I drove Tesla Model 3 SR+ LFP until the car stopped
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2022
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The buffer is variable in the LFP Model 3s. When BMS is calibrated, the buffer falls to around 2.5 kWh
6:40 heater or not, I would not feel comfortable driving with 0% 😁
Great video as always!
“Don’t be a zero hero” - Good advice from Uncle Bjørn! 😀
am i the only one that goes crazy for these zero battery tests? 🤔 Asking for a friend ..... 🤓
I absolutely love them!
My favorite test series
Love them too
The more stupid stats the better!!
Yes. Ok, no 😁
I think the acceleration test at 5% is a new test standard for all future cars.
I expect some car to shut down because of "overload" protection
@@darekmistrz4364 Than I want to know which cars to avoid.
@@valtersvasilis Literally all cars would shut down if the voltage drops too much under accelleration
This is a fantastic video and couldn't be a more perfect timing. Picked up my September delivered M3 RWD and have noticed from multiple trips that my maximum usable capacity is 52kWh, confirmed with over 12 others here in irelands also September delivery. This means a buffer of 8-8.5kWh.
Quarter 1 an 2 M3 RWD 2022 from China don't seem to have this excessive buffer and have a higher usable capacity of 55-56kWh. Out if the 60.5kWh.
Anyway again fairplay for doing the video and pushing the limits as always 👍
I have the same vehicle with smt and from my experience you have to charge to 100% and then leave it for a few hours like 4-5 then the buffer calibrates with the resting voltage. It wont hurt the battery because it balances and the voltage drops to safer levels after a few hours. If you charge to 100% seldom you have to do this once in a while. The secret is to leave it at that. If you charge to 100% and then directly leave it wont calibrate. What i do ist when i plan a trip or just drive to work every once in a while i set the limit to 100% so that it finishes a few hours before leaving and then i dont have to leave it at 100% all day.
I have read somewhere that if not charged to 100% for a long time LFP battery's BMS makes bigger part of buffer to be on safe side
This is what's happening. BMS can't estimate the remaining battery %, plays it safe
I just took delivery of mine and noticed some weird jumps in the state of charge, especially when going to lower state of charge. For example I would park the car with 12% and after sitting a few hours it would show me 14%. My theory is: Tesla delivers these cars with very conservative estimates of where 0% state of charge is. Then every car learns its own actual 0% over time. The weirdness sotped when I drained it once to 0% and recharged to 100% for calibration. As your car hasn't done one full charge circle (200km) I think you experienced the same. Maybe retest with more than 1000km, well calibrated. Than it will probably be less weird.
Really enjoy your content!
@Bjørn Nyland 12:56 deactivate X-Boost for non resistive loads..
The ecoflow lowers the voltage to reduce the load but the charging brick increases the amp's until the voltage is to low. Then it starts all over.
Without X-Boost the voltage is held constant until overload protection kicks in.
Thanks for the tip :)
It would be nice to test a classic NMC Tesla model 3 with 2 years and some Km to see the beginning of aging on the 0% béhavior … Thanks Bjorn
It went over 50km after 0% and people are complaining. geez.
Dunno if it was a coincidence but it looked like the afterburners waited until the SOC was above 0% before kicking in.
And wow, it’ll go further below zero than some older EVs can manage above zero!
My gut feeling. It has very low distance on odometer. Maybe BMS didn't learn this battery pack yet well. That would be great to repeat test with the same car in few thousand km.
I've 4000km on mine and tried all the calibration tricks. None of them work on this version that have been built in the second half of 2022
@@mchammer1982 same here. Only 52kWh usable capacity out of 60.5kWh. Clocked almost 2000km already.
had same thoughts, propably virgin BMS, neither unbalanced cell voltage
I am looking forward to the MEB cars test, they are very popular cars, and I think a lot of people want to see what the result would be. Thank for the awesome tests man!
almost feels like BMS doesn't know the full capacity of the battery installed.. thanks for the test Bjørn!
Yes, it is difficult to estimate the remaining energy on LFP packs. What Tesla have done is actually so remarkable. They are hiding energy, because they know they cannot predict well the remaining energy. So it is better to be cautious.
