Just got my RT4K this morning and have a whole pile of tapes to digitize, so this upload’s timing is pretty ideal. This is extremely useful so thanks for another great explainer vid, Bob!
Hi, Was gifted a bunch of VHS tapes containing recordings of Red Wings Playoff games from '97. I wanna digitize them with my new Retrotink 4k but don't have a capture card. What do you recommend?
The Retrotink 4K is the best analog-to-digital solution there is, especially for the cost. However I wish the time base correction did more correction. At places where I paused the original camcorder tape in camera, it will often jump and sometimes even show a quick frame from several minutes ago that for some reason is still in the RT4K's buffer. The RT5X also does this. It doesn't seem to have issues where I paused the recordings on a VHS tape, just old 8mm and Hi8 tapes that were then transferred to VHS. EDIT: I'm gonna try to get a JVC Super VHS as that's how the recordings were made. I currently only have a Mitsubishi S-VHS so maybe it doesn't like JVC recordings I dunno. Wouldn't hurt to have a spare VCR anyway.
@@GameSack lordsmurf once said that Retrotink 5x or 4K are inaccurate since it's a retro gaming scaler, not a Time Base Corrector. I have a decent Panasonic Diga DMR ES-15 as a TBC.
@@JnL_SSBM I'm not sure LordSmurf is entirely wrong about the TINKs, but until Mike implements proper 576i passthrough it's hard for me to test/compare and get accurate results as I only have PAL tapes. I have an actual standalone TBC, and playback wise through when compared to the TINK-5X, it seemed to perform comparably. I'd still love to perform some more robust testing though if a 576i mode comes.
I remember speaking with Mike years ago about the abundant pros of developing a TBC for the Tink 5x-Pro (both for him and for the community). People were already playing with using the 2x-Pro for VHS capture (I was one of them) - and it was good! I already owned TBC hardware but it seemed obvious that with the 5x's increased capabilities, it would be the perfect modern device for added TBC functionality if he was able to swing the focus and time for development because as anyone doing VHS capture or archiving knows, TBCs were (and still) are insanely priced! He was pretty resistant to the idea for quite a while (who else remembers?). But I think enough of us ended up hounding him about it (I definitely kept bringing it up to him haha), he came around and we ended up getting it for our 5x-Pros! Amazing work! Now here we all are a few more years later, the 4K is out and enthusiasts are sitting pretty! My RetroTINK 4K is excellent and it couples well with my other TBC hardware just like my 5x-Pro did (Thanks, Mike!). Also, thank you for the video, Bob! I love deep dives like this - keep up the great work!
Bob! This is a great video! I’m a sysadmin at a library and help with a variety of patron needs, especially VHS to digital conversations, up until this video, there just wasn’t a solution that could be implemented without a substantial amount of staff time, until now! We’ll be able to offer this service again! Genuinely grateful for this!
As someone who used to work in a post house tape room, I really appreciate you covering this. Great results without hunting for costly, bulky and old equipment or spending weeks messing with vapor synth.
Even though I can't afford to get into Retro Gaming or Pro-Level Tape Transfer yet, this is still really informative and entertaining to watch. TH-cam channels such as yourself, MLiG, and MVG really make my mind run wild with different scaler and hardware possibilities!
Can't wait to see your Domesday Duplicator video...btw, the team over at VHS-Decode are in the process of finalizing the MISRC hardware, a successor to the DdD, which will be able to capture multiple streams simultaneously(so manually syncing multiple audio/video captures will finally become a thing of the past).
Besides having to jack into the the VTR/VCR hardware, the separate audio recording and manual syncing process is the main reason I never went with that process. Besides the huge processing times.
I digitized all of my family’s home videos with my TINK 2X mini and HD60 Pro in late 2020. There were lots of signal drops and other issues. Going to redo this project with my TINK 5X and your tips! Thank you!!
Great video! I'm glad we're seeing modern capture techniques like this and domesday. I'll be happy to see us move on from the current "recommended" techniques involving WinXP, huffyuv and insanely priced TBCs.
What timing! I literally used my retrotink 5x to digitize over 100 hours of family videos that were stored on mini vhs. The tink made it so easy that the hardest part was swapping the mini vhs’s out every hour. Glad to see this practical use of the product being covered, especially since I didn’t realize how expensive/ low quality the “home videos digitize” market was.
Had my 5x-pro laying around because of how much retro gaming I do. This video informed me a ton and I'm glad it can "replace" an expensive vintage TBC for something more cost effective for general home use.
just commenting to express my appreciation for your content and ability to cover complicated topics in digestible ways. been interested in VHS digitizing for a while now and i learned more in this video than in countless hours of googling.
Thank you for this guide. I am recording my mom and dad's old home VHS tapes, and I will give them to my dad on a flash drive for Father's Day. Thank you!!!
Bought a retrotink5x last year to transfer my parents wedding, my grandparents wedding anniversary and videos of my brother after we found them when cleaning my abuela's house. Bought a s-VHS player with a built in TBC since their was warping on the top of the picture but now the retrotink5x fixes the warping by its self now. My parents where happy that the tapes are now on the computer since one my mom overwrote the her original wedding tape by mistake so she though it was lost and we don't have anything of my brother digital since he wasn't around in the digital world.
This is extremely timely and helpful! My family was just talking yesterday about how we need to digitize our tapes before they go bad, I realized I could probably do it with the RT4K, and low and behold you posted this only 10 days ago! Thank you!!
I just ordered a Retrotink5x for VHS ripping after getting an HDMI capture card! I'm very excited to try out the TBC in it, especially for tapes you can't buy on DVD!
Seeing this makes me realize I'd love to have a physical media player for my VHS and DVD rips that that emulates scanlines and VHS-style fast-forward and rewind, maybe in a VCR shell/case. It would be great for VHS anime rips in particular.
Emulating VHS fast-forward and rewind would be hard. Well, more that it'd be really CPU-intensive, as doing so would require decoding the video much faster than real-time. The stuttering of digital FF/RW is down to just decoding the rare frames that are compressed using only information within the frame (i-frames). The rest store differences between frames, either between itself and the last i-frame (p-frames), or between itself and the neighbouring i-frames or -p-frames (b-frames).
Thanks Bob! Being a fan of your concise summaries and reasonable methodology, I've been looking forward to this video since that first VHS live stream!
My family has a whole stack of Hi-8 tapes that i promised id digitize years ago, but after a few days playing with a Dazzle, j wasnt satisfied enough to wanna continue, as I'd likely wanna re evaluate my process. Very excited to learn from this video - perhaps I'll finally finish the project!
Wow what a dope video. We make documentaries on VHS here in Prague and have been looking for a better method to transfer. Thanks for the in-depth video!
You mentioned the QTGMC process in one of your titles-that’s generally the best way to handle mixed framerate content like 24p animation with 60i overlays. I’ve used it extensively in my AI upscale of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show.
I have used so many devices to capture vhs and so many suck. My favorites have been a standalone Sony DVD recorder with internal time base correction, a combination of a cheap AV2HDMI dongle with an $11 hdmi capture dongle using QuickTime to record, and a very old windows XP PC using Dazzle usb 1.1 capture have been my go to vhs capture methods among the dozens I’ve tried. This looks very cool but I don’t see myself spending $500+ on a retrotink to digitize vhs tapes. I’m happy to see the analog to digital conversion community still striving for perfection though. Preservation is so important.
Truly appreciate the amount of effort you put into these videos, this is outstanding information and will be a reference for people for years. I have some old tapes I would like to convert and this is probably overkill, but I still enjoyed all the detail.
Bookmarking this for later/ adding to TH-cam engagement with a comment. This is going to be so helpful. God bless you, Bob. Or Beer bless you, if you prefer.
Correcting IVTC issues especially on Anime is especially difficult and often comes down to throwing out individual fields and then scaling the one you keep, or (hopefully) manually matching them with specialized tools, so I wouldn't expect the Retrotink to be able to handle every case. But running it through the Retrotink with no filter and then working on the upscaled output later would still prove very useful for Anime with no HD re-release
Also it should be noted that if you use S-video, be sure to disable 3D Comb Filtering completely in the ADC menu. If left enabled, you'll get a trailing afterimage that can be noticed mostly on fast-moving objects. You don't need 3D Comb Filtering with S-video anyway, so just turn it off.
