Hi Emanuel, my pleasure. I've always liked the Panerai design, but I've never really trusted them after the PAM 318 scandal. Let's hope these new movements will be a road to integrity. Kindest regards Bill
Bill, I really liked your video. I own a Pam with the P3000 movement and I love the watch. It's reminiscent of the vintage Panerai's 1950s. I actually am a fan of the P3000. Winding the movement is a surreal experience. The way the tension building up in the winding wheel as u spin it is "butter smooth". They've really put a gem of a movement in my watch. Love every bit of it! You really have to own one to see the timelessness of the Pam. Thank u for a good video.
Great video Bill. I’ve never been a big fan of Panerai, but I am slowly starting to appreciate them more and more. Looking forward to part 2 on Sunday. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Hi Bruce, thanks man! I'm like you about Panerai...never a fan. I liked their design, but never trusted them because of their caliber-naming practices. However, with the new movements ... starting to reconsider them. Kindest regards, Bill
Thanks Decon! After you see Part 2, let me know which one you'd like to have. For some reason, I like their models with the California dial ... I have no idea why ...because I like their regular fonts and designs as well.! Cheers, Bill
Awesome vid Bill. I've had good experiences with the in house pam movements. Can't wait for your review of their automatics, especially the newer OPxxxiv Val Flurier workhorse in the Due and 42mm submersibles. From the looks of it they have just recently renamed it to the P900 to make it look like it is in-house...
Hi Apathy Boy, the ValFleurier movement that's reviewed in Part 2 is neither an OPxxx nor a P.9000, it's another one. Which one with an OP designation was developed by ValFleurier? (I may have missed something!) Kindest regards, Bill
@@watchartsci apologies Bill, I should of been clearer. I believe the new P900 watchbase.com/panerai/caliber/p-900 is meant to just be a rebadge of the VF made OPxxxiv, which in turn I believe is a rebadge of the Baume and Mercer Baumatic.
Thanks man for that follow up! More detective work for collectors! I knew that Baume & Mercier's Baumatic was by ValFleurier and suspected it might land in any of the Richemont-owned watches. Let's see it that's in the p.9000 or newer P. 9010. Cheers, Bill
The older Panerai’s with 3rd party movements embodies the history of the brand. At first they used Rolex movements and those movements are best reflected by the 6497-2
Major props for the in-house movements, a grade F for marketing. Too many special editions and too high on prices. They need to be more creative. Limited productions for a limited audience. You purchase a watch and get to go on an excursion? 🤣 Thanx Bill! 👍
Hi Bubba, you hit on a major peeve of mine-"Limited editions" for marketing purposes. A lot of the craftsman-made watches, like those from Habring2, are limited because a craftsman can only create so many units due to the time it takes to craft a watch. Other 'market' limited editions are like you say, 'just to jack up the price'. I also think they're used as 'test-balloons'- make a few of a certain design and if the watch-buyers likes them, they'll be called 'heritage models' and shipped with the same features. Our lot is to separate the hyperbole from the reality-we certainly cannot rely on watch companies for that. Take care, Bill
Love my Pam268. The Panerai PAM 268 was the third Radiomir to be fitted with an-house movement. It features a stainless steel case of 45mm and is powered by caliber P.2002/3. Produced: 2007 - 2009 Hand-wound mechanical, executed entirely by Panerai, 13¾ lignes, 6,6 mm thick, 21 jewels, Glucydur® balance, 28.800 alternations/hour. KIF Parechoc® anti-shock device. Power reserve 8 days with linear power reserve indicator, three barrels, date. 225 components.
Hey John Doe, sound like you're a happy and knowledgeable customer. Tell me, what do you think of this deal? Thanks Bill www.swisswatchexpo.com/watches/panerai/radiomir-california-47mm-3-days-power-reserve-pam00424-20881?gclid=Cj0KCQiAw4jvBRCJARIsAHYewPMzuDhnlKEcXjCuQr6-aVOzvJnI6J3otoJ-JBX-6Zmq3ThF11AVUK0aAsYuEALw_wcB
@@watchartsci I'm not a Paneristi...just a bargain hunter. That's a pretty good price, for new, at $5,290. I do like the California dials. Jomashop is at $4,845 (second hand).
