I stopped here for I had 30 minutes to "waste". Left with much gratitude for a smooth teaching style and a solid presentation. Thanks for the demo on the Temco crimper. I used your link and one is now on the way to my shop.
@@ProjectsWithDave Thanks for the video. I'm trying to build a totally off-grid system to power my home. I'm trying to use solar during the day to support my Anker Solix portable generators, so that at night the house runs totally on my generators. I need something to keep my generators powered up. Can the Server Rack batteries support and work with the Anker F3800?
Thank you for the video! South Africa is currently in a national state of disaster because of rolling blackouts. Everyone is trying to get their hands on backup power systems. Your channel really provides us with a lot of much needed info on how these systems should be expected to work. Even though the electricity standards are different here in RSA it still helps.
Victron "European" model supports being connected to 400V three phase TN and 230V three phase IT/TT grids. Connecting to a 230V from a 400V TN grid would pretty much the same as in the video, just higher voltage between N and L1.
Great video. I just have one caveat which I learned the hard way. For such emergency backup systems you should assume the worst case scenario and place the battery and all components at least two feet above the worst potential flood level. You should also include some type of overhead protection from such things like roof leaks. Finally, make it as easy to operate as possible, without any special procedures because when it hits the fan, you will be reacting at a basic primal level with few reasoning abilities.
@@charlieodom9107 your whole house could go up in flames if the cells get wet. So you don't necessarily need a flood to warrant protecting your cells from water; your house is piped with it, it falls from the sky, animals urinate it, etc.
@@charlieodom9107 yup. I you put it where the water floods. Anything else it protects well enough. I find these wood based installation highly unprofessional.
Downloadable Parts Lists with Cost and Circuit Diagram - Link: drive.google.com/file/d/1dMR7HIPvhcqb2EtShifwQy49ZrQrgJT6/view?usp=sharing Current Connected Website Affiliate Link: www.currentconnected.com/?ref=pwd Find More information for this project and others on my website: projectswithdave.com Watch the split phase upgrade install of this system here: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html Check out my DIY 12V off grid system here: th-cam.com/video/OwfGLu8IY_M/w-d-xo.html Check out my latest solar install on my shed here: th-cam.com/video/Y8OGxdJ9cU8/w-d-xo.html Check out my original ground array install here: th-cam.com/video/_xA6qOwnYbM/w-d-xo.html Great breakdown on bifacial solar panels here: th-cam.com/video/1SXNjsSsmq0/w-d-xo.html
When you pointed out the value of winding the wiring back and forth between studs in consideration of future modifications or improvements, I just HAD to hit the subscribe button! This alone is a very helpful suggestion.
Keep making these!!! Funny, my favorite and smartest part is when you build that little "pop out" box that bridges the wiring and allows you to mount the outlet box at the proper alignment for the conduit. SMART DUDEEEEEE
Thanks Dave, Don't forget the sub panels are never bonded and should be checked to see if there is continuity between the neutral and the ground as there should be none.
Hey, Current Dave, good job on having Past Dave set things up right for Future Dave, now you. The "extra wire" is called a "service loop" because it's typically set up as a loop to allow there to only be one splice to move it, not two. You may see these on utility poles as a run of fiber-optic or copper cable going back and forth between two poles to add length. If there's a fault, the extra material from the service loop is used -- one splice -- and the segment with the fault removed. If there wasn't a service loop it would require one splice to connect to the known-good part and one to extend to the service. With electrical it's not that big of a deal but with 640 fiber-optic strands it's a ***. It's convenient you can put all your stuff next to the load panel. Mine's outside the house, which presents its own challenges. Also in the US regionalism means some of us call it a "load panel" (nobody I know does this), others a "breaker box", and if you read the NEC, "panel board." Most techs I work with call it "breaker box." You did say "6-3" but didn't elaborate. Perhaps some of your newer viewers might be better educated if you explained that it means 6-gauge 3-wire cable, good for one phase up to 55A, voltage whatever residential you like. If you want split-phase (or "two leg") you'll want 6-4 to get the two phases (red+black for power, white for neutral, green for ground.) One other comment - 1/0AWG isn't a whole lot of headroom for "future growth". Its ampacity is a bit above 60A or just a bit about 6AWG. If you're sticking with single phase (110-120VAC) and ran 6-3 to the breaker box... you can save the $2/ft for 1/0 and just do 6AWG. Most houses in north America are wired at up to 200A (two phase) so 6AWG will carry half that load just fine. Also, while you're supposed to put the inverter 10cm away from other devices, it really depends on airflow... so in a basement with no airflow 10c may not be enough. On a wall in a hallway or in an HVAC-cooled room it's more than enough. Temp it with a laser tstat when off, temp it when on, and temp it at max perf and if you see it get hot, move it or put a fan on it. E
The cost efficiency and the wise application of user-administered components here is outstanding, you really know your stuff. Sadly I’m not quite so practical working with electrical wiring like this at all (I’m just a regular guy researching home battery backup). This sort of approach is a great way to break away from proprietary vendor specific products (which are also far more expensive). Is this sort of setup accomplishable with the help of an electrician, with me there to simply fund everything? I wonder about support as well. I suppose it would behoove the owner to at least get past the initial learning curve to make the most out of a system like this (even if they had professional help to prevent them from making dumb mistakes).
You should be able to find an electrician to help you assemble your system. Current Connected (link in description) is a great source to get your materials from because you can tell them what you want to do and they will pre-program the units for you.
Nice job. Two things -1. the cable lengths from the battery to the Inverter should be as short as possible and the cable lengths the same length - preferably not coiled. 2. The fuse should be less than 12 inches from the positive side of the battery - best practice. There are lots of discussions about this on the web.
Thanks. 1) The cables should be as short as possible, however, I plan to make changes later so I didn't do that in this case. Series cables don't need to be the same length and coils in DC lines are not a concern. 2. For the fuse, in this case, there is not a significant difference with the 1/0 awg cable I used and the short distance between the battery and the inverter. Thanks for the feedback!
Hey Dave, great video. I'm in the process of doing something similar at home. I chose an MPP LV-MK series inverter because of it's "double conversion" capability, but it's possible the Victron and others can do the same. This is less efficient, but results in 0ms / instantaneous transfer time when the grid power goes out. One thing I researched a fair amount was battery chemistry and optimal consumption behavior. From what I gathered, the lifespan of these SOK and EG4 lithium is way better than old-school lead acid / gel / AGM batteries. BUT... LiFePo4 don't like to sit idle at a fully-charged state. It reduces their life compared to daily charge/discharge cycles common to solar usage. That's why I chose gel batteries (Renogy 100AH deep cycle hybrid gel, valve-regulated/sealed lead acid chonkers). I would have tried silicate-salt, but they're really heavy and would have been at least $270 to ship. That and there isn't a whole lot of info about them.
Every battery has an optimal application and the only way to make the best decision for your application is to take the path you're on and do do a lot of research. Some more information to consider; with a good inverter, you can control the capacity level of your cells to maximize their lifespan. For instance you can make the max charge point at 60% or 80% to minimize the dendrite growth. Either way the LiFePo4 chemistry is the best for longevity if you go Lithium.
Another great presentation. Thanks. You are definitely old-school: aligning your screw-heads. Great to see teaching of the little things, in the trades.
Funny you should say that. I live in Ireland but worked for an American company here in the 80's and 90's "Wabco Westinghouse" which was owned by Union Switch and Signal and we always alligned the slots on the screw terminals Vertitally on our wiring of signal and track transformers and such. Reason I was told was not to trap moistre in the slots.
I find all this extremely fascinating. Now that we've moved to a home with a little acreage, I'm learning as fast as I can to install my own solar battery system, with hopefully the intention of going mostly (if not completely) off-grid. We have a very large electricity consumption on average, so that's the pretzel head I get when doing the math. The other biggie is the massive "pucker factor" when actually hooking all this up to my main panel. I'm fairly handy doing lots of things. But the thought of connecting solar to power my entire home is quite the hurdle.
It is a lot to learn. But if you do a couple of small projects to start learning you will get the hang of it and it will be less intimidating. You can always install the system then get an electrician to make the final connections.
I saw this a while ago, but now getting more serious about adding backup power. I'm looking at the EG4 18K inverter & 2 interior PowerPro battery packs. Great video !
