The best suggestion was this meta-one highlighted by _Novara Media,_ actually: *_Stop wasting time on getting ideas from the general public rather than experts_* _Look, most people haven’t got a clue about how to run an incredibly complex organization like the NHS. Even less of them have any expertise in healthcare provision. Why are you wasting time, money and effort on an exercise like this? Speak to experts. Speak to people on the front line. Speak to academics who have actually put years of work into researching this. Heck, speak to other health services around the world who have good approaches. But what you don't need to do is sort through a million responses from people who think that “wokery” is ruining the NHS, or believe that if only everyone ate dandelions you could do away with ambulance sirens. Stop it. Just stop it._ Posted by Ian Betteridge on 21 October 2024
The cynic in me says it's about manufacturing consent for privatisation to be honest. The government chooses whichever conclusions it wishes to draw from the feedback. If they want to privatise they'll present the feedback as some great demand for privatisation and try to use it to get away with what they wanted to do anyway.
Doctor here; what would actually be helpful were if the government increased training places for doctors coming out of their foundation years (first two years of being a doctor). There are currently plenty of doctors who don’t have a speciality training post (e.g GP, internal medicine, paediatrics) due to there being not enough places to meet demand. Competition ratios for GP is 1 place : 3-4 applicants, and this is one of the least competitive training posts. If you want more doctors and consultants you need supply of jobs has to meet demand. Me and a lot of my fellow doctors are looking to be unemployed next year due to not being able to get into a training post.
One of the many absurdities of the service. Thanks for pointing this out. The closer you look, the more you realise it's a complete shambles from top to bottom. A fucking omnishambles you could say. Honestly it's painful. Good luck, doc, I don't envy you!
Add to this there are training thresholds doctors need to achieve, in a limited time frame after graduating. So we could end up with doctors losing their ability to practise as they haven't 'developed' enough, as there were not roles that would fulfil that training criteria available. I say this could happen but actually it already does, it'll just get worse.
Wait till you learn about how insane inter-deanery transfers are, slapped on top of trying to get your training transfered. A system unfit for purpose doesn't even begin to explain it.
Just starting the episode, genuinely glad Oli is back and genuinely hoping he's in a better mood today. I do think this is the best configuration (almost all of the time).
@@octaviamcdougall7170if you want dry joyless leftist commentary you can watch novara, the trio havin a big laff interspersed with left wing political commentary is what the poljoe podcast is
Btw people get paracetamol on prescription due to the amount of tablets. You can only buy 2 packs from the shops but you can get 100(?) tabs on prescription. This helps older people who don't get out much.
You can get 100 over the counter if you ask, but off the shelf has limits. Nonetheless I was getting off stronger pain relief in Australia and would use 200 a month and buy just once a month.
People who get free scrips, get the medication they need for free (at the point of delivery). Pretty much everyone else should buy paracetamol as it will cost the NHS and you much less - 200 / month is still only 7 / day - so a trip to 2 shops a week and at 37p / pack is £4.63 / month Maybe we should means test free scrips for pensioners? I wonder how much that would "save" the NHS (Spoilers : we should not)
I hate football but I'd watch a podcast about it if it was mainly Eva talking. And just making shit up about footaball to make it actually interesting.
The funny thing is, missed appointments are actually bad. Missed appointments do allow GPs time to do admin work, or Frankly breath. Sure, on the end user side, places are hard to get due to low supply, but overworking GPs doesnt help in the long run. Nor does it help in regards to people that may have difficulty with public transport, or those where health issues can prevent attendance, both physical and mental.
On warmness, a lot of hospital buildings are connected to heat networks that are badly designed and might not be controllable on a ward level - so overheating in some areas can be needed to ensure other areas are getting enough heat. Retrofits would save long-term cash but at the cost of immediate investment, so we know its not going to happen
On the warmness thing - old people tend to fall more when it's colder, so as most of your population are older in hospitals, it's probably related to reducing falls
Funnily enough I had an argument with my pharmacist because (being in Scotland) I was trying to buy paracetamol and she was trying to put it through as a prescription so I didn't pay for it. I was more than happy to pay the 65p rather than the NHS paying a small fortune. It was a mind-boggling conversation.
