In the 80's I asked my O.T. seminary professor, "where is the afterlife in the Old testament?" No answer came. NT Wright has helped me create a refreshingly biblical theology of redemptive history where God's good creation is the redemptive focus, not Plato's rapture out of it. This solves a host of problems for me, from discontinuity between Hebrew and Greek worldviews, to stewardship of earth, to accusations of escapism, to individuality vs community prayer, etc. etc. etc.
As a young man and young Christian I asked the same question of my pastor He also had a puzzled look on his face I said “the OT is about the earthly struggle of Israel”
In 2 Samuel chapter 12, referring to his child who died, David says “I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” I’ve always taken this to mean David believed in an afterlife.
I agree with others. That first video was so clear and easy for non-churched people to understand. Thankyou. I’m looking forward to the whole series and keen to share them.
Hi Tom, Forever grateful for your gift of teaching. Learning as a young Christian that God's final plan for the Creation was to burn/destroy it left me scratching my head when I read the bible cover to cover. You kindom/Creation theology is a cool drink of water! Not everyone is authentic and personable in person but you really were at Texas!
Thanks again for these. I remember reading your thoughts about this over 20 years ago. And was at first taken aback because I had the traditional view. Slowly it started to make sense. It gave so much of the Bible a greater meaning. Then I read Richard Middleton and discovered the link between the two of you. This is so valuable and more robust. And makes so much more sense of our world and who we are as persons. Thank you.
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Back in the 90's there was a saying "Don't be so heaven-minded that you're no good here on earth". And that saying was eviscerated by the mainstream Pastors only because they too were myopic.....that saying was right on in its scope. I look forward to this series. Thank you.
To some degree, there is semantics in this. The Christians who have already died are not here. We can call it a holding place, or paradise, a blissful garden, or heaven. But that's where they are. Now when this dispensation is over, the question is, what happens next? There seems to be a new heaven and a new earth and all the people in heaven, the heavenly Jerusalem, appear to come down at a certain point to the new earth. At that juncture, the camera cuts away and the story (for now) ends. In other words, we have enough information in that. But right now, when a Christian dies, they go to "heaven". So the traditional simplistic view may be incomplete, but it is certainly Biblical and true.
Thank you! I am very grateful for your elucidation of the "two-stage" process, and the ultimate renewal of all of God's valued creation, in this video and in your other writings. Very few Christian teachers have explained these as clearly and logically as you do.
Thank you for your gracious words and the depth of your thoughts. We would love to see more Christian teachers embrace such hope. To help, we offer world-class online education for those who want to learn more: www.admirato.org/ Consider joining and studying in a growing worldwide online community.
Hi Professor Wright and friends; professor you touched on Elijah going to “heaven”. Where did Jesus go after his resurrection? Is Jesus currently waiting in this “restful garden” while also working through the Holy Spirit to us on earth? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers.
This is very interesting. As an SDA we discuss this from a biblical perspective which Wright seems to qualify. Your body returns to dust since you will get a new, incorruptible one. Your soul, ( psyche, personality, character) is in a sleep mode as the New Testament describes it, non functioning, waiting to be placed with the new body when Christ returns to earth with His reward. I’ll continue to watch Wrights views on biblical subjects he seems to have a sound grasp of biblical thought.
Ps116:15 "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints". I lost my beautiful wife after 51 years of marriage. I found this verse a great comfort knowing she was safe until the resurrection. He who watches neither slumbers or sleeps. .
I must say that I have always been a bit disappointed with the afterlife ideas I was taught. I was so scared of going to hell that I became a Christian. But I was not encouraged by the picture of heaven that was painted. These teachings of people like NT Wright and Tim Mackie among others are far more exciting and something I want to be a part of. However I do not know any church in my city that teaches this😢
I think this is a serious oversight on Dr. Wright's part, to minimise individual salvation as he does here is not in keeping with the Apostles. 2 Cor 5:1-10 appears to be a major outlier to Tom's summary of New Testament teaching, since Paul doesn't present an antithesis in desiring to put off the mortal body & yet striving to please the Lord while in it. The fact that the ultimate hope is indeed the New Heavens and New Earth does not exclude the hope of dying to be with Christ (allbeit in the intermediate state), since the latter is anticipatory of the former. I desire to be with Christ in heaven precisely because the only thing to come afterwards is the final state of glory.
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It certainly ties into “they kingdom come” instead of the focus of life after death. The hope of a future in midst of all the horrible and worrying news.
After truly knowing that God exists and coming to belief in Jesus as eternal. I know that as long as I’m connected within life and after to the source of all good existence, I’m content. Whether consciousness persists or unaware, I will still be with Jesus after His return.
There is a temporary “Heaven”… sort of an intermediate place of waiting for believers until the new Heaven & New Earth are made our new everlasting home with Christ.
@@loriedwards1201 The state of the dead, according to the word of God. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die* {Genesis 2:17} Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? ... So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep* O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, 👉till my change come. ... His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them. {Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21} And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God. {Job 19:26} Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest. {The Preacher 9:10} Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish* {Psalm 146:3-4} Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." {John 11:12-14} ... Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection 👉at the last day. Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:" {John 11:24-25} But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days* {Daniel 12:13} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life. {John 3:16} And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die* {Genesis 3:4} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire* {Ezekiel 28:14} ^ (satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.) The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? *He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil* {Isaiah 33:14-15} If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Praise be to God and Lord Jesus Christ and Thank you so much for such clarity! Good job on the quality presentation of the truth! Definitely subbed. God bless you. ✔
Problem for mission is, people seem to have lost interest in life after death: 'Is it compulsory?' So much satisfaction in this life, only hope afterwards is meeting up with lost ones before heading into oblivion. Is oblivion so bad?
After this comes the judgment There's no condemnation in Christ In the twinkling of an eye we will be transformed There is no time or tears after death in God's plan for us his children
To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD. Heaven and earth will pass away with a great noise. And all the elements will melt with a fervent heat.
I agree with SibleySteve. The idea that popped out in the video was “salvation for creation not from creation“. I reason if God is doing salvation for creation today I, like St Paul, can be more useful alive to that work of God’s and consider being useless in it after death.
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Dear Prof. Wright, thank you very much for everything you do! To the idea of going to heaven: Doesn't Jesus' ascension to heaven warrant the belief that we will join him there one day? Thank you and God bless!
Thank you for your kind words - we appreciate the encouragement! Regarding your question, Revelation 21 is helpful for understanding this further. There we see the joining of heaven and earth together beautifully depicted, and God's presence descending to dwell with us. N.T. Wright Online has also shared this video which can be helpful for further exploration: th-cam.com/video/72NvP1b82yg/w-d-xo.html. We appreciate your great question and hope to hear from you soon! ~Charleen at N.T. Wright Online
Hello Tom - I know that this question is out of place here, but I figured it may be my best chance to 'speak' with you. Through the years, you have often mentioned creating and surrounding yourself with beauty. I like it! My wife and I try to incorporate this into our life together. I have always wondered though if you got this notion from scripture? I can't say that I have really gleaned this from scripture. While on earth, Jesus, his ministry, his model of living for the kingdom, to name a few, did not reflect this notion. I can surmise though (perhaps), that the beauty in life came from doing, talking and having the heart of Jesus regarding our fellow humans. This is not a challenge, I am just looking for clarification.....as a fellow follower of Jesus. I do thank you! (Kettle Falls, WA, USA)
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Philippians 3:15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Speaking for myself only, I do not want to "come back" whether coming back means reincarnation, rescue of this world, etc., etc. I just want out of here forever.
After listening to this, could it be that what Jesus meant when He said “you must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven” is that our bodies must be resurrected when God’s Kingdom comes to Earth and makes things new and not something that we experience in this flesh body when we “accept Jesus as our personal savior?”
We appreciate your reflections, thank you for sharing your thoughts! While we await our future resurrection and the consummation of all God's New Creation promises, Jesus says, "God's kingdom isn't the sort of thing you can watch for and see coming. People won't say, 'Look, here it is,' or 'Look, over there!' No: God's kingdom is in your grasp." (Luke 17:20-21) Also, Luke 11:20 shows that the kingdom is already present in Jesus's ministry. We live in a "now and not yet" tension where we have God's kingdom in our midst as we wait for the Day when we will have its fullness. (Rev. 21:1-5) --NTW Online Team
If I am understanding correctly, the kingdom of God is experienced in the "now" as a spiritual event since it is something that cannot be watched or seen, and the "not yet" is a physical future event when God's kingdom comes down to meet Earth? Or are they both spiritual events? Thank you for taking the time to help me understand. 🙂@@NTWrightOnline
As Jesus was raised from bodily death, so also those in Christ will be raised from bodily death. Our bodily resurrection in the kingdom of God is part of the "not yet" part of the kingdom reality we have now. For further insights, I hope you will continue through the whole series! bit.ly/3Lkqz0j Regards, NTW Online Team
Your consciousness is very much electromagnetic energy. It doesn’t just cease to exist when you die, it has to go somewhere. Your body is, in many ways, an expression of that consciousness. So the idea of life after death is very much a possibility even from a modern scientific perspective.
