Live Gamer 4K owners are in luck!!! Check this out: www.retrorgb.com/480i-support-for-live-gamer-4k.html Also, I found another 480i-compatible card: www.retrorgb.com/datapath-visionav-hd-true-hdmi-480i-passthrough.html
Absolutely loving the tape capture content. Went and bought a tshirt after this one to support. That new Scanline Block shirt is a great design. Thanks for all the content
Thank you for this video! It is well over my head but it is extremely helpful to me. I have some old VHS tapes of family that I view as priceless. Your video has helped me understand that there is a lot more to getting a VHS transferred to something modern while striving for lossless migration to get to there. While maybe even improving the quality some.😇
Thanks for watching! Yeah, this stuff is REALLY complicated. I try to simplify it as much as possible, but interlaced video will always be a challenge.
I asked Mike on Twitter if he could implement a frame TBC sometime last year, he was noncommittal at the time (either because he wasn’t sure it was possible or didn’t want to announce anything yet) but at the end he actually went and did it! just incredible, especially considering that dedicated known-good frame TBCs, which were already expensive 10 years ago, are now more or less unobtanium under $1k, with some exceptions once in a while. I’m wondering now how this compares with the ‘traditional’ dedicated TBC (+ proc amp + Panasonic DVD-R passthrough)+ ATi All-in-Wonder combo capture chain
This process is equal to or better than all existing solutions, including higher end analog equipment (other than the comb filter, as demo'd here and in the other TINK VHS video). I also don't know why people still talk about the All In Wonder's. There were so many better cards over the years, including cheap Hauppauge cards. Maybe it's just a "if it's not broke, don't fix it" solution?
@@RetroRGB maybe the AIW stuff is conventional wisdom on the relevant forums (DigitalFAQ, videohelp). I haven’t actually seen a decent shootout in quite a while
The other thing I’m curious about is how well this does in terms of upscaling and deinterlacing in comparison to slower-than-real-time solutions. The conventional approach would also be to do all such filtering before applying an upscale, but I wonder…
@@RetroRGB All USB cards clip values to the legal 16-235 levels. ATI AIW Radeon allow for capture of illegal values, and that matters for restoration. You're able to ingest the full palette, properly move it 16-236 in software, and not lose any image data. The USB cards also rely on cheap audio chips, and you slave AIW audio to something high-end like the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.
This video is awesome! Thoroughly explained, high quality footage and nice editing 💪 I don’t have either RetroTink yet, but maybe I should buy one for our family videos 🤌
hi, user who is stuck with PAL here - unfortunately the retrotink 5x strictly **only** has 480i available, but no 576i mode whatsoever... so i've been stuck with the 576p output, which i tried using along with the "weave" deinterlacing option within the retrotink to try and sorta capture 576i video, and it **kinda** worked but would flip field order randomly. i had to figure out an advanced ffmpeg filter that would try to automatically detect field order throughout captures and deinterlace them, but that detection was really flaky. in addition, the 576p output isn't quite aligned properly on the output and has like 20 pixels on the left side of the output displaying garbage data - i contacted mike about this long ago but he wasn't interested in fixing it unfortunately. the retrotink has generally been really great, but i have definitely felt a slight lack of support for PAL with features like this which makes me jealous of those over in america and whatnot. i already have a magewell hdmi capture card, i just need proper 576i output on the retrotink for great captures!
Very nice guide. I've been using an Avermedia capture card and always kept my original VHS for a solution like this. Going to use this, thank you!! Also, Magewell tends to run well on Linux so that is a bonus.
Thanks so much! There's a new video coming in a week or two that shows the best way to scale this 480i footage. It's 100% free and makes a BIG difference.
man I wish I could afford a RetroTink 4k 😢 I had to settle for using a Goodwill VCR into a composite/S-Video to Component adapter meant for OSSCs, into my GBS-C, into a cheap VGA to HDMI adapter, into my capture card when I found some old VHS tapes in my basement. it worked, and the GBS-C did an ok job of converting to 480p, but it wasn't great. considering the condition of the tapes though, it wasn't TOO bad. mostly it was just neat to see and hear my grandpa again after 22 years
the live gamer 4k requires a modified driver to allow interlaced support. i had to email avermedia and ask them for it. as far as i know they haven't released it publicly. i use it when i'm transferring betacams with my ossc in passthrough mode. i still use a traditional setup (gv-usb2, datavideo tbc + panasonic dmr-es15, high end vcr), but this looks like a really good alternative! good video!
Another excellent video regarding VHS conversion for us archivists out there. Unfortunately for me, I have the Live Gamer 4K, but thanks to your other video, I was able to get a damn good looking 480i to 1080p conversion.
@@RetroRGB I hear you. That's just another case of "works on my system" I guess. I've kinda accepted that everything directshow capture is the most wonky weird sh1t, feels like it's always been that way. The fact alone that even after 25+ years there's no other video capture tool for windows that reliably tells me if frames were dropped from my recording is mindblowing. I always come back to Virtualdub(2) for that reason alone. OBS drops frames like crazy even if it tells you everything went fine.
@@RetroRGB "works for me, lol." I have the HD60S (non + version) and got a clean 480i capture from a GCN w/ s-video, through a RT5x, and captured using VDub2. Call me surprised because I had my doubts. Like @pantra, I can't get OBS to record videos with dropping/duplicating frames every few seconds. It must be me because it happens on any PC I try.
@@RetroRGB One thing to watch out for: Sometimes when switching to or (re)nabling the card in Virtualdub the contrast slider under "Capture filter" or "Levels" will be set to 0 (for soooome reason), which causes the image to be all black. setting that to 128 makes everything normal again.
Thanks man, that stuff in the latter half is going to add immensely to the battery of tests I have to run my retro game capture/streaming rig through. 😉👌 *I had no idea that's what that test was for...* 🤔
I've tried a bunch and their proprietary software and codes drive me crazy. A LOT of people I trust swear by them, but none have Time Base Correction, so they won't be a "hidden gem" or anything. I think if you don't mind their software and can find one with a 3D comb filter for composite, they're great.
Thanks for the detailed insights! Would be really interested to see the difference between the best in Town Conventional Video Captures you did vs. the output a vhs-decode capture. Looking forward to your comparisons!
S-video should not use comb filtering as it has completely seperate signals for luminace and chrominance. Comb filtering's purpose is to seperate these from the single composite video signal. Highly recommend using s-video for the connection, vhs also has these signals separately stored. Also I would set the output colorspace to 4:2:2, rgb is completely unnecessary. For compression I use FFV1 codec because it is a industry standard and has better efficiency than lagarith. FLAC for audio. Also I use MKV so that I can add meta data to the container like color space information etc. That way the file will be played correctly.
