Real GCI Instructor demonstrates Intercept Geometry | DCS WORLD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- In this DCS World video, I demonstrate how to conduct an intercept of a target using basic intercept geometry. I have been a GCI instructor for close to 17 years and intercepting aircraft has been my job for years. Turns it out transfers straight to DCS.
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brilliant! this is what i wanted to know and no tutorial ever in a flight sim will teach you this.
i pretty much guess what is the reason that we don't see that many neither often tutorials covering this. The reason is simple: it is sensitive. Software devs will teach you how to use weapon systems and what button to press, but nothing about real TACTICAL EMPLOYEMENT. It is where we reach a certain line as a flight simmer. Combat tactics is a very much sensitive matter, each airfrorce use their own and they are highly classified. if you want to learn those you are supposed to join a real airforce of your respective country and do a career as a pilot etc.
There are certain things I won’t cover in a video but there are some things that are out there open source which I can talk about.
@@TacticalPascale that is understandable and it pretty much confirms what i have said, and thank you again for your work.
@@Ozieneercs I feel like the limitation here is where the tactics involved are playing into the abilities of a classified weapon system or plane with classified specs and capabilities. But the rest of dogfighting and BVR, most of that is stuff you can work out on your own with simple thought exercises or pen & paper or video games.
A good example is infantry tactics. You'd think they're sensitive but that fact of the matter is that Joe Schmoe and his buddies can work out a great deal of them for themselves by simply reading some books on the matter and then practicing with some paintball guns in a patch of field and forest somewhere. Is it gonna be spec ops level of training? Of course not. But would they be able to master the basics of base of fire, flanking, and assault, as well as room clearing and urban combat. Hell, lots of that stuff is taught privately for a lot of money. So it's less that it's classified in a lot of cases and more that it's locked behind paywall haha
Beyond all that, there's not a lot of reasons for civilians to know deep air combat tactics LOL except for us flying game nerds
Wow. GCI instructor teaching GCI to sim pilots. It doesn't get any better than that. Really well explained, Thank you from Australia.
Fellow former GCI controller here as well! Well done! I never thought I'd see close control ever again, haha!
This will be handy heading for the tanker, I always seem to either overshoot or wind up spending a week chasing it down.
I'm from another sim, but i assume DCS has TWS mode. Find the tanker on the radar with TWS or even CRM and it'll show you the heading. Some sims even direct you in with vectors.
You can use data links, but following the tanker around the towline is folly, we can use basic figures to intercept using the least amount of time. Useful when going to/from CAP or CAS taskings.
TACAN is your best bet for this, tune to the right freq. and you can watch the marker tick left or right along your HSI/heading tape/whatever and adjust your heading until it stops. If the marker is moving left/anticlockwise, turn left, putting the marker on your right until it stops, and vice versa. When it stops it means that it's not moving relative to you, other than range, meaning you're on a perfect intercept course.
I had my doubts for a bit, but that roll in... Can't argue with that. I gotta learn this now.
It’s how I’ve intercepted Bears with Typhoons and stuck A-10s behind tankers
Nice video. Reminds me of doing all of this on the Hawk at Chiv and struggling to remember angles off with range. On the F3, we drove for a 180 by 5 for a 1nm rollout in the stern ( only for a non-threatening target VID of course). Used TCA for years then changed to aspect and the world changed again
I’m glad it switched from 90s and 180s. Although my students still look at me wildly if during a demo I go onto the reciprocal at 40 if I have a 10’ NASP
That was really interesting. That's the kind of knowledge you simply can't get anywhere else. Thanks you
From an ex RAAF GCI, nice explanation and keeping it fairly simple, although it not always.
Regards
Well, most fighter jets are Digital Bullseye with better AI RADAR & BVR capable.
Fabulous lesson, I have a question or two but will watch again before doing so.
And today at worlds most lethal geometry lesson:
Brilliant video.
Thank you.
Fellow GCI here! Can't believe I've come across this. haha. AWACS is leaving off the aspect because us ground guys do it better. Cheers!
Yes we do 😁
Thank you for taking the time to make this interesting and informative tutorial video for us.
The way you just smoooooothly glide into position alongside the Backfire is just as impressive as the tactical geometry! :) Guessing that's a lot of practice managing closure.
Nope, just following the geometry
@@TacticalPascale Wow, I need more practice, then! :) These videos are SUPER helpful as a MiG-21 guy, given how dependent we are on GCI. Thank you for uploading them. :)
Was NOT expecting your F-5 to be wearing 87 FTS livery!
Thanks a lot. Very clear and easy to follow. Please make more videos like this.
This kind of videos are golf. Thanks for your time!
Thx for the tutorial I will try this out once amazon has delivered my F16!
Thank you so much. Please more videos about GCI 🙏🙏🙏
And drawing up and working with the “AMPI’s and CPU-73A/P attack computer was always fun ....I still have mine !!!!
