BTW, I measured the metal spigots before the earth wire was installed and they measured from 300ohm to 1kohm back to the mains earth, through the concrete and rebar. But that's obviously too high, but interesting to know it's not actually isolated.
And I thought the UK was "The Nanny State" - looks like you Aussies are up against the " Know All highly educated can't even wire a plug " Geniuses coming up with all these stoopid Regs !¬!
@@mickeyfilmer5551 They can't even run and terminate their own Data or Telephone cables in Aus. Even certified cablers cannot make up data patch leads they have to be be purchased from a certified manufacturer.
I think the mix of glass panels versus metal railings is perfect. From your decking you get a good almost uninterrupted view of the pool, and the railings are good in terms of cleaning/maintenance. One thing though, please PLEASE tell us we're not going to see Dave splashing about in his budgie smugglers!
Earthing the brackets on wood isn't so crazy - the point is that everything is at the same potential even if an electrical fault makes the whole earthing system live - an "isolated" bracket in wet wood could have enough conductivity to "real" earth to be a plausible hazard.
@@EEVblog2 maybe. I'm sure minds immeasurably superior to ours have done studies, probably with live pigs decades ago, to determine what is and isn't "safe" when it comes to electricity near highly conductive (wet) and inquisitive humans. You just never know what might happen to make that plank "live", lemonade spilt into a portable music player... (Without the RCD tripping). As, I said, belt and braces. Stay safe.
That only makes sense when there are either (very) HV lines nearby (which there aren't) or when somebody can be in contact with two different "earth's" at the same time that are a substantial distance from each other. None of these are true. I have also never seen this done this way, except for the situations I just mentioned. Especially not building something as simple as a pool.
If the Ozzie standards are anything like the British Standards, there shouldn't be any ambiguity with the fence gap. Our standard says that a 100mm SPHERE must not fit through the gap (baby's head?). This stops any jiggery pokery with rulers and such.
I remember way back around 2000 when the new regulations came out about all metal must be grounded. There was key locks on jukeboxes which were mounted on a wooden door. Regulations stated they had to be grounded. So we did it. Then the site engineers started complaining because they were getting nasty shocks every time they put the key in the lock. Turns out because they was walking across carpets, they was building up static and while holding the key and placing it in the lock, they would get a nasty shock because the lock was now grounded whereas it hadn't used to be. So we ended up not crimping the ground wire and telling the engineers just to "pull it out by accident" so they didn't keep on getting static shocks every time they opened the door!
Hi Dave, What no heat shrink on the earth cable joints? That's a bit how ya doing :D That concuit to fence behind the electrical panels is a bit meh. Regards
Yep, the gap between the pool fence and the boundary fence is to be 100mm or less. A strip of Perspex or the like to lessen the gap fastened with tek screws should do the trick for compliance though.
Another possible reason I can come up with for grounding everything is lightning protection, but I'm more familiar with lightning protection for tall structures and telecom so I haven't really thought about how you'd go about doing that for pools or whether that's what this even is.
you think pools are bad, try a tiny 3 person spa... in a fully enclosed locked yard... with a lockable lid... there's a completely unfenced lake across the road... if anyone broke in and drowned in our spa I'd just toss them over there.
What are the conditions for this code? If you've got glass panels sitting in metal spigots, sitting in a concrete or timber base completely isolated from any electrical source (other than lightning strike), why on earth (pun intended) do they need to be earthed? What is the potential source of electricity?
So why didn't they make the gap on the fence @ 6:15 smaller than 100mm if they know the certifier is going to be anal about the gap. Looks like room to either add another post if your gap was already 2400 long for the panel.
It's nice from the neighbors point of view that they take noise from the pump seriously. Considering that you can put the pump far from your patio and close to the neighbor.
For the brackets mounted on the timber that really is nuts . So given the dielectric strength of wood compared to that of air , is it a breach of code to serve poolside drinks on a metal tray ?
That really is insane. Its beyond ridiculous. Wood is a good insulator except at thousands of volts and there aren't any high voltage cables nearby. Dave said later in the video that it is made from recycled plastic/wood chips so its an even better insulator that just pure wood.
