The Hyperspace Ram COULD'VE made sense...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Although I don't really mind the Last Jedi's hyperspace ram, there's no doubt that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. We'll cover what I think could've been a BETTER option on today's Star Wars lore video!
![[กูเพิ่งซื้อมึงปิดหนี] 20 นาที ผมรีวิวเกมที่แย่ที่สุดในโลก CONCORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XhC-3q3Ii7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I wonder if the writers of the last Jedi ever thought one scene would generate so much lore and debate.
I think the writers thought it would look cool, and ever since have tried to explain it.
I don't think they even thought anything when writing the movie other than, lightsabers and blasters and spaceships and hey let's one up that ramming scene from rogue one, it'll look pretty
@@Mx12b one-upping previous movies is a lot of Disney writing. Obi-Wan Kenobi writer admitted he wanted to one up Vader scene in Rogue One and that's why he had Vader snapping necks of kids.
@@user-yq9im9dk9z one kid but yeah ... That scene was actually pretty good honestly. Felt pretty inline with previous and current expanded Vader, unlike all the writing from the sequel movies, mostly the last two .....
You seem to imply they could think. Which by itself is an insult to sapience.
Find it funny how the First Order is super advanced, yet don't use one of the best ships against the rebels aka the interdictor. All I'm saying is that this Ram could have been easily prevented if they actually put it in the supremacy or has a separate ship for it.
If the bad guys were smart there wouldn't be a story. If tarkin had launched several squads of tie fighters then the rebels would've been shot down 🤷
@@everettjohnson9374 True.
I would agree
@@everettjohnson9374 Could have been used to ram to supremacy and blind it's sensors, but not destroy the ship or fleet .
Yeah, it's too bad that Last Jedi didn't use the concept at all when it was made canon in SW Rebels, with the Interdictor Cruiser coming back into play.
I still like the theory that hyperspace ramming was basically a warcrime since debre would disrupt hyperspace lanes and might even kill thousands of innocent on the other side of the galaxy. Simular to the hyperspace disaster from the high Republic.
That's a brilliant reason for not using it.
Shouldn't technically stop the Empire though, so probably there was some other factors that physically inhibited it from working until TLJ.
Like you'd need a target as big as the Mega-Star Destroyer, yet not as big as say a Death Star, for it to work.
kill thousands of innocents somewhere in the galaxy or let the murder death ball that can kill billions and will support a regime that will probably kill trillions
yeah, clearly it's more morally correct to risk everything on hitting a womprat and getting your entire rebellion killed instead
and do I really have to tell you how it makes no sense for the CIS to care?
@@garygcrook It would stop the empire because they'd worry their ships would be harmed by it.
@@gregbyrne6909 I meant that the Empire would have adapted it into a weapon/tactic they could use, and wouldn't have cared if it was considered a War Crime in the Star Wars universe.
@@garygcrook Maybe they did, and they just never had a reason to use it on-screen.
I like the explanation that the hyperspace tracker allowed the ramming to be possible. It would have created a unique situation for the scene to work without breaking the lore. In a way it feels like personal shields and lasguns in Dune. Both are OP, but in conjunction with each other it creates limitations that keep the story interesting.
Just technology evolved explonation is enough. Thinking that hyperspace ramming destroyed everything established before is like thinking why Middle Ages people didn't create a car.
An even bigger issue is if the ramming maneuver was such a one in a million shot, then why was that Holdo's plan?
She had no other options so was worth a shot. And it worked
It wasn't. She was just trying to escape.
@@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462 If she thought she could escape, then why were the others running away on escape pods?
@@Hailfire08 she was a trying to leave them away so the others could escape.
Her plan was to use the remaining fuel to run escspe pods where they could fly to crait unnoticed by the FO as it was tiny enough at first to go unnoticed by the FO scanners. This was as someone would sacrifice him or herself leading them away on the Raddus. They would hide out on crait then find a new place to hide
People at WEG & Zahn in 90's discussed making sure not to weaponise Hyperspace or create cheap mass drivers because they saw that it would break space battles in Star Wars as seen in the movies. I saw a video of a panel that Zahn was on with Aaron Allston and all the while that Zahn is talking about this Allston is nodding his head in agreement. That's what happens when you have experienced Sci-Fi writers. Pablo signs off on the hyperspace ram because "it looks cool". This is the big problem at Disney LucasFilm, the Story Group and the writers don't think about the impacts of what cool might have on the larger universe.
No, he agreed, because there was a precedence within TCW. What Holdo did was simply more precise, and therefore extraordinarily unlikely. It isn't weaponising hyperspace either - the collision is dependent on mass, alignment and distance. The collision is within realspace, with Holdo exploiting the period in which a vessel accelerates to at or beyond the speed of light.
@@AshanBhatoa "it isn't weaponizing hyperspace, it's just weaponizing getting into hyperspace"
if you can't tell how that is literally the same thing, congrats, you're why we have stupid things like this.
@@AshanBhatoa litterally put power to the thinking core or vacate our fandom
The people writing these movies and shows now think that things like lore, continuity, and world building can just mean whatever they want them to mean.
