Thanks, Custard! As a player, too, you've got little idea how well or badly a patrol will go. Well, except that as you get into 1942 things start getting much harder. :)
Great game. The four GMT game set, Hunters(still alive), Hunted (sunk first cruise), Silent Victory (sunk mines#11), Beneath the Med(can't find anything to sink😲) are all great!! Got, have not played yet, the Compass cousin. Raiders of the Deep WWI. Great videos sir. Most excellent.
Thanks Charles! Up next will be Silent Victory, and I'm waiting for my copy of Raiders of the Deep to arrive any day now. Thanks for the heads up about that one. :)
Thanks Stuka Joe! I've ordered your solo kit from GMT games too, and will try to make a video showing that once it gets here (probably still a few months away?). I hope all is well! :)
Excellent game. Excellent Review- spot on! I start all the way from 1939 using the Type VIIA. This game has a lot of agency - first, you decide if you want to attack Day/Night, whether surfaced and submerged, what range do you fire your torpedoes, type of torpedoes you want to fire, do you use AFT of FW tubes, do you want to do take your sub to crush depth to avoid detection, and... there are optional evasive measures you can employ, you decide if you want to go for an unescorted ship or a convoy with an escort, do you go for a tanker or a large freighter, do you want to avoid encounters, do you want to chase a ship if you were unable to sink it with your first salvo? Yes, each decision you make affects how you roll your dice, what modifiers you use. I made a mistake of attacking a convoy at close range and it nearly destroyed my uboat because the escorts kept detecting my Uboat. Oh, you get to level up your UBoat capt, your crew, your doctor, your engineer. This is a very fast game. Not many components involved. Setup and clean up is fast. So yea, this game has tons of agency.
Great points! I totally agree, with the caveat that there are elements in the game that can take you out even if you make all the right decisions. There are certain points where you're just going to die if the die rolls don't go in your favor. I'd argue this is very much an element of the nature of submarine warfare in WW2 as well, at a certain point you're playing the odds and hoping for the best. :)
As to agency - how much agency did a U-Boat captain actually have? They didn't choose their patrol areas for the most part, or whether or not they got a wolfpack onside. I felt like it's done a good job of representing the *actual* decisions a U-Boat captain would get to make.
Here's to hoping that Silent Victory can make it through the P500 process quickly! I know a lot of people are hoping to get it and/or The Hunters. Good choice! I think American Tank Ace is very close to shipping, or has started shipping. I'm interested to see how the system extends to tank combat. :)
Superb review. At first I was also into thinking the game should use little bit more of decision agency but now I actually respect how it is set up. There are always mods that you can get if you need the extra agency. I actually like the Spartan way the game art is designed more and more. It comes down to personal tastes of each individual player in the end. It is a classic indeed. The whole series should get a reprint/remke. Luckily I bought all in time before they ran out of stock.
Totally agree. The streamlined nature of play that still generates variety and tension is brilliant, and I'd hate to see a ton of features get added that double the playing time. :)
Great review ZB. You addressed the agency "issue" very well I thought. I'm forever responding to that perception and now I can just point them to this review. :)
Great review! I liked your patrol videos so much I hunted down all four games! Just finished a campaign from Sep 39 to Oct 44 and it was a hoot! The Oct 44 patrol ended much like your 13th patrol. The time frame when things go from bad to worse is pretty much spot on. One source counted Mar 43 as THE month when the balanced shifted. The Nazis claimed 34 ships while losing 41 U-boats. One of the things I like and hate is the randomness that pops up from time to time. Such as getting Superior Torpedoes on the first transit box then never sighting a ship or convoy for the rest of the patrol! Frustrating but fun! Time to do another campaign for the Med or the Pacific!
Thanks, Jim! That sounds like a great success if you made it all the way through The Hunters and into The Hunted. Yes, I've seen some of the numbers on the second half of 1943 and 1944 and they are brutal. Not a time to be in a U-Boat! I like the randomness and variety that the game spawns too. For such a smooth playing game, it generates so many unique outcomes. Good luck in your next campaign!
