In the Show Miami Vice, The Boss Calderon hired the Hitman Ludovici Armstrong. Cops said he was a pro because only a pro would carry appendix back then 😅
Absolutely refreshing hearing this. I have been in martial arts my whole life key word being martial, the art form comes from the flow of violent movements with an intended violent result. While I have been in my fair share of fights I have never been in a gunfight and pray I never find myself in one. Mindset is the most important aspect right with the skills, tactics, and gear to back it up. If you are not mentally and spiritually prepared to do violence to another human being all of the skills mean nothing. I enjoy your no bullshit approach and your matter of fact personality. Stay safe and God bless.
When I did IDPA I never cared about the time and I pocketed my magazines. Really used cover and did what I could within the rules to make it realistic. And if there was movement across a hostile field of fire, I moved even if I was not hitting the targets. The better shooters had this sort of extremely slow motion waltz that allow them to his targets more readily when in motion.
Competitive shooting will definitely make you a better shooter, but it definitely doesn't make you a "gunfighter." That said, being a better shooter will definitely make you a better gunfighter. I view IDPA in particular as providing you with some very good opportunities to put your shooting to the test in a more "tactical" context, especially now that they've added appendix carry to events. Bob Vogel, who was a SWAT guy for years, competed in IDPA for a reason, and you can bet he would smoke most high-level cartels guys in a room. There's also a reason why high-level units with a larger training budget bring in guys like Taran, Vogel, and Ben Stoeger to help advance the shooting skills of team guys. Our high-speed SOF units in particular have become much better at shooting as a result. I'm of the mindset that sporting events help to evolve skills and technique in an adrenalized state, so they are of tremendous value. But the problem is that too many people these days believe that it will adequately prepare you for a gunfight. This same mindset has unfortunately befallen the martial arts community as well, especially in the BJJ space.
It makes me think if certain aspects of Army vehicle gunnery can be applied to rifle/pistol shooting. -total target exposure time counts down, and if you don't kill all targets in time, the entire engagement is failed -targets are scored based on how long it took to kill, along that constant time, minus the time you were in cover. Time applies to all presented targets equally -so if it's 15 seconds in, i get out of cover for 2 seconds to kill, that 15sec is subtracted from the 17sec kill time, for a 2sec subtraction of points -those 2sec where i was exposed for target 1 applies to target 2. So if i take 3sec to kill t2, that previous 2sec is added to the 3sec, giving a 5sec subtraction of points -must score 70 (time is converted to points) on all targets to pass the engagement. Total score is total passed engagements, and the total points from all engaments. [8/10 with 790 points] > [7/10 with 810 points] because each failed engagement represents the enemy killing you The point is to reward being in cover, and to value continuous tactical success for many individual engagements, over just the overall score. There certainly is gameism in the real thing, but it's still better
Great video, and very true, methinks. In my teens I trained learning an authentic non-watered down Japanese martial art. Against my better judgment and out of pure curiosity, I took a judo lesson - knowing that at this point it had been turned into a sport. Many of the throws were very similar in their concept, but they included one or two extra steps for the sole reason of not severely injuring your opponent. I was not willing or able to untrain my self to accommodate this - I had no desire to erase the instinctual techniques that had been trained into me. It WAS a valuable lesson though!
When the Japanese Government wanted to adopt a martial art for their police/military forces, they had competitions between the top "authentic non-watered down Japanese martial arts", and Judo. The Judokas wiped the floor with everyone. Turns out, that dudes who lift weights, spar/grapple daily, get conditioning, work on their flexibility, and work on the fundamentals of fighting (takedowns and submissions) will beat dudes who don't spar full force, and who only theorize about breaking fingers and poking out eyes in half assed slow motion movements. Also, there isn't a single "extra step" added to Judo throws as you said. Judo HAS been watered down though, but only in the sense that it has stopped certain throws from being used in competition. A sentiment we'd probably agree on.
