ALRIGHT GUYS, I'VE FINALLY UPDATED MY WEBSITE! You all can find the written summary of Iliad book 6 via this link :) I hope these help xx www.moaninc.co.uk/homers-iliad/book-6-summary
Thank you Erica ! At this point, your videos have become my no.1 source for recapping the iliad when i'm revising. They're genuinely so helpful while at thee same time being so entertaining so thank youuu
Dude thank you so much for this video series I am reading the Iliad right now for school and was having some trouble understanding, this is helping so much!!
Hector is definitely my favorite character too! He's the only ancient 'Greek' hero who feels kinda of like a modern hero insofar as he's ultimate a pretty good person in addition to be an amazing warrior.
I wonder if the meeting between Diomedes and Glaucus and their trading of armor started the tradition even to this day on the football field or soccer field to trading jerseys...
Hector is absolutely great and the part with his family is ❤. But the heartbreaking moment for me starts with the whole idea of giving the mantle and promising sacrifices to Athena so she stops Diomedes, knowing full well that she doesn't give a crap and moreover she is the one behind it. We are just playthings fot the gods.
16.38 - 20.08 Some thoughts on the sad scene between Hector, his wife Andromache and their son Astyanax/Scamandrios, in which we learn that Andromache's first family, her parents and brothers, are all dead, most of them slain by Achilles, and she (rightly) fears that the same fate will overtake her second family with Hector. They know this means, as customarily happened to the women of a conquered city, Andromache herself will become some Greek warrior's 'war prize', slave. Then Hector either lies to cheer Andromache up or he fails fully to accept the implications and imagines a glorious future for their son that the original audience, already familiar with the wider legends of the Trojan War, would probably have known was not to be. 1. I have always assumed that Homer's original Greek audience were proud of their ancestors' famous victory in the Trojan War and cheering for the Greeks to win, slay the Trojans and conquer the city. In those pagan days the normal assumption was that a good man did good to his friends and harm to his enemies. Yet I wonder what they would have thought hearing the above scene; did they still want the Greeks to win, knowing that Andromache, having already lost one family, will lose another, and be carried off to spend probably the rest of her life as a slave? 2. Hector is what, once the Greeks started writing plays, would be considered a tragic hero, a powerful man destroyed by a fault in his character. In the Iliad, Andromache says Hector could choose to fight defensively, putting himself at less risk. However; Hector refuses because he could not stand the shame, since people would think him a coward, even though he knows that the outcome for himself and Andromache of his going out boldly to seek battle will be the very fate they fear. He has presumably been brought up to value his reputation as a warrior over even his own life and family, which arguably he should have put first. 3. I had read this scene before and always remembered it as a scene involving three people: Hector, Andromache and their little son. However, the recent translator of Homer, Professor Emily Wilson, who I think Erica interviews in another video, pointed out in her Introduction to her translation that there is a fourth person present, who we tend to forget because she does not say anything. That is the slave woman (many translations soften this to 'maid' or 'servant') who assists Andromache by carrying Asytanax/Scamandrios. As a slave, she is not important enough in the plot for Homer to tell us what she is thinking, including, being already a slave herself, how she feels hearing Hector and Andromache discuss how terrible it will be if Andromache becomes a slave. Indeed, her silent presence may foreshadow Andromache's own fate. Anyone reading this who agrees, disagrees or has any other thoughts about any of the above is welcome to Reply to this post accordingly.
God I love Hektor. And what makes his family scene even more upsetting is that the original audience would have had the dramatic irony of knowing that this is in fact the last time they all see eachother 😔, and…. (spoiler, but not in the Iliad) his baby son is going to be dead before the war is over 😩 NGL, I have cried while teaching this.
One think to mention is that most of the Trojans will be "why the fuck are we fighting so Paris can keep Helen is Paris himself isn't even here." On top of that, most of the soldiers on the Trojan side aren't actually Trojans, but their allies from some towns quite far far away. Most had never been in Troy before. And they are all dying on the battlefield so Paris can keep the wife he stole, namely Helen. But Paris literally fucked off after Melanus gave him a beating. That's also what Paris says himself somewhere. And then he indirectly laments how he is shit at fighting and that all a man can do is fight according to their ability, because no man, no matter how great a fighter they are, or are not, can fight beyond that.
