He has changed his serve compared with earlier in his career. He used to do something more similar to Federer, with the racquet head being flicked back and down at the beginning of the toss, whereas now he just throws both arms up together.
Hi John. Great analysis! Tiafoe has been on a tear lately and will be a Top 10 player next week. Have you seen any adjustments or improvements in his serve recently?
Hi and thanks for the feedback. I don't see a change in his technique...he is just maturing as a player and gaining confidence in constructing points and making better decisions. Great to see him moving up! Best, John
Hi John. I never paid attention to his left arm which indeed goes in a very weird position ! I think it's partly why he has shoulders at the same height. Keeping the left arm extended helps to bring that shoulder higher. Elbow very high, there was also Tomic, who has disappeared ! Best.
I think Tiafoe knows how [slightly] unorthodox his serve technic is compared to the fundamentals. Probably his couch knows that too. He gets an average of 122 mph on his 1st serve and he has reached over 137 Mph!
Thanks for your feedback. I am sure he knows. I am less focused on the power than the potential for shoulder injury, as was mentioned during the Laver Cup this year. He had to rehab his shoulder after the AO. However, if Francis can get to 137 without a lot of coil and rotation, maybe he is leaving some additional power on the table too? Thanks, John
Hi John, Great analysis. I suspect Tiafoe's serve was self taught, hence a bit unorthodoxed. Begs the question why his USTA and current coaches have not helped him make adjustments? I am sure you have made this video available to Frances and his staff. I would love to know if you have received a reply. Regards, Allan
Hi Allan, Thanks for your comments and questions. I would be surprised if his team (and USTA) is working on adjustments because they are happy with his performances this year. They probably think making changes is a risk to his confidence and momentum. I have not sent this video to Francis or his team...they may see it here on TH-cam. I tried to assist Nishikori with his serve when he was playing a tournament at our club 4 years ago. His coaching team blew me off. Then he encountered a series of wrist injuries that I predicted. It's tough to crack these teams that pro players have. I also reached out to Anna Ivanovic's team 12 years ago, when she couldn't place the ball on her serve, and it pretty much ruined her confidence and kept her from being a perennial top ten player. Despite several attempts, I never heard back. Oh well...
Tennis is not the same any more, don't put your self into the "usual" standards, more important is to work hard (actually really hard) and you will be better than all those who do their shots technique by the books (plenty of examples in top 100), thanks
Thanks for your feedback and perspective. Important to keep in mind that beneath the various styles among top players is a consistent foundation of skills. Nearly every player with a UTR over 12 has clean technique...there were many more unusual styles and in some cases poor technique among players, even pros in the 60's, 70's and even the 80's. Best, John
Hi and thanks for your feedback and perspective. Totally agree. His range of motion is oddly limited. The high elbow and short motion make for consistent timing, but he leaves so much power on the table, plus the increased possibility of injury. He needs to loosen up! Best, John
I disagree completely with this analysis. It is focused on comparison and not physics. The final components of a serve are similar to a trebuchet. A strong but short motion getting translated through a series of joints and levers to a very fast motion to launch a lighter object. Tiafoe gets a lot of power into his shoulder at that higher angle and with his loose wrist, is able to convert that power into racquet head speed, with a joined whip energy transfer. There's more than one configuration that is effective in doing this.
Thanks Robert for your comments and contribution to the video. I have never heard the comparison to a trebuchet in all my years in tennis. Do you think he is snapping his wrist? I welcome your input. Best, John
@@PerformancePlusTennis His wrist is loose and whips around converting the energy that started in his legs and torso, to move his shoulder. It "snaps" as a result of the rest of his motion. Going to comparisons, look at Kyrgios's serve. He doesn't have a deep shoulder drop either. But he still converts his body motion to racquet head speed. He also has a loose wrist. Can't argue with his serve. Sampras had a very different shoulder motion from any of them. Very deep drop and very rotated. With very powerful leg and torso motion he launched his shoulder but it didn't come anywhere nearly as far forward relative to his head and the rest of his body as Federer or Kyrgios nearly anyone else. Yet he still got tremendous whip (which is racquet head speed). And then brought his shoulder around on his follow through. My point is that whip can be achieved with different motions, different shoulder positions. The shoulder absolutely has to make a powerful move, but those can be somewhat different in angle and trajectory. I also want to clarify, the trebuchet motion itself is not directly comparable to a serve motion. It's the principle of creating a whip effect through a series of hinges that matters. Starting with a high energy, powerful, slower and lower amplitude motion and converting it to a high speed, end effect.
Again, appreciate your comments and perspective. Certainly there are many successful styles, some which are more unique than others. In this case, Tiafoe's serve has unique features. I will argue the idea of "wrist snap" however, which certainly is a myth that has been around forever. The wrist extends (ulner deviation), but it does not snap into and during contact.This is evident on virtually every professional serve. The wrist moves after contact because the energy has to go somewhere, but the ball is gone when this occurs. I have studied this extensively. Go on TennisPlayer.net for more information on this topic. Best, John
Disagree. Lot of coaches bang on WRONGLY about " L " position of serving arm . Bad instruction. Tiaffoe has a L position and this is biomechanically a poor serve . Figures also confirm that. Elbow is terrible. Djokovic has made excellent improvements on his serve. BIIIIIG changes. So it is possible.
Thanks 🙏
You are welcome!
Gorgeous. Can watch this serve all day long
💪💪
He has changed his serve compared with earlier in his career. He used to do something more similar to Federer, with the racquet head being flicked back and down at the beginning of the toss, whereas now he just throws both arms up together.
