_NOTE: Wrote this list at the part in the beginning when invited to make a list, before watching they rankings of the guys._ As you say, I would play all of these games - and the ranking here is even hard in terms of favorites. I put *Cuba Libre* first because I've played it the most (23 times), so even though I enjoy some of the added twists of the other games in the series, I can't deny how much replayability I've found there, and I feel it's earned it's spot. *A Distant Plain* on the other hand, I haven't played as much, but I find the way the factions interact so intriguing. It's odd in a way that this is so high in my rankings, as I don't feel I've explored it as much as a second place position would deserve, but this one just tickles my brain in such a strong way. This list is as much about desire to re-play as anything else, and this has that strong pull. *Andean Abyss* has the draw of Cuba Libre, but on a bigger scale, and in that regards I almost feel the draw to play it more than Cuba Libre (because I haven't been able to play it as much, and enjoy the extra space and units... but as I say, Cuba Libre earned the top spot). *People Power* has fast risen up the scale. Our first few plays felt very swingy, but on repeated plays (up to 5 games now), we've found the dance, incredibly tense. You really can't mess up here. Every move matters. We've enjoyed playing a game where the government isn't necessarily on a downward spiral. If anything they are going to take the game unless you co-ordinate against them. I would have said this is the best starting COIN, except that the balance is so delicate, it might throw off new players. *Liberty or Death* was the first COIN that I played which made combat so central. I wasn't sure I'd enjoy that as much (mathing out the forces, the dice rolling, etc), but that ended up being the special spice that gave it quite a nice flavor once we got the hang of it. Having one faction kind of out of it during the early part of the game is perhaps historically accurate, but maybe isn't the best "game" choice? *Gandhi* could be higher, but I haven't played it as much. Keen to. Loved seeing the pacifist ideas brought over to People Power. One of the best COIN rule books (if not GMT rulebooks) I've read. I hope they adopt more of the methods used in that rule book. *Fire In The Lake* is heralded as many people's favorite. I liked it. But I also didn't "get" it strategically. I have no doubt playing more would change that. This could easily move up the ranks in my desire to play, with more plays. *Falling Sky* . This was an interesting journey. Only played once. We spent most of the game in the rule book. Combat became a strange... burden? I'd say we were not enjoying most of it... but by the end found ourselves very invested. I'd say some of the lights started coming on for us by the end, and we couldn't deny that we were becoming compelled by it. This sits near the bottom, more due to the fact that we know each play would require noses-in-rule-books more than actively playing, but the bug bit. I do want to revisit. *Colonial Twilight* . A few plays under the belt, and I just couldn't see how a competent guerilla faction would ever lose. It felt to us like their capacity to gain resources gives them a punitive, reliable advantage, while the government gets jammed up hoping for certain event cards, and to not get thrashed by the initiative order. Remember, this is a VERY subjective opinion, as is this whole list. If you love Colonial Twilight and have not experienced this... it's cool. I'm happy for you. You're having my desired experience with the game. But I didn't have it. Yet. Cuba Libre A Distant Plain Andean Abyss People Power Liberty Or Death Gandhi Fire In The Lake Falling Sky Colonial Twilight Unplayed (but in some stage of learning): The British Way All Bridges Burning Pendragon
I think the key to enjoying a Coin game is to enjoy the topic that it is based on. If you love the topic of the game, you'll enjoy the game. Obviously, if you don't like the topic, I don't think any game can really get you interested in playing a game about that the topic. Thanks for the video
I'm not really a COIN fan ... but yes ... enjoying the theme is the main thing which can convince me to play a 4-player COIN. (my gripes with the system are probably irrelevant for 2 player games). And that's why Falling Sky is the only 4-player COIN I own. ... I had great fun with jovial Asterix inspired humor while playing it. A real beer-n-prezels game.
Nice COIN update. Of the COIN games I have played here is my ranking by most desirable to play 1. Pendragon (played 7 times) 2. Liberty or Death (played 3 times) 3. All Bridges Burning (played once) 4. Cuba Libre (played 4 times) 5. Fire in the Lake (played once) 6. Falling Sky (played twice)
Ranking the games I have played: 1: Falling Sky 2: Liberty or Death 3: Andean Abyss 4: Pendragon 5: All Bridges Burning 6: Cuba Libre (Since it is so similar to Andean Abyss it gets pushed way down, but will never turn down a chance to play) 7: A Distant Plain Ranking "want to play" of the unplayed titles 1: Gandhi 2: The British Way 3: Fire in the Lake 4: Colonial Twilight 5: People Power Bonus: Ranking interest level of the 5 on P500 1: China's War 2: Red Dust Rebellion 3: The Pure Land 4: The Guerilla Generation 5: A Fading Star
I would give Falling Sky another try. It's my favorite, super fun negotiation especially if you play Aedui, a lot punchier with devastating moves and because the map is smaller, every location is fought for, makes it a lot more interesting/exciting. It also doesn't have some of the rally loop that the other COINs get stuck in
Haven't played them all yet, but my rankings are: A Distant Plain Falling Sky Fire in the Lake Colonial Twilight The British Way Cuba Libre Andean Abyss Gandhi All Bridges Burning I own but haven't played People Power
I find them very addictive and don't mind which one I play. Found it difficult to put in some form of order, but came up with the following. 1. Pendragon 2. Liberty, 3. Falling Sky, 4. The British Way, 5. Gandhi, 6. All Bridges Burning, 7. Andean Abyss, 8. Cuba L;bre 9. Fire in the lake, 10. Colonial Twilight, 11. A Distant Plain & People Power.
As I clicked on the video, I recieved an email that my copy of Fire in the Lake is on it's way! Fate, destiny, serendipity, I don't know. Lifelong wargamer, first time COIN player. I'm ready to dive deep in Nam with my buddies, blasting some CCR in the background! ✌☮ Thank you guys for all you do for the hobby! Happy gaming!
From what I have played; Falling Sky (with the expansion) Pendragon Cuba Libre Fire in the lake Andean Abyss A Distant Plain red dust will probably enter after Pendragon, then it comes out
I was just thinking to myself a few days ago, "I hope they do a ranking of ALL the games soon, now that I have every single one too!". I went from none to all in a little over a year. And you delivered! This will be a good episode, I'm sure!