Wood is actually conductive. Especially after a rainstorm. It's enough to be a problem for lineworkers because the poles they climb up have to be treated as somewhat earth potential, but not quite. It's earthed enough to be dangerous if you're between it and live mains, and it's not earthed enough to set up the equipotential work zone (basically a "cage" around where you're working - in case someone backfeeds powere from a generator or a bad solar installation. In this case you would have to install a grounding rod, ground the pole, ground the neutral line, then ground the phases. This way if someone actually backfeeds power it will bypass going through you because the pole, neutral, and phases are all at the same potential. The same thing could happen - perhaps something live touches the wood which conducts through the wood. Your pool is effectively grounded - either bonded directly or through being well, the ground. This can lead to a potential difference so someone grabbing the metalwork would get a shock. You also want a low resistance path to ground to trip the breaker. If anything outside isn't on a ground fault breaker which will trip instantly, you want the low resistance to be able to trip the circuit. A 1K load to ground at 240V is merely 240mA - enough to kill, but not enough to trigger a breaker. Even a 10 ohm path to ground would cause 24A to flow which should trip the breaker on a fault. As for the pump - it's all about being neighbourly - you don't want a loud pump because then your neighbours might complain about the noise (they often can complain about things like air conditioners as well). Better to have it checked early when design decisions are cheap to fix than to have it all installed and now you're out thousands more dollars to replace perfectly working equipment.
Huh. In the US and Canada the norm is a ground rod at every pole which is bonded to the neutral. For most jobs the lineworker only needs to attach a temporary ground cable between grounded neutral and each 7200v phase.
As stated by Eevblog AU rules require it within 1.2m of the pool or long arms reach. It is a royal pain in the arse for electricians but it has to be done.
@@simontay4851 I did not mean it that way - I with just pointing out that the bonding requirements for electric AC railways are the same - driven by safety and touch potential issues , for DC railways (as in Sydney) things are slightly different, but similar issues apply.
Australia has very strict fencing rules around pools due to kids drowning. Very high proportion of houses have pools which also equates to lots of drowning.
Australia also has much education around swimming such as "Kids alive do the five" and learning to swim from a young age. Too many children have been found floating dead in pools after being too adventurous and wandering into a yard with an unfenced pool. The gates have to have latches that are inaccessible to young children.
Australia's rules are incredibly strict. I'm forbidden from even having an inflatable paddling pool over 30cm deep by law unless it's got all this style fencing.
@@piotrmadalinski8618 you're right! (btw, fun fact: in the Netherlands there is such a thing called school-swimming, where children at really young ages learn proper swimming, diving, under-water, rescue swimming, etc etc, with official diploma's A, B and C and so forth) I did safe my life-time friend from drowning when I was 6 years old. There's a lot of water (canals, huge ponds, rivers etc) in the Netherlands. Swimming-pools at homes are way less of a "thing" though.
At some point someone doing a charity parachute jump could tragically get blown off course and drown after splashing down in someone's pool and getting tangled in the lines. Then y'all need to brace yourself's for the (retrospective) order to install cope cages (metal cage/fencing constructions installed above Russian tanks to try to protect them from bombs dropped by drones) over your pools. Obviously it will have to have a disabled friendly ladder/lift system so they can safely get themselfs down should the property be empty at the time and not in earshot distance of a neighbour. Especially if the victim happens to be a pretty young lady that whips the media into a "Something must be done - this must never happen again!!!" frenzy. Dam; I might have said too much - hopefully the regulators aren't reading these comments....
Just any metal, no matter if there's not even a slightest chance of a breakdown or eddy currents inducing? It makes as much sense as I have spare cash after losing my job. This reminds me of the discussions among the Polish Electricians' Association about grounding and bonding in bathrooms - whether to ground literally everything (e.g. metal taps on plastic plumbing), or just the parts that can carry a potential from the outside (e.g. metal water main or heating pipes). Fortunately the latter won.
I think the idea is this helps RCDs in the case there is a fault, and the ground points tied back to main earth help ensure the RCD performs optimally in the case of a fault. But I wonder if it is a good idea to make everything metal at ground potential, especially in the case the RCD fails and that failure of the last line of defence is made worse by having earth potential everywhere.
