Cheap Lazy Vegan I love you but please dont talk like a welfarist. Veganism is the stance that other animals should NOT be used and killed and that they should be extended basic rights that are given to humans. Please watch Gary Francione’s speech about abolitionism!🙏 it is SO important!
@MercyForTheInnocent I didn't think she sounded like a welfarist. I think she's trying her best to stand up for Animals without getting harassed by meat eating youtubers. Simple youtubers like @sloan @letsgetintoitpodcast and many others need to be approached, not our fellow vegans. Nonetheless, thank you for standing up for the animals!
To say that veganism is a white privilege thing or that it's racist is to ignore all of the hard work that people of color have done in this field. Richard Carroll, F. Rivers Barnwell, and William Key (all people of color) laid a foundational bedrock for animal welfare advocacy. There are millions of people of color who have fought for animal rights. The black veganism movement has roots in the American Civil Rights movement. Dick Gregory, who marched with Martin Luther King, Jr., argued that "Because I'm a civil rights activist, I am also an animal rights activist. Animals and humans suffer and die alike." Rastafari developed a plant-based diet known as Ital in Jamaica in the 1930s. Groups like the African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem advocated strict veganism since the 1960s. The Nation of Islam specifically connected choosing a plant-based diet to fighting racist oppression. Many Buddhists have been vegan for thousands of years, advocating for a lifestyle of non-violence.
Also, aside from all those important people and movements you mentioned, let us not forget the amazing contributions many African American vegans have made to vegan soul food 🤤🙏👌
Oh god, more "white privilege" card again? It seems everytime somebody wants to make positive progress, there's always this pushback calling out White Privilege. Ok ... I feel that's a convenient scapegoat for people who just wanna oppose or hate on something because it grains against THEIR status quo. Like ... I'm nonwhite, and a vegetarian borderline vegan ... but I WELCOME "white privilege" if it means privileged people are leveraging their good positions in life to activate their conscience and just *choose better.* I see nothing wrong or criticism worthy in that. If it bothers people so much, they should at least understand and acknowledge that somebody at least gave a care and did something for the better. It's too bad to have to confront that whole accusation from anybody - but you're right - progressive movements cut across racial lines, it's a HUMAN thing.
Yeah, Korean Buddhists are vegan, as well as many Indian Jains/Hindus/Buddhists. All the hate against vegans lately is sad. 😞 Part of it seems like they're bullying what they believe is an easy target, because they think vegans: 1. aren't a category protected by anti-discrimination policies -- but some people are vegan based on religion or nationality, which are protected categories 2. are a small minority who either won't be part of their audience or won't be able to defend themselves -- but vegans are a growing population who should stand together to counter hate For example, there are anti-vegan messages in these recent videos: *LET'S TALK: Peta, Vegans, Food Wasters?* [KOREAN COWBOYS channel] 13:05 "it's scientifically proven humans are supposed to consume meat" *Brits try the Best Pizzas in New York!* [creators of Korean Englishman channel] 4:07 "who cares about vegans?" To avoid rewarding them views, you can use "Show Transcript" in description to read what's said.
I think people only get so butthurt about vegans being “holier than thou” because deep down they feel insecure about the fact that they are unnecessarily hurting animals when they know it’s wrong. So their guilt tells them that vegans are just holier than thou.
I honestly think defensive anti veganism is far more loud, obnoxious, militant, aggressive unreasonable. I've also met mostly respectful and curious non vegans, and most vegans are just doing their thing going ... in fact going out of our way to accommodate and make things easier when sharing meals. Recently a man who looked like a pretty much pickled alcoholic buying a pint of hard liquor, bought my bananas just for the sake of it because I was in the queue with something healthy he said.
@@janefreeman995they shouldn't go out of their way to "accommodate" it's not the same as a non-vegan trying to "accommodate" vegans and tbh i don't think vegans should have nonavegan friends it's just not worth it imo
@roku3216 same I've had friends and family go vegan simply by being non judgemental and providing and being happy with side dishes. Twice I've had friends and family make entirely vegan meals on my behalf, even Thanksgiving and I totally didn't expect it. It also helps that I hiked the pacific crest trail at 62 and don't have the laundry list of health issues like many in my age group.
@@janefreeman995 yeah, those that have done it around me did it for a combination of health and ethical reasons, but staying present definitely helped them see that I have a good time, delicious food, and can live in alignment with my ethics comfortably. I'm healthier now than before the transition 9 years ago, and am coming up 62 this fall :)
I’ve never understood why people get so upset with vegans because we care about all animals. A cow has emotions and feelings just like a dog. All animals deserve to live, what makes us better?Nothing does. We’ve been conditioned to believe the opposite
Because it means they're doing something bad. Eating meat is part of what they think is normal. If they accept that is not ok then it means they have to change part of their identities. People prefer to think vegans are annoying and crazy, it's much easier than facing they are doing something horrible
It is not your personal ideas that is the problem, it is the harm being done under the name of "veganism"... proper context matters! this current movement was created specifically because the indigenous Peoples were gaining support by regular people on social media... they were being openly supported which terrified those who are here to rob, murder and destroy for profit... Now you connect the dots yourself, if you dare...
It's because they're uncomfortable with confronting the truth of the consequences of their actions. Nobody wants to be called out or held accountable. Unfortunately that's human nature. That's why we need to consistently show up. People will change when they're ready not a moment before. We just need to be there when they are
I am vegan I'm not preachy about it to people.. and I believe most people have a problem vegans because most vegans are preachy and kind of b***** about things.. and they try to make other people feel like they need to do this too..
Indigenous person here, I was literally at a large ceremony recently and we where talking about how being indigenous means living along side the earth and doing what it takes to do that and how hunting/finishing agriculture aren’t sustainable till the word is healed enough and those animals repopulated. Also that can’t happen while factory farming is and how people over consuming that includes non indigenous people making art with severely underpopulated animal hides actually harms communities of color because it often results in deforestation to create more grazing land for deer so more hunting licenses can be sold. Also comercial deer leather comes from farms🤦🏽♀️
I’m starting to suspect that eating animal products interferes with people’s ability to practice critical thinking in a logical and rational way. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm wondering if it's a spiritual soul tie or demon or something. Like eating flesh puts a veil over our mind's eye. I thought Creator told me to not eat flesh but I didn't understand it. I stepped out in faith. No harm in doing no harm. Haha I thought I saw Jesus serve people fish BUT the book of Jeremiah says there are lying scribes. There are other texts that suggest Jesus was also vegan and the canon was adultered. Ask Creator yourselves, of course. Don't trust randos, like me on the internet. Ask Creator and reflect inward.
Well, that will always be human nature to exclaim "you're just acting holier than thou." My sole reaction and response at this moment to such people is, "I can't help you with that." There's not much anybody can do about somebody electing a nonviolent way of life and somebody reacting in this manner just because they disagree. Kind of ... defies logic. Oh well. lol.
I am a black vegan low income and people will tell me it is white washed and expensive and somehow they say those things to me and im the only vegan they know irl?? Like they be saying anything 😭😭
Super impressive that you're sticking to your principles in that environment. The social aspect is pretty rough for most people, but I at least know some vegans in my area which is helpful to stay sane dealing with the absurd behavior of people when I simply just eat something without any "protein" as a man.
I also hate this tiktok because there's LOTS of indigenous vegans talking about all of this, but people like that person prefer to strawman an entire social justice movement instead of acknowledging the fact that lots of marginalized people are politically active and disagree with them.
"marginalized" is the wrong word to use!! were those in the death camps in WWII "marginalized" no they were experiencing genocid@!! as are the Peoples of this half of the world...
I don’t think that young lady understands the meaning of the word racist. I’ve been vegan for several years. Veganism is not new. It was the original diet in the Bible. Just a reference… I’ve also been a liberal or libtard all my adult life. I’ve hated furs since I was a child in the 50s and 60s. An animal lover for over 70 years and I love these new vegans standing up for our fellow earthlings!
context is important... "veganism" as a recent movement started just when the indigenous Peoples of this half of the world were gaining much support from regular people who began listening to them and learning true history and events... veganism was coined to hate on them and their way of life... to purposefully harm the indigenous.... that is reality... I am not saying actual vegans did this, I am saying this movement was created specifically to harm the indigenous much like the #blm movement was created to drown out indigenous voices and the genocid@l ones could pretend they are not evil war crims... I am not saying Africans planned it just as I am not saying vegans planned this current movement... allowing them to hide behind you is you supporting them, there is no grey area... you must call them out... understanding the context is important and must not be overlooked because it sheds light on your own actions and involvement in the ongoing genoc!de of this whole half of the world...
People usually say vegans are judgemental but when I was vegan for 3 years I never told people I was vegan unless it came up in a conversation. I would simply say o yeah I don’t eat animal products, and when I would simply say that people suddenly became health experts and would criticize, make fun of me. I literally wouldn’t say anything. And sometimes I wouldn’t even bring it up , but other people would and then came the projections 🙄🙄🙄 it was crazy
Yes, people get used to the fact that you are a weirdo I leave them at that, never preach, as there is no hope. One way or another, those around me convince themselves that meat& dairy industry is fine, the rightful legacy of humankind. OK then😁
I went through that in the 2000s, too, but luckily as time progressed, even those reactions seemed to become less. I feel the vegetarian, vegan, and plant-based movement is growing worldwide.