"They which live and believe in Me SHALL NEVER DIE" - Jesus Christ. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him SHALL NOT PERISH but have EVERLASTING LIFE" - Jesus Christ. I choose what CHRIST said - NO ONE ELSE...including preachers!
God please continue to give me strength. As Christians it’s important to trust God no matter what we are going through. God is our only strength in this world. Like many other single parents things are tough on me. Both of my sons are autistic. I’m constantly struggling to provide for them and now that I’m home schooling them my hours to work are limited. I’m overwhelmed. Father God hear my prayers. My faith in you is strong! Even as I constantly struggle to pay my rent. And I constantly struggle to provide groceries for my children. I get mocked by others because I cry out to you Lord! But I trust you. I’m keeping faith. Walking with faith is the most important thing us christian’s must do. That’s why love compassion and prayers are all we truly need. Please keep me and my boys in your prayers.
I understand why Dr. Wright has issues with 'going to heaven' - it suggests the abandonment of the earth and the neglect of the resurrection of the body. But if we will be with Jesus and his Father, we will certainly go to places we have never been before and even beyond creation (i.e. heaven.) And here is where I really disagree. How is going to be with Christ, surrounded in the love of God and suffering from sin and death no more before the resurrection of the body, NOT a rescue from death?
We were rescued from death when we passed from death unto life, upon believing the gospel of Jesus. Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live; And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believeth thou this?” Death is more than the absence of physical life. Those who have never believed the gospel are dead as far as God is concerned. To be in Jesus is to be free from death. To be with Jesus is to have life eternal. The believer will never be separated from Jesus.
@@CanadianGospelMission The state of the dead, according to the word of God. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die* {Genesis 2:17} Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? ... So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep* O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, 👉till my change come. ... His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them. {Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21} And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God. {Job 19:26} Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest. {The Preacher 9:10} Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish* {Psalm 146:3-4} Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." {John 11:12-14} ... Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection 👉at the last day. Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:" {John 11:24-25} But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days* {Daniel 12:13} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life. {John 3:16} And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die* {Genesis 3:4} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire* {Ezekiel 28:14} ^ (satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.) The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? *He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil* {Isaiah 33:14-15} If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Is what you mentioned about the temporary place a hades? There are quite a number of verses in NT talks about hades, would you please explain what a hades is? Is hades a location where all the souls live in waiting for the finial judgment? Thanks.
These are great questions. Prof. Wright is semi-retired and does not personally monitor this channel. He does speak about this topic in various places including articles like this one: ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/jesus-resurrection-and-christian-origins/ and in his online course "The Resurrection of the Son of God" www.ntwrightonline.org/portfolio-items/resurrection/?portfolioCats=50%2C52%2C49%2C51 I hope this helps you as you continue to seek for answers. --NTW Online Team
Thanks brother Wright. Your dead ones will live. Isaiah 26:19 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 1 Corinthians 15:26 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all Ecclesiastes 9:5 Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine-they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop in birth. Isaiah 26:19 "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out" John 5:28,29 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” She said to him: “Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ the Son of God, the One coming into the world. John 11:25-27 But when this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.” “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law. But thanks to God, for he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! 1 Corinthians 15:54-57 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” Revelation 21:4, 5
Thank you for sharing this beautiful hope from scripture! How encouraging it is to hold such promises. Thank you for these reminders of our secure hope in the Lord! --NTW Online Team
Is that the reason why, in the past, the church presented itself as a way to a salvation? Is that why the Gospel talks more about what we need to do instead of God did and is going to do?
I have a little knowledge in the Bible, but what I understand on the conversation of Jesus and the other criminal on the cross when Jesus has said "TODAY you will be with ME in Paradise" - today for me is NOW while Wright interprets it WAITING, Jesus promised the criminal that right at that day, he will be with Jesus in Paradise where Jesus dwell (dwell). Another thing is how can someone understand the Bible if some of the literal words or text is not what is meant to be.
What's helpful is reading it and understanding the historical, theological and cultural context it's written in. Start Genesis 1 vs 1 and a literal reading in todays context and culture has you thinking of the universe and the earth as seen from space... (created heaven's and the earth) except this is written over 3000 years ago... so no concept of that in the writers mind.
In Matthew 12:40, Jesus gives us a clue where he was when He died. He was in the grave for 3 days. He couldn't have possibly been in paradise at the same time
"Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house (in heaven) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; *that where I am* there (in heaven) you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know." Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: *no man* comes unto the Father (who art in heaven), *but* by me." {John 14:1-6}
Well, he's wrong about paradise, Jesus himself said that's where his Father was, also, the original Hebrew and Greek have no punctuation. The original scholars in translating the Bible were the ones who had to figure out where to use commas, periods, and what have you. The comma in the verse " I say unto you, today you will be with me in paradise. " is in the wrong spot, we know this because at Jesus's resurrection, Mary went to touch him and Jesus said " Do not cling to me for I have not yet ascended to my father in heaven. " The comma in this particular verse should read as follows " I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise. " This changes the context of the verse. Previously in how it is written the thief went to heaven with Jesus that day upon their death. 1.) There are two things wrong with this belief, I covered the first one in the first paragraph, Jesus told Mary he hadn't been to heaven yet. 2.) Roman crucifixion was a slow and painful death usually resulting in death between 2-4 days from asphyxiation, Jesus died on the same day he was crucified, both thieves were nailed with him since they were probably both barely clinging to life on Sunday morning and Jesus told Mary he hadn't been to heaven yet, you can only draw on conclusion. That is death is death, a timeless, dreamless state in which Paul and many of the other disciples called " Sleep ". 3.) This would make sense since the Jews believed that sheol was the grave where someone went after they died. Jewish people didn't believe in life after death, this was a Greek concept along with the belief that we have a soul and it goes to the place of the dead " Hades " which was later used by Roman Catholicism as an interpretation of hell. The " Immortal Soul " and " Eternal Hell " doctrines both derive from Greek and Roman Mythology and aren't taught in the original New Testament scriptures. People would know this if they studied their English Bible with a " Strongs Concordance " to get the true interpretation of the Bible, and if they studied the history of Christianity, Rome, and the Reformation.
The way to get as many people into heaven as you can is to get heaven into as many people as you can-that is, to follow the path of genuine spiritual transformation or full-throttle discipleship to Jesus Christ. When we are counting up results we also need to keep in mind the multitudes of people (surrounded by churches) who will not be in heaven because they have never, to their knowledge, seen the reality of Christ in a living human being. Dallas Willard Renovation of the Heart: Putting On the Character of Christ.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord…..where is The Lord Jesus……He is seated at the right hand of God. As that is in Heaven therefore when I die I will be where The Lord Jesus.
*I beheld the earth* and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was *no man* and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and *all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD* and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; *yet will I not make a full end* For this shall *the earth mourn* and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. {Jeremiah 4:23-28} ^ For a thousand years. But the rest of *the dead* lived not again *until the thousand years were finished* This is the first resurrection. {Revelation 20:5} ^ The verse does not read the rest of *the living and* the dead, for there will be no man living on this earth ofter the wrath of God is poured out upon the ungodly, at Christ Jesus second coming, with all of his holy angels, at the first resurrection, at the last day, and satan will be bound in chains of circumstance for a thousand years with no man left on earth to corrupt with his temptations and lawlessness.
Thomas, Paul knew that he would be asleep as all others when he would die. He wrote what expected him personally. (Lk 16 is a parody against the Pharisaic superstition.)
This God sounds like a child in a playground: first he creates the world and then he destroys it when he realises that it is imperfect and it needs salvation. I can imagine that cycle repeating itself ad infinitum. God save us!
I agree with N.T. that the story of the Bible is the salvation of the world. But I don't see any contradiction to say as Paul seems to in Philippians 1:23 that upon death we go to be with Christ. That is not our final destination; we wait as he waits for the revelation of the sons of God and the liberation of this creation from its bonds of decay (Romans 8:20-25). But the in between is glory as much as the resurrection and the new heavens and new earth. What is better than to be with Christ? What N.T. is emphasizing is the new heavens and new earth, and that is something I can hardily agree with. It too will be being with Christ.
@doncamp1150 We appreciate your honesty and encourage you to explore this topic further. N.T. Wright offers a course and study group for in-depth discussions. If interested, here's the link: www.admirato.org/courses/Surprised-by-the-God-of-Hope
I can't tell if he's saying we'll go to heaven or not. If we are, I expect to be perfectly happy there, regardless of what God intends to do in some possibly far off millennium. At any rate, watch Don Preston's Why Wright Is Wrong.
