I just HAVE TO make you aware that this was probably one of the best (easy for me to understand/follow along), videos on this topic that I’ve ever seen. I’m now subscribed sir 🎉
I’ve been using prores raw and the issues you mentioned about time remaining is because prores raw is a variable bitrate and it displays the worst case scenario, the seconds then count down relevant to the actual bitrate. If you’re shooting a detailed scene with lots of movement you get less recording time. So its not something that can really be fixed, maybe just explained. Really useful video 😁
Prores raw would be especially good if Sony allowed open gate so we could use the entire sensor when shooting video... Most people don't realize that we're all losing resolution on the vertical which would allow us more crop options in post as well as using a 2X anamorphic lens if we wanted.
At high ISO's, ProRes Raw cleans up incredibly well using noise reduction software. Once applied, you'll be amazed how much better footage looks compared to in-camera--much sharper and cleaner.
@@FesliyanStudios The best one hands down is Neat Video! It is a little pricy, but worth every dollar! The in-built in DaVinci Resolve is also pretty ok
@@FesliyanStudios I use Davinci Resolve and use their own noise reduction built-in to the studio version. I have also used Neat Video NR in the past and that's a great plug-in that will work with Premiere. There are others too, but never tried them.
1:57 A better way to let us compare is to have labeled footage, one after the other, and have a JUMP CUT between them, so we can use the frame forward/backward keys on our keyboards (comma and period keys) to toggle between them in an instant. Not taking time between transitions is more important the more subtle the difference is. I really like what looks like increased sharpness in the RAW versions, but retaining it after NR will be key. Great video, BTW! To the point and answers exactly the questions we have!
I mainly bought my 'Ninja V' (Arriving Friday) as a monitor and as a cheaper, long term storage when compared to SD cards. What I might do, is use PreRes RAW and do a shoot in S-Log3, as I still think S-Log3 isn't great on the a7s iii when compared to the fs7 and other bigger Sony cameras. What I am really looking forward to, is the false colours and scopes on the Ninja V. As I will be abel to nail exposure everytime VS the tiny monitor on the a7s iii.
I needed this ...thanks man you just saved me alot of money .. i wanted to go for a7siii and atmos now i know i can just go for sonh a7iv and yet get better photo resolution
I just got the fx3 with atomos ninja v mainly to shoot in lowlight because this the the "LOWLIGHT KING". It`s not. I`ve had a bmpcc4k before and the color science is better in bmpcc and the 1250 iso (the second native) is similar to 12800 on sony but 99% less noisier (slog 3 or prores raw). The only advantages on the sony are as follows : the focus is great great great, the internal stabilization is good (much better if you shoot slog3, not in prores raw because you got also the steadyshot option), more battery life bla bla bla. My advice is as follows. DONT SHOOT PRORES RAW (NORMAL OR HQ) because you cannot get rid of the noise (even if you are properly exposing). If you use DaVinci(dont use prores rawbecause you cannot see the footage) IF YOU HAVE A ATI VIDEO CARD PRORES RAW IS NOT WORKING BECAUSE APPLE POLICY. So. Buy the FX3, Take an atomos ninja v second hand,(cheaper thanbuying cards and also you have a great external monitor) shoot only on slog3 with stabilization active DONT SHOOT IN 12800 iso in lowlight(is crap), NEVER shoot prores raw because you get more noise and artefacts in the midtones than in shadows (doesnt matter if you expose perfectly from 0,7 to 2,0). No one from the internet are saying what is true (just 25-30 %of the problems). So sony is not the LOWLIGHT KING!!! Not at this time
I 've been shooting with the A7SIII and Ninja V in RAW since Sept 24th. It's why I bought the A7SIII. Why on earth would anyone shoot differently??? Don't answer that, O.K.
@@NOlimitsON I expose ISO 640 or 12800 1.5-2.0 stops, further adjusting exposure using PMVND filters. I color grade in Premiere with FilmConvert. If you expose properly, there is very little noise, if any at all. Only use base ISO's.
Anyone could shoot differently by a couple of reasons, main of those for me: 1. I'm fond of davinci resolve and Prores Raw forces me to use stupid workarounds with converting which consume additional time and storage space; 2. you have no noise reduction and lens correction, and if you can easily deal with former, you can have a headache with latter as you usually should manually mess with geometry sliders and its a pain.
Great video I found the exact same thing. The ninja is a little bit sharper and yes has more color in contrast to begin with in the image which is good. Yet the internal signal side-by-side is pretty darn close once you match them
I think what these camera manufacturers need to address is what we still need to include 'processing' wise in camera. Clearly, we want to be able to shoot RAW but still get the lens distortion correction and the noise reduction. With Blackmagic BRAW at least, we have a choice of quality settings that can reduce files sizes. I have the BMD Video Assist 12G because my PC just struggles so bad with Long GOP 10-Bit files. And transcoding takes forever. BRAW scrubs like butter but then having to apply lens correction and noise reduction makes it redundant IMHO as they are two of the most computationally intensive processes you can do in Davinci Resolve. So I will be using the "DNx 10-Bit 422" options on the recorder. I'll get the smooth editing, the dynamic range will be the same, and I'll still get the lens correction and noise reduction in-camera. Another nice 'option' would be if the camera manufacturers would maybe give us DNx/ProRes "14bit 422" or even "12bit 422" as well as RAW/BRAW. Just if anyone from BMD or Panasonic is listening.
