@@maruku4445 a lot of people, me included, thinks it's a horrible idea. I know there trying to sport oriented, but just like Boxing and MMA, people fuckin HATE the intirem championship. They don't really defend, lose them to other people, or worse, the intirem and real champion never meet. I hope this doesn't happen again
Mikey Whipwreck apparently said this in an interview about his first night in WCW. “Jimmy Hart told me I was winning in ten minutes. Kevin Sullivan told me I was losing in eight. Mike Graham told me I was getting DQ’d or something after only five minutes, setting something up for ‘Nitro.’ Finally, Arn Anderson told me to ignore everybody else and put [Billy] Kidman over in about fifteen. I was there two hours and I already hated the place.”
Perry saturn spoke about that as well with how he'd be told one thing and Kevin Sullivan would always tell him another to the point where it got perry heat. He had to have arn agent all his matches because arn could be trusted to tell him the right finish.
@@blacktytrix Question: What motivation would Sullivan have for doing that at this point? He was retired from in-ring work by the time Whipwreck signed, so what good would having people screw up finishes in the ring do him when relaying finishes was part of his job?
@@redjed100 not sure. Perry just spoke about his experiences and how he felt Kevin was a liar and a backstabber and gave that as evidence of it. Not sure if that was the case with Mikey too or if that was just the general confusion that was wcw lol. I'd have to rewatch the video, it's part of his youshoot, it's on youtube.
@@TheEWFX29 Mikey wasn't fired, that was his first match in WCW. He simply wasn't pushed and was misused after that, which can be said for a lot of the talent there at that time.
2 Cold Scorpio has taken responsibility for why he didn’t do well in WWE. It was mainly because he had a crack addiction that made him miss shows and when WWE gave him a chance to stay under contract while he attended rehab, he blew it. He was supposed to call JR on a Tuesday as a way to prove he was serious about getting sober off of coke but missed it and instead called the next day because he got high again so they let him go.
@@Brando-Lee3725 he definitely has a place with how innovative he truly was, I’m sure I’m time they’ll induct him eventually. according to him there’s 0 bad blood between him and Vince.
I saw Scorpio at an indie show in Pittsburgh in late 2007, against Samoa Joe of all people. His custom music hit and... The crowd didn't care. He looked old. He looked fat. It was sad. ...Then the match started. Much to everyone's surprise, Scorp and Joe tore the freaking house down. The man looked as good then as he did in the mid 90s. He received both a standing ovation and a very well deserved "please come back" chant. As far as I'm concerned, Scorpio is in the same "ageless wonder" category as Funk, Suzuki, PCO and Ricky Morton. Looks don't matter. Dude can GO.
I'm enjoying the thought of what was in Scorpio's head as he walked out, knowing he and Joe were about to tear it up. Something like... "I know it's 2007, and I'm 2 Cold Scorpio, and you don't care. I can hear you not caring right now. You don't know what I can do. You will."
I had to look that event up and it seems to be "IWC A Call To Arms 4 - Controlled Chaos @ Court Time Sports Center in Elizabeth, Pennsylvania, December 8, 2007."
2 Cold Scorpio is and always will be super underrated. He was a high flyer but not a small guy. He created a whole style a lot of the new generation ran with. He was the “giant” that younger wrestlers say they stood on the shoulders of.
And he's one of the few wrestlers who faced You Know Who and almost all of their matches would end in a draw, with a few victories on Scorpio's side, and only one loss on ECW Hardcore TV in 1995.
So true. I remember talking with Human Tornado at an indy event and he told me that Tucold was his favorite of all time and put me up on some Tucold Scorpio knowledge.
Taz said it best in "The Rise and Fall of ECW" DVD . "We were the Land of Misfit Toys" and it also Proves that The Original ECW was a product of The 1990's and could only live in that Decade (let's hope GCW can learn from ECW's mistakes)
Oh I bet Paul Heyman and Zandig are really jealous of Brett Lauderdale right now. He benefited from coming after them, but also to be more honest, he benefited from WWE finally figuring out how to get advertisers into the business, which meant all the US indies also found income streams that went beyond what the territories had
Or just keep it short and sweet. When he debuted in WCW, he could've just said something simple like "I'm here, and I'm Awesome" and it would've worked. Then just beat people up without saying much, kind of like Goldberg. Of course, with a writing team that insisted on "Fat Chick Thriller," it wouldn't have lasted. 🙄
Pretty much. WWF/E really could have pushed him by giving him a good mouthpiece but alas, not to be. That said, in WWF he wasn't the giant he was in ECW.
No, they became extreme and ended at exactly the right time in history. Calling them ahead of their time reflects poorly on the business nowadays. They had a very negative influence on the business that is still felt today.
I have to admit, the short time they were doing the Raven at home storyline I was actually really entertained by Sandman's Jim character. He's of course a hardcore legend, but if you remember that he's also a really smart guy, it seemed like he had a decent chance of pulling off that unlikely gimmick change. IDK, I feel like they should have stuck with the 'Jim' name going back to the ring and did a thing where Schiavone made a knowing wink to the camera like, you know who he really is but he insists we call him Jim. Imagine sitcom neighbor Sandman doing table and kendo sword spots with dad shorts and knee long socks. Adding a comedy, secret identity side to his gimmick could have worked if he stayed clean enough to pull it off. He didn't even get the chance.
I kinda like the idea that he had a double life, one is the preppy neighbour 'Jim' and the other being Sandman, like he has to hide all the barbed wire from his wife or it has a thing of him playing golf with other rich folk and it reveals that his golf bag is full of singapore cane's / kendo sticks.
@@Kaltagstar96 imagine a sorta split personality (not in the Wyatt/Fiend sense) in the idea that he acts the way he did as "Jim" until someone just reeeeeally gets on his nerve. I dunno, like Raven just says the wrong thing and while no one's looking - WHACK - a kendo stick to the face or something. "Jim" hides the stick and acts super concerned, etc. I mean maybe it wouldn't be a long shelf life, but I think he could pull it off well enough to get himself some attention with the higher ups.