I just bought an EG4-12K-PV to take on half my array. I'll have some content on it soon. EG4-12K-PV: signaturesolar.com/eg4-12kpv-hybrid-inverter-48v-12000w-input-8000w-output-120-240v-split-phase-rsd-all-in-one-hybrid-solar-inverter/?ref=SALE
Concerned about the scene where you open the battery box and poke around inside. I saw a ring on your finger. With the kind of energy stored in those cells, any inadvertent cross contact done by your ring would likely result in the ring welding to the source and your finger being burned off. This would leave you with a mess and people nicknaming you "Stumpy". Always remove any and all bling before ever opening a energy source no matter what you think of it's on or not, hot or cold or not. It's always hot.
I suggest when you start buying your system you start out buying a hybrid wind / solar charge controller, and a charger/ inverter, so when you upgrade you don’t need to buy new components, now you can max out your solar panels and batteries for going off grid but still have the option to charge your batteries off the grid , or just help keep them topped off for longer life , keep in mind , when it is windy , wind generators work better then solar , but on no wind Days Solar works better , and it not only the wind you need to take into consideration, it’s the clouds also
It's amazing how many people I have met in my life that don't understand how dangerous rings are at work. If you're working around the house or at work, the last thing you should have on your fingers is a ring. If you do, you're either stupid or a cuck. I saw a man at Boeing field and airport in Seattle. Working on an airplane and a fuel truck. Backed up underneath the wing and knock the ladder from underneath him. He grabbed on to the engine pod where he was and I saw him fall but what I didn't realize until I got up close to him was it. When he fell, his ring had become caught on the edge of the engine pod and it took his finger and the tendon connected to his finger all the way up to his elbow out he was partially the gloved. That's what they call it when you the skin around. Your fingers comes off on your hand. All because he had a stupid wedding ring on
Dave, Your batteries would get more even distribution if you used a busbar and had equal length cables running to each battery from the busbar. It probably doesn't seem like there's much of a difference as it's currently configured, but I suspect it will add up over time. Also, you might want to build some kind of a protective cage around those batteries if you're going to be parking cars around them. You never know what can happen... BTW, no link to the fuse(s)? ;)
I linked to a Megafuse instead of the CNN fuse since that's what they stock on Current Connected's website. Makes it easier to order everything from one site. Or you can get the CNN fuse here: amzn.to/3SYhpIJ And a fuse holder here: amzn.to/3yKdves
@@deang5622 No, I said "more even distribution". And yes, current will take the path of least resistance, so if the resistance isn't even, the distribution to the batteries or to load won't be either.
in the case here, I think he could even current draw by keeping most of his wiring intact, but moving the positive inverter supply to the other battery. With 3+ batteries, though, I think you'd need a bus bar.
Voltage droop doesn't happen until the wire is tasked to carry more current than it is supposed to carry. Watch your meters while the load goes up. I saw 104volts when you made one pass that connected with the log well. Michael in Colorado.
Great directional video! You are definitely not a novice installer. Neutral or negative wire is the “captain of the ship” first one on and last one off.
Thank you for your video or videos. They are very educational! As a DIY’r I can not learn enough! I am reaping my rewards for my efforts from guys like you! God bless you and God bless America !
Thanks! I'm glad it's been helpful for you. My goal is to learn as much as I can and share what I learn with the community, It's nice to know it's valued.
Great video Dave! I'm starting from scratch and this is pretty close to what I'm looking for. Primarily looking for standby backup power for critical circuits. I have considered solar but we simply have too many large trees to make it cost effective. Is it possible to have the UPS setup but be able to supplement battery charging with a gas generator when there are longer outages? I'm not clear that using a transfer switch on the multiplus a/c input would give the desired result? Or would it? Would the excess generator power charge the batteries? Are there other Victron models (or other brands) with better a/c input connections, not the push-in? Maybe the Victron Quattro Inverter is what I'd want? Thanks Tony
Thanks! It can take generator input to charge the batteries, no problem. There are several other options on the market. I will demonstrate a few in an upcoming video.
Am so glad I've found your channel, covering standby power, I've been looking @doing this in different way to provide 24hr off peak lectricity charge batteries @night 1am-8am then use batteries to run bungalow day/evening! So l can have 24hr off peak should save bag of money with energy prices rising so much!🤗😎
I hope that dewalt has a 220 option. It would get a lot less bogged down and never go over 15 amp because it's not starving. Good vid on the entire setup.
3kw solar/10kw batteries is the perfectly proportioned starting point from my experience, its even capable of running a small split system Ac all day and throughout the night depending on your location. There are far cheaper solutions than the Victron for a budget system unless you want to run a mitre saw which a cheaper inverter might not be able to handle the large start up current of.
Ive built a couple batteries for my off grid home. I used the eve280k cells this last time and nissan leaf modules the first time. Both my batteries have much more capacity than those server rack batteries qnd i have much nicer more capable bms. The nice thing about your server rack batteries are the ease of install.
@@ProjectsWithDave I like the battery and solar build stuff as a hobby and since finding out about having stage 4 cancer it's helped keep my mind off bad stuff. I'd have probably bought the server rack batteries but they are kinda an expensive way to get 30 kw or so of power storage compared to building your own. I like the look and convenience of the server rack stuff tho.
Another way to take care of the inrush of the inverter when it is first setup is to use a variable DC power supply to bring the Voltage up on the input with the batteries turned off. Serves the same as the precharge resistor in that it allows a control over the current the capacitors draw. That is how I do it on my 6K inverters.
@Projects With Everyday Dave cool, that makes a lot of sense, do you have a way for your existing solar array to charge these batteries in case of a longer outage?
Great review. You mention the capability to take 20 Amps of a generator and boost it another 25 amps... But what about the opposite? Can it go directly from solar (without battery) @30 amps and then boost it to 40 amps as needed from the grid or a generator if needed to drive a heavier load? Glad to see that the fuse holder has a cover! However, I am not a big fan of the "push in " connection method that the MultiPlus-II uses for the wiring for the AC connection. I don't mind the convenience, but I would prefer something that I can tighten down to make sure that there is no chance of something pulling out.
This unit is an inverter/battery charge controller. It does not have solar capability. With Victron that is a separate unit. The connectors aren't my favorite either, but to be fair if I set them properly I can't pull them out. That being said I also preferer the control of a lug connector.
Thanks for the video Dave. Wondering why not connect the AC power cable (inverter going to subpanel) on the normal lugs for ac entry as opposed to plugging /back feeding using 50a breaker?
That way I could have a single pole breaker for the back-feeding circuit. It also allows me to bridge both hot legs of the load center to make every breaker 120 If I want to.
The max output is 50A plus 25A boost from the battery for a total of 75A when connected to shore power. You can limit the amount of power pulled from shore in the settings to as little as 1A. Here is the manual for details: www.manualslib.com/manual/2414478/Victron-Energy-Multiplus-Ii-48-3000-35.html?page=16#manual
Dave good job I am thinking that is a project I need to do I have an oxygen concentrator that needs to run 24 hours. Fortunately we have not experienced any prolonged outages here but the system you have setup would make me rest easier at night.
Very nice presentation....I don't usually reply. But this time, you deserve it. A couple of suggestions. You might talk a little about battery chemistry and the advantages of LiFe PO4 batteries. And you might also talk about how a solar array could be added to slow battery depletion.
Instead of bending your length of hook-up wire 11:00 I'd just put a 'loop' in the wire, it's easier to do, and handy when using an Amp Probe for current readings. .
I did this for my RV .. 3kw hybrid all in one POWmr, 468.00 + 2x 200ah lifep04 (469.00 ea) and about 90.00 worth of breakers and 8awg cable and connectors . 20amp power outlet .. and 1kw of solar panels 24v system .. under 2200 for the entire system
This is close to what I am planning. One difference is to drive 240V split. So with current Victron components I'd need 2 MP II/Quattro, or an MP II/Quattro + Victron autotransformer... OR wait until Victron comes out with a single unit that supports 240 split.
agreed... dropped a dozen of used solar panels on the roof... $100 mppt contol... runs the house on a 3000 all in one inverter... charges at night if needed. but no backfeed.
Great video thank you Dave I have learned so much from you. I do have a question can I hook the battery system up to my system since I feed it back to the power grid. Sorry if I am not using the correct thermology still learning.
Thanks for the great content. It's nice to see that it handled the planer load, (what's the ambient temp in the inverter room) would be great to see more load testing and see how it compares to the datasheet ratings. I do have a request, could you measure the no load idle current of the inverter? According to the Victron community forums, it seems to be common to get a unit that draws 60%-80% more than the datasheet rating. Victron's response has been, performance can vary unit to unit, and there is no fix besides replacement.