Actually the noise reduction in camera is a bad thing unless you are not going to do any post processing which would defeat the purpose of using raw. But the post noise reduction like neat video is much better than the in camera one, especially in high iso.
my main interest in the ninja V is being able to control the amount of noise in the image rather than being forced to use sony's noise reduction, as phillip bloom showed in his review you can use post software like neat video to clean up the noise spectacularly but it doesnt work well with the internal noise reduction. Anyways thanks for this video, started watching your channel and i love your videos.
Thanks for watching and commenting! You are totally right) But this denoise process is very tough for your computer... Really appreciate your support my friend!
RAW recording is absolutely necessary if you're looking for the best possible IQ, as you are able to control the noise yourself on your computer, and get much better results than the A7siii's internal denoiser. However, if IQ is not necessary, then obviously internal recording is fine.
Hello. Gh5s owner. How do you do e noise Réduction with fcpx? (Built in plugin? Neat video? ). Also what about the lens distortion? (Alex 4d? Any better solution)
I hope someone can help me. I have done several side by side tests showing Prores Raw being recorded 3 stops darker than Prores HQ (using the exact same camera settings). Any idea why this is happening?
Thank you for this video! I don't even have and A7SIII, and probably will not (I have an A7III and A6400 I'm happy with these cameras), but as a geek I love this kind of videos! Very useful!
Hey great video. I’m new to editing and looking for a new camera. Photographer mainly coming from Nikon. The canon R6 mk II suits me but the Sony is nice also. My question, isn’t the ninja a better choice for anyone shooting because ProRes plays back so well and looks so good? As well as the latter monitor? Do Sony files play no problem in mbp M1 Max? I’m trying to figure out whether I go Canon or Sony am I just saving myself time using a ninja?
Hi, thx for the great video! So ProRes Raw is exposed the same as Slog? In other words around +1.7EV for most scenarios. Correct? So strange that that ProRes Raw does such a terrible job when underexposed by a stop. It should in theory be the exact opposite, if ProRes Raw is indeed 12 bit Log in scale. So when you exposed the A7SIII it gave a 0EV reading on the A7SIII screen, correct? Thx again !
Hey, thank you! Yes, exposing is the same - protecting your highlight and exposing at +1,7 - +2 EV. ProRes Raw should be performing better after applying Neat Video Denoise - so I’ll make a separate video about it + there are new ProRes Raw ISO control and WB should be already added
There is still some conflicting information out there on whether the cleaner image at 4 stops over base ISO is the result of dual native ISO or just in camera noise reduction. Can you confirm that the image cleans up in ProRes Raw as well when switching ISO from 10k to 12.8k? Do you think the camera actually has dual native ISO or not?
Yes, I do confirm that in RAW the image gets clearer when switching to 12800 ISO from 10 000, I do think it's a dual native ISO camera, but 12800 has slightly less dynamic range though, that is why it can not be officialy called the dual native ISO.
Hey) Yes, you do get more detail and sharpness using RAW plus noise reduction in post. Philip Bloom shot in RAW in lowlight a lot and results were very impressive! I'd say it is worth shooting in RAW even in lowlight
Unbelievable video. Thank you. I'm running into an issue on the Ninja & A7siii. When i select ProRes raw or ProRes HQ - The ninja shows me the feed from the camera. When I select standard ProRes (HQ, LT, 422), my Ninja says "No input". Any ideas?
Thanx! I think it might be an HDMI Cable issue... did you try another one? Or if it's not in the cable can you send me to insta DM the photos of your Ninja V settings where you choose camera and profile and of your Sony a7s III the HDMI output settings - we'll try to solve this problem))
@@NOlimitsON Hey - Turns out that I needed to turn off "Raw Output" in HDMI settings. Thanks for your help. Another quick question (if you have the time)... Can (and how) you record prores 420 on the ninja?
Hey nice vid, I wanna get that Hdmi cable thats right angle that u have does it work with 4k 60p on the ninja v?? I want one so its easy to handheld the a7siii without alot on it so its not weird
Thanks for the comparison, it took cheaper cameras 30 years to catch up with true pro specs, (Thank you panasonic for starting it with the Gh5). But I wish you would pause every now and then to take a breath of air between sentences :-)
I don't see a big difference between ProRes HQ and 422 and LT, but it's really different from RAW... so I don't use RAW in my workflow, I use ProRes LT and it's more than enough
First off, great comparison. Thanks for putting in the time! Secondly, you mention the noise performance not being as good in RAW, but I would just like to point out that if you actually need to shoot RAW for a project it's probably because you're a professional who's shooting pretty expensive stuff, in which case you'll already have a noise reduction post workflow that negates the need for it in camera, and quite likely does a better job... just a thought.
Thanks for the video, and thanks for debunking the myth that RAW has some magical ability to recover highlights that would otherwise be blown using the 10-bit codecs. And thank you for the "fun part" at 2:35 where we get to see all the wonderful colors of 8-bit LOG. It's very... um... special.
Here is some copy from a company selling 32bit float audio recording: "Users can treat audio like photographers use the RAW camera photo format. You don’t need to worry about the gain of the recorded audio. All details can simply be adjusted in post-production, significantly reducing pre-shoot preparation time. Recorded too low? Simply raise the volume without raising the noise floor."