@@christopherwall2121 Now I've got the headcanon of Jim encouraging Raven's behaviour, maybe Raven was going to turn out like a preppy rich kid only for 'Jim' / Sandman to steer him another direction, it would explain how Raven went from Johnny Polo to Raven.
One thing I'm pretty happy for with the WWE Network is showing me how super over The Public Enemy were in ECW and just how entertaining Rocco Rock could be. I do gotta say there are two sides to every story, we know what The APA says about what happened and what noted APA friend Bruce Prichard says, but we'll never get to hear PE's side of things. I don't think it's fair to them that they're remembered so much for that infamous match
In a perfect world, ECW became funded by The Funks. They were the only ones to make sense besides going back to Todd Keneley as I would presume Paul & Terry working together on Creative would've been cool.
Jerry Lynn went from Mr. JL in WCW to memorable feud with RVD and ECW champion to barely noticed cruiserweight champion in a dying division in WWF/E. That was pretty uninspired.
He then helped TNA really get off the ground in its early days, an unsung hero who helped usher in the X Division as the linchpin that made TNA enjoyable before Bischoff and Hogan ran it into the ground.
I actually enjoyed that vignette with Sandman in Raven's luxurious home. It seems ridiculous considering the history of these 2 but that's exactly why I love it
That's Wrestling Superstar Virgil to you, pal. but seriously, the only reason I could think of him having any kind of pull would be that Virgil was a member of the NWO and so was associated with Hulk Hogan, though he was definitely not a part of the Hulkster's inner circle the way Brother Bruti and the Nasty Boys were. Apparently just being Hogan-adjacent gives you a little bit of stroke.
Raven was an interesting case. He had been Johnny Polo and Scotty Flamingo, but he became Raven in ECW and brought Raven with him to both WCW and WWF to pretty decent results, comparatively speaking.
Oh this video is gonna be a good time, I can already tell! Also I will forever love The Blue Meanie in WM 2000 and we wouldn't have had that if it weren't for him jumping over
The funny thing with Shane Douglas is that, despite his eternal heat with The Kliq & even being a part of that class action lawsuit in 2016, he has never had any problem with being a part of various documentaries WWE produces, I think even appearing in more than Raven has! Guess someone over on the WWE's documentary team just really likes Shane, and we all know Shane absolutely relishes telling his side of a story.
Ahh, 2 cold scorpio. I honestly don't know how he wasn't pushed a lot more. He was almost always entertaining, and even in less then stellar matches, he knew how to shine. He's also still going today, which is amazing.
11:17 What Bradshaw is doing...that's probably the most savage succession of chair shots I've ever seen. God Damn. Bradshaw was really taking backstage issues out there.
Public Enemy in WCW was very, very over. Their theme song, the arm waving, etc made crowd's pop. Their use of the table was considering new and groundbreaking. They talked trash on the ay to the ring (Harlem Heat style) and it got people hooked. Hey loddy loddy, we likes to PARTY!
That chokeslam at 6:01 might be one of the worst I've ever seen. Maybe if the camera wasn't looking directly at them so you can see Douglas jump out of Scott's hand.
According to what I discovered on doing a late 90s wrestling deal was about Blue Meanie. He actually beat Marc Mero and retired him onscreen. The idea was Mero would return after time off. Instead its when him n Sable walked out of company behind the scenes. So the Meanie basically retired Mero lol
I Understand Brian When I Started Watching Wrestling in the mid 2000's watching Guys like Christian Cage and Kurt Angle Defect to TNA was life changing or Brock Lesnar to UFC in 08
I’d be so boiling mad if I was an ECW wrestler who dealt with PH’s shit only to watch him become the greatest manager of his generation and make millions doing it
Always bugged me about heyman, get away never paying talents or paying them all back but went on to make A lot of money, especially with Brock and roman.
Paul Heyman tells the story of 2 Cold Scorpio going to WWE in the "Ladies and Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman" documentary, while he's going over his time with ECW. It was part of a deal between WWE and ECW - Vince and Paul had a meeting in 1996. WWE sent a few guys to ECW, while WWE would continue paying their costs and contracts, so they could work with Paul and ECW and develop. Bracchus, Al Snow, Droz, a few others. But there were a few guys that Vince wanted to bring in from ECW (Paul mentions Terry Gordy), and one of them was 2 Cold Scorpio. At the time, Tommy Boy Records was sponsoring ECW for $1000 a week, to use Tommy Boy Records' music for 2 Cold Scorpio. So when he came on screen, they'd play the music, put a lower third, and usually cut to break with a splash screen thanking them, because the first commercial was always an ad for Tommy Boy Records. So sending 2 Cold Scorpio to WWE was a problem for Paul, because it'd cost them their sponsorship deal - but Vince agreed to pay $1000 per week for the right to use 2 Cold Scorpio, to cover the lost sponsorship. From that time in September 1996, the accounting shows the payment from WWE to ECW's parent company - $1000 per week, the rights to use 2 Cold Scorpio, to cover the sponsorship deal ECW would lose. (The point of the story in the documentary is because Paul wants to put to bed any notion that he personally was ever paid by WWE while working for ECW - he says he told Vince specifically to pay the $1000 per week directly to ECW, not him - but it's interesting in this other respect, regarding the transfer of talent between the two companies, 2 Cold Scorpio in particular.)
It should be noted that multiple people have said almost every word of that story is absolute nonsense. Tommy Boy records is adamant they never paid Paul E a cent, the advertisement was to deal in lieu paying them royalties they were owed. And Tommy boy have no reason to lie Vince was paying them, Heyman made up some nonsense.
I will never really understand why there are so many examples of company changes going wrong. You see what works, why change it so drastically or tone it down? "Ah mike awesome? That dudes a monster! He must love disco" "Sabu, the guy with all the death-defying stunts? Can't do that here but we'll take him anyway" Makes you realize just how goodpaul could be at utilizing talent since there are so many that fit perfectly into ecw and were used to their fullest while there.
Your thing about Sabu and his pants transitioning to the Public Enemy just gave me the visual of Sabu, with his typically snarling expression on his face, but still doing the Public Enemy dancing with Rocco and Grunge.