Unfortunately this is such a common caricature it keeps many people from Jesus. So many times I’ve heard “I’m saved” and if you don’t believe you’re going to hell. Which most responses are geez thanks for the good news 😂
These [The Patriarchs] all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed THAT THEY WERE STRANGERS AND PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, THAT IS AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: *for he hath prepared for them a city* {Romans 11:13-16} Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for GREAT IS YOUR REWARD IN HEAVEN: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. {Matthew 5:12} For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, *we have a building of God* an house not made with hands, eternal *in the heavens* {2 Corinthians 5:1}
No. He said we don't go to Plato's heaven which is very different than the biblical one. Plato imagined heaven as the real, perfect world of which this one is but a distorted shadow.
That is not what he said at all. He said, correctly, that what happens immediately after we die is not the focus of the New Testament. And that tying together salvation with heaven is a complete misrepresentation of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. Which again, is accurate. Salvation in the Bible is always spoken about God making things right for this world, his good creation.
The state of the dead, according to the word of God. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die* {Genesis 2:17} Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? ... So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep* O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, 👉till my change come. ... His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them. {Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21} And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God. {Job 19:26} Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest. {The Preacher 9:10} Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish* {Psalm 146:3-4} Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." {John 11:12-14} ... Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection 👉at the last day. Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:" {John 11:24-25} But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days* {Daniel 12:13} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life. {John 3:16} And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die* {Genesis 3:4} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire* {Ezekiel 28:14} ^ (satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.) The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? *He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil* {Isaiah 33:14-15} If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Ok. Good video. But the question remains. What happens when we die? Are we just sleeping waiting for new creation? Is heaven like grand central station where we are waiting for new creation? I get it. There is no firm answer in the Bible. But surely a people living in the levant amongst other nations having stories about what happens with the soul would inspire the Israelites asking the same question, no?
Thank you for your insightful question. In addressing the question of what happens when we die, N.T. Wright suggests in his course, “Suprised by the God of Hope” (available on www.Admirato.org) that when Paul speaks of people "sleeping" in Jesus or having "fallen asleep," he is using a metaphor for death rather than implying unconsciousness. The idea is that this metaphorical “sleep” signifies a transition from the present world's form of life to a different state. Paul's statement about it being "far better" to be with Jesus implies a conscious experience rather than an unconscious one. This suggests an intermediate state after death, where individuals are not physically alive but are in some sense "with Jesus" as they await the final resurrection. The metaphorical sleep, therefore, doesn't entail a lack of awareness but rather signifies a different mode of existence. If you'd like to explore this topic further, our team at N.T. Wright Online invites you to our discussion forum where we engage theological topics such as this. You are very welcome to join! www.admirato.org/products/communities/discussion
I guess the question is does a psyche or persona need to be embodied to be manifest, does life need a body to be manifest, is a body any use without life. My life is safe with the Lord, but the body and life have to be together to be a functioning unit. My identity is safe in Christ awaiting re manifestation. I certainly expect to be asleep in the everlasting arms till I am awoken. However who am I to have an idea, but I do think life is a really big deal and one is either alive or dead. The chip has to be in the device for there to be functioning entity.
but but but... to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where the Lord (Jesus) is so shall we be also. Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you..etc" Thats a PLACE and it isn't here. Thats what we call heaven. And what about the people who don't go to heaven. Where do they go? Gods Judgement hasn't happened yet, so they haven't been judged for hell either.
These are excellent thoughts! We discuss these things in more depth on our website, Admirato.org. We offer many courses that explain in more detail what a short TH-cam video clip cannot. I hope you will join our many discussions and bring your thoughts into them! We appreciate a diversity of views in a gracious community. www.admirato.org/
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give *every man* according as his work shall be.” {Revelation 22:11-12} ^ When Jesus Christ comes again he will execute the judgment that have been determined in heaven. To the end [objective] he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness *before* God, even our Father, [who art in heaven] at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ *with all his saints* {1 Thessalonians 3:13} Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:” {John 11:25} But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's *at his coming* {1 Corinthians 15:23}
@@larrybedouin2921 I'm not quite sure why you are quoting bible passages to me without context. In my comment I was referring to the soul sleep theory and the judgement. Here is my take on it, you die, you get judged, you are either with Jesus/God in heaven or not. It's that simple. The soul sleep theory has no basis. Specifically, Heb 9:27 is directly talking about this topic. You die, you get judged. Pretty back and white.
@@daveconner9520 The state of the dead, according to the word of God. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die* {Genesis 2:17} Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? ... So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep* O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, *till my change come* ... His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them. {Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21} And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God. {Job 19:26} Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest. {The Preacher 9:10} Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish* {Psalm 146:3-4} Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." {John 11:12-14} ... Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection *at the last day* Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:" {John 11:24-25} But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days* {Daniel 12:13} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life. {John 3:16} And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die* {Genesis 3:4} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire* {Ezekiel 28:14} ^ (satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.) The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? *He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil* {Isaiah 33:14-15} If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Here's an interesting question. What happens when you ask a question if nobody knows the answer ? Easy, you convert millions of people to Christianity !
"This may come as a shock, but going to be with Jesus the Messiah after you die isn’t the end of the story." the sh0ck is that s0me0ne has the arr0gance t0 actuaIIy beIieve they kn0w what happens after death
Well I like this but you’re ignoring the “sleep verses” the in the grave where you are going you have no thoughts… death is equated to sleep and rest .. Daniel 12 as for you the Angel says go to rest until the end of days where you will rise and receive your inheritance- aka glorified body … Otherwise great great stuff
The problem with his theology is that he does not seem to understand that we are already in the new heavens and the new earth. New Testament scholars always forget to link the book of Revelation to the Old Testament language. I have heard of NT Wright and I am sure that the is a true scholar, but you can spend a lifetime reading and studying scripture and if you start from the wrong assumption you will end in the wrong place (ie back on earth) The second issue I have is... where is the proof text for your assumptions sir? It will seem to me that he is using his reputation as a scholar to put authority to his words instead of using the bible as the authority.
No one is saying salvation is about leaving this world and going off to some other place. What a straw man argument. Salvation is about “escaping the wrath to come.” Whose wrath? The Lords wrath. Tom’s picture of earth slowly being overtaken by heaven completely leaves out the coming judgement talked about throughout the New Testament. Don’t fall for this line of teaching.
*The Queen Of Sheba* The life of the human aeon. The Ante-Deluvian aeon for the first generation was up to a thousand years for each person Methuselah being an exception. I have to believe this is true though to a modern mind it is laughable, but we need to understand the perception and beliefs of these ancient people because it is an important concept which sets boundaries. In relation to this longevity Jesus states Matthew 24:22 _And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened_ Jesus therefore clearly means that resurrection included reincarnation, but there is a distinct difference between *The Resurrection* and _resurrection_ The former being an end to the Aeon and the latter just the souls coming and going to gain nourishment for its being. _John 10:9 I am the door; if anyone enters by me he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture_ *The importance of Luke 20:34-36* _34 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; 35 but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection_ Based upon the Bible truth that judgement does not occur until the soul has completed multiple resurrections (reincarnations) and can no longer attain rebirth in the physical world, that passage, relies on Jesus understanding of what he revealed about the unbelieving Jews in relation to the Queen of Sheba’s Resurrection. *Note capital R* _Matthew 12:41 The queen of the South will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here_ Jesus teaches here the boundaries of aeons as a thousand years from one Resurrection to another, so those Jews who railed against him would be able to live out their lives until such time as they could no longer be reborn and then be judged, and at that judgement the Queen of the South would Arise and condemn them, this is the same meaning as Resurrection. Her life was recorded as being 9th century B.C. a thousand years accurarately places her Resurrection in the 1st century A.D. Therefore Jesus had a meticulous understanding of resurrections reincarnation, and Resurrection, as he states “I AM the Resurrection and the Life” And guess what, the Queen of the South wasn’t even a Catholic. I too have reached the stage where I have already been judged, and my future in Paradise will be among those people whose earthly lives ended in the last thousand years I will be particularly friendly to King Peter I of Portugal and his wife Inez de Castro who died in the 12th century, I am destined to watch them as they resurrect from dust in their sarcophagus, He will arise first and he will go to his wife’s regenerated body and help her from her sarcophagus, then both of them will walk over to a beam of light and ascend into the world of the 3rd day. This is not Catholic teaching this is Biblical teaching Catholic teaching has been unable to comprehend what has been written because it understands through a very narrow prism. _Doctors of arts, medicine, law and philosophy can be made by the pope, the emperor and the universities; but be quite sure that no-one can make a doctor of Holy Scripture save only the Holy Ghost from heaven, as Christ says in John vi ‘They must all be taught by God himself’. Now the Holy Ghost does not ask after red or brown robes, or what is showy, whether a man is young or old , clerical or lay, monastic or secular, virgin or married. Indeed , he once spake by an ass against the prophet that rode on it, would that we were worthy that such doctors be given us…” (Luther, An d. chr. Adel deutch. Nation v. d.v.d. chr. Standes Besserung. 1520, W.A. ,. 6. pg 460, 1, 28 from Church Dogmatics by Karl Barth vol 1.1 pg 19_
1 Corinthians 15:17-23 KJVS And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. [18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. [19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. [20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. [21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Timothy 4:9-11 KJVS This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. [10] For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [11] These things command and teach. But do they?