Отличный тест! Спасибо! Разница между внутренней и внешней записью скорее всего связана с тем что внутренняя находится в legal range, а внешняя записывается с full swing. Так было уже сто лет на рекордерах Атомос. По шуму камера разочаровала. Напомнило шумы на старушке FS700R, видимо, это какое-то проклятие у сони. Спрашивается, где здесь пресловутые 16 бит, если тени так сильно шумят. Даже учитывая что это вещи напрямую не связанные, пользы видимо от этих 16 бит нету, т.к. новые 12 битные камеры типа S1H или S5 в видео DP Journey шумят намного меньше. Как по мне, тестирование на ISO25600 пожалуй, бесполезное, лучше было на базовых побольше сделать т.к. на таких значениях нормальные люди не снимают) В общем, видимо, останусь на Пакете 4К. Новые камеры всё выходят и выходят, но компромиссы остаются)
@@NOlimitsON thabks no limit Also, i bought some expensive sd cards for my fx3 If i use the ninja v, i wont need these right, Just an ssd? What projects would you use memory cards vs ninja v then?
Hey! Sure! S-Cinetone is just a picture profile overall, but only in regular ProRes, not ProRes RAW. In ProRes RAW the internal recording will always be in S-Log3
@@NOlimitsON Doesn't work for me. In order to shoot in Pro-Res, I have to set my camera output to raw, which defaults back to S-log with desaturated colors. If I'm doing something wrong, I'd really like to know what it is. When I turn off or unplug the Ninja from my a7siii, the camera goes back to s-cinetone.
@@ratt57 If you mean the regular ProRes (Not RAW), you don't have to put your camera in RAW output. Just set you HDMI out to auto or 2160p and turn off RAW output. And you can set any PP and record ProRes (not ProRes RAW) on the Ninja V
Wish we could reduce the NR with the internal codec, not a fan of loss in detail. I prefer proresraw when I can use it but hate the extra bulk at times.
It's pretty simple - go to the upper right corner, hit the remaining recording time, than hit the media tab and there you'll see the format button) Or you can watch my in-depth Ninja V review to know all the features and functions))
*ISO and Colour Temperature is now unlocked and available, but only in Final Cut Pro X, and only if you have downloaded and installed the latest two patches on Catalina 10.15.6 ot 10.15.7 (I don't know about Big Sur ?). The problem with your tests is it's posted on TH-cam, and the tube only gives you an 8 Bit 4:2:0 colour space and 256 level of grey scale to work with. Also, TH-cam is crushing your blacks and highlights, so no one can actually see much of the differences to which your testing is referring to.*
Mark, thank you for the info, but I've uploaded the original file to the cloud service and said about it in the video and in the description)) I knew about TH-cam Compression and that is why I uploaded the file))
What is more ridiculous that LOG 8bit is using reduced saturation in camera to allow room for changing it in post. The format has a fixed PSNR, so the lower chroma is recorded, the lower the quality will be, the more blocky and lower in precision it will be, and the worse it will look when you raise it in post. If you want good saturation with high chroma precision, you have to get it in camera. The same applies to reduced sharpness. The only advantage of LOG is the raised shadows. Those are recorded with better quality because they are recorded higher. You will be extending the midrange if you want to reduce them in post though, and the midrange is usually more important. If you get the look in camera, congratulations. You have optimized the compression and overall image quality, by processing the image in the highest precision representation it will ever have, and you will do less in the lower precision representations that will follow
@@NOlimitsON that would be awesome actually! Quick question if you see this - but I was shooting in raw yesterday with some blue and purple hair lights. It looked fine on my ninja but when I imported the files to Premiere Pro they were highly oversaturated and didn't look like raw or log footage at all. Am I doing something wrong? Lol!
@@AshleyGonzalez-hh6up I think it's because of the wrong interpretation of RAW in your editing software. Check out my new Video on ProRes RAW - there I show the workflow
Now that ISO metadata is supported for prores raw from atomos ninja, could prores raw technically recover overly exposed shots by lowering the ISO in final cut pro x?
if you have room for it, for instance you shot at ISO 2000 and overexposed strongly - than yes, you'll be able to recover the highlights, at least in theory, I need to check it on my FCP, but if you shot during midday with iso 100 f1,4 and 1/50 shutter with no ND filter on - the data will be unrecoverable for sure
Highlight recovery is a myth. If it reaches full scale, it's full scale, it's lost. Cameras allow 3-5 stops of exposure over the subject, but that's normal dynamic range that is required to cover a normal scene, not room for error. Shooting at extremely flat lighting and claiming there is such a thing as highlight recovery for 3-4 stops is ridiculous. There is a type of recovery that works. The one using the area the cameras use to clip all three channels into white without the partially clipped false color look. But that is minimal and looks bad. It's practically useless. There is no such thing as shadow recovery either. If you have a high dynamic range and a format with high PSNR (or RAW), you can boost shadows and raise noise at the same time. That is not recovery, it's merely a change in exposure after the actual exposure, using an exposure that did not fit the scene, with all the disadvantages. Long story short, exposure is critical if you want to get the best image quality. Highlight recovery is impossible. Boosting shadows has noise cost.
Why were you using XAVC-S & not XAVC-I? Much better codec. Also there was no mention of using denoising with Neat Video which makes RAW so much better than XAVC internal as it preserves almost all the detail & remains sharp. In essence, RAW is better for underexposed shots & you said the opposite.
I was using XAVC-S because it’s a much more convenient codec in terms of storage and I compared all the codecs in my iPhone 12 Pro Max vs a7s3 video and saw no difference in quality what do ever... I’ll make a separate video about lowlight performance in RAW and I’ll use neat video and compare RAW and internal formats. So after all the tests I’ll for sure find out the best option) thank you for the comment, it motivates me a lot to continue ☺️
Your video was quite educational. I liked how you saturated the colors so we could see the gradiant changes. That has been one of the best illustrations I have seen for the newbie. --> me
@@NOlimitsON it doesn't. also the waveform is not accurate. i end up monitoring native , relaying on the false colors. too bad i can't take advantage of the beatifull hdr screen.