The Greeks, while they can't yet conquer Troy itself, raid and destroy other towns in the area, gaining supplies, loot and slaves. I don't know which came first: do the Greeks raid these other local towns to because they support Troy, or do they support Troy because the Greeks raid then?
the wine part it is because the Trojans or just in that time in history there was not a lot of drinkable water and they have to drink wine for there thirst and when they eat
They probably, as in later Greek and Roman times, mostly drank very diluted wine, as neat wine would not be very thirst quenching, especially under a hot Mediterranean sun. Alcohol being a disinfectant, mixing some wine into the water before drinking made it safer. The acidity (or something) of vinegar had the same effect, so travellers often carried a flask of vinegar to mix with water they were going to drink to kill off any germs in it. Thus, in the Bible, when Jesus says 'I thirst' on the Cross, his disciples pass a sponge 'soaked in vinegar' to him on the end of a stick. This will mean water mixed with a little vinegar.
2.13 Strange that although Menelaos is the one who has more personal reason to hate the Trojans, as they stole his beautiful wife Helen, it is his brother Agamemnon who is the more merciless to them, wanting to kill everyone, slaying even the Trojan from a wealthy family Adrestus, whom Menelaos had been considering taking alive for ransom. (Which is not to say that Menelaos is a humanitarian. He only considers sparing Adrestus' life because the latter has a wealthy father who will pay a ransom to get him back alive. Presumably any poor men from the enemy side whom Menelaos encountered on the battlefield, he just killed. However, at least he is open to negotiation from wealthy Trojans who want to live.) I think it is at this point in the original poem that Agamemnon makes a blood curdling statement that he intends that all Trojan males must die all at once, even the foetuses still inside their mothers' wombs. It is not clear, though, if this is just heat of the moment exaggeration, or how Agamemnon would carry out this horrible threat, or whether he ever actually does so. Still, he is not an easy character to like, almost a villain to many modern readers, although apparently still a respected figure to Ancient Greek audiences. Agamemnon's murder by his wife Clytemnestra when he gets home from the war seems to have been generally regarded in those days as a shocking crime.
Someone should turn this into a series like Game of Thrones and use your summaries to influence the screenplay. Or have you write it - if you do that sort of thing.
Didn't Ares have a son who was also called Diomedes? Though this would have been before the Trojan War, since I'm thinking of the Diomedes who owned the horrible mares that Heracles had to capture.
The Iliad mentions Philoctetes in Book 2. He is the guy who kills Paris but was also a companion of Hercules I think. Maybe there are just multiple Diomedes' like there are multiple Ajax's.
Correct me if Im wrong . Artemis was the only god alowed to kill pregnant women , and Achiles took "a priceless ransom" from Andremaches' mother. Id rather be wrong . Achiles was a shit
A thorough reading of the Iliad clearly shows the unique greatness of Achilles, not merely as the greatest warrior/fighter/athlete but most importantly as the one who questions war and war code, who is able to say kind words to Priam and even, unique among epic heroes, to give his own life for love. A cosmic, unreachable hero / man.
ALRIGHT GUYS, I'VE FINALLY UPDATED MY WEBSITE! You all can find the written summary of Iliad book 6 via this link :) I hope these help xx www.moaninc.co.uk/homers-iliad/book-6-summary
Ur channel is such a w, really helping me through the iliad
🫶🏼‼️
Thank you Erica ! At this point, your videos have become my no.1 source for recapping the iliad when i'm revising. They're genuinely so helpful while at thee same time being so entertaining so thank youuu
This makes me so happy 🥹 Thank you for leaving this comment 😭
Dude thank you so much for this video series I am reading the Iliad right now for school and was having some trouble understanding, this is helping so much!!
🥰 you are so so welcome ✨
Hector is definitely my favorite character too! He's the only ancient 'Greek' hero who feels kinda of like a modern hero insofar as he's ultimate a pretty good person in addition to be an amazing warrior.
AND A FAMILY MAN 🥺🥲
What about Polydamas?
this is my fav book in the iliad right now!! also I love hector 💘
Hector’s a cutie 🥺
I wonder if the meeting between Diomedes and Glaucus and their trading of armor started the tradition even to this day on the football field or soccer field to trading jerseys...
