Amazon doesnt actually care about counterfeits. If they did, they would give more scrutiny to who can sell. You can find 20 Chinese products that all look the same but are different sellers.
Thats wrong, Amazon cares greatly & massively restricts sellers & requires brand approvals. Why? Amazon's customer based is mostly fixed. So if Amazon can limit free market competition (aka be monopolistic) then that means higher prices for consumers & more fees for them. This is all just PR content to make people believe Amazon should be "cracking down" & its working extremely effectively. But this is exactly how we end up in a dystopian future with mega-corporations & zero way for the the little guy to get ahead. You think Amazon actually wants a million small sellers & the headache that brings when they could instead only have a few thousand approved sellers, limited competition, higher prices, more fees & far lower expenses? This is all a cleverly crafted PR campaign so they can engage in monopolistic practices without being labelled as a monopoly because its in the name of "consumer protection" which is an age old lie told time & time again without losing effectiveness. Now they turned us into the ones demanding they restrict their platform, funny how that happened.
Even a counterfeit sale is a profit for them, why would they crack down on fakes? I think we've seen the peak of trust in Amazon and they are now on the decline.
Amazon counterfeit crimes devision is bs. We sold our brand on Amazon, then counters appeared. We complained. Amazon support told us we needed to purchase one of the counterfeits to prove it was counterfeit. We did. When we informed Amazon of it being counterfeit, they immediately took actually and closed OUR account. The counterfeit product weighed 1/3 of what our product does.
@@brothermine2292 There is no way you're blaming this guy. He is the one who complained about the counterfeit. What kind of miscommunication would lead to Amazon closing the complainer's account?
If you are the true owner of the trademark and under their brand registry, they would not close/suspend your account instead of the other sellers that's selling counterfeits. No test buy is required from their current Terms of Service.
Pretty sure Amazon bought and paid for this puff piece. Either that or this reporter is an idiot not to question how ridiculously understaffed the fraud unit is while being seemingly convinced “the problem is too big to tackle”.
A staff of 35 sounds like they can probably knock out 10 bad actors a year. I was shocked that the anti counterfeit staff is so tiny. No wonder fraudulent products are rampant on Amazon. I don’t buy from Amazon unless there is no brick and mortar alternative where I can see before I buy. I recently bought a Black & Decker saw and it was $20 less at Menards than it was on Amazon. Even though the Amazon listing said “sold by Amazon” I still felt more sure I was getting a real product from Menards. I had to drive to Menards and pick up my purchase, but I had what I needed in 30 minutes. I can see that Amazon is a great time saver if you live in a rural area without big box retailers nearby or you don’t have easy access to transportation to shop. Otherwise, Amazon is not worth it by the time you pay for a Prime membership on top of Amazon’s prices being about the same as big box stores.
@wtmayhew Not that low enforcement, there's some many hiding in plain sight they can focus on easy fish and serial offenders. In terms of accounts banned, enforcement is impressive, but only few are prosecuted. Amazon is only going to spend money if counterfeiters threaten customer loyalty
My thoughts exactly! Clearly Amazon is not doing enough when the site is filled with fake reviews. What is with that ending saying because of the sheer volume, it's impossible to stop counterfeits from getting through? Did we ask for the news to make excuses for Amazon or report the facts?
I always look to see where the seller is. Just click on their name and you can see the location their in. If it's China you will see it. I typically don't buy items from China if I see it in their profile. If it's a U.S. address, I can easily google map it to see if it's a legit business. But....I always buy from amazon as a seller. I trust that the most.
@@texchu8331they actually pay for fake news stories Honeywell and Santee Cooper does this with their smart rewards program🎉 a completely fake news story that looks real🎉 go to the house and then the homeowner AKA a lady that actually works for Santee Cooper and Honeywell🎉 does an entire fake add
yep. The 'fakes' include 1. Outright counterfeits 2. Surplus/damaged/reject goods sold as new (Honeywell is notorious for unloading their junk this way) 3. Faked companies. (I bought a power block from 'Apple' on Amazon, it started smoking, nearly caught fire. When I took it apart it clearly wasn't Apple. I bought a sewing machine from 'Janome.' When it didn't work I contacted Janome for their lifetime warranty. "We do not sell on Amazon. See ya.... " When I complained all Amazon eventually did was make this seller change their name to "Brand:Janome." Is the fake Apple products seller the same bunch of crooks who were 'Apple" but are now "Brand:Apple"? Who knows. Isn't 'Brand:(Company) a form of lying? What would Amazon do if anyone set up a web business: Brand:Amazon? 4. Quality dropping. Initially they sell a quality product, get good reviews, then they replace it with junk. 5. Faked reviews of course. But also blocked reviews. If an item or seller is particularly egregious Amazon blocks a lot of red flag level warnings. It's like you can write 'this product is not good,' but if you write, 'look out this is horrible...' that's too much. 6. Multiple layers of anonymity. Ever buy a product and then try to return it, but Amazon wants you to first contact them? Sometimes by the time you can finally send it back, you've contacted three completely different businesses none of which are the Selling Name on Amazon. If they kick anyone off their platform, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from just changing their name, getting someone else to front it, and going right back on. Because of chronically bad expensive tech products, computer, camera, binoculars, etc.. Years ago I stopped buying anything expensive on Amazon. Too high a chance the item will have a serious problem. One would think Amazon would care. I guess not. The bottom line is that Amazon doesn't have much quality control, makes it really difficult to report on, or file a complaint, seems resistant to taking action. I once invested in Amazon but then sold. It seemed to me that they were just like so many other retailers in the past Sears, several discount chains (including one that was on their way to becoming the first WalMart/Costco), etc... they initially have a great business model, but then they never fix any of the problems. Inevitably they atrophy and go out of business. Amazon has made some improvement, but they haven't done enough to protect their customers.
Amazon literally gives replica Chinese sellers the buy box on products I make in house. Contacting seller services does nothing. Even trademarks and parents don't work. Unless you have the money to take Amazon to court its useless. They do nothing to protect sellers.
It's actually because amazon is the biggest counterfeit seller on their platform by the name of Amazon basics... Amazon didn't just figure it out themselves every product they sell, they forced merchants to give up their suppliers and then they make a bigger offer than any merchant could match because they have bank and reach. Every merchant will gladly tell you about it, it's not a conspiracy, there are very public records about it.