Why does your camera shows in 25fps? Mine is all in 24, 30, 60 and 120fps. Is there a big difference? I have been shooting in 24, 30 or 60 my whole life 😂
Because I live in PAL area in Russia and here we use 25, 50, 100p. And you live in NTSC area - 24,30,60,120p. But you can easily switch the area in camera and shoot in different frame rate) just google for PAL and NTSC for more detailed info 😎
Nope same shit different label. you will not increase the dynamic range from an camera with Pro RES footage compared to internal LOG footage if thats what you think.
@@NOlimitsON It is very low/dull and it sounds like you are talking under a "blanket". Do not get me wrong. I want to try out ProRes and the comparison was very interesting. But the sound was not very clear.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that... There’s a sea of aspiring filmmakers out there who could use the benefits of RAW for their beginning projects and. $3500 camera that will help produce incredible images and won’t break the bank. Then when their work gets noticed (if it’s good enough) they can make the jump to higher end cinema cameras.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GgeGQOP10RQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Will you use ProRes RAW on Sony a7s III?
#Sony #Atomos #NinjaV #AtomosNinjaV #ProRes #ProResRAW #Sonya7sIII #Sonya7s3 #ProRes422
nope... too much hassle for the performance.
10 bit internal is still one of the most balanced options when it comes to performance and practicality.
Sure! Totally agree, my friend!
So balanced camera makers won't just give it to us on cameras capable of it so they can charge more for their cinema line -_-
It crashes premiere with Macs
@@damawsomedan you should shoot on 4k si mode.
@@bymark6207 yes that what im referring to the xavc-si is an absolute nightmare to use in premiere. My 16in macbook can decode h265 better than the Si
I just HAVE TO make you aware that this was probably one of the best (easy for me to understand/follow along), videos on this topic that I’ve ever seen. I’m now subscribed sir 🎉
Thanks mate) I appreciate it!
Love love love LOVE how you put all the lens and settings details in the corner of every clip!!! Thank you for the great video! Definitely subscribed
Thank you! I appreciate it)
I’ve been using prores raw and the issues you mentioned about time remaining is because prores raw is a variable bitrate and it displays the worst case scenario, the seconds then count down relevant to the actual bitrate. If you’re shooting a detailed scene with lots of movement you get less recording time. So its not something that can really be fixed, maybe just explained. Really useful video 😁
Thank you!
@@NOlimitsON 😁
You have done a great job buddy 🙏🏻 Thank you for the comparaison
Thank you! I appreciate it!
Prores raw would be especially good if Sony allowed open gate so we could use the entire sensor when shooting video... Most people don't realize that we're all losing resolution on the vertical which would allow us more crop options in post as well as using a 2X anamorphic lens if we wanted.
That's true! Thank you for mentioning))
PRR is 4.2K, 25% more rez than internal.
@@JonPais It is still 16:9... Give us the full 3:2!
@@willmannering it really sucks that only two or three manufacturers seem to give af about anamorphic.
"Of course nobody grades like this."
Me: That's right!...Quietly deletes over-graded videos...🤣🤫
😂
At high ISO's, ProRes Raw cleans up incredibly well using noise reduction software. Once applied, you'll be amazed how much better footage looks compared to in-camera--much sharper and cleaner.
Great! I definitely need to try it out!
What software do you recommend to reduce the noise? Any way to do it quickly in Premiere?
@@FesliyanStudios The best one hands down is Neat Video! It is a little pricy, but worth every dollar! The in-built in DaVinci Resolve is also pretty ok
@@FesliyanStudios I use Davinci Resolve and use their own noise reduction built-in to the studio version. I have also used Neat Video NR in the past and that's a great plug-in that will work with Premiere. There are others too, but never tried them.
Neat Video - 100%
Just bought a Ninja V and this was very helpful. Thank you!
Welcome Jonny! Stay tuned mate)
1:57 A better way to let us compare is to have labeled footage, one after the other, and have a JUMP CUT between them, so we can use the frame forward/backward keys on our keyboards (comma and period keys) to toggle between them in an instant. Not taking time between transitions is more important the more subtle the difference is.
I really like what looks like increased sharpness in the RAW versions, but retaining it after NR will be key.
Great video, BTW! To the point and answers exactly the questions we have!
I mainly bought my 'Ninja V' (Arriving Friday) as a monitor and as a cheaper, long term storage when compared to SD cards.
What I might do, is use PreRes RAW and do a shoot in S-Log3, as I still think S-Log3 isn't great on the a7s iii when compared to the fs7 and other bigger Sony cameras.
What I am really looking forward to, is the false colours and scopes on the Ninja V. As I will be abel to nail exposure everytime VS the tiny monitor on the a7s iii.
Thank you for the comment) Great choice! I also own Sony FS7 and going to compare it against Sony a7s III, so stay tuned for that video)
@@NOlimitsON Great. I know the fs7 loses in lower light situations, but I always thought the fs7's S-log3 looked great in good lighting.
@@williamayton3148 it definitely is great in good lighting, but we'll see in straight comparison))
I needed this ...thanks man you just saved me alot of money .. i wanted to go for a7siii and atmos now i know i can just go for sonh a7iv and yet get better photo resolution
Thank you bro)
Perfect demonstration and substantial information as usual 🎉
Thanks mate)
Thanks for the comparisons. Looks like Sony did a great job with the internal recording.