I appreciate you waiting to see when the car shuts down Bjørn!! I was really curious myself
In some videos it just isn't enough with a thumbs up! Great work from the elbil wizard.
Love these videos. Any plans for revisit the ID4 for this test?
Very nice ! Well done Bjorn
Thanks for showing cell voltage!
awesome test. Thanks.
the Problem ist, that this car didnt have a calibrated battery. IT seems like it never was at 100%. mine had this big buffer too when it was new, now IT hast only 2,5 kWh*h/h buffer. i can Imagine that it behaves like the other teslas, with some more cycles on the bms
I wonder if the voltage behaviour of the LFP at really low Soc means that giving a graduated loss of Power is not possible. Maybe they should use an assumed profile below zero to manage driver expectations and behaviour, and throttle anyway even if it technically is not necessary. Maybe they want to get the largest range possible in actual full to empty testing ignoring the miles remaining display, just for the spec sheets. Restricting power should not reduce range though, so that doesn’t add up.
LFP is near impossible to detemine SOC by voltage because of the nearly flat discharge curve. Top voltage of 3.65 down to 3.45 is roughly only 5%, and 3.45 volts down to 3.0 is 90% of the capacity with the remaining 5% from 3.0 down to 2.5 volts when it falls off a cliff. The BMS can only guess the SOC by using an algorithm combining voltage and the amount of energy discharged since the last full charge.
If a power limit were applied based on this, it would cause problems of not slowing the car in cold weather to warn the driver because of less energy being discharged and slowing the car too soon because of more energy being discharged in warm weather.
I think that is why Tesla put such a big buffer in the bottom end of LFP to account for this variation since LFP is more temperature sensitive compared to NCA or NMC. It doesn't need the buffer for cycle life since LFP will last 2000 full charge and discharge cycles.
Awesome video as always!
And we have „STAU“ man, you are killing me.
Find es voll super wenn du deutsch redest 🤣
Regards from 🇦🇹
Fascinating. Now waiting for this to appear on Fox and InfoWars with ‘Tesla owner has to drive carrying spare batteries because it suddenly runs out and leaves him stranded !’ 😂
Cool :)
High peak charging rate (even at relatively high SOC) is the magic of silicon in the anode. Not all EV manufacturers use this advantage.
I would say it was really impressive Bjorn! Most people would never reach 0%. And in this test you came so much further after zero. I know you spoke about degradation, but isn’t that less of an issue with LFP batteries?
From watching your movies I would say it is on top, except for possibly model Y. In a real world situation the Teslas would be the cars to choose :)
And so much safer to have most of the power available until the battery dies
I hope you can record and publish the charging curve in another video. My Fremont 2022 M3 RWD seems to charge faster than in your last video that showed the 60Kwhr LFP charging curve.
Model 3 RWD, is its name with 60kwh, last year I ordered the Model 3 RWD, and during the 4-month delivery time just before I received the car things changed, I received the Model 3 RWD with the bigger battery pack and I think slower acceleration.
Thanks for doing this! The cut off sure was sudden! I think the lowest I have ever taken my M3 LFP is about 5% and ideally I like to arrive with 10 - 20% left. BTW there is a lot of conflicting information out there that you may be able to comment on:
1. Does it do damage to a LFP running it down to 0% (like it does with many other Lithium chemistries)? Some say yes and some say no. Will it last longer if I don't discharge below say 20%?
2. Tesla recommends always charging at home to 100%. I know his primarily helps recalibrate the BMS, but presumably if I'm not driving the car for 2 or 3 weeks I'm still better off keeping it at say 50% charge limit?
Damn, too bad nobody is answering this. GOOD, very practical questions!
Excellent questions I would love to see addressed with LFP's as well. Thx.