"How do I get to heaven? And somebody says, well, you've got to believe this." Yes, his name was Jesus. "You've got to belong to this or that church."--Mixing this up with believing in Jesus as your Savior, according to his words? Isn't that a Strawman Fallacy, or sth like that? "The Bible isn't about that story"...of individuals getting saved by trusting God for a free gift? When I read it, that's one of the main stories I read. You don't have to be a theologian to understand the Bible, do you?
1:57 _The Bible is not very clear on where we are between death and resurrection_ Nonsense, Jesus teaches the Dying thief that he will be in Paradise _This Day_ with Jesus. Jesus teaches that the Queen of the South is to Arise contiguously with the judgment of those jews who heckled Jesus. Understand this as the Queen was leaving Paradise by Resurrection and Ascension the hecklers were being judged, this means that they were about to enter Paradise as celestial children. Nobody can enter Paradise without being judged and according to Luke 20:34-37 people may have opportunities for rebirth so they are saved _from Judgment_ because they only reincarnate. But to become a celestial child _you must be saved by Judgment_ *Jesus Christ does not Judge* John 8:15 _You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one._ John 8:50 _Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it and he will be the judge._ John 12:47 _If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world._ John 5:221-23 _21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 _*_The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honour the Son,_*_ even as they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him._
There is an issue that Mr Wright does not take into account and it is the dimensions set by God for certain creatures to inhabit such as the earth and the heavens, it is stated that there are three heavens, one is the heaven that the Hebrews call the recluse of the waters. and what we scientifically call the atmosphere where the clouds reside and where precipitation occurs such as rain, snow, and other factors such as the oxygen we breathe. When sunset comes we appreciate another heaven that is the cosmos where the sun, the moon, the stars and the planets live. And then we have in another dimension like a third heaven where God the Father and his Son who are one sit on the throne, and there are also angelic beings. The fact is Mr Wright that in the book of the revelation of John there are a multitude of saved people who await the regeneration of the world and are in that temporary paradise or third heaven until there are new heavens and a new earth. The ancestral day and night celestial observation, both Hebrew and other nations, is identified in two heavens, the atmosphere and the cosmos. The third heaven requires a vision that is not ocular but prophetic because it is inaccessible to the retina of our eyes.
Funny how angry these people make me with their preposterous ideas and bombastic language. For people that preach love above all, they have a lot of blood on their hands.
We would love to hear your feedback on the resources where these matters are discussed in depth. On our new website, Admirato.org, we offer free resources, including an eBook covering this topic. If interested, join our free "Read" membership and find the eBook called, "Resurrection and Renewal of Creation". www.admirato.org/courses/take/ebook-resource-library/pdfs/44052404-resurrection-and-the-renewal-of-creation. We also have a "Free Study Hall" where you can discuss what you are learning in our new online community. It is a great place to discuss Professor Wright's theology in depth with other learners.
What he's saying is that the separation between heaven and earth is going to be healed and so our future life will be lived in the restored earth. Those who die now go to be with the lord until he returns bringing them with him. That's nothing like the doctrine of purgatory where we would go to be purged (hence the name) of our unconfessed sin.
@@michaelkistner6286 When we die and go to be with the lord....will we be 'alive ' in him . For example ..I die and am waiting to be cremated..am I simultaneously.. alive 'with Christ' fully conscious ?
We believe the answer is a resounding "yes"! We can take comfort in knowing we remain alive "with Christ" fully conscious. We have started an online discussion community on our website, Admirato.org, where we love to go further in discussions like this. Please consider joining for free here: www.admirato.org/bundles/read
I'd like to know how it's possible that God can intervene in this world and still be an objective judge. I'd also like to know what the soul is made of since we understand particle physics to the point where we know how mass is created in the universe. If the soul is made of matter, we would know it. If energy, it will disperse from its source at light speed in every direction until it's absorbed by and indistinguishable from the background radiation of the universe. I would also like to know what a MORAL FACT is? In a morally relativistic universe, it's possible that my moral opinion could be better than God's. That reduces goodness to might makes right, which is not good. Therefore, God is not good; he's just strong. You people just don't think.
Many think that Christian morals and principals are good for society. which is a good litmus test for their understanding of Christ's teaching. be a good person... and then what?
Great question! N.T. Wright dedicates a whole book to this very topic called, "After You Believe." He argues that Christian character is part of what it means to be God's New Creation people, reflecting his image and fulfilling the purpose for which we were created. Morals are not the end goal but are essential for fulfilling our call in creation, bearing God's image and governing wisely. Here is a short video you may like: th-cam.com/video/tcgiKMBWXrk/w-d-xo.html. We also offer a free course that further explores aspects of this topic: www.admirato.org/courses/faith-working-through-love As you continue to explore, please let us know what you think! --NTW Online Team
In the 80's I asked my O.T. seminary professor, "where is the afterlife in the Old testament?" No answer came. NT Wright has helped me create a refreshingly biblical theology of redemptive history where God's good creation is the redemptive focus, not Plato's rapture out of it. This solves a host of problems for me, from discontinuity between Hebrew and Greek worldviews, to stewardship of earth, to accusations of escapism, to individuality vs community prayer, etc. etc. etc.
As a young man and young Christian I asked the same question of my pastor
He also had a puzzled look on his face
I said “the OT is about the earthly struggle of Israel”
In 2 Samuel chapter 12, referring to his child who died, David says “I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” I’ve always taken this to mean David believed in an afterlife.
Afterlife is referenced in Daniel chapter 12, ressurection of the just and unjust.
@@chrisk.6246what if David was referring to Sheol (the grave)?
@@ben.duffour Indeed he meant Sheol. In Acts 2 v 34 Peter preached that 'David did not ascend into heaven'.
He just explained what is likely the most difficult thing to understand.
This guy has the most soothing voice ever
I agree with others. That first video was so clear and easy for non-churched people to understand. Thankyou. I’m looking forward to the whole series and keen to share them.
These brief topical teaching sessions are of immense value and greatly appreciated. ✔️
Hi Tom,
Forever grateful for your gift of teaching. Learning as a young Christian that God's final plan for the Creation was to burn/destroy it left me scratching my head when I read the bible cover to cover. You kindom/Creation theology is a cool drink of water! Not everyone is authentic and personable in person but you really were at Texas!
I’m so excited about this series! Thank you Professor for your work and all that you do for the kingdom. You are a gift
God's blessing to us 🙂
Thanks again for these. I remember reading your thoughts about this over 20 years ago. And was at first taken aback because I had the traditional view. Slowly it started to make sense. It gave so much of the Bible a greater meaning. Then I read Richard Middleton and discovered the link between the two of you. This is so valuable and more robust. And makes so much more sense of our world and who we are as persons. Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience. We are grateful for fellow-learners like you who have the courage to listen and the willingness to grow. We would love your thoughts and input on our more in-depth online discussion community at Admirato, the new home of N.T. Wright Online. Consider joining us! www.admirato.org/bundles/read
Thank you so much brother Wright for sharing with so many of us. To guard our faith in the hope of the gospel.
Back in the 90's there was a saying "Don't be so heaven-minded that you're no good here on earth". And that saying was eviscerated by the mainstream Pastors only because they too were myopic.....that saying was right on in its scope. I look forward to this series.
Thank you.
Searching the scriptures I do find you are right Mr. Wright! ❤️ Thank you for your teaching.
First video was awesome, super excited for this next one!
To some degree, there is semantics in this. The Christians who have already died are not here. We can call it a holding place, or paradise, a blissful garden, or heaven. But that's where they are. Now when this dispensation is over, the question is, what happens next? There seems to be a new heaven and a new earth and all the people in heaven, the heavenly Jerusalem, appear to come down at a certain point to the new earth. At that juncture, the camera cuts away and the story (for now) ends. In other words, we have enough information in that. But right now, when a Christian dies, they go to "heaven". So the traditional simplistic view may be incomplete, but it is certainly Biblical and true.
Thank you! I am very grateful for your elucidation of the "two-stage" process, and the ultimate renewal of all of God's valued creation, in this video and in your other writings. Very few Christian teachers have explained these as clearly and logically as you do.