Welcome) stay tuned)
I just got the fx3 with atomos ninja v mainly to shoot in lowlight because this the the "LOWLIGHT KING". It`s not. I`ve had a bmpcc4k before and the color science is better in bmpcc and the 1250 iso (the second native) is similar to 12800 on sony but 99% less noisier (slog 3 or prores raw). The only advantages on the sony are as follows : the focus is great great great, the internal stabilization is good (much better if you shoot slog3, not in prores raw because you got also the steadyshot option), more battery life bla bla bla. My advice is as follows. DONT SHOOT PRORES RAW (NORMAL OR HQ) because you cannot get rid of the noise (even if you are properly exposing). If you use DaVinci(dont use prores rawbecause you cannot see the footage) IF YOU HAVE A ATI VIDEO CARD PRORES RAW IS NOT WORKING BECAUSE APPLE POLICY. So. Buy the FX3, Take an atomos ninja v second hand,(cheaper thanbuying cards and also you have a great external monitor) shoot only on slog3 with stabilization active DONT SHOOT IN 12800 iso in lowlight(is crap), NEVER shoot prores raw because you get more noise and artefacts in the midtones than in shadows (doesnt matter if you expose perfectly from 0,7 to 2,0). No one from the internet are saying what is true (just 25-30 %of the problems). So sony is not the LOWLIGHT KING!!! Not at this time
I 've been shooting with the A7SIII and Ninja V in RAW since Sept 24th. It's why I bought the A7SIII. Why on earth would anyone shoot differently??? Don't answer that, O.K.
Thanx for watching) tell us about your experience and how do you expose, color grade and deal with the noise?
@@NOlimitsON I expose ISO 640 or 12800 1.5-2.0 stops, further adjusting exposure using PMVND filters. I color grade in Premiere with FilmConvert. If you expose properly, there is very little noise, if any at all. Only use base ISO's.
@@ShadowsofSmoke totally agree my friend))
Anyone could shoot differently by a couple of reasons, main of those for me: 1. I'm fond of davinci resolve and Prores Raw forces me to use stupid workarounds with converting which consume additional time and storage space; 2. you have no noise reduction and lens correction, and if you can easily deal with former, you can have a headache with latter as you usually should manually mess with geometry sliders and its a pain.
Great video I found the exact same thing. The ninja is a little bit sharper and yes has more color in contrast to begin with in the image which is good. Yet the internal signal side-by-side is pretty darn close once you match them
Thank you) that’s true) stay tuned for more interesting content 😜
Very useful video. Thank you for your time and effort. You helped me make more informed choices.
Welcome mate) stay tuned!
What an amazing test. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
I think what these camera manufacturers need to address is what we still need to include 'processing' wise in camera. Clearly, we want to be able to shoot RAW but still get the lens distortion correction and the noise reduction. With Blackmagic BRAW at least, we have a choice of quality settings that can reduce files sizes. I have the BMD Video Assist 12G because my PC just struggles so bad with Long GOP 10-Bit files. And transcoding takes forever. BRAW scrubs like butter but then having to apply lens correction and noise reduction makes it redundant IMHO as they are two of the most computationally intensive processes you can do in Davinci Resolve. So I will be using the "DNx 10-Bit 422" options on the recorder. I'll get the smooth editing, the dynamic range will be the same, and I'll still get the lens correction and noise reduction in-camera. Another nice 'option' would be if the camera manufacturers would maybe give us DNx/ProRes "14bit 422" or even "12bit 422" as well as RAW/BRAW. Just if anyone from BMD or Panasonic is listening.
Actually the noise reduction in camera is a bad thing unless you are not going to do any post processing which would defeat the purpose of using raw. But the post noise reduction like neat video is much better than the in camera one, especially in high iso.
my main interest in the ninja V is being able to control the amount of noise in the image rather than being forced to use sony's noise reduction, as phillip bloom showed in his review you can use post software like neat video to clean up the noise spectacularly but it doesnt work well with the internal noise reduction. Anyways thanks for this video, started watching your channel and i love your videos.
Thanks for watching and commenting! You are totally right) But this denoise process is very tough for your computer... Really appreciate your support my friend!
RAW recording is absolutely necessary if you're looking for the best possible IQ, as you are able to control the noise yourself on your computer, and get much better results than the A7siii's internal denoiser.
However, if IQ is not necessary, then obviously internal recording is fine.
Totally agree))
Hello. Gh5s owner. How do you do e noise Réduction with fcpx? (Built in plugin? Neat video? ). Also what about the lens distortion? (Alex 4d? Any better solution)
This exactly what i needed thanks so much!
I'm very glad you found it))
Stay tuned for more good content) Appreciate it)
when i watched this video on a really bad/uncalibrated monitor, it shows a difference where bending on the internal is slightly more noticeable.
This was super helpful!
I am using 12 bit raw for commercials.
10 Bit is perfekt for stuff like weddings, image movies or porn.
Thanks for the video 👍
Welcome, stay tuned)
This was such a nice review!
Thank you very much))
I hope someone can help me. I have done several side by side tests showing Prores Raw being recorded 3 stops darker than Prores HQ (using the exact same camera settings). Any idea why this is happening?
Thank you for this video! I don't even have and A7SIII, and probably will not (I have an A7III and A6400 I'm happy with these cameras), but as a geek I love this kind of videos! Very useful!
Thanx a lot! I appreciate it! Stay tuned for more geeky-useful content, my friend!
Can I ask, what prores option are available in the ninja? ProRes LT, 422, HQ?
You are right! Exactly those options
Hey great video. I’m new to editing and looking for a new camera. Photographer mainly coming from Nikon. The canon R6 mk II suits me but the Sony is nice also. My question, isn’t the ninja a better choice for anyone shooting because ProRes plays back so well and looks so good? As well as the latter monitor?