@@LucaUmbriellet’s say it is…. And? It would still work because it would not be viable to keep killing your ships. The rebels did not nor ever did even come close to having anywhere near the same amount of resources as the empire
You expect me to believe that space battles would somehow be trivialized because apparently I’m also expected to believe that people trying to win a war would spam a “cheap mass driver” that only works under certain strict conditions and very much could avoided…. Idk feels like y’all like making excuses sometimes
And let’s not pretend like the Empire wouldn’t have changed tactics even despite Palpatine deliberately setting them up to be dumb
Trade massive expensive flag ships for more numerous smaller ones that are still more powerful if not on par with the flag ships of the rebels
Idk, even as stupid as they are after they lost like the 3rd big ship or fleet to some last ditch lucky rams… I’m sure they’d adapt
And I guess you’d counter with “well why not make drones blah blah blah” why not do that now and just have them fight the war for you. Ie, the fuckin droids. If that was your concern, then why didn’t everyone just make droids of their own then… no one of yours dies and you can still fight, infinitely more efficient then what they did, but I’m only expected to believe they’d invest in that technology if they could hyperspace ram
What does it even matter when world killing ships exist anyways
Actually, this concept could have been played off really well. In order to track the Radis, the Supremacy becomes linked to it through Quantum entanglement, so if Holdo had jumped away from the Supremacy, it would have automatically followed, but the reverse happens when she jumps toward the Supremacy, pulling them together into annihilation.
And then to simply add that link into the movie, display it on a sensor screen, "We can't get away, the ship is linked to us on a Quantum level." "What does that mean?" "It means it will follow The Radis wherever it goes." And you lay the groundwork for, 'If it's going to follow me everywhere, might as well go through it' as a concept to develop. Then the ramming makes more sense, and you can use that Quantum entanglement to be the reason why Hyperspace ramming only works in certain conditions. You can't quantum entangle an entire planet to a ship-no cheap hyperspace missiles.
Oh fuck, this is the perfect mix of pseudo intellectualism and nerdiness at its finest.... i can already hear the "Um Ackchyually" ringing in my ears
🤣😂🤣😂
Quantum mechanics in Star Wars would break the universe even more. She jumped into hyperspace when the First Order was close enough to make contact during the jump. That’s it.
Stop defending it. Star wars is an embarrassment now. Its all a bad joke. Just throw it in the trash.
I think instead of “hyperspace tracking” the First Order should have used gravity well generators like the Interdictor. It would make more sense for the chase since the Resistance would be unable to jump to hyperspace rather than them just running out of fuel after a jump
Relying on the hyperspace tracker has been my head canon, too. One can imagine that the first order found the plans laying around in some forgotten research archive and didn't bother to question why it was never used. But I've never been optimistic that official canon will catch up to head canon.
Man whoever wrote this theory has more writing ability than the entire Lucasfilm team!
But that's the thing. Everyone is trying so hard to polish this turd. These lame attempts to try and make this shit more palatable to eat is a complete waste of time and energy.
@@JackRipper8881 I mean we’re kinda stuck with it so if people can find a way to make it less painful it’s at least semi-worth it
Low bar is LOW when talking about the quality of the 'writing' in TLJ.
Hyperspace tracking and hyperspace ramming were two of the many things that confused me as I watched TLJ. I was enjoying the film and willing to forgive all of them until Luke died from thinking. Then the hyperspace jump that looked like a shooting star was just adding insult to injury.
Why? Because you think Middle Ages people can create a car? Hyperspace tracking and hyperspace ramming are the same thing - technology evolved.
@@LukiKrukihyperspace ramming isn’t technology evolved. Hyperspace has been around for over 10,000 years by this point. You mean to tell me in that many years not one person thought to do hyperspace ramming if it was possible? 😂
@@kingorange7739 Humanity created planes because they saw flying birds and wanted to be like one. The inspiration. The space whales, purrgils, are the same thing in Star Wars universe in context of space ships and hyperspace travel.
@@LukiKruki Which again was acomplished 10,000 years before the sequels. So this point is made moot extremely quickly.
My headcanon is that the section of shield DJ dropped was still down at the time. DJ then communicated the position of the down shield to Holdo's ship, pretending to be his new "friends", assuming they'd fire at the weak spot.
Why would DJ do this? Well, he had just gotten paid by the First Order, but he knows they're more likely to kill him than let him off the ship with all that money. So he needs a distraction so he can get away in the confusion.
My headcanon/theory is that Holdo’s plan was to explode against the Supremacy to serve as a distraction/smokescreen.
It worked the way it did because of a fluke.
The Supremacy was massive enough to generate a mass shadow that could pull a ship out of hyperspace. But because it was nowhere near as massive as a planet, the shadow was small enough that if you hit it just right the ship would hit the Supremacy in that split second of having massive speed upon exiting hyperspace. You couldn’t use that against the Supremacy on purpose without knowing it’s precise mass and position in the split second of your run, and anything larger like the Death Star would yank the ship out too far away
I know very little of the technical lore, but I agree to an extent with this. I was thinking a bit differently though. We seem to see ships sort of rapidly accelerate and disappear when jumping into hyperspace. Maybe that’s not what technically is happening and is just how it’s depicted, but I’ve kind of assumed it works like the DeLorean in Back to the Future where a certain speed must be reached before crossing a threshold and jumping. I assumed the ship was still in this acceleration phase and not technically in hyperspace, thus things worked a little bit differently.