Thank you for your gracious words and the depth of your thoughts. We would love to see more Christian teachers embrace such hope. To help, we offer world-class online education for those who want to learn more: www.admirato.org/ Consider joining and studying in a growing worldwide online community.
I have had many mixed questions over the years. N.T. Wright has answered many in just two videos.
Hi Professor Wright and friends; professor you touched on Elijah going to “heaven”. Where did Jesus go after his resurrection? Is Jesus currently waiting in this “restful garden” while also working through the Holy Spirit to us on earth? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers.
This is very interesting. As an SDA we discuss this from a biblical perspective which Wright seems to qualify. Your body returns to dust since you will get a new, incorruptible one. Your soul, ( psyche, personality, character) is in a sleep mode as the New Testament describes it, non functioning, waiting to be placed with the new body when Christ returns to earth with His reward. I’ll continue to watch Wrights views on biblical subjects he seems to have a sound grasp of biblical thought.
Ps116:15 "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints". I lost my beautiful wife after 51 years of marriage. I found this verse a great comfort knowing she was safe until the resurrection.
He who watches neither slumbers or sleeps.
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Thank you for this series.
I must say that I have always been a bit disappointed with the afterlife ideas I was taught. I was so scared of going to hell that I became a Christian. But I was not encouraged by the picture of heaven that was painted.
These teachings of people like NT Wright and Tim Mackie among others are far more exciting and something I want to be a part of. However I do not know any church in my city that teaches this😢
We are grateful you are already part of this living hope which you carry with you wherever you go!
Also read the book “Heaven” by Randy Alcorn. The next life is going to be Amazing!!
I think this is a serious oversight on Dr. Wright's part, to minimise individual salvation as he does here is not in keeping with the Apostles.
2 Cor 5:1-10 appears to be a major outlier to Tom's summary of New Testament teaching, since Paul doesn't present an antithesis in desiring to put off the mortal body & yet striving to please the Lord while in it.
The fact that the ultimate hope is indeed the New Heavens and New Earth does not exclude the hope of dying to be with Christ (allbeit in the intermediate state), since the latter is anticipatory of the former. I desire to be with Christ in heaven precisely because the only thing to come afterwards is the final state of glory.
Thank you for your thoughts. We welcome your input and we hope for discussions such as this on our new learning platform, Admirato.org. We offer free learning resources and the ability to connect with a whole community of online learners who would love to discuss matters such as this in more depth. We hope you will consider joining and adding your thoughts! www.admirato.org/bundles/read
Thank you so much. benefiting immensely from this series. From Africa Zimbabwe. U are reaching nations .
Thank you so much for sharing this with us. We are encouraged that you are here! --NTW Online Team
It certainly ties into “they kingdom come” instead of the focus of life after death. The hope of a future in midst of all the horrible and worrying news.
After truly knowing that God exists and coming to belief in Jesus as eternal. I know that as long as I’m connected within life and after to the source of all good existence, I’m content. Whether consciousness persists or unaware, I will still be with Jesus after His return.
St. Paul said, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.“
Actually he didn’t. He said “to be absent from the body AND to be present with the Lord.” It’s a slight but significant difference.
@@billyrhythm
How?
You might want to read 2 Cor 5 again. I’ve heard plenty of well-meaning ministers claim that’s what Paul says, but it isn’t. Read the whole chapter.
There is a temporary “Heaven”… sort of an intermediate place of waiting for believers until the new Heaven & New Earth are made our new everlasting home with Christ.
@@loriedwards1201
The state of the dead, according to the word of God.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die*
{Genesis 2:17}
Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep*
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
👉till my change come.
...
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
{Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21}
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God.
{Job 19:26}
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest.
{The Preacher 9:10}
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish*
{Psalm 146:3-4}
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
{John 11:12-14}
...
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection
👉at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:"
{John 11:24-25}
But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days*
{Daniel 12:13}
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life.
{John 3:16}
And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die*
{Genesis 3:4}
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire*
{Ezekiel 28:14}
^
(satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.)
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
*He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil*
{Isaiah 33:14-15}
If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Amen. Glory to God. The New Jerusalem coming down to earth from Heaven is our home here on earth.
Thank you so much. Thank God for the beautiful Elizabeth 🙏
Wonderful. Yes, I can jump ahead, but I need to chew on this one first.
Praise be to God and Lord Jesus Christ and Thank you so much for such clarity! Good job on the quality presentation of the truth! Definitely subbed. God bless you. ✔
Thank you for subscribing and for your kind words. We're happy to have you as part of our TH-cam community! ~Charleen at N.T. Wright Online
@@NTWrightOnline
May our God and Lord Jesus Christ bless you abundantly as I look forward to seeing more quality content from you.
Wright is so clear.
Breath of fresh air
Thank you, your support means a lot to us! --NTW Online Team
Problem for mission is, people seem to have lost interest in life after death: 'Is it compulsory?' So much satisfaction in this life, only hope afterwards is meeting up with lost ones before heading into oblivion. Is oblivion so bad?
After this comes the judgment
There's no condemnation in Christ
In the twinkling of an eye we will be transformed
There is no time or tears after death in God's plan for us his children
I've been meaning to check out your teachings. This is my first video. So far... yes, that's what we have been saying. ☦️ 😊
To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD. Heaven and earth will pass away with a great noise. And all the elements will melt with a fervent heat.
salvation is knowing the kingdom of God has come.
Wow, speechless, thank you 😊
I agree with SibleySteve. The idea that popped out in the video was “salvation for creation not from creation“. I reason if God is doing salvation for creation today I, like St Paul, can be more useful alive to that work of God’s and consider being useless in it after death.
This is a very important point. We offer a discussion space to dive deeper into topics like this on Admirato.org, the new home of N.T. Wright Online. You can visit our free discussion platform by signing up here: www.admirato.org/products/communities/freestudyhall
We'd love to continue the conversation there!
Dear Prof. Wright, thank you very much for everything you do! To the idea of going to heaven: Doesn't Jesus' ascension to heaven warrant the belief that we will join him there one day? Thank you and God bless!
Thank you for your kind words - we appreciate the encouragement! Regarding your question, Revelation 21 is helpful for understanding this further. There we see the joining of heaven and earth together beautifully depicted, and God's presence descending to dwell with us.
N.T. Wright Online has also shared this video which can be helpful for further exploration: th-cam.com/video/72NvP1b82yg/w-d-xo.html.
We appreciate your great question and hope to hear from you soon! ~Charleen at N.T. Wright Online
Hello Tom - I know that this question is out of place here, but I figured it may be my best chance to 'speak' with you. Through the years, you have often mentioned creating and surrounding yourself with beauty. I like it! My wife and I try to incorporate this into our life together. I have always wondered though if you got this notion from scripture? I can't say that I have really gleaned this from scripture. While on earth, Jesus, his ministry, his model of living for the kingdom, to name a few, did not reflect this notion. I can surmise though (perhaps), that the beauty in life came from doing, talking and having the heart of Jesus regarding our fellow humans. This is not a challenge, I am just looking for clarification.....as a fellow follower of Jesus. I do thank you! (Kettle Falls, WA, USA)
Thank you for your thoughtful question. We encourage further discussion like this and have provided a new learning platform upon which to engage in community and talk more about these matters. Admirato, the new home of N.T. Wright Online, consists of a whole community of learners who would love to engage with your questions and insights. To enjoy these more in-depth discussions, please join us there and start a discussion in our Free Study Hall. You will also find free online classes, eBooks, and Bible plans. Here is where you can begin: www.admirato.org/bundles/read
Great question and Tom addresses it his recent short book Broken Signposts: How Christianity Makes Sense of the World. It's a great read.
Can't help hearing Daddy Pig when I hear your voice 😂😂😂
Thank you for another great video👍
Haha, that's quite the comparison! Thank you for the laugh and for your support. Glad you enjoyed the video! --NTW Online Team
Philippians 3:15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Amen!
Speaking for myself only, I do not want to "come back" whether coming back means reincarnation, rescue of this world, etc., etc. I just want out of here forever.
Then you shall have it.
thank you
Your awesome NT Wright
We appreciate your support of our channel. We are glad you are enjoying the content!
--NTW Online Team
After listening to this, could it be that what Jesus meant when He said “you must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven” is that our bodies must be resurrected when God’s Kingdom comes to Earth and makes things new and not something that we experience in this flesh body when we “accept Jesus as our personal savior?”