It cracked me up how you talked about teenage you just accepting Blue Meanie with no questions. All it took was “They came from ECW…” for me to just accept the craziest shit. If Hector Guerrero had popped up on Raw or Nitro in the turkey suit, the way to have sold me on it was “This started in ECW…” and I would have given it a chance unlike the real story.
I feel like Dreamer never got enough respect for the undying loyalty he showed to ECW as both wrestler and essentially being Heyman for the last part of the companies existence. Shame he ruined his reputation
I always thought Dreamer got way too much recognition, even in ECW. All he had was his loyalty to ECW and his ability to take a beating. He was abysmal in the ring, right up there with Sandman in terms of wrestling "ability". It was absolutely the right move for ECW to have Dreamer lose the title mere minutes after winning it.
As someone who hasn’t watched ECW in full yet on the network or anything, Almost moment I’ve ever seen with Dreamer is him getting beat the fuck up and losing. The only time I’ve seen that he’d win something is his tag team with Raven when they beat the Dudley Boyz for the championship, and his kendo stick match with Stevie Richards on a random Raw
I read Douglas' gimmick as the Dean made him a lot of enemies besides the Click because he exposed a lot of wrestlers' flaws in his breakdown promos. He definitely wasn't in the WWF to make friends.
9:35 For some reason, I don't know why, but for some reason I thought that when Sabu was pointing up, he was pointing at his Uncle Original Sheik in heaven. I forgot that the Original Sheik was still alive during that time and didn't die until January 18, 2003 according to Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheik_(wrestler), and Sabu had been doing the pointing for years before Original Sheik's passing. And here of course we see the Original Sheik with Sabu and Sabu was doing the pointing then. So I wonder why Sabu did the pointing???
Issue with Sandman is that, once you took his aesthetics away from him (His beer bashing, drinking and badass walk through the crowd) there just was...little to work with. Sandman could not wrestle, not in the "John Cena/Roman Reigns can't wrestle" hyperbole but he just could not work. Heyman's greatest strength was the ability to mask the weaknesses of his talent and specific circumstances of ECW (Mainly a lack of giving a shit of crowd or worker safety) led Sandman being one of its most popular acts. But that was never ever gonna be replicated anywhere else. And once the aesthetic was gone you just had a bit of a walking mess in the ring. Edited: Appreciate the correction Night Star.
BOOK PLUG: Brian Solomon’s “Blood and Fire” is a pretty dope biography on Original Sheik. Lot of wrestling folklore and by-god investigative journalism
I enjoyed public enemy in WCW and was so pumped for them going back to ECW. It was before the TNN deal so in Wisconsin the only way to watch was the ppvs every 3 months. Or of course the RF video kiosk in the mall of America. They didn’t stay long enough for a ppv match.
Wait, wait, wait, wait……are you trying to tell me that Mike Jones (who?), I mean Virg-Vincent had backstage pull? In late 1998? In a wrestling promotion?
Shane Douglas was my substitute English teacher when I was in 4th grade. 3 years later I stood behind him in line at a now-closed K-Mart while he was buying wood varnish. I knew it was him because he was wearing a Triple Threat t-shirt.
I’d honestly say Blue Meanie’s WWF run was shaping up to be pretty good, the Golddust stuff felt like a really natural fit, they cut that program way too early.
It’s nice to hear the other side of the story regarding the WWF and Public Enemy. If you watched The Forever Hardcore documentary where Terry Taylor discusses how they were brought in, you’d think the WWF were pure evil.
The Sandman as "Jim" stuff in WCW was actually written by Raven who was deconstructing his ECW character. It was going somewhere but Bischoff pulled the plug
I have a crackpot idea: Sandman as the clean cut Jim could've worked if they had him be a super white meat dude...until you got him pissed and he went full hardcore.
I don't know if Mustafa Saed counts as a defector. I'm not sure if his plan was to go to one of the big two when he jumped from ECW but instead he jumped into obscurity.
I never heard of this. I only know he wanted to out-hardcore New Jack in 1997, which didn't go well with the Original Gangsta. So Mustapha was gone and went to Puerto Rico.
4:19 I think it's a little unfair to dismiss Mike Awesome that way as not obviously relevant. When look at what he was doing in his prime and later years I see a lot of parallels to modern big men and how they work. Maybe I'm a little biased since Awesome was always someone I thought was really unique and stood out compared to all the other people he worked with. Besides that great video especially since I didn't know about most of these. I can't be the only one that thinks Sandman outside of ECW just looks wrong, right?
You have a good point! I think I was just trying to explain that he and Taz both did relatively well during the time period, all told, and that also Taz has since gone on to be a major fixture in wrestling. It was a bit clunky and unnecessary now that I think about it. No meaning to be disrespectful to Awesome or anyone on this list!
I believe what he meant by that is specifically how Taz has an active relevance in modern day wrestling by being a commentator and personality while Mike Awesome sadly passed away and isn't involved with wrestling anymore as a result.
@@WrestlingWithWregret OH! I though you were talking about their impact on modern wrestling in terms of how their styles impacted those after them. That's on me MB.
I was OK with Awesome not being a part of this list because even his terrible run in WCW was something compared to what the likes of Mikey Whipwreck got. Sad the way he went but as far as careers go, he still got a lot of TV time, a few decent pushes, and some good paydays. Even his frustrated career is something a lot of the other ECW and WCW guys wish they had
I thought Al Snow had a brief run early on in ECW. I distinctly remember him being billed as Dan Severn's training partner and Joey Styles putting him over as an underground darling of the magazines at the time.
@@nielsen145 yeah which is referenced in the video. But I thought and I may have my timeline off before he went to Smokey Mountain he had a brief stint in ECW and it was his first real exposure.
The tough part is when we talk about our favorites it may not be 'least remarkable' - i think Crowbar doesn't get enough credit as an ECW original who showed up in WCW during the monday night wars and made something great of it. If we wanna talk least remarkable defectors - I'll give you one that I'm surprised got no mention - Chris Candido.
