The original creators and creatives are all gone from modern GW. Their current rules writers are completely focused on comp play and profit. This is why modern 40k is mechanically a card game, and your minis are just really expensive health counters now, and the game happens almost entirely in the deck/list building phase. Which also explains why all the new units are limited to a single type with little custimization. Comp, and cards. The narrative and the kitbasher are sitting at the back of the bus and watching all their toys and tools get thrown out for the sake of tourneys and live service video game seasonal churn.
Completely agree, I was screaming that it sounds like 10th ed is like overwatch post launch. 9th was a mess in its own right i dont think any edition is perfect, but the list building for the casual player is gone. I remember through 7th-9th enjoying all the little add ons for heros and units that just i spend maybe 10 minutes on a list instead of 2 hours fucking around. Like casual players suffered in overwatch for comp players and now we are too. 40k will never be an esport.
What does "narrative and hobby gamers" mean to you? It sounds like cope, which I've seen before. AFAIK, narrative and hobby gamers have always had their time to do whatever they wanted. Why do you feel like GW, the company, has to cater to such a niche audience that never buys their product? Of course GW will pivot for the comp because comp is the recurring paying customer. Sorry don't mean to be mean, but narrative and "hobby" gamers have always been the freeloaders. In. Every. FLGS. I've been to or part of.
@trip9g a niche audience? I'd easily wager that the total number of comp players is fractional compared to the recurring customer base that only play with their friends and in casual environments, never in tourneys. This isn't even a question, really.
GW today is beholden to the shareholder. That influences every single "creative" decision they make. Profit is their sole purpose. Compare the old rule books to the new ones. They absolutely do not give you value for money. Heck look at Rogue Trader. There is so much you can do with that compared to the new stuff the new stuff is super restricted. But hey people buy it for some reason but apparently don't care about being hosts for a parasitic company.
@@BjornKuma Narrative and hobby gamers are the silent majority of non-paying customers. We call them, secondaries. The silent mass that comments through youtube videos of lore breakdowns. They visit your local FLGS, perhaps buy a small box, a paint pot, and then you'll never see them again. To all gamers like this I say: Participate in the communal aspect or be relegated to the "narrative and hobby gaming" copium. Face your crippling anxiety and meet new people. You'll be fine.
In the early tyranid dexes, you could make a "mutable genus" unit with different mutations to the rest of your army. For example you could customize your hormagaunts to be faster / rip armor better / have more attacks / spit acid and many other things. And that's even without mentioning the sheer levels of customization on your big beasties. And the nids were NOT alone in this. You could outfit and shape your armies in various ways. This is now dead. You basically take a unit and whatever it has in its codex entry is all it has and all it will ever have. Choice was taken out in favor of visibly better / worse units for the points. This is no longer a wargame. This is a competitive tabletop card game that happens to use models.
One of my favorite thing Tyranid used to have, probably the smartest part of their design imho, was the way their ranged weapon strenght was based on the wearer strength (like melee weapons used to be). That meant that giving +1S to your unit also buffer their ranged effectiveness. It also meant that everyone in the army was roughly using the same 4 or 5 same guns, but with wildly different effects, it was both simple to understand and deep... All that is gone now. Now every weapon have random stats that don't really make sens or are consistent accross the army or the game.
On the topic of the "remake old things but slightly different to force people to buy again" thing, I think the most insulting example of recent memory was the Dimachaeron tyranid that was suddenly a huge viable pic for an edition.... to suddenly got sent to legend the next edition, and release a brand new "Norn Emissary" that's literally the exact same thing.
Yea that killed me. Everyone had just went and bought them because they were really good/fun and then boom. Gone. I have owned 3 total...thank god i didnt pay fw prices for them 🙏 😅
I have three heresy armies, death guard word bearers and iron warriors all at 1500 points fully painted, never played a single game, I just love the lore xD
I'm almost convinced that keeping up with GWs churn and customer abuse and gaslighting requires literal mental illness. I 100% think they are exploiting OCD, etc.
Definitely. You can't have literally every single consumer of your product have a "pile of shame" without something fishy going on. I've never seen that in any other hobby, where people buy "game pieces" to just stack them, unopened, in a corner and never touch it. The thing is, that kind of gravy train can only go on while things are still in the realm of "kinda affordable" and when you have the insurance that the box you are pilling will still be usable in 20 years. This isn't the case anymore. More and more people have woken up to the fact that things are too expensive to just buy on a whim, and the "treasure stash" they have been pilling for a while is in fact just one new edition away from being a worthless pile of plastic that aren't even "legal" to use anymore.
Idk, I recently got into AoS and about to get into 40k with some friends. I've been having a blast. Honestly, I've been quite happy with the way GW treats their playerbase. I know thats probably controversial. I think of it this way. People have hobbies. Hobbies cost money. You **choose** your hobby. It should bring you joy and the money you invest into that joy shouldn't be scrutinized to the extent I see a lot of the bitter GW "fans" do. I have a group at my local game shop I've become friends with. I have taken up mini painting, something I NEVER thought I'd do in my life, and it turns out I love it. I have completely nerded out over the lore and books. I have a fully encompassing hobby now, I love discussing my minis and painting techniques with people who are interested, my wife and I even got into AoS together. I know this is a lot of nonsense to strangers online, but I get so tired of the constant pitchfork carrying people do against GW. I think over time it's easy to get jaded and hate a faceless company, especially when we're in echo chambers like this comment thread or various subreddits. I just think if everyone took a step back and assessed if GW creates a product you even want to be a part of. If not, cool, not for you, find some other cool tabletop game to explore. I don't know why people love to hate GW, but it's kinda sad to me. I actually found a company I enjoy standing behind for the quality of the product they create. Are they infallible? Fuck no lol. But I think if we stop acting like GW is controlled by some evil entities and see they're a massive company trying to meet profit margins while creating a fun and globally reaching hobby, maybe we won't judge them so harshly. Be upset man, but realize other people actually love the hobby and aren't mentally ill. And no, GW doesn't have a gun to my head.
@Nah_090 "I'm a brand new guy that has yet to get into the game, but let me write an essay as to why everything about that game I don't play is fine." Ok, buddy.
@@Pers0n97 that’s not what I said whatsoever. I said “recently”. Recent is subjective, isn’t it? It’s been about a year. I spent time painting. Have a fully painted army. And I’ve played quite a bit. I’ve done some local shop tournaments which were a blast. And I’ve read about 5 of the AoS books. Tell me how I haven’t gotten into the game by your standards. All I’m offering is a counterpoint to these echo chambers of weird bitterness and hatred towards a company that makes plastic models. I think you being so reductive to someone in my position speaks volumes. You keep your mindset, I’ll keep mine, and we’ll see who’s happier at the end of the day.
@@Nah_090 MY guy, you are neither as unique, original or smart as you obviously think you are. I've been in the hobby since 3rd edition and I've seen a lot of a upstart posers that just started and apparently know better than you everything that relate to GW. These posers usually quickly vanish once they realize what we tried to warned them about is actually true. I legit don't want to waste more time with yet another one of your cringy kind, but I hope for your own sake that you'll grow up one day and realize that people that have been invested into something for decades longer than you may actually have a better perspective than you.