I don't even bring it up when ordering food, my father does and I have to specifically tell him not to because where we live lot of people still don't even know what vegan is, so I prefer to ask "is there dairy? eggs?" instead of asking "is it vegan?"
The tiktok girl already voided her own argument by mentioning environmentalism and using cow leather. Raising cows (& taking their skin for leather) is the worst in terms of environmentalism. She is just defensive because she feels inconvenienced and doesn’t want to put in the effort to improve her ways.
Very informative! Thx! I was transitioning to vegetarianism in Berkeley in the early ‘70’s and I remember my first encounter with a vegan. I was enthralled to see they were vegan down to their toes! They wore cloth shoes. The vegans I met did not go to the movies because in those days movie film contained gelatin. I also met a few amazing fruitarians and still wonder how they are doing💕
It might be arguable that the plastic is still more environmentally friendly than animal leather based on emissions. Using an indigenous culture as an excuse to harm animals is just an appeal to tradition fallacy.
"indigenous culture" does not harm animals, nor plants, for that matter... thinking otherwise is ingrained genoc!dal propaganda that must be acknowledged...
That’s when you lose sane rational people. Plastic is not environmentally friendly. The air you’re breathing in contains plastic. There’s plastic now in the human heart. Wake up. Your so focused on saving animals when this planet and all the animals are going to be dead because this planet is inhabitable
Yeah, it certainly isn't straightforward. Sure indigenous culture was sustainable and there are practices we can learn from, but not sure if everything they did, if scaled up to a population of billions, would be sustainable. Hunting certainly wouldn't be sustainable if everyone was doing that.
@@Cancellator5000 but isnt the point of the indigenous world view that they would never overpopulate????!!! To treat live decently and live lightly upon Nature??
@@SeareanMoon Do you think this person is advocating for population control? The fact is plant based options are going to be more sustainable, so while yes technically indigenous cultures were more sustainable than modern day society, they weren't necessarily optimally sustainable per capita. Humans have been wiping out species since our early history when we were all hunter gatherers and living like indigenous people.
@@yaash4123 Humans are designed to eat meat, we have a single stomach of Simple design with strong stomach acid like all carnivores and meat heavy omnivores. We are physically incapable of properly digesting most plants, and only thanks to our linger intestines can we even absorb any nutritional value from it. We evolved to eat mostly meat and animal products. Fish, fats, organs, etc. The ratio is around 90-95% animal products and 5-10% easy to digest plants like berries and fruits, soft veggies. We pass most of it out without breaking it down because we lack thr advanced stomachs that cows and other herbivores or plant heavy omnivores have. Facts are facts.
What also blew my mind when they did this video is that people might've been asking for vegan leather because they wanted to support their business, but instead they got this rant.
Wish people made a bigger deal of this: Animals require a lot of crops to be grown for their consumption. Indigenous tribes are displaced to make way for said crops in places like Brazil. That animal feed is then shipped to countries like the UK and US. So, eating animal products in western countries can literally help displace indigenous tribes. By eating animal products, you're not 'supporting' indigenous tribes, you're harming them.
Rose! Thank you for this! I’ve been vegan for 30 years now, and have heard all this BS from others from day 1. You’re 100% right! I hope non-vegans see this video. Thanks! 💚💚💚 Joe
Not this woman freaking out and making a whole tt rant just because some people asked her if she works with vegan leather :)) Who ironically probably did it because they do want to support small creators. Are there racist vegans? I'm sure there are, as in the non vegan population. That doesn't link veganism with racism the same way not all non vegan people are racist. Whenever someone approaches any vegan discussion with whataboutism I just roll my eyes back to my brain. I don't know how Ed does it, i could not argue with all this non sense.
@@biancat.1873 Yes.. animal farming is a part of being civilized.. the natives were savage and hunted instead, they were primitive and that's why they got crushed. The strong survive and the weak.. wel..
@@fustercluck2460 lol society provides a social safety net for the "weak", plenty of bloodlines still going that would have been stamped out without it.Also what is more civilized about factory farming?
Right now there is leather made with avocado skins and it looks and last just like leather. That is another factor. As long as we keep using real leather, we are not going to find or do better alternatives because there will be no demand.
When I was a vegetarian I often found that people would expect me to be ethical in EVERY SINGLE FIGHT since I was trying to be more ethical for animals... and they would use those examples as an argument against my vegetarianism. Like... my vegetarianism was stupid if I'm still doing "this" "this" and "this" against other fights that have NOTHING to do with animals. But that type of talk was never used against non-vegetarians/vegans... I always thought that was interesting. It pushes this narrative that you shouldn't try to be more ethical if you cannot be perfectly ethical. It's also why I hate when vegans sh!t on vegetarians... or people that are trying to eat less meat or incorporating meatless Mondays.
not eating dairy and eggs is easy. boohoo you poor vegetarians can't live without cheese while calfs literally get killed. but hey it's not your fault you can't be perfectly ethical..
Also, did she claim that she sees indigenous creators getting harassed "all the time" for eating meat? I'd like to see some proof of that. I bet it's a flat out lie.
Context is important... this current vegan movement was created just at the time on social media where indigenous Peoples were actually being listened to AND supported by regular peoples from around the world... this whole half of the world is experiencing genoc!de, that is fact... others do not want to give up the vast wealth and resources of half a world so do anything to stop it from happening... the propaganda called veganism in its current social media form was specifically created to harm the indigenous... go back and look for yourself and see the truth of it and not just believe what you want to think is reality... just as the movement blm was created to drown out the indigenous voices! I am not saying Africans had anything to do with it, it was created by those who do not want to stop the genoc!de and evil harm being done to the indigenous Peoples of this half of the world... context matters!! they want you to argue that you are vegan and a good person so this movement must be good as well... the reality is this is not so... the reality is it was created just to harm the indigenous who were gaining support from regular people!!!!
@@GS-lq2isI've seen it on social media. And many people of color who are vegans also talk about the racism in veganism, especially when many used the transatlantic slavery or the Holocaust to equate it to animals. Slaves were considered objects and animals, so such comparisons are insensitive and racist.
this was a great response, I see these talking points spouted about vegans alllll the time, especially in young left wing queer people who simply throw out the environmentalist and indigenous practices arguments to feel okay about continuing to eat meat, when it's like... what on earth do the practices of subsistence hunters in indigenous communities have to do with you driving to a brightly-lit superstore in a developed country and buying pre-ground beef from a domesticated, corporate-factory-farmed cow raised hundreds (or thousands) of miles away, shrink-wrapped in plastic? and how is that environmentally friendly?
I always appreciate these types of videos you make, it becomes like an outlet that I can relate to. I don't really like to argue or confront people about veganism because it's one of those things that makes you realize how ignorant people can be, and nobody actually ever wants to have a discussion about it without making fun of us or making non sensical claims and fallacies.
Vegan does not equal use of plastic. ... so many other options than plastic. The defensive hyper mode is literally case in point pointing fingers, being unnecessarily agressive and acting better than thou...
Please reconsider secondhand leather. There is a HUGE resale market for leather - people buy leather new just to resell it. It contributes to the demand. And, it also supports these people's anti-vegan argument that leather is "better" and they themselves may or will not buy secondhand.
Agree. I also feel that it somehow desecrates the remains of the animal to use their skin like this and contributes to the psychological view of them as objects.
Her emotional response is kind of telling. It seems to me like she has some shame in what she supports and is trying to prove to herself that she is right. The outlandish claims about plastic and the few eccentrics (which are in every community) that aren’t showing empathy to all beings is grasping at straws.
Oh I relate a lot to your younger self talking about your cultural practices and noticing people's hypocrisy. I'm from Spain, and when I was 14-15 and still eating meat I would get into discussions with people who said bullfighting is abuse, because I found it so hypocritical to hear people talk about it like the worst abuse in the world (and IT IS abusive, obviously), when they were eating meat from factory farms lol
15:30 I think this argument comes from the common idea that veganism somehow disparages or erases Native American/indigenous peoples traditions. This idea is ridiculous though and also another form of erasure as it silences vegan POC voices. As a Hispanic man, I think it’s amazing how much vegan Mexican food has progressed in the PNW where I live and even one of the most popular protein options in Mexico is a type of cactus.
I have always gotten the uneasy feeling that it's a case of the "soft bigotry of low expectations;" these white kids subconsciously think that POC are too uncivilized to be vegan.
Just looking at the person from the TikTok ... EVERYTHING is going to be racist/sexist/oppressive/homophobic/etc to that person. Not even worth the effort.
How about we veganize everyone except for Indigenous People for Starters? And then look at this problem again. Why do people have to go ''You can't make the world 100% vegan, so you should stop altogether''.
understanding context is important!! the recent vegan movement arose to specifically harm the indigenous who were gaining much support from regular people from around the world, we were being listened to!! this movement was created to specifically harm the indigenous... they try to hide behind people who say they care about animals but do not let them!! call them out for what it is!!