The ambient temperature at the time of testing was about 65deg F. I get about 9W at idle. It has the lowest idle consumption of anything I've tested so far.
Only a couple min in so forgive me if you answer this later - is this system certified (UL, etc.) and can be inspected by the utility? Also, will a system of this size (110ah batt and 3k inverter) be sufficient to run a couple fridges and sporadic microwave/washer in the event of a power outage?
This system can run the devices you listed no problem. Because this system is off-grid, it may not require inspection in your area, but you should check with your local inspector. Many Victron components are not UL listed, so you have to check individually. Thanks!
Great video and cool backup system. I was tempted briefly but... The cost of the 2 batteries plus the Multiplus II would be about $9000 (Can) with tax! Yes it would save me from having to run outside and start the generator and yes that could happen while I was away - but that would have to occur quite often to cost me $9000 worth of groceries. More disappointing is that it wouldn't power my 240v well pump. That would require the system in your split-phase video which would cost double, or 18-20k! Also, if I added solar panels, the system would not sell back excess energy to the grid to provide net metering nor would it (if I understand the operation of the Multiplus-II) utilize solar power when the grid is active to reduce my hydro bill by powering the circuits from solar energy.
You might consider a more value oriented hybrid inverter that can sell to the grid like the EG4 18K: signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kpv-hybrid-inverter-all-in-one-solar-inverter-eg4-18kpv-12lv/?ref=pwd
Great video thanks! Looking at doing this myself, just wondering if there is a way to ensure battery charging is done at a cheap/off peak rate or with excess solar only? I’m on a grid tied solar system. Thanks.
This man spoke English before he spoke about the tools he'll be using. From then on it just felt like I was watching aliens build a spaceship. Watched the whole thing. Great video.
Thinking of similar setup with a Victron inverter. Question: If grid is out for a long time and batteries drain to cut off soc/voltage, will the inverter start back up by itself when grid comes back and start powering the panel and Charging batteries again? This will be setup At a remote cabin to keep our fridge/freezer/internet/cameras running there were there are frequent power outages.
@@ProjectsWithDave thank you! Self unattended restart is critical since family is at the cabin one week a month. Great content. Keep up the great work!
Do you know if the victron unit is allowed under the NEC standards? In otherwords heaven forbid a fire breaks out will this install be covered by insurance?
This unit is not UL certified, but it is operating in "off-grid" mode. I'm not sure what the fire insurance implications are. You should discuss that with your insurance agent.
I like this setup a lot. I may just build a system like this that's portable so I can plug into my generator inlet or take it with me. Seems much cheaper to expand than the all in one's. I could probably even use it to power a 120v welder completely silently.
Awesome video. The one question I have is if something goes wrong with the inverter and the repair time is longer than expected . How would you gain back power to those critical circuits without rewiring the setup. Thks
Great video thanks for sharing. Most video's do not cover the breaker boxes to inverter part of the solar deal...In time shortly I hope to start this aspect of my solar deal packup. .
I might use this for my network and server rack instead of a factory ups because i cant get 240 to my rack and the victron specs fit the bill I will probably still have a smaller ups because the switch from battery to inverter is quicker but it should still work.
I want to build a solar generator that I can put on a hand truck to take to small events when I set up medical stands…I’m an emergency np and my company educates but we also travel a lot and provide medical support for small and medium scale events…I need a fast mobile power source and a noisy generator won’t cut it…and many carnivals and fund raising events like charity walks and community and political rallies don’t want a loud generator around…you’ve given me a fantastic idea…thanks…I can put a victron on a board and secure it to a hand truck and bring two or three batteries…I can use five or six 400 watt solar panels then to run the batteries…🤔
Great video! And thank you. How are you managing your ground relays? Turning it on or off? I have something very similar to this but using two multis configured in split phase. My neutral and ground bond is at the main panel. My critical load panel will not have a neutral/ ground bond on its own but will connect net/ground at the main load center. In theory I would think you would want the PE lug on the case of the inverter to be run to the main box and bonded there?
The load center has it's own independent ground connection. For the neutral, if you look at the circuit diagram for the Multiplus II, it shows a neutral/ground bond relay that switches on when the shore power is cut.
you'll be able to extend the fridge power draw if you set it right above freezing and cutting the power to it off and on. a fridge can keep cold for long periods of time.
If you have ONLY refrigeration loads then look for a means of running the power for, say, 15 minutes in every hour. while checking that the fridges remain cold enough it means that the self consumption of the inverter can be off for 75% of the time, giving some added power efficiency and hence run time.
I’m fresh into this, so do your priority breakers only go in one box? Meaning for example the breaker for your fridge, is there one in each box you have, or is it only in the new battery back up box? Thanks for the video
In this setup, there is a separate load center that is essentially run off-grid. It is isolated and powered by the Victron inverter. That load center should have all of the emergency circuits you want to power, Fridge, microwave, sump pump, etc.
Can you expand your installation to a split phase setup? If you do, can you add a manual transfer switch (double throw) to be able to disconnect the subpanel from the inverters to have energy on the loads in the event the inverters fail. Would really like to see what is the proper procedure for the neutrals and grounds with a transfer switch in there. Thank you for the channel.
That isn't an NEC (or probably CEC) legal installation, but it's pretty good. You can't have Romex where people can touch it, that has to have conduit. Other than that, that looks like a nice setup. I ran a generator for 12 days when we had a horrible ice storm recently, and I wish I'd had a battery system to keep from running it continuously.
Thanks for the feedback. I have also found it to be incredibly convenient for short power outages that used to force me to drag out the generator for only a few hours of use. I have since expanded to dual phase to pick up my well you can see that expansion here: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html I then added solar, so now I can run all emergency systems almost year round without a generator at all. You can see the solar addition here: th-cam.com/video/6WO44Pa5EwI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Dave for a great and detailed presentation. I just have one question you covered very quickly 7:00 , in the event of lost power and battery gets low, how would I go about connecting electric generator from subpanel to the UPS panel to charge the battery.
In my case, I have a transfer switch that switches the AC input for the sub panel between Line in and Generator in. If the power has been out for a few days and I want to recharge the batteries, I can start my generator and plug it into the outdoor generator plug that is connected to the transfer switch. Then I can flip the transfer switch and the sub panel and inverter AC in will see power again and start to charge the batteries. If you have a small generator, the inverter has the ability to limit the input load in the settings so as not to overload the generator. Hope that helps. You can see another way to wire it more directly from this split phase example: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
Very cool setup. I really like the new ECOFlow systems with there integrated power distribution system. It does cost more but I can use the ECOFlow batteries to power my RV or any other application for remote power.
My main panel is located in my bedroom and I don't have room to install equipment needed to do this setup. I do have a small 1k watt solar system. Unfortunately I have to use extension cords when I need to run refrigerator or anything else.
sorry question, im learning as much as i can... how does the switch over not back feed and power all the other circuits and only the emergency ones on the panel since the breaker will remain open to the main panel, thanks!
@ProjectsWithDave thanks for the video. Subbed to your channel. One quick question: if i want to run this system as a stanalone mobile unit (ie not connected to the main house distribution board) so straight from a plug point in my home to the ac-in of inverter, do i need breakers inbetween, or can i just connect directly?
Thanks for the sub! If you are plugging into a generator plug port on your house, it will have a breaker where it comes into your load center. You would just need to make sure it is sized appropriately for the size of wire you are using on the output of the inverter. However, If you are making a stand alone portable system, I would add a breaker in a small box on your portable unit, for the extra convenience and safety of being able to quickly and easily turn off the power at the source.
No central AC tests? We've had 4 months of 100 +F degree days down here in TX. Some days we had power outages, I'm looking for a battery system that can last 3 days running a 3.5 ton central AC, fridge, some lights, charge phones, router and use PC/TV to pass time.
Are you wanting the battery to last 3 days running AC without solar input? That would be a very expensive battery! You would also need split phase like this setup: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the great video. What is the transfer switch you arr using? I'm building a similar system and want to add a transfer switch to have the chance to use a gas generator to feed the charger in case of long outages. Thanks!
Thanks! Here are two options similar to mine: TCA1006DR Outdoor Transfer Panel - 100A and 60A Generator: amzn.to/3FWIuI1 TCA1006D Indoor Panel/Link Transfer Panel: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HRWGPS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks for the video Dave, couple questions for you. I am looking to do a similar system at my house incase of a power outage and would like to run 2 fridges along with our fridge and tankless water heater (both are gas but have power for their internal computers). Have you done anything similar to that? Most systems and explanations I see online involve solar which is something I do not have at this point. I was originally looking to add a transfer switch to a gas generator but then was thinking of an all in one system from Ecoflow or Bluetti. However, after further research I am thinking some type of standalone battery or a server system with an inverter. I like the idea of having the ability to add solar possibly in the future and top off my system with a gas generator when needed. Correct me if I am wrong, but if I go with a battery or server rack I will also need an inverter. As I am thinking of the system in my head, does your inverter kick on automatically when the power goes out, or do you have to flip the transfer switch? Also, do you have a diagram of your setup available?