Great video! I'll have to give that a try and compare with some other methods. What was your actual playback source for the Snell and Wilcox test patterns used at 18:10 and was that done with composite or S-Video? I am aware that pattern is on the Video Essentials DVD's, but then you also have the 4:2:0 chroma subsampling issue. How was the Snell and Wilcox one captured that says "No filter"? VHS does contain luma and chroma separately on the tape (modulated at different frequencies I think?), so comb filters shouldn't really matter there I don't think as long as you are capturing S-Video from an SVHS VCR. For composite output capture, yes, the comb filter will matter. The original recording can be regular VHS (not SVHS) and the SVHS VCR should still keep the luma and chroma separated if outputting S-Video, therefore there should be no need for a comb filter. I could be wrong on some of that, but should also be easy enough to test in practice.
The Snell and Wilcox patterns were from the DVD and were captured via composite. I think the "TBC example" was S-Video...but that was showing something different. And you're right about VHS always recording Chroma and Luma separate. Video8 is the same. I always discuss comb filters, both for people who want to use their existing composite-only player and also for people using LaserDisc, which is encoded via composite video. Please check the other TINK VHS video for lots more examples.
Your videos are super helpful and I'm having a blast learning about archiving VHS footage, thank you so much. Unfortunately I am looking to archive a lot of 576i footage, which if I understand it all correctly RT5X doesn't support. Would love to archive it in 576i to process it further at a later stage. Do you think the domesday project could be of help in this situation?
Thanks for this. I've done comparisons of different ATI devices versus each other, and ATI 600 versus DV passthrough, but have always been curious about a side-by-side comparison of a RetroTink5 versus a good SD capture device (I read a comment from Lord Smurf that Osprey devices are comparable to good ATI devices, so I think the the Osprey could be swapped for an ATI and get the conclusion/results). Very useful video. P.S. Many report that VirtualDub 1.9.11 is the preferred software for capture. Capture with VirtualDub2 is not recommended, although it is fine for post processing filter stuff.
I think my comment disappeared? I'll try to post again...The Osprey devices are awesome and can do everything the old ATI's can. I'm always baffled as to why people are still obsessed with those. ...and I've never seen any proof that VDub2 is bad for capture, only people on forums parroting what other people say. Is there any actual proof it's not good? Cause I have a few hundred hours of flawless captures on it.
4:25 don't use virtualdub2, use 1.9, as far as I can remember virtualdub2 (and 1.10) have some issues capturing, 1.9 is the most stable. Apart from that, great advice, sound video! I'll run some tests on my PAL equipment (now that the 576i passthrough mode exists) and compare it to my real TBC and see if there's a difference. I've been meaning to make some videos on processing VHS footage, and the tink 5x provides the perfect opportunity to expand that!
I’ve never found any proof there was a problem with VDub2, only people repeating the same rumor they heard. I’ve captured hundreds of hours of footage with VDub2 and didn’t have issues. Do you have proof of this?
@RetroRGB I can't say that I have definitely proven it myself. The guy who sold me my equipment (capture card, TBC) said that 1.9 was the most stable, and I've also read the same stuff you've read. I've used 1.9 with no problem for years, so never felt a need to rock the boat, same as you with vdub2. The alleged issue is supposed to be dropped frames, particularly at the beginning of the recording. My understanding is that virtualdub2 is a fork of virtualdub 1.10, not necessarily an improved version, so ultimately you should use the version that works best, not the 'newest' version. I do know that compatibility with virtualdub is supposed to be capture card dependant, and some do actually work better with vdub2 and vdub1.10 apparently. I suppose I can test it myself, I'm going to have to get a HDMI capture card anyway as my current one is composite/S-Video. I'll compare them in both programs.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I DO sometimes have the dropped frames issue, however it's only in the first second or two of the recording and never past that. I also think we should be buffering our recordings by at least a few seconds anyway and trimming later, so for me personally I've never found it to be an issue. Capture card compatibility is a valuable hint too! I've never had issues with VDub2, but now if I do, I'll know to check the earlier version, just in case. Once again, thanks for the answers.
Love all the info - I just wish I could find one decent capture card for a MacBook. They all seem to be tailored for Windows and work poorly on MacOS if at all.
I believe the RT4K can with a custom modeline, but I'm not sure if the RT5x can do it. I'm really sorry, I just don't have any PAL equipment to verify.
@@RetroRGB I actually returned my RT5x which I was just about to start to use when I saw this video. I am in PAL land. I confirmed with Mike about the 4K PAL option and the custom modeline and that the 5x will not have this added. Could I ask what exactly does the term custom modeline mean? Would it be different to how you selected the 480i output option in your 4K menu? I should mention I returned it with the intention of buying the 4K instead for this PAL feature.
Hey, Bob. Can you explain why it would be necessary to use Gen Lock over Triple Buffer when capturing 480i? I have the exact Magewell USB Gen 2 capture device but my best guess is this tape I'm testing is in rough shape and outputting an unstable signal that the Magewell has trouble locking onto with the Tink 4K in Gen Lock. Video has tons of dropouts. Sometimes a portion of the frame is black, or a few frames in a row, worst of all complete signal loss intermittently where it displays the Magewell signal status/test pattern for a few frames (I have since switched this to "black" in Magewell settings so it doesn't get encoded in captures). Switching to Triple Buffer fixed dropouts completely, and as far as I can tell there are no issues with field order or audio getting out of sync or anything like that. So I'm wondering what would be the reason if any that the default setting in your profile is Gen Lock, or in other words is there any reason I shouldn't just leave it in Triple Buffer for all my tapes just in case they have issues.
@@RetroRGB Thanks! My impression was that Triple Buffer acts basically as a "frame TBC" by correcting timing issues. I used it for the whole 2 hour tape and it seems to have done the trick so I'll probably stick with this from now on unless I'm potentially overlooking something here. Thanks again, I appreciate that you are continuing to cover the topic!
Found my answer in the Discord. From Mike: "Triple buffer will keep the right field order but will repeat fields which may mess up ur deinterlacing" I did notice that after deinterlacing the entire captured lossless AVI, there are a couple instances where I get that stuttering effect you talked about at 18:40. Luckily I've only noticed a couple instances of this over the course of this 2 hr tape and it only lasts for a second or two at most. Since the issue is *repeated* fields, no information appears to be lost that can't be recovered in the original interlaced capture. Simply switching to BFF the stuttering part looks normal again while the rest of the video is wrong. It's a bit of extra work but if you really needed a perfect deinterlaced file, you could do the conversion/deinterlacing in clips, BFF for those segments where the field order is temporarily reversed, TFF for the rest and then concatenating the clips back together without re-encoding using FFMPEG.