As Gabe said, to shoot more accurately and faster. Those guys ALSO extensively train in individual, team, and small unit tactics that do not apply to a match
I spent over 20 years running around with the “cool guys” in the “tactical” community and only recently started shooting competition in IPSC/USPSA. When it comes to speed and accuracy, even a “B” class (mid level) shooter will outperform the best of the tier 1 teams guys I’ve seen. Most of the animus I’ve see from the tactical community towards the competition bros is because it’s really humbling for a career SWAT or teams guy to get smoked by a bunch of dudes with absolutely no “real” experience. The learning opportunities they pass up on solely because of their own pride and arrogance is really unfortunate. Don’t skip “leg day”…
Practice of any kind I'd always good. Competitions are nice too, they induce some stress. It's similar to sparring in Kempo. Your mind set is the difference.
Exactly! combat shooting is not the same as competition shooting. Comp shooters are great, however some of the safety rules or safety procedures forced on comp shooters go directly against some combat tactics.
Too true. IPSC and the rest of sport shooting will give you some practice in handling and fast shooting, but will get you in the completely wrong frame of mind to apply in a real fight.
You definitely miss a few things about competitive shooting. How do you induce a kind of stress that compares to being in a " gunfight " ? Competitive shooting definitely helps train that by the stress of shooting a stage and competing in a match. Second it helps you learn how to do things extremely fast shooting, moving and gun manipulation. It is a test of you how you act or react under pressure. As a combat infantry veteran and carry opic's uspsa grandmaster I will guarantee the skills you build and doing these competitive events will directly transfer over.
Based reporting by Gabe, in the movie Collateral the scene where Tom Cruises breifcase was taken and the shoot out with the two homeys looked like realistic street combat was these tactics accurate.
I think people confuse being a good shooter in competition using solid, trained and burned in fundamentals to being a good shooter in a self defense context using solid, trained and burned in fundamentals. Both are good shooters. What’s different is the application of tactics that the good shooter uses to come out on top of the situation they are in. My opinion is that training to shoot your gun using the fundamentals of shooting accurately and quickly for competition CAN translate over to a self defense situation. But effective self defense shooting MUST include different tactics. Good shooting is good shooting. It’s just the application of tactics to different situations. If that makes any sense. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
I don't think anyone views Sport Shooting as a direct translation for "da streetz". The same way people don't view MMA as a "street" martial art. However, the fundamentals of striking and grappling, speed, precision, timing, balance, movement, comfortability, strength, conditioning, etc you develop in MMA will not hold you back if you ever had to use your hands to defend yourself. If anything, it will help you immensely. The same can be said of competition shooting. Gunfighting is so dynamic (the environment, weapons, situation, etc), that all you can do is apply principles to it and hope for the best. However, the act of shooting quickly and accurately is not principle based, but instead hard skills that come with the type of training typically associated with sport shooting. The ultimate reality is, that one doesn't need to be as good as a competition shooter to survive a gunfight. Out of tens of thousands of documented CCW/Civilian home/self-defense cases... 99% of the people winning those have ZERO training. Neither tacticool nor sport based. Guns are very deadly and tend to resolve most situations in a few shots. Due to the nature of firearms being so deadly even in untrained hands, I'd agree that teaching students' tactical principles is going to be better than teaching them hard skills that can take years to develop. However, if you're trying to push it to the next level (as a lot of people are) ... There's only so much you can do that's tactical/principle based, and the next level is going to have to be hard skills/competition/training, since that cannot be developed in classes, theory, or study.
You make my case sir - "There's only so much you can do that's tactical/principle based". Actually TACTICS is not a discussion/classroom topic. It is as hands on as grappling. Sadly, very few people understand it or how to teach it. But it can be taught, just as timing and maneuver can be taught. Then you say, "...and the next level is going to have to be hard skills". I agree with that, but not competition. Anything to train or do habitually you will keep with you. You cannot say, well...on the range I do this and on the street I do that. Training scars exist and I see them in every single class. The hard skills include moving while drawing and shooting in such a dynamic manner that it would be deemed unsafe by range monitors. Working a 360 degree world where there is no "180 line". Everything is downrange and the "targets" are not steel or cardboard, but other men trying to shoot you. That type of training is quite safe albeit a bit grueling. But its not something you are going to get a trophy for, and it can't be made into a sport or a game.