You can find the diagram and parts list on my website here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/ This system will automatically switch from grid to battery in a power outage (UPS mode). Here is my project information on expanding to provide split phase 120/240V: projectswithdave.com/120-240v-victron-home-backup/ The Multiplus II in this video is a charger and inverter in one unit. You can add a transfer switch to switch between grid power and generator power for the input if you want. I am working on a video now that shows how to add solar to this system it will come out soon.
@@ProjectsWithDave, thank you for the responses Dave, they are very helpful! Looking forward to the future video. I also saw the video on the Ecoflows, now I feel like I am teetering back to a system like that. So many options and considerations!
Hello Dave, first let me say a great video and finding it was perfect timing. I have a few questions if that is ok. 1. why are people asking about a automatic switch when I thought the Victron has a built in rapid switch to use batteries when line power fails. or does it relate to using a generator as alternate input power. 2. my house was wired for a generator from the get go but I never installed one due to cost and the need for much larger propane tank. as such my main power feeds a 200amp panel with all the 220 (oven and AC's and a few 120 circuits, then has a 100amp breaker to feed a sub-panel which has all the outlets, refrigerator , freezer, microwave and internet router, modem, and Wifi Access points. most all of the breakers in this panel are 15amp but wired with 12ga multi strand. Ive never measured the draw but certain it is well below 100amps as entire house is 8w and 12 watt LED lights. if I understand the Victron maxes our at 50amps, so if my load with lights, and the appliance on is under 50amp, can I just change the sub panel feed from the main panel to the Victron and then use the extra space in main panel to provide 30amp line power to the Victron? one issue I see is the current 100amp breaker is a two pole so the sub panel has both phases of 120, no doubt to keep the load balanced. 3. our power outages are frequent especially during rain season and can be from a min to a few hours typically this is due to undersize utility main feeds to our area and utility line fuses tripping and then auto resetting rather fast. given that do you think 2 or 3 48V-100amp 5kw LiFePO4 batteries are sufficient? I plan to measure the wattage of the refrigerator and freezer (separate units) and many of the lighting circuits and a few outlets to keep the internet and a TV on as well. thanks for you video again. Richard
Keep in mind, I'm not a professional electrician, you should consult a local expert for professional advice. That being said, here are my thoughts based on your available information: 1) The Victron has an automatic transfer switch allowing it to act like a UPS. It can easily manage your situation of short and long power outages. 2) You can move your 100A sub panel on the other side of your Victron inverter just like I did for my emergency circuits. If code in your area allows you can jumper both legs of the subpanel to make the whole panel 120V running off one leg of your 240V service. With properly sized conductors, you can run a 50A single pole breaker from your main panel to supply the inverter and a 75A single pole breaker from the inverter to the sub panel. The reason you can do 75A for the supply to the subpanel, is the inverter is able to take the 50A line voltage and boost it another 25A with the batteries for intermittent higher loads. Keep in mind the inverter can't supply 50A off-grid, it is only a 3,000W inverter. The number of batteries you would need would depend on how long you wanted to be able to run off-grid. I would start with 2 batteries and see if that meets your needs. Hope that helps. If you contact Current Connected, they will program the inverter and batteries for your situation. Here is a link to there site: www.currentconnected.com/?ref=pwd
thank you. I doing the measurements seems I will need more then 3kw inverter or have to use 2 combined to get closer to 50amps off grid. I also plan to add solar next year at 6kw as the panel prices have come down a lot and our electric prices here are .45cents/kwhr. I will need to compare a hybrid 6-8kw inverter vs. two of the 3kw units for price and I see you already have done a video comparing some. that's a great start for me so again thanks.
Totally different chemistry. The SOK batteries are LiFePO4, they can handle thousands of cycles with very little impact to overall capacity. The drawback is they cost more and have to be kept above freezing for charging. In most cases, totally worth it!
I know you don't have this setup like this anymore, but do you know how much power it would draw like this? Using this as a UPS only, where it acts as a pass through until you lose power. I was wondering if they use power at all or can you put it in search mode for less power consumption?
The idle consumption of a single unit is almost exactly 10W when in standby off-grid. I measured it before changing the configuration. I don't know how much it consumes in UPS mode, but it shouldn't be more than 10W.
I watched this again recently, NEC says to Never bond ground and neutrals in a Sub Panel, only at the last point of disconnect (main panel) Did you Bond your Neutral and ground in your Sub Panel, or did you isolate them?
Mister i have one question to be sure This system does not have any solar panels right? If so that means the battery will charge from government line Thank you ❤
This system charges from the grid, it is set up as emergency backup only. Watch this video on adding solar charging: th-cam.com/video/6WO44Pa5EwI/w-d-xo.html
Hello, the applications you have made are very nice. There is a subject I want to consult you, when the inverter generates ac voltage from the batteries, there is no neutral at the ac output, there is an output accepted as 0v, have you had any problems with this situation or are you aware of it?
I stopped here for I had 30 minutes to "waste". Left with much gratitude for a smooth teaching style and a solid presentation. Thanks for the demo on the Temco crimper. I used your link and one is now on the way to my shop.
Glad it was helpful!
@@ProjectsWithDave Thanks for the video. I'm trying to build a totally off-grid system to power my home. I'm trying to use solar during the day to support my Anker Solix portable generators, so that at night the house runs totally on my generators. I need something to keep my generators powered up. Can the Server Rack batteries support and work with the Anker F3800?
Thank you for the video!
South Africa is currently in a national state of disaster because of rolling blackouts. Everyone is trying to get their hands on backup power systems. Your channel really provides us with a lot of much needed info on how these systems should be expected to work. Even though the electricity standards are different here in RSA it still helps.
I'm glad it has been helpful for you.
Victron "European" model supports being connected to 400V three phase TN and 230V three phase IT/TT grids.
Connecting to a 230V from a 400V TN grid would pretty much the same as in the video, just higher voltage between N and L1.
Hi there
How much is all these units together??
You can get the circuit diagrams, parts list and cost on the projects page on my website: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/
Thanks for the no BS video. Just facts, no hype, actual tests.
Great video. I just have one caveat which I learned the hard way. For such emergency backup systems you should assume the worst case scenario and place the battery and all components at least two feet above the worst potential flood level. You should also include some type of overhead protection from such things like roof leaks. Finally, make it as easy to operate as possible, without any special procedures because when it hits the fan, you will be reacting at a basic primal level with few reasoning abilities.
If my house floods, then power is the least of my worries! I'd be looking at a biblical type event!
@@charlieodom9107 your whole house could go up in flames if the cells get wet. So you don't necessarily need a flood to warrant protecting your cells from water; your house is piped with it, it falls from the sky, animals urinate it, etc.
Use an IP65 electrical cabinet
@@charlieodom9107 yup. I you put it where the water floods. Anything else it protects well enough. I find these wood based installation highly unprofessional.
@@petebra11 lfp batteries(like he shows) won't burst into flames like that.. nmc and lipo however are way more reactive
Downloadable Parts Lists with Cost and Circuit Diagram - Link: drive.google.com/file/d/1dMR7HIPvhcqb2EtShifwQy49ZrQrgJT6/view?usp=sharing
Current Connected Website Affiliate Link: www.currentconnected.com/?ref=pwd
Find More information for this project and others on my website: projectswithdave.com
Watch the split phase upgrade install of this system here: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
Check out my DIY 12V off grid system here: th-cam.com/video/OwfGLu8IY_M/w-d-xo.html
Check out my latest solar install on my shed here: th-cam.com/video/Y8OGxdJ9cU8/w-d-xo.html
Check out my original ground array install here: th-cam.com/video/_xA6qOwnYbM/w-d-xo.html
Great breakdown on bifacial solar panels here: th-cam.com/video/1SXNjsSsmq0/w-d-xo.html
Nice Video lot of info, now take it a step farther and tell me what all I need to add a little PV to the system.. Thanks
Update with solar coming soon...
When you pointed out the value of winding the wiring back and forth between studs in consideration of future modifications or improvements, I just HAD to hit the subscribe button! This alone is a very helpful suggestion.