Hey Bob, I got myself the live gamer 4k now. Which capture card do you think will be the best for this. Is the avermedia one better than the magewell you showed. And are there any better ones for the described usage. Best Regards
If you already own the Live Gamer 4K, give the alternative driver a try and see how it works for you. It’s been working fine for me: www.retrorgb.com/480i-support-for-live-gamer-4k.html
Do you think the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle can digitize native 480i as well as the Magewell 32060 Gen 2? You said only use the Magewell, but the Black Magic looks robust.
100%, absolutely. Please check the other TINK VHS video for an explanation of LD, comb filters and composite video though. LOL, or if you have a RT4K, just load the composite profile and don't worry about it :)
Pretty annoying that HDMI capture cards are now regressing. My decade-old AVerMedia HD DVR (C027) PCIe card has no problems with 480i over HDMI. Can't capture 240p though. Regarding capturing RGB, there is no need to do so with NTSC/PAL/SECAM sources. They are native YUV video, so YUY2 is fine. Converting to RGB could actually introduce problems via color space conversion, so avoid it. The only exception would be if the TINK converts video to RGB somewhere in its processing chain, which it really shouldn't if the mode is billed as "passthru".
Well, did the C027 actually capture interlaced, or was it like the Live Gamer 4K, where it forced a deinterlace? You can still find those cards cheap, so it would be awesome to know for sure. ...and the RGB colorspace is more about future editing. Dan explained it well: th-cam.com/video/JdoGi7MwCws/w-d-xo.html
@@RetroRGB Most capture cards are just converting YUY2 to RGB on the card or at the driver level. Problem is.... is it doing it correctly? Be mindful that YUV video sources are generally limited range (16-235), and the card might very well be clipping blacks and whites without you knowing about it (this is what LordSmurf is referring to). Likewise, what is the RetroTINK 5x and 4k capturing and then outputting via HDMI? Is is doing an intermediate step transcoding to RGB? I know the 4k has the "Full" and "Limited" options on the output side and appears to be Rec.709 matrix YUV by default. This should be fine, although unexpected for 480i video and your HDMI capture card might still screw things up (hopefully you can manually choose a color space in the driver!). The options for the composite and S-Video input side on the TINKs appear more limited. Is it a full 0-255 YUV capture, or limited 16-235 capture and anything outside is getting silently clipped? With regards to the C027, I'll have to pull out the machine its in and test it with VirtualDub. Seemed to work fine the last time I used it with the RT2x in passthru mode. I also have a Epiphan DVI2PCIe that I'm pretty sure can do 480i via its DVI input as well. It also has full/limited and BT.601/709 overrides.
Transmitting 480i over HDMI was never within HDMI spec. So if anything, manufacturers have simply removed nonstandard capture modes and are now sticking to the spec.
@@CorruptedDogg I can't find the original HDMI 1.0 spec, but Wikipedia states the standard supports resolutions found in EIA/CEA-861-B, which does include 480i/576i video. Its possible these cards are being really picky about EDID information too.
I heard a lot of capture devices don't capture the *entire* frame, I have some old VHS and Hi8 tapes I need to digitise, will this crop them at all? I don't even want 0.1% cropped.
Excellent question. You set the crop manually when creating the profile…so if you’d like no crop, then just save it that way :) Reasonably British tests for cropping/cutoff in his videos and found quite a few devices that lose information. I was surprised myself. But that’s not an issue with the TINK’s.
@@RetroRGB Thank you so much for the help, I have some old Hi8 cassette and VHS tapes, I desperately need to digitise and all the info is overwhelming, I am afraid of buying one of these and not being able to use it because I am a layperson, I can use free software like OBS with it can't I? and is it just the retrotink and my laptop (plus the tapes/vhs and players I need to digitise of course) I need? or do I need a usb or something to get the footage off the retrotink? sorry if the question is dumb but I am a beginner.
I use a super cheap AV2HDMI Upscaler connected to an HDMI Capture card. I get de-interlaced compressed MP4 footage at 720p. Unfortunately, it's at 30fps, so I'm losing half the video data AND it also has a vertical back and forth shift. Not to mention I'm losing a lot of quality since the whole thing is just very janky. I need something like this RetroTINK that can actually do the original Native Resolution of RCA Analog Output (Red, White, and Yellow), at a standard interlaced 60i/50i at the Progressive Equivalent where one frame contains two fields, to be ready for de-interlacing. But perhaps for a much smaller price. Something like my current "junkyard setup" but better.
Hello so Magewell Pro cards seems best solution? what about black magic 4k pro that have 4 hdmi 2.0b inpus and claims support for analog resolutions such as 480i?
I don’t have any experience with BM stuff, but if you already own one, give it a try. As of now, the Magewell is the only one that does true 480i over HDMI with no “tricks”. Check the pinned comment for the Live Gamer 4K update though…I love that card!
@@RetroRGB I have Magewell pro pci card so it has s-video input so I bother does card itself do tbc and maybe retro think unnecessary spent or card up convert signal so it needed to do that 480i? I’m in pal region so guessing how to capture it properly in weave (interlaced) method to do avisynth deinterlace somehow motion adaptive to get that smooth 50 fps picture (576i or 625 in other terms) look as on crt more motion shaking seems better, also maybe u know is retro tink community create proper profiles for both 480i ntsc and 576i pal hdmi output? All I bother also is that deinterlacing cut framerates twice but proper is seems combine from 2-3 frames and preserve 50/60 hz
@@RetroRGB Thank you, what's the name of the little thing which attaches the capture card to your PC, it looks like a USB stick but has two connectors, one on each side and the smaller end goes into the capture card? don't I need that to attach the Capture card to my PC??
Are there any significant differences between the Osprey 210e and 260e? The latter is a lot more expensive, and rarely comes with the necessary breakout cables.
@@RetroRGB I see the 260e card and the cables sold separately for about $70 total, but I've seen auctions with both for three or four times higher. I downloaded the 480iCounter.iso out of curiosity (I don't have any game consoles, only regular DVD/BD players) and will see how my Yuan/Micomsoft SC512 N1-L does. I've read conflicting reports on whether or not it has a 3D comb filter. Also, DigitalFAQ recommends against VirtualDub2 for capturing for some reason, though I've never seen it spelled out why. The ringleader over there's responses to questions usually boil down to "You're stupid, your question is stupid, and we're all stupider for having read it."
I'm looking forward to seeing how the Micomsoft capture devices handles it! If you don't mind, please keep me in the loop....if it works, I'll add it to the list. Sadly, there's so much misinformation about video capture that unless someone shows solid proof (like I try to in my videos), when I hear things like "don't use VDub", I just assume it's people repeating what they've heard without actually understanding it. Also, I've tried all the software available and none work better. I mean, VDub is far from perfect, but it works.
