Flanker/Fulcrum/Mirage: Optimal Fox-1 BVR Combat Technique PART 1 | DCS WORLD
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#GRTutorial #DCSTutorial #Mirage #2000C #DCSWorld - เกม
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Let me add something and correct you a bit:) 1. What you also forgot to mention is these 3 bold lines on the range indicator of the HUD (left side). These mean the minimum missile launch distance for a selected missile.The middle one is the optimal launch distance, considering that the target will maneuver and missile will spend some of it's energy to compensate these maneuvers. And finally the upper one is the maximum launch distance, providing that the target will not perform any maneuvers and will continue flying the same speed and course. 2. What you called a "Radar cone" at the radar screen is actually your missile range cone, the radar detection range and radar azimuth is indicated with the curve that you can see in the upper part of the radar screen. 3. Also RL stands for "Radio Locator" and ATK stands for "Attack".
Copy good information.
@@grimreapers the SU 27/33 automatically uses the full potential of the Radar (left and Right) since it automatically goes from TWS into full lock when comming into Missile firing range.
The Mirage does the same from my Knowledge when you intend to launch a Missile
Atakuje!!!
6:19 EORL means *both* the EO (electro-optical) and Radar are active and tracking the target. Not just EO. The Fox 1 would lose tracking and go dumb if the radar wasn't illuminating the target at that time.
You also forgot to mention the target heading indicator arrow in your earlier HUD rundown. The one coming out of the bottom of the range scale. Helpful one.
Thanks for the vid! Good stuff.
Thanks!
You didn't even know what EORL means? How can you do a tutorial and not know the HUD symbology?
I'm starting to understand why the Grim Reapers have such a reputation.
@@grimreapers Hey there. I'm a new player. This tutorial was very helpful to me :) Don't mind the "skillful" haters, they are one of the reasons this game is hard to get into.
Grim,
I think you can remember in this way:
R-27ER (Extended Radar)
R-27ET (Extended Thermal)
R-27R (Radar)
R-27T (Thermal)
ER means "Extended Range" in military industry but I use this way to memorize name of Russian missiles.
thx
yep i do exactly the same xD
Thanks Capt. Much info that my brain can process but this was brilliant detail..Props!
F-15 was designed around the Sparrows... AIM120 wasn’t a thing until the early 90’s, and until then the only US aircraft with active missiles was the Tomcat....
I knew there were gonna be many mistakes in this vid ugh. I was hoping I’d learn.
@@BARelement This video is just one mistake after the next 🙀.
Every GR tutorial is full of mistakes, missing information or just wasting time.
Interesting stuff, thanks for another great video. I haven't tried air to air combat as I have the A10C and KA-50. I have my eyes on the Hornet though and am looking forward to its contrasting characteristics and combat roles.
4:55 the ATK along with the BVR stands for attack beyond visual range radar
Nice job very informative
0:22 It might be possible to use HARMs and SHRIKEs against Air Targets, but by definition they are Air to Ground Missiles :)
show me some of that Mirage love baby
when you got EORL baisicly the infrared seeker got lock on the target, at that point you eather can turn off radar, and stay only on EO or continue lock with both radar and EO (electro optical), you can shot fox 1 on EO only it will switch automatically on EORL
You have slid right by the essential point 3 separate times: How do you hold the lock in the middle of extreme evasive maneuvers? That is what everyone needs to know, and what you need to ask Fortinero to **show** you while you're flying at him with Sparrow 3's only in your F-15. What also seems critical is that, unlike the AI F-15, Fortinero cranked early before any missiles were in the air and when the range was long.
The AI clearly lolligagged about until "within range" to start doing this, and that is how he was trapped into the bad evasive mistakes against the Fox 1. What is important about this is that the AI seems only reactive and not proactive. Given any situation it will continue to do whatever it is doing until something happens. This seems to me to be the most likely explanation of why it waited so long to lock Fortinero: the AI's don't initiate combat before their missiles are in probable kill range, which, against a proactive pilot with a clear plan of attack, is far too late. This is a similar issue when both the AI Flanker and Eagle waited so long to start pumping up their speed. They were just hanging around not intending to attack anything in particular until something showed up and got close enough.