So my friend group have personally dropped 10th, we now HH, 5th-3rd Ed 40K. If you can get your hands on the rules & rule books for that era of warhammer I’d definitely recommend it. I even know a few other people that play 8th-9th still. In my local area there is really only one group (the hyper competitive group) that devour 10th. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea for sure. I personally want to try to expand into playing OPR as well to try that out as the only issue with older editions is not having rules for the cool new shiny models.
Yessss, normalize playing the best era of 40k. right around 4th is when i got into it, and it's only gone down from there. I was working with some others on a fan edition based on 3rd-5th, but everyone kinda fell off. I'll have to see about reigniting it when i get back on the 40k bandwagon.
As with everything GW related, 40k peaked around 3.5ed. The game used to be both simple and deep. You could deeply and MEANINGFULLY customize your army back then. Stats used to mean something, lore used to mean something. Since 8th the game devolved into AoS40k were everything pretends to be simplified but is instead extremely complexified and bloated (the best example for me is blast template. You used to just pick up a plastic disk, put it over a squad and see how many people are hit. It was simple, flavorful and impacted how you positionned your units. It got removed and replaced by the blast rule. A convoluted rule that change the number of attacks depending on some arbitrary tresholds thay don't take into account your positioning. Its needlessly bloated and complex and just.... lame) Free wargear (ie forced maxed gear on every units) and locked unit size has been by far the worst change ever, it both makes the game more complex as you are now forced to roll 5 different weapon profile on every single units, and less deep as you cant customize your stuff like you want. Its awful. All of it. We badly need to go back to 3/4th.
If 11th edition 40k was released and was utterly immaculate, flawless, shinney and perfect in every way. If it were followed by codexes that made it even better, and 100% of the players and the community declared it to be the best it could be and would never go stale... 3 years later we'd get a new edition that by definition would be worse, and 3 years after that etc etc. I've played since 1st, you came in at a golden era, late 7th was a good game but had been broken by detachments and codex creep, 8th was the best it ever had been for the first 3 months until codexes hit and stratagems bred like shit on a petri dish, it's been a steady decline since then as far as bloating rules and fun goes. It saddens me to say it, but after 37 years playing the game, I basically pine for a 3 months period in the summer of 2017, and don't really enjoy what's left of it now or expect 11th edition to fix it. I say all this with a Norn Emissary on my paint table, but we play other games now, many different games, it's significantly more enjoyable.
I made the move to OPR, I'm a very casual player and can't be bothered spending hours to understand the rules then hours for me and my opponent to take turns moving our full army!
My guy, don't even get me started on 10th. New cannoness can't be built legally, our preachers give melee buffs but only to shooting units, the repressor got sent to the shadow realm, and Celestines got nuked even though they and the repressor don't even use unique kits, worst of all 50 mm base for Hospitaller making them an absolute chore to play because they don't fit in trays anymore and must be transported and moved like an armiger warglave despite being a cheap infantry unit. Ironically despite all this they are still kind of broken because GW keeps nerfing everything that gets good, but nerfing sisters miracle die would require them to basically remake the entire faction.
@@average_joe_krootdude5240 Sort of. The basic sisters and jump pack units look awesome (I painted them with the Valerous Heart theme and it is *chef's kiss*), but I think the Repentia are meh. The model detail is fine, but Repentia don't really look as described. In the books most of them wear something like a hooded cloak or mask to conceal their identity since its illegal to talk to them and they want to protect their old friends by removing temptation. Also their hair isn't as fucked as the models, they just ceremonially cut it with a knife so you no longer resemble a sister, they don't let a blind man with clippers go ape on you. Honestly, they just look like chaos cultists. So I guess the question is, would you like new tau with better sculpts if they were dressed like eldar?
Most of all, I'm fed up with the competitive players trying to cheat even in casual games at home. I don't even want to meet new 40k playes anymore, because it has become so common. I left Magic the Gathering a while ago because it's toxic af, and now I'm seeing the same happen to Warhammer.
I got into it back in 2005, a year into 4th edition. Back then, a 2k point game was a LOT of minis, and something you worked toward, not got in a single purchase. Back then it was a WAR game focused on WAR not just arbitrary points, like sports. objectives were present, but they narratively meant something to the factions, not just some marker you put down to... be near for no reason other than the game said so. Things died easier. marines had a single wound. Instant Death was a rule. Rerolls (the bane of my existence as someone who has played death guard v necrons) were rare. it was hit>wound>save. Now it feels like hit>reroll 1's>wound>this aura rerolls fails>save>I have feel no pain>ok, one guy died. 3rd edition was from 1998-2004. a good chunk of the books were still present well into the next edition. most everything had been remade from 3rd by the time 5th had finished its run, which was in 2012. there were not a great number of differences between 3rd to 5th. some things were added, some things were streamlined, some better, some worse. same game speaking the same language for 3 editions. I don't get to game much because i'm an introvert who enjoys the hobby more than the game. Now? every time i turn around there's a new edition, right when i got the codex from the last edition that was valid not long ago. If you don't want to deal with this, and don't play competitively in official tournaments, just get some friends together and choose an edition you like. I'm focused on 4th because it only went down from there. used book sites have the old codexes (if you lost yours) for under $20. rules run similar. you'll likely need to get a scatter die and some templates, but that's easy. A hobby shouldn't be this stressful, so i don't let it.
I am just getting started, 10th edition has been a pretty easy way to get into the game. A few of my long distance friends who play recommend 8th, but based on what I've seen, it does truly look like getting started in 10th and then trying out older editions later is the correct choice. The simplicity helps with doing multiple armys I think. I'm playing with T'au and Tyranid's but also play combat patrol often which removes even more of the complex stuff. These have made the game way more approachable. I've no intentions of entering any tournaments though, purely casual so might be a different angled take, but if you don't play competitive, you can play whatever edition you want
I only started playing this year. The rules bloat is definitely an issue that causes some exhaustion, more specifically, for me, that they don't update most of the abilities the units themselves have to function how they actually do (removing doublestrat, making 0CP into -1CP, 18" Lone Op Strats, etc.) Even in the app, they updated some things for everyone like redeploys, but not others. I can't comprehend why when it's as easy as a Ctrl+F. I like the rules changing, it makes me feel like everything is more dynamic, but it can be a downer when it's in 5 different PDFs and 2 $60 books. As for older models going away, going into 10th from what conversation I heard, it seems like a "go hard on experimentation and cut down on older units" attitude, hence why I didn't get any Tetras or Cyclics before the Codex (and tbqh I hated Cyclics anyway). Kroot being in a bad place rn is also a bummer. They were carried by their strats before 10.5 and now those strats are significantly worse, whereas the points and datasheets didn't change. Rampagers being Bloodcrushers for the same price but worse is harsh, as much as I love them.