I thought he mentioned Spike as someone who ultimately had a successful transition, but maybe I misheard. Even though WWE seemed to try its best to bury the cruiserweights (and ultimately succeeded with freaking Hornswoggle), Spike was a key player in that division with several others. I went from "There's no story around these guys. Why are they wrestling each other?" to "These guys are *wrestling* each other. Why is there no story around them?"
I Remember when Shane douglas left WWE in 1996 and Returned to ECW @ House Party 1996 and wasn't he still under contract with the WWF I had no idea of that until Joey Styles mentioned that @ ECW Heatwave 1996 sabu was awesome in ECW awesome Video Brian You're the best.
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Don't forget Vacant and Abeyance's 2nd cousin Interim.
I heard he’s really getting over in AEW
Or their 3rd cousin, Forfeit!
Nah. Am I the only one that thinks an Interim champion is just a bad idea?
I review weed products on my TH-cam channel as my job G 🔥i did a Mukbang inside Lowes, so i also do that dawg🦈
@@maruku4445 a lot of people, me included, thinks it's a horrible idea. I know there trying to sport oriented, but just like Boxing and MMA, people fuckin HATE the intirem championship. They don't really defend, lose them to other people, or worse, the intirem and real champion never meet. I hope this doesn't happen again
Mikey Whipwreck apparently said this in an interview about his first night in WCW. “Jimmy Hart told me I was winning in ten minutes. Kevin Sullivan told me I was losing in eight. Mike Graham told me I was getting DQ’d or something after only five minutes, setting something up for ‘Nitro.’ Finally, Arn Anderson told me to ignore everybody else and put [Billy] Kidman over in about fifteen. I was there two hours and I already hated the place.”
LOL thats hillirious
lol!
Perry saturn spoke about that as well with how he'd be told one thing and Kevin Sullivan would always tell him another to the point where it got perry heat. He had to have arn agent all his matches because arn could be trusted to tell him the right finish.
@@blacktytrix Question: What motivation would Sullivan have for doing that at this point? He was retired from in-ring work by the time Whipwreck signed, so what good would having people screw up finishes in the ring do him when relaying finishes was part of his job?
@@redjed100 not sure. Perry just spoke about his experiences and how he felt Kevin was a liar and a backstabber and gave that as evidence of it. Not sure if that was the case with Mikey too or if that was just the general confusion that was wcw lol. I'd have to rewatch the video, it's part of his youshoot, it's on youtube.
I love that Virgil complained that other wrestlers having good matches made him look bad, as if that was a contributing factor to why he looked bad.
It probably didn't help
@@TheEWFX29 I don't know, Virgil was probably really connected since he went back with the older guys.
@@TheEWFX29 Mikey wasn't fired, that was his first match in WCW. He simply wasn't pushed and was misused after that, which can be said for a lot of the talent there at that time.
I can't believe virgils word meant shit?
That's shitty to say I got sacked coz of virgil 😅😅
Rumor has it there are long lines at conventions NOT to get his autograph.
2 Cold Scorpio has taken responsibility for why he didn’t do well in WWE. It was mainly because he had a crack addiction that made him miss shows and when WWE gave him a chance to stay under contract while he attended rehab, he blew it. He was supposed to call JR on a Tuesday as a way to prove he was serious about getting sober off of coke but missed it and instead called the next day because he got high again so they let him go.
In my opinion 2 Cold IS HOF worthy !
@@Brando-Lee3725 he definitely has a place with how innovative he truly was, I’m sure I’m time they’ll induct him eventually. according to him there’s 0 bad blood between him and Vince.
It takes a real man to admit his drug addiction ruined his career. A real inspiration.
@@bigduke5902 true that . most would make excuses or throw blame
but wwe is super evil for wanting send addict to rehab :-0
I saw Scorpio at an indie show in Pittsburgh in late 2007, against Samoa Joe of all people. His custom music hit and... The crowd didn't care. He looked old. He looked fat. It was sad.
...Then the match started. Much to everyone's surprise, Scorp and Joe tore the freaking house down. The man looked as good then as he did in the mid 90s. He received both a standing ovation and a very well deserved "please come back" chant.
As far as I'm concerned, Scorpio is in the same "ageless wonder" category as Funk, Suzuki, PCO and Ricky Morton. Looks don't matter. Dude can GO.
I'm enjoying the thought of what was in Scorpio's head as he walked out, knowing he and Joe were about to tear it up.
Something like...
"I know it's 2007, and I'm 2 Cold Scorpio, and you don't care. I can hear you not caring right now. You don't know what I can do.
You will."
I had to look that event up and it seems to be "IWC A Call To Arms 4 - Controlled Chaos @ Court Time Sports Center in Elizabeth, Pennsylvania, December 8, 2007."
I saw him at the ECW Areana a few months ago. The guy can still go.
so do you. only with way less talent and notability.
Seen Scorpio in gcw and he’s a beast at old age
2 Cold Scorpio is and always will be super underrated. He was a high flyer but not a small guy. He created a whole style a lot of the new generation ran with. He was the “giant” that younger wrestlers say they stood on the shoulders of.
And he's one of the few wrestlers who faced You Know Who and almost all of their matches would end in a draw, with a few victories on Scorpio's side, and only one loss on ECW Hardcore TV in 1995.
So true. I remember talking with Human Tornado at an indy event and he told me that Tucold was his favorite of all time and put me up on some Tucold Scorpio knowledge.
@@ricardonb6375 ah, the ol' Crispy Noir
I always liked 2 cold and Marcus Alexander together in early 90s WCW. One of my favorite tag teams.
I remember when he was a dual champion in ECW and called himself 2 Gold Scorpio
Taz said it best in "The Rise and Fall of ECW" DVD . "We were the Land of Misfit Toys" and it also Proves that The Original ECW was a product of The 1990's and could only live in that Decade (let's hope GCW can learn from ECW's mistakes)
Um, GCW is basically dead due to faking positive COVID tests.
Oh I bet Paul Heyman and Zandig are really jealous of Brett Lauderdale right now. He benefited from coming after them, but also to be more honest, he benefited from WWE finally figuring out how to get advertisers into the business, which meant all the US indies also found income streams that went beyond what the territories had
This is literally the first time I’ve seen any “Raven’s friend Jim” footage and it’s kind of amazing in its own way
"It blew the next match of Stevie Ray and Vincent out of the water"
To be fair it was a low bar to jump.