There are also vegan movements within native communities. It's quite arrogant to speak for everyone in a community and say that they can't modify or abandon certain traditions in service of deeper values, that their culture can't grow and change beyond what it was when Europeans colonized their land. Cultures changed before European contact, but some people seem to think once it was recorded by white colonizers, that sets it in stone.
I don't remember the name of every commenter I've read. Are you trying to tell me an Indigenous person is incapable of being vegan if they choose to be?
The tic tok video is absurd. It might have been created to generate comments for and against there video to increase their algorithm. I enjoy your content. I like your grocery hauls, recipes and cooking. I learn numerous things from your content. Your Playlists are creative and informative. I also watch your channel as you express your opinion on various topics. Thank you for making content helping to educate vegans and non-vegans.
As vegans we should _definitely_ be trying to reduce our plastic use until such time as we are able to properly dispose of/recycle it. As far as possible and practicable.
A little off topic but then again kind of not. I recently listened to a podcast where someone said, they went to the jungle and met some indigenous people and that they didn't treat their animals well. And this was a light bulb moment for me, realising, 'Oh, some people really haven't made the connection, some people don't understand, Western world isn't nice to animals either AT ALL'.
lets see this context of this person...One persons opinion of something they probably have no idea about, lack sufficient understanding of culture and values of a people is kind of ridiculous.. those people exist so others can dismiss half the world's People, and only for this reason... think about that...
@@cranberrymerlin I am saying that the Peoples of half the world are so vast and varied that basing an assumption by a podcast seems a bit much... it sounded like you were guided by this podcast to form an opinion so I was trying to say do not base anything by one voice alone! Even mine, look for many so you can see a full picture...
Why me focusing on caring about animals has to mean I don't care about people too? You know we can care about several things at a time, right? We can have groups of ppl who are focused more on one issue and another group of ppl who are focused on another issue. Another thing that's funny to me is "vegans act holier than thou" thing... Excuse me, you're projecting your guilt and defensiveness on me. That's what's happening here. You feel that what you're doing is wrong, but you don't want to change your lifestyle, so you turn tables and make vegans the bad guys, and for what? Being outraged about the unnecessary torture and slaughter of animals? Imagine your standards being so low that you call a person who fights against the torture of animals or who at least, doesn't support it, "holier than thou" 🙄 Raise your standards, people.
I'm always annoyed when people say that the only alternative to non-vegan textiles is plastic. Just because you don't want to use wool doesn't mean that you have to use polyester instead. Other fibers exist. And the indigenous people argument is always so weird. Like an indigenous person hunting a deer living in its natural habitat and then using the entire animal to survive is very different than farmed animals living in terrible conditions and being mass slaughtered just so Kyle over there can have some bacon. Just because indigenous people do something doesn't mean that I have to.
As someone who had leather shoes before going vegan, I still have them. I’m not going throw them in the trash. Going forward I try to buy recycled shoes there are a few great brands but honestly I keep and use everything so rarely buy clothes. People will totally come after me for this but I do buy and wear wool socks as I’m a long distance hiker and they just work the best for me. Yes that makes me not a true vegan but so be it. I buy from an ethical brand and the sheep are not killed. Don’t bother going after me anyone as I’ve heard it all. We all do the best we can, at the end of the day. It all makes a difference. We need to respect each other. Thanks for the video Rose.🌹
It's better to do 95% and go for years than be 100% and fail after 3 weeks. None of us are 100%. If we were, we'd walk everywhere, harvest our own food, and never take any medicine. It's not practical or even possible for a lot of us. I still have my Ugs after 8 years. Been vegan 7 years. If I need them, I still wear them. Call me non vegan. I don't care. I do my best. If my husband needs work boots, so be it. It sucks that leather is used but because they're made in America, we're not continuing the fast fashion abuse in the 3rd world country. Leather lasts longer than plastic and will eventually break down in the landfill. The leather boots can be re-soled again and again, the cheap plastic ones cant. Again, we do our best. I did want to mention bamboo socks. My husband got some years ago and they held up (minus me needing to hem them once 😅), and they're very soft! Not sure if you've already tried, but thought I'd share.
ugh, coming from a cultural family.. they keep saying its ok to eat animals because they "respect the animal". THERE IS NO WAY TO EAT ANIMALS IN TODAY'S WORLD WITHOUT INDUSTRIZALING IT AND MAKING A PRODUCT OUT OF LIVING BEINGS. even if you did eat "fair life meat" or "wait for the animal to die" its like putting a band-aid on a huge problem. its not practical for everyone to get it that way, we need to lose the idea that innocent animals are food, period.
There are a lot of stupid and ignorant people talking sh*t on social medical about things they don't understand. You need a brain and compassion to truly understand veganism. A lot of people don't have that.
That influencer seems to have the attitude of "Whatever I personally like is 100% the only way to live" . and they twist everything to suit their narrative. Super gross attitude.
Hey Rose, I really enjoyed watching your video and hearing your arguments but I couldn’t stop staring at your top. Do you mind sharing where it’s from? It looks really nice on you. ❤😊
Vegan community is super majority POC, not even anglo. So not sure where the 'colonizer' comes from... although - I do know, I am aware - it's just a thought terminating cliche' to help the person leveling it not have to think critically about the subject. Leather as a commodity good will never be even sort of sustainably, last I checked there was no fish or chicken leather that may have the shadow of a chance of having a scoping close enough to carbon neutral.
my comments regarding the "vegan movement" as propaganda created when regular people began to listen to and support indigenous people on social media keep getting deleted... was does that tell you about me being right about the "context" of the veganism movement??? I am not saying individual vegans are doing it but those who are hiding behind the label of vegan to harm is real and needs to be understood... like the blm movement was created specifically to drown out indigenous voices... it is facts you can look back at social media and see for yourself.. I always said when commenting on it that it is not Africans I think are involved but propaganda is a real thing and needs to be addressed by the vegan community... if you let them hide behind your belief system then you are, in fact, supporting the harm being done to the indigenous... there is no grey area in this atrocity against humanity happening to this half of the world!
Thank you, Rose, for responding to this. Three more important points I'd like to add: 1. There is no way we can feed the world's quickly growing population on meat and other animal products. With vegan protein sources that are already part of many cultures including blue zones (such as tofu or beans, lentils and other legumes), we can. To reserve meat for the global elite (mostly from Western countries with a history of colonialism) and to willingly let people starve (animal products are wildly inefficient compared to plants in terms of calories) would be racist. 2. Consuming animal products at the rate we currently do would also worsen climate change as the production of animal products produces way more greenhouse gases than the production of plant-based foods. Climate change disproportionately affects the global south. This has a racist component. 3. Most of the world is lactose intolerant. To not offer vegan (inherently dairy-free) options means to not accomodate for other people's genetic predispositions. Again: racist.
This is a really fascinating video for a lot of intersectionality and leftist praxis. I’m recommending to all my friends - there’s so much you verbalize here that I think is applicable to many movements!
That creator has a problem with everything everyone does. It’s their life’s work to be upset and ranting. I wouldn’t even dignify it with a response, honestly.
I like these kind of videos and would watch them if you made any in the future. I remember that your argument about speciesism really showed how flawed our thinking is and mine was back then (in one of your older videos).
really? she failed to mention that the girl in the video was attacked first and continually by "vegans" and that this was her response to all the hate she received by so-called vegans... context matters! I found her beginning argument about killing off people for the environment to be ridiculous in the extreme... contest matters... trying to associate anything non vegan as agreeing with killing off humanity is a harming idea to spread around!! it is a source of dissension and that is never a good thing... People who use this sort of "logic" have an AGENDA... and it usually involves harming others or taking advantage of others (such as this whole half of the world living an ongoing atrocity against humanity!!) ... some things to think about..
No waaaay, Chile is top ten on the list of countries that eat the most meat? How heartbreaking. At least we have a thriving industry of animal product replacements. Hope it keeps growing
Well said. And I think their triggered response is coming from being triggered by the criticism, likely from fear that their channel/business will be negatively impacted by the feedback they are receiving. I love the fact that Indigenous people are speaking up here in the comments section. They don't speak for all Indigenous people or racism against people of colour. I get sick and tired of people whitesplaining racism to me as a person of colour, and throwing that in the argument about a whole different topic. Whataboutism needs to exit stage left.
I honestly think the people criticizing indigenous creators are mostly non-vegans. Because a lot of them also post videos of themselves eating whale meat, which rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
"Culture is not an excuse to do bad things" AMEN. Veganism is not racist and as you said, we criticise EVERY culture or race that abuses innocent animals because it is about the animals
I just took a look at their page and WOW their views are out there to the point where all the top comments are people making funny of them or being like "what are you talking about" but the ONE video against vegans has all supprt. What a surprise! That was deff the clarity I needed to confirm the gaslighting.
I'd go one step further and say that it's racist to treat a culture/race differently because of their culture/race, especially if it means having lower ethical expectations of them and giving them a free pass to oppress, exploit and kill, just because they belong to this group. Everyone can be ethical.