@@suareztactics I think I understand what you're saying. You want people to practice the tactics to the point of them being second nature. I agree with that. I hope to take some classes from Suarez Int and get more educated on these topics. In regard to training scars from competition, I don't see how it's possible to get that from competitions like IPSC/USPSA. One doesn't train to unload and show clear, it's a conscious and slow decision done after you finish your actual exercise. No different than unloading your gun yourself at your own discretion. Perhaps if unloading and showing clear was part of the timed event, then I can see this actually happening. In regard to Jim Zubiena, that's a disinformation myth that started in Arfcom and has spread like wildfire in all the tactical circles. Mr.Zubiena and others who worked on that scene have been interviewed and have all stated that the unloading of the pistol was done on purpose. It had nothing to do with him being unable to perform the scene, the scene actually called for it. It was supposed to be unloaded on camera so that as he's running away from the crime, no one could run up to the pistol and use it against him, at least not quickly. He did however have to do the take 7 times because he wasn't used to shooting with gloves, and the gloves kept snagging the draw. It didn't prevent him from drawing the pistol, but it didn't look as smooth so they did it 7 times for the smoothest take. I've been to A LOT of practical shooting based classes and training where we run hot ranges. Opposite of USPSA ranges where you're supposed to unload and show clear. In none of them did I or anyone else accidentally unload and show clear. And this is because most of our practice would take multiple days if we're constantly unloading and showing clear after every string of fire. As a matter of fact, I see the opposite. Meaning that without a range officer constantly nagging us to "unload and show clear", 99% of us will naturally holster our loaded pistols.
When practicing for practical shooting, you almost never unload between reps. The VAST majority of your training does not involve unloading and showing clear.
Ok, so I listened to the entire video so as to not pass early judgement and I don't like to beat up on fellow guntubbers. The people that know, know that this is a common opinion held by self defense instructors and police that don't compete on a high level. That fact is the shooters that delve deeply into both worlds of training, Massad Ayoob for example say that competitive shooting is essential to be all you can be in the self defense department. "A gun fight is a competition and your life is the prize" says Massad Ayoob. There is NO WAY you can come close to the training stress you get by traveling across the country to compete in a championship match, to wait your turn to get one attempt at each stage while going up against the best shooters in your class and division. All this after investing many 1000s of dollars and hours in advancing your training to beat rivals that you are emotionally invested in defeating. After you train hard and compete hard for a few years your default lower brain shooting habits evolve into always seeing sights and seeing what you want to shoot even under intense stress, malfunction etc. You have experiences where you watch your body shoot the stage and feel like an observer. Your perception of time is permanently changed so that fast things seem slow to you. Regular training with your carry firearm and equipment for self defense is essential as well to have a well rounded group of self defense skills. But to never advance your competency with competition as well to be all you can be in self defense is self defeating. I think you should try shooting some local matches in your area. You will learn things you never knew you needed to learn about shooting.
“The tactics from competitive shooting don’t transfer to the street.” No kidding, 10 on 1 isn’t going to work out? I would love to see you and Matt Pranka have this discussion.
USPSA/IDPA/PCSL are fun but they are not training or practice. Personally they are an important supplement to my dry fire, live fire practice, and my mental development but not a substitute for what you need to do to dominate in the real world.
Competitive shooting is the new crossfit. A great concept turned into dogma. I'm not against competitive shooting, in fact I train with a competitive shooter and learned some good stuff from him, however he has a very skewed view of shooting, and as a Marine who has been in real gun fights, I bring something to the table also. What's funny is that I'm open to some of the things he is teaching, but his street isn't a two way street, even though he knows I have an actual real background with experience he tends to brush off any concerns I have. I haven't been going to that particular range as much.