What an excellent video! I really liked how you highlighted the aspect of time & effort per transferred tape. Personally, I’ve used an old SVHS deck by JVC that has a DV out and then done deinterlacing and upscaling in ffmpeg, and this has definitely meant that I’ve skipped capturing certain tapes completely because the amount of effort required (tranferring files from my MacBook to NAS and then running ffmpeg for half an hour to produce the two H264 files I want).
Yeah, you really experienced the "time" aspect of it all. I can spend a day getting an amazing transfer of a tape...or spend an hour getting an almost-as-amazing version using a TINK. Sometimes it's absolutely worth the effort though! But definitely not always :)
Congratulations on your tips and solutions for RetroTINK. An experience I had with a promotional video that came as bonus media on a CD. The video came in a MOV file that was certainly compressed to fit on the 700mb CD (this CD is from 2001). This video was recorded at 15fps and the promotional video was probably recorded on a digital camera from the 90s, as the song is from 1995. Due to the blurred colors it could be that it was recorded on an analogue camera. very likely. The most interesting thing is that I tried to scale it to HD at 60fps using PC programs and the 15fps effect simply doesn't change. The only software I didn't use was TopazVideo due to my PC being limited and I don't have a dedicated video card. But it's incredible I used 4 video conversion and scaling software and the fps rate doesn't change. I managed to trick this by increasing the speed time which apparently disappeared the feeling of video recorded at 15fps. I even uploaded the video on my channel of this version that I supposedly cheated on. ajajaja.
Great Video Bob. I live in Brazil and an important thing to have in mind if you pretend to digitize VHS with brazilian VCR's, you have to use a VCR that has the option to chage from Pal M to NTSC because as far as i tested scalers wont work correctly with PAL-M signals, it will be in black or whit or all wobbly and no good to watch, so for you to properly capture you will need to set your VCR to NTSC, not all VCR's released in brazil have that option, but lots of them will, in same cases you will need the VCR cotroller to change the video region.
@@sos.gamers Pal N was created in Argentina in 1976-77, Pal M is from 1972, the question would be why not NTSC since Brazil had the monochrome system M, 525 lines 30 FPS, (Brazil's AC is 60 Hz) and changing to a 625 line system would have been very expensive, well, that was due to the intensive advertising campaign Telefunken and Philips carried out in Brazil in 1972, which included colour test broadcasts of popular shows (done with TV Globo) and technical demonstrations with executives of television stations. Another advantage of Pal M is the simplicity of converting to and from NTSC, since only the colour carrier is changed.
Thank you so much Bob for this amazing deep dive. I don't have a capture card and although that's a basic first step, I didn't really know what I would need to attempt this. I have a 5X and have been considering upgrading to the 4K, especially since I've been having trouble getting the firmware updater to recognize the 5X. Your video made me realize with my current setup I'm not quite ready to get the 4K for video capture and I really need to upgrade my computer setup first. After doing that, I do feel I'll have the confidence to digitize some of those old home movies, with this reference in tow.
I've digitized a ton of my VHS tapes, old home videos etc, using Retrotink 5X Pro. Now that I have the Retrotink 4K, I'm almost tempted to go back and try it again. The results were good already.
I'd re-capture just one of your favorite old video tapes and see what you think. You will see a difference...but is it worth re-capturing everything? Probably not, as the RT5x is already great. But who knows, maybe the RT4K will be a great match for your tapes?
Japanese auction sits are a gold mine of cheap high end VCR, I bought a Victor HR-VFG1 which is the japanese equivalent of a JVC hr-9911U in box with boat shipping for $250 CAN.
another minus for the SoundBeast device (and most other devices I've tried in this class) is that is "de-interlaces" by discarding half the frames. You can see this by stepping frame by frame in the comparison section at around 23:37 (press , or . on the keyboard) and the retrotink maintains 60fps while the Soundbeast only steps every other frame. Thank you for uploading the video in 60fps by the way!
@jonrobinson6851 I'm just running composite and stereo into the RetroTink and then HDMI out of that into my capture card, so it's just a basic stereo capture. Not sure if any capture cards are capable of doing surround sound. I know mine can't.
@@jonrobinson6851 I'm using the AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable 2 PLUS. Specifically in the "PC-Free" mode where it just captures direct to an SD card. It isn't the fanciest capture card available, but it works well enough for some basic captures.
I am extremely satisfied with the Retrotink 5X Pro I bought some years ago, it's been delivering on it's promises and I couldn't be happier. The 4K version is bound to be even better and I'm looking forward to see it's capabilities in the future. Perhaps some TH-cam videos got some info on it in great detail, I'll definitely go look for them. Digitalizing analog video seems like a conversion process of VHS tapes to digital media, it would be cooler if it was the other way around to digitalize into analog video. But that's just my take on it. Even better would be if it was possible to simulate a CRT screen using modern hardware and monitors.
The easiest way to record digital video to tape would probably be using an older game console that has analog outputs and can play video files, like a PS3, and recording that through your VCR. You can do the same thing with a Raspberry Pi as well, since they all have composite video outputs, but if your VCR has an S-Video input, the better option would be to use that with a game console
I never would have guessed you would plug Reasonably British like that! Such a sad day for Lordsmurf... his already small business for his overpriced overhyped old school digitization equipment must be in jeopardy!
The comment I was expecting, I've never someone being so mad at Bob and is "uncorrect' way of digitizing. I recall him being mad at the Domesday Duplicator too
There is a reason why pros strife for excellency And reliabilty. If you only do this stuff for your private concerns its one thing but once mass and bigger customers come along your reputation and livelihood are on the line. Cut some slack and appreciate their experience.
Nice video, with one caveat: Even if you're in North America, home camcorders often used 0 IRE rather than 7.5 IRE, so if you're using 7.5 and the shadows are all black, you probably need to use zero.
Oh, really? I had a few VHS and Video8 camcorder tapes to choose from and both seemed more accurate to a CRT when in 7.5IRE. I should look into this more.
This came at the perfect ish time. I just used my tink5x yesterday to transfer a recent tape I recorded over the last year. Gonna now watch this and see if there’s any tips I can use for my next tape
I took a totally different approach to digitalizing my old VHS. I used a Panasonic DVD Recorder as a passthrough device to take advantage of its TBC elements and capture in my PC with an analog capture device (Diamond VC500). I kept everything in 480i to let the upscaling and deinterlacing to the reproducing device. This way I can always take advantage of better upscaling and deinterlacing algorithms that will come in the future, like AI-based upscaling, for example.
Great timing on this video Bob as I’m hoping to backup some old 8mm and vhs tapes. This was super informative. Looking forward to that upcoming archival vid too!
Man this was an excellent video. It just kills me the 4K can't do 576i output yet. :C I had to buy an Intensity Pro 4K to use temporarily to get around that and capture raw interlaced. If that day ever comes, I will immediately slap down all $750.00 for one.
Absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for this. Currently using the 5x pro, but just ordered the 4k tink today and this is going to be perfect for setting up my tape transfers. Do you have profile setup for Japanese tapes? I have them as well, in addition to my NA tapes. Thanks again!
Thanks! For Japanese tapes, I'd just try that same color profile I showed, that should already be loaded on the RT4K's SD card. If that doesn't look right, you'll have to do some more digging. Sorry, I just don't know enough about Japanese tapes to offer more info that that.
Depending on the brand and model, those can actually be great, with their own TBC built in. You're still ended up with MPEG compression on the transfer, which is noticeable in 4K...bu tby no means is that a "bad" solution. I'll demo it in the upcoming video...
I have one ordered currently. I’m really excited to see how my vhs tapes look… I paid a little for my vhs player it has both component and hdmi first VHS player I’ve ever owned with hdmi out
Thank you Bob! I always thought that we can use some of these scalers to digitize vhs tapes & DVDs Also thanks for heads up on your Wednesday Update! I finally was able to order a Retrotink 4K
Every video I see on the RT4K makes me want one more. Looking forward to the OLED CRT video you mention. Curious on what you think of filters like that potentially causing burn in.
