so our romantic relationship is very tense.” 😅
@theboombody that's to cover up that he doesn't exist.
@@patelk464 Maybe. But I will always believe that life has inherent intangibles like duty and justice and things like that that exist as more than mere figments of the imagination or social constructs meant for prolonged survival and nothing else. Life is definitely about more than mere survival.
That kind of god is going to die alone when his abused lover gives up on him.
For an extra element we would try to get back to home base without being found by the seeker ….. kinda like sneaking into heaven with out god noticing 😂
the interesting question is how someone can even be shure they´ve found god. If there´s nothing to demonstrate to others, then how would one know it´s not just something funny their own mind did? Experiences of gods are common in all religions and when I ask a Christian or muslim if it´s possible to experience a nonexistent god, I just need to point to Hindus who experience their gods and are just as certain about that as Christians or muslims who make the same claim. So how would one know what they´ve experienced is real? I could point to many other things people have experienced that are most likely not real.
Faith is supposed to be the seeing glasses that can only be applied to feel [g]od or to see him indirectly. This is a big problem that I have with faith.
If it's ok to have a creator without a creator then it's also ok to have a universe without a creator.
🙏
For me if god existed, and thats a huge if he wouldnt be the hide and seek world champion
Peekebhoe, who's there? Nobody.
There is an adult version in Japan that is pretty creepy. “Hitori Kakurenbo”, “Alone Hide and Seek”.
Like the name implies, you play on your own. The idea is to summon a spirit and includes a really complex ritual. You play at home, using a plush toy that you fill with rice, then tie up with a red thread and sink in water. There are variations, usually a time limit to accomplish the steps- namely how long to soak the toy for- then you hide, and wait.
Instructions abound online and at least at one point, there were several forums discussing results and methods.
It spawned and entire series of horror movies, too.
Seems closer to god as the entire thing is about hyping yourself to detect creepiness. You’re alone, late at night, with the lights out, having gone through a ritual, then hiding in the dark and waiting.
It is almost certain you’ll feel spooked, especially if you’re already the kind of person who is likely to try this out.
Very interesting.
@@theboombody It's actually pretty interesting and the kind of thing anthropologists are bound to have a field day researching.
What I have yet to fully get is why anyone who believes this kind of thing actually works, would try it out. It is maybe a kind of morbid curiosity?
There is also- or was, at some point- a community so filming it and/or sharing the highlights of the experience might very well have factored it.
If a personal god exists then why does it play hide and go seek like it’s trying to beat BinLaden’s record.
I have the same relationship with god as I do with George R R Martin.
George is real . You can meet him at certain conventions. And he's a captivating writer.
This God fellow never shows up at any of his conventions. And his so called inspired writing is a damn snoozefest.
God the hidden fake...
So apt. Just like God, GRRM put out a bunch of books in 11 years, and then refused to show us anything else in the 13 years since.
@@noone3216 Also, obsessed with weiners.
@@RickReasonnz 😂😂😂
Is adult hide and seek paintball?
My real Dad is the MVP hide and seek champion, never been located.
Thank you so much Matt, for giving me god tee-heeing into the night.
I feel like God hiding forever and just being a passive observer is ridiculous what's his reason to? There's a reason why he's never been found, he ain't there.
Hasn't been found physically or mentally. Only spiritually. It's bizarre but real. Just like love.
Current quantum theory implies all consciousness derives from the same pool. So, yeah. It is a better theory then most.
Careful Matt, if you say Jurisdiction 3 times you invoke a sovereign citizen.
God is the go fuck himself champion for the chaos he couldn’t even solve in the world
Mr snuffleupagus
That is how I always described him like the father that went for some milk and smokes at the corner store one morning.
According to the theists who proselytize to me...
Their god is everywhere all the time...
Which makes no sense to me...
Because I neither feel nor see nor smell nor notice it's presence here nor anywhere I've ever been.
They can never explain why so many bad things happen every day.... While their deity sits back watching.
As human beings, we tend to see what we expect to see and not see what we don't expect to see. Whether one _wants_ to or _ought_ to see it isnt really part of the equation. If you start with the expectation of not seeing anything supernatural or miraculous because you don't believe in any such thing, it shouldn’t come as a shock that you don't encounter it. In fact, to one who finds the explanations that they're dreaming, being tricked, or something else, there will *always* be other plausible explanations. I think at least part of it depends on how amenable one is to the terms.