Thanks for the excellent and fair review. Compass Games will be releasing Atlantic Sentinels sometime next year. This will be a companion game to The Hunters. This time you will be protecting allied convoys against U boat attacks. There is also a chance that Greg Smith will redo The Hunters.
Thanks, Michael! That's great news about Compass Games. I've seen a number of spin offs of the genre available on their site too, and have ordered the World War 1 U-Boat game from them last week. A reprint/remake of The Hunters would be fantastic as well. It's hard to find now. :)
@@ZillaBlitz Raiders of the Deep is an outstanding game. It has political features (cruiser rules), and prize (capturing) rules. The target roster is one of its outstanding features. Enemy ships are listed chronologically (1914-1918). You won't regret adding it to your collection. It's one of my favorites. Best wishes.
Loving this series - Yep still catching up ha ha. Really is a well made game with so many decisions to make and all the actions possible. U-Boats had no actual say in where they patrolled for example so I think this so far has captured that well.
Yes, for sure. I think the agency area I'm thinking of is in some of the battle tactics and decisions, not so much the patrol zones issues. I probably wasn't very clear on that. :)
I wonder if the rights to a reprint lie with the designer? These came out as a Consim Press/GMT game, and I'm not sure if Consim Press is a thing any more? Most of the Consim links are dead and their Facebook page hasn't been updated since May of 2020.
Keep up the awesome videos, as a kid I bought some games, like Air Cav, Fire Power, ASL, and honestly was way to young. But now much older and watching your videos is getting me back in to this style of games.
Well done I’m glad you addresses the agency aspect I have placed enemy coast ahead and felt it told a story as opposed to being a solitaire game. Although it is. A great game. Not much replay ability Again great job
Thanks, Marc! I'm comfortable with the balance they strike between agency and fate in these games, and am curious on Enemy Coast Ahead. I hope to get that one to the table earlier next year.
Great analysis of a superb game! I particularly enjoyed your discussion regarding agency. I've always felt that the designer -- in creating the possibility of disparate moments during which your Kapitain either has influence, or none at all -- accurately simulates the reality of battle. There's always just enough room for informed decision-making (increasing your odds of success), but never without the risk of disaster as a result. Fate is a cruel mistress indeed. I do think, though, that an integrated mechanism for resource allocation (even as an optional rule) throughout a patrol could have bumped up agency somewhat. Nonetheless, The Hunters scores a direct hit in terms of creating an (ahem) "immersive" naval warfare experience.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the review. :) I do think the agency element, as you mention, is a good fit for the game, and the idea of a mechanism for resource allocation would be interesting to explore. Thanks for stopping in!
Thanks, reptar! I did an unboxing on Heard of Darkness a while back, but haven't gotten it to the table yet for a playthrough. I really should bump it up in the list, it looks quite good as a solo game too.
You know every game that involves dice rolls there's a certain kind of 'gambling' involved. But as you explained, even that comes with a certain amount of tactics. Risk and reward, I guess. And yes, sometimes everything will go wrong and sometimes everything will go right. I don't think it's fair to say it takes away player agency, it is just a different method of implementing agency and having to live with the coices you made. Kind of like playing CK3 in Ironman mode 🤣
That's very true, isn't it! CK3 has those moments when you get total disasters as children and then your whole kingdom goes sideways on you and you lose EVERYTHING. :)
Yep, I agree. This was one of my earlier reviews, and I try to add more gameplay footage in more recent reviews. I will point out that I have a 13-part series on the game showing hours of gameplay, though: th-cam.com/video/dRbiiaGVRN0/w-d-xo.html
For me, as a viewer, this game was brilliant. In each mission you had no idea what was going to happen. Best wargaming series you've put out so far.
Thanks, Custard! As a player, too, you've got little idea how well or badly a patrol will go. Well, except that as you get into 1942 things start getting much harder. :)
Great game. The four GMT game set, Hunters(still alive), Hunted (sunk first cruise), Silent Victory (sunk mines#11), Beneath the Med(can't find anything to sink😲) are all great!! Got, have not played yet, the Compass cousin. Raiders of the Deep WWI.
Great videos sir. Most excellent.