Now THAT sounds like a great discussion: What are the deep-dive, nitpick differences between the TINK 5x and 4K’s TBC and the TBC-1000. I think LordSmurf has a lot to offer and I bet he’d be a great person to talk to about that. I just don’t tolerate his “it’s not a TBC” narrative, cause they are. But even if they perform the same (or better), I’d love to get into WHY…even if only a handful of people listen to the podcast :)
@@RetroRGB I would definitely listen. With regard to your TBC functionality, would it fall under line or frame TBC? I have 3,000+ dubbed tapes I’m harvesting clips from and need a new frame tbc. The cost for a quality one is outrageous right now due to the age and scarcity of the hardware. Have you found much in the way of errors that the RT can’t handle? For $750, I don’t want to have to buy a second tbc if possible. Thanks for your time. I’ve been a longtime lurker waiting for strong tbc functionality.
I believe both the 5x and 4K are between line and frame buffering. The way the low latency processing of the TINK’s work, it doesn’t need to buffer an entire frame to perform its processing (or passthrough). If you have three THOUSAND tapes, using either to go to 1080p or 4K will be all you need. It’s not as good as manual processing, but still excellent and a real time saver. …that said, the most important footage should be archived via 480i passthrough and processed in post. The TINKs are still great for that. And if you have anything that’s really important - especially if you have multiple original source copies - Domesday is the best. It just takes an extra 10-20 hours of processing. And the upcoming hardware will be better than what’s out today. I’ll have more videos on Domesday soon.
Can you explain why you stopped using Triple Buffer mode? In the previous video, you explicitly did *not* use the TBC mode of the 5x, and now you are. Additionally, for the 4K you use Gen Lock and not Triple Buffer or any mode named "TBC". Why not use Gen Lock on the 5x? Why is the "TBC" mode not documented on the 5X wiki?
TBC mode is ONLY for 480i passthrough. That's why I didn't use it for 1080p output. The RetroTINK 4K is a completely different product, with different software and hardware. So it will work differently than the 5x, even if stuff is labeled different. ...and I proved without a doubt the TBC is working in those modes and resolutions, so I'm not going to obsess over the exact details of how the TINKs work.
It sometimes happens within the first few seconds of the recording, but I’ve never had it happen mid recording with this setup. If it’s happening to you, try rebooting your PC before capturing and only opening VDub - No other programs running.
Yes, anything over 48Khz is overkill, However I suggest capturing in 24bit and downbit to 16bit during encoding to the final format to keep the noise very minimal especially for linear audio.
I started transferring my family's camcorder tapes many years ago using a dazzle and OBS with next to no understanding of video capture. Armed with all this new knowledge, I'm somewhat glad I abandoned the project, haha
I spent about 40 hours transferring my old tapes back in 2010...without a comb filter or TBC...and into a 4:2:0 codec. After everything I've learned, it wasn't a *complete* waste of time, but I most certainly did it wrong. I have to go back and re-capture the most important stuff.
Isn't it better to sample horizontal lines at a higher resolution than 720 samples per line? Like 1600x480i or 3200x480i? After all 720x480 is the standard of digital SD TV and analogue NTSC had no specified horizontal resolution. That way we get better material for future upscaling/. Yes, it does not produce "square pixels", but it isn't a big deal if our goal is to make a quality, lossless source to processing in the future. Most deinterlacing methods could resolve this problem automatically by multiplying horizontal lines.
No. You’re probably thinking of over sampling for video game capture, but that wouldn’t apply with video. Just the original broadcast rate of 720x480 @ 29.97 frames (59.94 fields) is all you need.
19:38 can you elaborate on this point? I’ve experimented with various forms of AI scaling on analog footage, and the results can vary quite a bit depending on the kind of footage (film, tape, etc.) and frameworks used.
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Live Gamer 4K owners are in luck!!! Check this out: www.retrorgb.com/480i-support-for-live-gamer-4k.html
Also, I found another 480i-compatible card: www.retrorgb.com/datapath-visionav-hd-true-hdmi-480i-passthrough.html
great timing, I was just messing with this whole workflow yesterday. Realized I care more about tinkering than actually capturing anything useful lol
Awesome video. Magewell capture cards are supported and work in Linux, for the uber geeks out there!
Thank you for this! I just tried setting up my current capture solution on my laptop running Mint but the only drivers available are with windows.
Absolutely loving the tape capture content. Went and bought a tshirt after this one to support. That new Scanline Block shirt is a great design. Thanks for all the content
Thanks so much for the support!
Thank you for this video! It is well over my head but it is extremely helpful to me. I have some old VHS tapes of family that I view as priceless. Your video has helped me understand that there is a lot more to getting a VHS transferred to something modern while striving for lossless migration to get to there. While maybe even improving the quality some.😇
Thanks for watching! Yeah, this stuff is REALLY complicated. I try to simplify it as much as possible, but interlaced video will always be a challenge.
Top field first is for most formats. Bottom field first is used with DV or mini DV. There is also DVD that can do both.
I asked Mike on Twitter if he could implement a frame TBC sometime last year, he was noncommittal at the time (either because he wasn’t sure it was possible or didn’t want to announce anything yet) but at the end he actually went and did it! just incredible, especially considering that dedicated known-good frame TBCs, which were already expensive 10 years ago, are now more or less unobtanium under $1k, with some exceptions once in a while.
I’m wondering now how this compares with the ‘traditional’ dedicated TBC (+ proc amp + Panasonic DVD-R passthrough)+ ATi All-in-Wonder combo capture chain
This process is equal to or better than all existing solutions, including higher end analog equipment (other than the comb filter, as demo'd here and in the other TINK VHS video). I also don't know why people still talk about the All In Wonder's. There were so many better cards over the years, including cheap Hauppauge cards. Maybe it's just a "if it's not broke, don't fix it" solution?
@@RetroRGB maybe the AIW stuff is conventional wisdom on the relevant forums (DigitalFAQ, videohelp). I haven’t actually seen a decent shootout in quite a while
The other thing I’m curious about is how well this does in terms of upscaling and deinterlacing in comparison to slower-than-real-time solutions. The conventional approach would also be to do all such filtering before applying an upscale, but I wonder…
(…did my first reply get eaten? or did I say something wrong? If so, I meant no offense, not trying to provoke or troll or anything)
@@RetroRGB All USB cards clip values to the legal 16-235 levels. ATI AIW Radeon allow for capture of illegal values, and that matters for restoration. You're able to ingest the full palette, properly move it 16-236 in software, and not lose any image data. The USB cards also rely on cheap audio chips, and you slave AIW audio to something high-end like the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.
I really appreciate this, im doing some VHS capture for my family soon, and this will be a great help! Thanks Bob!
This video is awesome! Thoroughly explained, high quality footage and nice editing 💪 I don’t have either RetroTink yet, but maybe I should buy one for our family videos 🤌
Thanks very much!