@@richh650 This video from Cleanerwatt I saw recently has some more info on this. th-cam.com/video/suw20wPrbL0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Cleanerwatt
My reading of the user manual is yes to question 1 and keep charge limit to 100% for question 2.
i can answer question 2. Tesla recommends this for user convenience. they dont want to explain why it needs to charge to 100%. from my research that recommendation is just for the general fool. for people like us who watch Bjorn's videos we know better. What I do is i keep it as close to 50% as i can. i only recalibrate once ever couple months. recalibration is only really important if you plan on doing a road trip. but if you plan on doing a road trip you need to charge to 100% anyway so you actually kill two birds with one stone. Even though LFP batteries are a lot more resistant than NCA they are still LI batteries which makes it bad to charge to 100%. Tesla LFP batteries are rated for 1500 charge cycles but if you treat it like a NCA batter you will get around 2500-3500 charge cycles. Moral of the story is that you should go against teslas recommendation and try and minimize charging to 100%. only charge to 100% to check battery degradation or recalibrate before a road trip. if you were to cycle from 60% to 40% every day recalibration doesn't really matter for you
love the controlled tests, but would ecoflow helps when you are on a family trip? that would be a nice real world test
Wow 7kw in reserve... Very good to know and yes I do have scan my tesla 😁
Yeah I think you're right once the voltage hits threshold the car calls it quits and that's only going to be more pronounced in extreme cold temperatures.
56km emergency range is fantastic. Obviously you'd hope never to use that but, it gets you to a charger when all hope is lost.
Hi thanks for the videos, at the beginning of the test the SUC is 22,6% with 19 kwh expected remaining, I think the battery is not calibrated correctly, 22% of 60kwh is 13 kwh remaining and not 19. For that the 7 kwh "extra". Maybe this test has to be repeated with more kms in the odometer. Thanks!!
Can you try doing some of these tests on the cars more likely to run out of juice on a trip - the small battery cars like Mini S E / Smart Electric/ Honda E etc. I know they aren’t designed for road tripping but for city driving but where I live it takes for ever to get public chargers repaired after they go down so sometimes going close to zero is a fact of life……….
Is this test realistic when the car only has 250km on it? Does the new LFP battery know its end points already at that age?
250km is not even 1 full cycle, makes sense to get "older" car for something like that
It seems to have 112 cells in series. The BMS allows the battery to be discharged way to low. Ideal will be to not allow any driving when lowest cell is below 2.8V and completely disconnect the battery if any cell drops below 2.5V.
2,5V under load is for non LFP batteries, because LFP has on avarage ~0,5 lover voltage, 2.0V under load for LFP would be hard limit and we saw in Bjorn's video it's at 2.3V with minimal load. Note these values are for measuring capacity, in real world I think BMS don't go that low.
You are talking about NMC (3.7V nominal voltage). That car has LFP (3.2 nominal voltage). Cut-off point in LFP is much lower than in NMC!
@@asaha7547 There was basically no load when lowest cell was at 2.3V. I know it is LiFePO4 that is also what powers my house.
I also designed my own BMS and I read plenty of LiFePO4 specs to know that 2.5V is absolutely the lowest limit.
If the vehicle was left for even 24h with that low cell at 2.3V the small drain from the standby electronics will have damaged that pack.
There is no reason to go below 2.8V as there is no significant energy left at that point and the risk of damaging the cells is supper high.
Tesla seems to just count on the fact that majority of the owner will likely never deeply discharge the battery same as I never had an empty gas tank and was only once on the red likely about 5 liters left.
@@electrodacus yeah, nobody will drive a long time below 0%, if at all. So it is good to have the reserve but it is good not to use it to save battery life.
Niiice Bjorn! But if I was you, I would get those bricks out of the trunk before charging, and let them sit for a while after charging. (If possible)
How interesting. Could you by any chance do the same with a non LFP 2019 SR+? That's the one that I have and was extremely popular in UK so would be good to share this with the community here.
non LFP SR+ would behave like LR
Bjorn - do you want to test two Model Y’s in convoy? I’ve already got the Shanghai LR MY and a Berlin SR MY due in 4 weeks - I’ll lend you both for a side by side road test of range and charging. I’ve done 15000km in the MY LR since June and on long road trips across Europe it needs less time at chargers than I need for restroom and restaurant stops! So I want to see if the SR is better suited to my need for more frequent rest breaks 😂
Hei Bjørn! Could you do a similar test with a Polestar 2? Preferably with a Long Range Single Motor? :)
Hey Bjorn, could you test the Vision automatic high beams again? People are going crazy here because they keep blinding oncoming traffic :/
bad calibration?