@@baganbobik9312Fanon talked about decolonizing from white European logics and the production of knowledge. He questioned objectivity in science used to legitimize racism and colonization. He was in favor of using ancestral tradition to rebuild our ways of live without embracing the past as the only way to overcome trauma; that's to say, we should be able to transform our lives and culture as our ancestors did in time of crisis without sticking to a past that we will never come back.
It is just the strangest line of argument about veganism I've witnessed. Rejecting the diet of colonizers is colonialism somehow? I do be culturally appropriating some ethnic food though. Not for profit, but just for my own personal enjoyment.
Ppl who bring up the racism in veganism ignore that veganism has a lot of its roots in other non WASP cultures. Off the top of my head, Black, Korean and Jewish cultures have alot of vegan practices in their old ways of life that have been changed because of industrialization brought on by the west.
I love how no matter how many times vegans respond to these kinds of videos, we still can't get four minutes into a response without having to flash the definition of veganism up on screen. Do they know its up there and free for anyone to look up whenever? I love your work and your patience!!
Even when plastic is used instead, it often lasts longer. For example, snowboarding boots almost universally use Vegan leather. It’s far more durable in conditions where moisture is present.
My choice to go vegan was because of health reasons. That's not at all to say I don't care one way or the other about the lives of animals. I just find I feel better and more healthy at 52 years old eating vegan. It may be difficult to go out to eat at restaurants with my girlfriend who is not vegan, however I will just exhale my exasperated sigh at the lack of vegan options within the restaurants that we go to, grin and bare, and just go with the flow. So if I happen to order something and it unknowingly contains approximately a tablespoon or less of butter, I'm not going to freak out about it. I would rather not consume the butter but I'm not going to freak out and feel the need to punish myself either mentally or by reducing my intake of some other food later in the day or the following day to make up for what I ended up consuming with the butter.
I love your discussion about the “holier than thou” agreement. Those invoking speciesism for their own benefit would be more fitting for the “holier than thou” label.
Every single form of oppression on earth has involved dehumanizing a group of people. The language has been: “equate these people to animals and that will justify their oppression”. There’s a subtle assumption in that. You have to believe that animals are worthy of oppression to believe that dehumanizing a group of people justifies their oppression. If we believe that animals are sentient individuals worthy of kindness, protection and compassion, then we are unable to use dehumanization to justify exploitation.
Our existence isn't harmful it's the morals that guide our actions that are harmful to the environment. If more ppl had the right to govern their lives,and extended this to animals, I believe the world better environmentally.
14:22 i think that’s the crux of it, one person becoming vegan, everything else being equal, makes them better, that doesn’t automatically translate to being better than other, random, people, some vegans being pretty destructive people in other ways, but of course people are not interested in comparing one person with other alternatives versions of that one person, that’s not fun enough, we want to compare against other people, and while you could say that vegans overall have one quality that makes them likelier to be better people than non-vegans, (kind of like being a man makes me likelier to be taller than a random woman, although there are women that are taller than me, they are pretty rare). We should be careful, as vegans, about projecting that assumed superiority, although part of it is not even on us, but on non-vegans resenting the mere existence of vegans as a danger to their self-perception as "good people".
The crazy part is, that traditional leather is bad for the environment just as much as microplastic leather because it DOES NOT BREAK DOWN due to the fact it's overprocessed, heat treated, and treated with tons of chemicals to preserve it. (I almost worked for Teather Leather pre-vegan this is how I learned all this plus I love archeology). This includes how indigenous cultures have done it. This is why we're finding leather clothing that's thousands of years old being dug up today still intact and, though worn, not broken down. I'm fully aware many reservations are cut off from resources which could be a cause for an argument IF cactus leather wasn't a thing...yet it is, and it's easily cultivated and has similar processes to traditional leather, making it an ethical option for indinigous cultures who are limited by colonization and racist governments. As a small business owner who went vegan BECAUSE animal agriculture and products are SO ANTI-Environment...this person is choosing to be brainwashed and defending the walls she put up to protect her own business from being seen as not ethical (because it isn't). I would argue with this person in addition to what was mentioned in the video, that many non-vegans are racist due to colonization and the erasing of cultures/practices while there are hundreds of cultures/tribes who have naturally vegan medicines and diets and recipes that have been lost in Western culture DUE TO colonization and certain foods being popularized than others, at least in the USA and Europe. Many indigenous cultures' way of life has been lost due to this. Bringing back seitan, legume, and chickpea-based proteins, Thai dishes, dishes from the Middle East, western Mediterranean countries, African countries, South American countries, Asian countries, and even Russian traditional dishes have been lost or demonized due to cultural racism or prejudice. We are not the problem. People like this who rely on animal exploitation to earn a living spewing hate and ignorance without common sense and actually seeking out to understand what veganism actually is. Thank you for making this video...I totally agree with all your points!
I'm vegan and I get tired of holier than thou vegans, especially since most of them if not about all ate meat at one time. It's not like you didn't know where meat came from since being a small child yet you didn't care. You don't get a free pass just because you saw the light one day. Vegans should give others the same consideration. I eat my food and I don't worry or make judgement about what others eat. People can absolutely care about animals and eat meat. When I use to eat meat, I loved animals and still do. When you tell people you do it because you care about the animals you are implying they don't care. It's ingrained into our culture. Simple as that. We can educate but when we come across as the typical holier than thou vegan, we turn people off and it's easy to understand why.
vegans can absolutely tell people that they're vegans because they care about the animals, if the implication makes non-vegans angry, defensive and lash out in physical attack that's on them, vegans are not responsible for other people's emotions when I still ate meat, one of my classmate said exactly this that she's a vegetarian because she cares about the animals but I didn't get defensive, I just didn't understand, she didn't elaborate but if she'd explain it would probably make me self-reflect instead of attacking her
TRAVEL WITH ME! Vegan Food Tours I'm hosting this year:
Vegan Trip to TURKEY (september) - bit.ly/veganinturkey
Vegan Trip to GREECE (september) - bit.ly/veganingreece
Vegan Trip to BALI (october) - bit.ly/veganinbali2
Cheap Lazy Vegan I love you but please dont talk like a welfarist. Veganism is the stance that other animals should NOT be used and killed and that they should be extended basic rights that are given to humans. Please watch Gary Francione’s speech about abolitionism!🙏 it is SO important!
@MercyForTheInnocent I didn't think she sounded like a welfarist. I think she's trying her best to stand up for Animals without getting harassed by meat eating youtubers. Simple youtubers like @sloan @letsgetintoitpodcast and many others need to be approached, not our fellow vegans. Nonetheless, thank you for standing up for the animals!
@@tiffanypetersen7645 we need to use the right language
@@MercyForTheInnocent much love to you ❤️
LOOOOOOVE your sweet pups 😘😘😘❤❤❤❤❤🐾🐾
To say that veganism is a white privilege thing or that it's racist is to ignore all of the hard work that people of color have done in this field. Richard Carroll, F. Rivers Barnwell, and William Key (all people of color) laid a foundational bedrock for animal welfare advocacy. There are millions of people of color who have fought for animal rights.
The black veganism movement has roots in the American Civil Rights movement. Dick Gregory, who marched with Martin Luther King, Jr., argued that "Because I'm a civil rights activist, I am also an animal rights activist. Animals and humans suffer and die alike."
Rastafari developed a plant-based diet known as Ital in Jamaica in the 1930s. Groups like the African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem advocated strict veganism since the 1960s. The Nation of Islam specifically connected choosing a plant-based diet to fighting racist oppression. Many Buddhists have been vegan for thousands of years, advocating for a lifestyle of non-violence.
Angela Davis is vegan too for the same reasons!
Wow, so many interesting things you mentioned, which I screenshoted and will read about in Wikipedia!
Also, aside from all those important people and movements you mentioned, let us not forget the amazing contributions many African American vegans have made to vegan soul food 🤤🙏👌
Oh god, more "white privilege" card again? It seems everytime somebody wants to make positive progress, there's always this pushback calling out White Privilege. Ok ... I feel that's a convenient scapegoat for people who just wanna oppose or hate on something because it grains against THEIR status quo. Like ... I'm nonwhite, and a vegetarian borderline vegan ... but I WELCOME "white privilege" if it means privileged people are leveraging their good positions in life to activate their conscience and just *choose better.* I see nothing wrong or criticism worthy in that. If it bothers people so much, they should at least understand and acknowledge that somebody at least gave a care and did something for the better.
It's too bad to have to confront that whole accusation from anybody - but you're right - progressive movements cut across racial lines, it's a HUMAN thing.
Yeah, Korean Buddhists are vegan, as well as many Indian Jains/Hindus/Buddhists.
All the hate against vegans lately is sad. 😞
Part of it seems like they're bullying what they believe is an easy target, because they think vegans:
1. aren't a category protected by anti-discrimination policies -- but some people are vegan based on religion or nationality, which are protected categories
2. are a small minority who either won't be part of their audience or won't be able to defend themselves -- but vegans are a growing population who should stand together to counter hate
For example, there are anti-vegan messages in these recent videos:
*LET'S TALK: Peta, Vegans, Food Wasters?*
[KOREAN COWBOYS channel]
13:05 "it's scientifically proven humans
are supposed to consume meat"
*Brits try the Best Pizzas in New York!*
[creators of Korean Englishman channel]
4:07 "who cares about vegans?"
