The Batman's Joker Problem | Video Essay
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- 🎬 The Batman's Joker Problem! In this FIlmSpeak video essay we discuss the new Joker deleted scene from The Batman and why it speaks to a larger problem with the joker.
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Matt Reeves recently released the long awaited Joker deleted scene from The Batman where we see Barry Keoghan Joker in all his...glory? Well, not really. For as incredible of an actor as Barry Keoghan is (go watch Calm with Horses, Killing of the Sacred Deer), his Joker might be my least favorite and truthfully speaks to a larger problem I have with how the Joker's been treated by WB and DC since Heath Ledger's once in a lifetime portrayal in The Dark Knight. Most every iteration since The Dark Knight has been an attempt to recapture the magic of that performance, play into the "crazy," faux existentialism that's become grossly maligned with the character. The point of the Joker isn't his sanity, it's what he represents, what he has to say about Batman, Gotham, our culture. Somewhere along the way whether it was Jared Leto's awful Joker or Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, the true essence of the Joker got lost. Barry Keoghan's Joker is just the latest in a long line. Griffin (@griffschiller) discusses The Huge Problem with The Joker and why The Batman Joker deleted scene is bad. Enjoy!
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Batman ventures into Gotham City's underworld when a sadistic killer leaves behind a trail of cryptic clues. As the evidence begins to lead closer to home and the scale of the perpetrator's plans become clear, he must forge new relationships, unmask the culprit and bring justice to the abuse of power and corruption that has long plagued the metropolis. The Batman is written and directed by Matt Reeves and stars, Robert Pattinson; Zoë Kravitz; Paul Dano; Jeffrey Wright; John Turturro; Peter Sarsgaard; Andy Serkis; Colin Farrell; Barry Keoghan.
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What did YOU think of The Batman's Joker Deleted Scene?? Are you all in on this take on The Joker? Comment below 🤡
It's so good but I like Joaquin Phoenix because they doing a mentality illness of Joker but the dark knight joker is cool but it's not perfect to be a joker...many variant of joker try to explore the joker different characters....do you read comics is yes you see the inspiration of joker from the batman if not I don't want to say but this your interpretation
The greatest villain of all time needs a break.
Absolutely love it. Great acting. I agree with the scene being cut from the film, it wouldn’t have meshed well, however I’m really digging this Joker. I get some people are burnt out, it is what it is I suppose.
It was great, you can't have the Batman without the Joker eventually, he's integral to Batman and Gotham as a whole. He's the Darth Vader of Batman, the producers and director would be foolish not to include him eventually. The real question is why do so many people have a problem with the character? Maybe watch less Joker related media if your burnt out, idk or keep torturing yourself like fuck. Hes the most popular villian and polls don't lie. When people tell me they hate the Joker character, i honestly question whether their even a Batman fan
My counter argument- Just to make its clear you are the allowed to have your own opinion
But the with this video problem is not the joker is a over played character yes I agree it would be cool to final have a Batman who faces someone else but since Heath ledger Joker other actors and writers and actors should have the freedom to make their own unique Joker despite the fact the actor has played similar roles and if they want to draw inspiration from Heath Ledgers joker.Also that is weird when Film Speak said: Barry is to young but if you remember Heath lager was still kinda young when he played the joker. Another problem FilmSpeak doesn’t say is there is nothing alike between Heath Ledgers joker and Joaquin Phoenix’s joker because Joaquin Phoenix does violence out of emotion and Heath Ledgers joker is a smart strategic thinker witch makes Joaquins joker interesting and so great and with the addition seeing the story though his POV and Barry’s joker is scariest looking and it shows how you would act and look if you fell in acid
Keoghan's Joker never said anything about "society", or even himself directly. He was solely focused the Riddler, but more importantly, Batman. That's what I liked about it. He never attempts to make any statements about nihilism, anarchism, or any other cliché existential talking points. I got the feeling that the new Joker is in it purely for his own sick amusement. He's just a psychopath and a sadist with a wicked sense of humor. That's barebones Joker.
I mean, that's usually all Joker is ever about. He talks about goal sometimes, depending on the writer, but it's always just a thin excuse for the fact that he just does things because he can.
That would be a great Joker.
I'm kinda over villains making direct references to society being responsible for their actions and it being anything other than a terrible excuse. Bruh you're a supervillain, in the comics Joker just wants to fuck with Batman and rob banks. Penguin just wants respect and to rob banks, Two-face just has a duality obsession and wants to rob banks, Riddler just wants to outsmart Batman and rob banks, you get the picture their clear mental health problems can be tragic and sad, but it's never a good reason for what they do. I can deal with the latest Riddler because he's still a self absorbed egomaniac more interested in impressing people with his smarts, and something like Ledgers Joker was still mainly obsessed with one upping Batman.
@Kimani Robinson I couldn't agree more
@@Spaced92 Is mental health for problems are the reason Face does it Harvey just wants to be your district Attorney big bad harv wants to rob banks
Strongly, strongly disagree about the critiques on Joaquins Joker.
They made him uncanny, relatable, and layered in a way not done before, becoming an entity on itself outside the entire Batman universe, completely putting any other Jokers aside.
Generally speaking if you wanna stay somewhat true to the comics there is very little you can do in terms of variety in terms of the Joker as a villain opposed to Batman as a protagonist.
Thats why after Heaths version its been hit or miss when it comes to reinventing that wheel.
The deleted scene indeed didnt add much to the Batman, but I liked his makeup quiet a lot. If they could utilize his appearance in the right way it can become a unique part of the narrative that has not been done before.
Joker isn't meant to be relatable though, he's meant to be a sadist who just wants to destroy anything.
@@Rizwaan122 didn't you heard video every writer am actor make their joker different
@@Rizwaan122 Thats the nutshell of the Joker, but the ''fuse'' can be anything the writer wants it to be. Todd Phillips decided to make Joaquin Phoenix relatable as a Joker and did a great job with it.
Also, there is at least one moment when Phoenix’s Joker is funny, like when he punches the punch clock
It added more then people noticed. It solidified what Patton was portraying. He's tormented. The Joker played with him here. He mind fucked him and it was great.
I’ve never disagreed more then the statement of “joquean was trying to hard” his joker was more about the illness and the uncomfortableness of it so I think he nailed it perfectly.
He did. It was definitely oscar worthy.
Yeah, honestly my only criticism for Joaquin Phoneix's Joker is that he's so unlike the traditional character. Comics Joker and most interpretations are smart and planning, but comes out as crazy and chaotic, being an agent to chaos as Heath Ledge would say. Joaquin Phoenix is totally different, he's damaged by society and literally doesn't have a plan. He intended to commit suicide in the final act but ended up shooting the Murray and unintentionally caused a riot.
When a solo Joker film was announced in 2016 with the state of DC films at the time due to the impatience and greed of Warner Bros I was against it until Joaquin was revealed as the new Joker and then I knew it would be worth a watch. Joaquin is my favourite actor and the very best of his generation in my humble opinion because he is very dedicated to his craft. He cares more about the art of the project he's doing than the money. That's why the MCU weren't able to land him for Doctor Strange and other roles. A general DC film couldn't have landed him either. He's not a franchise guy. He said before Joker "They" as in this genre should do a smaller budget character piece on one of the villains. Sadly, Joker's stunning success wasn't enough to get the DC Black label green lit but fortunately Todd Phillips was able to create the vision Phoenix was talking about. A multi million dollar franchise name and character in a smaller budget art house character study. I completely agree. He played a mentally ill man living in a city and living a life where no matter how hard he tries he keeps getting pushed to the brink. We only see glimpses of the Joker he'll be throughout as Arthur doesn't completely embrace the freedom that persona gives him until the final act. I think everything about the film is a work of art while understanding why some wouldn't like it but the most agreed upon thing is Joaquin is phenomenal like in every role he plays. They may be very different potrayals but Heath and Joaquin will never be beaten in my eyes. Again, it's just my opinion. I think we have more terrific Joker performances to look forward to but I can't see the respective performances of Ledger and Joaquin ever being matched
It’s a shame too since if you remove all his takes on Phoenix I’d agree with this video 100%. It really feels like he’s not fully looking into it.