Same here. I buy much less on Amazon today than I used to. I've had too many "good deals" turn bad, usually lasting just past the return period on what I suspect are counterfeit items like Sylvania/Osram and Fruit of the Loom.
I stopped buying original products long time ago as the difference in quality between fake and original is so marginal that paying premium for original is not warranted.
@talon310calif, I always look to see where the seller is. I suggest YOU do the same. Just click on their name and you can see the location their in. If it's China you will see it. I typically don't buy items from China if I see it in their profile. If it's a U.S. address, I can easily google map it to see if it's a legit business. But....I always buy from amazon as a seller. I trust that the most.
>chrisguevara : Amazon has two incentives to fight counterfeits: 1. Legitimate sellers (such as Birkenstock) stop selling on Amazon and tell customers their products are only available elsewhere. 2. Buyers stop buying legitimate products due to fear they may be counterfeit.
Yep. Amazon Basics. Amazon finds successful products, copies them, and then puts their name on it. I used to buy Amazon Basics until I watched a documentary on those products.
Average people buying camo for casual wear don't care if its authentic. Anyone who does, like police or the military, shouldnt be buying "official" merchandise from a photo on Amazon. 🙄
100% agreed, also these "counterfeits" aren't actually counterfeit at all. Their just generic brands selling a similar product but don't claim to be Crye. Crye is claiming they own the rights to the pattern & is weaponizing government enforcement to restrict the free market & keep prices high for consumers. That is anti-monopolistic, Crye is just one of many many companies doing this & this is why many people believe capitalism doesn't work. What we have isn't even capitalism anymore, the free market died long ago. All patent & copyright laws should be repealed & consumers would benefit massively.
If Amazon really cared, they would bring back Q/A section that they took down and would make it easier for consumers to report these counterfeit stores.
What a joke. It's gotten soooo bad on Amazon. I now avoid buying anything that goes into my body: supplements, water filters, and anything on the skin. I go directly to the maker and buy directly. Nowadays, I avoid buying anything it's so bad.
What are u waffling? Use common sense and check for verification markers like ingredints list in the description/info section, 4+ stars, a good amount of comments, purchases, branding, etc and you'll be fine. If your looking at items below 4 stars without reviews, proper decsriptions/branding or many sales then ofc it's gonna be dogshit.
I’m a retired Army Infantryman and if you saw the insane prices this uniform manufacturer charges you’d see why there’s so many counterfeit versions for sale. Notice how expensive that company building is? That should clue you into how much money they make. The best way to deal with counterfeiting is to lower their prices but that would require their greed to be put in check. I lack the pity for them.
Sounds like they should be doing this for the Russian website so they can make sure the Russians have counterfeit clothing, they'll be easier to capture so more troops to add to the exchange fund
@@JLeYangeBay does crap like that. You can sort by “origin.” North America or US specifically. I do this when I want something in a short amount of time. In other words, can’t wait for it to come out of Asia. The seller says they’re in the US, sometimes even in the thumbnail, and then they mark the item as shipped, but the tracking number shows “awaiting.” The seller then ships it using their third party Chinese shipper. When it’s supposed to be at your door at the latest, that’s when the USPS finally gets a hold of it from the 3rd party.
I had to buy Crye Percision gear when I was with the Army... $400 for a pair of pants...but they are crying because of counterfeits. Yet, they have no problem ripping off service members.
Not a life threatening example but last night I went to buy a juicer and the amount of knock offs that were cheaper but looked just like what I wanted was crazy! Even when searching the brand, the sponsored items far outnumbered actual brands…I finally just went to the actual store front of the brand I wanted…ten times harder than it should be!
Well, people realize that big brands are so expensive because 70% of what they pay goes to their commercials and paying celebrities massive amounts of money and earnings for the brand owners. I've seen this, and also met some big brand Bosses both in China and the US. And yes there are bad copies, but there are also very good quality copies. And as people now know, big brands don't mean good quality and are mostly the same crap as copies. My last real Nike shoes that I paid 160$ for are just crap. They broke in several places after just 6 months...
Does the counterfeit crimes investigate amazon basic items that are tip offs of other peoples items? I used to work for Amazon, and I do everything in my power to NOT buy anything from them
@@brothermine2292 Not necessarily. They are also often made especially to the specs of amazon, after amazon has analyzed which products are bestsellers and can be recreated with a lower price. Other times amazon contacts the manufacturers of the bestsellers directly - whose addresses amazon has because vendors have to disclose this information to amazon (for verification of diverse compliance certificates). So the immoral thing here is that amazon uses the sales data and manufacturer contacts of its vendors to enter into direct competition with and of course undercut them, because amazon doesn't have to pay i.e. a 15% amazon fee.
I bought an ACOG scope on Amazon like 10 years ago, it was a knock-off, someone had taken the real one, returned it with a fake and then Amazon resold it to me. Now, they took it back and I did get a real one in the end, but I thought wow, that is a real way to make easy money if you have no character or ethics. Which a lot of people don't.
I've had this problem with Dewalt batteries and OEM car parts (fuel filters, oil filters). It's still being sold right now. They haven't fixed anything.
This is exactly why I bout directly from the manufacturer instead of Amazon. Sometimes it cost more but if I can avoid getting a counterfeit product, I will absolutely have no problem doing so.
The thing is… if you buy direct from the manuf, especially in any kind of bulk, then it should 100% be cheaper than on AMZ because there is no cut to pay to the middle man. If someone is shopping AMZ (for the types of products highlighted in this vid) because they noticed the price is cheaper then they’d be stupid to not expect it to be a scam.
Amazon caring about counterfeit sales is like saying that phone companies care about spam calls.... profit is profit, be it counterfeit sales or spam calls.
OMG! You need to absolutely keep it! Whether it's true or not, this is special to you. People create packages, packages do not create people. Rock it girl, salute kislux !
i dont want item manufactured in America, and i want to cheap identical items. if you want to pay 10x the price for the same item be my guess. just stop complaining how expensive items get.
Because they are a significant part of the GDP and the US Treasury and the economy depends on it. Jeff Bezos can get away with many crimes at this point
Never buy car parts from Amazon, the amount of counterfeit for that section is insane, the scary thing is the amount of damage a counterfeit part can do to you car.
I've always thought that Amazon Basics is terribly screwed up. Having your retailer suddenly compete with you the manufacturer. It is unfair and immoral business practice. It's kind of good for the one company that produces the AB product for them but screws all the competition. Even the chosen company is forced to sell at a substantially lower price to Amazon.