I bought an ETA movement with Tudor Black Bay and it keeps better time than my Grand Seiko and both my Rolex OP and Explorer. Easy to service locally. Cheers
Hi John, I have found ETA movements to be excellent and you can save a lot of money on watches and service-I have no problem doing minor regulator adjustments on ETA-based watches either-especially the 6497/8 Unitas models. You can even do lube service with the information provided at ETA.ch -The Tudor Black Bay case is a classic! Kindest regards, Bill
I had great expectations when Panerai announced they will start making own movements. Unfortunately, in the last few years everything except California dial on Radiomir was a big disappointment. Sure, I will always admire L'Astronomo, but is it really a Panerai? As an owner of a pre-Vendome Luminor I can say that Panerai lost a lot of it's identity trying to appeal to broader public(Luminor Due-making Panerai a dress watch!?) Back in 2001 to 2010 they were making nice modifications/decorations on ETA 6497, in comparison, their own movements, however, seem to be ashamed of Panerai name.
Panerai made the same mistake that companies like(e.g., IWC, Breitling) made ... they wanted the high profits by using cheap movements ... they were good cheap movements ... but they need together back to some element of focus of real quality; not the hyperbole of quality. Take care, Bill
Great topic Bill, I think Panerai are trying their best to restart their previous glory. I was actually thinking about getting myself a Panerai in 2020, but I wanted to get as a tool watch, so for me the ETA movement with the 300m WR would be the best combination as it will be cheaper to service and will do the tool job well with a discounted price compared to the inhouse ones. What do you think about the Panerai prices currently have they hit their low, I saw several PAMs selling around the 3-4K range with box and papers.
Hi Abdul, I've never had anything against ETA movements nor having them in Panerai watches ... it's just the deception I don't like. I have a feeling that you can get some great deals on a Panerai with an ETA movement-I might even look into a Unitas/ETA 6497/8 version or one of the new P. 3000 models with a California dial-what do you think of this deal? (www.swisswatchexpo.com/watches/panerai/radiomir-california-47mm-3-days-power-reserve-pam00424-20881?gclid=Cj0KCQiAw4jvBRCJARIsAHYewPMzuDhnlKEcXjCuQr6-aVOzvJnI6J3otoJ-JBX-6Zmq3ThF11AVUK0aAsYuEALw_wcB ) Thanks, Bill
@@watchartsci Yes, I think so as well, for the ETA and Unitas models there will be great deals. That offer is not bad at all, I really like that watch, only thing is that 47mm diameter is too big for my wrist. I like the 44mm Luminor with the crown closing system.
what are your thoughts on the current scandel with panerai? apparently none of their movements were ever technically built in house. and their current new P. movement is definately an ETA movement..on a near $30k watch.. and they lied and said it was "in house"... thoughts..?
Hi Vinny, the new P.6000 is not an ETA 6497-2 nor an exact copy. The movement was developed in Buttes, Switzerland at the Richemont movement workshops called "ValFleurier." The 6497 is the base concept, but the basic version has no small seconds at 9 o'clock, and the main features of the P.6000 is the size to the 6497 so that it fits a lot of the cases Panerai has used in the past for the 6497. Nomos has the same relationship with their Alpha movement to the ETA 7001. However, while I'm a fan of the Paerai design, I haven't trusted them for years beginning with the PAM 318 scandal. Take care, Bill
Hey Jay Dee, do you mean anything made by the Richemont-owned ValFleurier or any watch company owned by Richemont? My Vacheron Constantin Historiques American 1921 runs on a VC 4400, which is both accurate and reliable ... but I'm not sure about the ValFlurier movements yet. Thanks Bill
Panerai hasn't been getting the love they use to . They we're a really big deal 5 years ago which is a real shame because they make a quality product on the other hand you can find some good deals on some if your paying attention.
Hi Mark, I think some of their business practices may have pulled them down. So many of their OP calibers were ETA/Sellita, that they lost a lot of horological credibility-the PAM 318 being a clincher. So yes, you can find some great deals, but you have to know what is ticking inside. Kindest regards, Bill
Hi Leya, I did not know that they've been having a problems. In the past, they had problems with cheap unfinished movements going into expensive watches (xtrememeantime.forumotion.com/t8207-panerai-movement-scandal) but I did not know about failure rates of the new movements. I'll check it out. Kindest regards, Bill
Yes CQC223... a little more complex than a 'LOL' ... check this out: perezcope.com/2021/08/08/panerai-in-house-movements-a-pam-of-worms/ Take care, Bill
Hi Bill thanks for your video. I’m glad for the direction Panerai is going to.
Hi Emanuel, my pleasure. I've always liked the Panerai design, but I've never really trusted them after the PAM 318 scandal. Let's hope these new movements will be a road to integrity. Kindest regards Bill
I'm up so late and I still enjoy your videos Bill keep them coming
Hey Richard, wow! you were up late! Glad to hear you liked it. Kindest regards, Bill
Bill, I really liked your video. I own a Pam with the P3000 movement and I love the watch. It's reminiscent of the vintage Panerai's 1950s. I actually am a fan of the P3000. Winding the movement is a surreal experience. The way the tension building up in the winding wheel as u spin it is "butter smooth". They've really put a gem of a movement in my watch. Love every bit of it! You really have to own one to see the timelessness of the Pam. Thank u for a good video.