Great work Bob, looking forward to the upcoming video. We all know modern screens are pretty bad at upscaling for games, but they are kind of built for handling video content. De-interlacing on the fly can be a bit of a mixed bag so I will de-interlace when digitizing but I personally don't see much reason for storing captures in 1080p or 4K when pretty much everything that plays video can upscale SD on the fly just fine and takes up less storage space. Just my opinion, would love to get more info about capturing in 480i or 480p from either the Tink 5X or 4K, or other methods. VHS decode looks very impressive but also a lot more work to set up and much more time to process.
I agree: If you have the ability to play back lossless 480i, your TV should do it just fine. That said, if you're uploading to TH-cam, Facebook, etc, you should really scale to 1080p or 4K, otherwise they'll apply their terrible deinterlacing and compression.
Does the time base correction fix field alignment? Like would it straighten out the vertical border in the top right corner of the samples at 26:07? Seems like it does based on how the Tink output looks later on but a side by side would have been nice - geometric distortion is in my experience a more commonly encountered flaw than time desync when transferring VHS.
Thank you! And both TINK's have a TBC, however the 4K's TBC can run at both 59.94 and 60. So if you're a video purist, it's a better choice. But both are excellent!
Great video, thanks. In the clips of the 4K & 5x after 26:30 the 4K clips looked a lot better than the 5x ones to me. Would you say this this typical for these devices, or was there some other reason for the difference in quality in this case?
If you’re specifically talking about the TBC test clips of Eurotrip, they’re actually not a good representation of either - I didn’t bother tweaking any settings, as I was ONLY running a TBC test. I probably should have gone back and recorded the full movie again with the pre-configured profiles, but I just used what I already had. The main difference between the two is the RT4K’s more advanced scaling and deinterlacing. It IS better, but the RT5x is still very good.
5:38 - you flip through the Picture Control setting without commenting on what it is or what it does. It controls the noise reduction on JVC decks. - edit = NR OFF - sharp = minimal NR + edge sharpening (causes halos) - soft = heavy NR - auto/norm = standard NR, mostly to remove chroma, some softening may occur (depends on source) The recommendation is either Auto/Norm or Edit -- test with each source to see which looks better. Also, as someone with a bunch of import anime laserdiscs, I wish you hadn't mentioned a different Japanese color standard and then immediately moved on. I had never heard of it. A tutorial on how to compile/install Brovicon would be good, too. A simple interface doesn't mean much if you have no idea how to run it.
I skipped over JVC VCR settings, as that wasn't the focus of the video - Same with Brovicon. You're correct about the JVC settings though and I always leave it at "edit". Here's all the info you'll need on the Japanese color standards: www.retrorgb.com/colour-malarkey.html Brovicon is getting some updates and I'll cover it in detail in the upcoming video. If you want more info, check out the podcast I did with the creator: www.retrorgb.com/discussing-video-conversion-with-simon-aarons.html
Awesome this helped out a ton! I'm getting tired of taking chances with those cheap converters on Amazon. I will look into getting one of the RetroTINKs soon, but are there any specifics that would lead you to recommend one more than the other, like would you recommend the 4K or 5x more? Or is either one just fine? P.S. I'm glad you mentioned Reasonable British, I loved his capture card comparisons too, but I had no idea there were other RetroTINK devices outside of the one he reviewed until I found this video.
Thank you! Both are great, but I'd let your total use case make the decision: Is the 3D comb filter a priority for you? Will you also use it for gaming and watching older video content? Are you a tape transfer shop that wants to give your customers a 4K file? Then the extra money of the RT4K is absolutely worth it. ...but if you're just a casual gamer, or only need 1080p files, the RT5x is more than enough.
I have the JVC HR-S7800U with the built-in TBC, but I have a single tape that slants to the left with it off, and has tearing at the top with it on, where one field is good, but the other is wavy. I had to use the Panasonic unit you have there in passthrough to fix it. It's known as a poor man's TBC. It drops some frames here and there though, but at least it doesn't tear anymore. I use a Hauppauge 1800 with AmaRecTV. Virtualdub keeps losing audio sync after 55 minutes or so, but AmaRecTV has been rock solid. I tried using a scaler before, and it did look impressive, but I want it output as 30fps, interlaced, so I can deinterlace and interpolate to 60 in post. All the upscalers are only outputting at 60, not 30. 😥
I once came across combing artifacts in a PAL movie I recorded from TV (PAL, obviously) in 25p. It was the only time I saw them in a PAL movie. I can't remember now if I got rid of them in full, but I know I used a very CPU-intensive deinterlacer plugin in Virtual Dub in 2003...
@@gamecubeplayer you're right, one has to be precise. A PAL movie recorded from TV, that is, 50i - but should have deinterlaced easily into 25p with 2:2 pulldown, right? That's what I thought, but the combing artifacts were all over the place, so I don't know what the problem was. It was the only instance of a 50i PAL movie I recorded from TV which produced combing artifacts. Have you had any experience with 50i PAL movies?
@@gamecubeplayer could be. What is even weirder then that it was a European movie, so they should have been aware of the problems of 24->50 conversion and opted for the speed-up instead...
I use a HDD/DVD-Recorder with scart in (from my vcr) and hdmi out (to my Elgato HD60S). I really would like to buy the Retrotink 4k, but I would use it too rarely for the price and it would collect dust the most time.
Fantastic video. I feel like there's a niche crowd (based on my random assumption) looking to preserve analog video using a video upscaler/line doubler, and it's great you made such a detailed and informative video for us. I had a general idea of what a TBC does, but this video really helped explained what they do and the results one can expect. I think you've practically convinced me to pick up a Retrotink 5x for my tape conversion. Fortunately my tapes aren't near the level of damage as the one you tested with during the video, so I think other than a small amount of distortion which shouldn't take much away from the conversion, my tapes should be looking great in digital formats. I do have a question. During the 6 way comparison around 7:24, I noticed the RT5x is a bit more washed out than the other captures. Is this due to whatever settings you had the RT5x set to?
Thanks! So, that TBC comparison was ONLY testing the TBC. Setting were all over the place and not a good representation of ANYTHING other than TBC. Sorry about that, I should have specified.
Nice! I use a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle & a separate AVT-8710 time-base corrector. I then upscale in DaVinci. Would be nice to have a single device for all 3 steps.
That's a great setup. If you do this often though, I agree: Use your current setup for direct capture and use the TINK's whenever you just want an HD version.
This is a great video! I wonder how the Tink4K handles color space since SD used the 601 standard and HD/UHD use the 709 color standard. Does the Tink4K correctly convert 601 to 709? Also I noticed Bob using a RGB capture setting rather than YUV? I was curious why since video uses the YUV standard. Lastly, since this is HDMI, how does setting full or partial impact the video levels?
All excellent questions. The TINK should auto-detect and convert 601 to 709 with no issue. And my recording settings were RGB when capturing the TINK's output, as it's outputting 4K in the RGB colorspace. But I'll dig MUCH deeper into capture settings in the upcoming video!
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! I work in TV and film making docs that use archival material. So I have tons of experience digitizing tapes, along with a full TBC analog capture system running on WinXP haha. I dabbled with the 5x on my last feature film as test. Have the 4K and been following the progression of tape capture. Thanks a ton for documenting all this work.
Thank you so much for this video Bob! My conundrum is I have a ton of Sony Video8 analog video camera tapes from the 80s-90s that I recorded and my Camera died and finding a working Video8 camera or VTP is pretty impossible. So many of my teenage videos are locked away for me and it's sad.
Where do you live? Usually getting a working camcorder is not that hard, getting a good one with line TBC will be a little bit more expensive, Camcorders did not get abused like VCRs, most of their defects are due to aging, dried up grease, perished rubber or failed capacitors.
Funny you mention Video 8 - That's the exact format of my home movies that I'm starting to re-digitize! I just bought a Sony Hi8 player that's backwards-compatible. Not cheap, but you can always re-sell it when you're done transferring. It's been working great for me so far. Here's an affiliate link to the exact model: ebay.us/TcKc46
@@RetroRGB I'm a novice just now setting up to digitize about 30 Hi-8 tapes filmed between 1995-2003. I have the same Sony Hi8 recorder that you just purchased! I've tried an old VidBox capture device that I had laying around and used OBS Studio on a Windows 11 computer. The quality I'm getting isn't great. I'm pretty sure that the VidBox is only capturing at half resolution (720x240), which is part of the problem. What capture device do you plan to use? I think the Hi8 tapes are 480 30p. Is that an issue for the RetroTink setup?