Counterfeiters are all over online and even some regular retail shops. I never buy anything electric or battery from third party sellers and limit third party buying.
Amazon is a terrible place to find products but a great place to buy something if you already know what you are looking for. That’s the biggest issue with the company from a consumer standpoint.
Multicam is a trademarked camouflage pattern. The US Military doesn't even use Multicam because they didn't want to pay the licensing fees, they use their own pattern called Scorpion W2
I've tried to review fake or inferior swapped items. The reviews weren't able to be posted for "technical reasons". But regular reviews post without issue. Amazon is in on it, shocker.
Solution is Simple: Ask sellers to become minimum 2 years of Brand Registration. Because when Amazon cancel these counterfeit producer companies to sell in the platform; they apply with a new name. BUT If amazon asks or make mandatory for the new sellers to have minimum 2 years of brand registration, it will definitely block the counterfeit producers to exist at the Amazon platform. BUT the main question is DOES AMAZON WANT IT? because I am not sure Amazon cares about if the products are counterfeit or genuine in the platform.
As a consumer, when I see a product on Amazon I have to question, did they put malware on the phone? Was this Hoover board assembled and made in China and thus likely to blow up and give my feet 3rd degree burns? Are these Jordan shoes counterfeit? Did they mishandled it? Drop it? Remove something outside or inside the product? Is this shirt made with low quality material? Right size? Looks good? Charged more? Am I really getting what I expect? I end up sitting on the product in my cart on Amazon and looking for the product on the manufacturer's website or find a similar product in a local store. Hell I even drove hours because I found a product at a store in my region.
Stuff on Amazon hurts competition since Amazon will not allow vendors to set lower prices elsewhere and have to charge higher prices on Amazon because of the high fees Amazon charges to vendors. Amazon has 50% of the online market share which basically makes it a monopoly.
Hey, folks: the biggest clue that you've found a counterfeit is the price. If you find something that is half the price that you see the same thing somewhere else, it's probable that it is a fake.
I call it the Counterfeit Emporium, because I'll look there attempting to sort out what's genuine for a particular product, to find out that none of it is. When it's the entire store, it's not so much a counterfeit problem at the store, it's just a counterfeit goods store.
I see this myself on Amazon. I found a Microsoft surface that I know is either a fake or a refurb from the seller in China but masked it like it was sold from Microsoft. Amazon does not provide any ways for you to flag it. I simply comment on the product with details of why I know it was a fake. The seller immediately took the listing off but 2 days later went back up with a different seller name. So I had to comment again. This is why I stopped shopping on Amazon.
No - Chinese will happily collect your money, then it never comes and they keep your money for 2 months and say "not in stock." I received BS beauty products that were goopy drippy messes and not really product that I could never use. You have not gotten FKD yet. That's why you are so naive
It would work, but it'd be hard to win that case when they're throwing a lot at the problem. If you ask me a blanket ban of certain countries will solve 90% of the problem
@@samsonsoturian6013 Both the genuine and counterfeits come from the same countries. On top of all of us struggling in the current economy already as it is.
Amazon has been long known for counterfeit camera cards.. Some of the red and grey brand, the most recognised brand, are bad. They work, but not to same spec as real. They are so good that when shown to the real manufacturer they said they counld not tell them apart.
If military wear is an issue, why are these guys buying stuff from Amazon instead of getting it from the vendor directly? Wouldn't that be cheaper as a military contract vs getting it like an average consumer. Amazon would need to go through a certification process, having third parties source and say who their providers are and showcase contracts. Let's be real, Amazon only cares about profits.
I use my kislux as a work bag and have had no issues at all. Itâs a comfortable bag, fits a good amount and hadnât lost its shape. With that being said, I also take care of all my bags and donât carry a water bottle, pens, keys or anything that can damage the interio.
The main problem for me is that the quality is so bad nowadays. The quality is much better and the prices are much lower in kislux small boutiques. There is just no marketing. When I was a little girl the luxury goods were much better than the cheaper brands.
Allowing Chinese sellers is the root cause of most of Amazon's problems nowadays. Counterfeits are a big issue obviously, but all the cheap chinese crap with fake reviews is an even bigger issue IMO. They could rebuild their reputation and customer trust by just banning Chinese sellers.
In the online Sales segment Counterfeit based crime is considered especially annoying. To deal with these crimes the Amazon sales division the agents and team members of the Counterfeit Crime Unit are charged with making the appearance of dealing with these crimes…These are their stories.
Perhaps the problem is in companies wanting to profit the most possible instead of lowering prices fairly even when they dont earn enough to buy 100 thousand private jets.
I used to think that owning a luxury bag was an unattainable dream, until kislux told me that this dream is actually very close. The sense of fashion comes not only from the brand, but also from personal matching and attitude.
To be fair name brand goods are so inflated in price that the profit margin is insane and borderline predatory to consumers. A Chanel purse that costs $120 in materials going for $3000 is bonkers.
I report multiple counterfeit items I bought (and returned) from Amazon and to this day those items are still on their site for sale. They are not bothered.
Crye pants are $350 to $500 with certain camo, their “counterfeit” pants being sold on Amazon is they hold up just as good as the crye and is basically the same pants with a different logo for more than half the price
I wonder if Amazon coud require sellers to be bonded, and have those bonds be forfeited if they're found to be selling fakes. The bond issuers would end up being the checkers and enforcers in order to avoid having to pay out.
That would be anti-competitive as hell, you realize you're crazy right? The more restrictions you add the less free market competition exists, the only winner here would be the large corporations who weaponized government enforcement in the name of "consumer protection" to artificially keep prices high. People like you proposing ideas like that is exactly why what we have today is no longer capitalism because the free market died decades ago.
@@Zaptosis Bonds are commonplace in other areas of the economy such as construction and contracting with government entities and they don't limit competition. Your strident response borders on hysteria.
The higher the "brand premium", the more likely the brand is to be counterfeited. The easiest way to reduce counterfeiting is to lower the price. That makes it less profitable for counterfeiters.
Why would someone who has been buying from the brand for years or even decades suddenly have to pay 50-60% more for the exact same item? Inflation cannot justify this. It's like the brand is deceiving the consumer. On kislux , the bags sold are priced lower but of higher quality, so you might as well go there.
I bought what I think was fake Sonicare toothbrush heads. The price was still pretty up there. The heads broke. If it was counterfeit, it was very hard to tell if it was or not.