Thanks Charles! Up next will be Silent Victory, and I'm waiting for my copy of Raiders of the Deep to arrive any day now. Thanks for the heads up about that one. :)
Great series and great job showing how the game plays and the decisions associated to the game! Well done!
Thanks Stuka Joe! I've ordered your solo kit from GMT games too, and will try to make a video showing that once it gets here (probably still a few months away?). I hope all is well! :)
Excellent game. Excellent Review- spot on! I start all the way from 1939 using the Type VIIA. This game has a lot of agency - first, you decide if you want to attack Day/Night, whether surfaced and submerged, what range do you fire your torpedoes, type of torpedoes you want to fire, do you use AFT of FW tubes, do you want to do take your sub to crush depth to avoid detection, and... there are optional evasive measures you can employ, you decide if you want to go for an unescorted ship or a convoy with an escort, do you go for a tanker or a large freighter, do you want to avoid encounters, do you want to chase a ship if you were unable to sink it with your first salvo? Yes, each decision you make affects how you roll your dice, what modifiers you use. I made a mistake of attacking a convoy at close range and it nearly destroyed my uboat because the escorts kept detecting my Uboat. Oh, you get to level up your UBoat capt, your crew, your doctor, your engineer. This is a very fast game. Not many components involved. Setup and clean up is fast. So yea, this game has tons of agency.
Great points! I totally agree, with the caveat that there are elements in the game that can take you out even if you make all the right decisions. There are certain points where you're just going to die if the die rolls don't go in your favor. I'd argue this is very much an element of the nature of submarine warfare in WW2 as well, at a certain point you're playing the odds and hoping for the best. :)
As to agency - how much agency did a U-Boat captain actually have? They didn't choose their patrol areas for the most part, or whether or not they got a wolfpack onside. I felt like it's done a good job of representing the *actual* decisions a U-Boat captain would get to make.
I think I'm thinking more of the tactical level agency than the operational level. I probably should have explained that more clearly.
After watching both of your series, I went ahead and P500'ed Silent Victory :) Probably we'll be getting American Tank Ace soon too!
Here's to hoping that Silent Victory can make it through the P500 process quickly! I know a lot of people are hoping to get it and/or The Hunters. Good choice! I think American Tank Ace is very close to shipping, or has started shipping. I'm interested to see how the system extends to tank combat. :)
Superb review.
At first I was also into thinking the game should use little bit more of decision agency but now I actually respect how it is set up. There are always mods that you can get if you need the extra agency.
I actually like the Spartan way the game art is designed more and more. It comes down to personal tastes of each individual player in the end.
It is a classic indeed. The whole series should get a reprint/remke. Luckily I bought all in time before they ran out of stock.
Totally agree. The streamlined nature of play that still generates variety and tension is brilliant, and I'd hate to see a ton of features get added that double the playing time. :)
Great review ZB. You addressed the agency "issue" very well I thought. I'm forever responding to that perception and now I can just point them to this review. :)
Thanks, Uwe! I'm glad it made sense. It's an interesting question with the game. I'm very happy with what they've done with the game! :)
Great review! I liked your patrol videos so much I hunted down all four games! Just finished a campaign from Sep 39 to Oct 44 and it was a hoot! The Oct 44 patrol ended much like your 13th patrol. The time frame when things go from bad to worse is pretty much spot on. One source counted Mar 43 as THE month when the balanced shifted. The Nazis claimed 34 ships while losing 41 U-boats.
One of the things I like and hate is the randomness that pops up from time to time. Such as getting Superior Torpedoes on the first transit box then never sighting a ship or convoy for the rest of the patrol! Frustrating but fun! Time to do another campaign for the Med or the Pacific!
Thanks, Jim! That sounds like a great success if you made it all the way through The Hunters and into The Hunted. Yes, I've seen some of the numbers on the second half of 1943 and 1944 and they are brutal. Not a time to be in a U-Boat!
I like the randomness and variety that the game spawns too. For such a smooth playing game, it generates so many unique outcomes. Good luck in your next campaign!