Being a Marine means nothing, which is why I don't bring it up myself (with the exception of showing how meaningless it is). When I was in the Corps I knew plenty of fellow Infantry dudes who saw combat, and most of it amounted to shooting at blobs from hundreds of yards away, not knowing if you hit said blob, and hearing bullets whiz past your head while you're in a ditch or behind a wall. I knew one ghetto ass Marine who killed two enemy combatants in Iraq, I asked him for the details and he said himself he just "point shooted" when he accidentally came across two hadjis. Something that takes no skill and any other Marine (or civilian) would have been capable of doing, yet plenty of dudes hopped up on Rambo movies will think of him as a gunfighting master. Combat experience doesn't mean jack when it comes to shooting skills. If a civil war breaks out, perhaps those skills overseas (small unit tactics, radio, etc) might start to matter. But currently what most people do overseas doesn't translate to what a civilian experiences in defensive encounters. Carrying an M16A4, a kevlar helmet, plate carrier, and being part of a fireteam does not translate over to the needs of Johnny and his G19 appendix carry.
All do respect you are wrong about practical shooting. The skills you learn in completive shooting, i.e. drawing, indexing, reloading,, learning target focus, and weapon manipulation carry over into the streets. Law enforcement is slowly changing from the red shirt polo LEO Inbred firearms Instructor training to practical shooting skills. Ill take four Grand Masters taught CBQ for a week and they would smoke any tactical team. Shooting is shooting and having the hard skills to deliver wins the day and the gunfight.
I have not competed in decades but if this is true, it's a blanket condemnation of current combat shooting match designers. Match design CAN force you to learn realistic skills. Ranges should never exceed 10m and only rarely exceed 5m, all shooting should be done from a concealed carry start. No stage of fire should last longer than 1.5 seconds, unless you're moving or using cover and even then, should not last longer than 3 seconds. That's just too damned long to be exposed to enemy fire. If I had to go into a fight and could only have pistols, I'd much rather have Rob Leatham than the typical cop, even if he HAS been thru your classes.
@@suareztactics Serious question, there's a lot of people who have been in multiple gunfights, especially in the LEO side of things, where they basically shot at criminals who were reaching for a gun, or had a knife and were charging from far away. Very rarely are OIS's situations where it's a fair fight and it's two guys shooting at each other with equal cover and concealment between them and the winner is decided based on shooting skill. (and it shouldn't of course, real life isn't a Hollywood movie, the importance is survival). But with that being said, what skills are you looking for here? The ability to decide to kill a human being in an instant? Because if so, that's entirely up to the individual's mental ability and not predicated on training. If the skill you're looking for is moving to cover and concealment while engaging the threat, most competition guys know this. They are not going to stand there and "make ready", as the bad guy is making a move lol.
@@UrbanDefenseSystems 1). Tactics (street tactics not match tactics, 2). Predisposition to aggression, 3). Timing (taking initiative and not waiting), and last of all is 4). Shooting skills. That is my opinion based on my prior experience and in training gunfighters since 1995. If sport shooting is your jam, great...enjoy it...have fun...win those medals. In my opinion, other than the last element (shooting skills), they will not provide any of the other elements. Where can you get that stuff? In force on force drills and training...but that has zero to do with cool guns, and sport shooting.
In the Show Miami Vice, The Boss Calderon hired the Hitman Ludovici Armstrong. Cops said he was a pro because only a pro would carry appendix back then 😅
Absolutely refreshing hearing this. I have been in martial arts my whole life key word being martial, the art form comes from the flow of violent movements with an intended violent result. While I have been in my fair share of fights I have never been in a gunfight and pray I never find myself in one. Mindset is the most important aspect right with the skills, tactics, and gear to back it up. If you are not mentally and spiritually prepared to do violence to another human being all of the skills mean nothing. I enjoy your no bullshit approach and your matter of fact personality. Stay safe and God bless.
