Why Baseball Card Collectors Are My Favorite
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- One things sets baseball card collectors apart from the rest in my opinion. Let's Data Dive
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1:52 I made a mistake and forgot about Trout's lone playoff series vs the Royals in 2014. Go easy on me! 😆
I am fairly new to the hobby but 3 things I have learned are
1. People collect nostalgia
2. People invest in speculation and hype
3. People collect AND invest in greatness
5 years ago I was 80% basketball, now I'm 80% baseball b/c I can follow the baseball collectors use logic and common sense more.
Yeah that’s why elly cards were selling for 10+
As an older collector i now primarily collect football and i get so tired of hearing the goat talk strictly due to championships. Great take and excellent explanation. Some of us football guys get it.
You are spot on with Brady and Manning that’s rarely discussed.
You have the Number 1 over draft pick with everyone and their brother after that card. Then you have the second to last pick who most people had never heard of. Why do you think he doesn't mention the Pop count on Manning's card? Scarcity is what drives the price difference between these 2 guys.
@@jaridgibbs5422To be fair, he did refer to the BGS 10 Supreme version of the Manning refractor, not just the normal PSA 10.
@@jaridgibbs5422I'm sorry. BGS Pristine not the Taco Bell Supreme version.
The total graded pop count of Brady refractor is 416 and the manning refractor is 747. So you are telling me the scarcity difference is worth 300k of value?
Aaron Rodgers also had a bottom defense on most of his packers playoff runs and he has 4 MVPs and his cards are very affordable. At some point narrative was changed that he plays bad in playoffs.
That’s not a narrative, his stats literally show that he’s terrible in the playoffs.
@@chefchrissell last I looked his stats weren’t bad but maybe not at regular season level. Defenses are also better deeper in playoffs and his stats should have been good enough with even a mediocre defense.
@@chefchrissellHe's had some really bad luck in the playoffs and his defenses have given up a ton of points.
He’s also a bit of an ass that doesn’t help
Aaron Rodgers winning a SB with, the New York Jets would change the affordability of his cards. I don't think it will happen, but there have been worse teams/QB's that have, won Super Bowls so, we will see what happens.
You killed it with this one! Awesome analysis, it's great to hear someone smart talking about this!
Modern quarterbacks take the cake as far as overvalued. Guys literally have done nothing but since they are a QB they instantly become valuable. That makes no sense at all
T-Pot, you finally got it right with this one! Your breakdown of baseball card “collectors” was practically spot on and I as one of those collectors appreciate the face that you did not portray yourself as a subject matter expert in baseball card collecting. HOFers, stats, overall history (and sometimes connection with player(s)) is what drives collectors and their reasoning for their specified collecting habits. I myself dwell on the history of the player as my top tier reason and everything else follows. Thanks for this one…we need more baseball content like this
agree Love the Tea Kettle
Finally someone else sees it. QBs get way to much credit for SB wins when they even have horrible games or their defense wins them.
Agreed. Tom Brady (not saying he isn't great), had Adam Vinateri for several of his Super Bowl wins...Jim Kelly of, the Buffalo Bills could have used that in, the Super Bowls he played in.
Vintage sports shacks says clone t-pot, fire the rest!!!
Spot on with this one T-Pot! I think this is why there is so much value football and basketball hof'er cards. As this hobby grows there is a high probability that there will be more collectors that value hof'ers like they do in baseball driving those prices up and making them strong investments now
There is a Mathematical quotient required to achieve card demand and that is called "Shwag". Alot of card value comes to "shwag"
I've been thinking that for years and your right baseball collector are more faithful fans... i believe it because of the cultural difference baseball fans are more conservative than fans of other sports it's not base upon hype or social media driven but raw stats and are they true hall of famers... im a football and basketball player collector to the core ... i collect of the unappreciated or forget players of the past like the kemps, gary payton, karl malone and John stockton, big ben and moss etc.. but i really appreciate being able to pick up those players at great value so more for me lol... great video
Great video! Love the education and insight.