Some examples of this are the audio recordings in which some listeners hear "brainstorm" while others hear "green needle," and in which some people hear "Yanny" versus "Laurel;" and which phrase the listener hears can be influenced by priming one's expectation. "As Dr. Kevin Franck, director of audiology at Massachusetts Eye and Ear, told TIME in reference to the great Yanny in agreement. debate, what you hear 'all comes down to the brain.' He said, 'The fact that brains go in one way and some brains go in the other means that we’re all just wired a bit differently based on our experiences. The brain is built to turn messy signals into meaning,' he says. 'It just will not give you ambiguity' " (2020, Locker). There was also the viral white and gold versus black and blue dress (Wallisch, 2023). Another example of this type of phenomenon is the famous "body transfer illusion" (Ehrsson, Holmes, & Passingham, 2005). There's also the famous video of a moonwalking bear in a basketball game, and Henry Cavill, in Times Square being unnoticed while wearing a Superman shirt (Bacardi, 2016). These sorts of phenomena may help to explain why non-resistent atheists don't encounter the experiences, signs, and evidence that they seek. They have biases just like everyone else. It's within the realm of possibility that even if what they want to see were readily available, they wouldn't notice because they have already been primed by circumstances beyond their control to expect to _not_ find it.
For one to whom the possibilities that he or she is hallucinating, dreaming, insane, etc, are preferable, it may very well be that no amount evidence will ever be sufficient because they will likely gravitate to one of these other explanations so as to avoid being (perceived as) gullible. Peter Atkins, during his debate with astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross said, when asked what would convince him of the existence of a deity said, "If I were looking in the Bible for evidence...I would expect to see...that if there was literally an equation...that they discovered in the Bible..." but then backpedals with, "...I would probably think it was a forgery" (Atkins, 2018); when it is suggested that the stars were arranged to form the message, "Peter, please, believe in me," he responds, "I would put it down to madness;" and when it is explicitly stated that it sounds like there is nothing that would convince him, he replies, "to be honest, that's probably the case."
During a talk with Peter Boghossian, Richard Dawkins says:
"...even if there was this booming voice and the second coming in clouds of glory, the more probable explanation is that it's a hallucination, or a conjuring trick by David Copperfield, or something...I'm starting to think that nothing would [convince him that a deity exists]...which in a way goes against the grain because I've always paid lip service to the view that a scientist should change his mind when evidence is forthcoming..." (Dawkins, 2013).
Finally, Boghossian himself, during a Q and A says, that when asked by a friend if the message, "I am God. Believe in me" were written in the sky for everyone to see (and it were not a drug-induced hallucinations), would this be enough to convince him, he responded:
"For me, the answer to that would be 'no,' and it would be 'no' because...you'd have to be able to rule out alternative possibilities: time travelers, trickster alien cultures, etc. And...we can't do that...So, it couldn't be phenomenon. It couldn't be anything internal, right? It couldn't be a feeling state because people who have different God-beliefs have different feeling states..." (Boghossian, 2024).
References:
Atkins, P. [Premier Unbelievable?]. (2018, August 10). Atheist scientist's revealing answer to "could anything convince you God exists?". [Video]. TH-cam
Bacardi, F. (2016, March 16). Henry Cavill Goes Unrecognized in Times Square, Even Without Clark Kent's Glasses. E! News
Boghossian, P. [Peter Boghossian]. (2024, March 20). Peter Boghossian responds to a heckler: "I feel sorry for you.". [Video]. TH-cam
Dawkins, R. [Peter Boghossian]. (2013, November 7). Richard Dawkins in conversation with Peter Boghossian. [Video]. TH-cam
Ehrsson, H., Holmes, N. & Passingham, R. (2005, November 9). Touching a rubber hand: feeling of body ownership is associated with activity in multisensory brain areas. The Journal of Neuroscience. 25(45):10564-10573
Locker, M. (2020, July 30). ‘Green Needle’ or ‘Brainstorm'? A Puzzling Audio Clip Is Burning Up the Internet. Time
Wallisch, P. (2023, March 27). We finally know why people saw “the dress” differently. Slate
All that is true, and that's why we have science, which is explicitly designed to counter all the skewed results that come from our subjective expectations. And science hasn't turned up God either.