Interesting video topic but poor example using a local camo clothing manufacturer claiming other sellers who make their own camo clothing, branded separately are considered counterfeit. More like one business trying to avoid competition.
Amazon don't care because they know many ppl want to buy counterfeit on amazon at a good price. If people really want the original they should buy directly from the manufacturer website.
With the number of products available on Amazon there is no way to completely lock down counterfeiting. Why? Because the uninformed shoppers don’t know some of the products they are buying are counterfeit so when they see a great deal they jump on it not thinking about what they are buying. When you see a brand name like Nike being sold for less than a quarter of its normal price think, “is this a clearance price or is something else going on here?” Why do you think some other e-market sites are not expanding into the U.S. or EU? Because there is no money in it for them to crack down on counterfeiting. Yes they have websites available to those areas but they don’t have a physical presence in those places.
Another issue driving the counterfeit goods issue is consumers buying extremely low cost items and somehow believing that they are legitimate. For example, if a pair of Army military uniform pants costs $75 at the base uniform and clothing sales store and it’s listed on Amazon new for $40 a consumer should really question the legitimacy of the item vs fantasizing about getting this great deal; as we all ultimately learn, if it’s too good to be true, it probably is.
Amazon closed our accounts for no reason and confiscated our money, accusing us of forgery, and I bought the products from Amazon, that is, they did not accept the invoice for the product they sold and closed our account unjustly, they did the same to not only me but thousands of people. I hope he pays a heavy price for this injustice because small businesses like us deserve their rights. He unjustly confiscated our money
Amazon tried to play this game with me claiming that they're not liable they're there full of BS. These products are being sold on their platform which makes them liable. I'm not a judge I'm not a lawyer and even I can figure that out.
There also a lot of vendors that place paper or something like that to pass the weight check and place make the packaging difficult to open to prey on human weakness by making the problem solvers who may not care enough and pass the product along to the customer
The US Army is the largest perpetrator of counterfeiting Multicam. OCP is now the standard pattern of the Airforce, Space Force and Army and it was developed as an almost carbon copy of Multicam. If Crye had the rights to the pattern, they would’ve made a mint.
Amazon doesnt actually care about counterfeits. If they did, they would give more scrutiny to who can sell. You can find 20 Chinese products that all look the same but are different sellers.
Thats wrong, Amazon cares greatly & massively restricts sellers & requires brand approvals. Why?
Amazon's customer based is mostly fixed. So if Amazon can limit free market competition (aka be monopolistic) then that means higher prices for consumers & more fees for them.
This is all just PR content to make people believe Amazon should be "cracking down" & its working extremely effectively. But this is exactly how we end up in a dystopian future with mega-corporations & zero way for the the little guy to get ahead. You think Amazon actually wants a million small sellers & the headache that brings when they could instead only have a few thousand approved sellers, limited competition, higher prices, more fees & far lower expenses?
This is all a cleverly crafted PR campaign so they can engage in monopolistic practices without being labelled as a monopoly because its in the name of "consumer protection" which is an age old lie told time & time again without losing effectiveness. Now they turned us into the ones demanding they restrict their platform, funny how that happened.
Even a counterfeit sale is a profit for them, why would they crack down on fakes?
I think we've seen the peak of trust in Amazon and they are now on the decline.
Those aren't counterfeits. That is just rebranding.
Yeah if they cared they'd have a standard for digitally signing products and then just authenticate those signatures...
Amazon takes counterfeits very seriously. “It’s profit for them” no it’s not it’s lost customers .
Amazon counterfeit crimes devision is bs. We sold our brand on Amazon, then counters appeared. We complained. Amazon support told us we needed to purchase one of the counterfeits to prove it was counterfeit. We did. When we informed Amazon of it being counterfeit, they immediately took actually and closed OUR account. The counterfeit product weighed 1/3 of what our product does.
Amazon closing the wrong account sounds like a failure to communicate.
@@brothermine2292 There is no way you're blaming this guy. He is the one who complained about the counterfeit. What kind of miscommunication would lead to Amazon closing the complainer's account?
@@brothermine2292 Obviously, you have not sold on Amazon. I did, until Amazon started ripping me off, by copying my products.
If you are the true owner of the trademark and under their brand registry, they would not close/suspend your account instead of the other sellers that's selling counterfeits. No test buy is required from their current Terms of Service.
@@jaylee6890 yeah, i agree sounds like bs to me
35 people is how seriously they take this problem. And that dept head sounds like a politician
It's all PR
That’s 0,002% of their 1.500.000 people…
Pretty sure Amazon bought and paid for this puff piece. Either that or this reporter is an idiot not to question how ridiculously understaffed the fraud unit is while being seemingly convinced “the problem is too big to tackle”.
A staff of 35 sounds like they can probably knock out 10 bad actors a year. I was shocked that the anti counterfeit staff is so tiny. No wonder fraudulent products are rampant on Amazon.
I don’t buy from Amazon unless there is no brick and mortar alternative where I can see before I buy. I recently bought a Black & Decker saw and it was $20 less at Menards than it was on Amazon. Even though the Amazon listing said “sold by Amazon” I still felt more sure I was getting a real product from Menards. I had to drive to Menards and pick up my purchase, but I had what I needed in 30 minutes.
I can see that Amazon is a great time saver if you live in a rural area without big box retailers nearby or you don’t have easy access to transportation to shop. Otherwise, Amazon is not worth it by the time you pay for a Prime membership on top of Amazon’s prices being about the same as big box stores.
@wtmayhew Not that low enforcement, there's some many hiding in plain sight they can focus on easy fish and serial offenders. In terms of accounts banned, enforcement is impressive, but only few are prosecuted. Amazon is only going to spend money if counterfeiters threaten customer loyalty
What a joke. How much did Amazon pay for this ad?
My thoughts exactly! Clearly Amazon is not doing enough when the site is filled with fake reviews. What is with that ending saying because of the sheer volume, it's impossible to stop counterfeits from getting through? Did we ask for the news to make excuses for Amazon or report the facts?
I always look to see where the seller is. Just click on their name and you can see the location their in. If it's China you will see it. I typically don't buy items from China if I see it in their profile. If it's a U.S. address, I can easily google map it to see if it's a legit business. But....I always buy from amazon as a seller. I trust that the most.