He really played the character well
The Lego joker is great. He's so fun and campy. He doesn't take anything seriously but he's still obsessed with Batman. A Lego Batman who suits him perfectly in how self aware but still serious he is. I don't know how to explain it well but Lego Batman and Joker are great and I'll stand by that. It's more than far from being the worst portrayal a.k.a Jared Leto. It's fun to watch as it's own thing. I'm glad it exists.
agreed
Agreed
Agreed
I'm with you on that!
Agreed
i don't think we can say that barry is trying to imitate anyone just from a 5 minute scene, we gotta see more, then judge it
Yeah imo it's kind of dumb to make assumptions out of such a molehill
@@komos3719 yeah
Yeah Just 5 MINUTES
Is just enough. And all of you who agreed with this version already have an opinion.
@@salvus608 What? LMAOOO
And at the very least we already know he has a unique laugh which is something
Oh what a terrible, closed-minded take on Phoenix's Joker you have! His Joker cannot be compared to that of the comics, it's a WHOLE different approach to the character, that's rather obvious
and yet he complains that this joker is also somehow a copy to previous versions, that its not original enough lol. I feel like this guy is not even listening to his own takes
"His Joker cannot be compared to that of the comics, it's a WHOLE different approach to the character, that's rather obvious"
So it's not the Joker. Which it wasn't. It was another character entirely that was shoehorned into the Batman universe. Also, it's ok to disagree with someone without being an asshole. Don't be so fragile.
What's the like-dislike ratio for this video?
@@kabardino1337 9.7K vs 13K
@@orqg5000 😐
The Joker looked like that in the deleted scene because he fell into a pool of acid.... I thought his performance was great. The scene sort of told too much though, so I'm glad it was cut. I like the straight-forward direction that're going with for the villains in The Batman. Penguin is just a thug, Catwoman is just a thief, Riddler is some insane loser, Joker is just a psychopath.
barry's joker has a congenital disease that disfigured his face into a permanent smile pretty much since birth, no pool of acid was involved, there's an interview with matt reeves where he states this
@@Jesse-ho5xz wanna explain the hair loss, marks all over the body, and messed up hands?
A rough first year lol
@@ElementBruv Batman fucked him up? Seems pretty obvious
@@fun13ucket Batman gave him chemical burns?
Mark Hamill is still the greatest Joker actor of all time. The old timey transatlantic accent and his laugh. The BEST joker laugh of all time.
No it’s not
Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are the best duo!
@@nemezio9495 Were😔
It's insane they use de-aging tech on mark hamill for skywalker and not the joker
@@coreywinter8716 because he doesnt act as the joker...? he voices it how are they gonna deage a cartoon. and even IF mark did visually act for the joker. they wouldnt need to deage him as joker is made to look ugly and horrific. so realistically the older the better
This video may as well have been called “why every joker is shite unless it’s Heath ledger” give Barry a break you’ve had barley 5 minutes of his interpretation.
Tried to hard to be like Heath
@@KD-yb4xu and that’s bad? It worked
@@sunnex474 Something more original would've been more refreshing. Thats why Heath was so good because it was NOTHING like any joker before him. This sounds like a cheap imitation. Hope I'm wrong
@@KD-yb4xu Or maybe Heath’s Joker was a perfect portrayal of the character? And Barry’s take will take inspiration from that but have him focus more on causing chaos for the sake of Batman instead of the calculated anarchy to corrupt Gotham like Heath’s Joker.
@@KD-yb4xu get off his dick jesus… if the actor takes inspiration off of heath hes a copy. if they act like their own joker then hes not as good as heath. make up yall minds
I don’t disagree with most of these points but we’re comparing a full film ( that probably had the best takes cherry picked from a bunch ) vs a 5 minute deleted clip and using that to criticize or praise Barry. I think it’s very early to crown or shit on this new take with such passion.
Agreed, while I do really love this interpretation, I personally disagree with the comment on overcompensating with his disfigurement so it's part of his character regardless. After analyzing the scene a few more times I can agree there wasn't much his Joker offered other than the random chuckles & Ledger inspired voice there wasn't much about his character & story. Also didn't like how he basically spoiled both Batman and Riddler's character development. I however did love his back and forth with the Bat himself, their dialogue feels so smooth. They bounce off one another really well especially with this version of Batman who is more straight to the point than we've seen any other interpretation. Still, this gives me hope to see him again even if it's only in this Silence of the Lambs style scene in the future. Who knows if they make him less grotesque or double down on it, it's only a deleted scene so they could make changes to his appearance should he return.
agreed. this just feels like a video to shock people tbh
"new joker is bad" gets clicks I guess
@@jdavidmoreiraify Not to mention OP is using a bad shot with blown up colours as the thumbnail, just to draw more eyeballs.
I agree if anything this was like a demo of what a Joker in this universe could be, but definitely not what he would be.
@@jdavidmoreiraify he's not saying that new joker is shit for clicks he explains how Barry is a good actor and they need to let him be in control
I wanna be honest.
This is the first video of yours I've seen and the first 7 minutes talking about how every Joker since Jack and Heath has been the same feels more like a personal opinion rather than anything factual. Restating the same statement over and over I thought you'd have a previous video establishing this point or maybe it's in a bunch of tweets I don't care to look up. Either way, I couldn't feel more disconnected with this video simply because you're SAYING each one is boring, tryhard and the same, but what I'm SEEING are wildly different interpretations of the same character. I think I can somewhat understand the oversaturation of the Joker and his popularity, but that's about it.
Well said I agree
Yeah, I don't know where he's getting joaquin and the new joker are somehow copying heath. I guess the newest one has a vaguely similar voice, but Joaquin was a totally different interpretation than I've ever seen of the character.
Heath did a great job at being a quintessential comic book based action movie villain, with a little social commentary thrown in. Joaquin was a very grounded depiction of what it takes to break someone who might never have been dangerous.
The new one looks like more of a thriller style villain. More interested in trying to undermine Batman's moral foundation... from the very little we have to go on.
COMPLETELY AGREE! My dude
fr he keeps repeating himself and reusing words, it doesn't feel like a video essay tbh
He seems to be in the same group of people who really cant make up their minds.
People want something new and they get 3 wildly different jokers, Pheonix's and Leto's SS and Snyder film Joker. Pheonix's was received a lot better than Letos but it still had mixed review...because it wasn't 'the Joker.' People instantly started comparing it to Heaths and making claims about what the joker should be and what it isn't.
Ok well then how about this new 2022 Joker, seems different but not to the extreme as Leto's or maybe even pheonixs...and yet people complain its too much of a copy of Heaths😐 even though we literally have only seen a 5 minutes deleted scene and barely anything from the ending. I dont even see it as a copy of heaths personally.
I agree with most of what you said, we have a joker fatigue at this point. However, Phoenix's joker is completely different and original, and he really was joker for about 15 minutes in that movie. But he was still completely different from Ledger's and everyone else, his was so original I would say!
Another Riddler? The motivation of characters is a bit same. We need Joker from the animated series. That character chemistry was on another level.