I'm pretty sure the match between Julio Fantastico and 2 Cold Scorpio at Heroes of Wrestling would have blown Stevie Ray vs. Vincent out of the water.
While Blue Meanie in the WWF was a footnote, you can't deny he had one of the best entrance themes ever in the company.
HOO HOO HOO HOO HOO HOO
OHH YEEEEAAAAAAH
That song was on the trailer for the 3 ninjas movie with hulk hogan.
Nice enough guy, but how he ever got work I'll never know
Don't forget that amazing dance he does too in those Daisy dukes
Mike Awesome was so talented. He should have had a Paul Heyman-type mouthpiece to cover up his biggest weakness.
Or just keep it short and sweet. When he debuted in WCW, he could've just said something simple like "I'm here, and I'm Awesome" and it would've worked. Then just beat people up without saying much, kind of like Goldberg. Of course, with a writing team that insisted on "Fat Chick Thriller," it wouldn't have lasted. 🙄
He did, he that judge with him. Until the judge did a sexual assault and ECW fired him.
Pretty much. WWF/E really could have pushed him by giving him a good mouthpiece but alas, not to be. That said, in WWF he wasn't the giant he was in ECW.
We will always love these guys in ECW. They were ahead of their time.
No, they became extreme and ended at exactly the right time in history. Calling them ahead of their time reflects poorly on the business nowadays. They had a very negative influence on the business that is still felt today.
I have to admit, the short time they were doing the Raven at home storyline I was actually really entertained by Sandman's Jim character. He's of course a hardcore legend, but if you remember that he's also a really smart guy, it seemed like he had a decent chance of pulling off that unlikely gimmick change.
IDK, I feel like they should have stuck with the 'Jim' name going back to the ring and did a thing where Schiavone made a knowing wink to the camera like, you know who he really is but he insists we call him Jim. Imagine sitcom neighbor Sandman doing table and kendo sword spots with dad shorts and knee long socks. Adding a comedy, secret identity side to his gimmick could have worked if he stayed clean enough to pull it off. He didn't even get the chance.
I kinda like the idea that he had a double life, one is the preppy neighbour 'Jim' and the other being Sandman, like he has to hide all the barbed wire from his wife or it has a thing of him playing golf with other rich folk and it reveals that his golf bag is full of singapore cane's / kendo sticks.
@@Kaltagstar96 That's brilliant 😂😂😂
@@Kaltagstar96 imagine a sorta split personality (not in the Wyatt/Fiend sense) in the idea that he acts the way he did as "Jim" until someone just reeeeeally gets on his nerve. I dunno, like Raven just says the wrong thing and while no one's looking - WHACK - a kendo stick to the face or something. "Jim" hides the stick and acts super concerned, etc. I mean maybe it wouldn't be a long shelf life, but I think he could pull it off well enough to get himself some attention with the higher ups.
It would go well with Raven's WCW thing of being a spoiled rich kid who did his depressed grunge cult stuff essentially for laughs, I think
@@christopherwall2121 Now I've got the headcanon of Jim encouraging Raven's behaviour, maybe Raven was going to turn out like a preppy rich kid only for 'Jim' / Sandman to steer him another direction, it would explain how Raven went from Johnny Polo to Raven.
Fun fact : Flash Funk is not related to Terry or Dory Funk
Thanks for this. Hahahaha
Next you’re gonna tell me the Dudleyz aren’t real brothers. I won’t hear it.
One thing I'm pretty happy for with the WWE Network is showing me how super over The Public Enemy were in ECW and just how entertaining Rocco Rock could be. I do gotta say there are two sides to every story, we know what The APA says about what happened and what noted APA friend Bruce Prichard says, but we'll never get to hear PE's side of things. I don't think it's fair to them that they're remembered so much for that infamous match
Agree
God I miss the WWE network…
As a faithful ECW fan, it's sad to realize that Paul Heyman was the only dude to book these guys right
If he only paid them as well as he booked them.
@@kevinramsey417 My personal Dream Promotion would see Heyman as Head of Creative. My personal Nightmare Promotion would see him as Head of Finances
In a perfect world, ECW became funded by The Funks. They were the only ones to make sense besides going back to Todd Keneley as I would presume Paul & Terry working together on Creative would've been cool.
@@nbr6116 Vince Russo head of creative, Paul Heyman as the head of finance, Jim Cornette as the PR guy.
@@kevinramsey417 $$$>Booking
Jerry Lynn went from Mr. JL in WCW to memorable feud with RVD and ECW champion to barely noticed cruiserweight champion in a dying division in WWF/E. That was pretty uninspired.
It was the Light Heavyweight Championship you’re thinking, but yes, you’re spot on with this comment.
He then helped TNA really get off the ground in its early days, an unsung hero who helped usher in the X Division as the linchpin that made TNA enjoyable before Bischoff and Hogan ran it into the ground.
I think his work in both TNA and ROH prevents him from being on this list.
You must admit that Sandman showed range as Raven's neighbor.
Sober sandman is really weird.
@@Dwainecurtis2001 Sober Sandman’s promos were pretty good imo
I actually enjoyed that vignette with Sandman in Raven's luxurious home. It seems ridiculous considering the history of these 2 but that's exactly why I love it
Imagine getting your career sabotage by freaking Virgil now that’s the most WCW thing I ever heard
This also confused me. How the hell did Virgil have pull in WCW backstage? We really had no idea what the dynamics of that locker room was really like
@@RyanParreno exactly out of wrestlers to have stroke virgil would be my last choice
That's Wrestling Superstar Virgil to you, pal. but seriously, the only reason I could think of him having any kind of pull would be that Virgil was a member of the NWO and so was associated with Hulk Hogan, though he was definitely not a part of the Hulkster's inner circle the way Brother Bruti and the Nasty Boys were. Apparently just being Hogan-adjacent gives you a little bit of stroke.
@@kevinramsey417 then again if freaking disco could join the Wolfpack anything it’s possible in the land of WCW
@@RyanParreno Apparently Disco was really powerful, I think it's just who you know.