I can confirm i have to disable them every time i engage autopilot because they keep going to highbeem whith opposite trafic. After each lane change with basic autopilot! Crazy
Hello Bjorn will you make a vid about VW is asking the owners of around 10,000 ID.3 and ID.4 electric cars worldwide to visit the workshops. Battery cells could show an increased self-discharge due to a manufacturing defect.
The buffer was too high to be confident with its value.
Can you try with an LFP55 (SR+ 2021) with a buffer of 2.4-2.5 ?
Also, Driving below 0% will likely increase the degradation of the battery. I try to find a charger at around 10-5% (Depending where I am, not always a charger within 10% so sometimres even more, though mostly it charges at home. I"ve done trips where I gotten to a charger a 1%, and ONCE at 0 (It was a cold, cold day, and I was trying not to get with 0%)
Was that a Dead Alive (Braindead in some countries) movie quote? “I kick ass for the Lord”. Lol.
Dose running the battery down so low till the car stops. Damages the battety pack?
Ok, the warning came to late, at least there should be enough left to safely pull over or reach the next breakdown bay. On the other hand they let you use the remaining juice as you see fit, which is good
BMW presented the i4 eDrive35, I would love to see you test that car when BMW Norway gets it! As for the Tesla, I'm a Bimmerboy and it makes me sad how great Teslas are when it comes to this EV stuff.
why is there no boost availible for the model 3 lfp? i mean i would easy pay 2000$ to get 0-100 in 5,6sek back.
245 kW discharge power is high - maybe it has been increased via software update 🤔
Is that like using gas and suddenly running out of gas?
@Bjørn Nyland this car doesn't have the BMS calibrated. You need to charge it to 100% and let it sleep about 1 hour and then you have a 2,7kWh buffer instead 7. They introduced this "feature" in 2022.8 update when several LFP's M3 died in the delivery because a uncalibrated battery
Not true. I have this car and have tried all those "calibration" tricks. The recent deliveries have a massive buffer end of. Raises serious questions about the integrity of Teslas wltp advertised range for the car if they expect u to drive so far past 0% to achieve it.
Thanks bjorn. Good video.
I would have like to have seen the figures for "nominal full pack" as I belive this car now has a 2.5kwh hard buffer that the car keeps for itself and cannot be accessed.
@@mchammer1982 I have this car too. I have SMT since first day. In my delivery my car has a 10kWh buffer, but after a 100% charge, it dropped to 2,7kWh.
@@davigar1391 I would have to agree with Mark. I have fully charged over 5-6 times now and have already out 2000km on the car. My buffer is still 7-8kWh. Where did you hear about this feature in the new software. Would be amazing if you are correct 🤞. FYI: September pick up 2022 RWD M3.
@@davigar1391 what was your manufacture date? Earlier 2022 and late 2021 have no issues with the buffer self adjusting but later 2022 models, the buffer remains high. Something has changed.
@@jiz100 I have the same. To unlock your buffer, you have to go below zero. After that, the buffer will go down to 5, than one more time to 2.5. SMT always shows the correct numbers. Available vs Nominal. You can drive until nominal == 0. When the available == 0, the display shows 0%
Could we get Born 77kWh zero test please?
"don't be a zero hero" 😂
how do you get your picture next to the name?
Thanks for the Video Björn.
I would prefer zero to be zero and give me more range above zero. In an ICE car empty is empty as well... Give me the extra kilometers before it shows zero percent and not after.
I most of the ICE cars you can go like 60km below 0 ;) my VW Crafter with AWD went 65km after showing 0km range :)
My Nissan Altima can go about 60 miles after Empty (about 1.5 gallons) and every car I have own goes well beyond Empty.
Powerbank to charge EV usually don't make sense, in my opinion.
But for this test, wher you plan to stop fairly close to a rapid charger it makes perfect sense,
For normal driving it is better to plan to stop at a rapid charger.
If you stay at an off grid cabin for many days, and you use solar to charge the powerbank, it makes more sense.
Some micro EVs have really small batteries, then a powerbank makes more sense too, because it contributes a lot more to state ox charge, as well as their consumption being lower, giving more km/kWh from the bank. It can extend your range enough to comfortably go to a destination where you can't charge otherwise, but use the bank while as destination charging.