Ewent’s Video Grabber is surely a good, cheap alternative. I digitized many tapes with this PC external device and the results are very good for me. Yes, there’s no upscaling (i believe) and not all those RT4K features, but it does the job perfectly for me. And no on-the-fly tape watching on the tv, but great for capturing.
Regarding the comb filter-I’ve been working on an AI upscale model for making NES composite look closer to RGB. It would be interesting to do a comparison.
Bob, another great video. I’m thinking an optimal viewing/settings video for using the Tink 5X and 4K on modern displays is coming? Optimal viewing settings with LD and VHS opposed to archiving I mean.
Thank you! I'd suggest using this exact profile for viewing...but then try adding the CRT Emulation filters. Also, if you have a RT4K and a 120Hz TV, absolutely try the BFI settings too! Each TV will look different, but I think you'll find small effects work really well.
Oh, I forgot: "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing alternates the lines just like a CRT. It's such a cool effect! LOL, TERRIBLE for archiving, but really great for watching.
Excellent. Another reason to buy this. If you are doing a CRT emulation on the RetroTINK in future it would be interesting to see if it can be used to "enhance" video quality of DVDs in any way. A lot of cartoons, TV-shows and concert videos are released on DVD only. Maybe this can bump the quality a bit?
Oh, absolutely! Both the TINK's CRT Emulation is amazing, as well as the "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing. You can make a DVD "feel" like it's running on a really nice CRT. The IVTC stuff is great for true 24p stuff. And if you have a 120Hz TV and the RT4K, the BFI options (especially with IVTC) are pretty impressive!
I would suggest turning the RT4K off completely and back on after upgrading firmware. I've had issues with mine losing one audio channel after upgrading until properly restarted
None of my 3 (PAL) VHS players do RGB via SCART, so you’ll still be doing Composite or S-Video (I haven’t checked if I actually get S-Video out from the SCART ports. Only used composite as of yet). I had no issues using the newly released VHS profile on my RT4k. (I only had to switch from S-Video input to Composite). It looks great, and when I side-by-side compare the image on my Panasonic TX-65EX780 with the one on my B&O MX 7000, it looks almost identical on both monitors (Worth mentioning my player has two SCART outs, so no possibility for signal quality loss). I’d like to get all my main monitors (re-)calibrated using Calman tools some time soon though. I believe my 4K input is pretty off, which might be the reason they don’t look identical. That or the fact that the MX 7000 is 20 years old now ofc😂
Hey Bob. In the video, you seemed to somewhat suggest we output to the highest resolution our particular scalers can handle - 1080p for the 5X and 2160p for the 4K. 480 doesn't go evenly into either of those numbers - wouldn't it make sense then to just output and capture at 480p to keep integer scaling?
Excellent question, however you're thinking like a retro gamer :) Integer scaling is crucial for games with 2D graphics, but with both 3D graphic games and *especially* with video content, it doesn't matter. In fact, sharp scaling looks terrible with video content. Give it a try on your TINK and see. ...actually, sharp, integer scaling sometimes helps when adding scanlines for *viewing* video content. But neither sharp scaling or scanlines should be used in capture.
@@RetroRGByes, that makes sense. Well said - I was thinking like a retro gamer. 😂 So, I guess the idea then is that the RetroTINK 4K can probably do a better job at scaling up to 2160p than our TVs, so it's better to use that scaling once and then know it will look good on any TV, right?
Have you tried capturing VHS through YPbPr? For some reason this looked so much better to me. My VCR is a DVD combo unit and has component out which also works for VHS and while it looks the same as composite connected to a TV it really makes a difference with the Tink5x. YPbPr is handled by a different part of the system (for lack of a better term) and not by the SDP. It's really strange and I like the look.
This is amazing. I'll have to re-digitize all my tapes again lol... QUESTION: Would it make sense to use the built-in TBC on my JVC S-VHS VCR, or the Tink 5X's TBC? I'm assuming using both is a bad idea. Thoughts?
Definitely don't use both. I'd personally test and see: Try setting the RT5x to Framelock mode and set your capture card to 59.94. Do you get dropouts? Does the video "wiggle"? If not, use it that way and get the exact framerate. ...and if you do see dropouts or an unsteady picture, go back to Triple Buffer and turn off your VCR's TBC.
As a wild idea, if you copy the video at least 3 times, with different levels of brightness, and use some HDR software on the individual images, I wonder if there is enough info to get an HDR effect? Would be interesting to find out.
Great video! RetroTink is awesome. What do you think about going from a VHS composite out to Panasonic DMR-ES15 recorder---S Video out from ES15 to Canopus ADVC-115---Firewire 400 from ADVC 115 to Mac (with adapters). Capture using FCP X or OBS? I heard the ADVC has a built in TBC as well.
My RetroTINK-5X displays only in the Standard Definition Decoder menu with no options to change it after loading the default profile. Any thoughts on how to fix it? I have restored the factory default settings by holding both the 'Menu Button' and 'Option Button' as it books up, but I had no luck.
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Just got my RT4K this morning and have a whole pile of tapes to digitize, so this upload’s timing is pretty ideal. This is extremely useful so thanks for another great explainer vid, Bob!
Thanks very much!! I’d love to collab sometime. We could totally nerd out!
Hi,
Was gifted a bunch of VHS tapes containing recordings of Red Wings Playoff games from '97. I wanna digitize them with my new Retrotink 4k but don't have a capture card. What do you recommend?
My goal is to upload them to TH-cam.
@@RetroRGBgreat video. Thanks for making this video
The Retrotink 4K is the best analog-to-digital solution there is, especially for the cost. However I wish the time base correction did more correction. At places where I paused the original camcorder tape in camera, it will often jump and sometimes even show a quick frame from several minutes ago that for some reason is still in the RT4K's buffer. The RT5X also does this. It doesn't seem to have issues where I paused the recordings on a VHS tape, just old 8mm and Hi8 tapes that were then transferred to VHS. EDIT: I'm gonna try to get a JVC Super VHS as that's how the recordings were made. I currently only have a Mitsubishi S-VHS so maybe it doesn't like JVC recordings I dunno. Wouldn't hurt to have a spare VCR anyway.
*Lordsmurf doesn't like this*
@@JnL_SSBM Who the F is Lordsmurf?
UPDATE: I have a real Time Base Corrector arriving. I hope it works. The JVC VCR did not work. I have a lot of stuff to digitize while I still can.
@@GameSack lordsmurf once said that Retrotink 5x or 4K are inaccurate since it's a retro gaming scaler, not a Time Base Corrector. I have a decent Panasonic Diga DMR ES-15 as a TBC.
@@JnL_SSBM I'm not sure LordSmurf is entirely wrong about the TINKs, but until Mike implements proper 576i passthrough it's hard for me to test/compare and get accurate results as I only have PAL tapes.
I have an actual standalone TBC, and playback wise through when compared to the TINK-5X, it seemed to perform comparably. I'd still love to perform some more robust testing though if a 576i mode comes.
This is BRILLIANT! My skater friends have TONS of videos still locked on VHS. What a godsend!
This is what I'm using this mostly for! I have the whole 411VM VHS-only releases collection. Epic.
@@shredbraahh8606 please let us know if you end up uploading those to TH-cam. Loved 411VM growing up.
Yeah please @ me as well if any of you upload any digitized old skating stuff❤
I wanna see y'all stuff tbh. Love skating
I remember speaking with Mike years ago about the abundant pros of developing a TBC for the Tink 5x-Pro (both for him and for the community). People were already playing with using the 2x-Pro for VHS capture (I was one of them) - and it was good! I already owned TBC hardware but it seemed obvious that with the 5x's increased capabilities, it would be the perfect modern device for added TBC functionality if he was able to swing the focus and time for development because as anyone doing VHS capture or archiving knows, TBCs were (and still) are insanely priced! He was pretty resistant to the idea for quite a while (who else remembers?). But I think enough of us ended up hounding him about it (I definitely kept bringing it up to him haha), he came around and we ended up getting it for our 5x-Pros! Amazing work! Now here we all are a few more years later, the 4K is out and enthusiasts are sitting pretty! My RetroTINK 4K is excellent and it couples well with my other TBC hardware just like my 5x-Pro did (Thanks, Mike!). Also, thank you for the video, Bob! I love deep dives like this - keep up the great work!