To avoid rewarding them views, you can use "Show Transcript" in description to read what's said.
I think people only get so butthurt about vegans being “holier than thou” because deep down they feel insecure about the fact that they are unnecessarily hurting animals when they know it’s wrong. So their guilt tells them that vegans are just holier than thou.
I honestly think defensive anti veganism is far more loud, obnoxious, militant, aggressive unreasonable. I've also met mostly respectful and curious non vegans,
and most vegans are just doing their thing going ... in fact going out of our way to accommodate and make things easier when sharing meals.
Recently a man who looked like a pretty much pickled alcoholic buying a pint of hard liquor, bought my bananas just for the sake of it because I was in the queue with something healthy he said.
@@janefreeman995they shouldn't go out of their way to "accommodate" it's not the same as a non-vegan trying to "accommodate" vegans and tbh i don't think vegans should have nonavegan friends it's just not worth it imo
@@itzablackcat A non-vegan friend and non-vegan family member became vegan because I set the example rather than shutting them out.
@roku3216 same I've had friends and family go vegan simply by being non judgemental and providing and being happy with side dishes. Twice I've had friends and family make entirely vegan meals on my behalf, even Thanksgiving and I totally didn't expect it. It also helps that I hiked the pacific crest trail at 62 and don't have the laundry list of health issues like many in my age group.
@@janefreeman995 yeah, those that have done it around me did it for a combination of health and ethical reasons, but staying present definitely helped them see that I have a good time, delicious food, and can live in alignment with my ethics comfortably. I'm healthier now than before the transition 9 years ago, and am coming up 62 this fall :)
I’ve never understood why people get so upset with vegans because we care about all animals. A cow has emotions and feelings just like a dog. All animals deserve to live, what makes us better?Nothing does. We’ve been conditioned to believe the opposite
Because it means they're doing something bad. Eating meat is part of what they think is normal. If they accept that is not ok then it means they have to change part of their identities. People prefer to think vegans are annoying and crazy, it's much easier than facing they are doing something horrible
It is not your personal ideas that is the problem, it is the harm being done under the name of "veganism"... proper context matters!
this current movement was created specifically because the indigenous Peoples were gaining support by regular people on social media... they were being openly supported which terrified those who are here to rob, murder and destroy for profit...
Now you connect the dots yourself, if you dare...
It's because they're uncomfortable with confronting the truth of the consequences of their actions. Nobody wants to be called out or held accountable. Unfortunately that's human nature. That's why we need to consistently show up. People will change when they're ready not a moment before. We just need to be there when they are
I am vegan I'm not preachy about it to people.. and I believe most people have a problem vegans because most vegans are preachy and kind of b***** about things.. and they try to make other people feel like they need to do this too..
Because you try forcing your beliefs on us. There are vegans actively trying to ban meats, and animal products.
Indigenous person here, I was literally at a large ceremony recently and we where talking about how being indigenous means living along side the earth and doing what it takes to do that and how hunting/finishing agriculture aren’t sustainable till the word is healed enough and those animals repopulated. Also that can’t happen while factory farming is and how people over consuming that includes non indigenous people making art with severely underpopulated animal hides actually harms communities of color because it often results in deforestation to create more grazing land for deer so more hunting licenses can be sold. Also comercial deer leather comes from farms🤦🏽♀️
Thanks for sharing!
And if we don’t need to eat animals, we maybe shouldn’t do it, whether we could, environmentally speaking, or not.
I’m starting to suspect that eating animal products interferes with people’s ability to practice critical thinking in a logical and rational way. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm wondering if it's a spiritual soul tie or demon or something. Like eating flesh puts a veil over our mind's eye. I thought Creator told me to not eat flesh but I didn't understand it. I stepped out in faith. No harm in doing no harm. Haha I thought I saw Jesus serve people fish BUT the book of Jeremiah says there are lying scribes. There are other texts that suggest Jesus was also vegan and the canon was adultered. Ask Creator yourselves, of course. Don't trust randos, like me on the internet. Ask Creator and reflect inward.
because they're stuck on the defense because they deep down KNOW it's wrong and it becomes harder to justify their choices.
People love to say vegans are holier than thou. If they make you feel guilty about your practices just by existing then maybe you should look inwards
Well, that will always be human nature to exclaim "you're just acting holier than thou."
My sole reaction and response at this moment to such people is, "I can't help you with that."
There's not much anybody can do about somebody electing a nonviolent way of life and somebody reacting in this manner just because they disagree. Kind of ... defies logic.
Oh well. lol.
I am a black vegan low income and people will tell me it is white washed and expensive and somehow they say those things to me and im the only vegan they know irl?? Like they be saying anything 😭😭
Super impressive that you're sticking to your principles in that environment. The social aspect is pretty rough for most people, but I at least know some vegans in my area which is helpful to stay sane dealing with the absurd behavior of people when I simply just eat something without any "protein" as a man.
I also hate this tiktok because there's LOTS of indigenous vegans talking about all of this, but people like that person prefer to strawman an entire social justice movement instead of acknowledging the fact that lots of marginalized people are politically active and disagree with them.
"marginalized" is the wrong word to use!! were those in the death camps in WWII "marginalized" no they were experiencing genocid@!! as are the Peoples of this half of the world...
For her to presume indigenous people must live on deer in the modern world is in itself, racist.
Indigenous vegans - like who?
@@baganbobik9312 tons of them? Doing vegan activism just like everyone else. Check out aotearoa liberation league for example.
@@monemori when I hear indigenous people I think about those still living in tribes)
I don’t think that young lady understands the meaning of the word racist. I’ve been vegan for several years. Veganism is not new. It was the original diet in the Bible. Just a reference… I’ve also been a liberal or libtard all my adult life. I’ve hated furs since I was a child in the 50s and 60s. An animal lover for over 70 years and I love these new vegans standing up for our fellow earthlings!
context is important... "veganism" as a recent movement started just when the indigenous Peoples of this half of the world were gaining much support from regular people who began listening to them and learning true history and events...
veganism was coined to hate on them and their way of life... to purposefully harm the indigenous....
that is reality...
I am not saying actual vegans did this, I am saying this movement was created specifically to harm the indigenous much like the #blm movement was created to drown out indigenous voices and the genocid@l ones could pretend they are not evil war crims... I am not saying Africans planned it just as I am not saying vegans planned this current movement...
allowing them to hide behind you is you supporting them, there is no grey area... you must call them out...
understanding the context is important and must not be overlooked because it sheds light on your own actions and involvement in the ongoing genoc!de of this whole half of the world...
❤️
Racism is obviously when a white person says something negative to a non-white person, duh! /s
I love how you just called yourself a libtard like it’s a regular term😂😭
@@Anonymous-cq5dl I think its cute haha. Boomers picking up internet lingo and not really getting the nuance is adorable.
I honestly felt that the tiktok was ridiculously patronising.
One must know the truth before acting! 👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
Veganism and environmentalism are the two sides of the same coin 👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions
@@VeganSemihCyprus33 Your point
@@Nancita43 you agree with the person?
People usually say vegans are judgemental but when I was vegan for 3 years I never told people I was vegan unless it came up in a conversation. I would simply say o yeah I don’t eat animal products, and when I would simply say that people suddenly became health experts and would criticize, make fun of me. I literally wouldn’t say anything. And sometimes I wouldn’t even bring it up , but other people would and then came the projections 🙄🙄🙄 it was crazy
Yes, people get used to the fact that you are a weirdo
I leave them at that, never preach, as there is no hope. One way or another, those around me convince themselves that meat& dairy industry is fine, the rightful legacy of humankind. OK then😁
I went through that in the 2000s, too, but luckily as time progressed, even those reactions seemed to become less.
I feel the vegetarian, vegan, and plant-based movement is growing worldwide.
I don't even bring it up when ordering food, my father does and I have to specifically tell him not to because where we live lot of people still don't even know what vegan is, so I prefer to ask "is there dairy? eggs?" instead of asking "is it vegan?"
The tiktok girl already voided her own argument by mentioning environmentalism and using cow leather. Raising cows (& taking their skin for leather) is the worst in terms of environmentalism. She is just defensive because she feels inconvenienced and doesn’t want to put in the effort to improve her ways.
Love that you do more animal rights stuff on your channel. You're doing a great job!
One must know the truth before acting! 👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
Veganism and environmentalism are the two sides of the same coin 👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
@@VeganSemihCyprus33 Please stop spamming.
Very informative! Thx! I was transitioning to vegetarianism in Berkeley in the early ‘70’s and I remember my first encounter with a vegan. I was enthralled to see they were vegan down to their toes! They wore cloth shoes. The vegans I met did not go to the movies because in those days movie film contained gelatin. I also met a few amazing fruitarians and still wonder how they are doing💕
Fantastic ... down to refusing gelatin film.
Now THAT'S commitment.
It might be arguable that the plastic is still more environmentally friendly than animal leather based on emissions. Using an indigenous culture as an excuse to harm animals is just an appeal to tradition fallacy.