I think people that work from home get very upset about people talking about it being easy because they see that rhetoric as a threat that will ultimately force them back into the office which they dont want and honestly for many would not be productive. But i agree it is definitely easier i just see that as a good thing it should be easy to work whats the point in hundreds of years of tech advancement if you still work yourself to death like a peasant.
I agree, I don’t understand why this podcast is so hostile to it. WFH has been one of the most positive things to happen to working people for a generation. Some people are too extroverted for it to work for them, some don’t work in jobs that allow them to - but why does that mean those who can (and like it) shouldn’t? I don’t understand the argument that it’s inherently bad because it makes people’s lives easier, isn’t that what progress is about? It just comes across as crab mentality
It really is such a bootlicking attitude to have outside of big cities. I take their point about not engaging with the city, but this is exactly the reason people are hypersensitive about "the metropolitan, liberal elite" saying shit about their life. Contextually, I know what Ava means. On its own, however, the sentence "People who work from home have it a bit jammy," sounds perilously close to "Let's all get back into the office" from people like Rees-Mogg.
73 is one of the least random “random” numbers, as a small majority of people will choose a random number that has a 3 or 7 in it. 37 is the most likely of this psychological quirk.
Teach basic self care in school, to try and stem this tide of acopia we have to deal with on a day to day basis. More training posts to deal with the bottle neck that is speciality training. Protect said training time so it’s not just service provision day in, day out.
I've been an HCA at my local NHS trust for over seven years now, so just wanted to anecdotally address a couple of points here: When I started in 2017 I was told the budget was 60p per patient per meal, so it's surprising any of it is edible. My pro-tip is to pretend to be Muslim (or you can convert) if you're not, because the Halal curries are peng. The kosher meals are also relatively high quality but I can't vouch for them. Average temperature on the ward in my legacy building was 28C IN WINTER and we had 0 control other than opening a few windows restricted to 3" aperture. With full pandy PPE including the facemask and, god forbid, face-shield to go and wash someone, it was extremely oppressive. While I would stop short of mandatory euthanasia, peoples' attitude towards death needs re-calibrating. Frequently in elderly care I would see lives, and suffering, prolonged unnecessarily for a combination of two reasons: Firstly, their relatives being in complete denial about the situation, so insisting that their loved one 'keep fighting' while demanding the doctors continue active treatment. I believe this was frequently driven by guilt on the relative's part for not being there for them earlier. Secondly, 'junior' doctors (including registrars) being unwilling to deem a patient 'end of life' and switching them to palliative care, instead continuing to pump the patient full of fluids and meds (costly and ironically fatal on rare occasion) in the hope they might bounce back. The shortage of consultants (and the fact they don't work weekends) meant this could go on for days or sometimes weeks. These people, usually in their late eighties or nineties, often had a poor quality of life and would confide in me privately that they were ready or even looking forward checking-out. As a side note, when I started I was on about £9.50/hr. For a job that includes: being punched, bitten and verbally abused by patients who are double incontinent and you need to clean-up; Consoling a person with dementia who can't form new memories much, so will ask you the same question 50-100 times per shift (usually "when can I go home?".. "We don't know because you need social care."); Washing, wrapping and tagging a recently deceased patient ('last offices') before they go to the morgue; I could go on, but you get the idea... Anyway, thanks to the new gov, I'm now raking in a stately £12.04/ hr!! But as I'm constantly reminded, "it's a vocation", so that's absolutely fine then.
The NHS once took a project that was being worked on by volunteers to overhaul NHS IT with open source technology so that they aren't dependent on an American corporation, running constantly out of date vulnerable software and NHS leadership took this project, used it as leverage to get a better deal with Microsoft and then sent legal threats to the owners of this project to get them to remove any reference to the NHS from it. There are so many examples of things like this where managers at all levels are actively making the NHS worse. I can't say what the best way to run the NHS is, as I'm no expert, but making dodgy deals with Microsoft and running ancient operating systems that are more vulnerable than your average IC patient can't be a good idea, not to mention the costs. Sure there would be an expense in changing things over, but the long term benefit far outweighs the short term cost.