@@johnnybravo5969 I'd love a Joker who's basically Hamill's. make as dark as you want, but at least have him be a little silly :(
Yeah, for most Batman fans, Joker fatigue is probably what a lot of people are going through. However, I would also argue that a lot of audiences are also going through superhero fatigue in general (enough so that series like The Boys are great because they do a lot of modern subversions of the superhero genre, similar to how Alan Moore did with the Watchman at a previous time when superhero fever was seemingly everywhere).
exactly!
I do see your point, although I gotta disagree with you I thought Joaquins joker was a very different take on the character!
Honestly there’s no comparison to either or . he didn’t try to be heath ledger at all really. just a broken man roped into insanity but calmly accepting that it’s where he is now and embracing it. while Jared’s and Barry are trying too hard to be well “ooo I’m just crazy ooooo I like murder and doing these quirky crazy people things” but not even delving into a character besides that just a crazy crack addict
This
@@loraleivinyard2843 The First time i saw Barry's joker, I thought that this one was gonna be more whimsy like the arkham games' Joker or at least closer. But the makeup might be too much. It seems like Barry's Joker likes to play with batman. But it was 5 min. I hope the next film the joker stays in the shadows, like a puppet master pulling the strings.
Yeah same I dont get the comparison draw between Joaquin and Ledgers Joker, they are totally different.
Trash doesn't equal different. Boring movie trash interpretation... that's facts. Nothing like the joker didn't look like him either. I'd take Leto over that dumpster fire
I think this scene felt much more natural than the scene in the theatrical release. I really like how this Joker is essentially a master manipulator. He’s very analytical, and he can manipulate Batman easily. I agree that Joker is being forced into way too much media, but I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t love Barry’s performance here. It made perfect sense to me that Bruce would go to another serial killer to profile riddler, and the shift of the power dynamic in this scene built so much tension. Joker felt like a threat behind 2 inches of protective glass and I love that idea. Matt reeves’ vision for these characters are just so compelling, and I can’t wait to see what comes next for these characters.
agreed, i liked his portrayal. This video is interesting, but i dont agree with his entire take.
@@kingcrustytut7544 I do agree that they need to stop the joker train and give other characters a chance on the silver screen though.
@@thatjoshwright5577 true, but joker could always remain a looming figure in the background tho, cause he is too much of a fan favourite villan for batman
I think there are interesting elements in both scenes, but both scenes really dragged and overstayed their welcome. The main issue being that the makeup is way too heavy and disgusting, as result you can't show him - and the result is that you end up with very limited options for shots to include. the dialogue is on the nose and could have been trimmed down as well.
What I liked in the post edit scene that inexplicably was out before the credits was how much joker understood riddler's deal and vibed with him. similarly in the deleted scene, he quickly points out that it's a very personal quest (which I find at the same time smart and cowardly, given how tied together incel types and neonazi terrorists are IRL, and how easy it is to draw parallels between those and The batman's riddler)
*I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*
Ever since heath ledger. Apparently that’s the only joker allowed. Because every other joker since has been dissed for “trying to hard” or “copying ledger” like just stop tryna bring ledger into everything. There’s no copying going on here.
Joaquin’s version of the Joker wasn’t meaning to say “He wants to be heard”. It has a very different take to the whole “we live in a society”.
Nope
nah, literally that film could've been titled anything else, no need to even put the Joker there. Hell, a clockwork orange, already did that. And it I agree, Heath's Joker was so good it's kinda swallowed the creativity of what the Joker can be. The comic book Joker by Scott Snyder's run on Batman is a perfect example.
like what for example?
How can you say barry is a “bad joker” based off 5 minutes of screen time(maybe longer)?
How can thousands of people say it's good?
Go watch the "im tha joker baby" video and tell me if it's good acting or not. Do you need 2 more hours to decide?
maybe cuz it was a horrible 5 minutes? lol
@@sirjordancarter Joker Baby is literally the best interpretation of the character and if you disagree you aren't really a gigachad
Agreed with most said here, except pretty much everything to do with Joquean’s version. His version was the furthest thing from copying what came before, to the point where he was barely even “The Joker”. Say what you like about the interpretation, but he was not rehashing any previous version.
Totally agree with you
Yeah he was copying Taxi Driver instead lmfao
@Javier Mendoza The movie is very clearly inspired by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy to the point where I almost want to say its an homage. I wasn't saying the characters are EXACTLY the same but it's clear what they were trying to do.
@@DaDinkler it's definitely an homage and tbh I wish more movies would homage classic or older Hollywood genres and films. It was a very enjoyable watch as a fan of the Batman characters and Scorcese's filmmaking.
@@DonkeyBoyVids Really as a fan of the Batman characters? It has almost nothing to do with Batman it was like an homage to those movies but with a crappy Gotham paint job over it.
I always thought they should aim more for Mark Hamil's Joker. Like the Arkham games give an almost perfect template for a comic accurate joker. Granted casting for the joker has always been extremely difficult.
considering the comics almost 100 year history there is clearly no single comic accurate represetation and given the film and shows influence on the comics any adaptation will eventually be comic accurate.
I think everyone’s ignoring the best anime to joker which is Zach Galifianakis in the Lego Batman movie I feel like that was such a fun take and it was very refreshing
Mark hamil is done playing joker
I’m just jokered out dude… there’s been so many jokers and there’s so many villains who need the on screen representation. LIKE PROFESSOR PYG WOULD BE SO GOOD IN THIS UNIVERSE.
Hahahaha Professor Pyg would SLAP
or mad hatter!
@Paraone Ngatai Fr.
@@termlesstooth TRUE
dudeee the perfect crime and mystery hell yeah
What I liked about the Gotham Joker was that Jerome was originally thought to be a victim, but the instant he gave that look, you knew that he was the Joker, before he even spoke, and that he was responsible for the tragedies that surrounded him.
yeah he did such a good job thru his mannerisms you didn't even have to know the whole context to realise that he was in some kind of way responsible for certain things. i really liked his portrayal i wish we could have seen him play the joker (with DC s approval and all yk)
Phoenix did an amazing job at Joker and did not “try too hard”. On top of that, you said that maybe it was the writing that let him down. No. This movie was amazing and there is no way you can convince me other wise.
Literally one of the most unimpressive and uninspired movies I’ve seen, so poorly written and so disappointed that “woke” culture keeps hyping it without real knowledge of film making
@@goc43agp The irony that you are talking about people not knowing anything about film making, while you yourself clearly don’t understand what was unique about The Joker and what made it a great film 😂 There’s a reason Phoenix won the Oscar and why it was nominated for best picture and a bunch of other categories. But you probably think you know better than actual film makers and the academy lol.
@@dave-ed2vd yeah it was nominated for the same reason black panther was nominated and if we’re gonna talk about the academy as a reference let me remind you that rami also won for his fairytale portrayal of the shitty movie bohemian rhapsody and also Coda and green book are Oscar winning films, there’s a reason the Oscars are about celebrities and drama and hold no prestige in comparison to other film awards festivals, Joaquin is a great actor, but that wasn’t even top ten Joaquin Phoenix performance
@Javier Mendoza I don’t call out “woke culture” just for trying to hate on it, what I mean is not because it’s fanbase say it’s good or profound it actually is
@@goc43agp Ok this all makes sense now. You just have shit taste 😂🤷🏼♂️
I watched the 1989 "Batman" the other day for the first time in years. Jack Nicholson was SO DAMN GREAT as the Joker because he was really fun, and funny. I'd totally forgotten how enjoyable a FUN Joker could be. It wouldn't work in every Batman film of course, but he was as perfect as Ledger for the film he was in.