@@scotte4765
Science hasn't found the asserted distinction between the "absence" of belief in a proposition and the presence of belief in its negation, either. Yet, atheists continue to think that there is one.
@@truerealrationalist
If you start with the expectation of not seeing any leprechauns because you don't believe in leprechauns, then it shouldn't come as a surprise that you don't encounter leprechauns.
@MrMarcusIndia
Read my initial post again with its citations.
@@truerealrationalist
Ooh! The thing you copy/pasted included citations? Bully for you. Amd even it then it falls down at the simplesy of challenges, such as merely requoting your own words but replacing one fairytale monster for another.
Big Foot enters the chat
Playing Hide and Seek with God and with Heaven and Hell at stake is like the ultimate Carrot and Stick ever only there is no Carrot or Stick but we only imagine that there is! 😜
"For those of you who don't know what hide and seek is". Who doesn't know what hide and seek is lol. You would have had to have lived a very sad childhood not to know what hide and seek is.
He may be explaining it for the benefit of viewers from other cultures where it's not a common game or is known by some other name.
I am an atheist, but I understand that a theist can easily respond to this by saying that God only shows himself to those he considers worthy enough...
I think there are better ways to prove that God doesn't exist. Actually with their own starting point, that something cannot come from nothing. Logically, this only applies to something that is infinitely perfect and infinitely stable, such as a perfectly omniscient and omnipotent god. Inperfect things that are not infinitely stable can arise from imperfect nothing.
I could accept the existence of God more if he was described as an absentee landlord instead of the lurking, creeping, voyeur that they try to tell us only wants what is best for us.
i spent years playing “hide and seek” with the god version of myself through some weird version of eastern non dualism, thank god im an atheist now lol
Praise be! ;)-
Out of curiosity.. advaita vedanta?
@@noone3216 yes, that was a part of my “practice” at the time! although i didnt focus on it more than i did many other eastern practices i became familiar with. i took the route of doing too many psychedelics, listening to people like ram dass, which led me to an array of eastern theologies and ideas that i used to justify the existence of this game of hide and seek between my “higher self” and who i thought i was.
@@beherenow42 Completely relatable. To be honest, a lot of the philosophy of advaita vedanta helped get me through a *very* bad time in my life, so as a result I "followed" and studied it for almost a decade. I found the philosophy side of it incredibly interesting and some of it I would still say is a fairly accurate as far as our own personal experience goes. It's just a shame that it branches out from Hinduism, because I'd find the whole thing a lot more philosophically satisfying if it didn't all eventually lead to the conclusion of "therefore, Brahman".
Up to a certain point I can agree with the sentiment of "it's a philosophy, not not a religion, because nothing we're talking about requires faith in something you can't verify yourself", but then you get to "therefore, Brahman" and maya, and the whole no-faith-required thing goes out the window.
@@noone3216 yes i absolutely agree! thats the issue i found myself in, i was labelling my practice as a philosophy and treating like a religion lol. i do know what you mean though, i definitely think secular humanism and many non dualistic eastern ideologies have similar moral systems and i think they are incredibly beautiful. i definitely miss it sometimes, but now it just feels like secular humanism in a different skin lol. im very happy you were able to use advaita vedanta to get through those things, it helped me out a lot too :))
The more I consider theism the more I can't understand how we all got this far without a single coherent description of a what a god is and that everyone seems to just accept such lack of clarity.
I want to understand something , you said the universe shows an appearance of design , but design needs to be demonstrated , now one might argue that doesn't universe hints at a God or creator , even if in a very very very vage way ?? And if God exists and he's all powerfull and crazy worship me or I'll burn you type of God , wouldn't it be a pragmatic act to submit to him bcz I remember saying you can believe in a God but not worship him
"Divine Hiddenness" just seems like a poetic way of expressing that we have a concept of a deity in our heads but, for all practical intents and purposes, he is completely indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist at all...
I dislike such softball terms.
The God Debate tells it all.
What kind of a god wants to have a personal relationship by remaining invisible and unknowable so you are forced to create god by using your own imagination? That's stupid.