When I did IDPA I never cared about the time and I pocketed my magazines. Really used cover and did what I could within the rules to make it realistic. And if there was movement across a hostile field of fire, I moved even if I was not hitting the targets. The better shooters had this sort of extremely slow motion waltz that allow them to his targets more readily when in motion.
Competitive shooting will definitely make you a better shooter, but it definitely doesn't make you a "gunfighter." That said, being a better shooter will definitely make you a better gunfighter.
I view IDPA in particular as providing you with some very good opportunities to put your shooting to the test in a more "tactical" context, especially now that they've added appendix carry to events. Bob Vogel, who was a SWAT guy for years, competed in IDPA for a reason, and you can bet he would smoke most high-level cartels guys in a room.
There's also a reason why high-level units with a larger training budget bring in guys like Taran, Vogel, and Ben Stoeger to help advance the shooting skills of team guys. Our high-speed SOF units in particular have become much better at shooting as a result.
I'm of the mindset that sporting events help to evolve skills and technique in an adrenalized state, so they are of tremendous value. But the problem is that too many people these days believe that it will adequately prepare you for a gunfight. This same mindset has unfortunately befallen the martial arts community as well, especially in the BJJ space.
Growing up in NYC taught me that, in general living life, that in the street there are no rules.
EXCELLENT. IDEO Gabriel !! 100% in agreement.
It makes me think if certain aspects of Army vehicle gunnery can be applied to rifle/pistol shooting.
-total target exposure time counts down, and if you don't kill all targets in time, the entire engagement is failed
-targets are scored based on how long it took to kill, along that constant time, minus the time you were in cover. Time applies to all presented targets equally
-so if it's 15 seconds in, i get out of cover for 2 seconds to kill, that 15sec is subtracted from the 17sec kill time, for a 2sec subtraction of points
-those 2sec where i was exposed for target 1 applies to target 2. So if i take 3sec to kill t2, that previous 2sec is added to the 3sec, giving a 5sec subtraction of points
-must score 70 (time is converted to points) on all targets to pass the engagement. Total score is total passed engagements, and the total points from all engaments. [8/10 with 790 points] > [7/10 with 810 points] because each failed engagement represents the enemy killing you
The point is to reward being in cover, and to value continuous tactical success for many individual engagements, over just the overall score. There certainly is gameism in the real thing, but it's still better
Great video, and very true, methinks. In my teens I trained learning an authentic non-watered down Japanese martial art. Against my better judgment and out of pure curiosity, I took a judo lesson - knowing that at this point it had been turned into a sport. Many of the throws were very similar in their concept, but they included one or two extra steps for the sole reason of not severely injuring your opponent. I was not willing or able to untrain my self to accommodate this - I had no desire to erase the instinctual techniques that had been trained into me. It WAS a valuable lesson though!
When the Japanese Government wanted to adopt a martial art for their police/military forces, they had competitions between the top "authentic non-watered down Japanese martial arts", and Judo. The Judokas wiped the floor with everyone. Turns out, that dudes who lift weights, spar/grapple daily, get conditioning, work on their flexibility, and work on the fundamentals of fighting (takedowns and submissions) will beat dudes who don't spar full force, and who only theorize about breaking fingers and poking out eyes in half assed slow motion movements. Also, there isn't a single "extra step" added to Judo throws as you said. Judo HAS been watered down though, but only in the sense that it has stopped certain throws from being used in competition. A sentiment we'd probably agree on.
So why are a very large majority of top tier direct action units getting training from world champion competitive shooters?
To learn better shooting fundamentals. Shooting is not the same as fighting.
As Gabe said, to shoot more accurately and faster. Those guys ALSO extensively train in individual, team, and small unit tactics that do not apply to a match
I spent over 20 years running around with the “cool guys” in the “tactical” community and only recently started shooting competition in IPSC/USPSA. When it comes to speed and accuracy, even a “B” class (mid level) shooter will outperform the best of the tier 1 teams guys I’ve seen.
Most of the animus I’ve see from the tactical community towards the competition bros is because it’s really humbling for a career SWAT or teams guy to get smoked by a bunch of dudes with absolutely no “real” experience. The learning opportunities they pass up on solely because of their own pride and arrogance is really unfortunate.