Congrats on ticking everyone off regarding Joaquin's iteration of Joker, pal. I agree with everyone else in that Joker was VERY well-written, and was absolutely a perfect film to open discussion on society's treatment of mental health patients.
@Mr. M A comic accurate Joker, no. But a bad Joker in general? I'd disagree. I think the biggest thing that differentiated Arthur from other Jokers was that he wasn't a psychopath. He had empathy toward those he cared about, and only attacked those who had wrong him. This isn't to justify his actions, but it was a stark contrast to the other Jokers who would kill people on a whim.
I personally loved and appreciated this version of Joker, and love the idea of his laugh being a psychological disorder. That being said, I can see why some people don't like him. I guess it would be similar to a Batman who was willing to kill, which obviously would be a controversial take on the character.
Joker was boring as hell.
@@akjackson009 tell that to the top 250 films of all time list its firmly planted in
@@akjackson009 ikr
That list didn’t consider what is boring to me and that is clearly the movie Joker.
He complains that Joker is too "PREDICTABLE" and then complains when Joaquin Phoenix Joker sits in the fridge because "what purpose does this serve??"
Cameron Monaghan's performance as the Joker(s) is so underrated, it's my second favorite next to Heath Ledger. It might not have a deep message or have a lot to say about society but it's just so well done it doesn't rly have to. Cameron is such an incredible actor and it's rly impressive that he's able to pull off not one, but two performances. Jerome is just so much fun he's hard to not love while Jeremiah is genuinely menacing, without needing over the top makeup or shock factor.
Agreed.
Underrated means copy all the versions from the comics and movies??
@@salvus608 That's literally not what I said and it's the same character so things are obviously gonna cross over and be similar otherwise it would be a different character?
The problem with “deep” messages is their aren’t even deep because the writers are hacks.
Phoenix joker can be described as people mean and bad society bad mental illness is bad . It’s really not that deep. Especially since the best they can come up with for his personality traits is, of his laugh is a disease, of he was a clown as a profession , like wow . Fuck off
The idea of Jared Leto's Joker being a modern gangster could have been a really unique take if they had actually portrayed it that way
They really half assed that one ehh?
Imagine if they just had a light hearted joker, no edgy philosophy. Like he acts like Todd from breaking bad, is pleasant, friendly, and just tries to make people laugh, but has no sense of humanity. Not in a self pity way like Phoenix, where he can’t understand people, just in a way where he is ruthless and has no guilt. I guess kind of like he was in Dark Knight Returns.
Having a charming and warm Joker who is devoid of empathy would be a good foil to the new batman who is awkward and cold but deeply cares about people.
Even Jack Nicholson's portrayal of Joker shared a lot of similarities with the idea of Joker being somewhat like a gangster. Although with clear differences. So it's not as if the concept doesn't work. That film simply didn't get it right
*I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*
Smh exactly my thought, wish he would’ve just been like the og gangsta joker from the comics. Less maniac and more crime crowned prince
Idk how you see the Batmen as being sufficiently different but think Joaquin is ripping off Heath.
Yeah, that made no fucking sense
Honestly
You cant throw around "edgelord" and "tryhard" as a justification for a moment in film being bad. Of course all jokers are the same to an extent (they are all literally the same character). I get that there are different interpretations, however there is still some similarities all jokers are bound to share. You also miss the context of your criticism almost completely: The Joker shown in The Batman is a young version of the character who has not blossomed into Pattinson's most important villain. Your take on the copying Ledger's makeup is down right just silly--its makeup and its bound to get messy. I understand that it can be tiring to see the same character brought on every film, however the Joker is without a doubt an essential addition to a Batman lore. The director wants to plant seeds into his new world of villains, that is why the Penguin is in the film--to plant a seed for a future film. You shift the blame over to Warner Bros. But they have been loose with the direction of the film and leaving it up to Matt Reeves. This film was not like a marvel movie with specific cameos and crossovers planned, this seems to be all Reeves.
I couldn't agree more
i couldn't have said it better myself dude, good job
frrr this whole vid is just comparing one joker to the rest acting like there can only be one good perspective of the character
good take
Yeah honestly it just seems like he had a vendetta against this new joker if it wasn’t Heath ledger you know and I’d love to see different takes and adoration‘s of the characters and just seeing what directors and actors do with a character because honestly my favorite take of the character is probably Joaquin phoenix and he’s not even really the joker because he’s just more of a mentally ill man that’s on the breaking point
I think the fridge moment in Joker is a way to symbolise suicide. Back in the day those fridges were only able to be opened from the outside, so getting inside one was literally deadly.
I faintly remember the scene to be vague on whether it was real or not, but i guess thats not the point. It still symbolises Arthur's state of mind.
I personally really liked the Joker's role in this film, specially in the deleted scene, It gives you a glimpse of how much respect Batman has for him asking for his opinion, like he aknowledges the talent behind his enemy, also loved how much the Joker can read right through Batman's mind, like he knows him better than him. To me it was pretty cool
I wouldn’t say respect more like he knows that hes faced worst than the Riddler so he sees the joker as a valuable asset but respecting him yeah there’s no way lol
@@Ghost_-nz5dy I mean he respects his abilities, of course he doesnt agree with him
@@Ghost_-nz5dy he respects his intellect, not what he chooses to do with it.
I firmly believe you haven't watched Joker (2019) There is simply no way one could watch that and think it's similar to Heath Ledger.
I don’t have a problem with the performance, I just think the design is way over the top, and distracts from the acting. Matt Reeves wanted him to be someone struggling with a disease where he can’t stop smiling, and that was really interesting to me. Just Barry Keogan with a permanent smile would be really unsettling. I don’t see why they also felt the need to add so much other types of deformities and scarring that seems like it’s trying too hard. Sometimes less is more.
the joker literally falls in burning acid of course his skin is going to be burnt up and he will be missing hair. Him becoming the joker was recent in this universe so he will still have signs of that it wasn't overdone it was accurate to the start of joker.
@@mcgrewfamily Joker’s origin has been changed many times. Matt Reeves has said that this interpretation of the Joker was born with the smile, not the vat of acid. If you can find a quote that contradicts this, then great. But even still, I think the design is overdone. Just my opinion.
Yeah the design is just TOO much. Like let the actor shape the performance, not the prosthetics.
@@alexlazzerly3677 I literally said everything was due to acid but the smile💀
@@mcgrewfamily Oh I didn’t know Reeves confirmed that he fell in acid too. Either way my original point is I don’t think falling in acid was necessary at all. Just like Heart Ledger’s joker was just a dude in war paint, Barry Keoghan with a permanent smile and some makeup would have been creepy enough.
Barry is gonna be a great Joker, he is an underrated actor and I feel definitely has the acting chops, also people apparently hate his laugh but tbh I actually liked it 🤷♂️
Me too!
Far better than Leto's Blackadder laugh!
I disagree, respectfully of course. I’ve only seen him in a few films and although he’s not a bad actor by any means I don’t see him as a good Joker and to be honest that’s not even his fault.
That’s going to be majorly in part to the idea people and makeup behind the scenes.
I’m hoping I’m wrong because a joker that just does things because is great but the backstory so far is weak in his motivations for causing trouble.
The look for sure is as bad as Leto’s which was atrocious (again, not the actors fault) so here’s hoping they change some things and especially the makeup/costume.
I wouldn’t mind him staying behind bars the whole time honestly so we don’t have to witness a bad Joker moment outside of this scene.
@@Poket_gmr I know what you mean.
The way those films were written stagnate quite a bit, and so the characters don't work as well as they should.
@@BlueGuise9 Absolutely! I will do my best to remain hopeful though because so far I've liked almost everything else about this franchise from the one movie. Cheers!!!