Bob! This is a great video! I’m a sysadmin at a library and help with a variety of patron needs, especially VHS to digital conversations, up until this video, there just wasn’t a solution that could be implemented without a substantial amount of staff time, until now!
We’ll be able to offer this service again! Genuinely grateful for this!
As someone who used to work in a post house tape room, I really appreciate you covering this. Great results without hunting for costly, bulky and old equipment or spending weeks messing with vapor synth.
Even though I can't afford to get into Retro Gaming or Pro-Level Tape Transfer yet, this is still really informative and entertaining to watch. TH-cam channels such as yourself, MLiG, and MVG really make my mind run wild with different scaler and hardware possibilities!
Can't wait to see your Domesday Duplicator video...btw, the team over at VHS-Decode are in the process of finalizing the MISRC hardware, a successor to the DdD, which will be able to capture multiple streams simultaneously(so manually syncing multiple audio/video captures will finally become a thing of the past).
Besides having to jack into the the VTR/VCR hardware, the separate audio recording and manual syncing process is the main reason I never went with that process. Besides the huge processing times.
I digitized all of my family’s home videos with my TINK 2X mini and HD60 Pro in late 2020. There were lots of signal drops and other issues. Going to redo this project with my TINK 5X and your tips! Thank you!!
I can't get over how wonderful this video is. Thanks so much for all the work that went into it (and your expertise)!
Thank you!
Great video! I'm glad we're seeing modern capture techniques like this and domesday. I'll be happy to see us move on from the current "recommended" techniques involving WinXP, huffyuv and insanely priced TBCs.
What timing! I literally used my retrotink 5x to digitize over 100 hours of family videos that were stored on mini vhs. The tink made it so easy that the hardest part was swapping the mini vhs’s out every hour. Glad to see this practical use of the product being covered, especially since I didn’t realize how expensive/ low quality the “home videos digitize” market was.
Thank you! This made my day. I've been eagerly waiting for this video ever since I got my RetroTINK 4K.
Had my 5x-pro laying around because of how much retro gaming I do. This video informed me a ton and I'm glad it can "replace" an expensive vintage TBC for something more cost effective for general home use.
just commenting to express my appreciation for your content and ability to cover complicated topics in digestible ways.
been interested in VHS digitizing for a while now and i learned more in this video than in countless hours of googling.
Thanks so much!!!
Thank you for this guide. I am recording my mom and dad's old home VHS tapes, and I will give them to my dad on a flash drive for Father's Day. Thank you!!!
Вы прекрасно все обьясняете! Рад,что нас сближают наши увлечения!Спасибо вам!
Bought a retrotink5x last year to transfer my parents wedding, my grandparents wedding anniversary and videos of my brother after we found them when cleaning my abuela's house. Bought a s-VHS player with a built in TBC since their was warping on the top of the picture but now the retrotink5x fixes the warping by its self now. My parents where happy that the tapes are now on the computer since one my mom overwrote the her original wedding tape by mistake so she though it was lost and we don't have anything of my brother digital since he wasn't around in the digital world.
Thanks for sharing! Glad it worked out :)
This is extremely timely and helpful! My family was just talking yesterday about how we need to digitize our tapes before they go bad, I realized I could probably do it with the RT4K, and low and behold you posted this only 10 days ago! Thank you!!
I just ordered a Retrotink5x for VHS ripping after getting an HDMI capture card! I'm very excited to try out the TBC in it, especially for tapes you can't buy on DVD!
Seeing this makes me realize I'd love to have a physical media player for my VHS and DVD rips that that emulates scanlines and VHS-style fast-forward and rewind, maybe in a VCR shell/case. It would be great for VHS anime rips in particular.
Emulating VHS fast-forward and rewind would be hard. Well, more that it'd be really CPU-intensive, as doing so would require decoding the video much faster than real-time. The stuttering of digital FF/RW is down to just decoding the rare frames that are compressed using only information within the frame (i-frames). The rest store differences between frames, either between itself and the last i-frame (p-frames), or between itself and the neighbouring i-frames or -p-frames (b-frames).
Thanks Bob! Being a fan of your concise summaries and reasonable methodology, I've been looking forward to this video since that first VHS live stream!
Considering my $1000 vcr went kaput this vid could not have come at a better time
My family has a whole stack of Hi-8 tapes that i promised id digitize years ago, but after a few days playing with a Dazzle, j wasnt satisfied enough to wanna continue, as I'd likely wanna re evaluate my process. Very excited to learn from this video - perhaps I'll finally finish the project!
Just bought a Retrotink 4k from the restock!!! YES
Wow what a dope video. We make documentaries on VHS here in Prague and have been looking for a better method to transfer. Thanks for the in-depth video!
have you seen the japanese & korean dvd masters? they're better than your original masters
You mentioned the QTGMC process in one of your titles-that’s generally the best way to handle mixed framerate content like 24p animation with 60i overlays. I’ve used it extensively in my AI upscale of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show.
I have used so many devices to capture vhs and so many suck. My favorites have been a standalone Sony DVD recorder with internal time base correction, a combination of a cheap AV2HDMI dongle with an $11 hdmi capture dongle using QuickTime to record, and a very old windows XP PC using Dazzle usb 1.1 capture have been my go to vhs capture methods among the dozens I’ve tried. This looks very cool but I don’t see myself spending $500+ on a retrotink to digitize vhs tapes. I’m happy to see the analog to digital conversion community still striving for perfection though. Preservation is so important.
Truly appreciate the amount of effort you put into these videos, this is outstanding information and will be a reference for people for years. I have some old tapes I would like to convert and this is probably overkill, but I still enjoyed all the detail.
Thanks so much for the kind words!
I JUST ORDERED A TINK 4K AND I AM SO EXCITED THAT I HAD TO COMMENT HERE
Bookmarking this for later/ adding to TH-cam engagement with a comment. This is going to be so helpful. God bless you, Bob. Or Beer bless you, if you prefer.
Thanks Jimmy!
finally someone talking about time base correction, thanks for making this!
Thank you - Thank you - Thank you! This is precisely what I needed to know. Great video!
Correcting IVTC issues especially on Anime is especially difficult and often comes down to throwing out individual fields and then scaling the one you keep, or (hopefully) manually matching them with specialized tools, so I wouldn't expect the Retrotink to be able to handle every case. But running it through the Retrotink with no filter and then working on the upscaled output later would still prove very useful for Anime with no HD re-release
Also it should be noted that if you use S-video, be sure to disable 3D Comb Filtering completely in the ADC menu. If left enabled, you'll get a trailing afterimage that can be noticed mostly on fast-moving objects. You don't need 3D Comb Filtering with S-video anyway, so just turn it off.
Oh, really? I gotta go back and test that. I didn’t notice anything like that…but my focus was composite. Thanks for the heads up!
What an excellent video! I really liked how you highlighted the aspect of time & effort per transferred tape. Personally, I’ve used an old SVHS deck by JVC that has a DV out and then done deinterlacing and upscaling in ffmpeg, and this has definitely meant that I’ve skipped capturing certain tapes completely because the amount of effort required (tranferring files from my MacBook to NAS and then running ffmpeg for half an hour to produce the two H264 files I want).
Yeah, you really experienced the "time" aspect of it all. I can spend a day getting an amazing transfer of a tape...or spend an hour getting an almost-as-amazing version using a TINK. Sometimes it's absolutely worth the effort though! But definitely not always :)
Thanks Bob! Absolutely fantastic video that helped me set up my RetroTink for VHS capture.
Congratulations on your tips and solutions for RetroTINK. An experience I had with a promotional video that came as bonus media on a CD. The video came in a MOV file that was certainly compressed to fit on the 700mb CD (this CD is from 2001). This video was recorded at 15fps and the promotional video was probably recorded on a digital camera from the 90s, as the song is from 1995. Due to the blurred colors it could be that it was recorded on an analogue camera. very likely. The most interesting thing is that I tried to scale it to HD at 60fps using PC programs and the 15fps effect simply doesn't change. The only software I didn't use was TopazVideo due to my PC being limited and I don't have a dedicated video card. But it's incredible I used 4 video conversion and scaling software and the fps rate doesn't change. I managed to trick this by increasing the speed time which apparently disappeared the feeling of video recorded at 15fps. I even uploaded the video on my channel of this version that I supposedly cheated on. ajajaja.