Raven was an interesting case. He had been Johnny Polo and Scotty Flamingo, but he became Raven in ECW and brought Raven with him to both WCW and WWF to pretty decent results, comparatively speaking.
Brought Raven to TNA as well and was the NWA world champ with the character
Raven with the flock was great.
@SpockvsEgon, also his run in TNA, as Raven, where he won the NWA world title.
Good to see Vacant looking so well after all the wars....
Oh this video is gonna be a good time, I can already tell!
Also I will forever love The Blue Meanie in WM 2000 and we wouldn't have had that if it weren't for him jumping over
Al Snow deadass trained a former ufc champion and legend in MMA...that shit is so nuts in the era where ppl didn't care about coaches yet
The funny thing with Shane Douglas is that, despite his eternal heat with The Kliq & even being a part of that class action lawsuit in 2016, he has never had any problem with being a part of various documentaries WWE produces, I think even appearing in more than Raven has! Guess someone over on the WWE's documentary team just really likes Shane, and we all know Shane absolutely relishes telling his side of a story.
He also suffers from CM Punk-syndrome, where he clearly thinks than he was bigger than he actually was
Mikey Whipwreck got buried by Virgil? Yikes
Also glad someone acknowledged that Scorpio got done dirty.
Ahh, 2 cold scorpio. I honestly don't know how he wasn't pushed a lot more. He was almost always entertaining, and even in less then stellar matches, he knew how to shine. He's also still going today, which is amazing.
11:17 What Bradshaw is doing...that's probably the most savage succession of chair shots I've ever seen. God Damn. Bradshaw was really taking backstage issues out there.
That's what happens when you combine being a dick about everything to everyone and contact performance.
Being a prick like always
Someone should've revoked his chair swingin' usage back then
yeah, according to the dudleys the match that was shown on tv was cut down, cus it was *that* violent
A performer whose capability to entertain was surpassed by his caustic bullying
I find it hilarious that Brian calls Sabu Bu and Sandman Sandy
Glad to finally see Vacant getting booked properly
Public Enemy in WCW was very, very over. Their theme song, the arm waving, etc made crowd's pop. Their use of the table was considering new and groundbreaking. They talked trash on the ay to the ring (Harlem Heat style) and it got people hooked.
Hey loddy loddy, we likes to PARTY!
That chokeslam at 6:01 might be one of the worst I've ever seen. Maybe if the camera wasn't looking directly at them so you can see Douglas jump out of Scott's hand.
Trent learned it from him then!
Say what you will about the flash funk gimmick: that theme was an absolute banger
According to what I discovered on doing a late 90s wrestling deal was about Blue Meanie. He actually beat Marc Mero and retired him onscreen. The idea was Mero would return after time off. Instead its when him n Sable walked out of company behind the scenes. So the Meanie basically retired Mero lol
It was actually Gillberg who retired Mero. Blue Meanie just helped
@@ricardonb6375 Your right. I had read it wrong and thought Meanie was Mero's final WWE match.
Look I dunno about you but I think Sandman being Raven’s preppy neighbor and then being a hardcore bastard in the ring would’ve been a cool gimmick 😂
Ah yes, the real reason the Radicalz leaving WCW was such a big deal...Perry Saturn's cool hat went with them!
It ended up on Ron Simmons head when he led the Nation of Domination
I Understand Brian When I Started Watching Wrestling in the mid 2000's watching Guys like Christian Cage and Kurt Angle Defect to TNA was life changing or Brock Lesnar to UFC in 08
15:40 Is it just me or was Sandman and Kanyon doing the Jerry and Newman bit from Seinfeld?
“Hello Jerry…Hello Newman”
“Hello Jim…Hello Kanyon”
It's VACANT and his younger brother, OBEYING.
Kevin Owens: "LIAR! HE'S A LIAR!"
Big pop for the Johnny Dangerously clip
Kid Kash, the pride of Waynesboro. Well, him and spandex
I’d be so boiling mad if I was an ECW wrestler who dealt with PH’s shit only to watch him become the greatest manager of his generation and make millions doing it
Always bugged me about heyman, get away never paying talents or paying them all back but went on to make A lot of money, especially with Brock and roman.
Paul Heyman tells the story of 2 Cold Scorpio going to WWE in the "Ladies and Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman" documentary, while he's going over his time with ECW.
It was part of a deal between WWE and ECW - Vince and Paul had a meeting in 1996. WWE sent a few guys to ECW, while WWE would continue paying their costs and contracts, so they could work with Paul and ECW and develop. Bracchus, Al Snow, Droz, a few others. But there were a few guys that Vince wanted to bring in from ECW (Paul mentions Terry Gordy), and one of them was 2 Cold Scorpio.
At the time, Tommy Boy Records was sponsoring ECW for $1000 a week, to use Tommy Boy Records' music for 2 Cold Scorpio. So when he came on screen, they'd play the music, put a lower third, and usually cut to break with a splash screen thanking them, because the first commercial was always an ad for Tommy Boy Records. So sending 2 Cold Scorpio to WWE was a problem for Paul, because it'd cost them their sponsorship deal - but Vince agreed to pay $1000 per week for the right to use 2 Cold Scorpio, to cover the lost sponsorship. From that time in September 1996, the accounting shows the payment from WWE to ECW's parent company - $1000 per week, the rights to use 2 Cold Scorpio, to cover the sponsorship deal ECW would lose.
(The point of the story in the documentary is because Paul wants to put to bed any notion that he personally was ever paid by WWE while working for ECW - he says he told Vince specifically to pay the $1000 per week directly to ECW, not him - but it's interesting in this other respect, regarding the transfer of talent between the two companies, 2 Cold Scorpio in particular.)
It should be noted that multiple people have said almost every word of that story is absolute nonsense. Tommy Boy records is adamant they never paid Paul E a cent, the advertisement was to deal in lieu paying them royalties they were owed. And Tommy boy have no reason to lie
Vince was paying them, Heyman made up some nonsense.
I will never really understand why there are so many examples of company changes going wrong. You see what works, why change it so drastically or tone it down?