Lets GO! Saturday content!! Thanks Bob! ❤
hi, user who is stuck with PAL here - unfortunately the retrotink 5x strictly **only** has 480i available, but no 576i mode whatsoever... so i've been stuck with the 576p output, which i tried using along with the "weave" deinterlacing option within the retrotink to try and sorta capture 576i video, and it **kinda** worked but would flip field order randomly. i had to figure out an advanced ffmpeg filter that would try to automatically detect field order throughout captures and deinterlace them, but that detection was really flaky. in addition, the 576p output isn't quite aligned properly on the output and has like 20 pixels on the left side of the output displaying garbage data - i contacted mike about this long ago but he wasn't interested in fixing it unfortunately.
the retrotink has generally been really great, but i have definitely felt a slight lack of support for PAL with features like this which makes me jealous of those over in america and whatnot. i already have a magewell hdmi capture card, i just need proper 576i output on the retrotink for great captures!
my european friend just uses motion adaptive deinterlacing & upscaling to 1920x1440p because it's good enough
Now that is a shame to hear... I wonder if this is fixed in the 4K.
Very nice guide. I've been using an Avermedia capture card and always kept my original VHS for a solution like this. Going to use this, thank you!! Also, Magewell tends to run well on Linux so that is a bonus.
Thanks for making this video and for the detailed instructions!! Trying to digitize some old family videos.
Thanks so much! There's a new video coming in a week or two that shows the best way to scale this 480i footage. It's 100% free and makes a BIG difference.
man I wish I could afford a RetroTink 4k 😢 I had to settle for using a Goodwill VCR into a composite/S-Video to Component adapter meant for OSSCs, into my GBS-C, into a cheap VGA to HDMI adapter, into my capture card when I found some old VHS tapes in my basement. it worked, and the GBS-C did an ok job of converting to 480p, but it wasn't great. considering the condition of the tapes though, it wasn't TOO bad. mostly it was just neat to see and hear my grandpa again after 22 years
read about VHS Decode project
the live gamer 4k requires a modified driver to allow interlaced support. i had to email avermedia and ask them for it. as far as i know they haven't released it publicly. i use it when i'm transferring betacams with my ossc in passthrough mode.
i still use a traditional setup (gv-usb2, datavideo tbc + panasonic dmr-es15, high end vcr), but this looks like a really good alternative! good video!
Oh wow, really??? Is it something you can send me?
@@RetroRGB I'll see if I can find it and hit you up with it 👍
Dude, this video is excellent
Thank you!
Another excellent video regarding VHS conversion for us archivists out there. Unfortunately for me, I have the Live Gamer 4K, but thanks to your other video, I was able to get a damn good looking 480i to 1080p conversion.
You’re in luck!: www.retrorgb.com/480i-support-for-live-gamer-4k.html
@@RetroRGB I just caught this on your weekly roundup! I MUST GO NOW, I HAVE WORK TO DO
Just tested an older Elgato Game Capture HD60 S+ with a super famicom and the 240p Test Suite. It passes! The card does record in true 480i.
You got it working!?!?!?!? I borrowed one to test and it crashed every time! So weird.
@@RetroRGB I hear you. That's just another case of "works on my system" I guess. I've kinda accepted that everything directshow capture is the most wonky weird sh1t, feels like it's always been that way. The fact alone that even after 25+ years there's no other video capture tool for windows that reliably tells me if frames were dropped from my recording is mindblowing. I always come back to Virtualdub(2) for that reason alone. OBS drops frames like crazy even if it tells you everything went fine.
@@RetroRGB "works for me, lol." I have the HD60S (non + version) and got a clean 480i capture from a GCN w/ s-video, through a RT5x, and captured using VDub2. Call me surprised because I had my doubts. Like @pantra, I can't get OBS to record videos with dropping/duplicating frames every few seconds. It must be me because it happens on any PC I try.
Wow, maybe they changed the internals after a certain number were made? I'll try another.
@@RetroRGB One thing to watch out for: Sometimes when switching to or (re)nabling the card in Virtualdub the contrast slider under "Capture filter" or "Levels" will be set to 0 (for soooome reason), which causes the image to be all black. setting that to 128 makes everything normal again.
Thanks man, that stuff in the latter half is going to add immensely to the battery of tests I have to run my retro game capture/streaming rig through. 😉👌 *I had no idea that's what that test was for...* 🤔
Thanks for watching. I doubt we'll find many capture cards capable of 480i over HDMI, but I hope there's at least _one_ more out there!
@@RetroRGB Tried any BlackMagic cards? (They're almost affordable, used.) 🤔
I've tried a bunch and their proprietary software and codes drive me crazy. A LOT of people I trust swear by them, but none have Time Base Correction, so they won't be a "hidden gem" or anything. I think if you don't mind their software and can find one with a 3D comb filter for composite, they're great.
Absolutely fabulous Bob 😉
lollllll
Been researching building my own line tbc on a breadboard
All the people that sell the Magewell must have gotten word of your video because the prices pretty much tripled in 24 hours.
You're doing the Lord's work, dude. 😊 And I don't mean Voultar! 😂😂🎉
Thanks for the detailed insights! Would be really interested to see the difference between the best in Town Conventional Video Captures you did vs. the output a vhs-decode capture. Looking forward to your comparisons!
I’m looking forward to seeing that as well! Hopefully I’ll have that video in a few months.
S-video should not use comb filtering as it has completely seperate signals for luminace and chrominance. Comb filtering's purpose is to seperate these from the single composite video signal. Highly recommend using s-video for the connection, vhs also has these signals separately stored. Also I would set the output colorspace to 4:2:2, rgb is completely unnecessary. For compression I use FFV1 codec because it is a industry standard and has better efficiency than lagarith. FLAC for audio. Also I use MKV so that I can add meta data to the container like color space information etc. That way the file will be played correctly.
Great video! I'll have to give that a try and compare with some other methods. What was your actual playback source for the Snell and Wilcox test patterns used at 18:10 and was that done with composite or S-Video? I am aware that pattern is on the Video Essentials DVD's, but then you also have the 4:2:0 chroma subsampling issue. How was the Snell and Wilcox one captured that says "No filter"? VHS does contain luma and chroma separately on the tape (modulated at different frequencies I think?), so comb filters shouldn't really matter there I don't think as long as you are capturing S-Video from an SVHS VCR. For composite output capture, yes, the comb filter will matter. The original recording can be regular VHS (not SVHS) and the SVHS VCR should still keep the luma and chroma separated if outputting S-Video, therefore there should be no need for a comb filter. I could be wrong on some of that, but should also be easy enough to test in practice.
The Snell and Wilcox patterns were from the DVD and were captured via composite. I think the "TBC example" was S-Video...but that was showing something different. And you're right about VHS always recording Chroma and Luma separate. Video8 is the same. I always discuss comb filters, both for people who want to use their existing composite-only player and also for people using LaserDisc, which is encoded via composite video. Please check the other TINK VHS video for lots more examples.