We appreciate your reflections, thank you for sharing your thoughts! While we await our future resurrection and the consummation of all God's New Creation promises, Jesus says, "God's kingdom isn't the sort of thing you can watch for and see coming. People won't say, 'Look, here it is,' or 'Look, over there!' No: God's kingdom is in your grasp." (Luke 17:20-21) Also, Luke 11:20 shows that the kingdom is already present in Jesus's ministry. We live in a "now and not yet" tension where we have God's kingdom in our midst as we wait for the Day when we will have its fullness. (Rev. 21:1-5) --NTW Online Team
If I am understanding correctly, the kingdom of God is experienced in the "now" as a spiritual event since it is something that cannot be watched or seen, and the "not yet" is a physical future event when God's kingdom comes down to meet Earth? Or are they both spiritual events? Thank you for taking the time to help me understand. 🙂@@NTWrightOnline
As Jesus was raised from bodily death, so also those in Christ will be raised from bodily death. Our bodily resurrection in the kingdom of God is part of the "not yet" part of the kingdom reality we have now. For further insights, I hope you will continue through the whole series! bit.ly/3Lkqz0j Regards, NTW Online Team
I’m not even sure about life after death and I’ve been a Christian all my life. I’m now 80…it just seems so impossible to my logical mind.
Your consciousness is very much electromagnetic energy. It doesn’t just cease to exist when you die, it has to go somewhere. Your body is, in many ways, an expression of that consciousness. So the idea of life after death is very much a possibility even from a modern scientific perspective.
"They which live and believe in Me SHALL NEVER DIE" - Jesus Christ. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him SHALL NOT PERISH but have EVERLASTING LIFE" - Jesus Christ. I choose what CHRIST said - NO ONE ELSE...including preachers!
God please continue to give me strength. As Christians it’s important to trust God no matter what we are going through. God is our only strength in this world. Like many other single parents things are tough on me. Both of my sons are autistic. I’m constantly struggling to provide for them and now that I’m home schooling them my hours to work are limited. I’m overwhelmed. Father God hear my prayers. My faith in you is strong! Even as I constantly struggle to pay my rent. And I constantly struggle to provide groceries for my children. I get mocked by others because I cry out to you Lord! But I trust you. I’m keeping faith. Walking with faith is the most important thing us christian’s must do. That’s why love compassion and prayers are all we truly need. Please keep me and my boys in your prayers.
You’re even on this channel??? Stop.
Prayers going up for you and your boys ❤
Well said N.T.
Jesus told the mourners that the daughter of Jairus was "sleeping". Was she not 'present with the Lord'? Kudos to Dr Wright.
An old story. Also called “a universe made for me”.
I understand why Dr. Wright has issues with 'going to heaven' - it suggests the abandonment of the earth and the neglect of the resurrection of the body. But if we will be with Jesus and his Father, we will certainly go to places we have never been before and even beyond creation (i.e. heaven.) And here is where I really disagree. How is going to be with Christ, surrounded in the love of God and suffering from sin and death no more before the resurrection of the body, NOT a rescue from death?
We were rescued from death when we passed from death unto life, upon believing the gospel of Jesus.
Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live; And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believeth thou this?”
Death is more than the absence of physical life. Those who have never believed the gospel are dead as far as God is concerned.
To be in Jesus is to be free from death. To be with Jesus is to have life eternal. The believer will never be separated from Jesus.
@@CanadianGospelMission
The state of the dead, according to the word of God.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die*
{Genesis 2:17}
Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep*
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
👉till my change come.
...
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
{Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21}
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God.
{Job 19:26}
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest.
{The Preacher 9:10}
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish*
{Psalm 146:3-4}
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
{John 11:12-14}
...
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection
👉at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:"
{John 11:24-25}
But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days*
{Daniel 12:13}
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life.
{John 3:16}
And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die*
{Genesis 3:4}
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire*
{Ezekiel 28:14}
^
(satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.)
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
*He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil*
{Isaiah 33:14-15}
If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Is what you mentioned about the temporary place a hades? There are quite a number of verses in NT talks about hades, would you please explain what a hades is? Is hades a location where all the souls live in waiting for the finial judgment? Thanks.
These are great questions. Prof. Wright is semi-retired and does not personally monitor this channel. He does speak about this topic in various places including articles like this one: ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/jesus-resurrection-and-christian-origins/ and in his online course "The Resurrection of the Son of God" www.ntwrightonline.org/portfolio-items/resurrection/?portfolioCats=50%2C52%2C49%2C51
I hope this helps you as you continue to seek for answers.
--NTW Online Team
Hades(greek)=Sheol(hebrew)=the grave
Thanks brother Wright.
Your dead ones will live. Isaiah 26:19
As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.
1 Corinthians 15:26
For the living are conscious that they will die;
but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all
Ecclesiastes 9:5
Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine-they will rise up.
Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust!
For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself
will let even those impotent in death drop in birth.
Isaiah 26:19
"Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming
in which all those in the memorial tombs
will hear his voice and come out"
John 5:28,29
Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life.
He that faith in me, even though he dies,
will come to life; and everyone that is living and
faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?”
She said to him: “Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are
the Christ the Son of God, the One coming into the world.
John 11:25-27
But when this which is mortal puts on immortality,
then the saying will take place that is written:
“Death is swallowed up forever.”
“Death, where is your victory?
Death, where is your sting?”
The sting producing death is sin,
but the power for sin is the Law.
But thanks to God, for he gives us the victory
through our Lord Jesus Christ!
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes,
and death will be no more, neither will mourning
nor outcry nor pain be anymore.
The former things have passed away.”
And the One seated on the throne said:
“Look! I am making all things new.”
Also, he says: “Write, because these words
are faithful and true.”
Revelation 21:4, 5
Thank you for sharing this beautiful hope from scripture! How encouraging it is to hold such promises. Thank you for these reminders of our secure hope in the Lord! --NTW Online Team
Is that the reason why, in the past, the church presented itself as a way to a salvation? Is that why the Gospel talks more about what we need to do instead of God did and is going to do?
I have a little knowledge in the Bible, but what I understand on the conversation of Jesus and the other criminal on the cross when Jesus has said "TODAY you will be with ME in Paradise" - today for me is NOW while Wright interprets it WAITING, Jesus promised the criminal that right at that day, he will be with Jesus in Paradise where Jesus dwell (dwell). Another thing is how can someone understand the Bible if some of the literal words or text is not what is meant to be.
What's helpful is reading it and understanding the historical, theological and cultural context it's written in. Start Genesis 1 vs 1 and a literal reading in todays context and culture has you thinking of the universe and the earth as seen from space... (created heaven's and the earth) except this is written over 3000 years ago... so no concept of that in the writers mind.
In Matthew 12:40, Jesus gives us a clue where he was when He died. He was in the grave for 3 days. He couldn't have possibly been in paradise at the same time
"Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house (in heaven) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; *that where I am* there (in heaven) you may be also.
And where I go you know, and the way you know."
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: *no man* comes unto the Father (who art in heaven), *but* by me."
{John 14:1-6}
Well, he's wrong about paradise, Jesus himself said that's where his Father was, also, the original Hebrew and Greek have no punctuation. The original scholars in translating the Bible were the ones who had to figure out where to use commas, periods, and what have you. The comma in the verse " I say unto you, today you will be with me in paradise. " is in the wrong spot, we know this because at Jesus's resurrection, Mary went to touch him and Jesus said " Do not cling to me for I have not yet ascended to my father in heaven. " The comma in this particular verse should read as follows " I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise. " This changes the context of the verse. Previously in how it is written the thief went to heaven with Jesus that day upon their death.
1.) There are two things wrong with this belief, I covered the first one in the first paragraph, Jesus told Mary he hadn't been to heaven yet.
2.) Roman crucifixion was a slow and painful death usually resulting in death between 2-4 days from asphyxiation, Jesus died on the same day he was crucified, both thieves were nailed with him since they were probably both barely clinging to life on Sunday morning and Jesus told Mary he hadn't been to heaven yet, you can only draw on conclusion. That is death is death, a timeless, dreamless state in which Paul and many of the other disciples called " Sleep ".
3.) This would make sense since the Jews believed that sheol was the grave where someone went after they died. Jewish people didn't believe in life after death, this was a Greek concept along with the belief that we have a soul and it goes to the place of the dead " Hades " which was later used by Roman Catholicism as an interpretation of hell. The " Immortal Soul " and " Eternal Hell " doctrines both derive from Greek and Roman Mythology and aren't taught in the original New Testament scriptures. People would know this if they studied their English Bible with a " Strongs Concordance " to get the true interpretation of the Bible, and if they studied the history of Christianity, Rome, and the Reformation.
The way to get as many people into heaven as you can is to get heaven into as many people as you can-that is, to follow the path of genuine spiritual transformation or full-throttle discipleship to Jesus Christ. When we are counting up results we also need to keep in mind the multitudes of people (surrounded by churches) who will not be in heaven because they have never, to their knowledge, seen the reality of Christ in a living human being.