You should know that electrical code/laws are made on top of two piles, one consist of burned and damaged property, the other consist of dead and injured people. The rules are not there to make your life unnecessarily difficult, they are there for damn good reasons even if you think they are stupid.
You missed the most important reason by far - to ensure the continued employment and profits of those that create the rules. Since they can't usually remove earlier rules without admitting they got it wrong, they have to add new ones to each new edition. They must be very clever and creative people to be able to keep dreaming up new requirements that not only have just enough plausibility to avid being laughed out of court, but they are also able to convince enough people that the king's new clothes are very fine indeed. You don't ever expect them to announce that the latest edition is the last ever because every conceivable and inconceivable failure mode, that isn't an end-of-days event, is already covered. Do you?
@@tonyh6309 I know that safety rules is not a static thing, it is a continuously changing thing, and I know that if, especially, safety rules conflicts with peoples which for a design/time schedule/or budget, then they are often very much against the rules for whatever reason they can invent, sorry I have been in business for a long time I have seen these conflicts on almost all projects. Rules are changing often, and sometimes they change a lot, designers, engineers, and craftsmen are sadly not always up to the latest knowledge, or they just don't care, the result is that the bloody rules disturb a design/time schedule/or a tight budget, and they do disturb after the fact because of bad planning or execution of the plan. Some of Dave's issues may not have been there if a better plan had been there, or the execution had paid more attention to details. It is a god idea to know how the final result should be in details and work you way with that in mind during the whole process. How much should the pool had been places in an other spot to make some safety rule not to apply ? not much, but the placement for sure had a impact that could had been avoid.
Oh you can get electrocuted by wood, got called out to a house once you’re in Cleveland by another electrician who couldn’t figure it out. The hot tub in the backyard against the house almost right next to a wooden porch attached to the house had a little issue, you could stand in the hot tub and put your hand on the porch and you’d get zapped ⚡️⚡️ I took my meter and put it in the Hot tub and touch the porch I get like 40 V AC ha ha ha ha ha, keep touching back toward the house the voltage would get higher, Touch it to the Brickhouse and it would go higher 😮 Well that’s not good while you’re standing in a hot tub getting tingly’s ha ha ha ha Took us three hours to find a problem, we first started by flipping breakers till the voltage went away, OK now we’ve got our circuit where is the problem, also this backyard has lots of trees and everything was fairly moist and damp at a lot of the year. After opening every box on this circuit of course it was the very last box not the first one ha ha ha ha never works that way 😖😖 Inside the back door was a three gang switch, opened it up and I find a wire, a hot wire I can’t remember what it was doing but it was touching either the metal box or the actual brick on the back wall there so when you do have these issues most the time you can find them it will take time but you have to be a detective and keep looking. No there’s another house I’ve worked on an inground indoor pool very large at a residence, with a very low weird stray voltage, this was built in the 70s, we’ve worked endlessly at flipping circuits off and doing other things very hard to figure out where the problem is coming from where the leakage is getting into the concrete or what ever The reason this was found, the gentleman who swims in the pool Daley also has a defibrillator or pacemaker, he just had a new one installed and it has yes I guess you install those into a human, and this new one has more data points that they download like monthly, they could see these voltage transients are the new data points 😮 There were discussions with the cardiologists and other things and we’ve looked hard at trying to figure this out the simplest solution we came up with is you have to turn these couple circuits off if you didn’t want this to happen it could be endlessly expensive to try to figure out where this comes from in a completely finished building of concrete and block Also we warned him to just not touch I think it was the light niche underwater and maybe also be touching I forget how we arrived at this but you could avoid it pretty easily but it was interesting that his pacemaker could find this data Anyway, it doesn’t hurt to be a little careful when you’re putting all this stuff together Cheers
Can't lift 60KG with two fingers? You just need to work on your technique, and make sure you get her warmed up first. Oh right, you mean the pool cover door. Thought you meant something else.
If the fencing is attached to the concrete of the pool ergo the fence is grounded... Concrete slabs and structures in contact with the ground are the largest grounding points you have. It's called a ufer ground. In fact we no longer use ground rods for buildings anymore. You run a wire off the rebar in the slab or a piece of rebar up out of the slab and that is your grounding point. It sounds like they are treating all pools like they are fiberglass pools there.