Keep making these!!! Funny, my favorite and smartest part is when you build that little "pop out" box that bridges the wiring and allows you to mount the outlet box at the proper alignment for the conduit. SMART DUDEEEEEE
Thanks! It's the little things....
Thanks Dave, Don't forget the sub panels are never bonded and should be checked to see if there is continuity between the neutral and the ground as there should be none.
Correct, I didn't detail that in the video, but I confirmed by continuity check that the panel ground and neutral were not connected.
@@ProjectsWithDave I only mentioned because it seems there are quite a few panels that are bonded.
I am not ready yet but sure appreciate your videos! I love how you have learned along the way.
Hey, Current Dave, good job on having Past Dave set things up right for Future Dave, now you. The "extra wire" is called a "service loop" because it's typically set up as a loop to allow there to only be one splice to move it, not two. You may see these on utility poles as a run of fiber-optic or copper cable going back and forth between two poles to add length. If there's a fault, the extra material from the service loop is used -- one splice -- and the segment with the fault removed. If there wasn't a service loop it would require one splice to connect to the known-good part and one to extend to the service. With electrical it's not that big of a deal but with 640 fiber-optic strands it's a ***.
It's convenient you can put all your stuff next to the load panel. Mine's outside the house, which presents its own challenges. Also in the US regionalism means some of us call it a "load panel" (nobody I know does this), others a "breaker box", and if you read the NEC, "panel board." Most techs I work with call it "breaker box."
You did say "6-3" but didn't elaborate. Perhaps some of your newer viewers might be better educated if you explained that it means 6-gauge 3-wire cable, good for one phase up to 55A, voltage whatever residential you like. If you want split-phase (or "two leg") you'll want 6-4 to get the two phases (red+black for power, white for neutral, green for ground.)
One other comment - 1/0AWG isn't a whole lot of headroom for "future growth". Its ampacity is a bit above 60A or just a bit about 6AWG. If you're sticking with single phase (110-120VAC) and ran 6-3 to the breaker box... you can save the $2/ft for 1/0 and just do 6AWG. Most houses in north America are wired at up to 200A (two phase) so 6AWG will carry half that load just fine.
Also, while you're supposed to put the inverter 10cm away from other devices, it really depends on airflow... so in a basement with no airflow 10c may not be enough. On a wall in a hallway or in an HVAC-cooled room it's more than enough. Temp it with a laser tstat when off, temp it when on, and temp it at max perf and if you see it get hot, move it or put a fan on it.
E
Thanks for the detailed feedback. I'll try and remember my new terminology... "service loop" since I seem to like to use it a lot. : )
The cost efficiency and the wise application of user-administered components here is outstanding, you really know your stuff. Sadly I’m not quite so practical working with electrical wiring like this at all (I’m just a regular guy researching home battery backup). This sort of approach is a great way to break away from proprietary vendor specific products (which are also far more expensive). Is this sort of setup accomplishable with the help of an electrician, with me there to simply fund everything? I wonder about support as well. I suppose it would behoove the owner to at least get past the initial learning curve to make the most out of a system like this (even if they had professional help to prevent them from making dumb mistakes).
You should be able to find an electrician to help you assemble your system. Current Connected (link in description) is a great source to get your materials from because you can tell them what you want to do and they will pre-program the units for you.
Nice job. Two things -1. the cable lengths from the battery to the Inverter should be as short as possible and the cable lengths the same length - preferably not coiled. 2. The fuse should be less than 12 inches from the positive side of the battery - best practice. There are lots of discussions about this on the web.
Thanks. 1) The cables should be as short as possible, however, I plan to make changes later so I didn't do that in this case. Series cables don't need to be the same length and coils in DC lines are not a concern. 2. For the fuse, in this case, there is not a significant difference with the 1/0 awg cable I used and the short distance between the battery and the inverter. Thanks for the feedback!
Hey Dave, great video. I'm in the process of doing something similar at home. I chose an MPP LV-MK series inverter because of it's "double conversion" capability, but it's possible the Victron and others can do the same. This is less efficient, but results in 0ms / instantaneous transfer time when the grid power goes out.
One thing I researched a fair amount was battery chemistry and optimal consumption behavior. From what I gathered, the lifespan of these SOK and EG4 lithium is way better than old-school lead acid / gel / AGM batteries. BUT... LiFePo4 don't like to sit idle at a fully-charged state. It reduces their life compared to daily charge/discharge cycles common to solar usage.
That's why I chose gel batteries (Renogy 100AH deep cycle hybrid gel, valve-regulated/sealed lead acid chonkers).
I would have tried silicate-salt, but they're really heavy and would have been at least $270 to ship. That and there isn't a whole lot of info about them.
Every battery has an optimal application and the only way to make the best decision for your application is to take the path you're on and do do a lot of research. Some more information to consider; with a good inverter, you can control the capacity level of your cells to maximize their lifespan. For instance you can make the max charge point at 60% or 80% to minimize the dendrite growth. Either way the LiFePo4 chemistry is the best for longevity if you go Lithium.
Another great presentation. Thanks.
You are definitely old-school: aligning your screw-heads. Great to see teaching of the little things, in the trades.
Funny you should say that. I live in Ireland but worked for an American company here in the 80's and 90's "Wabco Westinghouse" which was owned by Union Switch and Signal and we always alligned the slots on the screw terminals Vertitally on our wiring of signal and track transformers and such. Reason I was told was not to trap moistre in the slots.
Hello,
I am from India and working as solar rooftop designer. Your video help me a lots.
I find all this extremely fascinating. Now that we've moved to a home with a little acreage, I'm learning as fast as I can to install my own solar battery system, with hopefully the intention of going mostly (if not completely) off-grid. We have a very large electricity consumption on average, so that's the pretzel head I get when doing the math.
The other biggie is the massive "pucker factor" when actually hooking all this up to my main panel. I'm fairly handy doing lots of things. But the thought of connecting solar to power my entire home is quite the hurdle.
It is a lot to learn. But if you do a couple of small projects to start learning you will get the hang of it and it will be less intimidating. You can always install the system then get an electrician to make the final connections.
It must feel really good to have this level of self-sufficiency. Awesome video and I always learn something watching your vids.
It is nice not to be worried about the price of electricity going up or the power going out. Thanks for watching!
I saw this a while ago, but now getting more serious about adding backup power. I'm looking at the EG4 18K inverter & 2 interior PowerPro battery packs. Great video !
I just bought an EG4-12K-PV to take on half my array. I'll have some content on it soon.
EG4-12K-PV: signaturesolar.com/eg4-12kpv-hybrid-inverter-48v-12000w-input-8000w-output-120-240v-split-phase-rsd-all-in-one-hybrid-solar-inverter/?ref=SALE
Subscribed once I heard you say to align all the outlet box faceplate screws the same direction!! THAT IS A MUST!!!💥🤘
Kudos for the torque wrench. This is a critical connection.
Concerned about the scene where you open the battery box and poke around inside. I saw a ring on your finger. With the kind of energy stored in those cells, any inadvertent cross contact done by your ring would likely result in the ring welding to the source and your finger being burned off. This would leave you with a mess and people nicknaming you "Stumpy". Always remove any and all bling before ever opening a energy source no matter what you think of it's on or not, hot or cold or not. It's always hot.
Great suggestion, thanks!
Also keys or watches
I suggest when you start buying your system you start out buying a hybrid wind / solar charge controller, and a charger/ inverter, so when you upgrade you don’t need to buy new components, now you can max out your solar panels and batteries for going off grid but still have the option to charge your batteries off the grid , or just help keep them topped off for longer life , keep in mind , when it is windy , wind generators work better then solar , but on no wind Days Solar works better , and it not only the wind you need to take into consideration, it’s the clouds also
It's amazing how many people I have met in my life that don't understand how dangerous rings are at work. If you're working around the house or at work, the last thing you should have on your fingers is a ring. If you do, you're either stupid or a cuck.
I saw a man at Boeing field and airport in Seattle. Working on an airplane and a fuel truck. Backed up underneath the wing and knock the ladder from underneath him. He grabbed on to the engine pod where he was and I saw him fall but what I didn't realize until I got up close to him was it. When he fell, his ring had become caught on the edge of the engine pod and it took his finger and the tendon connected to his finger all the way up to his elbow out he was partially the gloved. That's what they call it when you the skin around. Your fingers comes off on your hand. All because he had a stupid wedding ring on
It's amazing how many keyboard warriors there are😅
Great video Dave! Well organized and presented content.