It’s hard comparing a character that gets a butt load of screen time against Keegan’s who had like 2 minutes, just wait and see and then we can compare
Joaquim Phoenix's Joker was truly amazing. It was the one that felt most human and relatable. It really put a different spin on the character, the only version worth watching since Ledger's.
I thought his Joker was cringy
That was not the joker
It was an awesome movie but, yeah, that was not anything even close to the Joker
That movie was edge lord garbage.
@@danzigvssartre FINALLY, someone with taste. That movie was TRASH.
Joaquin phoenix was the farthest thing from the actual Joker character even more so than Leto. He just had a better movie
Thank you, someone in this comment section is literally trying to tell me Joaquin was 100% accurate to the Joker💀
Joaquin was an amazing Joker, but his movie is shockingly bad
@@Inigo004 I disagree he was the furthest thing from the Joker but his performance, character and movie is amazing. Its just not... Joker
Agreed. I think he could be more of a precursor to Joker than the actual Joker….the movie was good but I don’t see him as the actual Joker.
@@jayrichard2970 even then Gotham did the precursor Joker better than Joaquin's movie did. Again Joaquin's perfomance and character in the movie he is in is great.
The way Tony Dalton played Lalo Salamanca in BCS would have been a really refreshing take on Joker.
Always smiling, charming, and friendly, making him difficult to read. Throwing off people's guard with his demeanour not with just his clownish appearance.
But cold, calculating, and void of any empathy or emotions underneath the facade.
Lalo Salamanca is one of the only late game antagonists iv truly enjoyed as much as early antagonists in just about anything
I'm glad to see most of the comments disagree with most of what you said. Throwing Cameron Monaghan, Barry Keoghan, Joaquin Phoenix and Jared Leto all on the same boat, implying that they're all copying Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger seems odd. Fans are not "Joker'd out" just because there have been many portrayals in recent years. There's been that many Jokers because we love the Joker. And we love Batman, that's why in the same amount of time, the Batman has been played by Christian Bale, Will Arnett, David Mazouz, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson and Kevin Conroy (among others). You say that Keoghan's Joker was predictable, but I certainly didn't predict that the next time I saw the Joker in an interrogation scene, it'd be Batman seeking help from the Joker, Mindhunter style. If the Joker was truly unpredictable in each iteration, wouldn't that become predictable? Is it predictable because we predict that the Joker will be crazy or mentally damaged? Is it predictable that the Joker will try to get under Batman's skin? Isn't that who the Joker is? If we expect Batman to always thwart Joker's attempt to seduce him to the dark side each time, wouldn't the Batman become predictable too, and "boring" as you said? Moreover, you've fallen into the same trap that every single critic falls into whenever this type of content gets out, which is to film a nearly half-hour long video deconstructing a five-minute deleted scene. Not that you'd read this far, but maybe you should sit the next Batman film out if it includes the Joker?
That's okay everybody doesn't have to agree with him
@@inyourwifesas1033 Ok. but almost nobody does. This is just plan stupid.
The problem with the joker is that there is no problem, everyone has an opinion about how the character should be portrayed and who he should be portrayed by, I mean come on, many of you hated heath ledger when he was cast and hated his look, then the film came out and all of a sudden everyone loves heath. This scene is a perfect representation of how Batman and Joker are not just plain rivals but more peers. They’re two sides of the same coin. And yes I’m all for a Joker that has Hannibal Lecter, Freddy Krueger, and Pennywise aspects to him, makes him look and act more frightening.
Every point you made is exactly why I thought Leto’s scene in ZSJL was so great. He wasn’t just trying to be in-your-face crazy like in Suicide Squad. Instead he was actually taunting Batman, genuinely getting under his skin and calling him out on his bullshit. Its honestly felt like such a breath of fresh air compared to every other Batman-Joker interaction because it something different from “We live in an society” (which is ironic since he actually says that line lol).
Sometimes a character is defined by the actor who plays it.
Heath Ledger defined the Joker… in The Dark Knight. He fits into the Gotham that film portrays. He runs alongside the powerful corporations Nolan typically depicts in his films, and he is the perfect counter-balance. He causes the scales to top.
Joquean Phoenix defined the Joker… in Joker. He fits into the Gotham that film portrays. He lives in a world where half the citizens are seen as lesser and unworthy. The film puts the viewer in the position of these citizens while showcasing those who are oblivious to it, such as The Wayne’s, and Murray.
Jack Nicholson defines the Joker… in Batman. He fits into the Gotham that film portrays. That world is comical, it’s unrealistic. It’s a cartoonishly glum and colourless city, only defined by the people who live in it, and those who live in it typically blend into the background. But the Joker stands out, he brings colour to the city to contrast Batman bringing darkness to the city, each representing Hope and Fear in spectacularly opposing ways.
Each version of Gotham, and subsequently their Joker, is defined entirely by how their chosen actor plays them, especially contrasted within the City they exist in.
That’s why Barry Keoghan’s Joker is yet to be defined, because all we’ve seen of him is from behind a pane of glass… but his performance is already striking enough that we can take a jab at how he’s going to contrast the bleak, overcrowded Gotham that we saw in The Batman. That’s why I have immense hope for him.
(Jared Leto’s Joker is colourful and crazy… within a colourful and crazy world. He doesn’t contrast, he doesn’t make a statement the *society* he exists within. He is simply another card in the deck instead of someone defining Gotham City and contrasting it’s components. He is ultimately empty as an antagonist. But we all knew that…)
Amazing points. it’s a shame Jared Leto couldn’t have played a type of joker closer to the his Snyder cut version in that film. It was a far superior performance and direction even though we only got ~5 minutes of it
Well put, I'm hopeful for Barry's Joker and the contrast he will provide. I think Ledgers focused on understanding people and their killer instincts when pushed to it. I think Keogans way more focuses on Batman and that he understands HIM. I think this is going to be a much more intimate joker in a most unsettling way, and I'm here for it.
I have to say that the deleted scene was really good and actually got me excited. This is going to be a very good joker as the design first of all is more twisted, more acidic. I also like his voice and laugh because it feels uneasy. Not scary more uneasy. The creepy part of this joker is his appearance. I believe Barry has big potential in the role.
agreed with almost everything.
i actually dislike the appearence. for me its the only thing that's "try-hardy".
@@zeynaviegas Well to each their own. At least its a fresh new design that we did not get before.
@@kingvidster5637 It's not exactly fresh, Gotham has already done the deformed Joker look with Jerome and I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the inspiration for this version of the Joker.
I dont think the joker will be the next villain. I think he will be the last.
Creepy is uncanny valley, you don't need to be deformed to do that. You can be disturbed listening to a serial killer fondly or nonchalantly recall a murder. They are so calm while going into details about how annoyed they were with a victim for scratching them as they fought for their life. You can have the Joker give a laugh at an inappropriate time or thing. Ledger's Joker stabbed a mobster in the eye with a pencil, while calling it a magic trick and making a pun, in front of the mob. For a moment you think he might actually do a magic trick before he actually stabs the guy as the Joker is a clown, but then he breaks this convention by doing a violent act with something that is usually fun and light-hearted. It's not only the surprise, but taking a silly predictable act and distorting it. This scene is shot with good lighting, is fast, no blood, and no screaming from the person who just got stabbed. To the Joker it's as if it didn't even happen, and he just did it to get the mobs attention. Now, imagine instead you had the Joker laugh maniacally as that guy rolled around on the floor screaming before being carted off. Would that actually add anything, or would it distract from the rest of the scene? I think it would take focus away from the Joker and the absurdity, and only highlight the pain he caused and his evilness. The Joker is more than this "evil", you don't need it to be darker and more twisted for it to be better.