Your videos are super helpful and I'm having a blast learning about archiving VHS footage, thank you so much.
Unfortunately I am looking to archive a lot of 576i footage, which if I understand it all correctly RT5X doesn't support. Would love to archive it in 576i to process it further at a later stage. Do you think the domesday project could be of help in this situation?
Thanks very much! And yes, the Domesday project is the best option out there. A LOT more work than a TINK, but it’s the best.
@@RetroRGB Looks like that will be next rabbit hole to explore then. Do you think you'll cover domesday project in a future video? Would be awesome
Absolutely, yes. I plan on starting with a livestream.
@@RetroRGB Experimental firmware 3.95 for the 5x has 576i passthrough and i am screaming. WOOOOOOOO
Thanks for this. I've done comparisons of different ATI devices versus each other, and ATI 600 versus DV passthrough, but have always been curious about a side-by-side comparison of a RetroTink5 versus a good SD capture device (I read a comment from Lord Smurf that Osprey devices are comparable to good ATI devices, so I think the the Osprey could be swapped for an ATI and get the conclusion/results). Very useful video.
P.S. Many report that VirtualDub 1.9.11 is the preferred software for capture. Capture with VirtualDub2 is not recommended, although it is fine for post processing filter stuff.
I think my comment disappeared? I'll try to post again...The Osprey devices are awesome and can do everything the old ATI's can. I'm always baffled as to why people are still obsessed with those.
...and I've never seen any proof that VDub2 is bad for capture, only people on forums parroting what other people say. Is there any actual proof it's not good? Cause I have a few hundred hours of flawless captures on it.
Great video! Is there a way to use the RT 5X to do a 1080p from the captured 480i or do I have to go through the capture a second time?
Got you covered!: th-cam.com/video/Br6YRkOM9jA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=lc-IXZfkQHIFm1JD
…oh, wait…do you mean 1080p and 480i at the same time?
4:25 don't use virtualdub2, use 1.9, as far as I can remember virtualdub2 (and 1.10) have some issues capturing, 1.9 is the most stable.
Apart from that, great advice, sound video! I'll run some tests on my PAL equipment (now that the 576i passthrough mode exists) and compare it to my real TBC and see if there's a difference. I've been meaning to make some videos on processing VHS footage, and the tink 5x provides the perfect opportunity to expand that!
I’ve never found any proof there was a problem with VDub2, only people repeating the same rumor they heard. I’ve captured hundreds of hours of footage with VDub2 and didn’t have issues. Do you have proof of this?
@RetroRGB I can't say that I have definitely proven it myself. The guy who sold me my equipment (capture card, TBC) said that 1.9 was the most stable, and I've also read the same stuff you've read. I've used 1.9 with no problem for years, so never felt a need to rock the boat, same as you with vdub2. The alleged issue is supposed to be dropped frames, particularly at the beginning of the recording.
My understanding is that virtualdub2 is a fork of virtualdub 1.10, not necessarily an improved version, so ultimately you should use the version that works best, not the 'newest' version.
I do know that compatibility with virtualdub is supposed to be capture card dependant, and some do actually work better with vdub2 and vdub1.10 apparently. I suppose I can test it myself, I'm going to have to get a HDMI capture card anyway as my current one is composite/S-Video. I'll compare them in both programs.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I DO sometimes have the dropped frames issue, however it's only in the first second or two of the recording and never past that. I also think we should be buffering our recordings by at least a few seconds anyway and trimming later, so for me personally I've never found it to be an issue.
Capture card compatibility is a valuable hint too! I've never had issues with VDub2, but now if I do, I'll know to check the earlier version, just in case.
Once again, thanks for the answers.
Nice shirt.
Love all the info - I just wish I could find one decent capture card for a MacBook. They all seem to be tailored for Windows and work poorly on MacOS if at all.
Yeah, you might be stuck capturing and scaling on windows and editing on Mac :/
Hello, thanks for this video, does this also work in 576i ?
I believe the RT4K can with a custom modeline, but I'm not sure if the RT5x can do it. I'm really sorry, I just don't have any PAL equipment to verify.
@@RetroRGB Ah thanks for the answer. This would be so nice if it works, this machine seems the ultimate solution.
@@RetroRGB I actually returned my RT5x which I was just about to start to use when I saw this video.
I am in PAL land.
I confirmed with Mike about the 4K PAL option and the custom modeline and that the 5x will not have this added.
Could I ask what exactly does the term custom modeline mean? Would it be different to how you selected the 480i output option in your 4K menu?
I should mention I returned it with the intention of buying the 4K instead for this PAL feature.
You should try with an hdmi to svideo converter with a regular capture card.
Those will most likely change the signal significantly. It's possible it might work, but there's a lot of things that would all have to match up.
Have you tested the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle as a capture device? From what I understand, it outputs 480i.
No, Blackmagic hardware always annoys me. All of my friends like it, so I’m sure it’s just me, but I don’t use any.
Fiona! LOL I've got vague memories of this movie
3:00 What about SECAM? Will it work?
I am using the BlackMagic Hyperdeck 4K. Never have to tweak anything… makes me lazy 😂
Hey, Bob. Can you explain why it would be necessary to use Gen Lock over Triple Buffer when capturing 480i? I have the exact Magewell USB Gen 2 capture device but my best guess is this tape I'm testing is in rough shape and outputting an unstable signal that the Magewell has trouble locking onto with the Tink 4K in Gen Lock. Video has tons of dropouts. Sometimes a portion of the frame is black, or a few frames in a row, worst of all complete signal loss intermittently where it displays the Magewell signal status/test pattern for a few frames (I have since switched this to "black" in Magewell settings so it doesn't get encoded in captures).
Switching to Triple Buffer fixed dropouts completely, and as far as I can tell there are no issues with field order or audio getting out of sync or anything like that. So I'm wondering what would be the reason if any that the default setting in your profile is Gen Lock, or in other words is there any reason I shouldn't just leave it in Triple Buffer for all my tapes just in case they have issues.
That was Mike’s suggestion. I did test this on a broken tape, but I’ll check again.
@@RetroRGB Thanks! My impression was that Triple Buffer acts basically as a "frame TBC" by correcting timing issues. I used it for the whole 2 hour tape and it seems to have done the trick so I'll probably stick with this from now on unless I'm potentially overlooking something here.
Thanks again, I appreciate that you are continuing to cover the topic!