The pool fence will be subject to ongoing compliance inspections. In Western Australia it is at least once every 4 years. I know as I run a team that does them.
@@arthurvin2937 Technically yes, but just hope a child (random or family) doesn't die in your pool/spa in the mean time. I heard jail sucks and they really like bums.
Fencing, Earthing and certification..? But an electrical cabinet made of old cigarr boxes and pegboard from the workshop? This country... Dont know what to say..
"...an electrical cabinet made of old cigarr boxes and pegboard from the workshop" which was compliant when it was installed 40(?) years ago... New installations have to comply with CURRENT regulations.
No matter what your grid provides as 'ground' you want solid conductivity like a faraday cage to anything you can touch. If it's for your self, over engineer that grounding! I have 100mm² around our buildings to keep any potential out. It may help a bit for lightning too, but rise times of those charges are just to much for reason.. just stay away from the pool when the forecast has thunder..
The more important aspect is that everything is bonded to the same potential. If _everything_ is connected to the house's 240v main there's no shock risk because there's be no "real" ground.
No if the main neutral becomes disconnected then the earth becomes the return path so if its not a really good ground then earth can be at 240 volts this has happened and the most publicized was a young girl who was electrocuted by a garden tap she survived but with brain damage. @@eDoc2020
BTW, I measured the metal spigots before the earth wire was installed and they measured from 300ohm to 1kohm back to the mains earth, through the concrete and rebar. But that's obviously too high, but interesting to know it's not actually isolated.
And I thought the UK was "The Nanny State" - looks like you Aussies are up against the " Know All highly educated can't even wire a plug " Geniuses coming up with all these stoopid Regs !¬!
Oooof tiny bit mighty mistake
@@mickeyfilmer5551 There is an observation: Australians are descended from convicts and their jailers.
@@mickeyfilmer5551 They can't even run and terminate their own Data or Telephone cables in Aus. Even certified cablers cannot make up data patch leads they have to be be purchased from a certified manufacturer.
I think the mix of glass panels versus metal railings is perfect. From your decking you get a good almost uninterrupted view of the pool, and the railings are good in terms of cleaning/maintenance.
One thing though, please PLEASE tell us we're not going to see Dave splashing about in his budgie smugglers!
Dave might look striking in a banana hammock
Earthing the brackets on wood isn't so crazy - the point is that everything is at the same potential even if an electrical fault makes the whole earthing system live - an "isolated" bracket in wet wood could have enough conductivity to "real" earth to be a plausible hazard.
Yep, the key word is equipotential, not earth. Belt and braces as we say here.
In that case the wet wood would be enough, no need for the metal.
@@EEVblog2 maybe. I'm sure minds immeasurably superior to ours have done studies, probably with live pigs decades ago, to determine what is and isn't "safe" when it comes to electricity near highly conductive (wet) and inquisitive humans. You just never know what might happen to make that plank "live", lemonade spilt into a portable music player... (Without the RCD tripping). As, I said, belt and braces. Stay safe.
That only makes sense when there are either (very) HV lines nearby (which there aren't) or when somebody can be in contact with two different "earth's" at the same time that are a substantial distance from each other.
None of these are true.
I have also never seen this done this way, except for the situations I just mentioned.
Especially not building something as simple as a pool.
@@p_mouse8676 Until you have a fault in the pool pump making the water live throughout, would you want to be touching anything not equipotential?
Plot twist - they will also require earthing of those metal hinges on glass panels 😅
So that board with the handle and the hinges at 4:50 - those hinges and handle are earthed, right?
If the Ozzie standards are anything like the British Standards, there shouldn't be any ambiguity with the fence gap. Our standard says that a 100mm SPHERE must not fit through the gap (baby's head?). This stops any jiggery pokery with rulers and such.
Ozzie standards are based on UK or USA standards. Few tweaks here and there.
In the US it's a 4 inch sphere, so 101.6 mm.