Hi John. Great analysis! Tiafoe has been on a tear lately and will be a Top 10 player next week. Have you seen any adjustments or improvements in his serve recently?
Hi and thanks for the feedback. I don't see a change in his technique...he is just maturing as a player and gaining confidence in constructing points and making better decisions. Great to see him moving up! Best, John
Hi John. I never paid attention to his left arm which indeed goes in a very weird position ! I think it's partly why he has shoulders at the same height. Keeping the left arm extended helps to bring that shoulder higher. Elbow very high, there was also Tomic, who has disappeared ! Best.
Thanks for your accurate feedback and contribution to the video! Best, John
It's working well at the US Open 2024. He seems to have added more velocity and control.
I think Tiafoe knows how [slightly] unorthodox his serve technic is compared to the fundamentals. Probably his couch knows that too. He gets an average of 122 mph on his 1st serve and he has reached over 137 Mph!
Thanks for your feedback. I am sure he knows. I am less focused on the power than the potential for shoulder injury, as was mentioned during the Laver Cup this year. He had to rehab his shoulder after the AO. However, if Francis can get to 137 without a lot of coil and rotation, maybe he is leaving some additional power on the table too? Thanks, John
Hi John, Great analysis. I suspect Tiafoe's serve was self taught, hence a bit unorthodoxed. Begs the question why his USTA and current coaches have not helped him make adjustments? I am sure you have made this video available to Frances and his staff. I would love to know if you have received a reply. Regards, Allan
Hi Allan, Thanks for your comments and questions. I would be surprised if his team (and USTA) is working on adjustments because they are happy with his performances this year. They probably think making changes is a risk to his confidence and momentum. I have not sent this video to Francis or his team...they may see it here on TH-cam. I tried to assist Nishikori with his serve when he was playing a tournament at our club 4 years ago. His coaching team blew me off. Then he encountered a series of wrist injuries that I predicted. It's tough to crack these teams that pro players have. I also reached out to Anna Ivanovic's team 12 years ago, when she couldn't place the ball on her serve, and it pretty much ruined her confidence and kept her from being a perennial top ten player. Despite several attempts, I never heard back. Oh well...
Tennis is not the same any more, don't put your self into the "usual" standards, more important is to work hard (actually really hard) and you will be better than all those who do their shots technique by the books (plenty of examples in top 100), thanks
Thanks for your feedback and perspective. Important to keep in mind that beneath the various styles among top players is a consistent foundation of skills. Nearly every player with a UTR over 12 has clean technique...there were many more unusual styles and in some cases poor technique among players, even pros in the 60's, 70's and even the 80's. Best, John
Eu senti q preserva mais o ombro.
tbh I really don't like Tiafoe's serve. It's like almost all wrist and elbow
Hi and thanks for your feedback and perspective. Totally agree. His range of motion is oddly limited. The high elbow and short motion make for consistent timing, but he leaves so much power on the table, plus the increased possibility of injury. He needs to loosen up! Best, John
Agree. Serve is terrible.
He clearly shows that the Instruction of L position is not good . His L position is a CATASTROPHE.
I disagree completely with this analysis. It is focused on comparison and not physics. The final components of a serve are similar to a trebuchet. A strong but short motion getting translated through a series of joints and levers to a very fast motion to launch a lighter object. Tiafoe gets a lot of power into his shoulder at that higher angle and with his loose wrist, is able to convert that power into racquet head speed, with a joined whip energy transfer. There's more than one configuration that is effective in doing this.
Thanks Robert for your comments and contribution to the video. I have never heard the comparison to a trebuchet in all my years in tennis. Do you think he is snapping his wrist? I welcome your input. Best, John
@@PerformancePlusTennis His wrist is loose and whips around converting the energy that started in his legs and torso, to move his shoulder. It "snaps" as a result of the rest of his motion.
Going to comparisons, look at Kyrgios's serve. He doesn't have a deep shoulder drop either. But he still converts his body motion to racquet head speed. He also has a loose wrist. Can't argue with his serve. Sampras had a very different shoulder motion from any of them. Very deep drop and very rotated. With very powerful leg and torso motion he launched his shoulder but it didn't come anywhere nearly as far forward relative to his head and the rest of his body as Federer or Kyrgios nearly anyone else. Yet he still got tremendous whip (which is racquet head speed). And then brought his shoulder around on his follow through. My point is that whip can be achieved with different motions, different shoulder positions. The shoulder absolutely has to make a powerful move, but those can be somewhat different in angle and trajectory. I also want to clarify, the trebuchet motion itself is not directly comparable to a serve motion. It's the principle of creating a whip effect through a series of hinges that matters. Starting with a high energy, powerful, slower and lower amplitude motion and converting it to a high speed, end effect.
Again, appreciate your comments and perspective. Certainly there are many successful styles, some which are more unique than others. In this case, Tiafoe's serve has unique features. I will argue the idea of "wrist snap" however, which certainly is a myth that has been around forever. The wrist extends (ulner deviation), but it does not snap into and during contact.This is evident on virtually every professional serve. The wrist moves after contact because the energy has to go somewhere, but the ball is gone when this occurs. I have studied this extensively. Go on TennisPlayer.net for more information on this topic. Best, John
Disagree. Lot of coaches bang on WRONGLY about
" L " position of serving arm .
Bad instruction.
Tiaffoe has a L position and this is biomechanically a poor serve .
Figures also confirm that.
Elbow is terrible. Djokovic
has made excellent improvements on his serve.
BIIIIIG changes. So it is possible.