Again, I don’t know a lot of the technical details so maybe this is just stupid and still shouldn’t have worked.
Imagine cheap droid piloted missiles that went into hyperspace right before they collided with their target. The hyperdrives could be class 12 and be of a lower quality.
How? Mass is important?
The collision is within realspace?
Hyperspace is weird. The collision would be in hyperspace. Once the computer locks on the target they would go into hyperspace.
@@duncanmcallister7932 That's not what happened in TLJ, as Sholto was jumping to Hyperspace when her ship collided with the Mega-Star Destroyer.
That means she wasn't in Hyperspace when the collision happened.
And I don't believe that the Galaxy Gun worked the way you describe either.
I never brought the galaxy gun in to the topic. I was talking about something I thought of. Also I think Holdo was in hyperspace.
@@duncanmcallister7932 Sorry, the Galaxy Gun uses a form of Hyperspace Missile as well which is what confused me.
Holdo was not in Hyperspace, she was in the "jumping to Hyperspace" part yet not actually in hyperspace when the ram occurred.
My theory a couple weeks after seeing the film was that the shields were down due to the overconfidence of the First Order fleet hunting down just four ships, because in previous material (would need to more research/double check), the Executor was hit by a couple Mon Cal Cruisers that did a accidental ramming into it and the shields kept it fine, and I assume it has been seen in other sources with other ships as well.
Overall a lot of other things could have been done...
I remember that one. It's from a comic. And it was two ISD that accidentally ramming the SSD when jumping out of hyperspace.
I assumed the hyperspace portal for the tracker is used to get more accacy in that calculation by also giving a more exact refrence point and then calculating the trajectory baised on known hyperspace routes
My theory is a little more simply and plays quite well into core Star Wars themes.
The Supremacy was cleaved in two because her shields weren’t up, and why would they be? What will a couple small ships do against an armada? This is exactly the same thinking that destroyed both Death Stars.
They were outside of effective weapons range, knew the Raddis wasn't going to turn and fight, and needed the energy for their own engines at full thrust+the artillery cannons. If they'd had their shields up they probably would have turned the attack easily, hyperspace tracker or not.
Earlier in the movie, we see that all of its shields were up - until DJ dropped one and hacked the control panel to make it look like it was still up. He needed to do that for their ship to get on board.
Okay, so here's the thing. We never see the ship's crew ever notice that shield was down. And it makes sense for DJ to simply have left it down. I mean, he's got to escape at some point, right?
There are any number of ways DJ might have sent a message to Holdo's ship, pretending to be Finn/Rose. Something like morse code, rather than voice. He could have told the coordinates to fire at.
His plan would be to have the Resistance fire at an unshielded point, causing a distraction so he could escape. Otherwise, he risks the First Order simply killing him rather than let him off the ship with all that money.
@@IsaacKuo Except DJ sold them out *so much* that he even gave them information *he couldn't possibly have* just to save himself
It would’ve been cool if the supremacy’s tracker gave it it’s own mass shadow, so when the rebels ships made a hyperspace jump, their navcomputers would’ve calculated it to avoid hitting, and that created some kind of feedback that the supremacy could use to track them like echolocation or something. Then when Finn gets onto the supremacy, he could leak that info to the rebels and then they use it on purpose.
That's basically what I came up with years ago and it fixes many of the problems
1) Why isn't hyperspace ramming done more? They can't because it's an interaction between the tracker and the tracked ship. Without those, such a maneuver does nothing.
2) Why let the entire fleet get destroyed down to the last ship? To guaranty the tracked ship is the one that's going to plow into the tracker
3) Why didn't Holdo seek out a plan like what Po sends Finn and Rose to do despite it being such an obvious route? Because disabling the tracker would interfere with the ramming plan and they'd have no way to be sure it's down
That doesn't address the simple "why not have some ships cut the 'Rebel Fleet' off?" but it's at least a *start* at trying to make thinks make sense
My theory/proposal is that the shields where down on the supremacy because they had all power to engines/weapons trying to keep up with the raddis. That's why everyone was freaking out, because when they saw holdo start turning around they knew they where toast. Holdo had a "feeling" from the force that told her to take the chance. Cause the force is everywhereish in everyone ish to certain degrees. Honestly, i thought the shields where down when I saw it the first time, didnt know there was conflict about it till later.
I'd buy the shield logic and honestly believe the damage from the ramming turned that missing portion of the supremacy into missiles....and those chunks were likely the size of atleast fighters if not bigger so that damage already made somewhat sense.
Yeah. I don’t remember if anything was said in the movie about the shields but if their shields were down for some reason then it could make sense, especially if we also say that it was still a very lucky hit.
@@Superninfreak yeah because lets be real this hit and the first death star hits were basically lucky hits
Nah I don't think that fully clears it up. If ship shields are what stop hyperspace ramming from working, that only decreases the problem a bit. There's plenty of targets that don't have ship class shields. How about most ground based units and buildings. The dramatic test of the death star on Jedha could easily still be replicated by a hyperspace ram. What about in suprise attacks on a ship when they don't have their shields up. And ship shields go down all the time in space combat, but then you have to take out the actual ship superstrucutre itself. Why not have a hyperspace torpedo loaded and launch it once you take down their shields. That might cut half the battle against a large capital ship. How about over Hoth when they shorted a whole star destroyer. Sending one unmanned transport ship (of which they lost 17 during the battle) into that would have changed it from a temporary escape opening to a casualty. If the weakest capital ship shields completely block hyperspace rams, there's still plenty of practical uses that would break continuity.