I remember way back around 2000 when the new regulations came out about all metal must be grounded. There was key locks on jukeboxes which were mounted on a wooden door. Regulations stated they had to be grounded. So we did it. Then the site engineers started complaining because they were getting nasty shocks every time they put the key in the lock. Turns out because they was walking across carpets, they was building up static and while holding the key and placing it in the lock, they would get a nasty shock because the lock was now grounded whereas it hadn't used to be. So we ended up not crimping the ground wire and telling the engineers just to "pull it out by accident" so they didn't keep on getting static shocks every time they opened the door!
Are the hatch handles and hinges also grounded?
LOL, logic would ensure they were...
My first though too when I saw them.
My question as well. Since Dave said it was signed off already I suppose it's not required.
They're connected to the hatch which is already on the ground.
Looks incredible! Hard work and dedication 👍 Good on ya 😎
You never know when Electroboom shows up with his Magic Wand :D
Hi Dave,
What no heat shrink on the earth cable joints? That's a bit how ya doing :D
That concuit to fence behind the electrical panels is a bit meh.
Regards
Yep, the gap between the pool fence and the boundary fence is to be 100mm or less. A strip of Perspex or the like to lessen the gap fastened with tek screws should do the trick for compliance though.
Why does the gap between the fences even fkn matter anyway. Dave can have it how ever he likes.
@@simontay4851 - It is clearly defined in AS1926.1.
Make sure you don't get group loops or the whole pool will be humming ^___^
Even glass is now earthed. Well done! 🤣
Looking good. Is the sideways-facing trampoline Austria-certified or in preparation for Amazon Airdrop?
I had this exact problem last month when I had my pool fence replaced. I thought the guy was taking the piss.
Another possible reason I can come up with for grounding everything is lightning protection, but I'm more familiar with lightning protection for tall structures and telecom so I haven't really thought about how you'd go about doing that for pools or whether that's what this even is.
But noone would be swimming in the pool during a thunder/lightening storm anyway. You'd stay inside.
Looks great. It's really coming together. Home stretch.
you think pools are bad, try a tiny 3 person spa... in a fully enclosed locked yard... with a lockable lid... there's a completely unfenced lake across the road... if anyone broke in and drowned in our spa I'd just toss them over there.
What are the conditions for this code? If you've got glass panels sitting in metal spigots, sitting in a concrete or timber base completely isolated from any electrical source (other than lightning strike), why on earth (pun intended) do they need to be earthed? What is the potential source of electricity?
So why didn't they make the gap on the fence @ 6:15 smaller than 100mm if they know the certifier is going to be anal about the gap. Looks like room to either add another post if your gap was already 2400 long for the panel.
Not a great fencer, apparently.
6:15 "this gap might be too big" Too big for what? Falling through? What utter horse sh!t, its not even BS. Where's your big red BS button, Dave?
It's nice from the neighbors point of view that they take noise from the pump seriously. Considering that you can put the pump far from your patio and close to the neighbor.
Are these bonding cables going to be encased in concrete such that any fault requires major excavation?
Nice !
For the brackets mounted on the timber that really is nuts . So given the dielectric strength of wood compared to that of air , is it a breach of code to serve poolside drinks on a metal tray ?
Hehe..
That really is insane. Its beyond ridiculous. Wood is a good insulator except at thousands of volts and there aren't any high voltage cables nearby. Dave said later in the video that it is made from recycled plastic/wood chips so its an even better insulator that just pure wood.
Don't get too excited Dave,gotta watch that blood pressure.looking good though mate. Are you going to learn how to swim now you have a pool?🏊♀🐳
lol you relied on contractors to comply with the standard?
Is ground tying glass fence spigots a new thing? As in the last few years? Do they also require grounding of metallic furniture like sun beds?
So the real danger of large bodies of water in AU is electrocution, not drowning?
...and I thought our earthing/grounding rules in Canada were nuts! Gotta love regulatory capture :)
Better safe than sorry!
Looks really nice. I have not a jot of envy, honestly guv’
Wood is actually conductive. Especially after a rainstorm. It's enough to be a problem for lineworkers because the poles they climb up have to be treated as somewhat earth potential, but not quite. It's earthed enough to be dangerous if you're between it and live mains, and it's not earthed enough to set up the equipotential work zone (basically a "cage" around where you're working - in case someone backfeeds powere from a generator or a bad solar installation. In this case you would have to install a grounding rod, ground the pole, ground the neutral line, then ground the phases. This way if someone actually backfeeds power it will bypass going through you because the pole, neutral, and phases are all at the same potential.