@@texchu8331they actually pay for fake news stories Honeywell and Santee Cooper does this with their smart rewards program🎉 a completely fake news story that looks real🎉 go to the house and then the homeowner AKA a lady that actually works for Santee Cooper and Honeywell🎉 does an entire fake add
Interesting it opens with migrants, where are the feds to crack down on this potential sweatshop
yep. The 'fakes' include
1. Outright counterfeits
2. Surplus/damaged/reject goods sold as new (Honeywell is notorious for unloading their junk this way)
3. Faked companies. (I bought a power block from 'Apple' on Amazon, it started smoking, nearly caught fire. When I took it apart it clearly wasn't Apple. I bought a sewing machine from 'Janome.' When it didn't work I contacted Janome for their lifetime warranty. "We do not sell on Amazon. See ya.... " When I complained all Amazon eventually did was make this seller change their name to "Brand:Janome." Is the fake Apple products seller the same bunch of crooks who were 'Apple" but are now "Brand:Apple"? Who knows. Isn't 'Brand:(Company) a form of lying? What would Amazon do if anyone set up a web business: Brand:Amazon?
4. Quality dropping. Initially they sell a quality product, get good reviews, then they replace it with junk.
5. Faked reviews of course. But also blocked reviews. If an item or seller is particularly egregious Amazon blocks a lot of red flag level warnings. It's like you can write 'this product is not good,' but if you write, 'look out this is horrible...' that's too much.
6. Multiple layers of anonymity. Ever buy a product and then try to return it, but Amazon wants you to first contact them? Sometimes by the time you can finally send it back, you've contacted three completely different businesses none of which are the Selling Name on Amazon. If they kick anyone off their platform, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from just changing their name, getting someone else to front it, and going right back on.
Because of chronically bad expensive tech products, computer, camera, binoculars, etc.. Years ago I stopped buying anything expensive on Amazon. Too high a chance the item will have a serious problem. One would think Amazon would care. I guess not.
The bottom line is that Amazon doesn't have much quality control, makes it really difficult to report on, or file a complaint, seems resistant to taking action. I once invested in Amazon but then sold. It seemed to me that they were just like so many other retailers in the past Sears, several discount chains (including one that was on their way to becoming the first WalMart/Costco), etc... they initially have a great business model, but then they never fix any of the problems. Inevitably they atrophy and go out of business. Amazon has made some improvement, but they haven't done enough to protect their customers.
Amazon should 100% be responsible for what's sold on THEIR platform
1.5 MILLION employees to sell you the product. 35 people to make sure that product is real. What a puff piece.
100%. Absolutely just lip service.
Meh, if Amazon wanted to remove them they could, but they don't want to cause it costs money.
They make money off every sale so they are incentivized to not do anything dummy
Amazon literally gives replica Chinese sellers the buy box on products I make in house. Contacting seller services does nothing. Even trademarks and parents don't work. Unless you have the money to take Amazon to court its useless. They do nothing to protect sellers.
It's actually because amazon is the biggest counterfeit seller on their platform by the name of Amazon basics... Amazon didn't just figure it out themselves every product they sell, they forced merchants to give up their suppliers and then they make a bigger offer than any merchant could match because they have bank and reach. Every merchant will gladly tell you about it, it's not a conspiracy, there are very public records about it.
@nomaam9288 not necessarily, if they get a bad reputation for a lot of fakes, people will not pay as much or use amazon less or stop altogether
@@nomaam9288 but they did and still do ? lmao bro welcome to "white collar crime".
I stopped buying critical or expensive items from Amazon; opting to pay MSRP from the manufacturer or an authorized dealer.
Same here. I buy much less on Amazon today than I used to. I've had too many "good deals" turn bad, usually lasting just past the return period on what I suspect are counterfeit items like Sylvania/Osram and Fruit of the Loom.
Same here. Even other not critical items are very cheaply made, I return a lot because of the low quality products.
I buy directly from amazon the seller.
I stopped buying original products long time ago as the difference in quality between fake and original is so marginal that paying premium for original is not warranted.
@@zli7616 Cause POS products are POS products no matter who makes them.
I saw one vendor on Amazon with over 4000 5 star rating but ZERO written reviews. I skipped it.
The Chinese game the system
They send a card in the mail a few weeks or days after you order something and offer you a gift card for a good 5 star review
@@RrR-xv4ij Amazon incentivizes gaming their very game-able system*
fixed that for you
@@Mymelodykayla you can report that to Amazon and provide proof of the letter, they will get the seller's account suspend.
@talon310calif, I always look to see where the seller is. I suggest YOU do the same. Just click on their name and you can see the location their in. If it's China you will see it. I typically don't buy items from China if I see it in their profile. If it's a U.S. address, I can easily google map it to see if it's a legit business. But....I always buy from amazon as a seller. I trust that the most.
Amazon creates counterfiet products of sellers items and resells under their name.
Dam, that's misusing people
I had a related thought. What is Amazon's incentive to remove counterfeit products?
This
YEP.
>chrisguevara : Amazon has two incentives to fight counterfeits:
1. Legitimate sellers (such as Birkenstock) stop selling on Amazon and tell customers their products are only available elsewhere.
2. Buyers stop buying legitimate products due to fear they may be counterfeit.
Amazon does the same thing and then promotes their own product when a small business starts getting a lot of sales on amazon
Yep. Amazon Basics. Amazon finds successful products, copies them, and then puts their name on it. I used to buy Amazon Basics until I watched a documentary on those products.
Average people buying camo for casual wear don't care if its authentic. Anyone who does, like police or the military, shouldnt be buying "official" merchandise from a photo on Amazon. 🙄
100% agreed, also these "counterfeits" aren't actually counterfeit at all. Their just generic brands selling a similar product but don't claim to be Crye.
Crye is claiming they own the rights to the pattern & is weaponizing government enforcement to restrict the free market & keep prices high for consumers. That is anti-monopolistic, Crye is just one of many many companies doing this & this is why many people believe capitalism doesn't work. What we have isn't even capitalism anymore, the free market died long ago.
All patent & copyright laws should be repealed & consumers would benefit massively.
They should at least buy like 5 first just to see if they are legit in person.
Came here to say that too. Anyone buying camo gear on Amazon, doesn’t care if it’s “authentic” or not. It’s for their LARPing and airsoft/paintball
I AGREE
@@swaggery They're not that smart.
If Amazon really cared, they would bring back Q/A section that they took down and would make it easier for consumers to report these counterfeit stores.