@@stuartl7761 By down I meant shields are off/at zero. So the strength of the shields is moot.
But yeah, i get what you're saying. I'm not the writer of star wars, but if I was, I'd say hyperspace torpedoes aren't effective in close ship to ship combat because they move too fast to be guided, so it's a lucky shot and therefore guided systems are much more effective. And Or that missiles/bombs/lasers are much cheaper and usually as effective in most situations and if hyperspace missiles did exist, they're very specialized. 🤔 i can't remember what it's called, but legends did use hyperspace weapons to take out planets in the comics. Anyways, I don't mean to argue, cause i agree with what you say, I'm just clarifying what I said earlier.
0:38 *_"Whatever, it's all made up anyway..."_* 🤭 IMO, that alone is the best explanation yet! 😄
I suppose the issue I have with any of these explanations is how _Admiral Holdohead_ (and witnesses) appeared to think she had a chance at stopping them when she stayed behind. If this was such a _one in a million_ shot, seems kind of silly to expect any useful outcome. 🤷🏼♂️
She was never planning on stopping them, it was a distraction for the others to escape. The pods were being shot at and losing more and more soldiers it was a quick decision, in these instances there is little time to think of a plan when life is being lost and u are powerless to save them. She acted like a true rebel whetger you like her or not, sacrificing herself so her army can live to fight another day.
As someone who is very young and was mostly raised on the new canon, Holdo's maneuver made sense to me, my rationale was that a large ship collided with another large ship, or because that Holdo had deliberately set the navicomputer's calculations so that she could strike the First Order fleet. And I had heard that in legends starships could collide in hyperspace, and the damage was enormous. Plus I then got to "Light of the Jedi", where the Great Hyperspace Disaster was shown.
And then I saw The Rise of Skywalker...
But if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it
@@InfernosReaper Maybe. But, please note that the Holdo maneuver was not a typical military maneuver, but rather a last-chance maneuver that is more applicable in guerrilla warfare than in a regular battle in which you do not retreat due to the small number of ships, it would be a greater waste of resources than the situation presented in The last Jedi. And you still need a ship at least the size of a cruiser or frigate (or a very large transport) because for obvious reasons you can't perform such a maneuver with a ship the size of a fighter.
@@adrianluczak6263 If one can take out a super capital ship and wreck some of the support ships at the cost of 1 ship and 1 person or droid that would otherwise just be destroyed in a fight, why not?
I've heard this theory before and it would have worked well; giving the Supremecy a presence on both realspace and hyperspace to use it's tracking but make it vulnerable to such a move would have been a great lore point. Would make the FO think twice before using this tech as even a small ship aimed at the right angle could eviscerate half a fleet using the ram.
nah, Holdo had to know how the tracking tech worked.
I still remain on my old theory: the Raddus was still accelerating and was not yet into hyperspace, therefore the mass of the ship was still in our dimension but hyperaccelerated.
There are a lot of things that could have been used to explain the scene better:
1. Sublight ramming and collisions in Star Wars are actually done a lot of times to great effect, and we see it used effectively in other shows, movies, games, and series.
2. They never clearly state that the Raddus had experimental shields in the Last Jedi. A simple dialogue sentence in the movie would have made MUCH more sense.
3. There was another way to approach this. The Supremecy could have used interdiction field generators to hold the ship from jumping into hyperspace. The field goes down, and Holdo sacrifices herself by jumping into Supremecy. The concept of Hyperspace ramming has happened in SW, whether by accident or on purpose, and can be mitigated by Interdiction and gravitational fields. I.E., the Death Star is producing its own form of Interdiction/Gravitational field at certain close distances causing ships to jump out of hyperspace.
My proposal whenever the hyperspace ram is brought up is mass. The supremacy is big, but the raddus is also fairly sizable. and note: the raddus hit a fairly small part of a thin ship, and shrapnel was what destroyed the fleet behind it. so my thought was it was because the raddus was always a decent size, thats why it was able to do what it did, and why something similar couldn't be done to the death star cause it wouldn't have been too effective.
Obviously this answer is terrible, like any other answer, because it ignores hundreds of scenarios where hyperspace ramming could be possible and effective, and my current solution is to consider the sequels non-canon lmfao
Also, what if the Raddis came back out of hyperspace at a point slightly after the shields, but essentially inside the leading edge of the Supremacy?
So Holdo used the HyperSpace tracking to allow the Raddus to accurately return back and slice the Sumpemacy when she turn on the hyperdrive on her ship. This sounds like similar tactical procedure to what Luthen Rael using the Cantwell Class Crusier Tractor beam to allow the shrapnel ejected from the rear of the Fondor to trace directly back to the source of the tractor beam.
Except it shouldn’t work because Han took the Millennium Falcon into hyperspace from inside the larger freighter in Force Awakens. If we’re expected to believe the Radus jump worked, then the Falcon should have been destroyed.