Man, I loved the intro to 1984 where Winston has to do supervised exercises in front of the telescreen. Can't wait for that Britain to become reality with a NHS TV channel.
What i will say about ppl not interacting with london if they there...drs when they leave med school don't get a choice where they live. I personally don't want to be put in London because of the insane cost of living vs initial salary
If the Inheritance tax exemptions like agricultural relief, AIM shares, capital gains on assets and such are either removed or capped, it could raise a good chunk of money for NHS investment. Doubly so if the PPE contracts are investigated and treason charges are brought against offenders as it still has capital punishment.
You guys really need to re-evaluate that baked in ad. The cringe tone aside, just randomly hard cutting to it is so jarring. Please stop or at least introduce it or put it at the end.
Reform the NHS - Total strip down from top to bottom! I have friends who work within different areas of local hospitals... One who looked into & tried making savings in procurement...She got moved onto Cardiology after pointing out how many savings they could make. The NHS is corrupt af!
I don't think it's Olly that's the problem, it's just the number of presenters. 2 is OK, but when there's 3 the banter just gets confusing and out of control. Two's company, three's a crowd.
Anti fatty is good. People are too fat and it's costing the NHS a lot. It is clear people cannot control how much they need to eat so we need to tell people: it's your fault you're so fat. Put down the crisps and have an apple.
that’s so stupid how you gonna blame individuals when food can choose to put addictive and unhealthy ingredients in our food and they have millions it’s not as simple as chose and apple instead of donuts apples aren’t cheap and aren’t food that’s just a snack and people work 8hr plus a day they need energy fruit and veg are luxuries depending on your income a bag a frozen chips and apples cost the same in london one can fill u for hours what choice would you make
@@Kaiissad fruit is cheap. Healthy food is cheap. Salads and vegetables are cheaper than fatty meat and cheese. Cooking at home is cheaper than takeaway or eating out. Not eating chocolate, crisps, sweets, etc actually saves you money because you don't buy it. People who smoke are responsible for their bad health. People who over eat are responsible for their bad health. It is an individual's fault.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | เปิดใจ "อาจารย์ เบียร์ ฅนตื่นธรรม" นักสนทนาธรรมสายดุดัน!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vqaBI_mnoDk/mqdefault.jpg)
The best suggestion was this meta-one highlighted by _Novara Media,_ actually:
*_Stop wasting time on getting ideas from the general public rather than experts_*
_Look, most people haven’t got a clue about how to run an incredibly complex organization like the NHS. Even less of them have any expertise in healthcare provision. Why are you wasting time, money and effort on an exercise like this? Speak to experts. Speak to people on the front line. Speak to academics who have actually put years of work into researching this. Heck, speak to other health services around the world who have good approaches. But what you don't need to do is sort through a million responses from people who think that “wokery” is ruining the NHS, or believe that if only everyone ate dandelions you could do away with ambulance sirens. Stop it. Just stop it._
Posted by
Ian Betteridge on 21 October 2024
But... .the wisdom of crowds....
The cynic in me says it's about manufacturing consent for privatisation to be honest. The government chooses whichever conclusions it wishes to draw from the feedback. If they want to privatise they'll present the feedback as some great demand for privatisation and try to use it to get away with what they wanted to do anyway.
@@BlueMountain1992 That's surprisingly, awfully, nauseatingly plausible.
Fuck me, that American Friction advert is terrible.
I appreciate that they are getting money for it, but I ain't watching it.
Doctor here; what would actually be helpful were if the government increased training places for doctors coming out of their foundation years (first two years of being a doctor). There are currently plenty of doctors who don’t have a speciality training post (e.g GP, internal medicine, paediatrics) due to there being not enough places to meet demand. Competition ratios for GP is 1 place : 3-4 applicants, and this is one of the least competitive training posts. If you want more doctors and consultants you need supply of jobs has to meet demand. Me and a lot of my fellow doctors are looking to be unemployed next year due to not being able to get into a training post.
One of the many absurdities of the service. Thanks for pointing this out. The closer you look, the more you realise it's a complete shambles from top to bottom. A fucking omnishambles you could say. Honestly it's painful. Good luck, doc, I don't envy you!
@@nyewells 14 years of Tory rot.