Hi Erajat! That is very good to hear ... you sound like a man who both understands and appreciates fine watchmaking! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Great video Bill. I’ve never been a big fan of Panerai, but I am slowly starting to appreciate them more and more. Looking forward to part 2 on Sunday. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Hi Bruce, thanks man! I'm like you about Panerai...never a fan. I liked their design, but never trusted them because of their caliber-naming practices. However, with the new movements ... starting to reconsider them. Kindest regards, Bill
Great video Bill.I want a Panerii.Very cool watches.Cheers
Thanks Decon! After you see Part 2, let me know which one you'd like to have. For some reason, I like their models with the California dial ... I have no idea why ...because I like their regular fonts and designs as well.! Cheers, Bill
Awesome vid Bill. I've had good experiences with the in house pam movements. Can't wait for your review of their automatics, especially the newer OPxxxiv Val Flurier workhorse in the Due and 42mm submersibles. From the looks of it they have just recently renamed it to the P900 to make it look like it is in-house...
Hi Apathy Boy, the ValFleurier movement that's reviewed in Part 2 is neither an OPxxx nor a P.9000, it's another one. Which one with an OP designation was developed by ValFleurier? (I may have missed something!) Kindest regards, Bill
@@watchartsci apologies Bill, I should of been clearer. I believe the new P900 watchbase.com/panerai/caliber/p-900 is meant to just be a rebadge of the VF made OPxxxiv, which in turn I believe is a rebadge of the Baume and Mercer Baumatic.
Thanks man for that follow up! More detective work for collectors! I knew that Baume & Mercier's Baumatic was by ValFleurier and suspected it might land in any of the Richemont-owned watches. Let's see it that's in the p.9000 or newer P. 9010. Cheers, Bill
The older Panerai’s with 3rd party movements embodies the history of the brand. At first they used Rolex movements and those movements are best reflected by the 6497-2
Spiro, they were using pocket watch movements? That's very interesting. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Very striking new movement.
Hi VisibleMode! After Part 2, let me know which you like the best! Cheers, Bill
Hi Bill, Great talk, I have to say that the paneri hand wounds are a bit faster than real time, It maybe my experience but very hard to get it fixed
Hi Reza, yes, I've heard they run a tad faster, but I' not sure why. Anyone try adjusting the regulator? Cheers, Bill
Major props for the in-house movements, a grade F for marketing. Too many special editions and too high on prices. They need to be more creative. Limited productions for a limited audience. You purchase a watch and get to go on an excursion? 🤣 Thanx Bill! 👍
Hi Bubba, you hit on a major peeve of mine-"Limited editions" for marketing purposes. A lot of the craftsman-made watches, like those from Habring2, are limited because a craftsman can only create so many units due to the time it takes to craft a watch. Other 'market' limited editions are like you say, 'just to jack up the price'. I also think they're used as 'test-balloons'- make a few of a certain design and if the watch-buyers likes them, they'll be called 'heritage models' and shipped with the same features. Our lot is to separate the hyperbole from the reality-we certainly cannot rely on watch companies for that. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci nicely put Bill. I agree 100% 👍👍👍
Love my Pam268. The Panerai PAM 268 was the third Radiomir to be fitted with an-house movement. It features a stainless steel case of 45mm and is powered by caliber P.2002/3.
Produced: 2007 - 2009
Hand-wound mechanical, executed entirely by Panerai, 13¾ lignes, 6,6 mm thick, 21 jewels, Glucydur® balance, 28.800 alternations/hour. KIF Parechoc® anti-shock device. Power reserve 8 days with linear power reserve indicator, three barrels, date. 225 components.
Hey John Doe, sound like you're a happy and knowledgeable customer. Tell me, what do you think of this deal? Thanks Bill www.swisswatchexpo.com/watches/panerai/radiomir-california-47mm-3-days-power-reserve-pam00424-20881?gclid=Cj0KCQiAw4jvBRCJARIsAHYewPMzuDhnlKEcXjCuQr6-aVOzvJnI6J3otoJ-JBX-6Zmq3ThF11AVUK0aAsYuEALw_wcB
@@watchartsci I'm not a Paneristi...just a bargain hunter. That's a pretty good price, for new, at $5,290. I do like the California dials. Jomashop is at $4,845 (second hand).