Primary goal of a CEO is to maximize shareholder wealth. It's never going to be about the hobby or the enjoyment. Those are just byproducts of profitability.
Horus Heresy is in a pretty good place right now. I’m experimenting with adapting my 6th ed 40K codexes and using the heresy 2.0 rules. As someone who hasn’t played 40K since 8th, I’m finding 10th extremely difficult to get into. I can’t even just buy a codex and trust that what I’m reading isn’t completely invalidated. Starting back in 4th ed was way easier than this mess.
There’s nothing stopping you from just playing the older editions of 40K. I still play 4th edition all the time even though it came out before I was born! There’s also tons of games which are miniatures agnostic so you can use any models in them including your 40k army. I’m playing a game of WARSURGE this week, and that’s a pretty cool game where you use an app that’s a one time purchase of $15, to create a whole custom army with a list of 300 different possible special rules, but it calculates everything for you in the background!
I'm not much a of a gamer myself, I'm kinda more of a miniature converting and painting guy since I suck at playing the tabletop, but I'd like to get better at it someday
The reason they started putting characters in “bodyguard” units in 10th was because their abilities (lethal hits, re roll charges, etc…) can only effect the attached unit. In 8th and 9th, these abilities were an aura, usually 6” that stated “all friendly units within 6 inches of Captain Toughguy get XYZ” leading to everybody building armies centered around character auras, leading to big Death Stars of reroll wounds, reroll hits, -1 to hit, etc…This was unfun, and dictated/hampered lists. You no longer have that now.
Feels like my HQs aren't as important or cool anymore. There was ways to fix it without sucking the life out of it. Like having the aura only effect a certain number of units like Guardsmen HQs
GW is the reason I don't play GW games I stopped playing at 2nd version (1991), because the IGYG format is garbage. we went to a far better rules set that uses alternating activations and considered simultaneous game play. (this was decades before OPR) once GW removed the best aspects from rogue trader, character creation and troop creation rules, then went to the 'you can only use characters and troops GW creates - format. that was the end of 40k for us. now GW charges $40+ for a named character model that has an actual value of $5-$6, because only one is needed and the army requires it. this is nothing new. this has been the business model of GW since the early 80s. while I might buy the occasional model (third party and far under retail), the games are worthless!
I agree whole heartedly. They’re dumbing down the game options for armies, hyper restricting models to specific rules, what units a character can and cannot join, what models can be mounted in…. And then add their inability to create a set of rules that will only be changed the next day (RIP Leagues of Votann) which is absolute horseshit. And then only dumping out models for ONE faction while other armies get updates but nothing actually new. How many armies can I have for space marines alone? 4? And that’s not even faction based yet….. I like the older rule sets (I’ve been playing since third edition and was kinda hyped for 8th but 9th and 10th I saw the direction and was disgusted) All it is are blatant money grabs by GW and they have upped their prices like what… 6 times now???? Yeah no. 3d printing and making my own rules is where I’m going now. Anything officially GW can die in a fire. Love the models. Everything else needs to burn
I haven't watched the video yet. I'm going to guess it's because it sucks. It plays like a turn based e-sports, catering to super competitive 13 year olds. The armies don't play lore wise, battle field setup is boring, and there are so many updates you never settle into anything.
I am trying to get my Local Warhammer Community to try out stuff other than Age of Sigmar&10th Edition but its really really hard. I'm just....not excited for 10th. But Horus Heresy? Both Editions look awesome. 1st-8th Edition 40k? Interesting. 2nd Edition, 3rd Edition and 7th Edition are especially interesting to me. Hopefully in 2025 I'll have enough of my Minis Painted up&spent enough time using 30k&Pre-9th Edition Rules to spend time at the LocalGameStore and be able to do Demo Games.
This is supposed to be a complex game, made for young adults. I personally like a rule for every aspect of the battlefield. Artillery has a blast template. A flamer has a tear drop. Troops spread out to avoid them, ect. Don't support GW. They have sold the soul of the game years ago. Just choose your favored edition and maybe somewhere down the line GW will realize that this game isn't about profit margins, much less pleasing everyone.
I completely understand the sentiment of feeling disconnected while playing Warhammer 40k 10th edition, especially if you opt to use a titan walker. It can often feel like you are controlling a giant, clunky box rather than a formidable and powerful creature. The mechanics and gameplay of using a titan can often be lackluster and unexciting, leading to an overall boring experience. While the potential for epic battles and strategic maneuvers may be present, the execution falls short and leaves players feeling underwhelmed. This can be frustrating for fans of the game who were looking forward to controlling these massive war machines. Hopefully, future editions will improve upon the titan walker mechanics and bring back the excitement and thrill of commanding these iconic units on the battlefield. Until then, it seems that playing with a titan may not be as enjoyable as one would hope in Warhammer 40k 10th edition.
It seems utterly ridiculous and illogical that a titan, with its massive size and powerful weapons, would be unable to simply step on a small Gretchen or break out of combat to fire normally in a shooting phase. Instead, it is forced to act as a doorknob and shoot at the same unit with a -1 to hit. How does this make any sense? If someone had a gun pointed straight at your chest, there would be no penalty for aiming and firing accurately. Yet, in this scenario, a titan with giant guns is somehow hindered by a -1 to hit. It defies any logical explanation and adds an element of absurdity to the game. It's almost comical to imagine a massive titan struggling to hit a small target due to this arbitrary rule. In the world of Warhammer, where anything is possible, it's hard to understand why such a restriction would be imposed on one of the most powerful units on the battlefield. It just goes to show that even in a world of giants and fantastical creatures, some things still don't make sense. Lol 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
As someone who's been playing since the end of 4th and stopped at 8th, I cannot stand the game or the way most people choose to play it. HH and Kill Team are it for me right now and a lot of fun
I haven't enjoyed playing 40K since 7th edition, the streamlined rules seem so sterile like all the fun has been ripped out of it. I feel its completely aimed at competitive players the only thing I actually like about 10th is that characters can join units again as they could in every edition from RT to 7th (I am that old)
Each time theres a preview, i find theres less and less im inspired by the models. I started at the start of 8th ed, and wasnt very good as a player, came into my stride in 9th with Emperors children and drukhari, and just dropped off totally in 10th. The rules have been simplified to the extent that i feel the flavour and fun is just not there the way it was
Haven't played 40k since 8th. Early 8th was great with the get you buy books appendices. But during the end power creep started to happen...Was Checking out 10th but then reading the rules and how GW screws with the meta, i was like "No thanks!" However i mostly play WHFB now Old TOW. Fantasy was there OG game but was always the better game. However my tops are Necromunda, Kill Team and Mordheim. Good luck out there!
Weird that people still debate if 10th is a failed edition.. if a full half of your player base is still playing 9th or reluctantly playing 10th than yes it's a failed edition.
10th edition has killed wargaming at my LGS. My man has a full 1st company blood angels army and now most of it is legends or removed from the game and he has deathwatch too so he is just fucked. We play One page rules but we don't play every other day like we used too. All mine and his friends have quit. It just bothers me that a game and lore that we all loved has died because of 10th and the lore retcons.