Don’t skip “leg day”…
@@nbonner75 I disagree
Great topic. People who have never dealt with real bad guys forget the enemy gets a vote.
I shot with Jim Cirillo in 1976, I didn't have even half the skill that I developed later and he got a shock! :-)
Hi Melvin 🤣
Great stuff!
Honestly, in my area, you can’t find a range where you can move and shoot at the same time. Except on Match days, so I shoot matches to practice that.
The difference is mindset.
Practice of any kind I'd always good. Competitions are nice too, they induce some stress. It's similar to sparring in Kempo. Your mind set is the difference.
Exactly! combat shooting is not the same as competition shooting. Comp shooters are great, however some of the safety rules or safety procedures forced on comp shooters go directly against some combat tactics.
Too true. IPSC and the rest of sport shooting will give you some practice in handling and fast shooting, but will get you in the completely wrong frame of mind to apply in a real fight.
You definitely miss a few things about competitive shooting. How do you induce a kind of stress that compares to being in a " gunfight " ? Competitive shooting definitely helps train that by the stress of shooting a stage and competing in a match. Second it helps you learn how to do things extremely fast shooting, moving and gun manipulation. It is a test of you how you act or react under pressure.
As a combat infantry veteran and carry opic's uspsa grandmaster I will guarantee the skills you build and doing these competitive events will directly transfer over.
Based reporting by Gabe, in the movie Collateral the scene where Tom Cruises breifcase was taken and the shoot out with the two homeys looked like realistic street combat was these tactics accurate.
Agreed…omg….Audy Murphy. My dad would always talk about him. 👍🏻
I think people confuse being a good shooter in competition using solid, trained and burned in fundamentals to being a good shooter in a self defense context using solid, trained and burned in fundamentals. Both are good shooters. What’s different is the application of tactics that the good shooter uses to come out on top of the situation they are in. My opinion is that training to shoot your gun using the fundamentals of shooting accurately and quickly for competition CAN translate over to a self defense situation. But effective self defense shooting MUST include different tactics. Good shooting is good shooting. It’s just the application of tactics to different situations. If that makes any sense. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
You put that well...I'd add that a bad plan beats no plan, because you are still one thought ahead in a defensive scenario...
I don't think anyone views Sport Shooting as a direct translation for "da streetz". The same way people don't view MMA as a "street" martial art. However, the fundamentals of striking and grappling, speed, precision, timing, balance, movement, comfortability, strength, conditioning, etc you develop in MMA will not hold you back if you ever had to use your hands to defend yourself. If anything, it will help you immensely. The same can be said of competition shooting.
Gunfighting is so dynamic (the environment, weapons, situation, etc), that all you can do is apply principles to it and hope for the best. However, the act of shooting quickly and accurately is not principle based, but instead hard skills that come with the type of training typically associated with sport shooting.
The ultimate reality is, that one doesn't need to be as good as a competition shooter to survive a gunfight. Out of tens of thousands of documented CCW/Civilian home/self-defense cases... 99% of the people winning those have ZERO training. Neither tacticool nor sport based. Guns are very deadly and tend to resolve most situations in a few shots. Due to the nature of firearms being so deadly even in untrained hands, I'd agree that teaching students' tactical principles is going to be better than teaching them hard skills that can take years to develop.
However, if you're trying to push it to the next level (as a lot of people are) ... There's only so much you can do that's tactical/principle based, and the next level is going to have to be hard skills/competition/training, since that cannot be developed in classes, theory, or study.
You make my case sir - "There's only so much you can do that's tactical/principle based". Actually TACTICS is not a discussion/classroom topic. It is as hands on as grappling. Sadly, very few people understand it or how to teach it. But it can be taught, just as timing and maneuver can be taught.
Then you say, "...and the next level is going to have to be hard skills". I agree with that, but not competition. Anything to train or do habitually you will keep with you. You cannot say, well...on the range I do this and on the street I do that. Training scars exist and I see them in every single class.