I pretty much stick to antiquity and medieval games so Falling Sky and Pendragon would be my #1 and #2. Pendragon was my first coin system and many people tell me if you play coin, Pendragon should not be the first game you play lol! I loved it!
From what I own, ranked: 1. The British Way 2. All Bridges Burning 3. Andean Abyss 4. People Power 5. Gandhi Could change tomorrow, but TBW is so relevant right now, it's almost a thesis paper in a game.
I have not played that many but I love love Cuba Libre. Got it when it came out originally as I loved the theme. This was years ago and while my group would play heavy games this was too confrontational. I sololed and loved the system. Got tempted but never bought. P500 All Bridges Burning as my partner is mostly Finnish and supposedly not to hard. I also P500 People Power as it was an easy to learn. It was .With I have been able to convert 3 new people to COIN. So maybe I can get more plays in. 1.Cuba Libre 2. People Power 3. British Way 4. All Bridges Burning. I have P500 reprints 1. Gandhi 2. Distant Plain 3. China's War
I just started my COIN collection. So far I only have Fire in the Lake with both expansions and Liberty or Death. I play Andean Abyss on rally the troops and finally won a game with the cartel. This series has me also already collecting all the Levy and Campaign series as well in my collection.
Thanks guys! Been looking for an update on this for a while. A little surprised that the British Way was so high and CT was so low for you both. Clearly I need to get over my Fire in the Lake hesitation.
Fantastic content! Thank you both. I have played Andean Abyss on Rally the Troops, but that is my only venue for getting a COIN game played. Very interesting hearing your rankings!
Thank you for the updated ranking. Since watching you’re first ranking video I decided to start with Cuba Libre. I now have four more volumes and am grabbing every one I can get my hands on (not an easy task here in Australia). I would have to agree that the games at higher player count are generally more enjoyable as you go from best friends with your ally to now it’s time to stab you in the back. A fantastic system that just keeps on giving!
Great video! COIN is my favourite series. My ranking (with tiers marked "---"): 1. The British Way 2. Fire in the Lake 3. Liberty or Death 4. Cuba Libre --- 5. Andean Abyss 6. Ghandi 7. A Distant Plain 8. Falling Sky --- 9. Colonial Twilight 10. People Power --- 11. All Bridges Burning (Pendragon unplayed)
Great video guys! I've used Colonial Twilight to introduce COIN to others. This was before The British Way came out but I feel both are good entry games as well as Cuba Libre.
46:55 For this Newb that just started COIN with CL I wouldn't have suggested starting anywhere else, but now that Vol 2 of GMT's Irregular Combat Series is out "A Gest of Robin Hood" I would go there first. Then CL. Following my interests lead next to LoD as my second purchase and I had to set that defer that to the Grown Ups Table for the present. Then was curious to see the latest entry PP to see how much had changed from Vol 2 to Vol 11, it is swingy to start with, but it introduced me to more COIN mechanics in an easy to follow way. CT is still a little too hard and instead am now tackling AA which seems CL is to it what Red Sea: Conflict in the Horn Of Africa is to Twilight Struggle. I have to wonder if CL wasn't purposely crafted for that purpose. -Least to most complex (Not worried about my interest level as it increases once I get into each game) -- A Gest of Robin Hood - -Cuba Libre - -People Power (just to learn the additional COIN mechanics) - -Andean Abyss - On my to try next list: --All Bridges Burning --The British Way (when I find a reasonably priced copy) --Colonial Twilight --A Distant Plain --Falling Sky -- Gandhi - Then when I'm ready for something meatier - Fire in the Lake - Liberty or Death --Pendragon (again when I find a reasonably priced copy) Thanks for the video guys, I've come back to it many times and look forward to your next one. Side note it also really helped me to learn basic strategy by playing all factions as the bots.
Great update and much awaited indeed! Well done guys! I only own FitL (which becomes even better with Fos, definitely getting SoD when able) and ABB and I agree with your assessment for both of them. I think I'd go for Pendragon if I could buy another one, I am so intrigued by your presentation. As a mostly solo player I'd say the card based bots also add variability and make it more interesting since the NP factions will act in unpredictable ways often enough.
Like this Series a lot, great entertainment and expertise, thx T-P-A. Got 9 of 12 / played - none,because of my tasteless gaming group :) My first Coingame hopefully will be Cuba Libre, then Fire in the Lake and then Liberty or Death.
Finally the Update!!! 🎉 Thx guys. From the ones that I've played: Fire on the Lake Distant Plain Cuba Libre People Power Gandhi Colonial Twilight British Way Liberty or Death Andean Abyss All Bridges Burning
Thank you very much for your kind comments guys! See you in a couple of years from now when China's War, Red Dust Rebellion etc. are out... you're going to have to get yourself a wider table, and back the camera up a bit.
The very reason you ranked Colonial Twilight lower is why I got this game. I am having serious trouble finding even a single opponent so a three-player game is a luxury and a four plus player game is a once-a-year kind of event. I wish I had more people to play games with, but I don't, and even then they are quite conservative about the type of game they prefer (thematic, classic euro). Sigh...
Been looking forward to this retake. I found it interesting that my tastes here are closer to Alexander's, where I expected them top be closer to Grant's. Although I (probably, today) concur with FitL at the top of the list. But obviously I am way less of a COIN-head than you guys, having only played 6 of them.
Grant!! I am with you buddy. It bothers me far more than it rationally should that People Power does not have the volume number on it! It has to be said while GMT do great games, they struggle with consistency in their art department compared to some other publishers.....
Andean Abyss - Most played with others prob has an effect. Liberty or Death - Love the team v team aspect, and I was a playtester so I am sure that colors my vison. Fire in the Lake - Love the way factions interact. Falling Sky - Barbarians are a cool constant threat. Ghandi - Have yet to play a full game so could change. Have yet to play the others, outside of playtesting Colonial Twilight and I hold my tongue on that.
Love these! My ranking: Pendragon Falling Sky Liberty or Death Fire in the Lake Andean Abyss All Bridges Burning Gandhi Cuba Libre People Power Colonial Twilight Have ADP on p500 haven’t played it or The British Way yet.