Thanks for the excellent and fair review. Compass Games will be releasing Atlantic Sentinels sometime next year. This will be a companion game to The Hunters. This time you will be protecting allied convoys against U boat attacks. There is also a chance that Greg Smith will redo The Hunters.
Thanks, Michael! That's great news about Compass Games. I've seen a number of spin offs of the genre available on their site too, and have ordered the World War 1 U-Boat game from them last week. A reprint/remake of The Hunters would be fantastic as well. It's hard to find now. :)
@@ZillaBlitz Raiders of the Deep is an outstanding game. It has political features (cruiser rules), and prize (capturing) rules. The target roster is one of its outstanding features. Enemy ships are listed chronologically (1914-1918). You won't regret adding it to your collection. It's one of my favorites. Best wishes.
Loving this series - Yep still catching up ha ha. Really is a well made game with so many decisions to make and all the actions possible. U-Boats had no actual say in where they patrolled for example so I think this so far has captured that well.
Yes, for sure. I think the agency area I'm thinking of is in some of the battle tactics and decisions, not so much the patrol zones issues. I probably wasn't very clear on that. :)
Excellent over view of the game, hopefully someone a GMT has seen it and will issue another reprint asap.
I wonder if the rights to a reprint lie with the designer? These came out as a Consim Press/GMT game, and I'm not sure if Consim Press is a thing any more? Most of the Consim links are dead and their Facebook page hasn't been updated since May of 2020.
Just ordered this game and so looking forward to playing it.
Nice! It's such a fun experience. I hope you enjoy it too. :)
Keep up the awesome videos, as a kid I bought some games, like Air Cav, Fire Power, ASL, and honestly was way to young. But now much older and watching your videos is getting me back in to this style of games.
Thanks! I've really enjoyed getting back into tabletop games. I like computers but too much of my day is spent sitting in front of them. :)
Great game ans great review ! Keep up the good work !
Thanks, Solkills! Thanks for stopping in. :)
Well done I’m glad you addresses the agency aspect I have placed enemy coast ahead and felt it told a story as opposed to being a solitaire game. Although it is. A great game. Not much replay ability Again great job
Thanks, Marc! I'm comfortable with the balance they strike between agency and fate in these games, and am curious on Enemy Coast Ahead. I hope to get that one to the table earlier next year.
Great analysis of a superb game! I particularly enjoyed your discussion regarding agency. I've always felt that the designer -- in creating the possibility of disparate moments during which your Kapitain either has influence, or none at all -- accurately simulates the reality of battle. There's always just enough room for informed decision-making (increasing your odds of success), but never without the risk of disaster as a result. Fate is a cruel mistress indeed. I do think, though, that an integrated mechanism for resource allocation (even as an optional rule) throughout a patrol could have bumped up agency somewhat. Nonetheless, The Hunters scores a direct hit in terms of creating an (ahem) "immersive" naval warfare experience.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the review. :) I do think the agency element, as you mention, is a good fit for the game, and the idea of a mechanism for resource allocation would be interesting to explore. Thanks for stopping in!
Loved this series! Keep up the good work. I see Heart of Darkness on the shelf, How is it?
Thanks, reptar! I did an unboxing on Heard of Darkness a while back, but haven't gotten it to the table yet for a playthrough. I really should bump it up in the list, it looks quite good as a solo game too.
You know every game that involves dice rolls there's a certain kind of 'gambling' involved. But as you explained, even that comes with a certain amount of tactics. Risk and reward, I guess. And yes, sometimes everything will go wrong and sometimes everything will go right. I don't think it's fair to say it takes away player agency, it is just a different method of implementing agency and having to live with the coices you made. Kind of like playing CK3 in Ironman mode 🤣
That's very true, isn't it! CK3 has those moments when you get total disasters as children and then your whole kingdom goes sideways on you and you lose EVERYTHING. :)
Reviews that don’t show the actual game are sort of a bummer
Yep, I agree. This was one of my earlier reviews, and I try to add more gameplay footage in more recent reviews. I will point out that I have a 13-part series on the game showing hours of gameplay, though:
th-cam.com/video/dRbiiaGVRN0/w-d-xo.html