Great video. I agree that Manning is underpriced. Personally, I have no problem with a rare and important Brady demanding multiple six figures. I think the person who just bought that Manning for $12k is brilliant. Wish I had done it. The day is coming when public perception and comps will align to drive manning prices. For many years willie mays was “the manning “ to mantle. Collectors finally elevated his value. Good stuff. Love your videos. 🙌🏻
Baseball card collectors are the smartest and wealthiest in the sports card hobby.
Cheers.
Baseball collectors are more collectors than investors imo.
100% agree. When I sell a cool baseball card, the buyer tells me hes wanted it for years, and will hold. When I sell basketball, people tell me its going up and they hope to make money in a couple of weeks.
@@jasonabernethy8424 the basketball collectors were mostly in Asia pre Covid. That market has changed a lot and that’s why it’s hurting. Football is going to crash soon. Too many QBs and only one ring each year
This drop is a Home Run... Thanks T-Pot!
Great video please stay in this lane. Don’t go around defending other channels when they make egregious mistakes simply because scr calls them out. I get you feel they mistreated Geoff but the whole chasing cardboard thing they aren’t wrong. You may think they sensationalized a little but listen to what Ty said to them. They did reach out to him and his responses did himself no favors. Again excellent video filled with excellent data and keen observations.
You are definitely correct!! Also great football players at non quarterback positions should be higher valued. Barry Sanders , Jerry Rice etc.
I'm here for all the Tom Brady shade that can be thrown!!!
Very solid point. If there was ever a video I’d want others to see , it would be this one
Well said!
Why are you ignoring the entire hockey card hobby? The Expo is the second biggest show in the world. There are a bunch of hockey card collectors out there.
I am just not as familiar with hockey. Not ignoring it, just can't speak to things I do not personally know as well. But I love the hockey community!
I’m football the quarterbacks only play offense (yeah starting obvious) but having a top 10 defense has a huge impact on winning Super Bowl.
The thumbnail is why I collect T-Potts hair. Peyton Manning should be worth 10x what he is. It’s insane.
I agree with you 100%!
great stuff.... keen insights.... Geoff W. would never come up with this content...
It's about 40% Baseball 30% Basketball 30% Football more even here, and I do take pride in knowing all 3 sports rookies and all even high school top 100 I understand it's going deeper than necessary but it all ties together eventually and when I hear a guy I know from the top 100 in high school it does help with giving me a edge
Love these shows!! 👍👍👍💪💪💪💪
Not sure we should be comparing a Larry Walker Topps Tiffany RC to a Shawn Kemp Hoops RC. Topps Tiffany wasn’t a packed out product and had a limited print run. Apples to Oranges. A base Larry Walker Topps RC is probably the better comparison. And it sells for $45. Exact same as Kemp.
My favorite video T-Pott has done! Well said my friend!
Great take Tyler. As a baseball collector who diversifies his collection across the Top 100 players of all time, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. 😂
See you at the National buddy!
I wholeheartedly share that hope with you, Tyler. You are spot on with your analysis, thanks for the breakdown.
Every time I see that Brady I think of when I got back into the hobby.. My biggest miss!
Found a guy on marketplace that said his father passed away and he was selling all his stuff from storage. Had tons of binders full of names I knew, but I had no idea what the cards were. His profile pic was him holding a 9mm and the caption was something about thug life, so when he suggested I come to his house to check them out I passed. Instead he grabbed just a couple binders and met me at the mall parking lot. When we met we were both in a hurry so I quickly grabbed a binder for $50 that I saw a couple good players in and then I told him I'd meet him later. By the time I contacted him again they were all gone.
After doing research i found out that many of the cards I was looking at in his marketplace add were bowman, bowman chrome, and bowman chrome refractors of Brady. And that was just the beginning of the great stuff. And out of all the great stuff I could have grabbed, I got a baseball binder that was sorted alphabetically from U to Z.... Yes in the binder that had the T's there were a ton of Trout rookies... Still hurts.. lol
The Larry Walker / Shawn Kemp comparison isn’t apt for two reasons. First, Kemp is not in the HOF. Second, the 150th greatest NBA player isn’t as memorable as the 150th in baseball, purely because of the total number of players who played each sport professionally over the years. Also, was the Walker card a Topps Tiffany? That’s less junk-waxy than the base Hoops in collectors’ eyes.