@@FabioSpelta Firstly, I enjoy the historical period and geographic area. Second, I find the 3 player eligibility system to be less constrained and predictable than the 4p one (again, for what little I played of those). Third, it's easier to get 3 players than 4 (even factoring in complexity), which increases playability, at least for me. Fourth, the NPC factions provide competing interest that have long-term ramifications, making long-term strategies a necessity rather than a good idea only. Fifth and final, the three factions feel more distinct amongst them then a typical four-faction COIN system (which has usually one COIN, 1 to 2 insurgent behaving somewhat similarly, and an oddball).
I haven't gotten to British Way yet, and am still on the fence about getting People Power. For the rest, my ranking would be: Fire in the Lake A Distant Plain Colonial Twilight Pendragon All Bridges Burning Andean Abyss Liberty or Death Cuba Libre Falling Sky Gandhi I'd happily play any of them and would likely repurchase at least through Liberty or Death if I had to replace them for some reason.
1. Liberty or Death 2. All Bridges Burning 3. Colonial Twilight 4.Cuba Libre 5. Ghandi 6. Falling Sky 7. Andean Abyss Owned but unplayed - Pendragon, People Power Wanted - The British Way
My ordering: 1. Liberty of Death (best at 2p, no bots) 2. Fire in the Lake 3. Gandhi 4. Cuba Libre 5. Pendragon 6. People Power 7. Colonial Twilight 8. All Bridges Burning 9. A Distant Plain (only one I don’t like) Unplayed: British Way Falling Sky Andean Abyss
4 Player: 1. Falling Sky 2. Andean Abyss 3. Gandhi 4. Pendragon 5. Cuba Libre 6. A Distant Plan 7. Fire In The Lake 3 Player: All Bridges Burning 2 Player: Liberty or Death( Colonial Twilight Looking forward to Mars version.
Does GMT take pitches from the public for new potential COIN subjects? I would love to see a COIN game of the Northwest Rebellion of 1885 in Canada. Gabriel Dumont's goal of political independence for the First Nations people works both with and against Louis Riel's objectives, with him seeing himself as a kind of Messiah of the Metis. Then you have the Government trying desperately to get troops from Ontario across the Canadian Shield, and the Canadian Pacific Railway building the infrastructure to move those troops and keep their heads above water financially.
1)Liberty or Death - Might not be the best as it's fairly divisive among the people I've showed it to but it's easily my favorite. I love the theme, the factions, the map, traversal, and the art. 2/3) A Distant Plain/Fire in the lake- ADP was my intro to the series and I still adore it. I find it weird how relatively little fan fare it gets compared to its younger brother FitL as I find them to be extremely similar mechanically. I might prefer ADP because it's slightly streamlined but I still really enjoy the latter too. This might change after I incorporate the expansions. 4)Gandhi- This one feels the most different to me and I still can't quite grasp the strategy but every game gets better and better. I'm eager to try it again. 5)Pendragon- I think it's simultaneously the best and worst game in the series as the theme and uneasy alliances are top notch, but it's fiddled down by wayyyy too many unnecessary rules and distinctions (why call invader resources renown? just call them resources like everyone else) 6/7) Cuba Libre/ People Power- They're simpler games in the series, meaning I don't quite enjoy them as much as the grander ones, but they're still excellent teaching tools and also a ton of fun when I want a relatively short game. 8)All Bridges Burning- Tbh I only played it once and barely understood it as my friend didn't give the greatest teach, but it was certainly interesting. I hear some rumblings about a balance issue but I can't speak to that. Hopefully I can play it again soon. 9)Falling Sky- Again, only played once but it was a bit too combat heavy for my tastes and didn't really feel like a COIN game to me. Would happily try again though. 10)Colonial Twilight- It honestly plays better than the ranking would have you believe, but I just fundamentally don't like the concept of a 2 player COIN. Half the fun is maneuvering around several rivals and making and breaking soft alliances. Turning it into a zero sum 1 v 1 works fine, but I have other games I'd rather play for that. ??) Andean Abyss/British Way- I still haven't played them. Maybe some day.
I've never played a COIN game. I did have Fire in the Lake once because I am interested in the Vietnam conflict. I'd also be interested in A Distant Plain and The British Way. I sold Fire in the Lake because it seemed daunting AND I didn't think I'd be able to play it solo. I'd be interested in how Fire in the Lake, A Distant Plain and The British Way play solo.
I got Falling Sky for Christmas. I love it, I’m playing solo, just playing all factions. It’s great I keep it out and play every day. I can’t image having all of them. How do you have time to play all these games?
If I ever play a Coin game it'll be making up the numbers, with a lot of coaching and if I'm lucky finishing last without annoying anyone else whose playing. They all look sort of interesting.
Have you guys played the full 1961-75 scenario for Fire in the Lake yet? My friend and I are planning on doing it, but we’re probably going to break it into 2 sessions because it seems like it’s going to take a good 12-16 hours to do.
My ranking would be 1. Fire in the Lake 2. Liberty or Death 3. Andean Abyss 4. The British Way 5. Cuba Libre 6. A Distant Plain 7. Gandhi 8. Colonial Twilight 9. All Bridges Burning 10. People Power 11. Pendragon 12. Falling Sky
I’ve only played 3(each one time) but I’ve enjoyed them all. Fire in the Lake Cuba Libre The British Way I have and want to play Liberty or Death A Distant Plain Colonial Twilight Better experience with these than most negotiation specific games I’ve played and I love the history you learn as you play.
I only own FITL and have just ordered LoD. I enjoy the history of those two periods. Haven't gotten FITL to the table but am thinking LoD may be the way to dive in. Have zero interest in Cuba Libre so starting with that isnt an option.
Still watching the video, but most themes attract me. Yet, my main challenge is to find players to play in my area (Treasure Coast, Florida), so I need to prioritize solo games. Which ones you recommend are best for solitaire playing please? Anyone's thoughts are appreciated.