Do Sony files play no problem in mbp M1 Max? I’m trying to figure out whether I go Canon or Sony am I just saving myself time using a ninja?
Hey) thanks! Sony files are working perfectly fine even on M1 Pro base model, I think M1 Max will have 0 issues with any of those
Some things have changed since this posted but still some great info. I'm working off the Alpha 1 and keen to compare.
Hey) I have an update video on my channel) check it out) it came out in the end of may
@@NOlimitsON AH! Def will
@@WanderbirdLife thank you) stay tuned!
No catalyst stabilization on external...
Very, very good video. A7s3 is a real weapon!
Thanx! I appreciate it!
Make sure you dont hurt nobody with that weapon
I've been testing and log has its place but I prefer cineD.
Hey, thanks for a great video! Has Sony made any changes to their menu to accomodate ProResRAW better in their firmware since you posted this?
Thank you)) To be honest I didn't notice anything specific...
Cool info - thanks - please make a video about the Ninja V $99 h265 option available from today - vs in-camera options
Hey! Thanks! I'm thinking about it)) Thanx!
Hi, thx for the great video! So ProRes Raw is exposed the same as Slog? In other words around +1.7EV for most scenarios. Correct?
So strange that that ProRes Raw does such a terrible job when underexposed by a stop. It should in theory be the exact opposite, if ProRes Raw is indeed 12 bit Log in scale.
So when you exposed the A7SIII it gave a 0EV reading on the A7SIII screen, correct?
Thx again !
Hey, thank you! Yes, exposing is the same - protecting your highlight and exposing at +1,7 - +2 EV. ProRes Raw should be performing better after applying Neat Video Denoise - so I’ll make a separate video about it + there are new ProRes Raw ISO control and WB should be already added
@@NOlimitsON excellent! Thx!
There is still some conflicting information out there on whether the cleaner image at 4 stops over base ISO is the result of dual native ISO or just in camera noise reduction. Can you confirm that the image cleans up in ProRes Raw as well when switching ISO from 10k to 12.8k? Do you think the camera actually has dual native ISO or not?
Yes, I do confirm that in RAW the image gets clearer when switching to 12800 ISO from 10 000, I do think it's a dual native ISO camera, but 12800 has slightly less dynamic range though, that is why it can not be officialy called the dual native ISO.
What of you're using Resolve to grade (and NLE)?
Or Premiere?
Final cut) and the ProRes RAW is only working on final cut as well
how does the in camera noise reduction compare to noise reduction in post? Do you retain more sharpness? Is prores raw worth it for low light footage?
Hey) Yes, you do get more detail and sharpness using RAW plus noise reduction in post. Philip Bloom shot in RAW in lowlight a lot and results were very impressive! I'd say it is worth shooting in RAW even in lowlight
@@NOlimitsON Yeah I watch Philip blooms video, thanks! My a7siii is on it's way haha, still considering the ninja v.
@@franklinmichael671 great! I have a lot of videos about a7s3 and ninja V - you can check them out ☺️ I even have a playlist about Sony a7s3
@@NOlimitsON I'll definitely check it out! Thanks!
Unbelievable video. Thank you.
I'm running into an issue on the Ninja & A7siii. When i select ProRes raw or ProRes HQ - The ninja shows me the feed from the camera. When I select standard ProRes (HQ, LT, 422), my Ninja says "No input". Any ideas?
I solved this. I turned off "Raw Output".
Thanx! I think it might be an HDMI Cable issue... did you try another one? Or if it's not in the cable can you send me to insta DM the photos of your Ninja V settings where you choose camera and profile and of your Sony a7s III the HDMI output settings - we'll try to solve this problem))
@@NOlimitsON Hey - Turns out that I needed to turn off "Raw Output" in HDMI settings. Thanks for your help.
Another quick question (if you have the time)... Can (and how) you record prores 420 on the ninja?
@@ThePeopleWeMeet As far as I know you always record 4:2:2, when shooting ProRes
Hey nice vid, I wanna get that Hdmi cable thats right angle that u have does it work with 4k 60p on the ninja v?? I want one so its easy to handheld the a7siii without alot on it so its not weird
Hey, thanx)) at least my cable does work, but it’s pretty cheap though, so I guess there’s no 100% guarantee
Thanks for the comparison, it took cheaper cameras 30 years to catch up with true pro specs, (Thank you panasonic for starting it with the Gh5). But I wish you would pause every now and then to take a breath of air between sentences :-)
Sure! Thank you for the comment!
Same here. Slow down please for us Sony noobs.
Would pro res Hq also be a good solution for those that don’t want to shoot in pro res raw?
I don't see a big difference between ProRes HQ and 422 and LT, but it's really different from RAW... so I don't use RAW in my workflow, I use ProRes LT and it's more than enough
@@NOlimitsON awesome, thanks for reply
First off, great comparison. Thanks for putting in the time! Secondly, you mention the noise performance not being as good in RAW, but I would just like to point out that if you actually need to shoot RAW for a project it's probably because you're a professional who's shooting pretty expensive stuff, in which case you'll already have a noise reduction post workflow that negates the need for it in camera, and quite likely does a better job... just a thought.
Thank you! I totally agree, I’ll make a separate video comparison about RAW with Neat Video vs internal codec
@@NOlimitsON I need this video!!!
@@maxcarroll5670 still didn’t make one...(
Atomos Ninja is a awesome monitor 🔥
Agree))
Can you use the Atomos Ninja V ProRes RAW on an A7R4 and turn it into 12-bit 4:2:2 Recording?