Found my answer in the Discord. From Mike: "Triple buffer will keep the right field order but will repeat fields which may mess up ur deinterlacing"
I did notice that after deinterlacing the entire captured lossless AVI, there are a couple instances where I get that stuttering effect you talked about at 18:40. Luckily I've only noticed a couple instances of this over the course of this 2 hr tape and it only lasts for a second or two at most. Since the issue is *repeated* fields, no information appears to be lost that can't be recovered in the original interlaced capture. Simply switching to BFF the stuttering part looks normal again while the rest of the video is wrong. It's a bit of extra work but if you really needed a perfect deinterlaced file, you could do the conversion/deinterlacing in clips, BFF for those segments where the field order is temporarily reversed, TFF for the rest and then concatenating the clips back together without re-encoding using FFMPEG.
Hey Bob,
I got myself the live gamer 4k now. Which capture card do you think will be the best for this. Is the avermedia one better than the magewell you showed. And are there any better ones for the described usage.
Best Regards
If you already own the Live Gamer 4K, give the alternative driver a try and see how it works for you. It’s been working fine for me: www.retrorgb.com/480i-support-for-live-gamer-4k.html
Do you think the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle can digitize native 480i as well as the Magewell 32060 Gen 2? You said only use the Magewell, but the Black Magic looks robust.
I've heard that it can, but I haven't personally tested. Sorry!
@@RetroRGB thanks for the prompt reply. If I get the spare $$$, maybe I'll buy and review both and share what I learn.
🙌
whats the best way to upscale 480i to 4K?
The best is the RetroTINK 4K, but the TINK 5x is also excellent and much more affordable.
the lagarith codec has issues on vlc since the colors are swaped
Will these settings work with laserdisc?
100%, absolutely. Please check the other TINK VHS video for an explanation of LD, comb filters and composite video though. LOL, or if you have a RT4K, just load the composite profile and don't worry about it :)
Pretty annoying that HDMI capture cards are now regressing. My decade-old AVerMedia HD DVR (C027) PCIe card has no problems with 480i over HDMI. Can't capture 240p though.
Regarding capturing RGB, there is no need to do so with NTSC/PAL/SECAM sources. They are native YUV video, so YUY2 is fine. Converting to RGB could actually introduce problems via color space conversion, so avoid it. The only exception would be if the TINK converts video to RGB somewhere in its processing chain, which it really shouldn't if the mode is billed as "passthru".
Well, did the C027 actually capture interlaced, or was it like the Live Gamer 4K, where it forced a deinterlace? You can still find those cards cheap, so it would be awesome to know for sure.
...and the RGB colorspace is more about future editing. Dan explained it well: th-cam.com/video/JdoGi7MwCws/w-d-xo.html
@@RetroRGB Most capture cards are just converting YUY2 to RGB on the card or at the driver level. Problem is.... is it doing it correctly? Be mindful that YUV video sources are generally limited range (16-235), and the card might very well be clipping blacks and whites without you knowing about it (this is what LordSmurf is referring to).
Likewise, what is the RetroTINK 5x and 4k capturing and then outputting via HDMI? Is is doing an intermediate step transcoding to RGB? I know the 4k has the "Full" and "Limited" options on the output side and appears to be Rec.709 matrix YUV by default. This should be fine, although unexpected for 480i video and your HDMI capture card might still screw things up (hopefully you can manually choose a color space in the driver!). The options for the composite and S-Video input side on the TINKs appear more limited. Is it a full 0-255 YUV capture, or limited 16-235 capture and anything outside is getting silently clipped?
With regards to the C027, I'll have to pull out the machine its in and test it with VirtualDub. Seemed to work fine the last time I used it with the RT2x in passthru mode. I also have a Epiphan DVI2PCIe that I'm pretty sure can do 480i via its DVI input as well. It also has full/limited and BT.601/709 overrides.
Transmitting 480i over HDMI was never within HDMI spec. So if anything, manufacturers have simply removed nonstandard capture modes and are now sticking to the spec.
@@CorruptedDogg I can't find the original HDMI 1.0 spec, but Wikipedia states the standard supports resolutions found in EIA/CEA-861-B, which does include 480i/576i video. Its possible these cards are being really picky about EDID information too.
10k views - 500 likes? C'mon folks give it a like.
I heard a lot of capture devices don't capture the *entire* frame, I have some old VHS and Hi8 tapes I need to digitise, will this crop them at all? I don't even want 0.1% cropped.
Excellent question. You set the crop manually when creating the profile…so if you’d like no crop, then just save it that way :) Reasonably British tests for cropping/cutoff in his videos and found quite a few devices that lose information. I was surprised myself. But that’s not an issue with the TINK’s.
@@RetroRGB Thank you so much for the help, I have some old Hi8 cassette and VHS tapes, I desperately need to digitise and all the info is overwhelming, I am afraid of buying one of these and not being able to use it because I am a layperson, I can use free software like OBS with it can't I? and is it just the retrotink and my laptop (plus the tapes/vhs and players I need to digitise of course) I need? or do I need a usb or something to get the footage off the retrotink? sorry if the question is dumb but I am a beginner.
You could use OBS, or VirtualDub. Just make sure all the settings are correct - Resolution, refresh rate, etc.
I use a super cheap AV2HDMI Upscaler connected to an HDMI Capture card. I get de-interlaced compressed MP4 footage at 720p. Unfortunately, it's at 30fps, so I'm losing half the video data AND it also has a vertical back and forth shift. Not to mention I'm losing a lot of quality since the whole thing is just very janky.
I need something like this RetroTINK that can actually do the original Native Resolution of RCA Analog Output (Red, White, and Yellow), at a standard interlaced 60i/50i at the Progressive Equivalent where one frame contains two fields, to be ready for de-interlacing.
But perhaps for a much smaller price. Something like my current "junkyard setup" but better.
You can get a $50 IO data USB capture card. You’d just need to find a Time Base Corrector to pair with it.
@@RetroRGB Thanks for the information.
Hello so Magewell Pro cards seems best solution? what about black magic 4k pro that have 4 hdmi 2.0b inpus and claims support for analog resolutions such as 480i?
I don’t have any experience with BM stuff, but if you already own one, give it a try. As of now, the Magewell is the only one that does true 480i over HDMI with no “tricks”. Check the pinned comment for the Live Gamer 4K update though…I love that card!
@@RetroRGB I have Magewell pro pci card so it has s-video input so I bother does card itself do tbc and maybe retro think unnecessary spent or card up convert signal so it needed to do that 480i? I’m in pal region so guessing how to capture it properly in weave (interlaced) method to do avisynth deinterlace somehow motion adaptive to get that smooth 50 fps picture (576i or 625 in other terms) look as on crt more motion shaking seems better, also maybe u know is retro tink community create proper profiles for both 480i ntsc and 576i pal hdmi output? All I bother also is that deinterlacing cut framerates twice but proper is seems combine from 2-3 frames and preserve 50/60 hz
There's definitely NOT a TBC built in. Check for yourself.