For solo play look into Gandhi, Fire in the Lake, and other newer ones. Specifically you're looking for the ones that have mini card deck based solo bots, they're more dynamic and interesting than the older style flow charts. Also, get yourself onto Rally The Troops! it's free and there's tons of players for Andean Abyss. So at least you can do that one easily.
My personal list would be: Fire in the Lake All Bridges Burning People Power Andean Abyss A Distant Plain Liberty or Death Gandhi Colonial Twilight The British Way Cuba Libre Falling Sky Pendragon with I suspect my low opinion of Pendragon being the most heretical opinion (I really dislike the repetitive diciness of the raiding, don't like the banded victory conditions of the Civitates). I should try replaying it to see if I bounced off it for bad reasons, and if I somehow missed what people loved.
My ranking (only ones I’ve played): #1 FitL: Love the time period, bots, balance, just wonderful #2: Falling Sky, frustrating as all heck, but I learn so much about a time period #3: Twilight Struggle, learned a lot, the two player element is so intense/unforgiving #4: Pendragon. Thought it’d be higher, but just frustrating to play barbarians…maybe I don’t know how to play? Would love to try AA, G, and LoD, and have TBW but haven’t gotten around to it.
They should do LotR and Starwars coin. The Pure Land looks great how long does it take coin games to go from made the cut to shipping? I assume quicker than most bc they’re coin games. Thx, Jesus bless✝✌
I have only three. Colonial Twilight. Three attempts to get a 1/3 of the way thru the deck. At end brain hurts but loved it. Bought because two player. Andean Abyss. Not attempted yet. Its on my must play soon list. Bought cause three player n more likely to be able play solo. Lots of vids to watch. The British Way. Why? Malaya. A book i read YEARS ago said i had to get this. Will be played 2024. Promise. Note 2024 is real close too. Terminology. that's what I had the most problems with and struggled through. Colonial twilight - I realized their whole set of new terminology for similar things with different names in other games led to... Misinterpration. When I do go back I will be prepared. Hopefully. Doubt I'll buy any others. Old age n funds being more limited...
Just paused. I’m sad to see ABB towards the end I assume is the lower side. It’s VERY different and maybe too much chrome but is a very cool narrative, more than others. FITL is super awesome though I agree! People power has grown on me with an additional play but ABB speaks to me thematically more.
I wouldn't solo any of these, at this point, I'd buy an actual solo game. I love COIN so much at max players that it just cannot deliver an experience I find satisfying solitaire.
What about non-GMT COIN games? 43 - 45: The Showdown says that it is a two player coin game. My only other coin game is Pendragon so I don't know if it really fits in here.
On a separate note, I find it funny how divergent opinions are on the weight of these games. I genuinely can't see what is so complicated about Fire in the Lake, as 3/4 of the factions are nearly identical to their counterparts in ADP and there aren't any special twists or phases that mix up the game besides a couple special rules for Laos and Cambodia. Meanwhile I find Gandhi to be extremely heavy and nobody really comments on it despite the rulebook being twice as long as other games. Pendragon is easily the heaviest though.
@@ThePlayersAid I see. Let's see how much extra stuff in addition to the COIN basics Red Dust Rebellion has. I like that every COIN Game tries something in terms of mechanics and not just switches out the setting.
The British guy is interested in the Brits fighting the Romans, the US guy loves more the US Indepence game. Both love the Vietnam analysis and none of these 2 is interested in the Roman wars versus Ambiorix (which is our most known historical figure in Belgium over here… 😜). It ILLUSTRATES extemely well, why I really don’t love any COIN game. Lack of historical angle… i played CL and it never got under my skin. It hardly revealed any historical information and it seemed simply a Euro game. I have brought Falling Sky to the table solo and never played more than 2-3 turns with a bot that was very tedious to play. And I LOVE John Butterfield btw. So no thrills here… Give me Atlantic Chase or the DDay series or Enemy Action games.
![THE TOYS x NONT TANONT - ดอกไม้ที่รอฝน (spring) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pPa1d5cC8M4/mqdefault.jpg)
_NOTE: Wrote this list at the part in the beginning when invited to make a list, before watching they rankings of the guys._ As you say, I would play all of these games - and the ranking here is even hard in terms of favorites.
I put *Cuba Libre* first because I've played it the most (23 times), so even though I enjoy some of the added twists of the other games in the series, I can't deny how much replayability I've found there, and I feel it's earned it's spot.
*A Distant Plain* on the other hand, I haven't played as much, but I find the way the factions interact so intriguing. It's odd in a way that this is so high in my rankings, as I don't feel I've explored it as much as a second place position would deserve, but this one just tickles my brain in such a strong way. This list is as much about desire to re-play as anything else, and this has that strong pull.
*Andean Abyss* has the draw of Cuba Libre, but on a bigger scale, and in that regards I almost feel the draw to play it more than Cuba Libre (because I haven't been able to play it as much, and enjoy the extra space and units... but as I say, Cuba Libre earned the top spot).
*People Power* has fast risen up the scale. Our first few plays felt very swingy, but on repeated plays (up to 5 games now), we've found the dance, incredibly tense. You really can't mess up here. Every move matters. We've enjoyed playing a game where the government isn't necessarily on a downward spiral. If anything they are going to take the game unless you co-ordinate against them. I would have said this is the best starting COIN, except that the balance is so delicate, it might throw off new players.
*Liberty or Death* was the first COIN that I played which made combat so central. I wasn't sure I'd enjoy that as much (mathing out the forces, the dice rolling, etc), but that ended up being the special spice that gave it quite a nice flavor once we got the hang of it. Having one faction kind of out of it during the early part of the game is perhaps historically accurate, but maybe isn't the best "game" choice?
*Gandhi* could be higher, but I haven't played it as much. Keen to. Loved seeing the pacifist ideas brought over to People Power. One of the best COIN rule books (if not GMT rulebooks) I've read. I hope they adopt more of the methods used in that rule book.
*Fire In The Lake* is heralded as many people's favorite. I liked it. But I also didn't "get" it strategically. I have no doubt playing more would change that. This could easily move up the ranks in my desire to play, with more plays.