Add to this there are training thresholds doctors need to achieve, in a limited time frame after graduating. So we could end up with doctors losing their ability to practise as they haven't 'developed' enough, as there were not roles that would fulfil that training criteria available.
I say this could happen but actually it already does, it'll just get worse.
@@Hill_Walker 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Wait till you learn about how insane inter-deanery transfers are, slapped on top of trying to get your training transfered. A system unfit for purpose doesn't even begin to explain it.
Just starting the episode, genuinely glad Oli is back and genuinely hoping he's in a better mood today. I do think this is the best configuration (almost all of the time).
nah oli is a bad host he is a schoolboy mentally and brings wee Ed down too
@@octaviamcdougall7170if you want dry joyless leftist commentary you can watch novara, the trio havin a big laff interspersed with left wing political commentary is what the poljoe podcast is
Wes Streeting has a serious case of Silicon Valley Syndrome in conjunction with an advanced case of Consultancy-brain.
Btw people get paracetamol on prescription due to the amount of tablets. You can only buy 2 packs from the shops but you can get 100(?) tabs on prescription. This helps older people who don't get out much.
You can get 100 over the counter if you ask, but off the shelf has limits. Nonetheless I was getting off stronger pain relief in Australia and would use 200 a month and buy just once a month.
People who get free scrips, get the medication they need for free (at the point of delivery).
Pretty much everyone else should buy paracetamol as it will cost the NHS and you much less - 200 / month is still only 7 / day - so a trip to 2 shops a week and at 37p / pack is £4.63 / month
Maybe we should means test free scrips for pensioners? I wonder how much that would "save" the NHS (Spoilers : we should not)
Ignore the haters, the best 3.
I hate football but I'd watch a podcast about it if it was mainly Eva talking. And just making shit up about footaball to make it actually interesting.
She’s really funny
Don't as the British public for suggestions, we will end up with the NHS renamed Boaty McBoatface.
Medicine McMedicineface
The funny thing is, missed appointments are actually bad.
Missed appointments do allow GPs time to do admin work, or Frankly breath.
Sure, on the end user side, places are hard to get due to low supply, but overworking GPs doesnt help in the long run.
Nor does it help in regards to people that may have difficulty with public transport, or those where health issues can prevent attendance, both physical and mental.
01:27 - When I worked at a hotel I had to make it aware to Nordic guests that correct swim attire had to be worn in the sauna.
Yes Oli is back about time
The hospital in Bradford gets curry donated from the local restaurant/takeaway over the road on a Friday. It's BANGING!
On warmness, a lot of hospital buildings are connected to heat networks that are badly designed and might not be controllable on a ward level - so overheating in some areas can be needed to ensure other areas are getting enough heat. Retrofits would save long-term cash but at the cost of immediate investment, so we know its not going to happen
On the warmness thing - old people tend to fall more when it's colder, so as most of your population are older in hospitals, it's probably related to reducing falls
@17.40 I had a physical reaction when Ava handled Oli’s daft noise / expression perfectly
I completely agree with Ed's statistic. Would sauna, just to see.
Funnily enough I had an argument with my pharmacist because (being in Scotland) I was trying to buy paracetamol and she was trying to put it through as a prescription so I didn't pay for it. I was more than happy to pay the 65p rather than the NHS paying a small fortune. It was a mind-boggling conversation.
I think people that work from home get very upset about people talking about it being easy because they see that rhetoric as a threat that will ultimately force them back into the office which they dont want and honestly for many would not be productive. But i agree it is definitely easier i just see that as a good thing it should be easy to work whats the point in hundreds of years of tech advancement if you still work yourself to death like a peasant.
I agree, I don’t understand why this podcast is so hostile to it. WFH has been one of the most positive things to happen to working people for a generation. Some people are too extroverted for it to work for them, some don’t work in jobs that allow them to - but why does that mean those who can (and like it) shouldn’t? I don’t understand the argument that it’s inherently bad because it makes people’s lives easier, isn’t that what progress is about? It just comes across as crab mentality
It really is such a bootlicking attitude to have outside of big cities. I take their point about not engaging with the city, but this is exactly the reason people are hypersensitive about "the metropolitan, liberal elite" saying shit about their life. Contextually, I know what Ava means. On its own, however, the sentence "People who work from home have it a bit jammy," sounds perilously close to "Let's all get back into the office" from people like Rees-Mogg.