Dave, Your batteries would get more even distribution if you used a busbar and had equal length cables running to each battery from the busbar. It probably doesn't seem like there's much of a difference as it's currently configured, but I suspect it will add up over time.
Also, you might want to build some kind of a protective cage around those batteries if you're going to be parking cars around them. You never know what can happen...
BTW, no link to the fuse(s)? ;)
I linked to a Megafuse instead of the CNN fuse since that's what they stock on Current Connected's website. Makes it easier to order everything from one site. Or you can get the CNN fuse here: amzn.to/3SYhpIJ
And a fuse holder here: amzn.to/3yKdves
"even more distribution"? What does that even mean?
Equal length cables? LoL...oh dear.
@@deang5622 No, I said "more even distribution". And yes, current will take the path of least resistance, so if the resistance isn't even, the distribution to the batteries or to load won't be either.
in the case here, I think he could even current draw by keeping most of his wiring intact, but moving the positive inverter supply to the other battery. With 3+ batteries, though, I think you'd need a bus bar.
Voltage droop doesn't happen until the wire is tasked to carry more current than it is supposed to carry. Watch your meters while the load goes up. I saw 104volts when you made one pass that connected with the log well. Michael in Colorado.
Yes, that's pretty close to the minimum I measured.
Great directional video! You are definitely not a novice installer. Neutral or negative wire is the “captain of the ship” first one on and last one off.
Thanks!
Great video as always. Makes me even more excited to install my Solark system! Now I'm gonna need to buy some of those SOK batteries.
Go for it! They are working great!
Thank you for your video or videos. They are very educational! As a DIY’r I can not learn enough! I am reaping my rewards for my efforts from guys like you! God bless you and God bless America !
Thanks! I'm glad it's been helpful for you. My goal is to learn as much as I can and share what I learn with the community, It's nice to know it's valued.
Great video Dave! I'm starting from scratch and this is pretty close to what I'm looking for. Primarily looking for standby backup power for critical circuits. I have considered solar but we simply have too many large trees to make it cost effective.
Is it possible to have the UPS setup but be able to supplement battery charging with a gas generator when there are longer outages?
I'm not clear that using a transfer switch on the multiplus a/c input would give the desired result? Or would it? Would the excess generator power charge the batteries?
Are there other Victron models (or other brands) with better a/c input connections, not the push-in?
Maybe the Victron Quattro Inverter is what I'd want?
Thanks
Tony
Thanks! It can take generator input to charge the batteries, no problem. There are several other options on the market. I will demonstrate a few in an upcoming video.
Subscribed. Love the video. Clear, to the point, you put a lot of care into planning out the system, and all with a great demeanor and presentation.
Am so glad I've found your channel, covering standby power, I've been looking @doing this in different way to provide 24hr off peak lectricity charge batteries @night 1am-8am then use batteries to run bungalow day/evening! So l can have 24hr off peak should save bag of money with energy prices rising so much!🤗😎
Glad I could help!
Thanks Dave! Another great DIY video! Learned the difference between ANL and CNN fuses, new to me!
Yea, there are a lot of nuances when it comes to fuses. It requires some research for each situation.
Remove wedding ring when working with electricity! Neat set up!
Thanks!
Love the shelf bracket idea. Awesome tutorial!
I hope that dewalt has a 220 option. It would get a lot less bogged down and never go over 15 amp because it's not starving.
Good vid on the entire setup.
Thanks! Yes, 220 would help the planer quite a bit.
3kw solar/10kw batteries is the perfectly proportioned starting point from my experience, its even capable of running a small split system Ac all day and throughout the night depending on your location. There are far cheaper solutions than the Victron for a budget system unless you want to run a mitre saw which a cheaper inverter might not be able to handle the large start up current of.
They are NOT 10kW batteries! They are 10kWh batteries.
The video producer even got the units right, so why can't you?
@@deang5622 yawn
great video. You or others might want to not wear a ring while doing this sort of work. Thanks for putting this together.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent video! My every curiosity was satisfied with excellent setup instructions, and tests. Well played sirrrr ! Keep up the GREAT work ! 😎👍💯
Thank you very much!
Ive built a couple batteries for my off grid home. I used the eve280k cells this last time and nissan leaf modules the first time. Both my batteries have much more capacity than those server rack batteries qnd i have much nicer more capable bms. The nice thing about your server rack batteries are the ease of install.
I've considered building my own batteries just for fun. But it's hard to justify with what's available off the shelf these days.
@@ProjectsWithDave I like the battery and solar build stuff as a hobby and since finding out about having stage 4 cancer it's helped keep my mind off bad stuff. I'd have probably bought the server rack batteries but they are kinda an expensive way to get 30 kw or so of power storage compared to building your own. I like the look and convenience of the server rack stuff tho.
Thank you so much Dave for all your efforts and sharing them with us.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Another way to take care of the inrush of the inverter when it is first setup is to use a variable DC power supply to bring the Voltage up on the input with the batteries turned off. Serves the same as the precharge resistor in that it allows a control over the current the capacitors draw. That is how I do it on my 6K inverters.
Thanks for the tip!
I like that idea !!!!
Thanks Dave, it would be awesome if this system could backfeed the grid once the batteries are fully charged.
In my case, I just use my grid tie system for back feeding.
@Projects With Everyday Dave cool, that makes a lot of sense, do you have a way for your existing solar array to charge these batteries in case of a longer outage?
Not yet. I'm working on an AC coupled solution with a Sungold inverter, but I haven't had a chance to set that up yet.
Dave! Excellent job. I'll refer customers who ask me "How to...", to view this video. Thank you for following NEC.
Thanks!
Great review. You mention the capability to take 20 Amps of a generator and boost it another 25 amps... But what about the opposite?
Can it go directly from solar (without battery) @30 amps and then boost it to 40 amps as needed from the grid or a generator if needed to drive a heavier load?
Glad to see that the fuse holder has a cover! However, I am not a big fan of the "push in " connection method that the MultiPlus-II uses for the wiring for the AC connection. I don't mind the convenience, but I would prefer something that I can tighten down to make sure that there is no chance of something pulling out.
This unit is an inverter/battery charge controller. It does not have solar capability. With Victron that is a separate unit. The connectors aren't my favorite either, but to be fair if I set them properly I can't pull them out. That being said I also preferer the control of a lug connector.
Thanks for the video Dave. Wondering why not connect the AC power cable (inverter going to subpanel) on the normal lugs for ac entry as opposed to plugging /back feeding using 50a breaker?
That way I could have a single pole breaker for the back-feeding circuit. It also allows me to bridge both hot legs of the load center to make every breaker 120 If I want to.
@Projects With Everyday Dave thanks Dave. Forgot to ask, what is the max amps the AC output (going from inverter to subpanel)? Can this be programmed?
The max output is 50A plus 25A boost from the battery for a total of 75A when connected to shore power. You can limit the amount of power pulled from shore in the settings to as little as 1A. Here is the manual for details: www.manualslib.com/manual/2414478/Victron-Energy-Multiplus-Ii-48-3000-35.html?page=16#manual
Thanks Dave! Can I ask what program to use to show your calculations / animations?
I just build my graphs in Excel and PowerPoint and export the images.
Dave good job I am thinking that is a project I need to do I have an oxygen concentrator that needs to run 24 hours. Fortunately we have not experienced any prolonged outages here but the system you have setup would make me rest easier at night.
Yes, the UPS function worked great.
Very nice presentation....I don't usually reply. But this time, you deserve it. A couple of suggestions. You might talk a little about battery chemistry and the advantages of LiFe PO4 batteries. And you might also talk about how a solar array could be added to slow battery depletion.
Thanks for the tips!
Instead of bending your length of hook-up wire 11:00 I'd just put a 'loop' in the wire, it's easier to do, and handy when using an Amp Probe for current readings.
.
I did this for my RV .. 3kw hybrid all in one POWmr, 468.00 + 2x 200ah lifep04 (469.00 ea) and about 90.00 worth of breakers and 8awg cable and connectors . 20amp power outlet .. and 1kw of solar panels 24v system .. under 2200 for the entire system
Do you know what the inverter idle consuption is of this inverter?
I get about 9W.
@@ProjectsWithDave , Thanks. That's pretty good!
It's very good!
This is close to what I am planning. One difference is to drive 240V split. So with current Victron components I'd need 2 MP II/Quattro, or an MP II/Quattro + Victron autotransformer... OR wait until Victron comes out with a single unit that supports 240 split.
agreed... dropped a dozen of used solar panels on the roof... $100 mppt contol... runs the house on a 3000 all in one inverter... charges at night if needed. but no backfeed.