With the Flanker AI the first missile out was the long range IR because it "couldn't" be seen. Dollars to doughnuts the AI is not capable of spotting a smoke trail so if the roles were reversed it would be absolutely blind. This is important because it is a default to the "cheap kill" and I suspect all the AI's make the cheap kill their first choice when starting combat. As you pointed out, Fortinero fired his first Fox 1 when the odds were likely against it outmaneuvering plane evasion. The point of it was to undercut the speed, altitude, and aspect of the AI Flanker for better advantage later in the dogfight, which it did.
A couple of curious things Fortinero did can be explained with a little thought. As you have pointed out in other videos, he has a habit of following a Fox 1 with a Fox 2. I suspect his shift to the plane's IR seeker against the other Flanker may be a routine prep for this little trick. Further, his habit of breaking right is probably because an extreme right shift of the stick is easier to do because your body isn't in the way of your right arm. If this is a fairly automatic habit on Fortinero's part, I'd file that away. There can be only a limited number of all possible evasive maneuvers that can easily be done from a 40deg right crank, and a consistent habit of doing that is telegraphing at least what an enemy is not likely to do next from their crank and maybe even what he is likely to do next if he starts to evade.
As far as a matter of solo training with Fox 1, it seems to me that an obvious approach would be dumbing down an AI enough so that it would keep charging straight at you no matter what you did, and then to practice as many evasive maneuvers as possible trying to keep that fixed point within the radar cone. Once you could reliably hold lock on a fixed center point, then you could move on to more complex enemy behavior.
Finally, you have mentioned in passing several times "optimum" distances for various missiles, 2 miles for Sidewinders, 10 miles for AMRAMS and so on. I think an in depth examination of this idea would be something very nice to do, maybe even with a prepared spreadsheet of the distances and missiles. Once more, thanks again for doing these tutorials and I hope to see more.
Roger, Forteniro enlighten us please
Keep the questions coming guys and I'll address them in a follow-up vid
Fortinero Thank you for your response. ALL of you are wonderful to make these videos. As I've said elsewhere, I'm too old and shaky to actually play, even if I could afford the paraphernalia. But with you young guys as surrogates, it's almost as much fun as if I could actually do it myself. Best to you.
That was some comment - BRAVO. I really agree.And thank you very much for all the fine answers below.Karmakshanti Vyapini you are never too old to learn. I am 72 and I will try to join the Reapers (some time) - I will however stick to my trusted A10C on which I have MANY hours.
It's far more simple than all that. It's Russian standard ranged missile doctrine to use multiple seeker heads simultaneously to maximize the odds of a hit.
Hence Switching from radar to IR. And it might also explain to you why so many russian missiles use interchangeable seeker heads unlike the US that leans all on one seeker type.
Truth 1 = more missiles fired increases odds to kill more than firing missiles with better hit chance
Truth 2 = varying seeker types in missiles fired further maximizes odds of getting a kill. If all the missiles are using one seeker type and one missile is evaded, it's highly likely the others will be evaded.
Source and further explanation below.
Simply put, ==The mathematics of multiple round missile engagements are unambiguous - the size of a missile salvo launched is a stronger driver of success than the actual kill probability of the individual missiles. If the missiles are wholly identical by type, then the following curves may be optimistic, insofar as a factor degrading the kill probability of one missile is apt to have a similar effect on its siblings in a salvo. However, where the missiles differ by seeker type and guidance control laws, then the assumption of statistically independent missile shots is very much stronger===
====A question often asked is why are Sukhoi Flanker variants equipped to carry between eight and twelve BVR missiles? The answer is a simple one - so they can fire more than one three or four round BVR missile salvo during the opening phases of an engagement. In this fashion the aircraft being targeted has a difficult problem as it must jam, decoy and/or outmanoeuvre three or four tightly spaced inbound missiles. Even if we assume a mediocre per round kill probability of 30 percent, a four round salvo still exceeds a total kill probability of 75 percent===
Personally I operate according to these Russian standards at all times. The Su-33 is my primary fighting platform.