Seriously the mental gymnastics some uber fans have to pull to make sense of BAD WRITING is astounding. If anyone was paying attention literally one movie before, they would notice.
Besides someone did a lore accurate video of the Radus destroyed on the Supremacy’s shields. Way better than the official movie. Perfect way to end the sequels and just skip Rise of Skywalker altogether.
A: your argument makes literally zero sense in regards to the theory, how the fuck is it connected to hyperspace tracking
B: Ecks kinda omitted some details of the theory for the sake of it being a short (he kinda lifted it from reddit's
r/themawinstallation
C: He explicitly said it is not the case and the writers fucked up with some shitty super computer explanations and showed his frustration over it and the holdo manouver in Rots which also disproves this theory and complains that it is not actually the case
D: The video where the Raddus explodes is literally uploaded by Ecks lol
@@adamsosna7263 it’s fan excuses. Thank you for making my point. Pay fucking attention to the exact movie before it.
Hyperspace torpedoes are the meta of Star Wars space combat now.
Even if this explanation was true, they'd still have to explain why Holdo knew it was possible. The entire movie STILL has to be rewritten to accommodate this bs.
My theory was that it only works if you are under the effect of an interdictor. It would make sense that you use it to keep a ship from going into hyperspace but if you had a ship 'almost' strong enough to punch through it, you get the ramming we see.
Never mind that hyperspace ramming was first proposed in the original West End Games TTRPG back in 1987! The manual supplement which brought it up did mention that it was very uncommon but not unheard of, granted that was only cannon to the in-game-verse. I honestly don't know if it ever showed up in any of the novels.
If you have seen the work done by AFanWithTooMuchTime, he is doing a missive Star Wars vs Warhammer 40K fanfiction on youtube, and if I remember correctly he had an interesting take with this.
Basically hyperspace ramming is known, but it goes against every law, treaty, and moral convention and causes missive secondary damage to other planets and systems behind the target. It's why it's not used more, as for most people it is something unthinkable to do and the 'victory' you get from it does not outweigh the damages you cause to the galaxy.
This could have been a cool thing to add to canon and would explain why no one came to help the resistance after the Ram occurred, as they would have viewed them in the same negative light as the bad as the First Order
If I'm getting this correctly, the theory implies that Hyperspace tracking technology somehow grounds some parts of Hyperspace into our reality, which allowed the Raddus to actually hit the Supremacy. Something that would normally be impossible because the ship would have already transitioned into the Hyperspace dimension by that point.
As in the reason why Holdo attempted this in the first place, what if she did intend to ram the Supremacy, but at sublight speed? And the only reason she went into hyperspace was to close the distance with a micro-jump since approaching the fleet a sublight speed would mean that Raddus would get anihilated long before reaching it?
When I watched in theaters, I felt like it had to be that hyperspace ramming does a number of things that make future hyperspace travel in a region more dangerous or even impossible. When they called for help & no one answered, that was because the galaxy was in full on panic over the ramifications of Laura Dern's move. Ships stranded years/centuries from help, world's cut off, lanes severed, portions of hyperspace flooded with deadly debri & radiation, loss of life potentially in the billions, mass starvation. It could have been a real turning point for the series. Kinda like when Star Trek played around with warp travel being harmful but didn't commit.... The only thing that would have been a bigger surprise/film moment would have been if they'd held back the Starkiller base to this film & it was actually a New Republic weapon in Leia's command that she was luring Snoke to... but idk, I don't think there's an theory/answer for it that'll ever be all that satisfying.
That's actually the best theory I've heard. A potential consequence so bad, not even the bad guys want to do it. It leaves Holdo open to a lot of criticism for being so reckless, but at least makes her actions explainable, being a radical idealist in a do or die situation from which there is no escape for her or her friends. It might even explain why she did it herself, so that no one could stop her. Droids and auto pilots might have overrides to stop it happening, just like trying to speak a long dead sith language.
My whole question about this is: What happened to Hyperspace lanes?
There's a whole tail of things that just don't make sense if hyperspace jumps where this random.
Blockades make no sense in the Disney universe...
Hyperspace lanes are for safety, you can hyperspace out of lanes but risk getting caught in gravity wells of planets.
I like that this theory makes hyperspace ramming and tracking, which are overpowered, counteract each other so nobody use them
My headcanon was that she was Leia's protege and that she was force sensitive. And that her use of the force was the same kind of metaphorical "I'm going to bring all these pieces together to serve a united purpose" kind of thing that Leia unconsciously did in the original trilogy. Only here she's literally holding the particles of the ship together so they don't phase apart as she enters hyperspace.
It's only doable because it requires a skilled, trained, force sensitive individual.