"This is the problem with casting a young actor who's enamored with Heath Ledger's joker"
Koeghen didn't even audition for the joker though, he auditioned for the riddler...
You're video's are either hit or miss for me... and this one is a big miss. The last scene in the movie wasn't too good. It felt forced and out of place, but that 5min deleted scene was perfect for setting up the character in this universe. Felt like a solid psychological horror movie antagonist to me.
And I couldn't disagree more with your take on Joaquin's Joker. Grounded, real, authentic, vulnerable and truly insane. Joaquin played a broken, mentaly ill man stuck in a city that couldn't care less for a man like him. Beaten and broken by the city's injustice, he found comfort in accepting the chaos that hunted is mind and became the face of a revolution led by those that were abandonned by society. A Legendary performance in one of my favorite comic book inspired movies
Yeah this guy is the real try hard
Holy W take you hit it right on the nail. Joaquin was perfect.
So you're just a hater of Joaquin's Joker and used this as a pretext to say how much you disliked it compared to Ledger's. Joaquin's version was fabulous in every way and had nothing to do with any of those two classic interpretations. And btw this new one also seems totally different in a good way.
No.. It was cringe
@@littledudefromacrossthestr5755 no it wasn't your taste is bad
@@priyanshuverma2749 the movie was god awful
@@bigbear5767 It's enough to see Joker to get your answer. Easy. Just by watching it things get crystal clear why what he says is something coming from a hater. It's a fantastic character in every way, magnificently interpreted by Phoenix. If we're debating that, we can debate if the sun is hot too.
Joaquin's Joker was great but he wasnt really the Joker was he ? Maybe that'll change in the sequel though
I think that his prosthetics actually get in the way of Barrys acting
I actually thought this joker portrayal - at least physically - is one of my favorites since Ledger (no comparison to Ledger). I'm also a fan of that actor since seeing him in "The Killing of a sacred deer" so maybe I'm biased. But that makeup job is incredible!
the killing of a sacred dear is incredible. But he's also in Eternals which is absolute garbage, so I'm still skeptical
@@greyhelmantics9678 eternals was only garbage due to writing
same
That make up job made an ugly actor who does not look like joker or have any of the right mannerisms of the joker look even uglier. And not in the correct “evil anarchist the world is ugly” way. He looks like he has down syndrome and he did a horrible shitty job at facial acting, voice acting, and acting altogether
@@Burialofagod Classic DCU characters should be CONSTANTLY reinvented with new, creative styles. Jack Nicholson was the first truly iconic character. Then Heath Ledger, whose style was vastly different than Jack's. Then we had to suffer through a few Heath copycats for the last decade. Now we finally have a NEW twist on him while still keeping the fundamentals. He's still deformed - this time they've really focused on that and made it a major thing. He's still a criminal mastermind. He's still sarcastic and antagonizing toward batman. Now he's just more monstrous and menacing looking. It sounds like you just want more repeats of past deliveries.
Funny they said the same thing about ledger in the beginning
I wouldn’t say Joaquin Phoenix is like Heath Ledger. I do agree with the rest of the video as well. The Joker needs to be more like Mark Hamill’s take on film.
I agree. Im somewhat tired of "We live in a society" type of Joker. That has never really been the message of the joker and he's always worked just fine with the Joker being just batshit crazy and that's it. I feel as though films need to focus more on the relationship between Batman and Joker rather than giving joker is own "message" if that makes sense.
At this point, we might as well have multiple Joker’s on screen at the same time. Joker No Way Home. Hamill, Nicholson, Phoenix, whoever this guy is, have em all in face paint and running some stupid gang. Include the sillier villains with them like this Riddler, Ventriloquist, Mad Hatter… that would be the only way to do Joker again that wouldnt feel trite. And dont do this until we hit movie #5, we gotta do Hugo or Pyg first
No, it shoulf just be Barry Keoghan's take. Not Heath, not Joaquin not Nicholson and not Hamill. He should do his own thing with it
@@christiancevallos9820 I don't know about the "we live in a society" take, but the whole "one bad day" and how chaos and disorder is the correct way to live philosophy from The Killing Joke is definitely one of the great modern takes on the Joker that TDK adapted so perfectly.
I honestly kinda don't wanna see anyone try to be Hamill's Joker, that's pretty much the surface level of what the Joker is. And Hamill voiced it extremely well, but I honestly wanna see different takes that still manage to be faithful to the core of the character.
@@Crow-qm7zw what you and a lot of people that use this argument seem to forget about The Killing Joke is that it’s never confirmed that this truly is Joker’s origin and it’s heavily implied that the Joker could very well just be making up a random story and that at the end of it all, the Joker doesn’t even actually care about what happened to him for him to turn out this way.
The fact that Lego joker is the best one ever since The Dark Knight is so funny to me
I respect your opinion... But you know that this version of the Joker is for Arkham Asylum series right?
Matt Reeves said in a interview that this joker it's probably not going to come out as a main villain in a movie. He's going to be a secondary character. Matt himself said that he probably would work in Hush or the Court of Owls for the sequels so....
Who the hell are the girls howls?
True
I mean, does Barry Keoghan being in or out of whatever sequels might come alter the fact that we've gotten absolutely bombarded by the Joker in the past 10 years?
@@thezachmarsh also years of many versions of the Batman. Matt Reeves it's going to explore more villains in the sequels and the hbo max shows. Yes, this a new joker. But the Joker it's a very very important character in the Batman lore. Judging this joker for only 5 minutes it's not that smart
@@thezachmarsh and you want more Batman films but 5 minutes of Joker is too much?
I'm ao looking forward to this interpretation of Joker. That deleted scene made him out as a pretty scary guy and looks like he has Leprosy or something. I wish the Joker was sidelined for awhile but if he's gonna be in there, I like this one. I feel like it felt fresh to me, idk.
Exactly
he just fell into a vat of acid so that's why he's deformed
@@grognackthedestroyer1177 we don't know that about this universes' Joker though. That's his comic origins sure but I wouldn't be surprised if these are birth defects or something
Edit: Google searching shows articles saying its a birth defect
I thought it either looked like he fell in acid(though I heard they aren't doing this story) or Batman has beat the living shit out of him so many times he's literally deformed. Or he's been caught in his own crazy stuff(has blown or cut himself up)
I agree it felt fresh without being forced/obnoxious, like Jared Leto's Joker...and very well acted
God, can you IMAGINE if in this scene, Keoghan just acted the way he did in Killing of a Sacred Deer? No try-hard, edgelord dialogue or overacting. Just the chilling performance of a young man who knows how to portray insanity without going over the top.
No doubt in my mind that performance got him this role.
Although I didn't enjoy that movie the performance of the actors in them is undeniable and if anyone could pull off a more understated yet confident Joker it would be him.
He wasn’t trying hard at all in this
Joaquin Innovated the idea of Joker thoroughly in every sense while fundamentally staying true to Jokers "structure" and it was shown in an extremely unique perspective. There's a reason he's the only other comic book character to have won an Oscar
This movie was overated, acting was solid but who really wanted to see the joker just be a normal crazy guy? Like really? My favorite chacter in DC was made into some loser psychopath with mommy issues.
He didn't stray true to the structure at all. It was a completely different villian
@@coreywinter8716 A failed stand up comedian that took simply one bad day to break him, who has a multiple choice path and is a symbol of chaos? That’s not true to the character? Lol
@@coreywinter8716 It’s literally adapting the killing joke without the vat of chemicals and it even have an adaptation of the dark knight return’s Joker. Inspirations from the most known and loved 80a Joker comics
@@coreywinter8716 let me guess, you forgot the movie was an origin which means you’re only seeing this joker barely finding the identity and not being organized yet? Idk how that doesn’t make sense to ppl, it’s an origin not a movie of a established developed joker
His opinions on Joker really earned him the clown badge ngl.