*Falling Sky* . This was an interesting journey. Only played once. We spent most of the game in the rule book. Combat became a strange... burden? I'd say we were not enjoying most of it... but by the end found ourselves very invested. I'd say some of the lights started coming on for us by the end, and we couldn't deny that we were becoming compelled by it. This sits near the bottom, more due to the fact that we know each play would require noses-in-rule-books more than actively playing, but the bug bit. I do want to revisit.
*Colonial Twilight* . A few plays under the belt, and I just couldn't see how a competent guerilla faction would ever lose. It felt to us like their capacity to gain resources gives them a punitive, reliable advantage, while the government gets jammed up hoping for certain event cards, and to not get thrashed by the initiative order. Remember, this is a VERY subjective opinion, as is this whole list. If you love Colonial Twilight and have not experienced this... it's cool. I'm happy for you. You're having my desired experience with the game. But I didn't have it. Yet.
Cuba Libre
A Distant Plain
Andean Abyss
People Power
Liberty Or Death
Gandhi
Fire In The Lake
Falling Sky
Colonial Twilight
Unplayed (but in some stage of learning):
The British Way
All Bridges Burning
Pendragon
I think the key to enjoying a Coin game is to enjoy the topic that it is based on. If you love the topic of the game, you'll enjoy the game. Obviously, if you don't like the topic, I don't think any game can really get you interested in playing a game about that the topic. Thanks for the video
I'm not really a COIN fan ... but yes ... enjoying the theme is the main thing which can convince me to play a 4-player COIN. (my gripes with the system are probably irrelevant for 2 player games).
And that's why Falling Sky is the only 4-player COIN I own. ... I had great fun with jovial Asterix inspired humor while playing it. A real beer-n-prezels game.
Yep, that’s where I’m at. Fire in the Lake is easily a top-3 game for me, but COIN is certainly not insta-buy for me.
Sovereign of Discord just put Fire in the Lake into the stratosphere for me. Gearing up for an epic game using it and Fall of Saigon.
I've only got Fall of Saigon but if Sovereign of Discord is just as good then FitL will be right at the top for years to come.
Nice COIN update.
Of the COIN games I have played here is my ranking by most desirable to play
1. Pendragon (played 7 times)
2. Liberty or Death (played 3 times)
3. All Bridges Burning (played once)
4. Cuba Libre (played 4 times)
5. Fire in the Lake (played once)
6. Falling Sky (played twice)
I didn't care for Liberty of Death at all. My favorite is A Distant Plain. Still haven't had a chance to get All Bridges Burning to the table. Puddy R
Ranking the games I have played:
1: Falling Sky
2: Liberty or Death
3: Andean Abyss
4: Pendragon
5: All Bridges Burning
6: Cuba Libre (Since it is so similar to Andean Abyss it gets pushed way down, but will never turn down a chance to play)
7: A Distant Plain
Ranking "want to play" of the unplayed titles
1: Gandhi
2: The British Way
3: Fire in the Lake
4: Colonial Twilight
5: People Power
Bonus: Ranking interest level of the 5 on P500
1: China's War
2: Red Dust Rebellion
3: The Pure Land
4: The Guerilla Generation
5: A Fading Star
Did you mean Fire in the Lake on Fire in the Sky?
@@EdrisLouie Yep sure did. Thanks for the catch. Edited.
I would give Falling Sky another try. It's my favorite, super fun negotiation especially if you play Aedui, a lot punchier with devastating moves and because the map is smaller, every location is fought for, makes it a lot more interesting/exciting. It also doesn't have some of the rally loop that the other COINs get stuck in
Haven't played them all yet, but my rankings are:
A Distant Plain
Falling Sky
Fire in the Lake
Colonial Twilight
The British Way
Cuba Libre
Andean Abyss
Gandhi
All Bridges Burning
I own but haven't played People Power
Omg so excited to watch this friends 🔥🔥 I was hoping you would do another ranking
I find them very addictive and don't mind which one I play. Found it difficult to put in some form of order, but came up with the following. 1. Pendragon 2. Liberty, 3. Falling Sky, 4. The British Way, 5. Gandhi, 6. All Bridges Burning, 7. Andean Abyss, 8. Cuba L;bre 9. Fire in the lake, 10. Colonial Twilight, 11. A Distant Plain & People Power.
Same here. I almost wish there didn’t have to be a bottom of the list. For me, even the ones I ‘like less’ I rank higher than many many other games.
FYI: Falling Skye Ariovistus doesn't make it a 5 player game. The Germans replace the Averni faction.
As I clicked on the video, I recieved an email that my copy of Fire in the Lake is on it's way! Fate, destiny, serendipity, I don't know. Lifelong wargamer, first time COIN player. I'm ready to dive deep in Nam with my buddies, blasting some CCR in the background! ✌☮
Thank you guys for all you do for the hobby! Happy gaming!
From what I have played;
Falling Sky (with the expansion)
Pendragon
Cuba Libre
Fire in the lake
Andean Abyss
A Distant Plain
red dust will probably enter after Pendragon, then it comes out
I was just thinking to myself a few days ago, "I hope they do a ranking of ALL the games soon, now that I have every single one too!". I went from none to all in a little over a year. And you delivered! This will be a good episode, I'm sure!
Thanks for putting this together really enjoyed your insights and enthusiasm for the COIN series
I'm back for my annual (or all 4 years) dosage of COIN games ranking.
I pretty much stick to antiquity and medieval games so Falling Sky and Pendragon would be my #1 and #2. Pendragon was my first coin system and many people tell me if you play coin, Pendragon should not be the first game you play lol! I loved it!
From what I own, ranked:
1. The British Way
2. All Bridges Burning
3. Andean Abyss
4. People Power
5. Gandhi
Could change tomorrow, but TBW is so relevant right now, it's almost a thesis paper in a game.
I have not played that many but I love love Cuba Libre. Got it when it came out originally as I loved the theme. This was years ago and while my group would play heavy games this was too confrontational. I sololed and loved the system. Got tempted but never bought. P500 All Bridges Burning as my partner is mostly Finnish and supposedly not to hard. I also P500 People Power as it was an easy to learn. It was .With I have been able to convert 3 new people to COIN. So maybe I can get more plays in.