The fact the fans have to come up with these explanations that movie makers can’t come up with us disappointing
I figured it was something like this; the tracker is something akin to a hyperspace periscope, which the raddus impacted at relativistic speed and broke up, dropping out of hyperspace and dumping a shotgun blast of relativistic debris inside the supremacy's hull. A good reason why no one does this even if they could is that same debris field that inflicts the damage; those are never going to stop. A small pebble traveling with that much energy could hit a planet some day and wreck a huge city, a baseball could level a continent or worse. There is no way to stop the debris, and they'll be expanding off in a cone intersecting the galactic plane until they leave the galaxy and are lost to extra galactic deep space, potentially causing millions, maybe billions of times more damage than the death star or even Star killer base. I don't think we ever get much of a view of what's behind the supremacy, but perhaps that was the reason for the protracted realspace pursuit despite the danger; causing the first order fleet to give chase to the outer edge of the outer rim and the jockey for position so there is as little of the galaxy in the firing line as possible, with the pursuit proceeding coreward and the debris field heading outward with the minimum amount of the galaxy in its way possible. No one does this because they're trying to rule the galaxy, not indiscriminately murder people light-centuries away at some indeterminate point in the future
So there is an explanation! If you read the book. It says the shield is experimental and and was the only ship in the galaxy that had that type of shield. When accelerated to hyperspeed the ship technically disintegrated but the shield energy itself created a plasma tunnel hotter than a star and highly magnetized. I mean it’s not perfect but it’s a decent explanation and to me as good as any.
Fans: your stories are obviously inconsistent but there was this actually quite cool way to fix them
Disney: No
0:26 Here's another topic you can rise. How the hell did the Resistance get the blue print of the Mega Star Destroyer?
If my memory serve me well, I believe this was their first encounter with that vessel.
a lot of ppl forgot that this was a maneuver first conceived in Star Trek. In the Best of Both worlds when Riker wasn't able to outmaneuver the cube he set a collision course for the cube and was going to initiate Warp.
If this worked under the laws of physics in the Star Wars universe/lore, then there would have already been some kind of torpedo performing this trick automatically. Evil Empire would have surely used it long time ago instead of bothering with god knows how many Deathstar iterations.
The scanner has to open a portal to hyperspace and keep it open, so it can poke a instrument package through it.... thus holdo's Ship didn't hit the other ship. it his the probe package at relativisic speed causing the energy to go through the hyperspace portal into real space...
The ship above ewok planet was also using a tracker..
Said experimental tech might be... enhanced enough for Multiversal travel parameters, I'll add.
I sure do wish the sequels were good movies. They had some incredible visuals like in this scene or when the new death thing’s lasers were hitting the planets. Photos like these would be perfect for a background on a phone or something to remind you of a really incredible scene. Sadly, they weren’t incredible scenes. They had so much potential to create incredible Star Wars movies.
I just didn't like how the sacrifice was from a character we just met vs the captain of the ship who we had a long history with.
So I just realized this... the officer on the bigger ship says "preparing to jump to light speed" which is NOT hyperspace. now, idk what the implications of this are, but it means the ship was merely traveling at light speed, but within the physical universe and not in hyperspace/parallel space/slipspace/[insert lore name for whatever hyperspace is here]. maybe if you look at it like that it could make sense?
It could just be a simple case of The Last Jedi taking place after the OT and technology has moved on. Whatever hyperdrive, shielding etc that ship used had a quirk that allowed such a maneuver.
Finally someone said the true thing based on real life. It's like building a car in our times VS in Middle Ages
I feel like people also forget The Raddus is a bit of a pointed ship which could have had some factor in it
Probably not but an interesting idea none the less
Look. I know the Force Awakens was boring as hell, but while everyone was sleeping, they explained it. When they were landing on Starkiller Base, Han Solo stated First Order shields use a special frequency with a weakness that they allow things travelling at hyperspace through.
When I first saw the movie I assumed the hacker lied and had sabotaged the shields to allow the ram to take place
Well, there was technology used by the Empire that could imitate a planets gravitational pull, which would pull ships out of hyperspace. I think it could be possible that the First Order was using that technology, and that the Resistance reworked the hyperdrive to attempt to go into hyperspace anyways, giving enough speed for a ram like that to be possible, possibility also causing the hyperdrive to explode. Basically reworking the hyperdrive to where if they tried to go into hyperspace while in a planets gravitational pull, it turns itself into a bomb. This could be extremely flawed though.
After consuming most of SW content in the last years, hyperspace is magic. That's it.
No one really understands it, it just works. It's a major part of the High republic first book too which sort of goes into it. It doesn't explain hyperspace ramming at all, but it does allow for it.
....Space ships of Star Wars are magic too. They wouldn't fly in space like planes in the atmosphere.
Star Wars is a science fiction.
And asking yourself why hyperspace tracking and ramming are possible in Sequel Trilogy but not in the previous Trilogies is like asking why humans can create a car in our times when they couldn't create it in Middle Ages. The technology just evolved, but in Star Wars it's science fiction technology.
Did you forget SW has a "ray shield" vs "particle shield" issue? Imperials didn't optimize towards particle shield which is the same shield doctrine problem for the 1st Death Star.
A ray shield was a specialized type of deflector shield used to absorb radiation and raw energy, as opposed to particle shields, which repelled solid objects.
A large MonCal capital starship is optimized for shields, hence it works for hyperspace ram. The armor penetrator is well-protected against the intended armor design.
If I had a dime for every time they talk about hyperspace ramming, id be richer than Elon
There's a even simplier explanation. Bad scriptwriting.
Actually a good explanation that, if canonized in the movie would have made me alot happier.