We all have them days ... them weeks ... them times we just feal eahhh 😅 .... i always do hahh ... but since i dont play as much anymore myself ... just inspiration from others in the hobby pike urself give me the will power to just do somthen be it big or small for the hobby i love .... its hard to play these days ... wish we could go back to the fun times .. 15years ago ahaha 😅
10th is so poorly done, who ever thought giving your players less options and customization was a good idea needs firing. And the fact they bring codex's out periodically rather than having it all flushed out at the start of a new edition release is infuriating! Iv had it before were I got a codex and within a few months it's invalid.
10ed blows unless you play only competitively, in which case it's probably awesome. Everything is so evened-out and normalized that they may as well just make every dice roll a 4+ I played from 3rd to early 6th edition, and got out when things started getting really bad in 6th. I got back into the game right before 9th came out and man the difference in how GW ran things was night and day compared to the earlier years. It felt like they were trying to strangle every last cent out of their customer base; the fact that i had to re-base all my Dark Angels and Word Bearers in order to use them in an official tournament was extremely frustrating, so I ended up just not doing that.
@@average_joe_krootdude5240 Hopefully. I had a fun time in the Summer playing my Deathwatch. Bought Minis to expand them....then I lost my GUSTO. Bolt ACtion gets my juices flowing at the moment.
For me the game just feels a lot less flavorful, no more cool relics, no more specific army rules like chapters or legions, just generic detachments with generic enhancements. Merging of weapon profiles to be generic within a squad, free wargear making it just take the best one instead of a tactical decision. And the data sheet rules just seem kinda bland but also hard to keep track of when there are sooo many units on the table. Also missions and specific rules for terrain and movement or random bs being super technical and wordy. I recently got into 30k, which I thought would be a lot harder, but after playing it I found it much more intuitive and flavorful, and the gameplay was very engaging, especially with reactions and stuff, it all just feels good, if not a little complex at times, as opposed to 40K where it just kinda feels meh to me idk. TLDR: 40K feels bland, try 30k it’s surprisingly fun.
Yes. Precisely right. I started on 5th. Took a long break playing other games. Got sick of GW. I came back in 10th, with a bunch of brand new armies. I have the most positive vibes possible, but still: enormously disappointed with new 40K. Games take too long, too technical, too many rules. Very little engagement with boring terrain, with the actual models, with the lore, the fluff on the table. Game is like deck building. It just weird. Not don’t feel like a war game.
Yeah after a year of 10e GW just lost me. 10e isn't very good and GW's crazy schedule is oppressive. My friends and I are only playing now using our own house rules versions of older editions.
Try playing Crusade (great for custome build and kitbashing), or try building a lore reason to play games. Try kill team its another great way to find the fun again.. 40k burn out is real.
I think there's two major problems at fault: 1. Models in the game are too cheap for points. Every army including space marines now has units that are under 100 points, this leads to bigger, longer, worse games. Because every army cost less points you have to simply do way more bookkeeping, more rolling dice, turns are longer. It's gotten so bad GW are getting annoyed at the use of chess clocks in tournament play, despite them being necessary to actually play tournaments. If you want to see something interesting, go look at what 2000 points got you in like 3rd edition. There are photos out there. 2. Terrible internal balance. Without the use of wargear points to keep things in check, loadouts are "solved". Many units are bad and feel bad to use, so they don't get played. Many factions have like 1 or 2 actually viable lists, even in a faction like marines with 200 choices. There's less theory to craft, ergo there's less fun to be had, this is great for competitive, but it kills the spirit of the game that it's had until about 8th.
Gonna reply to myself to limit the essay. I feel you on the world eaters thing, like you guys don't even have BIKES. Half of your models are named characters it's insane.
Tuff love time! If you're willingly bending over to let bubba have his way with you don't complain that your ass hurts! What to do about it? First talk to your mates and agree on a edition that you all like and play that one. Or try a hobby that is very similar to the GW hobby but is made by people who love the game it's called Wargaming! Try "one page rules" you don't need to buy new figures you just need to download a free set of rules from their website plus an army list or two. Or one of the thousands of sci-fi wargames out there many of which are wargames agnostic.
40k became a normies game and anything that becomes mainstream starts getting milked to death and loses its soul. Now that the normies are playing it, they will buy everything that GW pushes out without question. They will buy the rules no matter how much they suck and how often they get updated. They will accept the new lore as it gets watered down to appeal to mass audiences. But what normies don't know is that there's other war games out there and that you can play older editions a 40K. This husband the best option for my group and we can vote to agree to introduce new and custom rules as we see fit. We've had a lot of fun with OPR and playing it has reminded me of the old days in the 90's when the 40K community was more closely knitted because we were all we had
Its sterile. Ive tried getting back into 40k, but every time I try im taken aback at how flat it all feels. The game is more competitvely oriented now, so mirrored deployment zones, more incentive to optimise and hard right and wrong options.
My experience has been the opposite I have met some neckbeards but most have been really genuine people. I live in Glasgow and wildcats and west coast gaming have awesome members both have a great community!
Apologies fo being so quiet 😅 didnt check the sound before uploading!
The original creators and creatives are all gone from modern GW. Their current rules writers are completely focused on comp play and profit. This is why modern 40k is mechanically a card game, and your minis are just really expensive health counters now, and the game happens almost entirely in the deck/list building phase. Which also explains why all the new units are limited to a single type with little custimization. Comp, and cards. The narrative and the kitbasher are sitting at the back of the bus and watching all their toys and tools get thrown out for the sake of tourneys and live service video game seasonal churn.
Completely agree, I was screaming that it sounds like 10th ed is like overwatch post launch. 9th was a mess in its own right i dont think any edition is perfect, but the list building for the casual player is gone. I remember through 7th-9th enjoying all the little add ons for heros and units that just i spend maybe 10 minutes on a list instead of 2 hours fucking around. Like casual players suffered in overwatch for comp players and now we are too. 40k will never be an esport.
What does "narrative and hobby gamers" mean to you? It sounds like cope, which I've seen before. AFAIK, narrative and hobby gamers have always had their time to do whatever they wanted. Why do you feel like GW, the company, has to cater to such a niche audience that never buys their product? Of course GW will pivot for the comp because comp is the recurring paying customer. Sorry don't mean to be mean, but narrative and "hobby" gamers have always been the freeloaders. In. Every. FLGS. I've been to or part of.
@trip9g a niche audience? I'd easily wager that the total number of comp players is fractional compared to the recurring customer base that only play with their friends and in casual environments, never in tourneys. This isn't even a question, really.
GW today is beholden to the shareholder. That influences every single "creative" decision they make. Profit is their sole purpose. Compare the old rule books to the new ones. They absolutely do not give you value for money. Heck look at Rogue Trader. There is so much you can do with that compared to the new stuff the new stuff is super restricted. But hey people buy it for some reason but apparently don't care about being hosts for a parasitic company.