Also it is highly incorrect to assume that Fox 3 is where the most success will be found. In recent history the vast majority of all BvR kills have come from sparrows. Semi active/passive radar seeking missiles are far better suited to ECCM measures/defeating ECM measures
Hi, could you please do a series of videos showing the advantages of the mirage 2000 against the other aircraft like su27, f16, mig29 etc.
Very cool video. Now I Understand A2A fight much more. One question: what are the advantages of Fox 1 missiles compared to fox 3 ones?
hmmm really the only advantage is that you can cancel the fox 1 missile if something goes wrong. Fox 3 can't be cancelled. Fox 3 is the future for all bvr missiles.
Just letting you know that you have ground speed enabled and that's why it seems he has stalled, when he is in fact flying at ~400 knots. Ground speed is dependent on flight angle so if the aircraft is traveling vertical it will say that the speed is zero. You can change to true air speed or what you prefer in the settings. Nice video anyway :)
Roger that noted
well, as long as we're making comparisons to real life, hoarding altitude for a missile launch make not help due to physics *in game* but in reality they do help. as far as the radar types everything in this video has what you call a "dish type," the difference is the Flanker and Mig-29 and earlier fighters are designed under a ground-controlled intercept perspective and don't have the ability to automatically scan their entire 120 degree frontal cone, unlike the western fighters. basically they are designed to search for a smaller slice of the sky in spite of similar gimbal limits on the radar
Any idea why I don't have a number for my radar elevation in BVR mode? I have the line and can move it up and down, but I have no way of knowing what altitude it's set to.
Weird, unsure but it doesn't really matter, with the flanker I don't lookat the number anyway, I just do it by feel.
Why does he keep doing barrel rolls? Does he actually think the missile will get confused and go somewhere else?
Just to let you know on the tacview the labels are showing Above Ground Speed not True Air Speed. 16:00 shows it clearly on the telemetry.
Copy, what is the diff please?
Above ground speed, is only the velocity of the aircraft in the two dimensional plane above the ground, relative to the ground. Useful for navigation purposes. You can tell in the tacview whenever an aircraft is diving or climbing their Above Ground Speed is of course much less than their True Air Speed. That is because most of their velocity is out of the plane relative to the ground.
Roger that. So does that mean that GS and TS are the same or nearly the same when the flying at sea level?
No they are only the same when flying level flight, and there is no wind. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_speed
Can somebody tell me why can't I load the R-77 Adder on the Flanker in DCS when I could do it back when Flanker 2.0 was out. It is an ACTIVE radar system. Like why would they remove that? Also, why can I only carry 2 R-27ET 70 km IR missiles? What's with this nerfing of the Su-27?
Su-27 does not take R-77, does not have correct pylons.
@@grimreapers It still bears the question why the sovjets deprived their *air superiority fighter* of a fire and forget missile. All that manoeuvrability wasted because you have to keep your target in a narrow radar cone.
Im just getting into flying again and this seems to be a *huge* disadvantage against the american fighters. I'm playing the Mozdok campaign atm and it's hilariously frustrating to have to go defensive over and over again and never being able to get your nose on target. Not to mention to illuminate the target for a few seconds to keep your own missiles in the air.
Just checked wiki, some successors (Flanker-B/C & Su-35S) apparently got the necessary rails and can use the R-77. But not the Su-33. This puzzles me... retrofitting the platform shouldn't be a big deal, should it?
Ya've got your DCS in Spanish? That's cool!