Barry’s Joker is the only Joker that actually made me feel scared, the fact that at any moment he could escape if he wanted to or that at any point he could snap at any point if he pleases
Exactly.
Cringe 😖
@@raisingthebar5766 thats you are
@@priyanshuverma2749 Say what??
I just gotta say, Cameron's version of Joker is easily one of the best things to come out of Gotham as a show
Totally agree. I couldn't finish the Gotham series and to my knowledge, the studios botched it in the later seasons, but I was utterly awestruck at Cameron's performance.
He was the best Joker in TV. Better than Leto
@@fausto412 He’s definitely not better than Hamill in BTAS.
i didn’t watch much of gotham but i thought his performance was really over the top. a big part of that was the awful soap opera writing but it’s probably the worst modern joker imo, and i actually think he’s a pretty good actor
Only good thing….
Man's complaining that actors are making the Joker too crazy and edgy when that's literally the source material 💀
He just wants to be different
@@simpelfrietje4865 how when it's literally his source material if someone makes it too different from the character it just won't be the Joker anymore and people won't like it
I'd like to see a joker ask someone to stand on a white cross on the floor, then a giant rubber anvil falls and fails to injure them and a henchman apologizes and says they couldn't afford a real anvil and then the joker just beats the henchman to death with a giant mallet and apologizes to the captive for the inconvenience and lets them go
Exactly, the comic book Joker we know and love . Fuck realism , let him have party gag items, let him have laughing fish or his trick gun that says "bang" let him have the bleached skin .
Mark Hamill is still my favorite and why i stick to animated movies when it's about Batman
@@sophiecooper1824 yeah definitely, I mean it's in the name ffs, have him give someone a trick can of nuts that's actually full of buckshot or something
Kind of confused. You said towards the end “what if they focused on the joker having the upper hand on the Batman” and then proceeded to describe exactly that in the deleted scene you were criticizing.
Also, if you did not get how The Joker was commenting on mental illness and the failure of society and institutions to help the problem…I’m not sure what you were doing when watching the movie. It was abundantly clear. So clear that I honestly never want to watch the movie again. It’s too on the nose.
Monaghan’s joker was amazing for sure, very unique and mesmerizing. His smile was spot on, creepy and rigid, like a mask.
Right, he did such a good job thru his gestures and even hsi physical appearence. I really wish he got more attention and the credit he deserves.
This is weird. I can see where you’re coming from with all these other jokers. And keep in mind opinions are great and I understand that not everyone liked Phoenix in his film, but I think you yourself in this video we’re trying to hard to come up with all these reasons about why these other jokers are bad. By bringing Phoenix into the mix which as I said before I’m fine if the film wasn’t your cup of tea. But it’s reallyyyyy hard to come to an agreeable conclusion with your points when you say Phoenix was trying to hard to be Joker. That entire movie really doesn’t remind me in anyway of Heaths or the other jokers whatsoever. His downfall into that character is extremely unique. He was playing Arthur Fleck in that movie his formation into “Joker” and the films conclusion doesn’t make me think about Heath whatsoever if we’re talking about him and his performance being the bar that has “been set”. Heath was a confident, wild, meticulous, manical joker that knew what he wanted, was sure of himself, and didn’t care what happened nor did it matter to him. Whether his plans were fulfilled he always was prepared for the moment of death or failure and nothing mattered. He was pure chaos. Phoenix was a depressing, embarrassing, non-confident, almost soul searching social reject who got to the point where the society around him to turned down a path of insanity. That’s the only time where I can see there two collisions within comparisons. Heaths Joker doesn’t care where in comparison Phoenix’s Arthur fleck gets to that same point, but his final dance on the police car with his fellow ‘clowns’ cheering around him clearly show that the feeling of success of himself and the recognition he always sought after. Sure he didn’t care about what he did or how he looked but he still cared that he was finally “seen”. That story although showing his eventual transformation into the Joker still doesn’t even feel like he turned into what most Batman fans envision as the joker. Not in the way that film ended. I mean the dude won an Oscar and the film is critically acclaimed. By both critics and fans most importantly, the fans. Opinions are opinions and everyone is entitled and I respect you not liking the film but it looks like you watched Phoenix and expected a joker performance when you completely missed the story and Phoenix’s portrayal of character we came to know as Arthur Fleck. Two wildly different stories, two wildly different “Jokers” if you wanna even call Phoenix the Joker at the conclusion of his film.
I completely agree, this guy is trying so hard to be as contrarian as possible. "Uuugh Phoenix's joker was bad, that movie was written horribly (even though its won multiple awards). why can't be go back to Jack Nicholson and Caeser Romero". I really liked Barry's performance. It is my favorite, not by a long shot. It does feel like it's sort of copying things from other jokers, especially heaths. But he takes that and makes it his own. Also, I dont know what the hell he's talking about when he says that every joker looks the same with the cracked face paint. What do you expect him to look like in a universe that's more realistic than the nolan movies. He's not gonna look like Jack Nicholson, it's too goofy. "I guess fun doesn't exist anymore". Oh yeah I love having this dark, gritty, and realistic world with reasonably realistic characters, and then this brightly dressed clown with perfectly applied make up. Does he not realize that something like that stands out. You can still have "fun" with a character without making them look like a living comic strip. The appearance of Barry's joker is something that we've never seen before, probably being one of the most realistic jokers ever.
he started with an opinion and set out to prove it
Thank you!
Joker is just a edgelord magnet
*I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*
I love it! I think he looks absolutely disturbing, and I believe Barry Keoghan will fit perfectly with this Batman's atmosphere.
I mean you're not wrong about him looking disturbing lol. I however have a problem with every new Joker interpretation trying to be edgier and darker than the last. The Joker isn't a character who looks like he's been mauled. He's someone whose skin has been bleached white, his hair green, and lips red. The truly disturbing aspect is that even though Joker looks like a clown, he's so mentally unhinged that it's horrifying. He's a witty, unpredictable, cunning, comedic, and maniacal character. I wish someone, SOMEONE, would just give the classic Joker his own interpretation.
@@X-Frog Joker was originally dropped in a vat of chemicals. Based off real life acid victims, Barry's Joker looks VERY accurate (scarring, missing hair, etc). I'd say for a realistic Joker, Barry's design nails it
@@VMadnezzYT Matt Reeves literally said in an interview that this Joker never fell in a vat of chemicals and was instead born disfigured. So nah, it’s just an unnecessary design choice.
@@bdpchamp I wouldn't call the elements of Joker's face a unnecessary design choice. After all, you did just say that Reeves retconed the Joker's backstory to chalk his facial features as a disfigurement. I'd say this design depicts that clearly. In my opinion the design fits the story and retcon well
@@VMadnezzYT you just justified the design by saying that it’s an accurate depiction of acid victims but now are justifying it by saying it’s somehow still a good decision because Matt reeves decided he be born disfigured. But what disorder/ailment/illness would cause anyone at all to look like that????
I personally, didn't love Heath's performance, I found it a bit much, but the character? Wow... I was blown away by how smart he was, how much he had calculated and understood who he was manipulating and how easily he lied to cover that knowledge up. How easily he slipped under the skin of both Bruce and Batman. My jaw was on the ground as you watched his plot unfold, it was so damn clever and I didn't feel dumb for missing things.
Wow, I'm suprised that this comment hasn't been hated on.