Thank you very much for this hugely informative vid def gonna help everyone
Great Video Bob. I live in Brazil and an important thing to have in mind if you pretend to digitize VHS with brazilian VCR's, you have to use a VCR that has the option to chage from Pal M to NTSC because as far as i tested scalers wont work correctly with PAL-M signals, it will be in black or whit or all wobbly and no good to watch, so for you to properly capture you will need to set your VCR to NTSC, not all VCR's released in brazil have that option, but lots of them will, in same cases you will need the VCR cotroller to change the video region.
I never understud why Brazil uses PAL-M instead of PAL-N like Uruguay and Argentina or NTSC like the rest of America
@@sos.gamers i dont know either, but it sucks, i've gotta to change my retrogames console from pal m to ntsc to use with the retrotink 2x
@@matherzinsstuff3410 RT2x doesn't support PAL-M? Retrotink 4K can handle PAL-N and PAL-M just perfect
@@sos.gamers the rt2x does not, the 5x and 4k i've never tested
@@sos.gamers Pal N was created in Argentina in 1976-77, Pal M is from 1972, the question would be why not NTSC since Brazil had the monochrome system M, 525 lines 30 FPS, (Brazil's AC is 60 Hz) and changing to a 625 line system would have been very expensive, well, that was due to the intensive advertising campaign Telefunken and Philips carried out in Brazil in 1972, which included colour test broadcasts of popular shows (done with TV Globo) and technical demonstrations with executives of television stations. Another advantage of Pal M is the simplicity of converting to and from NTSC, since only the colour carrier is changed.
Thank you so much Bob for this amazing deep dive. I don't have a capture card and although that's a basic first step, I didn't really know what I would need to attempt this. I have a 5X and have been considering upgrading to the 4K, especially since I've been having trouble getting the firmware updater to recognize the 5X. Your video made me realize with my current setup I'm not quite ready to get the 4K for video capture and I really need to upgrade my computer setup first. After doing that, I do feel I'll have the confidence to digitize some of those old home movies, with this reference in tow.
So glad I could help!
Oh boy, I can't wait for... _someone's_ reaction to this... 😂
I've digitized a ton of my VHS tapes, old home videos etc, using Retrotink 5X Pro. Now that I have the Retrotink 4K, I'm almost tempted to go back and try it again. The results were good already.
I'd re-capture just one of your favorite old video tapes and see what you think. You will see a difference...but is it worth re-capturing everything? Probably not, as the RT5x is already great. But who knows, maybe the RT4K will be a great match for your tapes?
Japanese auction sits are a gold mine of cheap high end VCR, I bought a Victor HR-VFG1 which is the japanese equivalent of a JVC hr-9911U in box with boat shipping for $250 CAN.
another minus for the SoundBeast device (and most other devices I've tried in this class) is that is "de-interlaces" by discarding half the frames. You can see this by stepping frame by frame in the comparison section at around 23:37 (press , or . on the keyboard) and the retrotink maintains 60fps while the Soundbeast only steps every other frame. Thank you for uploading the video in 60fps by the way!
Ugh, I didn’t even realize that. Lol, but to be honest, it was SO BAD, I didn’t pay much attention to it. Thanks for the heads up.
I have been waiiting for this video forever
I use an original 2x to digitize my grandma’s camcorder tapes. She had a Hi8 camera so dropouts weren’t an issue. I now use my 5x and it’s great.
On behalf of my laserdisc collection, thanks.
Thanks very much!!!!
Will this capture the digital and AC-3 audio tracks perfectly?
@jonrobinson6851 I'm just running composite and stereo into the RetroTink and then HDMI out of that into my capture card, so it's just a basic stereo capture. Not sure if any capture cards are capable of doing surround sound. I know mine can't.
@@cnrobinson5401 Which capture card are you using, Mr. Robinson?
@@jonrobinson6851 I'm using the AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable 2 PLUS. Specifically in the "PC-Free" mode where it just captures direct to an SD card. It isn't the fanciest capture card available, but it works well enough for some basic captures.
I am extremely satisfied with the Retrotink 5X Pro I bought some years ago, it's been delivering on it's promises and I couldn't be happier. The 4K version is bound to be even better and I'm looking forward to see it's capabilities in the future. Perhaps some TH-cam videos got some info on it in great detail, I'll definitely go look for them. Digitalizing analog video seems like a conversion process of VHS tapes to digital media, it would be cooler if it was the other way around to digitalize into analog video. But that's just my take on it. Even better would be if it was possible to simulate a CRT screen using modern hardware and monitors.
The easiest way to record digital video to tape would probably be using an older game console that has analog outputs and can play video files, like a PS3, and recording that through your VCR. You can do the same thing with a Raspberry Pi as well, since they all have composite video outputs, but if your VCR has an S-Video input, the better option would be to use that with a game console
Definitely check out my video on the RT4K...it's CRT Simulation is even better than the RT5x's: th-cam.com/video/E3ep6sw0c8Y/w-d-xo.html
I never would have guessed you would plug Reasonably British like that!
Such a sad day for Lordsmurf... his already small business for his overpriced overhyped old school digitization equipment must be in jeopardy!
The comment I was expecting, I've never someone being so mad at Bob and is "uncorrect' way of digitizing. I recall him being mad at the Domesday Duplicator too
There is a reason why pros strife for excellency And reliabilty. If you only do this stuff for your private concerns its one thing but once mass and bigger customers come along your reputation and livelihood are on the line. Cut some slack and appreciate their experience.
Nice video, with one caveat: Even if you're in North America, home camcorders often used 0 IRE rather than 7.5 IRE, so if you're using 7.5 and the shadows are all black, you probably need to use zero.
Oh, really? I had a few VHS and Video8 camcorder tapes to choose from and both seemed more accurate to a CRT when in 7.5IRE. I should look into this more.
This came at the perfect ish time. I just used my tink5x yesterday to transfer a recent tape I recorded over the last year. Gonna now watch this and see if there’s any tips I can use for my next tape
I took a totally different approach to digitalizing my old VHS. I used a Panasonic DVD Recorder as a passthrough device to take advantage of its TBC elements and capture in my PC with an analog capture device (Diamond VC500). I kept everything in 480i to let the upscaling and deinterlacing to the reproducing device. This way I can always take advantage of better upscaling and deinterlacing algorithms that will come in the future, like AI-based upscaling, for example.
That's an absolutely excellent way to digitize VHS. LOL, no sarcasm, it's my preferred method in many cases.
Great stuff! This is extremely useful information for me!
Since the pandemic, capturing analog video became the most debated topic on the internet, Probably more than analog vs digital debates.
Awesome video, very curious about this for watching and scaling laserdiscs
Great timing on this video Bob as I’m hoping to backup some old 8mm and vhs tapes. This was super informative. Looking forward to that upcoming archival vid too!
Thanks so much!!! That was really nice of you!
Excellent work Bob.
Man this was an excellent video. It just kills me the 4K can't do 576i output yet. :C
I had to buy an Intensity Pro 4K to use temporarily to get around that and capture raw interlaced.
If that day ever comes, I will immediately slap down all $750.00 for one.
Perfect timing man
Have some old family videos this may help with. Thank you.
Absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for this. Currently using the 5x pro, but just ordered the 4k tink today and this is going to be perfect for setting up my tape transfers. Do you have profile setup for Japanese tapes? I have them as well, in addition to my NA tapes. Thanks again!
Thanks! For Japanese tapes, I'd just try that same color profile I showed, that should already be loaded on the RT4K's SD card. If that doesn't look right, you'll have to do some more digging. Sorry, I just don't know enough about Japanese tapes to offer more info that that.
Awesome video thanks dude! 🏴☠️🏴☠️
I have an S-video VHS DVD all in one machine. I have copied VHS to DVD and it works great. All internal.
Depending on the brand and model, those can actually be great, with their own TBC built in. You're still ended up with MPEG compression on the transfer, which is noticeable in 4K...bu tby no means is that a "bad" solution. I'll demo it in the upcoming video...