@@BjornKuma Narrative and hobby gamers are the silent majority of non-paying customers. We call them, secondaries. The silent mass that comments through youtube videos of lore breakdowns. They visit your local FLGS, perhaps buy a small box, a paint pot, and then you'll never see them again. To all gamers like this I say: Participate in the communal aspect or be relegated to the "narrative and hobby gaming" copium. Face your crippling anxiety and meet new people. You'll be fine.
In the early tyranid dexes, you could make a "mutable genus" unit with different mutations to the rest of your army. For example you could customize your hormagaunts to be faster / rip armor better / have more attacks / spit acid and many other things. And that's even without mentioning the sheer levels of customization on your big beasties. And the nids were NOT alone in this. You could outfit and shape your armies in various ways. This is now dead. You basically take a unit and whatever it has in its codex entry is all it has and all it will ever have. Choice was taken out in favor of visibly better / worse units for the points. This is no longer a wargame. This is a competitive tabletop card game that happens to use models.
Exactly! It feels like they removed the hobby element.
One of my favorite thing Tyranid used to have, probably the smartest part of their design imho, was the way their ranged weapon strenght was based on the wearer strength (like melee weapons used to be). That meant that giving +1S to your unit also buffer their ranged effectiveness.
It also meant that everyone in the army was roughly using the same 4 or 5 same guns, but with wildly different effects, it was both simple to understand and deep...
All that is gone now. Now every weapon have random stats that don't really make sens or are consistent accross the army or the game.
Rogue Trader sadly looking through the window from outside; forlorn and forgotten but with every customization in the world.
You forgot the part where now it all needs represented on the table because of WYSIWYG
IIRC, ImpGuard also had customizable regiments
On the topic of the "remake old things but slightly different to force people to buy again" thing, I think the most insulting example of recent memory was the Dimachaeron tyranid that was suddenly a huge viable pic for an edition.... to suddenly got sent to legend the next edition, and release a brand new "Norn Emissary" that's literally the exact same thing.
Yea that killed me. Everyone had just went and bought them because they were really good/fun and then boom. Gone. I have owned 3 total...thank god i didnt pay fw prices for them 🙏 😅
I have three heresy armies, death guard word bearers and iron warriors all at 1500 points fully painted, never played a single game, I just love the lore xD
I'm almost convinced that keeping up with GWs churn and customer abuse and gaslighting requires literal mental illness. I 100% think they are exploiting OCD, etc.
Definitely.
You can't have literally every single consumer of your product have a "pile of shame" without something fishy going on.
I've never seen that in any other hobby, where people buy "game pieces" to just stack them, unopened, in a corner and never touch it.
The thing is, that kind of gravy train can only go on while things are still in the realm of "kinda affordable" and when you have the insurance that the box you are pilling will still be usable in 20 years.
This isn't the case anymore. More and more people have woken up to the fact that things are too expensive to just buy on a whim, and the "treasure stash" they have been pilling for a while is in fact just one new edition away from being a worthless pile of plastic that aren't even "legal" to use anymore.
Idk, I recently got into AoS and about to get into 40k with some friends. I've been having a blast. Honestly, I've been quite happy with the way GW treats their playerbase. I know thats probably controversial.
I think of it this way. People have hobbies. Hobbies cost money. You **choose** your hobby. It should bring you joy and the money you invest into that joy shouldn't be scrutinized to the extent I see a lot of the bitter GW "fans" do.
I have a group at my local game shop I've become friends with. I have taken up mini painting, something I NEVER thought I'd do in my life, and it turns out I love it. I have completely nerded out over the lore and books. I have a fully encompassing hobby now, I love discussing my minis and painting techniques with people who are interested, my wife and I even got into AoS together.
I know this is a lot of nonsense to strangers online, but I get so tired of the constant pitchfork carrying people do against GW. I think over time it's easy to get jaded and hate a faceless company, especially when we're in echo chambers like this comment thread or various subreddits.
I just think if everyone took a step back and assessed if GW creates a product you even want to be a part of. If not, cool, not for you, find some other cool tabletop game to explore. I don't know why people love to hate GW, but it's kinda sad to me. I actually found a company I enjoy standing behind for the quality of the product they create. Are they infallible? Fuck no lol. But I think if we stop acting like GW is controlled by some evil entities and see they're a massive company trying to meet profit margins while creating a fun and globally reaching hobby, maybe we won't judge them so harshly.
Be upset man, but realize other people actually love the hobby and aren't mentally ill. And no, GW doesn't have a gun to my head.
@Nah_090 "I'm a brand new guy that has yet to get into the game, but let me write an essay as to why everything about that game I don't play is fine."
Ok, buddy.
@@Pers0n97 that’s not what I said whatsoever. I said “recently”. Recent is subjective, isn’t it? It’s been about a year. I spent time painting. Have a fully painted army. And I’ve played quite a bit. I’ve done some local shop tournaments which were a blast. And I’ve read about 5 of the AoS books.
Tell me how I haven’t gotten into the game by your standards. All I’m offering is a counterpoint to these echo chambers of weird bitterness and hatred towards a company that makes plastic models. I think you being so reductive to someone in my position speaks volumes. You keep your mindset, I’ll keep mine, and we’ll see who’s happier at the end of the day.
@@Nah_090 MY guy, you are neither as unique, original or smart as you obviously think you are.
I've been in the hobby since 3rd edition and I've seen a lot of a upstart posers that just started and apparently know better than you everything that relate to GW. These posers usually quickly vanish once they realize what we tried to warned them about is actually true.
I legit don't want to waste more time with yet another one of your cringy kind, but I hope for your own sake that you'll grow up one day and realize that people that have been invested into something for decades longer than you may actually have a better perspective than you.
My friends and I play out of the Codexs. We're not trying to keep up with all the constant rule changes.
So my friend group have personally dropped 10th, we now HH, 5th-3rd Ed 40K. If you can get your hands on the rules & rule books for that era of warhammer I’d definitely recommend it. I even know a few other people that play 8th-9th still. In my local area there is really only one group (the hyper competitive group) that devour 10th. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea for sure.
I personally want to try to expand into playing OPR as well to try that out as the only issue with older editions is not having rules for the cool new shiny models.
Yessss, normalize playing the best era of 40k. right around 4th is when i got into it, and it's only gone down from there. I was working with some others on a fan edition based on 3rd-5th, but everyone kinda fell off. I'll have to see about reigniting it when i get back on the 40k bandwagon.
As with everything GW related, 40k peaked around 3.5ed.
The game used to be both simple and deep. You could deeply and MEANINGFULLY customize your army back then.
Stats used to mean something, lore used to mean something.