Ramming was already in Star Wars decades ago, but it was established that Super Star Destroyer shields can take hits pretty well... Such as three ISDs coming out of hyperspace right into it. The Supremacy could probably handle the Raddus by extension, their size discrepancy being similar.
This could have worked if, for instance, they'd established that the Mega SD had its shields down, or otherwise compromised... Perhaps some onboard sabotage on the part of Finn and co, in an attempt to disable the tracker damaged their power system and the ship was in the process of routing power away from its shields, seeing them as non-critical until the Raddus turns to fight.
Holdo could even see their shields weakening with the Raddus' sensors to make her less... grossly incompetent for even trying.
It wouldn't fix her refusing to explain her plans to the very people she was counting on to *do* them, but it's one step out of thousands needed...
this does make sense. But hyperspace tracking was not introduced in the last Jedi. We see the empire plant a tracker on the ghost during the first season of rebels, and they track it through hyperspace.
I don't get why people would go down with their ship when droids and autopilot exist. The whole premise is screwy.
But wait ain't their stages of jumping meaning the zoom part before entering the energy could blast threw almost like vaperies the rebel ship from the energy after impact*
I love how they forgot that hyperspace and normal space are different
They could have made it a sith artifact that creates a hyperspace anchor to a target, allowing it to track but is also a double edged sword. And being a rare sith artifact it’s not something you can just slap on every ship. And they could have had admiral ackbar pilot that cruiser because he might conceivably know of the sith hyperspace tracker drawbacks through a conversation with Luke
i just keep thinking the force allowed it when the saber was ripped apart by the dyad.
again, this is called into question by that time anakin set the malevolence or its sister ship on a hyperspace collision course with a separatist planet.
It wasn't hyperspace it just went into it normally
Fans: *Come up with a very creative fix for the Holdo Maneuver*
Disney: No Thank You! We'll stick to our own braindead logic.
I’ve always wondered how that could work. It’s an awesome scene. The moment you mentioned shields everything started lining up. Those ships are notorious for their shields.
Though that begs the question of why doesn't everyone create hyperspace missiles with those shields
@@TheFoolishSamurai yeah its just shifting the problem around. the hyperspace tracker theory does make sense to me because we've only ever seen it in this scenario
Here is my issue with hyperspace ramming. They show the fleet getting absolutely decimated. Then not too long after they show the last of the resistance getting cornered.... like how sway? They landed an entire planetary armada like it was no issue at all??? Like the in movie explanation would then have to be that it's not very effective and the supremacy was only damaged. But what they show us in one scene doesn't match with another at all.
Wait I thought it made sense b/c Holdo’s ship struck the Supremacy at extreme high speeds before one would enter hyperspace. And that when light speed tracking at close range it pretty much narrowed the path Holdo’s ship for it to work
Is? is this the hockey guy?
That makes sense cause the hyperspace tracker is simply just the flux capacitor
Sense doesn't come into it, buddy! It was a desperation move!
Hyperspace tracking like GPS you can choose to ignore anything the computer inputs just like you can choose to not take the root the GPS tells you so that comments at the end doesn't make any sense and if your Droid is piloting the ship they'll just follow what the computer tell us to do and the pilot is also going to follow what the computer tells them to do
“mUh LoRe” JFC
I used to play a lot of Star Wars: TIE Fighter, and I was really weirded out when all the Star Wars characters were shocked that they had been tracked through light speed. In the game, you seem to be able to do it all the time. :\
This has been my head cannon since I heard the theory, I think it's great
Disney screwed up, as usual.
If you pay good attention to the original star Wars movie (later on labeled Episode IV A New Hope), Han has to make the calculations to jump out of hyperspace without showing up in an asteroid field or something like that. If we understand this correctly, it means that once you jump into hyperspace, you are "safe" there until you jump back into regular space which you have to know where exactly that will be so you don't end up jumping into the core of a planet or a star or the asteroid field or even another space ship. This actually makes a lot of sense because technically, the ship is traveling faster than light (FTL) to be able to get into hyperspace and you don't want to crash into anything when doing the jumps. Crashing into anything at the speed of light or faster (as far as we know that is impossible but this is a movie anyways) would create something like a singularity, because anything traveling at the speed of light (or faster in this scenario) has infinite mass and as so, infinite energy. So, crashing would release all that, creating first an explosion that would consume the entire universe but second, a singularity as all that mass comes to an abrupt stop so it would form a blackhole.... the size of the universe since it is infinite mass? These are paradoxes in real life. if you think about it, most likely the universe would not come to an end because the explosion would not travel at the speed of light due to relativity, and even if it did, the universe is expanding faster than light, so the explosion would only reach to a point in every direction where the expansion is faster isolating that explosion forever in that region, that as we can calculate right now, could be the same size as the observable universe today.
So, back to the scene in the movie, based on everything said, the scene is absolutely wrong. Either the ship would have NOT collided with anything at all, or, it would have collided at he speed of light or faster creating such singularity that would be at least 93 billion light years in diameter (the observable universe size we know). needless to say, the entire Sky River galaxy (this is what is supposed to be the name of the Star Wars galaxy) would be destroyed in just a few thousand years as the explosion grows.
Mickey Mouse, please stop making Star Wars movies and continue doing princesses stories.