"indigenous culture" does not harm animals, nor plants, for that matter... thinking otherwise is ingrained genoc!dal propaganda that must be acknowledged...
That’s when you lose sane rational people. Plastic is not environmentally friendly. The air you’re breathing in contains plastic. There’s plastic now in the human heart. Wake up. Your so focused on saving animals when this planet and all the animals are going to be dead because this planet is inhabitable
Yeah, it certainly isn't straightforward. Sure indigenous culture was sustainable and there are practices we can learn from, but not sure if everything they did, if scaled up to a population of billions, would be sustainable. Hunting certainly wouldn't be sustainable if everyone was doing that.
@@Cancellator5000 but isnt the point of the indigenous world view that they would never overpopulate????!!! To treat live decently and live lightly upon Nature??
@@SeareanMoon Do you think this person is advocating for population control? The fact is plant based options are going to be more sustainable, so while yes technically indigenous cultures were more sustainable than modern day society, they weren't necessarily optimally sustainable per capita. Humans have been wiping out species since our early history when we were all hunter gatherers and living like indigenous people.
I'd hate to be a non-vegan in a debate against Rose 😂
I don't think anyone has ever attempted it. 😎
Non vegan.. you mean a normal person?
It's not worthwhile to debate. The arguments against veganism are riddled in fallacy and flawed reasoning as demonstrated in the above video.
@@yaash4123 Humans are designed to eat meat, we have a single stomach of Simple design with strong stomach acid like all carnivores and meat heavy omnivores. We are physically incapable of properly digesting most plants, and only thanks to our linger intestines can we even absorb any nutritional value from it.
We evolved to eat mostly meat and animal products. Fish, fats, organs, etc. The ratio is around 90-95% animal products and 5-10% easy to digest plants like berries and fruits, soft veggies. We pass most of it out without breaking it down because we lack thr advanced stomachs that cows and other herbivores or plant heavy omnivores have.
Facts are facts.
i wouldn't either lol, she should do debates. btw, i thought you were unnatural egan at first glance, that freaked me out lol.
What also blew my mind when they did this video is that people might've been asking for vegan leather because they wanted to support their business, but instead they got this rant.
Most probably, yes… 😢
22:11 I love that you found a way to do a British accent in a serious video 🤣🫶
Wish people made a bigger deal of this: Animals require a lot of crops to be grown for their consumption. Indigenous tribes are displaced to make way for said crops in places like Brazil. That animal feed is then shipped to countries like the UK and US.
So, eating animal products in western countries can literally help displace indigenous tribes.
By eating animal products, you're not 'supporting' indigenous tribes, you're harming them.
Exactly. And it CANNOT only displace them, in the Brazilian Amazon they’re constantly displaced for that reason.
@@CaroAbebe displaced - and murdered :(
Rose! Thank you for this! I’ve been vegan for 30 years now, and have heard all this BS from others from day 1. You’re 100% right! I hope non-vegans see this video.
Thanks! 💚💚💚
Joe
Not this woman freaking out and making a whole tt rant just because some people asked her if she works with vegan leather :)) Who ironically probably did it because they do want to support small creators. Are there racist vegans? I'm sure there are, as in the non vegan population. That doesn't link veganism with racism the same way not all non vegan people are racist. Whenever someone approaches any vegan discussion with whataboutism I just roll my eyes back to my brain. I don't know how Ed does it, i could not argue with all this non sense.
There's nothing more colonist in America than animal agriculture
this
What? Lol.. animal farming has been around for thousands of years, it's not unique to America..
Eating meat is natural and healthy
@@fustercluck2460 Of course, animal fHarming is not unique to America, but European colonists brought it there in big style.
@@biancat.1873 Yes.. animal farming is a part of being civilized.. the natives were savage and hunted instead, they were primitive and that's why they got crushed.
The strong survive and the weak.. wel..
@@fustercluck2460 lol society provides a social safety net for the "weak", plenty of bloodlines still going that would have been stamped out without it.Also what is more civilized about factory farming?
Right now there is leather made with avocado skins and it looks and last just like leather. That is another factor. As long as we keep using real leather, we are not going to find or do better alternatives because there will be no demand.
When I was a vegetarian I often found that people would expect me to be ethical in EVERY SINGLE FIGHT since I was trying to be more ethical for animals... and they would use those examples as an argument against my vegetarianism. Like... my vegetarianism was stupid if I'm still doing "this" "this" and "this" against other fights that have NOTHING to do with animals. But that type of talk was never used against non-vegetarians/vegans... I always thought that was interesting. It pushes this narrative that you shouldn't try to be more ethical if you cannot be perfectly ethical. It's also why I hate when vegans sh!t on vegetarians... or people that are trying to eat less meat or incorporating meatless Mondays.
um they're not vegan tho so they still contribute to animal abuse. it's really not hard to be vegan.
not eating dairy and eggs is easy. boohoo you poor vegetarians can't live without cheese while calfs literally get killed. but hey it's not your fault you can't be perfectly ethical..
Also, did she claim that she sees indigenous creators getting harassed "all the time" for eating meat? I'd like to see some proof of that. I bet it's a flat out lie.
And I made the comment right before you talked about the general concept that no, vegans don't target indigenous communities! lol
Context is important... this current vegan movement was created just at the time on social media where indigenous Peoples were actually being listened to AND supported by regular peoples from around the world...
this whole half of the world is experiencing genoc!de, that is fact...
others do not want to give up the vast wealth and resources of half a world so do anything to stop it from happening...
the propaganda called veganism in its current social media form was specifically created to harm the indigenous... go back and look for yourself and see the truth of it and not just believe what you want to think is reality... just as the movement blm was created to drown out the indigenous voices! I am not saying Africans had anything to do with it, it was created by those who do not want to stop the genoc!de and evil harm being done to the indigenous Peoples of this half of the world...
context matters!!
they want you to argue that you are vegan and a good person so this movement must be good as well...
the reality is this is not so...
the reality is it was created just to harm the indigenous who were gaining support from regular people!!!!
@@GS-lq2isI've seen it on social media. And many people of color who are vegans also talk about the racism in veganism, especially when many used the transatlantic slavery or the Holocaust to equate it to animals. Slaves were considered objects and animals, so such comparisons are insensitive and racist.
Of all the performative outrage I've seen, calling vegans racist is up there with the most pathetic.
this was a great response, I see these talking points spouted about vegans alllll the time, especially in young left wing queer people who simply throw out the environmentalist and indigenous practices arguments to feel okay about continuing to eat meat, when it's like... what on earth do the practices of subsistence hunters in indigenous communities have to do with you driving to a brightly-lit superstore in a developed country and buying pre-ground beef from a domesticated, corporate-factory-farmed cow raised hundreds (or thousands) of miles away, shrink-wrapped in plastic? and how is that environmentally friendly?
THIS.
"Vegans, we don't discriminate, we hate it all" 😂
I know you meant all abuse but I just loved that and felt touched, I do hate it all
I knew a guy who had a pair of boots made very responsibly they were made from recycled tires.
Yes for intersectional veganism but when will THEY include veganism in their causes?
I always appreciate these types of videos you make, it becomes like an outlet that I can relate to. I don't really like to argue or confront people about veganism because it's one of those things that makes you realize how ignorant people can be, and nobody actually ever wants to have a discussion about it without making fun of us or making non sensical claims and fallacies.
Vegan does not equal use of plastic. ... so many other options than plastic. The defensive hyper mode is literally case in point pointing fingers, being unnecessarily agressive and acting better than thou...
Please reconsider secondhand leather. There is a HUGE resale market for leather - people buy leather new just to resell it. It contributes to the demand. And, it also supports these people's anti-vegan argument that leather is "better" and they themselves may or will not buy secondhand.
This is a great argument that I never considered . 👍
Yes!!
Agree. I also feel that it somehow desecrates the remains of the animal to use their skin like this and contributes to the psychological view of them as objects.
Oh yeah, I hated that part of Rose's video, although I agree with anything else and appreciate the video overall
At some point the footage of a talking parrot was in sync with Rose's voiceover. 😂
It's incredible how you can make us see the beautiful in simple things! Thank you for your amazing stories! 🌻📹
One must know the truth before acting! 👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
Since vegans have compassion to sentient beings, they also have compassion to people who might experience racism.
Does that mean they are all also pro life?
@@fustercluck2460
Don't really understand what are you trying to say.
@@fustercluck2460 are all people who call themselves "pro-life", vegan?
@@nocturnal03 They are pro human life.
@@fustercluck2460 so that's a no
Her emotional response is kind of telling. It seems to me like she has some shame in what she supports and is trying to prove to herself that she is right. The outlandish claims about plastic and the few eccentrics (which are in every community) that aren’t showing empathy to all beings is grasping at straws.