I’m not sure… you need to check out the specs of A7R4
what is the option to record in 12bits in the atom? I don't know how to configure it
I guess you’d better just google it)
Thanks for the video, and thanks for debunking the myth that RAW has some magical ability to recover highlights that would otherwise be blown using the 10-bit codecs. And thank you for the "fun part" at 2:35 where we get to see all the wonderful colors of 8-bit LOG. It's very... um... special.
Thank you! Glad you loved it! Appreciate it!
Here is some copy from a company selling 32bit float audio recording: "Users can treat audio like photographers use the RAW camera photo format. You don’t need to worry about the gain of the recorded audio. All details can simply be adjusted in post-production, significantly reducing pre-shoot preparation time. Recorded too low? Simply raise the volume without raising the noise floor."
in camera denoise works with atoms ninja v?
It does, but when you shoot in regular ProRes, not ProRes RAW
Отличный тест! Спасибо!
Разница между внутренней и внешней записью скорее всего связана с тем что внутренняя находится в legal range, а внешняя записывается с full swing. Так было уже сто лет на рекордерах Атомос.
По шуму камера разочаровала. Напомнило шумы на старушке FS700R, видимо, это какое-то проклятие у сони. Спрашивается, где здесь пресловутые 16 бит, если тени так сильно шумят. Даже учитывая что это вещи напрямую не связанные, пользы видимо от этих 16 бит нету, т.к. новые 12 битные камеры типа S1H или S5 в видео DP Journey шумят намного меньше.
Как по мне, тестирование на ISO25600 пожалуй, бесполезное, лучше было на базовых побольше сделать т.к. на таких значениях нормальные люди не снимают)
В общем, видимо, останусь на Пакете 4К. Новые камеры всё выходят и выходят, но компромиссы остаются)
Does this test apply for the sony fx3 as well since its similar to the a7siii?
I guess for 99% it can be applied to FX3
@@NOlimitsON thabks no limit
Also, i bought some expensive sd cards for my fx3
If i use the ninja v, i wont need these right,
Just an ssd?
What projects would you use memory cards vs ninja v then?
@@TimandLauren I would always use both for backup (on SD cards) and ease of workflow (with pro res)
What hdmi records prores raw at 60fps? I have the coiled Kondor Blue one and it’s not working
It's hard to find the right cable... you either need to buy the one from Atomos or go through a dozen of third party ones...((
@@NOlimitsON i bought a cheap "delock" hdmi cable and it works like a charm D:
@@Haverr1 you’re lucky))
Is it possible to shoot in s-cinetone on the a7siii and also record pro-res on the ninja v?
Hey! Sure! S-Cinetone is just a picture profile overall, but only in regular ProRes, not ProRes RAW. In ProRes RAW the internal recording will always be in S-Log3
@@NOlimitsON Doesn't work for me. In order to shoot in Pro-Res, I have to set my camera output to raw, which defaults back to S-log with desaturated colors. If I'm doing something wrong, I'd really like to know what it is. When I turn off or unplug the Ninja from my a7siii, the camera goes back to s-cinetone.
@@ratt57 If you mean the regular ProRes (Not RAW), you don't have to put your camera in RAW output. Just set you HDMI out to auto or 2160p and turn off RAW output. And you can set any PP and record ProRes (not ProRes RAW) on the Ninja V
Can anyone tell me the workflow of prores raw in davinci
It’s not available for davinci resolve at all
Wish we could reduce the NR with the internal codec, not a fan of loss in detail. I prefer proresraw when I can use it but hate the extra bulk at times.
It's always a compromise... even with RED or Alexa cameras...
hello
I want to know how to format ssd card in Ninja Five.
It's pretty simple - go to the upper right corner, hit the remaining recording time, than hit the media tab and there you'll see the format button) Or you can watch my in-depth Ninja V review to know all the features and functions))
*ISO and Colour Temperature is now unlocked and available, but only in Final Cut Pro X, and only if you have downloaded and installed the latest two patches on Catalina 10.15.6 ot 10.15.7 (I don't know about Big Sur ?). The problem with your tests is it's posted on TH-cam, and the tube only gives you an 8 Bit 4:2:0 colour space and 256 level of grey scale to work with. Also, TH-cam is crushing your blacks and highlights, so no one can actually see much of the differences to which your testing is referring to.*
Mark, thank you for the info, but I've uploaded the original file to the cloud service and said about it in the video and in the description)) I knew about TH-cam Compression and that is why I uploaded the file))
What is more ridiculous that LOG 8bit is using reduced saturation in camera to allow room for changing it in post. The format has a fixed PSNR, so the lower chroma is recorded, the lower the quality will be, the more blocky and lower in precision it will be, and the worse it will look when you raise it in post. If you want good saturation with high chroma precision, you have to get it in camera.
The same applies to reduced sharpness.
The only advantage of LOG is the raised shadows. Those are recorded with better quality because they are recorded higher. You will be extending the midrange if you want to reduce them in post though, and the midrange is usually more important.
If you get the look in camera, congratulations. You have optimized the compression and overall image quality, by processing the image in the highest precision representation it will ever have, and you will do less in the lower precision representations that will follow
Absolutely! Great comment, my friend! Agree!
Do a tutorial on denoising raw in neat video please :)
I’ll try to make it next month)
@@NOlimitsON that would be awesome actually! Quick question if you see this - but I was shooting in raw yesterday with some blue and purple hair lights. It looked fine on my ninja but when I imported the files to Premiere Pro they were highly oversaturated and didn't look like raw or log footage at all. Am I doing something wrong? Lol!