This gentlemen has a great setup.
This is exactly the video I am looking for! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video! You consistently meet expectations!
Great video thank you Dave I have learned so much from you. I do have a question can I hook the battery system up to my system since I feed it back to the power grid. Sorry if I am not using the correct thermology still learning.
Yes, these batteries can be connected to grid-tie systems as long as the inverter is designed to manage the power.
Thanks for the great content. It's nice to see that it handled the planer load, (what's the ambient temp in the inverter room) would be great to see more load testing and see how it compares to the datasheet ratings. I do have a request, could you measure the no load idle current of the inverter? According to the Victron community forums, it seems to be common to get a unit that draws 60%-80% more than the datasheet rating. Victron's response has been, performance can vary unit to unit, and there is no fix besides replacement.
The ambient temperature at the time of testing was about 65deg F.
I get about 9W at idle. It has the lowest idle consumption of anything I've tested so far.
Thanks a lot of the video. I would really be interested to see something similar with a peak shaving system.
Thanks for the project Dave. Love it!
Glad you like it!
Only a couple min in so forgive me if you answer this later - is this system certified (UL, etc.) and can be inspected by the utility? Also, will a system of this size (110ah batt and 3k inverter) be sufficient to run a couple fridges and sporadic microwave/washer in the event of a power outage?
This system can run the devices you listed no problem. Because this system is off-grid, it may not require inspection in your area, but you should check with your local inspector. Many Victron components are not UL listed, so you have to check individually. Thanks!
Great video and cool backup system. I was tempted briefly but... The cost of the 2 batteries plus the Multiplus II would be about $9000 (Can) with tax! Yes it would save me from having to run outside and start the generator and yes that could happen while I was away - but that would have to occur quite often to cost me $9000 worth of groceries. More disappointing is that it wouldn't power my 240v well pump. That would require the system in your split-phase video which would cost double, or 18-20k!
Also, if I added solar panels, the system would not sell back excess energy to the grid to provide net metering nor would it (if I understand the operation of the Multiplus-II) utilize solar power when the grid is active to reduce my hydro bill by powering the circuits from solar energy.
You might consider a more value oriented hybrid inverter that can sell to the grid like the EG4 18K: signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kpv-hybrid-inverter-all-in-one-solar-inverter-eg4-18kpv-12lv/?ref=pwd
Great video thanks! Looking at doing this myself, just wondering if there is a way to ensure battery charging is done at a cheap/off peak rate or with excess solar only? I’m on a grid tied solar system. Thanks.
Yes, there are charge controllers that can manage the time of day. SolArk is one, but there are other, you just have to look at the specs.
@@ProjectsWithDave I see, ok great thanks for your reply 🙂
This man spoke English before he spoke about the tools he'll be using. From then on it just felt like I was watching aliens build a spaceship. Watched the whole thing. Great video.
Thinking of similar setup with a Victron inverter. Question: If grid is out for a long time and batteries drain to cut off soc/voltage, will the inverter start back up by itself when grid comes back and start powering the panel and
Charging batteries again? This will be setup
At a remote cabin to keep our fridge/freezer/internet/cameras running there were there are frequent power outages.
Yes, as soon as power is restored it will resume charging the batteries.
@@ProjectsWithDave thank you! Self unattended restart is critical since family is at the cabin one week a month. Great content. Keep up the great work!
Do you know if the victron unit is allowed under the NEC standards? In otherwords heaven forbid a fire breaks out will this install be covered by insurance?
This unit is not UL certified, but it is operating in "off-grid" mode. I'm not sure what the fire insurance implications are. You should discuss that with your insurance agent.
I like this setup a lot. I may just build a system like this that's portable so I can plug into my generator inlet or take it with me. Seems much cheaper to expand than the all in one's. I could probably even use it to power a 120v welder completely silently.
The Victron inverter in this setup has a fairly loud fan when it is under high loads, so not completely silent.
@@ProjectsWithDave quieter than a generator though, I bet.
yes
Awesome video. The one question I have is if something goes wrong with the inverter and the repair time is longer than expected . How would you gain back power to those critical circuits without rewiring the setup. Thks
You could use a small junction box in place of the inverter temporally to pass the power directly through to the sub panel.
@Projects With Everyday Dave Good Idea. Thank you, sir 🙏
Great video thanks for sharing. Most video's do not cover the breaker boxes to inverter part of the solar deal...In time shortly I hope to start this aspect of my solar deal packup. .
Glad it was helpful!
Outstanding backup solution ever.
Great video, I like your professional way of doing electric install.
Thanks! 👍
Another great one! Thank you for this. I was thinking about doing the same!
Go for it! It works even better than I anticipated. I love it!
do you have a video like this but for RV's or food carts?
Not at this time.
I might use this for my network and server rack instead of a factory ups because i cant get 240 to my rack and the victron specs fit the bill I will probably still have a smaller ups because the switch from battery to inverter is quicker but it should still work.
Thanks for taking the time to post this great video!
Glad it was helpful!
I want to build a solar generator that I can put on a hand truck to take to small events when I set up medical stands…I’m an emergency np and my company educates but we also travel a lot and provide medical support for small and medium scale events…I need a fast mobile power source and a noisy generator won’t cut it…and many carnivals and fund raising events like charity walks and community and political rallies don’t want a loud generator around…you’ve given me a fantastic idea…thanks…I can put a victron on a board and secure it to a hand truck and bring two or three batteries…I can use five or six 400 watt solar panels then to run the batteries…🤔
Great video! And thank you. How are you managing your ground relays? Turning it on or off? I have something very similar to this but using two multis configured in split phase. My neutral and ground bond is at the main panel. My critical load panel will not have a neutral/ ground bond on its own but will connect net/ground at the main load center. In theory I would think you would want the PE lug on the case of the inverter to be run to the main box and bonded there?
The load center has it's own independent ground connection. For the neutral, if you look at the circuit diagram for the Multiplus II, it shows a neutral/ground bond relay that switches on when the shore power is cut.
you'll be able to extend the fridge power draw if you set it right above freezing and cutting the power to it off and on.
a fridge can keep cold for long periods of time.
Hey Dave, I have a question for you. Why did you back-feed the critical circuit sub-panel as opposed to feeding the bus bar for that leg?
That way I could have a single pole breaker for the back-feeding circuit.
If you have ONLY refrigeration loads then look for a means of running the power for, say, 15 minutes in every hour. while checking that the fridges remain cold enough it means that the self consumption of the inverter can be off for 75% of the time, giving some added power efficiency and hence run time.
I’m fresh into this, so do your priority breakers only go in one box? Meaning for example the breaker for your fridge, is there one in each box you have, or is it only in the new battery back up box? Thanks for the video
In this setup, there is a separate load center that is essentially run off-grid. It is isolated and powered by the Victron inverter. That load center should have all of the emergency circuits you want to power, Fridge, microwave, sump pump, etc.
@@ProjectsWithDave so that will free up breaker space in the main box, I like it. Thank you
This is a great backup system. I really enjoyed your demonstration.
Glad it was helpful!
Can you expand your installation to a split phase setup? If you do, can you add a manual transfer switch (double throw) to be able to disconnect the subpanel from the inverters to have energy on the loads in the event the inverters fail. Would really like to see what is the proper procedure for the neutrals and grounds with a transfer switch in there. Thank you for the channel.
I have a version with a transfer switch and dual phase coming out in a couple of weeks.
That isn't an NEC (or probably CEC) legal installation, but it's pretty good. You can't have Romex where people can touch it, that has to have conduit. Other than that, that looks like a nice setup. I ran a generator for 12 days when we had a horrible ice storm recently, and I wish I'd had a battery system to keep from running it continuously.
Thanks for the feedback. I have also found it to be incredibly convenient for short power outages that used to force me to drag out the generator for only a few hours of use.
I have since expanded to dual phase to pick up my well you can see that expansion here: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
I then added solar, so now I can run all emergency systems almost year round without a generator at all. You can see the solar addition here: th-cam.com/video/6WO44Pa5EwI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Dave for a great and detailed presentation. I just have one question you covered very quickly 7:00 , in the event of lost power and battery gets low, how would I go about connecting electric generator from subpanel to the UPS panel to charge the battery.
In my case, I have a transfer switch that switches the AC input for the sub panel between Line in and Generator in. If the power has been out for a few days and I want to recharge the batteries, I can start my generator and plug it into the outdoor generator plug that is connected to the transfer switch. Then I can flip the transfer switch and the sub panel and inverter AC in will see power again and start to charge the batteries. If you have a small generator, the inverter has the ability to limit the input load in the settings so as not to overload the generator. Hope that helps.