Still, I generally agree that baseball card collectors tend to be more reasonable in valuing the greats. And I appreciate the content as always.
I do agree, I have my PC geared to Michael Jordan/then Baseball HOF Rookies/followed by KC Chief High End
Great take, I wished Football and Basketball respected other great players like baseball does. I think people just tend to forget that it takes a lot more than 1 player in any sport to win a championship. Only baseball collectors seem to see that though.
Great video, TPott! Agree! Always enjoy your content. You’re making a strong argument for more love to players like DBook, Joel, Reggie Miller, Vince Carter, can’t remember if Penny ever won…anyway, great points!
Kawhii & the shot! Game of inches. Maybe no Raps championship. Maybe 76ers! Maybe Steph has another ring... game of inches
Great video. Generally agree but baseball definitely does ‘overweight’ the value of some players like Mantle. The spread between Mantle and Frank Robinson (comparable player from same era) is larger than Brady vs Peyton or Jordan vs Malone. Similarly, look at Griffey Jr. vs Frank Thomas - significant difference in price for same card sets. Both amazing players.
Baseball collectors do value HOF but can be a bit rigid in their beliefs (don’t prospect, buy well centered vintage of HOF players, pitchers aren’t worth much besides Koufax and some pre-War guys, grading is a bit of a scam, etc )
Anyways, thought-provoking content. Thanks for sharing.
When it comes to the Larry Walker vs Shawn Kemp PSA 10’s there’s twice as many Shawn Kemp’s. Plus I think there’s more set collectors in baseball, plus the hype of just going into the hall.
T-pot, as a baseball card collector I agree with you on most of what you said, but the disparity does happen in baseball as well. I am a Justin Verlander collector and if you compare his cards to his closest peer in MLB, Clayton Kershaw, Verlander cards are drastically underpriced. If you look at Verlander's 2005 Topps PSA 10 they sell for between 150-175. If you look at Kershaw's 2008 Topps Update PSA 10 they are selling for 4-5x that amount. Verlander is .3 WAR less then Kershaw in his career so they are neck and neck statistically.
I think most people forgot or weren’t collecting but in manning final playing years his contender rookie was selling higher than Brady’s high end stuff. I could see the gap closing.
I think there is 1 other aspect to consider in this conversation, and its HALL OF FAME. The baseball HOF is one of thee most cherished accomplishments in all of sports, any sport included. Its revered, all of the media speak high praises and player in the baseball HOF are always referred to as HOFer. Considering Football and basketball, those 2 HOF's are simply just not mentioned on the same level ever when the conversation comes up, now in more recent years during sportscasting the NBA has tried to mention their HOF more but it clearly does not have the same appeal, stature, prestige that the MLB HOF does, and its not even close.
Now where does that mantra of the MLB HOF being held is such high regards when mentioned so deeply across all media aspects in comparison to the Basketball or Football HOF? and......go
I am man from Poland
I like base ball game
How can you not be romantic about baseball- Of course, it's just my opinion, but baseball is the greatest sport of all.
I get the #150 comparison between Walker and Kemp. Kemp started out huge, and lost hype each year until he got fat and horrible at the end of his career. Larry hit over .300 10 different years. Kemp averaged over 20 points 1 time in his career. Kemp was very flashy, but not much substance. Larry was all substance for a long. The flashy dunker for a short period of time doesn't age as well as a career .400 OBP which is amazing!
Alot of the players you mentioned have a stigma attached to them, or they played in smaller markets. Prospecting in basketball can be CRAZY and drive prices to astronomical levels with little to no performance, see Zion Ja. Baseball and Football has closed the gap in recent years with prospecting interest. I still say Basketball, Baseball, then Football in that order for second market prospecting prices. Although the gap has closed in the last 5-6 years.