… I have no idea if there’s any connection at all 😂
Hector is absolutely great and the part with his family is ❤.
But the heartbreaking moment for me starts with the whole idea of giving the mantle and promising sacrifices to Athena so she stops Diomedes, knowing full well that she doesn't give a crap and moreover she is the one behind it.
We are just playthings fot the gods.
Love Hector ✊
Who doesn’t 🥺
This is a great video to end my night shift
Can you tell me about book 6 between Hector, Helen and Paris, by hospitality. I have search about this 🙏🙏♥️❤️ thanks for sharing this video
Gotta love hector
It’s hard not to
16.38 - 20.08 Some thoughts on the sad scene between Hector, his wife Andromache and their son Astyanax/Scamandrios, in which we learn that Andromache's first family, her parents and brothers, are all dead, most of them slain by Achilles, and she (rightly) fears that the same fate will overtake her second family with Hector. They know this means, as customarily happened to the women of a conquered city, Andromache herself will become some Greek warrior's 'war prize', slave. Then Hector either lies to cheer Andromache up or he fails fully to accept the implications and imagines a glorious future for their son that the original audience, already familiar with the wider legends of the Trojan War, would probably have known was not to be.
1. I have always assumed that Homer's original Greek audience were proud of their ancestors' famous victory in the Trojan War and cheering for the Greeks to win, slay the Trojans and conquer the city. In those pagan days the normal assumption was that a good man did good to his friends and harm to his enemies.
Yet I wonder what they would have thought hearing the above scene; did they still want the Greeks to win, knowing that Andromache, having already lost one family, will lose another, and be carried off to spend probably the rest of her life as a slave?
2. Hector is what, once the Greeks started writing plays, would be considered a tragic hero, a powerful man destroyed by a fault in his character. In the Iliad, Andromache says Hector could choose to fight defensively, putting himself at less risk. However; Hector refuses because he could not stand the shame, since people would think him a coward, even though he knows that the outcome for himself and Andromache of his going out boldly to seek battle will be the very fate they fear.
He has presumably been brought up to value his reputation as a warrior over even his own life and family, which arguably he should have put first.
3. I had read this scene before and always remembered it as a scene involving three people: Hector, Andromache and their little son.
However, the recent translator of Homer, Professor Emily Wilson, who I think Erica interviews in another video, pointed out in her Introduction to her translation that there is a fourth person present, who we tend to forget because she does not say anything. That is the slave woman (many translations soften this to 'maid' or 'servant') who assists Andromache by carrying Asytanax/Scamandrios. As a slave, she is not important enough in the plot for Homer to tell us what she is thinking, including, being already a slave herself, how she feels hearing Hector and Andromache discuss how terrible it will be if Andromache becomes a slave. Indeed, her silent presence may foreshadow Andromache's own fate.
Anyone reading this who agrees, disagrees or has any other thoughts about any of the above is welcome to Reply to this post accordingly.
God I love Hektor. And what makes his family scene even more upsetting is that the original audience would have had the dramatic irony of knowing that this is in fact the last time they all see eachother 😔, and…. (spoiler, but not in the Iliad) his baby son is going to be dead before the war is over 😩
NGL, I have cried while teaching this.
See this is why I couldn’t teach this book, I’d just be like “BUT WAIT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND!!!” 🥺😭 Props to you for actually making it through! 😢
One think to mention is that most of the Trojans will be "why the fuck are we fighting so Paris can keep Helen is Paris himself isn't even here." On top of that, most of the soldiers on the Trojan side aren't actually Trojans, but their allies from some towns quite far far away. Most had never been in Troy before. And they are all dying on the battlefield so Paris can keep the wife he stole, namely Helen. But Paris literally fucked off after Melanus gave him a beating. That's also what Paris says himself somewhere. And then he indirectly laments how he is shit at fighting and that all a man can do is fight according to their ability, because no man, no matter how great a fighter they are, or are not, can fight beyond that.
The Greeks, while they can't yet conquer Troy itself, raid and destroy other towns in the area, gaining supplies, loot and slaves. I don't know which came first: do the Greeks raid these other local towns to because they support Troy, or do they support Troy because the Greeks raid then?
the wine part it is because the Trojans or just in that time in history there was not a lot of drinkable water and they have to drink wine for there thirst and when they eat
They probably, as in later Greek and Roman times, mostly drank very diluted wine, as neat wine would not be very thirst quenching, especially under a hot Mediterranean sun. Alcohol being a disinfectant, mixing some wine into the water before drinking made it safer.