@@AshleyGonzalez-hh6up I think it's because of the wrong interpretation of RAW in your editing software. Check out my new Video on ProRes RAW - there I show the workflow
Now that ISO metadata is supported for prores raw from atomos ninja, could prores raw technically recover overly exposed shots by lowering the ISO in final cut pro x?
if you have room for it, for instance you shot at ISO 2000 and overexposed strongly - than yes, you'll be able to recover the highlights, at least in theory, I need to check it on my FCP, but if you shot during midday with iso 100 f1,4 and 1/50 shutter with no ND filter on - the data will be unrecoverable for sure
Highlight recovery is a myth. If it reaches full scale, it's full scale, it's lost. Cameras allow 3-5 stops of exposure over the subject, but that's normal dynamic range that is required to cover a normal scene, not room for error. Shooting at extremely flat lighting and claiming there is such a thing as highlight recovery for 3-4 stops is ridiculous.
There is a type of recovery that works. The one using the area the cameras use to clip all three channels into white without the partially clipped false color look. But that is minimal and looks bad. It's practically useless.
There is no such thing as shadow recovery either. If you have a high dynamic range and a format with high PSNR (or RAW), you can boost shadows and raise noise at the same time. That is not recovery, it's merely a change in exposure after the actual exposure, using an exposure that did not fit the scene, with all the disadvantages.
Long story short, exposure is critical if you want to get the best image quality. Highlight recovery is impossible. Boosting shadows has noise cost.
@@aristotle_4532 Exactly! Great comment, man! Agree! Exposure is king!
Why were you using XAVC-S & not
XAVC-I?
Much better codec. Also there was no mention of using denoising with Neat Video which makes RAW so much better than XAVC internal as it preserves almost all the detail & remains sharp. In essence, RAW is better for underexposed shots & you said the opposite.
I was using XAVC-S because it’s a much more convenient codec in terms of storage and I compared all the codecs in my iPhone 12 Pro Max vs a7s3 video and saw no difference in quality what do ever... I’ll make a separate video about lowlight performance in RAW and I’ll use neat video and compare RAW and internal formats. So after all the tests I’ll for sure find out the best option) thank you for the comment, it motivates me a lot to continue ☺️
Your video was quite educational. I liked how you saturated the colors so we could see the gradiant changes. That has been one of the best illustrations I have seen for the newbie. --> me
Thank you! I appreciate it! Stay tuned ☺️
Did you use a 18gbps hdmi cable?👀
I don't think it was a proper 18gbps cable...
@@NOlimitsON that might be the problem to the pro res raw footage.. it needs that 18gbps in order to pull the full 12bit .. maybe idk lol.
@@lucrativestance yeah) You're right) Thanx
Not until they get the rest of the options available for prores raw. It’s rather pointless IMO right now.
i can't monitor log/hdr when recording prores raw
any reason?
Yes, because ProRes RAW uses S-log3 as a default setting and the picture shown on the monitor is correct)
@@NOlimitsON when you use sony fs5 with aomos shogun in prores raw you can monitor log/ hdr;
@@petrub27 hm... I think it just shows up like it's disabled, but it should show the HDR picture properly
@@NOlimitsON it doesn't. also the waveform is not accurate. i end up monitoring native , relaying on the false colors. too bad i can't take advantage of the beatifull hdr screen.
I can't open the raw footage on my premiere pro, Why this happened?
I guess you have a rather old version of premiere... They've added the ProRes Raw support not long ago. That's the inly reason I see
@@NOlimitsON Am using the 2020 version but i can't open the file which you have uploaded
@@akhilsanthosh4238 well, in FCP X it's working flawlessly... on my computer on my friends computers also...
@@akhilsanthosh4238 Install prores raw for windows ! download frome apple.com
Why does your camera shows in 25fps? Mine is all in 24, 30, 60 and 120fps. Is there a big difference? I have been shooting in 24, 30 or 60 my whole life 😂
Because I live in PAL area in Russia and here we use 25, 50, 100p. And you live in NTSC area - 24,30,60,120p. But you can easily switch the area in camera and shoot in different frame rate) just google for PAL and NTSC for more detailed info 😎
Can you use catalyst browse stabalisation on Prores 422?
Unfortunately no... only with in-camera files as far as I know
@@NOlimitsON Damn was planning on using it on my FX6 in the near future
Nope
same shit different label.
you will not increase the dynamic range from an camera with Pro RES footage compared to internal LOG footage if thats what you think.
too low sound
то чувство когда знаешь что это голос олега))))))))))
Оу е))
Raw does not denoise. You need denoise in postproduction when using raw.
That is right)
Thanks,for the Video. But The Sound is not so good.
Thanx) can you tell me what’s wrong with the sound and how I can improve it?
@@NOlimitsON It is very low/dull and it sounds like you are talking under a "blanket". Do not get me wrong. I want to try out ProRes and the comparison was very interesting. But the sound was not very clear.
@@svenh.6792 okay! Thank you! I’ll do my best to improve it)
Что ты творишь братан какие ограничения, посмотри на рав на том же сенсоре в фото
RAW в фото и RAW в видео - две разных вещи. Учите мат.часть
well, unless Ninja V will be capable of recording 120fps raw one day ...
It would not...(( 60fps is the hardware limitation as far as I know
@@NOlimitsON :-(
People who needs raw will not shoot on a $3500 mirrorless camera :)
I wouldn’t be so sure about that... There’s a sea of aspiring filmmakers out there who could use the benefits of RAW for their beginning projects and. $3500 camera that will help produce incredible images and won’t break the bank. Then when their work gets noticed (if it’s good enough) they can make the jump to higher end cinema cameras.