Regards
Very useful! DCS sets up a lot of intercept missions which put players head on to the target, which is fine for BFM type training, but does leave one with an impressions that pilots are routinely flying head on at each for intercept purposes until the merge, which of course is a recipe for midair collisions. In reality there's a lot more geometric groundwork being done to keep separation and setup for a tactically advantageous intercept.
A great tutorial. I'll have to watch it many times, but just what I was looking for and really well presented, thanks! I subscribed.
Do you have any videos on using the HSI?
Nice work bud. Simple and easy enough even us pilots can figure it out 😎
Been practicing with my sqadron, very cool, thanks mate!
Nice to hear. More soon.
Great stuff and nicely explained. Flown a number of those in real life, both as a target and the interceptor. The parameter that historically was the hardest for the GCI to measure was the target altitude, still the case?
Depending on the radar we use. Some sites are more accurate with height finding than others.
Brillant video! Could you add tacview for the next time?
O.k. thats so interesting. Remember to use all these info when observing that UFO on your radar screen.
Funny you should say that.
What mount do you use for your stick? Saw you had a warthog mounted in an old video and I need to get one.
Monstertech
you sir deserve my sub, liking your content.
Dam - that was so awesome and so useful! Thank you 💪
subscribed instantly. This was really helpful
Thanks!
Tactical Pascale I have it all sorted except the DATUM = 311. Why was the 1 added?
It’s just the bearing that the awacs called out
@@TacticalPascale Thanks. I'll give it a whirl.
Awesome! I expect that once I get the hang of this I'll be slightly more effective on the GS server :)
Marvellous! Thank you for the video!
aviation lingo is hilarious
"BRUH..."
"Request bogey dope"
AWACS use either magnetic or true headings so there will be some deviation so do you know what they use?
4:46 There is never need to round a bearing to find its reciprocal. The last digit stays the same whether you add or substract 180°. The same goes if you add or substract a separation of 20° or any multiple of 10.
I know this, but for headings it is easier to work to the closest 10’. I don’t have to fly 307’ for example.
Is there any reason why you go back to flying parallel to your target rather than straight towards intercept and directly behind him?
Yes, to give myself room to turn (about 7nm parallel), otherwise I’d be waaaaay off to the tagest left.
It also allows for a fox 2 shot, if hostile, as I roll in behind
Really interesting and useful, what happens if the bandit turns onto you though. They rarely just fly on unawares?
You correct your heading to adjust for its manoeuvre and start again with RDIF
@@TacticalPascale I assume that you have to do this in your head as you go? Practice makes perfect I suspect!!
Yes, TH - reciprocal, +/-20 Ideal, final.
Hand on heart, this was the first time I used actual intercept techniques in DCS. Surprised me.
@@TacticalPascale Excellent I'll give it a go!
Great stuff as always!
Thanks
Thanks for this video. Very interesting. Shame that AWACS don't give the cap heading of the bogey. Because the part of research it can be too long.
Yup, I’ve mentioned it to ED several times, but alas, it’s not been implemented.
Are you using a cockpit mod? Those gauges look nice and shiny
Yes the HD cockpit mod
Would BRAA be possible using a script added to the mission that would be able to access this information and read it back?
I don’t know, but I hope ED have an easy fix for such a vital piece of information
on some MP servers the AWACS gives callouts like hot cold and flanking
Yes, great for bullseye, useless for close control
Hi, Fellow GCI.
In an actual airforce, would the pilot be doing this geometry and adjusting their course or would the gci be feeding them instructions?
Nope, the GCI would be telling him left, right, up and down until the pilot got tally or called Judy.
Is the process the same when we see jets intercepting civilian planes?
Are you navigating the plane with a joystick ?
Yes
After next Open Beta update, you should try that with M-2000C and TAF (GCI up link).
You will love it 😉
I will. I’m learning the M2k now
@@TacticalPascale Razbam did a fantastic job with the overhaul of the module. It went from OK to "study level".
I’ll defo be delving into it
How is this dealt with if bandit is actively pursuing and thus will turn their aircraft to follow you? Would you still use this or try something different?
You would adjust your headings as you get the bandits new ones passed to you.
@@TacticalPascale Wouldn't that ultimately leave him behind your 3-9 line if he's pointing right at you? I mean, sure, he'll be 20 degrees off from you but you're ultimately turning out and away from him. I mean, i get that this is kinda to look like you're not aggressive on him and to keep yourself out of a 50-50 (which is what would happen if you flew the BRA the whole way). On one hand, i don't want to fly straight at an opponent for a 50-50, but on the other i feel like you're handing him 20 degrees, which is fine if he's flying a TU-22, but what if this ended up a 4-ship of Mig-29s or something a little more maneuverable and threatening?
Or is this primarily a strategy outside of wartime?
At every stage of the intercept, with a more capable platform, you are within weapons parameters. At no point is the target outside of radar coverage. If they are declared hostile as you approach then you can shoot immediately.