"Ah mike awesome? That dudes a monster! He must love disco"
"Sabu, the guy with all the death-defying stunts? Can't do that here but we'll take him anyway"
Makes you realize just how goodpaul could be at utilizing talent since there are so many that fit perfectly into ecw and were used to their fullest while there.
"Screw the Disco, you know what's really gonna get Mike over Fat Chick Thriller!"
Honestly Sandmans Entrance at ECW One Night Stand is still one of the Greatest entrances ever.
His return to ECW in 1999 is my second fav moment in wrestling ever. That crowd went nuts.
Your thing about Sabu and his pants transitioning to the Public Enemy just gave me the visual of Sabu, with his typically snarling expression on his face, but still doing the Public Enemy dancing with Rocco and Grunge.
Virgil used backstage politics to sabotage whipwreck wow those wwf defectors really had it all
It’s so stupid Virgil barely wrestled in wcw outside just standing around and getting beat up by wcw faces Mickey should’ve had a fair shot
It cracked me up how you talked about teenage you just accepting Blue Meanie with no questions. All it took was “They came from ECW…” for me to just accept the craziest shit. If Hector Guerrero had popped up on Raw or Nitro in the turkey suit, the way to have sold me on it was “This started in ECW…” and I would have given it a chance unlike the real story.
I feel like Dreamer never got enough respect for the undying loyalty he showed to ECW as both wrestler and essentially being Heyman for the last part of the companies existence.
Shame he ruined his reputation
Loyalty/the big 2 weren't intrested
I always thought Dreamer got way too much recognition, even in ECW. All he had was his loyalty to ECW and his ability to take a beating. He was abysmal in the ring, right up there with Sandman in terms of wrestling "ability". It was absolutely the right move for ECW to have Dreamer lose the title mere minutes after winning it.
@@flyabusa 💯
@@flyabusa I was gonna argue you’re wrong about dreamers technical ability but then I was like dang he’s got a cool username
As someone who hasn’t watched ECW in full yet on the network or anything, Almost moment I’ve ever seen with Dreamer is him getting beat the fuck up and losing.
The only time I’ve seen that he’d win something is his tag team with Raven when they beat the Dudley Boyz for the championship, and his kendo stick match with Stevie Richards on a random Raw
911 had a pretty sad run in WCW. I think they called him Tombstone.
Al Snow was in ECW before the Monday night wars , had a dope match with Beniot even
On a side note, you impression of Captain Lou and the phrase, "Billy, Billy, Billy!" has woven itself into my everyday vernacular.
I read Douglas' gimmick as the Dean made him a lot of enemies besides the Click because he exposed a lot of wrestlers' flaws in his breakdown promos. He definitely wasn't in the WWF to make friends.
Simon Diamond, he had a very "meh" type of career in TNA in the early to mid 2000s; currently he makes random appearances in NWA, that is it.
Kanyon taking that slap on the back and doing a flip into the pool LMAO 🤣
Shane Douglas as a teacher? I see where Matt Striker got his inspiration for the educator gimmick then.
Matt Striker WAS a teacher in real life
@@meirnissim5927 Yeah. Real life can inspire some gimmicks you know.
9:35 For some reason, I don't know why, but for some reason I thought that when Sabu was pointing up, he was pointing at his Uncle Original Sheik in heaven. I forgot that the Original Sheik was still alive during that time and didn't die until January 18, 2003 according to Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheik_(wrestler), and Sabu had been doing the pointing for years before Original Sheik's passing. And here of course we see the Original Sheik with Sabu and Sabu was doing the pointing then. So I wonder why Sabu did the pointing???
To motion that's he's going for a high move
@@ricardonb6375 but at 9:35 he's doing the pointing right at the start of the entrance
@@naitthegr8131 Maybe he started doing it during matches and then incorporated it into his entrance?
I love this ECW kick you're on Brian
I always assumed that Blue Meanie's face paint and name were taken from that animated Beatles Yellow Submarine movie.
I think that's true
I wish Too Cold Scorpio WAS on this list. I would love to see some kind of spotlight on his career. He was and is criminally underrated.
He could get his own video
Issue with Sandman is that, once you took his aesthetics away from him (His beer bashing, drinking and badass walk through the crowd) there just was...little to work with. Sandman could not wrestle, not in the "John Cena/Roman Reigns can't wrestle" hyperbole but he just could not work. Heyman's greatest strength was the ability to mask the weaknesses of his talent and specific circumstances of ECW (Mainly a lack of giving a shit of crowd or worker safety) led Sandman being one of its most popular acts.
But that was never ever gonna be replicated anywhere else. And once the aesthetic was gone you just had a bit of a walking mess in the ring.
Edited: Appreciate the correction Night Star.
hyperbole is the word you're looking for, chum.
There's a tremendous irony that ECW, the company that gave zero fucks about using copyrighted material, wouldn't let Sandman use his name in WCW.
12:58 Brian chanelling his half-brother, AVGN
"What were they thinking?!"
I'm totally making a James Rolfe and Brian Zane tag team in WWE 2K22.
There's a certain Coach Z vibe to Abeyance.
BOOK PLUG: Brian Solomon’s “Blood and Fire” is a pretty dope biography on Original Sheik. Lot of wrestling folklore and by-god investigative journalism
mick foley was briefly mentioned at the end. he doesnt apply either as he was on loan from wcw.
I enjoyed public enemy in WCW and was so pumped for them going back to ECW. It was before the TNN deal so in Wisconsin the only way to watch was the ppvs every 3 months. Or of course the RF video kiosk in the mall of America. They didn’t stay long enough for a ppv match.
Wait, wait, wait, wait……are you trying to tell me that Mike Jones (who?), I mean Virg-Vincent had backstage pull? In late 1998? In a wrestling promotion?
I'll side with Scott Hall with this opinion of "The Franchise", Shane Douglas was so overrated
That magazine cover had some....interesting matchups (Ahmed Johnson vs. Ric Flair?????) But I do believe that Goldust/Savage would've ruled.