What a joke. It's gotten soooo bad on Amazon. I now avoid buying anything that goes into my body: supplements, water filters, and anything on the skin. I go directly to the maker and buy directly.
Nowadays, I avoid buying anything it's so bad.
What are u waffling? Use common sense and check for verification markers like ingredints list in the description/info section, 4+ stars, a good amount of comments, purchases, branding, etc and you'll be fine.
If your looking at items below 4 stars without reviews, proper decsriptions/branding or many sales then ofc it's gonna be dogshit.
I’m a retired Army Infantryman and if you saw the insane prices this uniform manufacturer charges you’d see why there’s so many counterfeit versions for sale. Notice how expensive that company building is? That should clue you into how much money they make. The best way to deal with counterfeiting is to lower their prices but that would require their greed to be put in check. I lack the pity for them.
Why is the military buying supplies from amazon market place instead of buying directly from the companies?
Military does not officially buy, but veterans and personnel sometimes buy with their own money.
This is not entirely on Amazon because under US contracts and Berry amendment, there's a requirement of US ORIGIN for clothing.
Sounds like they should be doing this for the Russian website so they can make sure the Russians have counterfeit clothing, they'll be easier to capture so more troops to add to the exchange fund
@@JLeYang It's sad that army uniforms cannot be of domestic origin unless you get them from Amazon...
@@JLeYangeBay does crap like that. You can sort by “origin.” North America or US specifically. I do this when I want something in a short amount of time. In other words, can’t wait for it to come out of Asia. The seller says they’re in the US, sometimes even in the thumbnail, and then they mark the item as shipped, but the tracking number shows “awaiting.” The seller then ships it using their third party Chinese shipper. When it’s supposed to be at your door at the latest, that’s when the USPS finally gets a hold of it from the 3rd party.
I had to buy Crye Percision gear when I was with the Army... $400 for a pair of pants...but they are crying because of counterfeits. Yet, they have no problem ripping off service members.
So your yearly clothing allowance just about covers a pair of pants. I hope you don't need a shirt and socks too. ☹
Admit it you just wanted to be dripped out. No one forces you to buy Crye.
@@1manzpeople Some units its required
Not a life threatening example but last night I went to buy a juicer and the amount of knock offs that were cheaper but looked just like what I wanted was crazy! Even when searching the brand, the sponsored items far outnumbered actual brands…I finally just went to the actual store front of the brand I wanted…ten times harder than it should be!
CNBC should be ashamed of this soft touch journalism. Amazon needs to be held accountable.
This segment may be sponsored content.
Stop the music in the background of your story. It is really distracting and also makes it harder to hear. Thanks and please have a great day.
Yeah, it's really silly and overly dramatic. Reminds me of the old Unsolved Mysteries episodes.
Ive been saying that for years!!
Well, people realize that big brands are so expensive because 70% of what they pay goes to their commercials and paying celebrities massive amounts of money and earnings for the brand owners. I've seen this, and also met some big brand Bosses both in China and the US. And yes there are bad copies, but there are also very good quality copies. And as people now know, big brands don't mean good quality and are mostly the same crap as copies. My last real Nike shoes that I paid 160$ for are just crap. They broke in several places after just 6 months...
Does the counterfeit crimes investigate amazon basic items that are tip offs of other peoples items? I used to work for Amazon, and I do everything in my power to NOT buy anything from them
Nice, but why
Why? Amazon is amazing great deals
Aren't "Amazon Basics" items just rebranded items produced by legitimate manufacturers?
It's not counterfeiting if it doesn't claim to be from the nicer brand.
@@brothermine2292 Not necessarily. They are also often made especially to the specs of amazon, after amazon has analyzed which products are bestsellers and can be recreated with a lower price.
Other times amazon contacts the manufacturers of the bestsellers directly - whose addresses amazon has because vendors have to disclose this information to amazon (for verification of diverse compliance certificates).
So the immoral thing here is that amazon uses the sales data and manufacturer contacts of its vendors to enter into direct competition with and of course undercut them, because amazon doesn't have to pay i.e. a 15% amazon fee.
I bought an ACOG scope on Amazon like 10 years ago, it was a knock-off, someone had taken the real one, returned it with a fake and then Amazon resold it to me. Now, they took it back and I did get a real one in the end, but I thought wow, that is a real way to make easy money if you have no character or ethics. Which a lot of people don't.
And they likely closed and confiscated all the money from the original seller who got ripped off the first time when you reported it was fake.
I had this happen with a few products… surefire scout lights and an Eotech EXPS, all fake.
Don’t buy gun stuff from Amazon
I've had this problem with Dewalt batteries and OEM car parts (fuel filters, oil filters). It's still being sold right now. They haven't fixed anything.
make sure they listed at Dewalt batteries NOT look alike. if they can list at DeWalt then its legitimate. look alike are not
@@jackli6592it was definitely listed as genuine Dewalt batteries. A few months later Amazon sent me an email that they were fake and gave me a refund.
Yes, when making oem rip off parts or fluids that cost very little at full price is some how profitable it really makes me wonder how?
This is exactly why I bout directly from the manufacturer instead of Amazon. Sometimes it cost more but if I can avoid getting a counterfeit product, I will absolutely have no problem doing so.
The thing is… if you buy direct from the manuf, especially in any kind of bulk, then it should 100% be cheaper than on AMZ because there is no cut to pay to the middle man.
If someone is shopping AMZ (for the types of products highlighted in this vid) because they noticed the price is cheaper then they’d be stupid to not expect it to be a scam.
Amazon caring about counterfeit sales is like saying that phone companies care about spam calls.... profit is profit, be it counterfeit sales or spam calls.
OMG! You need to absolutely keep it! Whether it's true or not, this is special to you. People create packages, packages do not create people. Rock it girl, salute kislux !
Remember when Amazon Basics knocked off Peak Design and didn't even bother to change the name of the product? 😂
We need items manufactured in America and we need these countries to stop dumping cheap crap in our country
Noones forcing people to buy said cheap crap....
i dont want item manufactured in America, and i want to cheap identical items. if you want to pay 10x the price for the same item be my guess. just stop complaining how expensive items get.
@@TomNook.They scam the customers by not showing the correct pictures/specs.
"Small team" is probably just that one guy and probably works outside the rest of corporate. Amazon doesn't care.
Why Amazon is not accountable? But other industries are? Who is winning from the government?