I have one ordered currently. I’m really excited to see how my vhs tapes look… I paid a little for my vhs player it has both component and hdmi first VHS player I’ve ever owned with hdmi out
It’s a JVC DR-MV150…. You can watch vhs straight to your flatscreen. I wouldn’t recommend it but who ever heard of VHS HDMI
Yaaaaay! Makes me wanna buy a 2nd retrotink lol
Thank you Bob! I always thought that we can use some of these scalers to digitize vhs tapes & DVDs
Also thanks for heads up on your Wednesday Update! I finally was able to order a Retrotink 4K
Great content
Every video I see on the RT4K makes me want one more. Looking forward to the OLED CRT video you mention. Curious on what you think of filters like that potentially causing burn in.
Great work Bob, looking forward to the upcoming video. We all know modern screens are pretty bad at upscaling for games, but they are kind of built for handling video content. De-interlacing on the fly can be a bit of a mixed bag so I will de-interlace when digitizing but I personally don't see much reason for storing captures in 1080p or 4K when pretty much everything that plays video can upscale SD on the fly just fine and takes up less storage space. Just my opinion, would love to get more info about capturing in 480i or 480p from either the Tink 5X or 4K, or other methods. VHS decode looks very impressive but also a lot more work to set up and much more time to process.
I agree: If you have the ability to play back lossless 480i, your TV should do it just fine. That said, if you're uploading to TH-cam, Facebook, etc, you should really scale to 1080p or 4K, otherwise they'll apply their terrible deinterlacing and compression.
Does the time base correction fix field alignment? Like would it straighten out the vertical border in the top right corner of the samples at 26:07? Seems like it does based on how the Tink output looks later on but a side by side would have been nice - geometric distortion is in my experience a more commonly encountered flaw than time desync when transferring VHS.
It should, yes. Just make sure you're on the newest firmware for either, as Mike recently fixed that on the RT5x and tweaked the TBC on the RT4K.
Just subscribed. Truely awesome video. Just to clarify tho. Do both the 4K and the 5X have a TBC or just the 5X?
Thank you! And both TINK's have a TBC, however the 4K's TBC can run at both 59.94 and 60. So if you're a video purist, it's a better choice. But both are excellent!
Great video, thanks. In the clips of the 4K & 5x after 26:30 the 4K clips looked a lot better than the 5x ones to me. Would you say this this typical for these devices, or was there some other reason for the difference in quality in this case?
If you’re specifically talking about the TBC test clips of Eurotrip, they’re actually not a good representation of either - I didn’t bother tweaking any settings, as I was ONLY running a TBC test. I probably should have gone back and recorded the full movie again with the pre-configured profiles, but I just used what I already had.
The main difference between the two is the RT4K’s more advanced scaling and deinterlacing. It IS better, but the RT5x is still very good.
5:38 - you flip through the Picture Control setting without commenting on what it is or what it does. It controls the noise reduction on JVC decks.
- edit = NR OFF
- sharp = minimal NR + edge sharpening (causes halos)
- soft = heavy NR
- auto/norm = standard NR, mostly to remove chroma, some softening may occur (depends on source)
The recommendation is either Auto/Norm or Edit -- test with each source to see which looks better.
Also, as someone with a bunch of import anime laserdiscs, I wish you hadn't mentioned a different Japanese color standard and then immediately moved on. I had never heard of it.
A tutorial on how to compile/install Brovicon would be good, too. A simple interface doesn't mean much if you have no idea how to run it.
I skipped over JVC VCR settings, as that wasn't the focus of the video - Same with Brovicon. You're correct about the JVC settings though and I always leave it at "edit".
Here's all the info you'll need on the Japanese color standards: www.retrorgb.com/colour-malarkey.html
Brovicon is getting some updates and I'll cover it in detail in the upcoming video. If you want more info, check out the podcast I did with the creator: www.retrorgb.com/discussing-video-conversion-with-simon-aarons.html
@@RetroRGB I was confused at first because the VO was talking about auto tracking while you were flipping through the picture mode options.
Awesome this helped out a ton! I'm getting tired of taking chances with those cheap converters on Amazon. I will look into getting one of the RetroTINKs soon, but are there any specifics that would lead you to recommend one more than the other, like would you recommend the 4K or 5x more? Or is either one just fine?
P.S. I'm glad you mentioned Reasonable British, I loved his capture card comparisons too, but I had no idea there were other RetroTINK devices outside of the one he reviewed until I found this video.
Thank you! Both are great, but I'd let your total use case make the decision: Is the 3D comb filter a priority for you? Will you also use it for gaming and watching older video content? Are you a tape transfer shop that wants to give your customers a 4K file? Then the extra money of the RT4K is absolutely worth it.
...but if you're just a casual gamer, or only need 1080p files, the RT5x is more than enough.
@@RetroRGB gotcha, think I may go with the 4K, thank you so much!
I have the JVC HR-S7800U with the built-in TBC, but I have a single tape that slants to the left with it off, and has tearing at the top with it on, where one field is good, but the other is wavy. I had to use the Panasonic unit you have there in passthrough to fix it. It's known as a poor man's TBC. It drops some frames here and there though, but at least it doesn't tear anymore. I use a Hauppauge 1800 with AmaRecTV. Virtualdub keeps losing audio sync after 55 minutes or so, but AmaRecTV has been rock solid. I tried using a scaler before, and it did look impressive, but I want it output as 30fps, interlaced, so I can deinterlace and interpolate to 60 in post. All the upscalers are only outputting at 60, not 30. 😥
Honestly, that Osprey 480i footage looked pretty amazing.. if someone had something special to convert, Id opt for that over RT
32:02 inverse telecine works wonders on 25fps PAL film content too. Just wish there was a 25hz de-judder option like there is for 24hz!
I once came across combing artifacts in a PAL movie I recorded from TV (PAL, obviously) in 25p. It was the only time I saw them in a PAL movie. I can't remember now if I got rid of them in full, but I know I used a very CPU-intensive deinterlacer plugin in Virtual Dub in 2003...
what's a pal movie? it has 3 different meanings:
1. 24p sped up to 25p then interlaced to 50i
2. 24p converted to 50i
3. 25p interlaced to 50i
@@gamecubeplayer you're right, one has to be precise. A PAL movie recorded from TV, that is, 50i - but should have deinterlaced easily into 25p with 2:2 pulldown, right? That's what I thought, but the combing artifacts were all over the place, so I don't know what the problem was. It was the only instance of a 50i PAL movie I recorded from TV which produced combing artifacts. Have you had any experience with 50i PAL movies?
@@radiozelazait was most likely 2
@@gamecubeplayer could be. What is even weirder then that it was a European movie, so they should have been aware of the problems of 24->50 conversion and opted for the speed-up instead...
@@radiozelazathey could've done it like pat & mat that was shot on film at 25fps which makes 3 the best option
I use a HDD/DVD-Recorder with scart in (from my vcr) and hdmi out (to my Elgato HD60S). I really would like to buy the Retrotink 4k, but I would use it too rarely for the price and it would collect dust the most time.
OSPREY 480i gives best picture quality imho.
Fantastic video. I feel like there's a niche crowd (based on my random assumption) looking to preserve analog video using a video upscaler/line doubler, and it's great you made such a detailed and informative video for us. I had a general idea of what a TBC does, but this video really helped explained what they do and the results one can expect. I think you've practically convinced me to pick up a Retrotink 5x for my tape conversion. Fortunately my tapes aren't near the level of damage as the one you tested with during the video, so I think other than a small amount of distortion which shouldn't take much away from the conversion, my tapes should be looking great in digital formats.
I do have a question. During the 6 way comparison around 7:24, I noticed the RT5x is a bit more washed out than the other captures. Is this due to whatever settings you had the RT5x set to?
Thanks! So, that TBC comparison was ONLY testing the TBC. Setting were all over the place and not a good representation of ANYTHING other than TBC. Sorry about that, I should have specified.
@@RetroRGB No worries and thanks for the explanation! Keep up the great work on the videos!
Nice! I use a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle & a separate AVT-8710 time-base corrector. I then upscale in DaVinci. Would be nice to have a single device for all 3 steps.