Shane Douglas was my substitute English teacher when I was in 4th grade. 3 years later I stood behind him in line at a now-closed K-Mart while he was buying wood varnish. I knew it was him because he was wearing a Triple Threat t-shirt.
For Shane Douglass's entry, you should have included the part where he asked Michigan if they were ready for a revolution when WCW was in Mississippi.
I’d honestly say Blue Meanie’s WWF run was shaping up to be pretty good, the Golddust stuff felt like a really natural fit, they cut that program way too early.
I don't know if he's still there but Blue Meanie was one of the trainers at the Monster Factory in South Jersey a few years back.
Helped prepare a lot of future WWE stars too
Shouts to vacant. The greatest champion ever
It’s nice to hear the other side of the story regarding the WWF and Public Enemy. If you watched The Forever Hardcore documentary where Terry Taylor discusses how they were brought in, you’d think the WWF were pure evil.
That's gotta be Abeyance
The Sandman as "Jim" stuff in WCW was actually written by Raven who was deconstructing his ECW character. It was going somewhere but Bischoff pulled the plug
Kevin Owens: "NOOOOO NO NO NO NO WE'RE NOT DOING THIS AGAIN! YOU'RE NOT ABEYANCE, YOU'RE VACANT... IN A WIG! JUST BECAUSE YO--AAAHH!"
That ad read was the funniest shit I've seen this week, and it was full of swerves, too!
I have a crackpot idea: Sandman as the clean cut Jim could've worked if they had him be a super white meat dude...until you got him pissed and he went full hardcore.
I don't know if Mustafa Saed counts as a defector. I'm not sure if his plan was to go to one of the big two when he jumped from ECW but instead he jumped into obscurity.
I never heard of this. I only know he wanted to out-hardcore New Jack in 1997, which didn't go well with the Original Gangsta. So Mustapha was gone and went to Puerto Rico.
The Blue Meanie was in Wrestlemania 2000, that's success in my book.
I wouldn't say so. WM2000 and No Mercy are two of the most ridiculously overrated games in all of recorded human history.
@@the-NightStar No Mercy is Overrated tho, u right about that!
@@the-NightStar 'Overrated' doesn't mean 'bad'. Miles better than being only playable on the Acclaim games for example.
Sandman’s suburban neighbor gimmick fits him so well
4:19 I think it's a little unfair to dismiss Mike Awesome that way as not obviously relevant. When look at what he was doing in his prime and later years I see a lot of parallels to modern big men and how they work. Maybe I'm a little biased since Awesome was always someone I thought was really unique and stood out compared to all the other people he worked with. Besides that great video especially since I didn't know about most of these. I can't be the only one that thinks Sandman outside of ECW just looks wrong, right?
You have a good point! I think I was just trying to explain that he and Taz both did relatively well during the time period, all told, and that also Taz has since gone on to be a major fixture in wrestling. It was a bit clunky and unnecessary now that I think about it. No meaning to be disrespectful to Awesome or anyone on this list!
I believe what he meant by that is specifically how Taz has an active relevance in modern day wrestling by being a commentator and personality while Mike Awesome sadly passed away and isn't involved with wrestling anymore as a result.
@@WrestlingWithWregret OH! I though you were talking about their impact on modern wrestling in terms of how their styles impacted those after them. That's on me MB.
I was OK with Awesome not being a part of this list because even his terrible run in WCW was something compared to what the likes of Mikey Whipwreck got. Sad the way he went but as far as careers go, he still got a lot of TV time, a few decent pushes, and some good paydays. Even his frustrated career is something a lot of the other ECW and WCW guys wish they had
Hearing some Coach Z in Abeyance's voice. :D
Vacant and vacant the goat tag team, wwe can't even bury them
Cool story but I met the guy who created the original ecw world title design at mania 37 very cool dude and made other title designs too
I thought Al Snow had a brief run early on in ECW. I distinctly remember him being billed as Dan Severn's training partner and Joey Styles putting him over as an underground darling of the magazines at the time.
Al Snow was there and was also there, the head was invented
He not only was his training partner he coached him to his first ufc championship
@@marvellesaulsberry Al Snow was in his corner for when he nearly won the UFC 4 tournament
@@nielsen145 yeah which is referenced in the video. But I thought and I may have my timeline off before he went to Smokey Mountain he had a brief stint in ECW and it was his first real exposure.
17:49, nice to see that ECW got a decent ladder at some point.
Even as a staunch ECW mark, it was tough to defend how ridiculous that ladder with the paint-can shelf looked in a ring.
So Shane's greatest WCW highlight was beating a Hugh G Reaction, huh?
The tough part is when we talk about our favorites it may not be 'least remarkable' - i think Crowbar doesn't get enough credit as an ECW original who showed up in WCW during the monday night wars and made something great of it. If we wanna talk least remarkable defectors - I'll give you one that I'm surprised got no mention - Chris Candido.
ECW guys tended to have a similar stigma to XPW guys. Most looked so bush league when they jumped to the big time.
The *real* #1 is a number we all have to dial for a medical emergency...
I actaully liked Public Enemy's WCW run. No, they weren't very talented but I'm a sucker for a good table spot. What about Spike Dudley though?
I thought he mentioned Spike as someone who ultimately had a successful transition, but maybe I misheard. Even though WWE seemed to try its best to bury the cruiserweights (and ultimately succeeded with freaking Hornswoggle), Spike was a key player in that division with several others.
I went from "There's no story around these guys. Why are they wrestling each other?" to "These guys are *wrestling* each other. Why is there no story around them?"
SD had a good run for what he was in WWF. He was never going to be a main eventer in WWF, but he lasted quite a while their relatively.
I Remember when Shane douglas left WWE in 1996 and Returned to ECW @ House Party 1996 and wasn't he still under contract with the WWF I had no idea of that until Joey Styles mentioned that @ ECW Heatwave 1996 sabu was awesome in ECW awesome Video Brian You're the best.
That ad was top notch.
EZ Money had some awesome moves
Vacant, the only wrestler to have held more titles than Jerry Lawler.
"And graded the performance of other wrestlers"
"Everyone knows that job's for folks like me!"
Christian Maracle: And me too...... Kinda!
*DING*