Excellent video T Pott. Selfishly, I wish it came out a year later as I've been targeting the undervalued football players you mentioned and this may help their values to rise a bit.
Basketball and football in my opinion much more exciting fast paced sports and those sports attract fans that respond to that stimulus. Baseball is much slower paced and much more analytical. Stats create added drama and excitement that the sport itself lacks. It attracts a fan base that responds to that and I feel like these variations is reaction to stimulus is reflected in their sport card purchase habits. Excitement matters to football and basketball fans and the excitement around a certain player holds a much higher premium to them than baseball fans. Exciting players in baseball are met by fans that say well he doesn't have this record, this stat isn't in the top ten and those sorts of things. Established players and their accomplishments hold a higher premium.
Does market movers have/expose data about the total market cap per sport, maybe based on spending over a given time period? That may help differentiate whether these prices are due to a larger collector (or money) pool for baseball versus a difference in collecting behavior for the same pool size. I suspect that baseball has a larger collector pool and deeper collective pockets, which explains the data you presented.
I agree with where you're going, appreciate the Curtis Martins of the world, the Alex English types.
But speaking as a football/basketball investor, there is a reason we cling to the Jordans, lebrons, Payton's and Montana's
It's just like having stock Apple Google or Microsoft. It's a no brainier that's always in demand, easy to sell, and will always go up.
Not sure if Shawn Kemp was the best example to use considering he’s being charged with first-degree assault after being arrested in connection with a drive-by shooting, but I get what you’re going for.
I decided to collect baseball because when you rip product there is collectivity everywhere. Another reason Tpot doesn't touch on is the regionality of baseball. it means your team might not be great, but you'll find collectors of the best players on that team. That doesn't hold up in the other sports in my opinion.
I'll take TB12 over Manning any day!
Brady also took pay cuts because his wife made more than he did, and the team used that extra money to get better players and thus more titles.
I think the Football and Basketball have more casual collectors/investors that pump up the more hyped player. Baseball card collectors are usually diehard Baseball fans so they are more knowledgeable about who they are collecting.
You can also blame Jordan’s 6 rings for the modern day Goat debates you see on TV. Before Jordan, the debate about rings in sports wasn’t THE single issue like it is today. I firmly believe Lebron went to the Heat because he was worried his legacy was in trouble if he didn’t have multiple rings. Yet you look at Dr J (who played before Bird/Magic/Jordan) and was the most popular player in the NBA despite only winning 1 ring at the end of his career. Now with Brady having 7 rings, the NFL debates will be no different than NBA debates as Rodgers legacy will be hurt if he finishes with 1 Ring,
Baseball debates aren’t about rings because there are so many stats to debate. 500 Homeruns, 300 Wins, 3,000 hits are benchmarks that elevate a player’s legacy, not how many rings.
Great video. I agree with the sentiment, but I think it will be a long time before we hit that point. But I'm indirectly doing my part to help. I love a lot of those lower tier guys, and Im just not willing to sell their stuff at dirt cheap prices. Id rather hold onto a Russell Westbrook /25 2013 crusade than sell it for $20 because of comps.
Topps Tiffany was extremely limited and only came as a factory sealed set. No way you can compare Hoops to Topps Tiffany.
How much does Larry Walker's regular Topps go for in PSA 10 condition?
Way more accurate comparison
You're missing a big point on Brady vs. Manning. You said should we really hold bad defense against Manning. The answer is yes because of the Passing offense of Manning which extends games and shortens possessions, which kills your defense in the 2nd half. #DiveDeeper
I think Brady prices will continue to fall as collectors realize he doesn’t have the true collector base of a Jordan. Flippers will realize the downward trend is only gonna get worse his first few years out of league.
the Brady/Manning analysis doesn't understand the emotional sentiment that truly drives prices across the hobby. Brady was a part of many of the most iconic and dramatic games in the history of the sport and was the game's all time greatest over-achiever, while Manning consistently came up short. the same price disparity exists with Mantle and Jordan prices against their peers for the same reason.