1.Cuba Libre
2. People Power
3. British Way
4. All Bridges Burning.
I have P500 reprints
1. Gandhi
2. Distant Plain
3. China's War
I just started my COIN collection. So far I only have Fire in the Lake with both expansions and Liberty or Death. I play Andean Abyss on rally the troops and finally won a game with the cartel. This series has me also already collecting all the Levy and Campaign series as well in my collection.
Thanks guys! Been looking for an update on this for a while. A little surprised that the British Way was so high and CT was so low for you both. Clearly I need to get over my Fire in the Lake hesitation.
Fantastic content! Thank you both. I have played Andean Abyss on Rally the Troops, but that is my only venue for getting a COIN game played. Very interesting hearing your rankings!
OOOohhh I didn't expect this. Thank you guys !!
Thank you for the updated ranking. Since watching you’re first ranking video I decided to start with Cuba Libre. I now have four more volumes and am grabbing every one I can get my hands on (not an easy task here in Australia). I would have to agree that the games at higher player count are generally more enjoyable as you go from best friends with your ally to now it’s time to stab you in the back. A fantastic system that just keeps on giving!
I can't judge as Fire In The Lake is the only one I have and played But I love it.
It's such a missed opportunity that not all COIN games have names of cocktails.
Maybe if "White Russian" had been the first
@@pm71241 my favorite is Mexican firing squad
Great video!
COIN is my favourite series. My ranking (with tiers marked "---"):
1. The British Way
2. Fire in the Lake
3. Liberty or Death
4. Cuba Libre
---
5. Andean Abyss
6. Ghandi
7. A Distant Plain
8. Falling Sky
---
9. Colonial Twilight
10. People Power
---
11. All Bridges Burning
(Pendragon unplayed)
Great video guys! I've used Colonial Twilight to introduce COIN to others. This was before The British Way came out but I feel both are good entry games as well as Cuba Libre.
Thanks for your videos. buy first Coin games (Fire... and Liberty...) Now waiting dilivery)
46:55 For this Newb that just started COIN with CL I wouldn't have suggested starting anywhere else, but now that Vol 2 of GMT's Irregular Combat Series is out "A Gest of Robin Hood" I would go there first. Then CL. Following my interests lead next to LoD as my second purchase and I had to set that defer that to the Grown Ups Table for the present. Then was curious to see the latest entry PP to see how much had changed from Vol 2 to Vol 11, it is swingy to start with, but it introduced me to more COIN mechanics in an easy to follow way. CT is still a little too hard and instead am now tackling AA which seems CL is to it what Red Sea: Conflict in the Horn Of Africa is to Twilight Struggle. I have to wonder if CL wasn't purposely crafted for that purpose.
-Least to most complex (Not worried about my interest level as it increases once I get into each game)
-- A Gest of Robin Hood
- -Cuba Libre
- -People Power (just to learn the additional COIN mechanics)
- -Andean Abyss
- On my to try next list:
--All Bridges Burning
--The British Way (when I find a reasonably priced copy)
--Colonial Twilight
--A Distant Plain
--Falling Sky
-- Gandhi
- Then when I'm ready for something meatier
- Fire in the Lake
- Liberty or Death
--Pendragon (again when I find a reasonably priced copy)
Thanks for the video guys, I've come back to it many times and look forward to your next one.
Side note it also really helped me to learn basic strategy by playing all factions as the bots.
Great update and much awaited indeed! Well done guys! I only own FitL (which becomes even better with Fos, definitely getting SoD when able) and ABB and I agree with your assessment for both of them. I think I'd go for Pendragon if I could buy another one, I am so intrigued by your presentation. As a mostly solo player I'd say the card based bots also add variability and make it more interesting since the NP factions will act in unpredictable ways often enough.
How would you rank these for solo?
thank you
Like this Series a lot, great entertainment and expertise, thx T-P-A. Got 9 of 12 / played - none,because of my tasteless gaming group :) My first Coingame hopefully will be Cuba Libre, then Fire in the Lake and then Liberty or Death.
Finally the Update!!! 🎉 Thx guys. From the ones that I've played:
Fire on the Lake
Distant Plain
Cuba Libre
People Power
Gandhi
Colonial Twilight
British Way
Liberty or Death
Andean Abyss
All Bridges Burning
Thank you very much for your kind comments guys!
See you in a couple of years from now when China's War, Red Dust Rebellion etc. are out... you're going to have to get yourself a wider table, and back the camera up a bit.
The very reason you ranked Colonial Twilight lower is why I got this game. I am having serious trouble finding even a single opponent so a three-player game is a luxury and a four plus player game is a once-a-year kind of event. I wish I had more people to play games with, but I don't, and even then they are quite conservative about the type of game they prefer (thematic, classic euro). Sigh...
Great video guys , would love to see a similar one for CDGs.
thanks
Been looking forward to this retake. I found it interesting that my tastes here are closer to Alexander's, where I expected them top be closer to Grant's. Although I (probably, today) concur with FitL at the top of the list. But obviously I am way less of a COIN-head than you guys, having only played 6 of them.
Looking forward to your ranking of GMT "Irregular Conflicts Series" games, some day...
Grant!! I am with you buddy.
It bothers me far more than it rationally should that People Power does not have the volume number on it!
It has to be said while GMT do great games, they struggle with consistency in their art department compared to some other publishers.....
Andean Abyss - Most played with others prob has an effect. Liberty or Death - Love the team v team aspect, and I was a playtester so I am sure that colors my vison. Fire in the Lake - Love the way factions interact. Falling Sky - Barbarians are a cool constant threat. Ghandi - Have yet to play a full game so could change. Have yet to play the others, outside of playtesting Colonial Twilight and I hold my tongue on that.
Love these! My ranking:
Pendragon
Falling Sky
Liberty or Death
Fire in the Lake
Andean Abyss
All Bridges Burning
Gandhi
Cuba Libre
People Power
Colonial Twilight
Have ADP on p500 haven’t played it or The British Way yet.
Based on the ones I have played:
1 - All Bridges Burning
2 - Cuba Libre
3 - Gandhi
4 - Pendragon
5 - Fire in the Lake
6 - Colonial Twilight
This is interesting, "all bridges burning" is my least favourite. What did you like so much? Just curious
@@FabioSpelta Firstly, I enjoy the historical period and geographic area.