The same thing could happen - perhaps something live touches the wood which conducts through the wood. Your pool is effectively grounded - either bonded directly or through being well, the ground. This can lead to a potential difference so someone grabbing the metalwork would get a shock. You also want a low resistance path to ground to trip the breaker. If anything outside isn't on a ground fault breaker which will trip instantly, you want the low resistance to be able to trip the circuit. A 1K load to ground at 240V is merely 240mA - enough to kill, but not enough to trigger a breaker. Even a 10 ohm path to ground would cause 24A to flow which should trip the breaker on a fault.
As for the pump - it's all about being neighbourly - you don't want a loud pump because then your neighbours might complain about the noise (they often can complain about things like air conditioners as well). Better to have it checked early when design decisions are cheap to fix than to have it all installed and now you're out thousands more dollars to replace perfectly working equipment.
Huh. In the US and Canada the norm is a ground rod at every pole which is bonded to the neutral. For most jobs the lineworker only needs to attach a temporary ground cable between grounded neutral and each 7200v phase.
I thought Dave said it was reconstituted plastic - not solid wood.
He did say that. Its made from recycled plastic and wood chip.
But this is just a pool, its not a fkn power line pole.
Hey I didn't know that they earth fence also like that
As stated by Eevblog AU rules require it within 1.2m of the pool or long arms reach. It is a royal pain in the arse for electricians but it has to be done.
do I hear "CANNON BALL" ?
Why are the codes in Australia so strict on pool certification?
See Mike's comment here and the responses.
Too many kids have died.
@@xyzconceptsYTGood on them
You realise that you're now going to have to bond all metalwork outside the fence that's within reaching distance, 1.2m, as well?
That's effectively what has to happen around electrified railways.
But this is not an electric railway. Its a just a pool. The nearest train line is miles away.
@@simontay4851 I did not mean it that way - I with just pointing out that the bonding requirements for electric AC railways are the same - driven by safety and touch potential issues , for DC railways (as in Sydney) things are slightly different, but similar issues apply.
Those certifications for are a bit mad Dave!
It’s interesting, it appears that it’s stranded wire. In the US solid is required.. hmm… interesting
Solid core wire is required for what? I don't know rules for specific circumstances but for general ground wires stranded is just fine.
ngl seems kinda weird that the construction folks have such a hard time following the regulations.
Maybe Dave's prompting got them to over think it?
A metal bracket bolted to concrete or wood, holding up a glass panel, how are they expecting the bracket to become energized?
Yeah, Dave should ask the "certification man" that exact question and see what BS he can come up with. Realistically, it couldn't. Its impossible.
Sorry to say, but the hinges on that glass will likely end this project. Unless you have gotten yourself conductive glass.
Why the fence all round the pool ? Animals? Safety requirement for kids?
Australia has very strict fencing rules around pools due to kids drowning. Very high proportion of houses have pools which also equates to lots of drowning.
A kid drowned in a backyard pool in last suburb I lived in a few years back, it happens far too often.
Kids. As Jim said. Pools are very common here, so the statistics add up.
Australia also has much education around swimming such as "Kids alive do the five" and learning to swim from a young age. Too many children have been found floating dead in pools after being too adventurous and wandering into a yard with an unfenced pool. The gates have to have latches that are inaccessible to young children.
Australia's rules are incredibly strict. I'm forbidden from even having an inflatable paddling pool over 30cm deep by law unless it's got all this style fencing.
And what about the metal hinges???
Use the (earth)Force!
I do hope for a pool-party once it is finished ;-)
Never knew such strict regulations, learned something today!
ps: what's next? Pool can only be filled with "certified" water?
@@InspectorGadget2014 Don't joke about that please, or it'll be in next years regulations.
Wait.... water in a pool? Are you insane? People could drown in this stuff! The only safe thing to do is to fill the pool back with certified dirt.