What about the Raddus' shields? Weren't they super-fancy experimental tech?
This explanation fits very well, much better that the weak canon version.
Personally I thought this was a great cinematic moment. I had no problem with it at the time except that all the escorting SD’s also split in pieces, which still makes no sense to me 🤷♂️
Unfortunately, these 3 films were definitely style over substance.
If hyperdrive tracking wasn't a thing, how did interdictor cruisers work ? Like they just put the interdictors on a random course, and hope someone would go through ? Oh right, Eu doesn't exist anymore in canon.
I think there's a much more simple answer.
It's probably a literal war crime. Imagine the infrastructure damage! It pollutes hyperspace lanes THAT MUCH.
Consider it like this, is anyone able to use the hyperspace lanes in the area of that hyperspace ram? No potentially not, which means they'd need to get there without using hyper space. Aka it's the equivalent to nuking space and just leaving the radiation to burn the civilians.
So it probably just isn't done because simply out if it was in real life it would unquestionably be considered the biggest war crime you could do and could cut off entire planets from the rest of the galaxy's infrastructure in terms of it's hyperspace lanes. It'd be like bombing a highway of civilians to take out a military vehicle using it.
TLJ had it's problems. But damn, that was one cool visual.
Rian Johnson was not ment for a sci fi Star Wars movie !! Everything was wrong with that movie
Star Wars fans getting mad that the Holdo maneuver doesnt make sense and breaks the physics of its universe probably couldn’t tell you the three laws of motion of the universe they actually live in. To the common person, the way a car works is as mysterious and magical as anything in Star Wars, why does it suddenly matter that one element isnt given a proper explanation, especially in a fictional universe that already plays it fast and loose with its science and physics?
My only guess is the shields were down for engine and weapon energy and then holdo smacking the Raddus into the Supremacy could have nuked the engines which would mean an absolute load of energy would’ve been blasted behind it toward the Star Destroyers. They just needed a way to explain the shield being down. Maybe the hyperspace tracker requires it off?
It's not just Supermacy, the entire First Order fleet get damaged from Holdo Manuver. So all of the ships shield is off all of the sudden?
shouldnt hyperspace fold space, hence not going in straight line and hitting everything in the way
nothing can be done to make sense of this trilogy
How did I end up in this rabbit hole?
But isn't hyperspace in the Star Wars universe confined to 'lanes' anyway. Doesn't make sense to me that R.J/Disney would even need to come up with 'super advanced hyperspace tracking', when conventionally the first disorder could just follow said lanes anyway.
i can't believe i have to explain it but obviously it's not frequently used because the cost is steep; you have to sacrifice not just your ship but your own life
or just use the cheapest hyperdrive, asteroid and droid.
Not good enough.
Put the target ship between a simplified tracker and a hyperdrived asteroid that acts as a rammer, when aligned, hit jump.
Other way is to make two asteroids collide and use the cloud of fragments, as shown above.
My question is how Holdo would've known this would work in the first place? Seems like a new plot hole
Even if it did make sense, it still causes more problems and questions than it's worth. Why didn't they do this with Starkiller Base? The Death Stars? Executor super Star Destroyer? Trade Federation control ship or anything in the Clone Wars in between
And if no one had thought of it until then, then HOW? Trillions of beings in the galaxy with ready access to the same tech for thousands of years and not ONE of them put this particular two and two together? Really?
I think part of the explanation that Holdo ramming worked could be due to the fact that the Kyber crystal in Anakin's lightsaber, fed force by two powerful force users, snapped EXACTLY when Holdo hit the Supremacy.
We know that Kyber Crystals augment and disrupt energy. Would it be much of the stretch to think it could disrupt the Shields on the Supremacy?
Add to that the theory about hyperspace tracking and you have decent explanation for why this event is extremely unique on galactic scale. Shame that the movie did not set that up as Chekov's gun. One could hope for it in hypothetical extended cut of the movie.
The timing there does line up well. But that's the catch 22 of this situation. If it was a rare event that can't be used anywhere else and it required some coincidence that Holdo had no knowledge of, then it means she was making the dumbest tactical move possible by throwing away the only remaining capital the resistance had just when they needed space cover from it. And Hux wouldn't have been scared of it either.
@@stuartl7761 Indeed, that would require some scenes where Holdo discovers that shield on the Supremacy are fading, or that Hux is cocky until one of the officers on the bridge reports to him with panicked voice "Sir, the shields over the Supreme Leaders quarters are fading! And this malfunction is spreading, fast!" And then shot to panicked face by Hux, as he sees the Raddus aiming squarely at his ship.
Bonus points for extra scenes with Luke explaining how kyber crystals work to Rey (there is some great lore about them in "the Catalyst novel").
As stated before this scene lacks setup... which is weird considering that Rian Johnson is notoriously good and setting up Chekov's gun.
But would you need to actually go into hyperspace. You have to be going the speed of light to enter hyperspace. So if you just went 99.9% the speed of light you’d just go straight into the enemy ship without entering hyperspace.
Any physics nerd can figure out the energy released with such an impact. I’m guessing it’d be enough to destroy planets or complete solar systems. Definitely enough to destroy a ship.
Retroactively fixing a mistake is still a mistake
you know that to get to hyperspace they need to reach light speed, right?