Dallas Willard
Renovation of the Heart: Putting On the Character of Christ.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord…..where is The Lord Jesus……He is seated at the right hand of God. As that is in Heaven therefore when I die I will be where The Lord Jesus.
*I beheld the earth* and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
I beheld, and, lo, there was *no man* and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and *all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD* and by his fierce anger.
For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; *yet will I not make a full end*
For this shall *the earth mourn* and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
{Jeremiah 4:23-28}
^
For a thousand years.
But the rest of *the dead* lived not again *until the thousand years were finished* This is the first resurrection.
{Revelation 20:5}
^
The verse does not read the rest of *the living and* the dead, for there will be no man living on this earth ofter the wrath of God is poured out upon the ungodly, at Christ Jesus second coming, with all of his holy angels, at the first resurrection, at the last day, and satan will be bound in chains of circumstance for a thousand years with no man left on earth to corrupt with his temptations and lawlessness.
Thomas, Paul knew that he would be asleep as all others when he would die.
He wrote what expected him personally. (Lk 16 is a parody against the Pharisaic superstition.)
This God sounds like a child in a playground: first he creates the world and then he destroys it when he realises that it is imperfect and it needs salvation. I can imagine that cycle repeating itself ad infinitum. God save us!
I agree with N.T. that the story of the Bible is the salvation of the world. But I don't see any contradiction to say as Paul seems to in Philippians 1:23 that upon death we go to be with Christ. That is not our final destination; we wait as he waits for the revelation of the sons of God and the liberation of this creation from its bonds of decay (Romans 8:20-25). But the in between is glory as much as the resurrection and the new heavens and new earth. What is better than to be with Christ? What N.T. is emphasizing is the new heavens and new earth, and that is something I can hardily agree with. It too will be being with Christ.
@doncamp1150 We appreciate your honesty and encourage you to explore this topic further. N.T. Wright offers a course and study group for in-depth discussions. If interested, here's the link: www.admirato.org/courses/Surprised-by-the-God-of-Hope
I can't tell if he's saying we'll go to heaven or not. If we are, I expect to be perfectly happy there, regardless of what God intends to do in some possibly far off millennium. At any rate, watch Don Preston's Why Wright Is Wrong.
We are the new creation in partial now
Unfortunately this is such a common caricature it keeps many people from Jesus. So many times I’ve heard “I’m saved” and if you don’t believe you’re going to hell. Which most responses are geez thanks for the good news 😂
These [The Patriarchs] all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed THAT THEY WERE STRANGERS AND PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH.
For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
But now they desire a better country, THAT IS AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: *for he hath prepared for them a city*
{Romans 11:13-16}
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for GREAT IS YOUR REWARD IN HEAVEN: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
{Matthew 5:12}
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, *we have a building of God* an house not made with hands, eternal *in the heavens*
{2 Corinthians 5:1}
So he just said we don’t go to heaven when we die. I guess we go to “sleep” in a state on non-consciousness until the resurrection.
Well that isnt true, Im not sure I follow what he js saying. He sounds like he is working towards a purgatory type thing
No. He said we don't go to Plato's heaven which is very different than the biblical one. Plato imagined heaven as the real, perfect world of which this one is but a distorted shadow.
Mmm, an ‘inbetween’. Not a perfect descriptor but there probably isn’t one.
@@michaelkistner6286 From your understanding, what did NTW say the believer goes immediately after death?
That is not what he said at all. He said, correctly, that what happens immediately after we die is not the focus of the New Testament. And that tying together salvation with heaven is a complete misrepresentation of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. Which again, is accurate. Salvation in the Bible is always spoken about God making things right for this world, his good creation.
Right so we're getting smarter and smarter not
The state of the dead, according to the word of God.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die*
{Genesis 2:17}
Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep*
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
👉till my change come.
...
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
{Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21}
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God.
{Job 19:26}
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest.
{The Preacher 9:10}
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish*
{Psalm 146:3-4}
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
{John 11:12-14}
...
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection
👉at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:"
{John 11:24-25}
But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days*
{Daniel 12:13}
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life.
{John 3:16}
And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die*
{Genesis 3:4}
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire*
{Ezekiel 28:14}
^
(satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.)
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
*He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil*
{Isaiah 33:14-15}
If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Ok. Good video. But the question remains. What happens when we die? Are we just sleeping waiting for new creation? Is heaven like grand central station where we are waiting for new creation? I get it. There is no firm answer in the Bible. But surely a people living in the levant amongst other nations having stories about what happens with the soul would inspire the Israelites asking the same question, no?
Thank you for your insightful question. In addressing the question of what happens when we die, N.T. Wright suggests in his course, “Suprised by the God of Hope” (available on www.Admirato.org) that when Paul speaks of people "sleeping" in Jesus or having "fallen asleep," he is using a metaphor for death rather than implying unconsciousness. The idea is that this metaphorical “sleep” signifies a transition from the present world's form of life to a different state. Paul's statement about it being "far better" to be with Jesus implies a conscious experience rather than an unconscious one. This suggests an intermediate state after death, where individuals are not physically alive but are in some sense "with Jesus" as they await the final resurrection. The metaphorical sleep, therefore, doesn't entail a lack of awareness but rather signifies a different mode of existence.
If you'd like to explore this topic further, our team at N.T. Wright Online invites you to our discussion forum where we engage theological topics such as this. You are very welcome to join! www.admirato.org/products/communities/discussion
I guess the question is does a psyche or persona need to be embodied to be manifest, does life need a body to be manifest, is a body any use without life. My life is safe with the Lord, but the body and life have to be together to be a functioning unit. My identity is safe in Christ awaiting re manifestation. I certainly expect to be asleep in the everlasting arms till I am awoken. However who am I to have an idea, but I do think life is a really big deal and one is either alive or dead. The chip has to be in the device for there to be functioning entity.
but but but... to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where the Lord (Jesus) is so shall we be also. Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you..etc" Thats a PLACE and it isn't here. Thats what we call heaven. And what about the people who don't go to heaven. Where do they go? Gods Judgement hasn't happened yet, so they haven't been judged for hell either.
These are excellent thoughts! We discuss these things in more depth on our website, Admirato.org. We offer many courses that explain in more detail what a short TH-cam video clip cannot. I hope you will join our many discussions and bring your thoughts into them! We appreciate a diversity of views in a gracious community. www.admirato.org/
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give *every man* according as his work shall be.”
{Revelation 22:11-12}
^
When Jesus Christ comes again he will execute the judgment that have been determined in heaven.
To the end [objective] he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness *before* God, even our Father, [who art in heaven] at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ *with all his saints*
{1 Thessalonians 3:13}
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:”
{John 11:25}
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's *at his coming*
{1 Corinthians 15:23}
@@larrybedouin2921 I'm not quite sure why you are quoting bible passages to me without context. In my comment I was referring to the soul sleep theory and the judgement. Here is my take on it, you die, you get judged, you are either with Jesus/God in heaven or not. It's that simple. The soul sleep theory has no basis. Specifically, Heb 9:27 is directly talking about this topic. You die, you get judged. Pretty back and white.
@@daveconner9520
The state of the dead, according to the word of God.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die*
{Genesis 2:17}
Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep*
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
*till my change come*
...
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
{Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21}
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God.
{Job 19:26}
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest.
{The Preacher 9:10}
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish*
{Psalm 146:3-4}
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
{John 11:12-14}
...
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection
*at the last day*
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:"
{John 11:24-25}
But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days*
{Daniel 12:13}
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life.
{John 3:16}
And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die*
{Genesis 3:4}
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire*
{Ezekiel 28:14}
^
(satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.)
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
*He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil*
{Isaiah 33:14-15}
If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Here's an interesting question.
What happens when you ask a question if nobody knows the answer ?
Easy, you convert millions of people to Christianity !
"This may come as a shock, but going to be with Jesus the Messiah after you die isn’t the end of the story."
the sh0ck is that s0me0ne has the arr0gance t0 actuaIIy beIieve they kn0w
what happens after death
So the Jehovah witness says this also
Well I like this but you’re ignoring the “sleep verses” the in the grave where you are going you have no thoughts… death is equated to sleep and rest .. Daniel 12 as for you the Angel says go to rest until the end of days where you will rise and receive your inheritance- aka glorified body …
Otherwise great great stuff
What happens after we die? We begin to decompose. (You're welcome)
Woody Allen has the answer: "You lie there."
The problem with his theology is that he does not seem to understand that we are already in the new heavens and the new earth. New Testament scholars always forget to link the book of Revelation to the Old Testament language. I have heard of NT Wright and I am sure that the is a true scholar, but you can spend a lifetime reading and studying scripture and if you start from the wrong assumption you will end in the wrong place (ie back on earth) The second issue I have is... where is the proof text for your assumptions sir? It will seem to me that he is using his reputation as a scholar to put authority to his words instead of using the bible as the authority.