@@piotrmadalinski8618 you're right! (btw, fun fact: in the Netherlands there is such a thing called school-swimming, where children at really young ages learn proper swimming, diving, under-water, rescue swimming, etc etc, with official diploma's A, B and C and so forth)
I did safe my life-time friend from drowning when I was 6 years old. There's a lot of water (canals, huge ponds, rivers etc) in the Netherlands.
Swimming-pools at homes are way less of a "thing" though.
So when the gate is opened it not earthed?
That part doesn't have to be as it's more than 1.2m from the pool edge.
At some point someone doing a charity parachute jump could tragically get blown off course and drown after splashing down in someone's pool and getting tangled in the lines. Then y'all need to brace yourself's for the (retrospective) order to install cope cages (metal cage/fencing constructions installed above Russian tanks to try to protect them from bombs dropped by drones) over your pools. Obviously it will have to have a disabled friendly ladder/lift system so they can safely get themselfs down should the property be empty at the time and not in earshot distance of a neighbour. Especially if the victim happens to be a pretty young lady that whips the media into a "Something must be done - this must never happen again!!!" frenzy. Dam; I might have said too much - hopefully the regulators aren't reading these comments....
Just any metal, no matter if there's not even a slightest chance of a breakdown or eddy currents inducing? It makes as much sense as I have spare cash after losing my job.
This reminds me of the discussions among the Polish Electricians' Association about grounding and bonding in bathrooms - whether to ground literally everything (e.g. metal taps on plastic plumbing), or just the parts that can carry a potential from the outside (e.g. metal water main or heating pipes). Fortunately the latter won.
I think the idea is this helps RCDs in the case there is a fault, and the ground points tied back to main earth help ensure the RCD performs optimally in the case of a fault. But I wonder if it is a good idea to make everything metal at ground potential, especially in the case the RCD fails and that failure of the last line of defence is made worse by having earth potential everywhere.
Rio*
You should know that electrical code/laws are made on top of two piles, one consist of burned and damaged property, the other consist of dead and injured people. The rules are not there to make your life unnecessarily difficult, they are there for damn good reasons even if you think they are stupid.
Wow, someone who gets it!
The third is to make sure there is a constant demand for equipment manufacturer's products. e.g. outlet spacing, etc...
You missed the most important reason by far - to ensure the continued employment and profits of those that create the rules. Since they can't usually remove earlier rules without admitting they got it wrong, they have to add new ones to each new edition. They must be very clever and creative people to be able to keep dreaming up new requirements that not only have just enough plausibility to avid being laughed out of court, but they are also able to convince enough people that the king's new clothes are very fine indeed. You don't ever expect them to announce that the latest edition is the last ever because every conceivable and inconceivable failure mode, that isn't an end-of-days event, is already covered. Do you?
@@tonyh6309 I know that safety rules is not a static thing, it is a continuously changing thing, and I know that if, especially, safety rules conflicts with peoples which for a design/time schedule/or budget, then they are often very much against the rules for whatever reason they can invent, sorry I have been in business for a long time I have seen these conflicts on almost all projects.
Rules are changing often, and sometimes they change a lot, designers, engineers, and craftsmen are sadly not always up to the latest knowledge, or they just don't care, the result is that the bloody rules disturb a design/time schedule/or a tight budget, and they do disturb after the fact because of bad planning or execution of the plan.
Some of Dave's issues may not have been there if a better plan had been there, or the execution had paid more attention to details. It is a god idea to know how the final result should be in details and work you way with that in mind during the whole process. How much should the pool had been places in an other spot to make some safety rule not to apply ? not much, but the placement for sure had a impact that could had been avoid.
Then explain the fire starters on the roof with the solar panels , what could go wrong with a plastic switch in the open on a hot roof!
Health and safety gone mad
🙄 Looking smart though.
Earfed 👍
Are you really just pouring 10 cm of concrete on top of the ground? Lmao that's gonna move and crack.
why would a pool need to be grounded?
Exactly. Its literally in the ground already.
Oh you can get electrocuted by wood, got called out to a house once you’re in Cleveland by another electrician who couldn’t figure it out.