The acidity (or something) of vinegar had the same effect, so travellers often carried a flask of vinegar to mix with water they were going to drink to kill off any germs in it. Thus, in the Bible, when Jesus says 'I thirst' on the Cross, his disciples pass a sponge 'soaked in vinegar' to him on the end of a stick. This will mean water mixed with a little vinegar.
I'm reading the Fagles Penguin Deluxe edition. Which version is your favorite?
2.13 Strange that although Menelaos is the one who has more personal reason to hate the Trojans, as they stole his beautiful wife Helen, it is his brother Agamemnon who is the more merciless to them, wanting to kill everyone, slaying even the Trojan from a wealthy family Adrestus, whom Menelaos had been considering taking alive for ransom.
(Which is not to say that Menelaos is a humanitarian. He only considers sparing Adrestus' life because the latter has a wealthy father who will pay a ransom to get him back alive. Presumably any poor men from the enemy side whom Menelaos encountered on the battlefield, he just killed. However, at least he is open to negotiation from wealthy Trojans who want to live.)
I think it is at this point in the original poem that Agamemnon makes a blood curdling statement that he intends that all Trojan males must die all at once, even the foetuses still inside their mothers' wombs. It is not clear, though, if this is just heat of the moment exaggeration, or how Agamemnon would carry out this horrible threat, or whether he ever actually does so.
Still, he is not an easy character to like, almost a villain to many modern readers, although apparently still a respected figure to Ancient Greek audiences. Agamemnon's murder by his wife Clytemnestra when he gets home from the war seems to have been generally regarded in those days as a shocking crime.
Great summary again. Hector's a good man and Helen should have already murdered Paris. 😆
big mood.
Even Madeline Miller said she loves Hector.
YOU CAN’T NOT LOVE HIM IT’S IMPOSSIBLE
Someone should turn this into a series like Game of Thrones and use your summaries to influence the screenplay. Or have you write it - if you do that sort of thing.
tysm for saving my literature grade 🙏 I have an exam tmro 🤣
I hope it goes well!
@@MoAnInc tysm it did😅
i stan hektor
Don’t we all 🥹
Didn't Ares have a son who was also called Diomedes? Though this would have been before the Trojan War, since I'm thinking of the Diomedes who owned the horrible mares that Heracles had to capture.
The Iliad mentions Philoctetes in Book 2. He is the guy who kills Paris but was also a companion of Hercules I think. Maybe there are just multiple Diomedes' like there are multiple Ajax's.
Reading and loving this classic, I loved discovering your channel, great content, but will you ban me if I say I hated Diomedes? Sorry... XD
So SO tempted to block you 👿😂😭
Why do you hate Diomedes? Does he do something worse than the other, mostly ruthless, warriors?
Nooo not my boy Hector 😢
🥺🥺🥺
I didn't know he was going to die. Thanks. 😠😞
It’s a 2,000 year old story 🤷🏻♀️
Actually, we are all going to die, but the Trojans sooner than some of the Greeks.
I love you
You are Russel brands daughter
No, Erica doesn't have Russell Brand's Beard, and I can't see her making a video with Ed Milliband
Correct me if Im wrong . Artemis was the only god alowed to kill pregnant women , and Achiles took "a priceless ransom" from Andremaches' mother. Id rather be wrong . Achiles was a shit
A thorough reading of the Iliad clearly shows the unique greatness of Achilles, not merely as the greatest warrior/fighter/athlete but most importantly as the one who questions war and war code, who is able to say kind words to Priam and even, unique among epic heroes, to give his own life for love. A cosmic, unreachable hero / man.
Actually, you're devastatingly wrong about Achilles.
@@alecvillavilla9978 If you believe this you are so wildley different from me , you may me right . I doubt it.
@@alecvillavilla9978 At best , at the end of it all he became slightly human . You cant hold him as a Hero , cos he wasnt one.
@@woppite2932woman unable to comprehend ancient text by the values of a society that is not her own.
You made the Iliad gayer than I thought imaginable.
Not this part, surely?