I have 4kwh buffer on my M3 LFP (2020)
I also did 30 miles plus on my lfp battery due to no charger available and i am able to reach my home but I turned off heater to save some battery and did only 40 to 50 mph 😂
Hmm. hope tesla fixes the power limit gradual issue. Other than that looks good.
มีเวอร์ชั่นพากย์ไทยไหมครับ อยากได้มากเลย LFP
Question- Isn't that very hard on the batteries to drain them to 0% and more?
You would not want to leave them like that for more than a minute or two, but as you saw, they recharge just fine and can take 160kW at well below nominal zero, so no damage when recharged promptly, seems to be the case. LFP are resilient to structural degradation at high voltage as well so I think they are a more user friendly (fool-proof) battery type.
0% percent on display is not a real 0% percent for cell!
Have you ever tested if the Tesla has more range and is more efficient when using chill mode? Maybe a 1000km chill mode test?
th-cam.com/video/TDkE4Qx1nB0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/x-Cd6uydVF4/w-d-xo.html
Is it true that the range can be doubled by driving at 40kmph?
Yes
@@bjornnyland Thanks , it should be known by new comers who have range anxiety and when it gets under 10%.
Again and Again, Tesla is Bauss, Proud Yankee here.
Hi Bjørn.
Exactely the same happened to me.
Tesla Model 3 LR 2019 110.000km.
I thought my battery needs calibration because i had no power limit indicator....dots.....
So i calibrated. 100%...0%....100%.
Then the test drive.
7km below zero.....shutdown.
Towtruck.
No power limit...no indicator
Bummer.
Did Tesla cancle that feature without telling us?
Are there more people out there who noticed that?
Hang in there dude...
"pepperoni and pineapples"
Why do you want us suffer?
You got trolled.
BMS was badly balanced, probably because it was so new. LFP should be charged to 100% regularly and then the energy buffer would be a solid 2,7kWh.
You mix up balanced and calibrated.
@@bjornnyland you're right. It is badly calibrated
@Teslabjørn: The BMS is not yet calibrated on that car, because otherwise you would have seen 2.7kWh Buffer.
In order to calibrate the LFP-Battery, you should charge it to 100%, let it go for several hours, then drive it down close to 0%. Then let the car sleep for several hours. If you then rectactivate the car, it wurld report over 6% and not 0% anymore and your buffer would melt idealy to 2,7kWh. If you then recharge it to 100%, the buffer would remain at the lower state.
Doesn't work like that on the more recent deliveries. Trust me I've tried everything
16:36 it was trying to turn you around
thank you for that video
Compare with an ICE car where it dies without warning...
Tesla for the win!
Test the Model Y SR with LFP battery pack
Why?
@@bjornnyland because your tests are awesome and this vehicle with that battery setup will be great for many people - at least i know now i can drive my MYP at least 20km below 0% and a RWD almost 40km which is an essential information!
@@steinmar2 But it's not available at the moment...
I would not feel safe charging more than 5 minutes, away from a gas station in USA.
Pepperoni with pineapple??? Not sure about that. 😬
And yesterday my P85D shut down with 3% remaining.... :|
Title matches video
Lol "zero hero"
Yeah, I don't use scan my Tesla...
BASUSS Bjorn is.
The car drove 50km on 0%. Why need powerlimit ? When the car hits 0% you are already looking for a charger. 🙂
100
The Tesla Model 3 LFP is the BEST Car ever Tesla have made....
Why is that?
LFP stronk! Does this RWD also suffer from the weird sounds from the driveunit, like this user? th-cam.com/video/-uOrBVo9WtE/w-d-xo.html
In my opinion car was too new and BMS was not calibrated.
second
Fifth
forth
first
third
Chinese EVs from BYD and Xpeng are better than tesla in 2024... and cheaper :)
Are you having work done?
What do you mean?
@@bjornnyland on your home , I just thought it looks like constructions
Tesla is awesome.
But the navigation software is a nightmare.
Nope. The navigation was good. You can't make a U turn in the middle of the road.
@@balazsberczi6611 I'm talking about my experience.
My M3P already has 148.365km, I know what I'm talking about.
Tesla's GPS navigation software is a nightmare.