Second, I find the 3 player eligibility system to be less constrained and predictable than the 4p one (again, for what little I played of those).
Third, it's easier to get 3 players than 4 (even factoring in complexity), which increases playability, at least for me.
Fourth, the NPC factions provide competing interest that have long-term ramifications, making long-term strategies a necessity rather than a good idea only.
Fifth and final, the three factions feel more distinct amongst them then a typical four-faction COIN system (which has usually one COIN, 1 to 2 insurgent behaving somewhat similarly, and an oddball).
Would love to see an updated top 10 wargames for each of you :)
I haven't gotten to British Way yet, and am still on the fence about getting People Power. For the rest, my ranking would be:
Fire in the Lake
A Distant Plain
Colonial Twilight
Pendragon
All Bridges Burning
Andean Abyss
Liberty or Death
Cuba Libre
Falling Sky
Gandhi
I'd happily play any of them and would likely repurchase at least through Liberty or Death if I had to replace them for some reason.
Mine in order:
Fire in the Lake
A Distant Plain
Liberty or Death
Falling Sky
Colonial Twilight
1. Liberty or Death
2. All Bridges Burning
3. Colonial Twilight
4.Cuba Libre
5. Ghandi
6. Falling Sky
7. Andean Abyss
Owned but
unplayed - Pendragon, People Power
Wanted - The British Way
My ordering:
1. Liberty of Death (best at 2p, no bots)
2. Fire in the Lake
3. Gandhi
4. Cuba Libre
5. Pendragon
6. People Power
7. Colonial Twilight
8. All Bridges Burning
9. A Distant Plain (only one I don’t like)
Unplayed:
British Way
Falling Sky
Andean Abyss
4 Player:
1. Falling Sky
2. Andean Abyss
3. Gandhi
4. Pendragon
5. Cuba Libre
6. A Distant Plan
7. Fire In The Lake
3 Player:
All Bridges Burning
2 Player:
Liberty or Death(
Colonial Twilight
Looking forward to Mars version.
Great ranking! I’m wondering which would be the best for solo play. My guess would be either Cuba Libre or The British Way.
How do you find time for sleep and work between all that you do for the gaming community? Haha. You guys are the best.....
Does GMT take pitches from the public for new potential COIN subjects? I would love to see a COIN game of the Northwest Rebellion of 1885 in Canada. Gabriel Dumont's goal of political independence for the First Nations people works both with and against Louis Riel's objectives, with him seeing himself as a kind of Messiah of the Metis. Then you have the Government trying desperately to get troops from Ontario across the Canadian Shield, and the Canadian Pacific Railway building the infrastructure to move those troops and keep their heads above water financially.
1)Liberty or Death - Might not be the best as it's fairly divisive among the people I've showed it to but it's easily my favorite. I love the theme, the factions, the map, traversal, and the art.
2/3) A Distant Plain/Fire in the lake- ADP was my intro to the series and I still adore it. I find it weird how relatively little fan fare it gets compared to its younger brother FitL as I find them to be extremely similar mechanically. I might prefer ADP because it's slightly streamlined but I still really enjoy the latter too. This might change after I incorporate the expansions.
4)Gandhi- This one feels the most different to me and I still can't quite grasp the strategy but every game gets better and better. I'm eager to try it again.
5)Pendragon- I think it's simultaneously the best and worst game in the series as the theme and uneasy alliances are top notch, but it's fiddled down by wayyyy too many unnecessary rules and distinctions (why call invader resources renown? just call them resources like everyone else)
6/7) Cuba Libre/ People Power- They're simpler games in the series, meaning I don't quite enjoy them as much as the grander ones, but they're still excellent teaching tools and also a ton of fun when I want a relatively short game.
8)All Bridges Burning- Tbh I only played it once and barely understood it as my friend didn't give the greatest teach, but it was certainly interesting. I hear some rumblings about a balance issue but I can't speak to that. Hopefully I can play it again soon.
9)Falling Sky- Again, only played once but it was a bit too combat heavy for my tastes and didn't really feel like a COIN game to me. Would happily try again though.
10)Colonial Twilight- It honestly plays better than the ranking would have you believe, but I just fundamentally don't like the concept of a 2 player COIN. Half the fun is maneuvering around several rivals and making and breaking soft alliances. Turning it into a zero sum 1 v 1 works fine, but I have other games I'd rather play for that.
??) Andean Abyss/British Way- I still haven't played them. Maybe some day.
I've never played a COIN game. I did have Fire in the Lake once because I am interested in the Vietnam conflict. I'd also be interested in A Distant Plain and The British Way.
I sold Fire in the Lake because it seemed daunting AND I didn't think I'd be able to play it solo.
I'd be interested in how Fire in the Lake, A Distant Plain and The British Way play solo.
I got Falling Sky for Christmas. I love it, I’m playing solo, just playing all factions. It’s great I keep it out and play every day. I can’t image having all of them. How do you have time to play all these games?
If I ever play a Coin game it'll be making up the numbers, with a lot of coaching and if I'm lucky finishing last without annoying anyone else whose playing. They all look sort of interesting.
Have you guys played the full 1961-75 scenario for Fire in the Lake yet? My friend and I are planning on doing it, but we’re probably going to break it into 2 sessions because it seems like it’s going to take a good 12-16 hours to do.
What do you guys do in the real world? I am always fascinated by the varied occupations of different gamers.
Grant is a Town Manager working as the day to day executive in Speedway Indiana.
My ranking would be
1. Fire in the Lake
2. Liberty or Death
3. Andean Abyss
4. The British Way
5. Cuba Libre
6. A Distant Plain
7. Gandhi
8. Colonial Twilight
9. All Bridges Burning
10. People Power
11. Pendragon
12. Falling Sky
Great cover troops.
I’ve only played 3(each one time) but I’ve enjoyed them all.
Fire in the Lake
Cuba Libre
The British Way
I have and want to play
Liberty or Death
A Distant Plain
Colonial Twilight
Better experience with these than most negotiation specific games I’ve played and I love the history you learn as you play.