Great video.
You can also make an argument about the Super Bowl being a bigger deal than the World Series. And that a QB will shine through a huge win more than a single baseball player. I can understand why people would equate some of that to their value.
Knowing the type of people (on average) that are fans of these sports, that result is really obvious. To favor the flash, to not be as logical. And I say that dispite personality being more of a basketball/football collector. And this audience watching you talk about data are definitely the more logical ones, so probably not many people listening to change haha
Again, really good. There are two problems in the collecting world that are unpassable. First, we do not collect like we did as children. When I got cards from the store in 1975 (or so, yes, I am old), I was hoping to pull Bradshaw, Staubach, and Tarkenton. Somehow, rookie cards became more valuable than cards of the best athletes immediately after their best seasons. It is dumb when you think about it, it is just so. Second, the great athletes of the early 1990s were a part of the 'junk wax' era. True rookies of greats such as Ken Griffey Jr., Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders (really any athlete from the 4 major sports) could be had for a song! Sure, we can have auto and relic cards, but that is far different than the original such as a 1952 Mantle or even a 1963 Pete Rose, etcetera. IO wish the hobby put a premium on the best players after their best seasons. It is too late now.
The thing you're missing in the Brady vs Manning debate is yes Brady had great defences, but his ability to play his best in the ultimate situation is what separated him from everyone. Manning was meh at best in the Superbowls, while Brady's stats are better in the Superbowls than his regular season games.
definitely agree. this is like a Manning apologist video for him consistently chocking in the playoffs. i'm not buying it.
Having great defenses lifts a lot of pressure off of quarterbacks. The Bears went to a SB with Rex Grossman as their QB. The Jets with Mark Sanchez played in an AFC Championship. And Trent Dilfer had the Ravens 2000 defense. Peyton Manning's best defense, was arguably in his Denver Broncos seasons. This was after coming back from his neck fusion surgery, too.
I can understand those that have, Tom Brady as their GOAT. But Peyton Manning is on the Mount Rushmore of QB's imo.
@@ACD1994 No doubt about that.
Should I get all my Jordan's graded?
Not sure it’s fair to compare 1990 Hoops + Topps Tiffany. The more apples-2-apples comparison would be to just use the regular Topps Larry Walker.
Manning is not better than Brady 😂. Brady literally played the first half of his career with no true receiving threats. The Colts literally surrounded Manning with top tier weapons.
Great point on brady. Btw his later SB was due to more shady activities
Baseball is all about individuals stats most of the game. Little team work except on the field. Other sports requires whole team to perform no win. Whole different ball game.
I collect hofers/ goats in football and basketball.
You should probably get with the times and go to baseball
@@stevendollahite476 lol yeah no. 😆
Baseball cards are the only ones to collect
Hockey collectors are even better. You'll never get a mass produced paper base rookie selling for $100-$500 raw ever like hockey.
That's why junk yg still selling high post covid boom and everything else has died.
Sorry! Tom Brady was more CLUTCH than Peyton, and his first start was a win over Peyton!
I think about the Brady/Manning prices a lot since I am primarily a football collector. It makes me want to collect Manning, but what would ever happen to make his prices go up? Everything you highlight makes me nervous about prospecting on football cards. I wish I was into baseball but I’m just not.
Educational videos like this from respected people in the hobby have the potential to influence who people collect. I'm sure this video opened some eyes.
@@bam92027 that’s a good point that I never considered. Thanks!
Great job! Love this!!! True! Jesus bless!
While I agree hall of fame players should carry a premium, you can’t discount winning championships, and multiples. There’s a lot of basketball players with Hobby love, and no rings, Allen IVerson, Vince Carter, Derick Rose, Reggie Miller, T-Mac. Shawn Kemp’s not really a fair comparison, although I do think someone like Gary Payton is massively under valued.
T-pot, out of curiosity do you guys plan on ever adding popular non licensed cards for popular players in Market Movers?