The hot tub in the backyard against the house almost right next to a wooden porch attached to the house had a little issue, you could stand in the hot tub and put your hand on the porch and you’d get zapped ⚡️⚡️
I took my meter and put it in the Hot tub and touch the porch I get like 40 V AC ha ha ha ha ha, keep touching back toward the house the voltage would get higher, Touch it to the Brickhouse and it would go higher 😮
Well that’s not good while you’re standing in a hot tub getting tingly’s ha ha ha ha
Took us three hours to find a problem, we first started by flipping breakers till the voltage went away, OK now we’ve got our circuit where is the problem, also this backyard has lots of trees and everything was fairly moist and damp at a lot of the year.
After opening every box on this circuit of course it was the very last box not the first one ha ha ha ha never works that way 😖😖
Inside the back door was a three gang switch, opened it up and I find a wire, a hot wire I can’t remember what it was doing but it was touching either the metal box or the actual brick on the back wall there so when you do have these issues most the time you can find them it will take time but you have to be a detective and keep looking.
No there’s another house I’ve worked on an inground indoor pool very large at a residence, with a very low weird stray voltage, this was built in the 70s, we’ve worked endlessly at flipping circuits off and doing other things very hard to figure out where the problem is coming from where the leakage is getting into the concrete or what ever
The reason this was found, the gentleman who swims in the pool Daley also has a defibrillator or pacemaker, he just had a new one installed and it has yes I guess you install those into a human, and this new one has more data points that they download like monthly, they could see these voltage transients are the new data points 😮
There were discussions with the cardiologists and other things and we’ve looked hard at trying to figure this out the simplest solution we came up with is you have to turn these couple circuits off if you didn’t want this to happen it could be endlessly expensive to try to figure out where this comes from in a completely finished building of concrete and block
Also we warned him to just not touch I think it was the light niche underwater and maybe also be touching I forget how we arrived at this but you could avoid it pretty easily but it was interesting that his pacemaker could find this data
Anyway, it doesn’t hurt to be a little careful when you’re putting all this stuff together
Cheers
Good enough for Australia, unless it's a pool.
Can't lift 60KG with two fingers? You just need to work on your technique, and make sure you get her warmed up first.
Oh right, you mean the pool cover door. Thought you meant something else.
If the fencing is attached to the concrete of the pool ergo the fence is grounded... Concrete slabs and structures in contact with the ground are the largest grounding points you have. It's called a ufer ground. In fact we no longer use ground rods for buildings anymore. You run a wire off the rebar in the slab or a piece of rebar up out of the slab and that is your grounding point.
It sounds like they are treating all pools like they are fiberglass pools there.
Are you gonna remove that stupid fencing after everything is certified?
The pool fence will be subject to ongoing compliance inspections. In Western Australia it is at least once every 4 years. I know as I run a team that does them.
@@xyzconceptsYT ok, but I can reinstall fencing just for inspection :)
@@arthurvin2937 Technically yes, but just hope a child (random or family) doesn't die in your pool/spa in the mean time. I heard jail sucks and they really like bums.
@@xyzconceptsYT Am I also responsible for my dogs if they bit some random child who illegally protruded to my property? 🤔
@@arthurvin2937 Actually, yes.
Fencing, Earthing and certification..? But an electrical cabinet made of old cigarr boxes and pegboard from the workshop?
This country... Dont know what to say..
"...an electrical cabinet made of old cigarr boxes and pegboard from the workshop" which was compliant when it was installed 40(?) years ago...
New installations have to comply with CURRENT regulations.
No matter what your grid provides as 'ground' you want solid conductivity like a faraday cage to anything you can touch.
If it's for your self, over engineer that grounding!
I have 100mm² around our buildings to keep any potential out.
It may help a bit for lightning too, but rise times of those charges are just to much for reason.. just stay away from the pool when the forecast has thunder..
So glad I live in an area where there is no permitting enforced and barely any even on the books.
To me this is madness if the neutral becomes disconnected and the earth rod is not good all this could become live!
?
The more important aspect is that everything is bonded to the same potential. If _everything_ is connected to the house's 240v main there's no shock risk because there's be no "real" ground.
No if the main neutral becomes disconnected then the earth becomes the return path so if its not a really good ground then earth can be at 240 volts this has happened and the most publicized was a young girl who was electrocuted by a garden tap she survived but with brain damage. @@eDoc2020