I only own FITL and have just ordered LoD. I enjoy the history of those two periods. Haven't gotten FITL to the table but am thinking LoD may be the way to dive in. Have zero interest in Cuba Libre so starting with that isnt an option.
Still watching the video, but most themes attract me. Yet, my main challenge is to find players to play in my area (Treasure Coast, Florida), so I need to prioritize solo games. Which ones you recommend are best for solitaire playing please? Anyone's thoughts are appreciated.
For solo play look into Gandhi, Fire in the Lake, and other newer ones. Specifically you're looking for the ones that have mini card deck based solo bots, they're more dynamic and interesting than the older style flow charts.
Also, get yourself onto Rally The Troops! it's free and there's tons of players for Andean Abyss. So at least you can do that one easily.
@@ThePlayersAid Thanks for the suggestions!
My personal list would be:
Fire in the Lake
All Bridges Burning
People Power
Andean Abyss
A Distant Plain
Liberty or Death
Gandhi
Colonial Twilight
The British Way
Cuba Libre
Falling Sky
Pendragon
with I suspect my low opinion of Pendragon being the most heretical opinion (I really dislike the repetitive diciness of the raiding, don't like the banded victory conditions of the Civitates). I should try replaying it to see if I bounced off it for bad reasons, and if I somehow missed what people loved.
My ranking (only ones I’ve played):
#1 FitL: Love the time period, bots, balance, just wonderful
#2: Falling Sky, frustrating as all heck, but I learn so much about a time period
#3: Twilight Struggle, learned a lot, the two player element is so intense/unforgiving
#4: Pendragon. Thought it’d be higher, but just frustrating to play barbarians…maybe I don’t know how to play?
Would love to try AA, G, and LoD, and have TBW but haven’t gotten around to it.
Twilight Struggle ? ;)
Neat, not sure the British way needed a disclaimer though!
It probably didn’t but we wanted to be as clear as possible for people new to the system etc.
They should do LotR and Starwars coin. The Pure Land looks great how long does it take coin games to go from made the cut to shipping? I assume quicker than most bc they’re coin games.
Thx, Jesus bless✝✌
I have only three.
Colonial Twilight. Three attempts to get a 1/3 of the way thru the deck. At end brain hurts but loved it. Bought because two player.
Andean Abyss. Not attempted yet. Its on my must play soon list. Bought cause three player n more likely to be able play solo.
Lots of vids to watch.
The British Way. Why? Malaya. A book i read YEARS ago said i had to get this. Will be played 2024. Promise. Note 2024 is real close too.
Terminology. that's what I had the most problems with and struggled through. Colonial twilight - I realized their whole set of new terminology for similar things with different names in other games led to... Misinterpration.
When I do go back I will be prepared. Hopefully.
Doubt I'll buy any others. Old age n funds being more limited...
But if I bought another, Grant may have sold me on Cuba Libre
Ok. Labyrinth is not a Coin game. I thought it was. Oops. My bad.
Just paused. I’m sad to see ABB towards the end I assume is the lower side. It’s VERY different and maybe too much chrome but is a very cool narrative, more than others.
FITL is super awesome though I agree!
People power has grown on me with an additional play but ABB speaks to me thematically more.
Will you be streaming a Fire in the Lake playthrough anytime soon?
If you guys had to pick one for solo only, which would you pick?!
I wouldn't solo any of these, at this point, I'd buy an actual solo game. I love COIN so much at max players that it just cannot deliver an experience I find satisfying solitaire.
Without seeing these rankings I assume it’s fire in the lake #1. Always fire in the lake.
Always.
What about non-GMT COIN games? 43 - 45: The Showdown says that it is a two player coin game. My only other coin game is Pendragon so I don't know if it really fits in here.
We went with games that are official and I’m the COIN series. Otherwise it’s be endless different games that’d be impossible to collate.
Pauses the vid…..Only played 6 of the 12 sooo here it goes!
Fire in the Lake
Liberty or Death
Cuba Libre
Andean Abyss
Gandhi
Pendragon
I heard you guys will be at SD Con, let's play FitL on Friday, I have a fourth... you in?
Most definitely!
Would you agree that the green faction in Cuba Libre is a bit boring to play? I always felt bad for players who had to control it.
I know why someone might think that but don't personally agree.
On a separate note, I find it funny how divergent opinions are on the weight of these games. I genuinely can't see what is so complicated about Fire in the Lake, as 3/4 of the factions are nearly identical to their counterparts in ADP and there aren't any special twists or phases that mix up the game besides a couple special rules for Laos and Cambodia. Meanwhile I find Gandhi to be extremely heavy and nobody really comments on it despite the rulebook being twice as long as other games. Pendragon is easily the heaviest though.
Is Liberty or Death the most complex one?
No, but it’s on the more complex end of the scale.
@@ThePlayersAidso Pendragon, Fire in the lake, A distant plain, All Bridges Burning and Liberty or Death are the more complex ones, I guess.
@@st0ox pendragon, falling sky, Fire in the lake, Liberty or death are the most complex. Then it’s All bridges burning and Gandhi. For me at least.
@@ThePlayersAid I see. Let's see how much extra stuff in addition to the COIN basics Red Dust Rebellion has. I like that every COIN Game tries something in terms of mechanics and not just switches out the setting.
The British guy is interested in the Brits fighting the Romans, the US guy loves more the US Indepence game. Both love the Vietnam analysis and none of these 2 is interested in the Roman wars versus Ambiorix (which is our most known historical figure in Belgium over here… 😜).
It ILLUSTRATES extemely well, why I really don’t love any COIN game. Lack of historical angle… i played CL and it never got under my skin. It hardly revealed any historical information and it seemed simply a Euro game. I have brought Falling Sky to the table solo and never played more than 2-3 turns with a bot that was very tedious to play. And I LOVE John Butterfield btw.
So no thrills here… Give me Atlantic Chase or the DDay series or Enemy Action games.
Here's an idiosyncratic opinion: I consider Root to be a COIN adjacent game.
It is, without a doubt (we mentioned that in the COIN debrief recently)!
NAVAJO WARS?
Don't see their appeal myself.
No Root on the list