Since 8th the game devolved into AoS40k were everything pretends to be simplified but is instead extremely complexified and bloated (the best example for me is blast template. You used to just pick up a plastic disk, put it over a squad and see how many people are hit. It was simple, flavorful and impacted how you positionned your units. It got removed and replaced by the blast rule. A convoluted rule that change the number of attacks depending on some arbitrary tresholds thay don't take into account your positioning. Its needlessly bloated and complex and just.... lame)
Free wargear (ie forced maxed gear on every units) and locked unit size has been by far the worst change ever, it both makes the game more complex as you are now forced to roll 5 different weapon profile on every single units, and less deep as you cant customize your stuff like you want.
Its awful. All of it.
We badly need to go back to 3/4th.
In hindsight I think 5th Ed core rules had it right. 3.5 Ed codexs like chaos had the best customisation options
The base size changes drive me nuts!
You're in good company. Probably 90% of 40k fans don't actually play 40k. And can you blame them?
If 11th edition 40k was released and was utterly immaculate, flawless, shinney and perfect in every way. If it were followed by codexes that made it even better, and 100% of the players and the community declared it to be the best it could be and would never go stale... 3 years later we'd get a new edition that by definition would be worse, and 3 years after that etc etc. I've played since 1st, you came in at a golden era, late 7th was a good game but had been broken by detachments and codex creep, 8th was the best it ever had been for the first 3 months until codexes hit and stratagems bred like shit on a petri dish, it's been a steady decline since then as far as bloating rules and fun goes. It saddens me to say it, but after 37 years playing the game, I basically pine for a 3 months period in the summer of 2017, and don't really enjoy what's left of it now or expect 11th edition to fix it. I say all this with a Norn Emissary on my paint table, but we play other games now, many different games, it's significantly more enjoyable.
I made the move to OPR, I'm a very casual player and can't be bothered spending hours to understand the rules then hours for me and my opponent to take turns moving our full army!
Fully agree, I don't see half the people playing anymore. I just paint what I have and won't be buying anything again from them
I need to know where the T-Rex model, in the thumbnail, comes from for my OPR army
@@buttemountain check my older vids theres a few on him and his creation :)
My guy, don't even get me started on 10th. New cannoness can't be built legally, our preachers give melee buffs but only to shooting units, the repressor got sent to the shadow realm, and Celestines got nuked even though they and the repressor don't even use unique kits, worst of all 50 mm base for Hospitaller making them an absolute chore to play because they don't fit in trays anymore and must be transported and moved like an armiger warglave despite being a cheap infantry unit.
Ironically despite all this they are still kind of broken because GW keeps nerfing everything that gets good, but nerfing sisters miracle die would require them to basically remake the entire faction.
@@reaemishi2278 atleast you did get some really nice looking models out of all of it! Sisters armies look so good all painted up
@@average_joe_krootdude5240 Sort of. The basic sisters and jump pack units look awesome (I painted them with the Valerous Heart theme and it is *chef's kiss*), but I think the Repentia are meh. The model detail is fine, but Repentia don't really look as described.
In the books most of them wear something like a hooded cloak or mask to conceal their identity since its illegal to talk to them and they want to protect their old friends by removing temptation. Also their hair isn't as fucked as the models, they just ceremonially cut it with a knife so you no longer resemble a sister, they don't let a blind man with clippers go ape on you. Honestly, they just look like chaos cultists.
So I guess the question is, would you like new tau with better sculpts if they were dressed like eldar?
Most of all, I'm fed up with the competitive players trying to cheat even in casual games at home. I don't even want to meet new 40k playes anymore, because it has become so common. I left Magic the Gathering a while ago because it's toxic af, and now I'm seeing the same happen to Warhammer.
I got into it back in 2005, a year into 4th edition. Back then, a 2k point game was a LOT of minis, and something you worked toward, not got in a single purchase. Back then it was a WAR game focused on WAR not just arbitrary points, like sports. objectives were present, but they narratively meant something to the factions, not just some marker you put down to... be near for no reason other than the game said so. Things died easier. marines had a single wound. Instant Death was a rule. Rerolls (the bane of my existence as someone who has played death guard v necrons) were rare. it was hit>wound>save. Now it feels like hit>reroll 1's>wound>this aura rerolls fails>save>I have feel no pain>ok, one guy died.
3rd edition was from 1998-2004. a good chunk of the books were still present well into the next edition. most everything had been remade from 3rd by the time 5th had finished its run, which was in 2012. there were not a great number of differences between 3rd to 5th. some things were added, some things were streamlined, some better, some worse. same game speaking the same language for 3 editions. I don't get to game much because i'm an introvert who enjoys the hobby more than the game. Now? every time i turn around there's a new edition, right when i got the codex from the last edition that was valid not long ago.
If you don't want to deal with this, and don't play competitively in official tournaments, just get some friends together and choose an edition you like. I'm focused on 4th because it only went down from there. used book sites have the old codexes (if you lost yours) for under $20. rules run similar. you'll likely need to get a scatter die and some templates, but that's easy. A hobby shouldn't be this stressful, so i don't let it.
I am just getting started, 10th edition has been a pretty easy way to get into the game. A few of my long distance friends who play recommend 8th, but based on what I've seen, it does truly look like getting started in 10th and then trying out older editions later is the correct choice. The simplicity helps with doing multiple armys I think. I'm playing with T'au and Tyranid's but also play combat patrol often which removes even more of the complex stuff. These have made the game way more approachable. I've no intentions of entering any tournaments though, purely casual so might be a different angled take, but if you don't play competitive, you can play whatever edition you want
Warsurge brought back the joy of the army collecting for me. I highly recommend giving it a try. The hook is you can use any army from any game.
I only started playing this year. The rules bloat is definitely an issue that causes some exhaustion, more specifically, for me, that they don't update most of the abilities the units themselves have to function how they actually do (removing doublestrat, making 0CP into -1CP, 18" Lone Op Strats, etc.) Even in the app, they updated some things for everyone like redeploys, but not others. I can't comprehend why when it's as easy as a Ctrl+F. I like the rules changing, it makes me feel like everything is more dynamic, but it can be a downer when it's in 5 different PDFs and 2 $60 books.
As for older models going away, going into 10th from what conversation I heard, it seems like a "go hard on experimentation and cut down on older units" attitude, hence why I didn't get any Tetras or Cyclics before the Codex (and tbqh I hated Cyclics anyway).
Kroot being in a bad place rn is also a bummer. They were carried by their strats before 10.5 and now those strats are significantly worse, whereas the points and datasheets didn't change. Rampagers being Bloodcrushers for the same price but worse is harsh, as much as I love them.
Primary goal of a CEO is to maximize shareholder wealth. It's never going to be about the hobby or the enjoyment. Those are just byproducts of profitability.
GW has removed the unique aspects of every faction in order to sell them back to us at a marked up price
Horus Heresy is in a pretty good place right now. I’m experimenting with adapting my 6th ed 40K codexes and using the heresy 2.0 rules.
As someone who hasn’t played 40K since 8th, I’m finding 10th extremely difficult to get into. I can’t even just buy a codex and trust that what I’m reading isn’t completely invalidated. Starting back in 4th ed was way easier than this mess.
There’s nothing stopping you from just playing the older editions of 40K. I still play 4th edition all the time even though it came out before I was born!