I bought an ETA movement with Tudor Black Bay and it keeps better time than my Grand Seiko and both my Rolex OP and Explorer. Easy to service locally. Cheers
Hi John, I have found ETA movements to be excellent and you can save a lot of money on watches and service-I have no problem doing minor regulator adjustments on ETA-based watches either-especially the 6497/8 Unitas models. You can even do lube service with the information provided at ETA.ch -The Tudor Black Bay case is a classic! Kindest regards, Bill
I had great expectations when Panerai announced they will start making own movements. Unfortunately, in the last few years everything except California dial on Radiomir was a big disappointment. Sure, I will always admire L'Astronomo, but is it really a Panerai? As an owner of a pre-Vendome Luminor I can say that Panerai lost a lot of it's identity trying to appeal to broader public(Luminor Due-making Panerai a dress watch!?) Back in 2001 to 2010 they were making nice modifications/decorations on ETA 6497, in comparison, their own movements, however, seem to be ashamed of Panerai name.
Panerai made the same mistake that companies like(e.g., IWC, Breitling) made ... they wanted the high profits by using cheap movements ... they were good cheap movements ... but they need together back to some element of focus of real quality; not the hyperbole of quality. Take care, Bill
Great topic Bill, I think Panerai are trying their best to restart their previous glory.
I was actually thinking about getting myself a Panerai in 2020, but I wanted to get as a tool watch, so for me the ETA movement with the 300m WR would be the best combination as it will be cheaper to service and will do the tool job well with a discounted price compared to the inhouse ones.
What do you think about the Panerai prices currently have they hit their low, I saw several PAMs selling around the 3-4K range with box and papers.
Hi Abdul, I've never had anything against ETA movements nor having them in Panerai watches ... it's just the deception I don't like. I have a feeling that you can get some great deals on a Panerai with an ETA movement-I might even look into a Unitas/ETA 6497/8 version or one of the new P. 3000 models with a California dial-what do you think of this deal? (www.swisswatchexpo.com/watches/panerai/radiomir-california-47mm-3-days-power-reserve-pam00424-20881?gclid=Cj0KCQiAw4jvBRCJARIsAHYewPMzuDhnlKEcXjCuQr6-aVOzvJnI6J3otoJ-JBX-6Zmq3ThF11AVUK0aAsYuEALw_wcB ) Thanks, Bill
@@watchartsci Yes, I think so as well, for the ETA and Unitas models there will be great deals.
That offer is not bad at all, I really like that watch, only thing is that 47mm diameter is too big for my wrist. I like the 44mm Luminor with the crown closing system.
what are your thoughts on the current scandel with panerai? apparently none of their movements were ever technically built in house. and their current new P. movement is definately an ETA movement..on a near $30k watch.. and they lied and said it was "in house"... thoughts..?
Hi Vinny, the new P.6000 is not an ETA 6497-2 nor an exact copy. The movement was developed in Buttes, Switzerland at the Richemont movement workshops called "ValFleurier." The 6497 is the base concept, but the basic version has no small seconds at 9 o'clock, and the main features of the P.6000 is the size to the 6497 so that it fits a lot of the cases Panerai has used in the past for the 6497. Nomos has the same relationship with their Alpha movement to the ETA 7001. However, while I'm a fan of the Paerai design, I haven't trusted them for years beginning with the PAM 318 scandal. Take care, Bill
The problem is Richemont. I would not touch anything by Richemont.
Hey Jay Dee, do you mean anything made by the Richemont-owned ValFleurier or any watch company owned by Richemont? My Vacheron Constantin Historiques American 1921 runs on a VC 4400, which is both accurate and reliable ... but I'm not sure about the ValFlurier movements yet. Thanks Bill
Panerai hasn't been getting the love they use to . They we're a really big deal 5 years ago which is a real shame because they make a quality product on the other hand you can find some good deals on some if your paying attention.
Hi Mark, I think some of their business practices may have pulled them down. So many of their OP calibers were ETA/Sellita, that they lost a lot of horological credibility-the PAM 318 being a clincher. So yes, you can find some great deals, but you have to know what is ticking inside. Kindest regards, Bill
Happy to see their development, however the failure rate of these new movements seem too high...
Hi Leya, I did not know that they've been having a problems. In the past, they had problems with cheap unfinished movements going into expensive watches (xtrememeantime.forumotion.com/t8207-panerai-movement-scandal) but I did not know about failure rates of the new movements. I'll check it out. Kindest regards, Bill
@@watchartsci From what I've heard, some failed to zero reset, some had large time deviation.
Leya Y Is there some published link to that information? I’d like to learn more... Thanks Bill
@@watchartsci Sorry but I didn't collect them...
Still made by somebody else LOL…..
Yes CQC223... a little more complex than a 'LOL' ... check this out: perezcope.com/2021/08/08/panerai-in-house-movements-a-pam-of-worms/
Take care, Bill