The hard skills include moving while drawing and shooting in such a dynamic manner that it would be deemed unsafe by range monitors. Working a 360 degree world where there is no "180 line". Everything is downrange and the "targets" are not steel or cardboard, but other men trying to shoot you.
That type of training is quite safe albeit a bit grueling. But its not something you are going to get a trophy for, and it can't be made into a sport or a game.
@@suareztactics I think I understand what you're saying. You want people to practice the tactics to the point of them being second nature. I agree with that. I hope to take some classes from Suarez Int and get more educated on these topics. In regard to training scars from competition, I don't see how it's possible to get that from competitions like IPSC/USPSA. One doesn't train to unload and show clear, it's a conscious and slow decision done after you finish your actual exercise. No different than unloading your gun yourself at your own discretion. Perhaps if unloading and showing clear was part of the timed event, then I can see this actually happening.
In regard to Jim Zubiena, that's a disinformation myth that started in Arfcom and has spread like wildfire in all the tactical circles. Mr.Zubiena and others who worked on that scene have been interviewed and have all stated that the unloading of the pistol was done on purpose. It had nothing to do with him being unable to perform the scene, the scene actually called for it. It was supposed to be unloaded on camera so that as he's running away from the crime, no one could run up to the pistol and use it against him, at least not quickly. He did however have to do the take 7 times because he wasn't used to shooting with gloves, and the gloves kept snagging the draw. It didn't prevent him from drawing the pistol, but it didn't look as smooth so they did it 7 times for the smoothest take.
I've been to A LOT of practical shooting based classes and training where we run hot ranges. Opposite of USPSA ranges where you're supposed to unload and show clear. In none of them did I or anyone else accidentally unload and show clear. And this is because most of our practice would take multiple days if we're constantly unloading and showing clear after every string of fire. As a matter of fact, I see the opposite. Meaning that without a range officer constantly nagging us to "unload and show clear", 99% of us will naturally holster our loaded pistols.
When practicing for practical shooting, you almost never unload between reps. The VAST majority of your training does not involve unloading and showing clear.
Ok, so I listened to the entire video so as to not pass early judgement and I don't like to beat up on fellow guntubbers. The people that know, know that this is a common opinion held by self defense instructors and police that don't compete on a high level. That fact is the shooters that delve deeply into both worlds of training, Massad Ayoob for example say that competitive shooting is essential to be all you can be in the self defense department. "A gun fight is a competition and your life is the prize" says Massad Ayoob.
There is NO WAY you can come close to the training stress you get by traveling across the country to compete in a championship match, to wait your turn to get one attempt at each stage while going up against the best shooters in your class and division. All this after investing many 1000s of dollars and hours in advancing your training to beat rivals that you are emotionally invested in defeating.
After you train hard and compete hard for a few years your default lower brain shooting habits evolve into always seeing sights and seeing what you want to shoot even under intense stress, malfunction etc. You have experiences where you watch your body shoot the stage and feel like an observer. Your perception of time is permanently changed so that fast things seem slow to you.
Regular training with your carry firearm and equipment for self defense is essential as well to have a well rounded group of self defense skills. But to never advance your competency with competition as well to be all you can be in self defense is self defeating.
I think you should try shooting some local matches in your area. You will learn things you never knew you needed to learn about shooting.
@@TUCOtheratt sigh.....
“The tactics from competitive shooting don’t transfer to the street.” No kidding, 10 on 1 isn’t going to work out?
I would love to see you and Matt Pranka have this discussion.
Audie Murphy!
USPSA/IDPA/PCSL are fun but they are not training or practice. Personally they are an important supplement to my dry fire, live fire practice, and my mental development but not a substitute for what you need to do to dominate in the real world.
Competitive shooting is the new crossfit. A great concept turned into dogma. I'm not against competitive shooting, in fact I train with a competitive shooter and learned some good stuff from him, however he has a very skewed view of shooting, and as a Marine who has been in real gun fights, I bring something to the table also. What's funny is that I'm open to some of the things he is teaching, but his street isn't a two way street, even though he knows I have an actual real background with experience he tends to brush off any concerns I have. I haven't been going to that particular range as much.