Does the RetroTINK 5x have a built in TBC?
Yes. I show this in the video.
Is it possible to get the footage from the VHS into a digital file using the retrotink without the use of a capture card?
No
@@RetroRGB Thank you, what's the name of the little thing which attaches the capture card to your PC, it looks like a USB stick but has two connectors, one on each side and the smaller end goes into the capture card? don't I need that to attach the Capture card to my PC??
That USB stick IS the capture card :) Look for the "Magewell" links in the description.
@@RetroRGB so does it come with wires so I can connect it to my laptop?
Are there any significant differences between the Osprey 210e and 260e? The latter is a lot more expensive, and rarely comes with the necessary breakout cables.
Only YPbPr. I’m sad they cancelled the cheaper one :/
@@RetroRGB I see the 260e card and the cables sold separately for about $70 total, but I've seen auctions with both for three or four times higher. I downloaded the 480iCounter.iso out of curiosity (I don't have any game consoles, only regular DVD/BD players) and will see how my Yuan/Micomsoft SC512 N1-L does. I've read conflicting reports on whether or not it has a 3D comb filter.
Also, DigitalFAQ recommends against VirtualDub2 for capturing for some reason, though I've never seen it spelled out why. The ringleader over there's responses to questions usually boil down to "You're stupid, your question is stupid, and we're all stupider for having read it."
I'm looking forward to seeing how the Micomsoft capture devices handles it! If you don't mind, please keep me in the loop....if it works, I'll add it to the list.
Sadly, there's so much misinformation about video capture that unless someone shows solid proof (like I try to in my videos), when I hear things like "don't use VDub", I just assume it's people repeating what they've heard without actually understanding it. Also, I've tried all the software available and none work better. I mean, VDub is far from perfect, but it works.
Lordsmurf sill seems to think this isn't a legitimate TBC. Have you considered joining DigitalFAQ to discuss this with him?
Lmao, no. I proved without any doubt in this video, TWO DIFFERENT WAYS that the TBC is working perfectly.
@@RetroRGB Just checking. There are a lot of sales to be made off that board if the 4K can correct 1/2 of what the TBC-1000/3000 can.
Now THAT sounds like a great discussion: What are the deep-dive, nitpick differences between the TINK 5x and 4K’s TBC and the TBC-1000. I think LordSmurf has a lot to offer and I bet he’d be a great person to talk to about that. I just don’t tolerate his “it’s not a TBC” narrative, cause they are. But even if they perform the same (or better), I’d love to get into WHY…even if only a handful of people listen to the podcast :)
@@RetroRGB I would definitely listen. With regard to your TBC functionality, would it fall under line or frame TBC? I have 3,000+ dubbed tapes I’m harvesting clips from and need a new frame tbc. The cost for a quality one is outrageous right now due to the age and scarcity of the hardware. Have you found much in the way of errors that the RT can’t handle? For $750, I don’t want to have to buy a second tbc if possible. Thanks for your time. I’ve been a longtime lurker waiting for strong tbc functionality.
I believe both the 5x and 4K are between line and frame buffering. The way the low latency processing of the TINK’s work, it doesn’t need to buffer an entire frame to perform its processing (or passthrough).
If you have three THOUSAND tapes, using either to go to 1080p or 4K will be all you need. It’s not as good as manual processing, but still excellent and a real time saver.
…that said, the most important footage should be archived via 480i passthrough and processed in post. The TINKs are still great for that. And if you have anything that’s really important - especially if you have multiple original source copies - Domesday is the best. It just takes an extra 10-20 hours of processing. And the upcoming hardware will be better than what’s out today. I’ll have more videos on Domesday soon.
ia using a wii or a gamecube viable? i thought they also used chroma aubsampling in their signal (4:2:2?)
Totally, as 4:2:2 works perfectly for these tests. 4:2:0 is what we're trying to avoid. Great question though!
Can you explain why you stopped using Triple Buffer mode? In the previous video, you explicitly did *not* use the TBC mode of the 5x, and now you are. Additionally, for the 4K you use Gen Lock and not Triple Buffer or any mode named "TBC". Why not use Gen Lock on the 5x? Why is the "TBC" mode not documented on the 5X wiki?
TBC mode is ONLY for 480i passthrough. That's why I didn't use it for 1080p output.
The RetroTINK 4K is a completely different product, with different software and hardware. So it will work differently than the 5x, even if stuff is labeled different.
...and I proved without a doubt the TBC is working in those modes and resolutions, so I'm not going to obsess over the exact details of how the TINKs work.
Do you get dropped frames?
It sometimes happens within the first few seconds of the recording, but I’ve never had it happen mid recording with this setup. If it’s happening to you, try rebooting your PC before capturing and only opening VDub - No other programs running.
👍. Review the new morph 4k with analog. Im curious on your thoughts
There is no analog module yet.
Pro audio that goes with video uses 48000 Hz sample rate.
Yes, anything over 48Khz is overkill, However I suggest capturing in 24bit and downbit to 16bit during encoding to the final format to keep the noise very minimal especially for linear audio.
Even if your equipment doesn’t have a TBC, it can be worthwhile to try multiple capture setups to see if you get different results.
I started transferring my family's camcorder tapes many years ago using a dazzle and OBS with next to no understanding of video capture. Armed with all this new knowledge, I'm somewhat glad I abandoned the project, haha
I spent about 40 hours transferring my old tapes back in 2010...without a comb filter or TBC...and into a 4:2:0 codec. After everything I've learned, it wasn't a *complete* waste of time, but I most certainly did it wrong. I have to go back and re-capture the most important stuff.
Isn't it better to sample horizontal lines at a higher resolution than 720 samples per line? Like 1600x480i or 3200x480i? After all 720x480 is the standard of digital SD TV and analogue NTSC had no specified horizontal resolution. That way we get better material for future upscaling/. Yes, it does not produce "square pixels", but it isn't a big deal if our goal is to make a quality, lossless source to processing in the future. Most deinterlacing methods could resolve this problem automatically by multiplying horizontal lines.
No. You’re probably thinking of over sampling for video game capture, but that wouldn’t apply with video. Just the original broadcast rate of 720x480 @ 29.97 frames (59.94 fields) is all you need.
great video! Side note, whenever you pronounce DOMEsday as DOOMsday, I'm confused. There's only one O.
That's actually how it's pronounced though :) th-cam.com/video/klK4UZ5nlqs/w-d-xo.html
19:38 can you elaborate on this point? I’ve experimented with various forms of AI scaling on analog footage, and the results can vary quite a bit depending on the kind of footage (film, tape, etc.) and frameworks used.
at 18:51: how can I capture 480i when the RetroTINK-4K has only progressive output resolutions? :/
Please watch the video again - You missed the part about the zip file that included the 480i output mode. And demo’s that mode being enabled.