There’s also tons of games which are miniatures agnostic so you can use any models in them including your 40k army. I’m playing a game of WARSURGE this week, and that’s a pretty cool game where you use an app that’s a one time purchase of $15, to create a whole custom army with a list of 300 different possible special rules, but it calculates everything for you in the background!
I'm not much a of a gamer myself, I'm kinda more of a miniature converting and painting guy since I suck at playing the tabletop, but I'd like to get better at it someday
Maybe 11th edition 😅
I never got started in 40k. I downloaded One Page Rules and bought two bags of plastic army men from Amazon. 25 bucks. Having a blast.
You explained it perfectly - started at 8th edition and I feel absolutely the same.
The reason they started putting characters in “bodyguard” units in 10th was because their abilities (lethal hits, re roll charges, etc…) can only effect the attached unit. In 8th and 9th, these abilities were an aura, usually 6” that stated “all friendly units within 6 inches of Captain Toughguy get XYZ” leading to everybody building armies centered around character auras, leading to big Death Stars of reroll wounds, reroll hits, -1 to hit, etc…This was unfun, and dictated/hampered lists. You no longer have that now.
yeah! now all you do is stuff the lists with very similar units with very similar abilities in the entire list!
Feels like my HQs aren't as important or cool anymore. There was ways to fix it without sucking the life out of it. Like having the aura only effect a certain number of units like Guardsmen HQs
GW is the reason I don't play GW games
I stopped playing at 2nd version (1991), because the IGYG format is garbage. we went to a far better rules set that uses alternating activations and considered simultaneous game play. (this was decades before OPR)
once GW removed the best aspects from rogue trader, character creation and troop creation rules, then went to the 'you can only use characters and troops GW creates - format. that was the end of 40k for us.
now GW charges $40+ for a named character model that has an actual value of $5-$6, because only one is needed and the army requires it.
this is nothing new. this has been the business model of GW since the early 80s.
while I might buy the occasional model (third party and far under retail), the games are worthless!
Reject corporate streamlining, embrace RPG customization and 3D printing
I agree whole heartedly. They’re dumbing down the game options for armies, hyper restricting models to specific rules, what units a character can and cannot join, what models can be mounted in…. And then add their inability to create a set of rules that will only be changed the next day (RIP Leagues of Votann) which is absolute horseshit. And then only dumping out models for ONE faction while other armies get updates but nothing actually new. How many armies can I have for space marines alone? 4? And that’s not even faction based yet….. I like the older rule sets (I’ve been playing since third edition and was kinda hyped for 8th but 9th and 10th I saw the direction and was disgusted) All it is are blatant money grabs by GW and they have upped their prices like what… 6 times now???? Yeah no. 3d printing and making my own rules is where I’m going now. Anything officially GW can die in a fire. Love the models. Everything else needs to burn
I haven't watched the video yet. I'm going to guess it's because it sucks. It plays like a turn based e-sports, catering to super competitive 13 year olds. The armies don't play lore wise, battle field setup is boring, and there are so many updates you never settle into anything.
Hit so many nails on the head in 20 minutes that this video is probably considered x rated amongst carpenters!
@@chrisbatchelor3759 😂
I am trying to get my Local Warhammer Community to try out stuff other than Age of Sigmar&10th Edition but its really really hard. I'm just....not excited for 10th. But Horus Heresy? Both Editions look awesome. 1st-8th Edition 40k? Interesting. 2nd Edition, 3rd Edition and 7th Edition are especially interesting to me.
Hopefully in 2025 I'll have enough of my Minis Painted up&spent enough time using 30k&Pre-9th Edition Rules to spend time at the LocalGameStore and be able to do Demo Games.
This is supposed to be a complex game, made for young adults. I personally like a rule for every aspect of the battlefield. Artillery has a blast template. A flamer has a tear drop. Troops spread out to avoid them, ect. Don't support GW. They have sold the soul of the game years ago. Just choose your favored edition and maybe somewhere down the line GW will realize that this game isn't about profit margins, much less pleasing everyone.
I completely understand the sentiment of feeling disconnected while playing Warhammer 40k 10th edition, especially if you opt to use a titan walker. It can often feel like you are controlling a giant, clunky box rather than a formidable and powerful creature. The mechanics and gameplay of using a titan can often be lackluster and unexciting, leading to an overall boring experience. While the potential for epic battles and strategic maneuvers may be present, the execution falls short and leaves players feeling underwhelmed. This can be frustrating for fans of the game who were looking forward to controlling these massive war machines. Hopefully, future editions will improve upon the titan walker mechanics and bring back the excitement and thrill of commanding these iconic units on the battlefield. Until then, it seems that playing with a titan may not be as enjoyable as one would hope in Warhammer 40k 10th edition.
@@RedMinotaur808 agree 100% not very fun at all right now the few times I have used them
It seems utterly ridiculous and illogical that a titan, with its massive size and powerful weapons, would be unable to simply step on a small Gretchen or break out of combat to fire normally in a shooting phase. Instead, it is forced to act as a doorknob and shoot at the same unit with a -1 to hit. How does this make any sense? If someone had a gun pointed straight at your chest, there would be no penalty for aiming and firing accurately. Yet, in this scenario, a titan with giant guns is somehow hindered by a -1 to hit. It defies any logical explanation and adds an element of absurdity to the game. It's almost comical to imagine a massive titan struggling to hit a small target due to this arbitrary rule. In the world of Warhammer, where anything is possible, it's hard to understand why such a restriction would be imposed on one of the most powerful units on the battlefield. It just goes to show that even in a world of giants and fantastical creatures, some things still don't make sense. Lol 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
I feel you 💯. Check out Riftway Cataclysm. It's a great alternative to 40k and your old models are fully compatible.
As someone who's been playing since the end of 4th and stopped at 8th, I cannot stand the game or the way most people choose to play it. HH and Kill Team are it for me right now and a lot of fun
I haven't enjoyed playing 40K since 7th edition, the streamlined rules seem so sterile like all the fun has been ripped out of it. I feel its completely aimed at competitive players
the only thing I actually like about 10th is that characters can join units again as they could in every edition from RT to 7th (I am that old)
Each time theres a preview, i find theres less and less im inspired by the models. I started at the start of 8th ed, and wasnt very good as a player, came into my stride in 9th with Emperors children and drukhari, and just dropped off totally in 10th. The rules have been simplified to the extent that i feel the flavour and fun is just not there the way it was
Haven't played 40k since 8th. Early 8th was great with the get you buy books appendices. But during the end power creep started to happen...Was Checking out 10th but then reading the rules and how GW screws with the meta, i was like "No thanks!"
However i mostly play WHFB now Old TOW. Fantasy was there OG game but was always the better game. However my tops are Necromunda, Kill Team and Mordheim. Good luck out there!
Weird that people still debate if 10th is a failed edition.. if a full half of your player base is still playing 9th or reluctantly playing 10th than yes it's a failed edition.