Being a Marine means nothing, which is why I don't bring it up myself (with the exception of showing how meaningless it is). When I was in the Corps I knew plenty of fellow Infantry dudes who saw combat, and most of it amounted to shooting at blobs from hundreds of yards away, not knowing if you hit said blob, and hearing bullets whiz past your head while you're in a ditch or behind a wall. I knew one ghetto ass Marine who killed two enemy combatants in Iraq, I asked him for the details and he said himself he just "point shooted" when he accidentally came across two hadjis. Something that takes no skill and any other Marine (or civilian) would have been capable of doing, yet plenty of dudes hopped up on Rambo movies will think of him as a gunfighting master. Combat experience doesn't mean jack when it comes to shooting skills. If a civil war breaks out, perhaps those skills overseas (small unit tactics, radio, etc) might start to matter. But currently what most people do overseas doesn't translate to what a civilian experiences in defensive encounters. Carrying an M16A4, a kevlar helmet, plate carrier, and being part of a fireteam does not translate over to the needs of Johnny and his G19 appendix carry.
@@UrbanDefenseSystems Sounds like you sucked at being a Marine. That's a personal problem.
Training scars - good description of a common habit.
Agree.
Miami vice Jim zubiena, action beats reaction!
All do respect you are wrong about practical shooting. The skills you learn in completive shooting, i.e. drawing, indexing, reloading,, learning target focus, and weapon manipulation carry over into the streets. Law enforcement is slowly changing from the red shirt polo LEO Inbred firearms Instructor training to practical shooting skills. Ill take four Grand Masters taught CBQ for a week and they would smoke any tactical team. Shooting is shooting and having the hard skills to deliver wins the day and the gunfight.
No substitution for real world training!
I have not competed in decades but if this is true, it's a blanket condemnation of current combat shooting match designers. Match design CAN force you to learn realistic skills. Ranges should never exceed 10m and only rarely exceed 5m, all shooting should be done from a concealed carry start. No stage of fire should last longer than 1.5 seconds, unless you're moving or using cover and even then, should not last longer than 3 seconds. That's just too damned long to be exposed to enemy fire. If I had to go into a fight and could only have pistols, I'd much rather have Rob Leatham than the typical cop, even if he HAS been thru your classes.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6h Typical Cop = Typical Sport Shooter. Id rather have a veteran of multiple gunfights...a proven killer by my side... than Leatham.
@@suareztactics Do a Live with Matt Pranka then...
@@suareztactics Serious question, there's a lot of people who have been in multiple gunfights, especially in the LEO side of things, where they basically shot at criminals who were reaching for a gun, or had a knife and were charging from far away. Very rarely are OIS's situations where it's a fair fight and it's two guys shooting at each other with equal cover and concealment between them and the winner is decided based on shooting skill. (and it shouldn't of course, real life isn't a Hollywood movie, the importance is survival). But with that being said, what skills are you looking for here? The ability to decide to kill a human being in an instant? Because if so, that's entirely up to the individual's mental ability and not predicated on training. If the skill you're looking for is moving to cover and concealment while engaging the threat, most competition guys know this. They are not going to stand there and "make ready", as the bad guy is making a move lol.
@@UrbanDefenseSystems 1). Tactics (street tactics not match tactics, 2). Predisposition to aggression, 3). Timing (taking initiative and not waiting), and last of all is 4). Shooting skills. That is my opinion based on my prior experience and in training gunfighters since 1995.
If sport shooting is your jam, great...enjoy it...have fun...win those medals. In my opinion, other than the last element (shooting skills), they will not provide any of the other elements. Where can you get that stuff? In force on force drills and training...but that has zero to do with cool guns, and sport shooting.
@@suareztactics Thank you for the answer. Much appreciated.
You default to your level of training (scars).
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