73 is one of the least random “random” numbers, as a small majority of people will choose a random number that has a 3 or 7 in it. 37 is the most likely of this psychological quirk.
Gonna call Oli out on hearing that supermodels and champagne idea on TH-cam shorts 😂
Honestly the Sadiq Cans thing had me absolutely crying with laughter
Screaming with a tango ice blast 😂
I remember when I was a kid and sat through an entire episode of Challenge Anika in A&E
Teach basic self care in school, to try and stem this tide of acopia we have to deal with on a day to day basis.
More training posts to deal with the bottle neck that is speciality training.
Protect said training time so it’s not just service provision day in, day out.
im ngl some of the your mum jokes on this pod recently have been all timers but i dont think they would go down well with the awards crowd haha
I've been an HCA at my local NHS trust for over seven years now, so just wanted to anecdotally address a couple of points here:
When I started in 2017 I was told the budget was 60p per patient per meal, so it's surprising any of it is edible. My pro-tip is to pretend to be Muslim (or you can convert) if you're not, because the Halal curries are peng. The kosher meals are also relatively high quality but I can't vouch for them.
Average temperature on the ward in my legacy building was 28C IN WINTER and we had 0 control other than opening a few windows restricted to 3" aperture. With full pandy PPE including the facemask and, god forbid, face-shield to go and wash someone, it was extremely oppressive.
While I would stop short of mandatory euthanasia, peoples' attitude towards death needs re-calibrating. Frequently in elderly care I would see lives, and suffering, prolonged unnecessarily for a combination of two reasons: Firstly, their relatives being in complete denial about the situation, so insisting that their loved one 'keep fighting' while demanding the doctors continue active treatment. I believe this was frequently driven by guilt on the relative's part for not being there for them earlier. Secondly, 'junior' doctors (including registrars) being unwilling to deem a patient 'end of life' and switching them to palliative care, instead continuing to pump the patient full of fluids and meds (costly and ironically fatal on rare occasion) in the hope they might bounce back. The shortage of consultants (and the fact they don't work weekends) meant this could go on for days or sometimes weeks. These people, usually in their late eighties or nineties, often had a poor quality of life and would confide in me privately that they were ready or even looking forward checking-out.
As a side note, when I started I was on about £9.50/hr. For a job that includes: being punched, bitten and verbally abused by patients who are double incontinent and you need to clean-up; Consoling a person with dementia who can't form new memories much, so will ask you the same question 50-100 times per shift (usually "when can I go home?".. "We don't know because you need social care."); Washing, wrapping and tagging a recently deceased patient ('last offices') before they go to the morgue; I could go on, but you get the idea...
Anyway, thanks to the new gov, I'm now raking in a stately £12.04/ hr!! But as I'm constantly reminded, "it's a vocation", so that's absolutely fine then.
Why has Jon Sopel's new book deliberately been covered up? (To the left of Truss at 10.) Just asking.
Loved Eds English impression 🙌🤣 howling 🤣🤣
The NHS once took a project that was being worked on by volunteers to overhaul NHS IT with open source technology so that they aren't dependent on an American corporation, running constantly out of date vulnerable software and NHS leadership took this project, used it as leverage to get a better deal with Microsoft and then sent legal threats to the owners of this project to get them to remove any reference to the NHS from it.
There are so many examples of things like this where managers at all levels are actively making the NHS worse.
I can't say what the best way to run the NHS is, as I'm no expert, but making dodgy deals with Microsoft and running ancient operating systems that are more vulnerable than your average IC patient can't be a good idea, not to mention the costs. Sure there would be an expense in changing things over, but the long term benefit far outweighs the short term cost.
Ava saw you riding your lime bike outside Bank of England, really wanted to shout your name was like id seen a celebrity hahahaha
It's superficial, but I agree with Dugmore on the Kaos chat. Janet McTeer can get it.
43:00 oli's dua lipa muzzle bit from a while ago springs to mind. And Ava's Mary Magdalene joke from around easter
“Set a maximum BMI for nurses” 😂😂😂
Please can these be louder? I'm having to play these at full volume on my phone!