That's a great setup. If you do this often though, I agree: Use your current setup for direct capture and use the TINK's whenever you just want an HD version.
This is a great video! I wonder how the Tink4K handles color space since SD used the 601 standard and HD/UHD use the 709 color standard. Does the Tink4K correctly convert 601 to 709? Also I noticed Bob using a RGB capture setting rather than YUV? I was curious why since video uses the YUV standard. Lastly, since this is HDMI, how does setting full or partial impact the video levels?
All excellent questions. The TINK should auto-detect and convert 601 to 709 with no issue. And my recording settings were RGB when capturing the TINK's output, as it's outputting 4K in the RGB colorspace. But I'll dig MUCH deeper into capture settings in the upcoming video!
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! I work in TV and film making docs that use archival material. So I have tons of experience digitizing tapes, along with a full TBC analog capture system running on WinXP haha. I dabbled with the 5x on my last feature film as test. Have the 4K and been following the progression of tape capture. Thanks a ton for documenting all this work.
Could you make a video tutorial explaining how to configure RetroTINK 4K also for the PAL VHS format of VCRs, please? Thank you
Thank you so much for this video Bob! My conundrum is I have a ton of Sony Video8 analog video camera tapes from the 80s-90s that I recorded and my Camera died and finding a working Video8 camera or VTP is pretty impossible. So many of my teenage videos are locked away for me and it's sad.
Where do you live? Usually getting a working camcorder is not that hard, getting a good one with line TBC will be a little bit more expensive, Camcorders did not get abused like VCRs, most of their defects are due to aging, dried up grease, perished rubber or failed capacitors.
Funny you mention Video 8 - That's the exact format of my home movies that I'm starting to re-digitize! I just bought a Sony Hi8 player that's backwards-compatible. Not cheap, but you can always re-sell it when you're done transferring. It's been working great for me so far. Here's an affiliate link to the exact model: ebay.us/TcKc46
@@RetroRGB I'm a novice just now setting up to digitize about 30 Hi-8 tapes filmed between 1995-2003. I have the same Sony Hi8 recorder that you just purchased! I've tried an old VidBox capture device that I had laying around and used OBS Studio on a Windows 11 computer. The quality I'm getting isn't great. I'm pretty sure that the VidBox is only capturing at half resolution (720x240), which is part of the problem. What capture device do you plan to use? I think the Hi8 tapes are 480 30p. Is that an issue for the RetroTink setup?
Ewent’s Video Grabber is surely a good, cheap alternative. I digitized many tapes with this PC external device and the results are very good for me. Yes, there’s no upscaling (i believe) and not all those RT4K features, but it does the job perfectly for me. And no on-the-fly tape watching on the tv, but great for capturing.
Regarding the comb filter-I’ve been working on an AI upscale model for making NES composite look closer to RGB. It would be interesting to do a comparison.
Bob, another great video. I’m thinking an optimal viewing/settings video for using the Tink 5X and 4K on modern displays is coming? Optimal viewing settings with LD and VHS opposed to archiving I mean.
Thank you! I'd suggest using this exact profile for viewing...but then try adding the CRT Emulation filters. Also, if you have a RT4K and a 120Hz TV, absolutely try the BFI settings too! Each TV will look different, but I think you'll find small effects work really well.
Oh, I forgot: "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing alternates the lines just like a CRT. It's such a cool effect! LOL, TERRIBLE for archiving, but really great for watching.
Excellent. Another reason to buy this. If you are doing a CRT emulation on the RetroTINK in future it would be interesting to see if it can be used to "enhance" video quality of DVDs in any way. A lot of cartoons, TV-shows and concert videos are released on DVD only. Maybe this can bump the quality a bit?
Oh, absolutely! Both the TINK's CRT Emulation is amazing, as well as the "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing. You can make a DVD "feel" like it's running on a really nice CRT. The IVTC stuff is great for true 24p stuff. And if you have a 120Hz TV and the RT4K, the BFI options (especially with IVTC) are pretty impressive!
At long last!
I would suggest turning the RT4K off completely and back on after upgrading firmware. I've had issues with mine losing one audio channel after upgrading until properly restarted
This is great if you already have a retrotink.
So for someone permanently on a Eurotrip (living in pal territory and using a scart vcr) are there any other settings to consider?
I THINK the only real difference would be framerate. But I know almost nothing about PAL, so there might be more. Sorry!
None of my 3 (PAL) VHS players do RGB via SCART, so you’ll still be doing Composite or S-Video (I haven’t checked if I actually get S-Video out from the SCART ports. Only used composite as of yet).
I had no issues using the newly released VHS profile on my RT4k. (I only had to switch from S-Video input to Composite). It looks great, and when I side-by-side compare the image on my Panasonic TX-65EX780 with the one on my B&O MX 7000, it looks almost identical on both monitors (Worth mentioning my player has two SCART outs, so no possibility for signal quality loss). I’d like to get all my main monitors (re-)calibrated using Calman tools some time soon though. I believe my 4K input is pretty off, which might be the reason they don’t look identical. That or the fact that the MX 7000 is 20 years old now ofc😂
@@AdrianDX thank you both. I just start tinkering around. I have a mx7000 too still one of the best things I ever bought 😁
@@AdrianDX You still need to select the output to 4K 50hz, or create a profile to output 23.97 hz
Hey Bob. In the video, you seemed to somewhat suggest we output to the highest resolution our particular scalers can handle - 1080p for the 5X and 2160p for the 4K. 480 doesn't go evenly into either of those numbers - wouldn't it make sense then to just output and capture at 480p to keep integer scaling?
Excellent question, however you're thinking like a retro gamer :) Integer scaling is crucial for games with 2D graphics, but with both 3D graphic games and *especially* with video content, it doesn't matter. In fact, sharp scaling looks terrible with video content. Give it a try on your TINK and see.
...actually, sharp, integer scaling sometimes helps when adding scanlines for *viewing* video content. But neither sharp scaling or scanlines should be used in capture.
@@RetroRGByes, that makes sense. Well said - I was thinking like a retro gamer. 😂 So, I guess the idea then is that the RetroTINK 4K can probably do a better job at scaling up to 2160p than our TVs, so it's better to use that scaling once and then know it will look good on any TV, right?
Yes, but it's not just the scaling - The comb filter and TBC are really big deal's these days.
Have you tried capturing VHS through YPbPr? For some reason this looked so much better to me.
My VCR is a DVD combo unit and has component out which also works for VHS and while it looks the same as composite connected to a TV it really makes a difference with the Tink5x. YPbPr is handled by a different part of the system (for lack of a better term) and not by the SDP. It's really strange and I like the look.
This is amazing. I'll have to re-digitize all my tapes again lol... QUESTION: Would it make sense to use the built-in TBC on my JVC S-VHS VCR, or the Tink 5X's TBC? I'm assuming using both is a bad idea. Thoughts?
Definitely don't use both. I'd personally test and see: Try setting the RT5x to Framelock mode and set your capture card to 59.94. Do you get dropouts? Does the video "wiggle"? If not, use it that way and get the exact framerate.
...and if you do see dropouts or an unsteady picture, go back to Triple Buffer and turn off your VCR's TBC.
@@RetroRGB Thanks so much for your help, Bob. You have been so ridiculously helpful to me for the past several years. Much appreciated, man.
@@CorruptedDogg Nice 👍 I appreciate the info!
As a wild idea, if you copy the video at least 3 times, with different levels of brightness, and use some HDR software on the individual images, I wonder if there is enough info to get an HDR effect?
Would be interesting to find out.
Great video! RetroTink is awesome. What do you think about going from a VHS composite out to Panasonic DMR-ES15 recorder---S Video out from ES15 to Canopus ADVC-115---Firewire 400 from ADVC 115 to Mac (with adapters). Capture using FCP X or OBS? I heard the ADVC has a built in TBC as well.
the firewire 400 advc may use mjpeg compression (chroma subsampling & macroblocking) that should only be applied after the upscaling
Mixing TBC's isn't a good idea. Keep it as simple as possible.
My RetroTINK-5X displays only in the Standard Definition Decoder menu with no options to change it after loading the default profile. Any thoughts on how to fix it? I have restored the factory default settings by holding both the 'Menu Button' and 'Option Button' as it books up, but I had no luck.