Because they are a significant part of the GDP and the economy and the Treasury depend on it
Because they are a significant part of the GDP and the US Treasury and the economy depends on it. Jeff Bezos can get away with many crimes at this point
By US law they're civilly liable to try and remove crooks. Whether or not they succeed in doing so is another matter.
I’ve been selling counterfeit merchandise on Amazon for 10 years already and still haven’t been caught. This unit sucks.
Never buy car parts from Amazon, the amount of counterfeit for that section is insane, the scary thing is the amount of damage a counterfeit part can do to you car.
What is Amazon Basics then?
Exactly …
That's just an off brand on Amazon. Do you even know what counterfeit means?
They are just copying every other retail store.
I've always thought that Amazon Basics is terribly screwed up. Having your retailer suddenly compete with you the manufacturer. It is unfair and immoral business practice. It's kind of good for the one company that produces the AB product for them but screws all the competition. Even the chosen company is forced to sell at a substantially lower price to Amazon.
@@jayl878 go into a major grocery store or Staples or Walmart....or Costco....they did it first
@@jayl878Yep, should be illegal.
Counterfeiters are all over online and even some regular retail shops.
I never buy anything electric or battery from third party sellers and limit third party buying.
Amazon won’t even allow customers to leave a review warning about counterfeit goods.
12:14 was that a fire alarm battery beep during that interview? 😂😂 Bro was in an office
I just watched and had to back up when I heard that. They did our man dirty by leaving that in there. 😂
Amazon is a terrible place to find products but a great place to buy something if you already know what you are looking for. That’s the biggest issue with the company from a consumer standpoint.
That company is selling camouflage. How protectable is that anyways.
Multicam is a trademarked camouflage pattern. The US Military doesn't even use Multicam because they didn't want to pay the licensing fees, they use their own pattern called Scorpion W2
@@brownrunsthe military does use crye multicam, however it’s mostly issued to special operations or personally purchased
@@hoovie21 and I personally purchase it to LARP in my moms basement
And yet, when you try and report these fakes, Amazon accuses you of harassment.
I've tried to review fake or inferior swapped items. The reviews weren't able to be posted for "technical reasons". But regular reviews post without issue. Amazon is in on it, shocker.
Solution is Simple: Ask sellers to become minimum 2 years of Brand Registration. Because when Amazon cancel these counterfeit producer companies to sell in the platform; they apply with a new name. BUT If amazon asks or make mandatory for the new sellers to have minimum 2 years of brand registration, it will definitely block the counterfeit producers to exist at the Amazon platform. BUT the main question is DOES AMAZON WANT IT? because I am not sure Amazon cares about if the products are counterfeit or genuine in the platform.
As a consumer, when I see a product on Amazon I have to question, did they put malware on the phone? Was this Hoover board assembled and made in China and thus likely to blow up and give my feet 3rd degree burns? Are these Jordan shoes counterfeit? Did they mishandled it? Drop it? Remove something outside or inside the product? Is this shirt made with low quality material? Right size? Looks good? Charged more? Am I really getting what I expect? I end up sitting on the product in my cart on Amazon and looking for the product on the manufacturer's website or find a similar product in a local store. Hell I even drove hours because I found a product at a store in my region.
Stuff on Amazon hurts competition since Amazon will not allow vendors to set lower prices elsewhere and have to charge higher prices on Amazon because of the high fees Amazon charges to vendors. Amazon has 50% of the online market share which basically makes it a monopoly.
Amazon is so serious they have a 35 person team out of 200,000 so serious you see
Hey, folks: the biggest clue that you've found a counterfeit is the price. If you find something that is half the price that you see the same thing somewhere else, it's probable that it is a fake.
I call it the Counterfeit Emporium, because I'll look there attempting to sort out what's genuine for a particular product, to find out that none of it is. When it's the entire store, it's not so much a counterfeit problem at the store, it's just a counterfeit goods store.
I see this myself on Amazon. I found a Microsoft surface that I know is either a fake or a refurb from the seller in China but masked it like it was sold from Microsoft. Amazon does not provide any ways for you to flag it. I simply comment on the product with details of why I know it was a fake. The seller immediately took the listing off but 2 days later went back up with a different seller name. So I had to comment again. This is why I stopped shopping on Amazon.
What makes you think it was fake? I bought a refurbished surface from Microsoft on Amazon and it was legit.
They call it "counterfeit" when a chinese will sell you the same thing that cost $200 from a big brand corpo but for $30 dollar
Not the same thing. The counterfeiters are selling a look alike with lower quality.
Hans you are brain dead.
chinese counterfeit isn’t just cheaper, its bad quality lol
Eitri: Yes. That’s what….counterfeit means
No - Chinese will happily collect your money, then it never comes and they keep your money for 2 months and say "not in stock." I received BS beauty products that were goopy drippy messes and not really product that I could never use. You have not gotten FKD yet. That's why you are so naive
I personally believe that people shouldn't be able to purchase reviews.
I hardly ever buy clothes on Amazon for this reason.
As a customer. I dont care if its fake as long as the quality of the products are similar.
If it sounds too good to be true it usually is.
What it would take for Amazon to *really* crack down on counterfeit products? Fine them 120% of the revenue they get from counterfeit sales.
It would work, but it'd be hard to win that case when they're throwing a lot at the problem. If you ask me a blanket ban of certain countries will solve 90% of the problem
@@samsonsoturian6013 Both the genuine and counterfeits come from the same countries. On top of all of us struggling in the current economy already as it is.
“I love capitalism”
Loses the capitalism game
“Government please help”
Amazon could easily stop all counterfeits if they really wanted to: enlist consumers with monetary incentives. But they don't want to.
It's cool, temu and AliExpress won't let people down 😂
Temu is dog water 🤣
DHGate is pretty good as well, Temu is way too spammy I've never bought from them.
recently it´s often cheaper to buy in shops or direct from supplier
Amazon still has a massive problem. Almost everything that pops up is a sketchy Chinese brand
Its not fighting back. They also sell new stuff that is really used.
Amazon has been long known for counterfeit camera cards.. Some of the red and grey brand, the most recognised brand, are bad. They work, but not to same spec as real. They are so good that when shown to the real manufacturer they said they counld not tell them apart.
Someone is grumpy that they have to try harder to market there expensive products so that they can keep their margins high.
If military wear is an issue, why are these guys buying stuff from Amazon instead of getting it from the vendor directly? Wouldn't that be cheaper as a military contract vs getting it like an average consumer. Amazon would need to go through a certification process, having third parties source and say who their providers are and showcase contracts. Let's be real, Amazon only cares about profits.