Everyone's hair looks great today
Man, I loved the intro to 1984 where Winston has to do supervised exercises in front of the telescreen. Can't wait for that Britain to become reality with a NHS TV channel.
Ed going off on the definition of demure was very funny.
I'm surprised at Ava's hatred of poetry given that she's a fan of Sylvia Plath who I consider one of the most important poets of her generation
I'm also Scottish and say boo-fay
Poor Ava, her campaign of pretending not to like football has backfired!
The euthanasia one, I hope, is a joke, because it sounds exactly like something Wes Streeting would do to reduce waiting lists
So what I've learned from this and brexit is that the british public shouldn't be consulted on anything 😂
What i will say about ppl not interacting with london if they there...drs when they leave med school don't get a choice where they live. I personally don't want to be put in London because of the insane cost of living vs initial salary
The hospitals offer a range of fairly okay food I think that is a picky aspect of the NHS budget the food
Spent 14 hours in hospital recently, way too hot
No Arnold Palmer?? Must have been filmed before that gem dropped.
If the Inheritance tax exemptions like agricultural relief, AIM shares, capital gains on assets and such are either removed or capped, it could raise a good chunk of money for NHS investment. Doubly so if the PPE contracts are investigated and treason charges are brought against offenders as it still has capital punishment.
I have a paracetamol addiction. I also have what Boris calls "bone cancer".
interestingly i was perscribed strong paracetamol several 100 tablets when i had migranes to save money as a student by my nice GP.
NHS tv channel could just be 24 hour embarrassing bodies. It could be a real money spinner with all the ads they could sell.
How can you reform something that’s been systematically stripped apart for profit?!
Nice podcasting. I hope you win.
I would like to nominate your joke on Donald Trump’s pubic hair and it being a hula skirt.
Some people are genetically immune to norovirus - like me :smug emoji
Day 67 of asking for a production team microphone.
Oh no, the bully is back. Let's see how this ep goes.
I am one of Ed’s anecdotes
Can't understand why you have to hide behind those massive mics. There are alternatives..
Absolutely agree. I've always thought they should hide behind cardboard cutouts of 90s boy-band members.
I don't respect olly because he doesn't drink frosty jacks
You guys really need to re-evaluate that baked in ad.
The cringe tone aside, just randomly hard cutting to it is so jarring.
Please stop or at least introduce it or put it at the end.
Sydney sweeney sea worthiness
Nigel 4Rage.
Pizzahoot 😂
buffet/BOOFET
Reform the NHS - Total strip down from top to bottom! I have friends who work within different areas of local hospitals... One who looked into & tried making savings in procurement...She got moved onto Cardiology after pointing out how many savings they could make. The NHS is corrupt af!
Total strip down from top to bottom? So you were the one in the sauna!
Ed, behave yourself.
ah great Oli is back 😒😒
Get rid of Olly now
Totally, worst sort of person, nancing around on his failing podcast.
I don't think it's Olly that's the problem, it's just the number of presenters. 2 is OK, but when there's 3 the banter just gets confusing and out of control. Two's company, three's a crowd.
Anti fatty is good.
People are too fat and it's costing the NHS a lot.
It is clear people cannot control how much they need to eat so we need to tell people: it's your fault you're so fat. Put down the crisps and have an apple.
that’s so stupid how you gonna blame individuals when food can choose to put addictive and unhealthy ingredients in our food and they have millions it’s not as simple as chose and apple instead of donuts apples aren’t cheap and aren’t food that’s just a snack and people work 8hr plus a day they need energy fruit and veg are luxuries depending on your income a bag a frozen chips and apples cost the same in london one can fill u for hours what choice would you make
@@Kaiissad fruit is cheap. Healthy food is cheap. Salads and vegetables are cheaper than fatty meat and cheese.
Cooking at home is cheaper than takeaway or eating out.
Not eating chocolate, crisps, sweets, etc actually saves you money because you don't buy it.
People who smoke are responsible for their bad health.
People who over eat are responsible for their bad health.
It is an individual's fault.
New namestraps don't animate off properly 🥲