I hope not
Brady always took less money. Manning was always the highest paid. That might explain the colts lack of defense.
Also Brady and Mahomes each owe a Super Bowl to Kyle shanahan chock jobs.
Great video. Until a few weeks ago I had never heard of John Havlicek. He is a hall of famer, has 8 championships including one finals MVP, he is a 13 time all star, and is still the Celtics all time leader for points, among other things. His rookie card can be had in a decent mid grade for a few hundred dollars or less. From a collector standpoint I think this is a good thing. Not that I’m comparing Havlicek to Michael Jordan but a Michael Jordan rookie even in very low grade is very expensive. This goes along with what you said about basketball being top heavy.
manning and moss cards sell for way to low
Great breakdown Tpott! Not crazy talk! I collect who I like and sell the PSA 10’s!
You're throwing in junk era card guys and comparing them to a tiffany card. That's not a fair comparison. Kemp isn't even a HOFer and will never be one. I get the overall message but the facts and data are just skewed.
Agree Peyton Manning is very cheap in comparison to Brady. PM 5 MVP's & Brady 3. In baseball this makes a difference. But cool makes difference to however you perceive that. Yogi Berra had 3 MVP's, 2 second places years and a 3rd and 4th over a 7 year period when Yankees won a bunch of Worls Series. Mantle had 3 MVP's and (3) 2nd and a 3rd in MVP and the cards are not even comparable in price but both had 3 MVP's. Sometimes the cool factor just dominates. Ken Griffey Jr was great over a 7 year period but lifetime batting average is 284. After age 32 he was not really a significant player. Mike Trout is 31 and getting injured all the time now. Mike Trout fans better take notice. His stats are not trending up.
I hear PPP loans are the best things that you have collected.
Dumb take. Don’t buy Shawn Kemp and Payton Manning cant sniff Brady’s jock strap. Stick with Brady, stick with Jordan.
Just gonna disrespect hockey collectors and not even mention them? lame.
No disrespect intended. There are a lot of sports, even beyond hockey...soccer fans could say the same. MMA. Golf. Tennis. Badminton...
I just have to keep to what I know and try to not make hour videos haha
First hi T Pot
So you honestly don't understand why there's a huge price disparity over the number 1 draft pick who has hundreds of rookie cards vs the second the last pick in the draft who nobody had heard? It's called Scarcity my guy. Honus Wagner wasn't the best player in the 1910 T206 set either. Supply and demand
Umm there were experts at the time that considered Wagner the best player he was the best player in the national league. Don’t get me wrong I feel
Cobb was better but it’s not as clear cut as you state. It just isn’t. Wagner was an og hall of fame inductee for a reason and it wasn’t his t206 card.
@@glyn420 Tyler Cobb was definitely the better player. But for the sake of the argument let's reference Eddie Plank instead. No where near as good as Cobb or Wagner but his card is 10 times more valuable than Cobb. Why? Scarcity. That's my point
Most of the comparison is with older sets that don't have 100 parallels....... so not sure what you are trying to say.
It's not like he's comparing Honus to Wander Franco and his 5387 different cards.
@@jaridgibbs5422 plank To is a hall
Of famer and should have value based on that and of course scarcity matters but there are thousands of cards far scarcer than either Wagner or plank that don’t have the value they do. The answer to price is always supply and demand but demand is heavily influenced by a players abilities. A better example of you want to make this argument in the future. Use joe Doyle o magie error cards in t206 both rather valuable and both feature good but not all time great players. But there are prewar sets where everycard is scarcer than a Wagner but they don’t have near the value of a t206 Wagner or plank or magie or Doyle. It’s not just supply but supply and demand.
This is a specious argument the graded populations are pretty comparable between the manning topps chrome and Brady refractor. The Pop difference doesn’t explain a 300k difference.
I like Trout and respect his production and abilities but he is one of the most over-valued player in recent card history. He always seems to disappear when it matters most and I am unable to recall him coming up with a 'clutch moment'. Ever.