I use my kislux as a work bag and have had no issues at all. Itâs a comfortable bag, fits a good amount and hadnât lost its shape. With that being said, I also take care of all my bags and donât carry a water bottle, pens, keys or anything that can damage the interio.
Stop Buying Crap from Amazon ...the downfall of retail
The main problem for me is that the quality is so bad nowadays. The quality is much better and the prices are much lower in kislux small boutiques. There is just no marketing. When I was a little girl the luxury goods were much better than the cheaper brands.
why are military uniforms sold in amazon?
Allowing Chinese sellers is the root cause of most of Amazon's problems nowadays. Counterfeits are a big issue obviously, but all the cheap chinese crap with fake reviews is an even bigger issue IMO. They could rebuild their reputation and customer trust by just banning Chinese sellers.
Amazon has gotten so bad that i actually trust the 4 stars and below more than i do the 5 stars reviews
In the online Sales segment Counterfeit based crime is considered especially annoying. To deal with these crimes the Amazon sales division the agents and team members of the Counterfeit Crime Unit are charged with making the appearance of dealing with these crimes…These are their stories.
It’s insane Amazon would mention counterfeit iPhone chargers when my own Amazon basics charging cord started on fire
I never knew they owned multicam
Perhaps the problem is in companies wanting to profit the most possible instead of lowering prices fairly even when they dont earn enough to buy 100 thousand private jets.
Best way to prevent greed and crime is not to buy through Amazon.
I used to think that owning a luxury bag was an unattainable dream, until kislux told me that this dream is actually very close. The sense of fashion comes not only from the brand, but also from personal matching and attitude.
To be fair name brand goods are so inflated in price that the profit margin is insane and borderline predatory to consumers. A Chanel purse that costs $120 in materials going for $3000 is bonkers.
This has been an issue for years and Amazon doesn’t care. I refuse to buy certain products on Amazon for this reason.
Amazon is the devil.
Amazon is hell. Bezos is the devil.
I report multiple counterfeit items I bought (and returned) from Amazon and to this day those items are still on their site for sale. They are not bothered.
Crye pants are $350 to $500 with certain camo, their “counterfeit” pants being sold on Amazon is they hold up just as good as the crye and is basically the same pants with a different logo for more than half the price
I wonder if Amazon coud require sellers to be bonded, and have those bonds be forfeited if they're found to be selling fakes. The bond issuers would end up being the checkers and enforcers in order to avoid having to pay out.
That would be anti-competitive as hell, you realize you're crazy right? The more restrictions you add the less free market competition exists, the only winner here would be the large corporations who weaponized government enforcement in the name of "consumer protection" to artificially keep prices high.
People like you proposing ideas like that is exactly why what we have today is no longer capitalism because the free market died decades ago.
@@Zaptosis Bonds are commonplace in other areas of the economy such as construction and contracting with government entities and they don't limit competition. Your strident response borders on hysteria.
The higher the "brand premium", the more likely the brand is to be counterfeited. The easiest way to reduce counterfeiting is to lower the price. That makes it less profitable for counterfeiters.
Why would someone who has been buying from the brand for years or even decades suddenly have to pay 50-60% more for the exact same item? Inflation cannot justify this. It's like the brand is deceiving the consumer. On kislux , the bags sold are priced lower but of higher quality, so you might as well go there.
I bought what I think was fake Sonicare toothbrush heads. The price was still pretty up there. The heads broke. If it was counterfeit, it was very hard to tell if it was or not.
I was shipped the wrong item twice, and now I don't want to order from Amazon anymore
0:59. “We’re not going to stop until there are no counterfeits in the Amazon store.” Riiiiiiight. If you buy it from the River, you expect a knockoff.
The US military doesn't use multicam. Their camouflage is called Scorpion Camouflage.
Interesting video topic but poor example using a local camo clothing manufacturer claiming other sellers who make their own camo clothing, branded separately are considered counterfeit. More like one business trying to avoid competition.
Amazon don't care because they know many ppl want to buy counterfeit on amazon at a good price. If people really want the original they should buy directly from the manufacturer website.
With the number of products available on Amazon there is no way to completely lock down counterfeiting. Why? Because the uninformed shoppers don’t know some of the products they are buying are counterfeit so when they see a great deal they jump on it not thinking about what they are buying. When you see a brand name like Nike being sold for less than a quarter of its normal price think, “is this a clearance price or is something else going on here?” Why do you think some other e-market sites are not expanding into the U.S. or EU? Because there is no money in it for them to crack down on counterfeiting. Yes they have websites available to those areas but they don’t have a physical presence in those places.
This guy is very happy about his job security!
@7:53 Why would Government agency order products from Amazon?
Another issue driving the counterfeit goods issue is consumers buying extremely low cost items and somehow believing that they are legitimate. For example, if a pair of Army military uniform pants costs $75 at the base uniform and clothing sales store and it’s listed on Amazon new for $40 a consumer should really question the legitimacy of the item vs fantasizing about getting this great deal; as we all ultimately learn, if it’s too good to be true, it probably is.
Amazon closed our accounts for no reason and confiscated our money, accusing us of forgery, and I bought the products from Amazon, that is, they did not accept the invoice for the product they sold and closed our account unjustly, they did the same to not only me but thousands of people. I hope he pays a heavy price for this injustice because small businesses like us deserve their rights. He unjustly confiscated our money
0:16 are you telling me this company decides that they're going to be able to PATENT camouflage?!?! This is disgusting
Easiest thing to do is seller doesn’t get paid until buyer confirms everything is ok or it gets sent back
It was a shame when Amazon moved from checking all their seller's to a became just another market place site...
Amazon tried to play this game with me claiming that they're not liable they're there full of BS. These products are being sold on their platform which makes them liable. I'm not a judge I'm not a lawyer and even I can figure that out.
There also a lot of vendors that place paper or something like that to pass the weight check and place make the packaging difficult to open to prey on human weakness by making the problem solvers who may not care enough and pass the product along to the customer
Came for the story, stayed for the music
How in the world would anyone think the cheap stuff sold on that site is genuine ?
The US Army is the largest perpetrator of counterfeiting Multicam. OCP is now the standard pattern of the Airforce, Space Force and Army and it was developed as an almost carbon copy of Multicam. If Crye had the rights to the pattern, they would’ve made a mint.