Totally Cool...wow..excellent job...thank you..
Mantap 👍👍👍
First time playing the su27 in dcs. How much could i crank while still having the lock ln? How could i deal with fox 3 missiles? Seems like i am always got killed by aim120b every single time in the instant action of su27.
120 are easy to dodge the further away they are in my experience. Crank at the beginning so it after it fires you’re luring the enemy into a trap. That’s why they are called flankers
How did you change your Hud Colour and Display?
HUD color Rctrl + H, HUD filter is RShift + H
Can I change my HUD language to English in the stable version?
yup I got a vid on it somewhere.
@@grimreapers Thanks, I'll check it out!
Is Fortinero like the Cipher of the Grim Reapers?
Pretty much
favorite AC game?
Hi ! Just wondering how you instantaneously zoom on your hud ? Is it a special key binding or something else ?
yup its the Zoom command in the Axis section of Adjust Controls
@@grimreapers Thanks ! That will be very helpful !
@@grimreapers think he was looking for snap view 5 Cap
ATK probably stands for "attack".
Lowrider Smith
Actually it’s “attackski!” 😂
Translated to “Russian” of course!
Archer.... what you call the "mothership" is properly called the "archer"
you missed AIM-54 Phoenix as Fox 3 but that's ok
Back then there was no aircraft available to carry Phoenix
Sorry for my comment spam. Anyway we could ever hear some tips from Forteniro. No offence to any of the reapers but Fort seems to be kinnnnnddaaaaa a fucking monster and Id love to hear what he thinks.
Yuup i'm on it
I love your tutorial videos. But there's so much wrong information in this video.
Why gaining height is not as good?
The air density decreases as you gain height. The missile chasing a target won't have to deal with as much drag and won't lose the energy as quick.
It slows you down and makes the missile's flight easier via lowering of air density. If you dive you gain speed and make the missile have to power through thicker air.
Thanks
„im not a fox 1 player“ lol
Cap is not manly enough for Fox 1
I seem to be, though
First!
Never use US tactics in a Flanker ever! You never should Crank/Notch but dodge Missiles instead!!
the music is pretty distracting
radars dont work like that :D
half the time it's not using radar, it's using IRST. Sort of like Ladar, it uses a beam of IR light to detect radar distant objects based on heat.
@@fergrim420 not er
Wow, calling yourself a "fox 3 fighter" is the nicest way of calling yourself a path of least resistance, win at all costs, no surprises here, easy mode please - nub muffin that I've heard anyone use.
Roger I'm a fox-3 fighter
Don't be so hard on yourself, you might be able to become a fine Fox 1 fighter with all the practice you'll get from the ineffectiveness of using multiple identical seekers consecutively.
Fox 3 is better
Please don't snort your snot and then fucking swallow it and then cough and they continue talkin nonchalant like.... that's fucking disgusting
sorry!
Lol vs someone with a brain this would ended in 100% fortinero dead
The title of this vid is bollocks, this is nowhere near optimal it is how a noob would fox 1, the attack profile is awful.
We are sure it is optimal
Grim Reapers, optimal would be from really high over mach 1.3 and crank and dive to the ground. If this was employed against your man he would have been in a parachute before he knew what was happening.
SpitFired skool
That is optimal "situation",not "technique".You can't always be really high and supersonic when engaging enemy,it requires luck.
However,technique most of the time doesn't require luck.
When it worked then it's, if at all, called newbie, not noob, you noob! As if you're an expert. How many attacks have you flown in real life to judge what an attack profile is? Armchair hero pilot, I'm sure. How can I put this to you delicately... You know squat! You're a moron. Shut up! You know less than squat! You and squat could go to the movies and squat could wear an _'I'm With Stupid!'_ t-shirt!
Edit: +SpitFired skool Have just read your second comment, makes things even worse. You clearly don't know shit about flying fighter jets, especially about flying at supersonic speed.