You can see another way to wire it more directly from this split phase example: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
Very cool setup. I really like the new ECOFlow systems with there integrated power distribution system. It does cost more but I can use the ECOFlow batteries to power my RV or any other application for remote power.
Yes, the all-in-one options are getting very powerful.
My main panel is located in my bedroom and I don't have room to install equipment needed to do this setup. I do have a small 1k watt solar system. Unfortunately I have to use extension cords when I need to run refrigerator or anything else.
sorry question, im learning as much as i can... how does the switch over not back feed and power all the other circuits and only the emergency ones on the panel since the breaker will remain open to the main panel, thanks!
The inverter has an internal transfer switch.
@@ProjectsWithDave fantastic, thanks!
Fridges now days are very efficient,. Nice setup.
@ProjectsWithDave thanks for the video. Subbed to your channel. One quick question: if i want to run this system as a stanalone mobile unit (ie not connected to the main house distribution board) so straight from a plug point in my home to the ac-in of inverter, do i need breakers inbetween, or can i just connect directly?
Thanks for the sub! If you are plugging into a generator plug port on your house, it will have a breaker where it comes into your load center. You would just need to make sure it is sized appropriately for the size of wire you are using on the output of the inverter. However, If you are making a stand alone portable system, I would add a breaker in a small box on your portable unit, for the extra convenience and safety of being able to quickly and easily turn off the power at the source.
No central AC tests? We've had 4 months of 100 +F degree days down here in TX. Some days we had power outages, I'm looking for a battery system that can last 3 days running a 3.5 ton central AC, fridge, some lights, charge phones, router and use PC/TV to pass time.
Are you wanting the battery to last 3 days running AC without solar input? That would be a very expensive battery!
You would also need split phase like this setup: th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the great video. What is the transfer switch you arr using? I'm building a similar system and want to add a transfer switch to have the chance to use a gas generator to feed the charger in case of long outages. Thanks!
Thanks! Here are two options similar to mine:
TCA1006DR Outdoor Transfer Panel - 100A and 60A Generator: amzn.to/3FWIuI1
TCA1006D Indoor Panel/Link Transfer Panel: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HRWGPS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks for the video Dave, couple questions for you. I am looking to do a similar system at my house incase of a power outage and would like to run 2 fridges along with our fridge and tankless water heater (both are gas but have power for their internal computers). Have you done anything similar to that? Most systems and explanations I see online involve solar which is something I do not have at this point.
I was originally looking to add a transfer switch to a gas generator but then was thinking of an all in one system from Ecoflow or Bluetti. However, after further research I am thinking some type of standalone battery or a server system with an inverter. I like the idea of having the ability to add solar possibly in the future and top off my system with a gas generator when needed. Correct me if I am wrong, but if I go with a battery or server rack I will also need an inverter.
As I am thinking of the system in my head, does your inverter kick on automatically when the power goes out, or do you have to flip the transfer switch? Also, do you have a diagram of your setup available?
You can find the diagram and parts list on my website here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/
This system will automatically switch from grid to battery in a power outage (UPS mode).
Here is my project information on expanding to provide split phase 120/240V: projectswithdave.com/120-240v-victron-home-backup/
The Multiplus II in this video is a charger and inverter in one unit.
You can add a transfer switch to switch between grid power and generator power for the input if you want.
I am working on a video now that shows how to add solar to this system it will come out soon.
@@ProjectsWithDave, thank you for the responses Dave, they are very helpful! Looking forward to the future video. I also saw the video on the Ecoflows, now I feel like I am teetering back to a system like that. So many options and considerations!
Hello Dave, first let me say a great video and finding it was perfect timing. I have a few questions if that is ok.
1. why are people asking about a automatic switch when I thought the Victron has a built in rapid switch to use batteries when line power fails. or does it relate to using a generator as alternate input power.
2. my house was wired for a generator from the get go but I never installed one due to cost and the need for much larger propane tank. as such my main power feeds a 200amp panel with all the 220 (oven and AC's and a few 120 circuits, then has a 100amp breaker to feed a sub-panel which has all the outlets, refrigerator , freezer, microwave and internet router, modem, and Wifi Access points. most all of the breakers in this panel are 15amp but wired with 12ga multi strand. Ive never measured the draw but certain it is well below 100amps as entire house is 8w and 12 watt LED lights. if I understand the Victron maxes our at 50amps, so if my load with lights, and the appliance on is under 50amp, can I just change the sub panel feed from the main panel to the Victron and then use the extra space in main panel to provide 30amp line power to the Victron? one issue I see is the current 100amp breaker is a two pole so the sub panel has both phases of 120, no doubt to keep the load balanced.
3. our power outages are frequent especially during rain season and can be from a min to a few hours typically this is due to undersize utility main feeds to our area and utility line fuses tripping and then auto resetting rather fast. given that do you think 2 or 3 48V-100amp 5kw LiFePO4 batteries are sufficient?
I plan to measure the wattage of the refrigerator and freezer (separate units) and many of the lighting circuits and a few outlets to keep the internet and a TV on as well.
thanks for you video again.
Richard
Keep in mind, I'm not a professional electrician, you should consult a local expert for professional advice. That being said, here are my thoughts based on your available information:
1) The Victron has an automatic transfer switch allowing it to act like a UPS. It can easily manage your situation of short and long power outages.
2) You can move your 100A sub panel on the other side of your Victron inverter just like I did for my emergency circuits. If code in your area allows you can jumper both legs of the subpanel to make the whole panel 120V running off one leg of your 240V service. With properly sized conductors, you can run a 50A single pole breaker from your main panel to supply the inverter and a 75A single pole breaker from the inverter to the sub panel. The reason you can do 75A for the supply to the subpanel, is the inverter is able to take the 50A line voltage and boost it another 25A with the batteries for intermittent higher loads. Keep in mind the inverter can't supply 50A off-grid, it is only a 3,000W inverter. The number of batteries you would need would depend on how long you wanted to be able to run off-grid. I would start with 2 batteries and see if that meets your needs.
Hope that helps. If you contact Current Connected, they will program the inverter and batteries for your situation. Here is a link to there site: www.currentconnected.com/?ref=pwd
thank you. I doing the measurements seems I will need more then 3kw inverter or have to use 2 combined to get closer to 50amps off grid. I also plan to add solar next year at 6kw as the panel prices have come down a lot and our electric prices here are .45cents/kwhr. I will need to compare a hybrid 6-8kw inverter vs. two of the 3kw units for price and I see you already have done a video comparing some. that's a great start for me so again thanks.
Awesome..... question...I don't understand how SOK can make a battery bank that will last 20 yrs when a deep cycle marine battery lasts about 3-5.
Totally different chemistry. The SOK batteries are LiFePO4, they can handle thousands of cycles with very little impact to overall capacity. The drawback is they cost more and have to be kept above freezing for charging. In most cases, totally worth it!
I know you don't have this setup like this anymore, but do you know how much power it would draw like this? Using this as a UPS only, where it acts as a pass through until you lose power. I was wondering if they use power at all or can you put it in search mode for less power consumption?
The idle consumption of a single unit is almost exactly 10W when in standby off-grid. I measured it before changing the configuration. I don't know how much it consumes in UPS mode, but it shouldn't be more than 10W.
I watched this again recently, NEC says to Never bond ground and neutrals in a Sub Panel, only at the last point of disconnect (main panel) Did you Bond your Neutral and ground in your Sub Panel, or did you isolate them?
They are isolated.
How is your SSW or SW array doing? I’m installing 6.65kW facing 215 deg with panels angled at 66 deg. This should help with our Dec-Feb evening loads.
My SW setup hasn't seen January yet, but from what I have seen so far I anticipate anything between S and SW will work well.
Mister i have one question to be sure
This system does not have any solar panels right?
If so that means the battery will charge from government line
Thank you ❤
This system charges from the grid, it is set up as emergency backup only. Watch this video on adding solar charging: th-cam.com/video/6WO44Pa5EwI/w-d-xo.html
Question do you have a ground wire going from the sub panel back to the main panel. Thanks
Yes.
Hello, the applications you have made are very nice. There is a subject I want to consult you, when the inverter generates ac voltage from the batteries, there is no neutral at the ac output, there is an output accepted as 0v, have you had any problems with this situation or are you aware of it?
This setup does have a neutral. L1, N, G