Oh I relate a lot to your younger self talking about your cultural practices and noticing people's hypocrisy. I'm from Spain, and when I was 14-15 and still eating meat I would get into discussions with people who said bullfighting is abuse, because I found it so hypocritical to hear people talk about it like the worst abuse in the world (and IT IS abusive, obviously), when they were eating meat from factory farms lol
15:30 I think this argument comes from the common idea that veganism somehow disparages or erases Native American/indigenous peoples traditions. This idea is ridiculous though and also another form of erasure as it silences vegan POC voices. As a Hispanic man, I think it’s amazing how much vegan Mexican food has progressed in the PNW where I live and even one of the most popular protein options in Mexico is a type of cactus.
I have always gotten the uneasy feeling that it's a case of the "soft bigotry of low expectations;" these white kids subconsciously think that POC are too uncivilized to be vegan.
I really really appreciate you making these videos. I hope it helps a few ppl make the connection or to ponder on things a little bit.
I can not express myself in english so good. But you are just amazing ❤ very good talk!
If you can understand all of this video, then your English is still really amazing! :)
Just looking at the person from the TikTok ... EVERYTHING is going to be racist/sexist/oppressive/homophobic/etc to that person. Not even worth the effort.
Completely correct on every single point. I love you so much.
How about we veganize everyone except for Indigenous People for Starters? And then look at this problem again. Why do people have to go ''You can't make the world 100% vegan, so you should stop altogether''.
understanding context is important!! the recent vegan movement arose to specifically harm the indigenous who were gaining much support from regular people from around the world, we were being listened to!! this movement was created to specifically harm the indigenous... they try to hide behind people who say they care about animals but do not let them!! call them out for what it is!!
There are also vegan movements within native communities. It's quite arrogant to speak for everyone in a community and say that they can't modify or abandon certain traditions in service of deeper values, that their culture can't grow and change beyond what it was when Europeans colonized their land. Cultures changed before European contact, but some people seem to think once it was recorded by white colonizers, that sets it in stone.
There are also indigenous people being vegans.
@@roku3216like who, where, how?
I don't remember the name of every commenter I've read. Are you trying to tell me an Indigenous person is incapable of being vegan if they choose to be?
The tic tok video is absurd. It might have been created to generate comments for and against there video to increase their algorithm.
I enjoy your content. I like your grocery hauls, recipes and cooking. I learn numerous things from your content. Your Playlists are creative and informative.
I also watch your channel as you express your opinion
on various topics.
Thank you for making content helping to educate vegans and non-vegans.
As vegans we should _definitely_ be trying to reduce our plastic use until such time as we are able to properly dispose of/recycle it. As far as possible and practicable.
A little off topic but then again kind of not. I recently listened to a podcast where someone said, they went to the jungle and met some indigenous people and that they didn't treat their animals well. And this was a light bulb moment for me, realising, 'Oh, some people really haven't made the connection, some people don't understand, Western world isn't nice to animals either AT ALL'.
lets see this context of this person...One persons opinion of something they probably have no idea about, lack sufficient understanding of culture and values of a people is kind of ridiculous.. those people exist so others can dismiss half the world's People, and only for this reason... think about that...
@@SeareanMoon Not sure I understand what you mean🤔
@@cranberrymerlin I am saying that the Peoples of half the world are so vast and varied that basing an assumption by a podcast seems a bit much... it sounded like you were guided by this podcast to form an opinion so I was trying to say do not base anything by one voice alone! Even mine, look for many so you can see a full picture...
@@SeareanMoon Oh, no, don't worry, I didn't☺️ I was almost saying quite the opposite, too😊
Some indigenous people may kill humans as well as part of tradition, so being against human killing is racist and colonial!
Why me focusing on caring about animals has to mean I don't care about people too? You know we can care about several things at a time, right? We can have groups of ppl who are focused more on one issue and another group of ppl who are focused on another issue.
Another thing that's funny to me is "vegans act holier than thou" thing... Excuse me, you're projecting your guilt and defensiveness on me. That's what's happening here. You feel that what you're doing is wrong, but you don't want to change your lifestyle, so you turn tables and make vegans the bad guys, and for what? Being outraged about the unnecessary torture and slaughter of animals? Imagine your standards being so low that you call a person who fights against the torture of animals or who at least, doesn't support it, "holier than thou" 🙄
Raise your standards, people.
Well, humans are animals, so we’d just need to say we care about ALL animals.
I'm always annoyed when people say that the only alternative to non-vegan textiles is plastic. Just because you don't want to use wool doesn't mean that you have to use polyester instead. Other fibers exist. And the indigenous people argument is always so weird. Like an indigenous person hunting a deer living in its natural habitat and then using the entire animal to survive is very different than farmed animals living in terrible conditions and being mass slaughtered just so Kyle over there can have some bacon. Just because indigenous people do something doesn't mean that I have to.
I always enjoy these videos. So nice to remember there are other people with common sense. 🙌
As someone who had leather shoes before going vegan, I still have them. I’m not going throw them in the trash. Going forward I try to buy recycled shoes there are a few great brands but honestly I keep and use everything so rarely buy clothes. People will totally come after me for this but I do buy and wear wool socks as I’m a long distance hiker and they just work the best for me. Yes that makes me not a true vegan but so be it. I buy from an ethical brand and the sheep are not killed. Don’t bother going after me anyone as I’ve heard it all. We all do the best we can, at the end of the day. It all makes a difference. We need to respect each other. Thanks for the video Rose.🌹
It's better to do 95% and go for years than be 100% and fail after 3 weeks. None of us are 100%. If we were, we'd walk everywhere, harvest our own food, and never take any medicine. It's not practical or even possible for a lot of us. I still have my Ugs after 8 years. Been vegan 7 years. If I need them, I still wear them. Call me non vegan. I don't care. I do my best. If my husband needs work boots, so be it. It sucks that leather is used but because they're made in America, we're not continuing the fast fashion abuse in the 3rd world country. Leather lasts longer than plastic and will eventually break down in the landfill. The leather boots can be re-soled again and again, the cheap plastic ones cant.
Again, we do our best.
I did want to mention bamboo socks. My husband got some years ago and they held up (minus me needing to hem them once 😅), and they're very soft! Not sure if you've already tried, but thought I'd share.
I like the focus on other species we share the planet with, thank you!
ugh, coming from a cultural family.. they keep saying its ok to eat animals because they "respect the animal". THERE IS NO WAY TO EAT ANIMALS IN TODAY'S WORLD WITHOUT INDUSTRIZALING IT AND MAKING A PRODUCT OUT OF LIVING BEINGS. even if you did eat "fair life meat" or "wait for the animal to die" its like putting a band-aid on a huge problem. its not practical for everyone to get it that way, we need to lose the idea that innocent animals are food, period.
Appreciate your voice in this space, keep it up!
There are a lot of stupid and ignorant people talking sh*t on social medical about things they don't understand.
You need a brain and compassion to truly understand veganism. A lot of people don't have that.
That influencer seems to have the attitude of "Whatever I personally like is 100% the only way to live" . and they twist everything to suit their narrative. Super gross attitude.
Hey Rose, I really enjoyed watching your video and hearing your arguments but I couldn’t stop staring at your top. Do you mind sharing where it’s from? It looks really nice on you. ❤😊
I love it when you get fired up defending veganism. You’re are the best Rose!!!! Preach on!!
Love these type of vids, you should do more! Have you thought of making a separate channel that is more focus to vegan activism?
ur so good at talking about this kind of thing i would love to see more vegan talks videos!
Vegan community is super majority POC, not even anglo. So not sure where the 'colonizer' comes from... although - I do know, I am aware - it's just a thought terminating cliche' to help the person leveling it not have to think critically about the subject. Leather as a commodity good will never be even sort of sustainably, last I checked there was no fish or chicken leather that may have the shadow of a chance of having a scoping close enough to carbon neutral.
my comments regarding the "vegan movement" as propaganda created when regular people began to listen to and support indigenous people on social media keep getting deleted... was does that tell you about me being right about the "context" of the veganism movement???
I am not saying individual vegans are doing it but those who are hiding behind the label of vegan to harm is real and needs to be understood... like the blm movement was created specifically to drown out indigenous voices... it is facts you can look back at social media and see for yourself.. I always said when commenting on it that it is not Africans I think are involved but propaganda is a real thing and needs to be addressed by the vegan community...
if you let them hide behind your belief system then you are, in fact, supporting the harm being done to the indigenous...
there is no grey area in this atrocity against humanity happening to this half of the world!
Thank you, Rose, for responding to this.
Three more important points I'd like to add:
1. There is no way we can feed the world's quickly growing population on meat and other animal products. With vegan protein sources that are already part of many cultures including blue zones (such as tofu or beans, lentils and other legumes), we can. To reserve meat for the global elite (mostly from Western countries with a history of colonialism) and to willingly let people starve (animal products are wildly inefficient compared to plants in terms of calories) would be racist.
2. Consuming animal products at the rate we currently do would also worsen climate change as the production of animal products produces way more greenhouse gases than the production of plant-based foods. Climate change disproportionately affects the global south. This has a racist component.
3. Most of the world is lactose intolerant. To not offer vegan (inherently dairy-free) options means to not accomodate for other people's genetic predispositions. Again: racist.
This is a really fascinating video for a lot of intersectionality and leftist praxis. I’m recommending to all my friends - there’s so much you verbalize here that I think is applicable to many movements!