With the loss of 10th I just started playing one-page rules I like it so much better
10th edition has killed wargaming at my LGS. My man has a full 1st company blood angels army and now most of it is legends or removed from the game and he has deathwatch too so he is just fucked. We play One page rules but we don't play every other day like we used too. All mine and his friends have quit. It just bothers me that a game and lore that we all loved has died because of 10th and the lore retcons.
We all have them days ... them weeks ... them times we just feal eahhh 😅 .... i always do hahh ... but since i dont play as much anymore myself ... just inspiration from others in the hobby pike urself give me the will power to just do somthen be it big or small for the hobby i love .... its hard to play these days ... wish we could go back to the fun times .. 15years ago ahaha 😅
10th is so poorly done, who ever thought giving your players less options and customization was a good idea needs firing. And the fact they bring codex's out periodically rather than having it all flushed out at the start of a new edition release is infuriating! Iv had it before were I got a codex and within a few months it's invalid.
Star Wars legion imo has the best wargaming rules I’ve played so far
10ed blows unless you play only competitively, in which case it's probably awesome. Everything is so evened-out and normalized that they may as well just make every dice roll a 4+
I played from 3rd to early 6th edition, and got out when things started getting really bad in 6th. I got back into the game right before 9th came out and man the difference in how GW ran things was night and day compared to the earlier years. It felt like they were trying to strangle every last cent out of their customer base; the fact that i had to re-base all my Dark Angels and Word Bearers in order to use them in an official tournament was extremely frustrating, so I ended up just not doing that.
Thanks for this one?
Have they drained The fun and flavour Out of 40k!
@@dariostabletopminatures hopefully just a phase and more fun in the future!
@@average_joe_krootdude5240 Hopefully. I had a fun time in the Summer playing my Deathwatch. Bought Minis to expand them....then I lost my GUSTO.
Bolt ACtion gets my juices flowing at the moment.
I agree bro!!
GW is just Wizards of the other coast
For me the game just feels a lot less flavorful, no more cool relics, no more specific army rules like chapters or legions, just generic detachments with generic enhancements. Merging of weapon profiles to be generic within a squad, free wargear making it just take the best one instead of a tactical decision. And the data sheet rules just seem kinda bland but also hard to keep track of when there are sooo many units on the table. Also missions and specific rules for terrain and movement or random bs being super technical and wordy. I recently got into 30k, which I thought would be a lot harder, but after playing it I found it much more intuitive and flavorful, and the gameplay was very engaging, especially with reactions and stuff, it all just feels good, if not a little complex at times, as opposed to 40K where it just kinda feels meh to me idk. TLDR: 40K feels bland, try 30k it’s surprisingly fun.
I don't mean to subtract from the seriousness of the video, but, this is the first time I've seen your face and I like your beard
thanks bro 😂
Yes. Precisely right. I started on 5th. Took a long break playing other games. Got sick of GW. I came back in 10th, with a bunch of brand new armies. I have the most positive vibes possible, but still: enormously disappointed with new 40K. Games take too long, too technical, too many rules. Very little engagement with boring terrain, with the actual models, with the lore, the fluff on the table.
Game is like deck building. It just weird. Not don’t feel like a war game.
Yeah after a year of 10e GW just lost me. 10e isn't very good and GW's crazy schedule is oppressive. My friends and I are only playing now using our own house rules versions of older editions.
Try playing Crusade (great for custome build and kitbashing), or try building a lore reason to play games. Try kill team its another great way to find the fun again.. 40k burn out is real.
@@Jay_Maul might have to get back into killteam its where j started warhammer
I think there's two major problems at fault:
1. Models in the game are too cheap for points. Every army including space marines now has units that are under 100 points, this leads to bigger, longer, worse games. Because every army cost less points you have to simply do way more bookkeeping, more rolling dice, turns are longer. It's gotten so bad GW are getting annoyed at the use of chess clocks in tournament play, despite them being necessary to actually play tournaments. If you want to see something interesting, go look at what 2000 points got you in like 3rd edition. There are photos out there.
2. Terrible internal balance. Without the use of wargear points to keep things in check, loadouts are "solved". Many units are bad and feel bad to use, so they don't get played. Many factions have like 1 or 2 actually viable lists, even in a faction like marines with 200 choices. There's less theory to craft, ergo there's less fun to be had, this is great for competitive, but it kills the spirit of the game that it's had until about 8th.
Gonna reply to myself to limit the essay.
I feel you on the world eaters thing, like you guys don't even have BIKES. Half of your models are named characters it's insane.
Tuff love time!
If you're willingly bending over to let bubba have his way with you don't complain that your ass hurts!
What to do about it?
First talk to your mates and agree on a edition that you all like and play that one.
Or try a hobby that is very similar to the GW hobby but is made by people who love the game it's called Wargaming!
Try "one page rules" you don't need to buy new figures you just need to download a free set of rules from their website plus an army list or two.
Or one of the thousands of sci-fi wargames out there many of which are wargames agnostic.
40k became a normies game and anything that becomes mainstream starts getting milked to death and loses its soul. Now that the normies are playing it, they will buy everything that GW pushes out without question. They will buy the rules no matter how much they suck and how often they get updated. They will accept the new lore as it gets watered down to appeal to mass audiences.
But what normies don't know is that there's other war games out there and that you can play older editions a 40K. This husband the best option for my group and we can vote to agree to introduce new and custom rules as we see fit. We've had a lot of fun with OPR and playing it has reminded me of the old days in the 90's when the 40K community was more closely knitted because we were all we had
Its sterile. Ive tried getting back into 40k, but every time I try im taken aback at how flat it all feels.
The game is more competitvely oriented now, so mirrored deployment zones, more incentive to optimise and hard right and wrong options.
I had been playing weekly until 10.5 hit. Too many tiny changes to keep track of. It broke me. Shifted over to casually playing AoS 4.0, badly.
Tempted to try another game myself i hear killteam is also fun!
@@average_joe_krootdude5240Might I recommend Blood Bowl? Honestly, the most fun I've had on tabletop since I got into the hobby
Warhammer is becoming more casual and boring. but there are other wargames, GW is not the only company that makes games with miniatures
age of sigmar a better game with better models
@@darealwhosane aos models are my go to for kitbashes 100% so good
GW could produce a good game but they do not want. It's not in they're best interest to do so. It's just about money.
40k players are generally anti social weirdos, sometimes you get lucky and meet someone cool but usually not
My experience has been the opposite I have met some neckbeards but most have been really genuine people. I live in Glasgow and wildcats and west coast gaming have awesome members both have a great community!
@@martind5565 probably different culture in the states, the people I meet at events are generally either aggressive, condescending, or painfully shy.
Yep, I play old editions or OPR. Tired of GW bad faith product design.
You dont play Warhammer 40k because it is time to play Horus Heresy!
@@myrar8708 but which legion to choose?? 🤔
Play Legions Imperialis instead.
What a waste of time, but if you needed to vent, kudos to you.
shave
That's a beautiful beard, I'm super jealous.....😅😅😅😅