No one is saying salvation is about leaving this world and going off to some other place. What a straw man argument. Salvation is about “escaping the wrath to come.” Whose wrath? The Lords wrath. Tom’s picture of earth slowly being overtaken by heaven completely leaves out the coming judgement talked about throughout the New Testament. Don’t fall for this line of teaching.
*The Queen Of Sheba*
The life of the human aeon.
The Ante-Deluvian aeon for the first generation was up to a thousand years for each person Methuselah being an exception.
I have to believe this is true though to a modern mind it is laughable, but we need to understand the perception and beliefs of these ancient people because it is an important concept which sets boundaries.
In relation to this longevity Jesus states Matthew 24:22
_And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened_
Jesus therefore clearly means that resurrection included reincarnation, but there is a distinct difference between *The Resurrection* and _resurrection_ The former being an end to the Aeon and the latter just the souls coming and going to gain nourishment for its being.
_John 10:9 I am the door; if anyone enters by me he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture_
*The importance of Luke 20:34-36*
_34 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; 35 but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection_
Based upon the Bible truth that judgement does not occur until the soul has completed multiple resurrections (reincarnations) and can no longer attain rebirth in the physical world, that passage, relies on Jesus understanding of what he revealed about the unbelieving Jews in relation to the Queen of Sheba’s Resurrection. *Note capital R*
_Matthew 12:41 The queen of the South will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here_
Jesus teaches here the boundaries of aeons as a thousand years from one Resurrection to another, so those Jews who railed against him would be able to live out their lives until such time as they could no longer be reborn and then be judged, and at that judgement the Queen of the South would Arise and condemn them, this is the same meaning as Resurrection. Her life was recorded as being 9th century B.C. a thousand years accurarately places her Resurrection in the 1st century A.D.
Therefore Jesus had a meticulous understanding of resurrections reincarnation, and Resurrection, as he states “I AM the Resurrection and the Life” And guess what, the Queen of the South wasn’t even a Catholic.
I too have reached the stage where I have already been judged, and my future in Paradise will be among those people whose earthly lives ended in the last thousand years I will be particularly friendly to King Peter I of Portugal and his wife Inez de Castro who died in the 12th century, I am destined to watch them as they resurrect from dust in their sarcophagus, He will arise first and he will go to his wife’s regenerated body and help her from her sarcophagus, then both of them will walk over to a beam of light and ascend into the world of the 3rd day.
This is not Catholic teaching this is Biblical teaching Catholic teaching has been unable to comprehend what has been written because it understands through a very narrow prism.
_Doctors of arts, medicine, law and philosophy can be made by the pope, the emperor and the universities; but be quite sure that no-one can make a doctor of Holy Scripture save only the Holy Ghost from heaven, as Christ says in John vi ‘They must all be taught by God himself’. Now the Holy Ghost does not ask after red or brown robes, or what is showy, whether a man is young or old , clerical or lay, monastic or secular, virgin or married. Indeed , he once spake by an ass against the prophet that rode on it, would that we were worthy that such doctors be given us…” (Luther, An d. chr. Adel deutch. Nation v. d.v.d. chr. Standes Besserung. 1520, W.A. ,. 6. pg 460, 1, 28 from Church Dogmatics by Karl Barth vol 1.1 pg 19_
1 Corinthians 15:17-23 KJVS
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. [18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. [19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. [20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. [21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1 Timothy 4:9-11 KJVS
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. [10] For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [11] These things command and teach.
But do they?
"How do I get to heaven? And somebody says, well, you've got to believe this." Yes, his name was Jesus. "You've got to belong to this or that church."--Mixing this up with believing in Jesus as your Savior, according to his words? Isn't that a Strawman Fallacy, or sth like that? "The Bible isn't about that story"...of individuals getting saved by trusting God for a free gift? When I read it, that's one of the main stories I read. You don't have to be a theologian to understand the Bible, do you?
1:57 _The Bible is not very clear on where we are between death and resurrection_
Nonsense, Jesus teaches the Dying thief that he will be in Paradise _This Day_ with Jesus.
Jesus teaches that the Queen of the South is to Arise contiguously with the judgment of those jews who heckled Jesus.
Understand this as the Queen was leaving Paradise by Resurrection and Ascension the hecklers were being judged, this means that they were about to enter Paradise as celestial children.
Nobody can enter Paradise without being judged and according to Luke 20:34-37 people may have opportunities for rebirth so they are saved _from Judgment_ because they only reincarnate. But to become a celestial child _you must be saved by Judgment_
*Jesus Christ does not Judge*
John 8:15
_You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one._
John 8:50
_Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it and he will be the judge._
John 12:47
_If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world._
John 5:221-23
_21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 _*_The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honour the Son,_*_ even as they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him._
John McAuthur had it right about this man, his name should be N.T. Wrong!
There is an issue that Mr Wright does not take into account and it is the dimensions set by God for certain creatures to inhabit such as the earth and the heavens, it is stated that there are three heavens, one is the heaven that the Hebrews call the recluse of the waters. and what we scientifically call the atmosphere where the clouds reside and where precipitation occurs such as rain, snow, and other factors such as the oxygen we breathe. When sunset comes we appreciate another heaven that is the cosmos where the sun, the moon, the stars and the planets live. And then we have in another dimension like a third heaven where God the Father and his Son who are one sit on the throne, and there are also angelic beings. The fact is Mr Wright that in the book of the revelation of John there are a multitude of saved people who await the regeneration of the world and are in that temporary paradise or third heaven until there are new heavens and a new earth. The ancestral day and night celestial observation, both Hebrew and other nations, is identified in two heavens, the atmosphere and the cosmos. The third heaven requires a vision that is not ocular but prophetic because it is inaccessible to the retina of our eyes.
Answering the title... Not a lot... Thats why its called death.
Decomposition.
Funny how angry these people make me with their preposterous ideas and bombastic language. For people that preach love above all, they have a lot of blood on their hands.
This is a false teacher. Read your bible. Scholars are John MacCarther, John Barnett and Alister Begg.
The Bible is simply not consistent or univocal when it discusses what happens after death.
We would love to hear your feedback on the resources where these matters are discussed in depth. On our new website, Admirato.org, we offer free resources, including an eBook covering this topic. If interested, join our free "Read" membership and find the eBook called, "Resurrection and Renewal of Creation". www.admirato.org/courses/take/ebook-resource-library/pdfs/44052404-resurrection-and-the-renewal-of-creation. We also have a "Free Study Hall" where you can discuss what you are learning in our new online community. It is a great place to discuss Professor Wright's theology in depth with other learners.
This sounds like u are preaching of purgutory, that isnt a thing. It is either heaven or hell.
What he's saying is that the separation between heaven and earth is going to be healed and so our future life will be lived in the restored earth. Those who die now go to be with the lord until he returns bringing them with him. That's nothing like the doctrine of purgatory where we would go to be purged (hence the name) of our unconfessed sin.
He didn't say a thing about purgatory and if you knew anything about NT Wright, you would know he has explicitly spoken against the idea of purgatory.
@@darkknightsds u assume that I know his videos, why is that? Also he says as we are waiting for new bodies……hmm
@@michaelkistner6286 When we die and go to be with the lord....will we be 'alive ' in him . For example ..I die and am waiting to be cremated..am I simultaneously.. alive 'with Christ' fully conscious ?
We believe the answer is a resounding "yes"! We can take comfort in knowing we remain alive "with Christ" fully conscious. We have started an online discussion community on our website, Admirato.org, where we love to go further in discussions like this. Please consider joining for free here: www.admirato.org/bundles/read
I'd like to know how it's possible that God can intervene in this world and still be an objective judge.
I'd also like to know what the soul is made of since we understand particle physics to the point where we know how mass is created in the universe. If the soul is made of matter, we would know it. If energy, it will disperse from its source at light speed in every direction until it's absorbed by and indistinguishable from the background radiation of the universe.
I would also like to know what a MORAL FACT is? In a morally relativistic universe, it's possible that my moral opinion could be better than God's. That reduces goodness to might makes right, which is not good. Therefore, God is not good; he's just strong.
You people just don't think.
Many think that Christian morals and principals are good for society. which is a good litmus test for their understanding of Christ's teaching. be a good person... and then what?
Great question! N.T. Wright dedicates a whole book to this very topic called, "After You Believe." He argues that Christian character is part of what it means to be God's New Creation people, reflecting his image and fulfilling the purpose for which we were created. Morals are not the end goal but are essential for fulfilling our call in creation, bearing God's image and governing wisely. Here is a short video you may like: th-cam.com/video/tcgiKMBWXrk/w-d-xo.html. We also offer a free course that further explores aspects of this topic: www.admirato.org/courses/faith-working-through-love As you continue to explore, please let us know what you think!
--NTW Online Team