That creator has a problem with everything everyone does. It’s their life’s work to be upset and ranting. I wouldn’t even dignify it with a response, honestly.
I like these kind of videos and would watch them if you made any in the future. I remember that your argument about speciesism really showed how flawed our thinking is and mine was back then (in one of your older videos).
really? she failed to mention that the girl in the video was attacked first
and continually by "vegans"
and that this was her response to all the hate she received by so-called vegans...
context matters!
I found her beginning argument about killing off people for the environment to be ridiculous in the extreme...
contest matters...
trying to associate anything non vegan as agreeing with killing off humanity is a harming idea to spread around!! it is a source of dissension and that is never a good thing...
People who use this sort of "logic" have an AGENDA... and it usually involves harming others or taking advantage of others (such as this whole half of the world living an ongoing atrocity against humanity!!) ...
some things to think about..
No waaaay, Chile is top ten on the list of countries that eat the most meat? How heartbreaking. At least we have a thriving industry of animal product replacements. Hope it keeps growing
This was so incredibly validating and wonderful. You're so eloquent and thoughtful and I just love following you!
Well said. And I think their triggered response is coming from being triggered by the criticism, likely from fear that their channel/business will be negatively impacted by the feedback they are receiving. I love the fact that Indigenous people are speaking up here in the comments section. They don't speak for all Indigenous people or racism against people of colour. I get sick and tired of people whitesplaining racism to me as a person of colour, and throwing that in the argument about a whole different topic. Whataboutism needs to exit stage left.
I honestly think the people criticizing indigenous creators are mostly non-vegans. Because a lot of them also post videos of themselves eating whale meat, which rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
"Culture is not an excuse to do bad things" AMEN. Veganism is not racist and as you said, we criticise EVERY culture or race that abuses innocent animals because it is about the animals
I just took a look at their page and WOW their views are out there to the point where all the top comments are people making funny of them or being like "what are you talking about" but the ONE video against vegans has all supprt. What a surprise! That was deff the clarity I needed to confirm the gaslighting.
❤❤❤Thank you Rose excellent , I shared your video on my Facebook, this by far one of your greatest streams on veganism. Thank you 🎉❤🎉❤
22:36 100% 👏🏼 you do a great job tearing these points down one by one
I'd go one step further and say that it's racist to treat a culture/race differently because of their culture/race, especially if it means having lower ethical expectations of them and giving them a free pass to oppress, exploit and kill, just because they belong to this group. Everyone can be ethical.
I don’t think “decolonise your veganism” is exactly what Franz Fanon meant…
What do you mean exactly?
@@baganbobik9312Fanon talked about decolonizing from white European logics and the production of knowledge. He questioned objectivity in science used to legitimize racism and colonization. He was in favor of using ancestral tradition to rebuild our ways of live without embracing the past as the only way to overcome trauma; that's to say, we should be able to transform our lives and culture as our ancestors did in time of crisis without sticking to a past that we will never come back.
It is just the strangest line of argument about veganism I've witnessed. Rejecting the diet of colonizers is colonialism somehow? I do be culturally appropriating some ethnic food though. Not for profit, but just for my own personal enjoyment.
Great discussion thanks so much for sharing Rose.
You made a great video, Rose, I really appreciate it. Well thought out and articulated.
Love these reaction videos! & love the b-roll footage in this video. So cute!!
Everything you said 1000%
Ppl who bring up the racism in veganism ignore that veganism has a lot of its roots in other non WASP cultures. Off the top of my head, Black, Korean and Jewish cultures have alot of vegan practices in their old ways of life that have been changed because of industrialization brought on by the west.
I just like your method of civil dialogue.
Well-said. Veganism is about liberation. I just reacted to this on my livestream tonight. Thanks for making this.
I love how no matter how many times vegans respond to these kinds of videos, we still can't get four minutes into a response without having to flash the definition of veganism up on screen. Do they know its up there and free for anyone to look up whenever? I love your work and your patience!!
I love it when someone tries to out-SJW vegans. Come on, dude, we're the OGs!
This was such a smart, concise, and nuanced argument. You really stood on business
This is why TikTok needs to be banned worldwide, not just the US
Even when plastic is used instead, it often lasts longer. For example, snowboarding boots almost universally use Vegan leather. It’s far more durable in conditions where moisture is present.
My choice to go vegan was because of health reasons. That's not at all to say I don't care one way or the other about the lives of animals. I just find I feel better and more healthy at 52 years old eating vegan. It may be difficult to go out to eat at restaurants with my girlfriend who is not vegan, however I will just exhale my exasperated sigh at the lack of vegan options within the restaurants that we go to, grin and bare, and just go with the flow.
So if I happen to order something and it unknowingly contains approximately a tablespoon or less of butter, I'm not going to freak out about it. I would rather not consume the butter but I'm not going to freak out and feel the need to punish myself either mentally or by reducing my intake of some other food later in the day or the following day to make up for what I ended up consuming with the butter.
This was low hanging fruit to refute, but I enjoyed watching you do it anyway. 👍
I love your discussion about the “holier than thou” agreement. Those invoking speciesism for their own benefit would be more fitting for the “holier than thou” label.
As a vegan I have learned to value all animal life - that includes human life, skin colour is irrelevant.
Every single form of oppression on earth has involved dehumanizing a group of people. The language has been: “equate these people to animals and that will justify their oppression”. There’s a subtle assumption in that. You have to believe that animals are worthy of oppression to believe that dehumanizing a group of people justifies their oppression. If we believe that animals are sentient individuals worthy of kindness, protection and compassion, then we are unable to use dehumanization to justify exploitation.
Our existence isn't harmful it's the morals that guide our actions that are harmful to the environment. If more ppl had the right to govern their lives,and extended this to animals, I believe the world better environmentally.
I agree 100% with pretty much everything you said.
14:22 i think that’s the crux of it, one person becoming vegan, everything else being equal, makes them better, that doesn’t automatically translate to being better than other, random, people, some vegans being pretty destructive people in other ways, but of course people are not interested in comparing one person with other alternatives versions of that one person, that’s not fun enough, we want to compare against other people, and while you could say that vegans overall have one quality that makes them likelier to be better people than non-vegans, (kind of like being a man makes me likelier to be taller than a random woman, although there are women that are taller than me, they are pretty rare). We should be careful, as vegans, about projecting that assumed superiority, although part of it is not even on us, but on non-vegans resenting the mere existence of vegans as a danger to their self-perception as "good people".
Go off girl! Let 'em hear it!
The crazy part is, that traditional leather is bad for the environment just as much as microplastic leather because it DOES NOT BREAK DOWN due to the fact it's overprocessed, heat treated, and treated with tons of chemicals to preserve it. (I almost worked for Teather Leather pre-vegan this is how I learned all this plus I love archeology). This includes how indigenous cultures have done it. This is why we're finding leather clothing that's thousands of years old being dug up today still intact and, though worn, not broken down. I'm fully aware many reservations are cut off from resources which could be a cause for an argument IF cactus leather wasn't a thing...yet it is, and it's easily cultivated and has similar processes to traditional leather, making it an ethical option for indinigous cultures who are limited by colonization and racist governments. As a small business owner who went vegan BECAUSE animal agriculture and products are SO ANTI-Environment...this person is choosing to be brainwashed and defending the walls she put up to protect her own business from being seen as not ethical (because it isn't).
I would argue with this person in addition to what was mentioned in the video, that many non-vegans are racist due to colonization and the erasing of cultures/practices while there are hundreds of cultures/tribes who have naturally vegan medicines and diets and recipes that have been lost in Western culture DUE TO colonization and certain foods being popularized than others, at least in the USA and Europe. Many indigenous cultures' way of life has been lost due to this. Bringing back seitan, legume, and chickpea-based proteins, Thai dishes, dishes from the Middle East, western Mediterranean countries, African countries, South American countries, Asian countries, and even Russian traditional dishes have been lost or demonized due to cultural racism or prejudice. We are not the problem. People like this who rely on animal exploitation to earn a living spewing hate and ignorance without common sense and actually seeking out to understand what veganism actually is. Thank you for making this video...I totally agree with all your points!
great video Rose!!
I'm vegan and I get tired of holier than thou vegans, especially since most of them if not about all ate meat at one time. It's not like you didn't know where meat came from since being a small child yet you didn't care. You don't get a free pass just because you saw the light one day. Vegans should give others the same consideration. I eat my food and I don't worry or make judgement about what others eat. People can absolutely care about animals and eat meat. When I use to eat meat, I loved animals and still do. When you tell people you do it because you care about the animals you are implying they don't care. It's ingrained into our culture. Simple as that. We can educate but when we come across as the typical holier than thou vegan, we turn people off and it's easy to understand why.
vegans can absolutely tell people that they're vegans because they care about the animals, if the implication makes non-vegans angry, defensive and lash out in physical attack that's on them, vegans are not responsible for other people's emotions
when I still ate meat, one of my classmate said exactly this that she's a vegetarian because she cares about the animals but I didn't get defensive, I just didn't understand, she didn't elaborate but if she'd explain it would probably make me self-reflect instead of attacking her
You use animal products...no need to make things up.