I have been in a Hawk and intercepted by an F3. We didn’t know it was there until it appeared 50ft from the left wing.
@@TacticalPascale Ah, ok, so then this is specifically about intercepting for ID, escorting out of friendly airspace, and other things where you're not necessarily planning on firing right away. Judging from the title of the video, i (and i think a few others) made the fault assumption that this is specifically andvanced BFM specifically to get behind someone for some AIM-9Ps or archers.
Nope; any intercept on a bogey or bandit would be done this way. Hostile gets an AMRAAM from many miles away. Bogey / bandit, we have to establish hostile intent before we give them the good news.
question for you Mr GCI: in DCS the controller likes to give you bra with the word "for" in it. "BRA 090 for 45 at 18 thousand, hot." however "for" sounds the same as "four" which could lead to confusion. is there a better word to put between the bearing and the range?
No, irl you don’t have a word in there. 0-9-0, forty five,
Is that a Laughlin skin on the F-5?
It is indeed
My brain is missing the initial Datum calculation. Why wouldn't that be the same as the Reciprocal of the Target Heading?
Datum is the bearing from fighter to target, the difference between that and there target reciprocal is the nose aspect. We want a 20nasp.
@@TacticalPascale I think I got it once I figured out which numbers were BRAA and which were ownship heading. I always end up 11nm abeam before the final turn, but at least I'm mostly there.
Practice makes perfect. It looks easier in the video simply because of my experience. The more practice you get the more comfortable it becomes
Brilliant
2:35 very clever.
Why you didn’t use the B/E to get advantage to the adversary??
Close control is used for
QRA and tanker joins etc. The F-5 isn’t great with bullseye.
@@TacticalPascale F5 driver here, you're tellin me!
Seems like a huge oversight on ED’s part to not have AWAC include the target’s heading (aspect). Surely they are aware that BRAA has 2 A’s and their AWAC only gives the first A, so I wonder why ED hasn’t implemented a proper BRAA call for AWACS.
Seems strange to me too. However, not a great deal of people know how it’s done properly, they may have not had the full picture 😁 Hopefully it will get an overhaul.
Am I missing something? 3:21, one of the first callouts of the video, is a BRAA call, ended with target aspect. Still not precise heading, but aspect is there, DCS AI GCI calls out BRAA for contacts
@biaskolka it doesn’t give the heading
@@TacticalPascale Yes. Not the heading, but the aspect, so what BRAA is supposed to call: bearing, range, altitude, aspect.
I allways freak out when I see someone flying directly into trail - 30m behind exhaust nozzles of two huge Jet engines. You shall loose your wings by then. Turn on wake turbulence
Looks cool for movies, but so does flying through flaming balls of planes exploding in mid air.
Love the content all I can say MORE MORE MORE!
15:20 - Not where you want to be with the tail gun in mind ^^
War: all about who shoots first. Wingman sees me shot down, reports it, he shoots them down. War begins, we’re the good guys because we shot second
Black dog black dog, magic 84, new contact bra 320 36, hostile.
Kinda like a procedure turn on an instrument approach.
Drum rolls!
forgive the rather uneducated question, I assume trying to work this is not needed in 4th and 5th gen fighters as the radars can tell you that information? Could be completely wrong, great explanation btw.
When we use them for QRA we often have their radars off so as to not alert the Russian “navigation” flights. It works well for joining tankers too.
@@TacticalPascale Thank you, much appreciated.
Topper eh mate?
Topper.
Could someone "reciprocal" please?
Reverse of, opposite on a compass.
360 - 180 / 090 - 270 for example
Woohoo!!
Nice one
If the bandit is always turning hot to you, this technique surely doesn't work? you'll always be merging head on. Does this technique only work for fat dumb and happy bandits?
It’s a “basic” intercept technique. Used for targets that are unaware, hence the lack of your own radar used.
If the target is manoeuvring towards you then your tactics need to change. I’ll cover more advanced techniques in a later video.
@@TacticalPascale :3
@@TacticalPascale I always imagined there was a magic procedure to maneuver around a radar cone eg +-30 45nm to have a chance eg F5 vs F4
I am so confused.
Roger "balls!" 😁
How did you arrive at the datum of 311 rather than 310? Why was it offset by only four degrees (one degree from the rounded-up reciprocal)? Why not three or five degrees? I watched that part of the video a few times but didn't pick up on why that specific amount was chosen.
Back in 1986 I was the SENSO in an S-3A mission (flying from Carl Vinson) that flew as a fictional bogie north to south over Oman, the most desolate terrain I've ever seen. It was interesting - the pilots were British (maybe the controller too, I can't remember), flying Jaguars. We were "forced down" to a touch-and-go at Masirah.
It was just the bearing that the awacs gave, it helped me choose if I was going left or right of the datum.
That sounds like a cool mission to have been part of, I used to live on a Jaguar airbase many moons ago.
@@TacticalPascale Got it, thanks! I'm going to try a GCI mission right now...