Ledgers joker is joker. I dont like phoenixs joker at all
Filmspeak: “I want a new joker that isn’t a lame ripoff of my not-so-obviously favorite version!”
Directors: “Here are a bunch of different takes that are not direct copies: serial killer /deformed profiler, mentally ill average joe, over-the-top crazy-“
Filmspeak: “….. listen here you little shit…”
**not to mention he’s saying he pretty much just wants another ledger** cough cough
I don't think he wants another heath rather a more serious, narcissistic, deranged but calm exterior. That's what I've taken from this but ngl it too feels surface level like i would want to know what 'fun" is
@@FrierenAza a serious, grounded Joker with political motivations is not the Joker though. He's meant to literally just be a deranged psychopath who kills because he thinks it's fun. Joker is supposed to be a chaotic puzzle piece that doesn't fit into any narrative or story that makes logical sense
@@Whispurer THIS. So many miss the point that the Joker has no clear intentions other than chaos and the attention from Batman that ensues. He isn't a deformed scary sight, he's a man that looks like a clown due to an accident, but the horror lies within his unrivaled mind. His disregard for life, unpredictability, comedic outlook/cruel sense of humor, and wits all make Joker the serious threat he is
Have never disagreed with an essay more than this.
I’m Excited to see joker as a side character who Batman goes to time to time for his perspective. A new dynamic is what we need, I feel like this series is a prelude to the joker and Batman’s historic rivalry.
To me I just don’t want to see that f*cking clown in this trilogy, at least as a main villain. I am tired of him and want them to branch out to other characters they haven’t done well (haven’t been their own villain) or at all. Examples:
- Mr. Freeze
- Poison Ivy
- Two-Face
- Scarecrow
- Mad Hatter
- Professor Pyg
- Hush
- Black Mask
- Great White
- Hugo Strange
- Anarky
- Killer Moth
- Killer Croc
I would prefer any of these over Joker, no matter what they do I still feel like I need a break to feel free of that clown. All of these villains could work well if they are willing to go out on a limb and take a chance. Joker feels like the safe, vanilla choice, and I just don’t want them to play this trilogy safe. I loved what I saw and the risks taken with riddler, and I want them to continue that with this trilogy, recreating classic villains in a unique and fun way.
Cillian Murphy was amazing as scarecrow, wtf are you talking about?
@@s66s46 Cillian Murphy was great, but he was a side villain basically just there for his toxin, he didn’t really have any character or scary things about him, it was like Beta test Scarecrow.
Many fans are all Joker'ed out at this point. I was impressed when I saw TAS and once again in 2008, but after that I've realized that there's nothing they can do with the character, nothing they can pull out of the clown box that can WOW me. Let's see something new.
Disagree I really wanna see the joker and riddler team up yes give other villains a chance but we should see joker at some point in movies if not this trilogy the next
Bro why does nobody want to see a live action clay face !!??!!
Heath Ledger's Joker stressed that he was NOT crazy, which I thought was interesting.
I don’t agree with the Joker needing a motivation to work, because my favorite version is the Mark Hamill one, and most of the time his character has no motivation beyond finding chaos funny. I do think the character needs to have a point in the story, but the character himself doesn’t need to be someone wanting to tell a message.
I agree that the characters should have fun though, that is definitely missing from recent portrayals in live action.
I disagree that Keoghan’s joker feels like a ledger ripoff, although somewhat similar they feel like 2 completely different characters, The Joker in TDK is an agent of chaos ( as he says himself), he’s cunning, methodical and a brilliant tactician that uses terror to shake the people of Gotham, it almost feels like he has a code he lives by, he’s more of a terrorist and he revels in the chaos he causes whereas Keoghan’s Joker is a more insidious kind of evil that just wants to burrow deep inside your psyche and make you question your own interpretation of yourself , and we know from Matt Reeves’ interviews that this joker has had this smiling condition from birth and has had a very dark reaction to it which tbh is quite fascinating , I also love how Rob’s Batman(who is an absolute powerhouse)almost shrinks in this Joker’s presence not because he’s afraid but because he doesn’t fully understand him, I also loved how this Joker used the opportunity to make batman question his own ideology, and I like the psychological profiler angle very much, he was able to deconstruct the Riddler’s personality with a few photos of crime scenes, plus I loved a little snippet where Joker asks Batman that if he thinks Joker gets off on seeing the violence, I however do agree that the makeup is a bit too much, a disfigured smile and green hair would’ve been fine, it does feel like that the makeup team went a little bit overboard with the design and wanting him to look monstrous
Faxx
He fell into a vat of acid though. The wounds were not self inflicted
So true
I agree for the most part cause we do not need another joker. But I do disagree with a lot of you saying the writing is atrocious. But great video as always man👍🏼
The writing in this scene is awesome!! Because its about batman. The writing establishes that this joker is easily able to get into someone's mind, whoch directly opposes that batman is trying to not be emotional at all and be a master of it.
All other times batman chooses fight or flight, this time he has to flee.
I liked this joker very much. He perceived accurately many key aspects of the riddler from the case file very quickly, and then applied these to Batman’s disposition and pushed his buttons like only joker can. Great!
I mostly agree with what you're saying, but toward the beginning you make a point about how everyone brings their own thing to Batman, but everyone keeps trying to recreate Ledger's joker and I think you have that exactly wrong. Broadly, ledger's joker is an anchoring point, but the different versions of the Batman are all very similar compared to the versions of the Joker. No one is trying to become the "new batman". No one is trying to "reinvent batman". When batman changes and iterates, it's motivated. That's what makes sense for Batman in that context. With the joker, though, there's an unspoken agreement that each new joker cannot be it's predecessor. It must be something brand new and unique, which means it cannot pay more than a slight homage to previous iterations, and cannot reuse anything, even if it should be there. Each joker needs to be the best joker it can be while specifically not being like any of the many many other jokers. It's like when you go around the room introducing yourself and saying your favorite food. If no one feels they can repeat someone else's favorite food (or re-use a genuinely good idea), eventually people are just saying whatever food they like best from what hasn't already been taken. I know your favorite food is steak, but Bill already said that, and now you're trying to convince me you're way more into swedish meatballs than anyone actually can be.
i feel like the majority of people don’t like something just because someone else said they don’t like it and some how made sense describing why they don’t like it. i loved this joker and got chills seeing him on screen again. same way how i loved the flash movie. people just be ungrateful..
i think the guy making this video is mad that it's not Heath. Barry only had 2 minutes screentime like give him a chance goddammit
Also, joker has been depicted as edgy even before the nolan movies.
Not gonna lie. Everything you said I agree with!. As soon as I saw the scene I thought "this looks like he's copying ledger" I wanted something different and I thought I was crazy because of the positive reception online.
I love how this new Joker looks and sounds like and i cannot wait to see more of him
He just need Heath's haircut and thats it
warner bros ceo: let's force in the joker random employee: why not any other villains? warner bros ceo: there are other villains?
Imma be honest, when the video first started I wanted to defend the deleted scene and say you were wrong, but after watching the full video I can definitely see your point. I wasn’t disappointed by Barry Keoghan’s performance but I definitely could see that it seemed almost too forced in trying to get the crazy aspect across. I wouldn’t discount him yet, but you make a very good point, I hope they try and make his joker a more complex character than being crazy.
He's overly dismissive of the scene's writing. Here's a great break down of it, it's *insanely* well written. th-cam.com/video/ogco5RpOzVg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=SavageBooks
I agree 100%
This guy uses a lot of words to say nothing , “ it was bad” it’s not even in the movie 😭😭 nothing wrong with the scene at all it just wouldn’t fit in with the movie and takes away from the riddler , this “film” expert probably thinks the Nolan movies aka villains carrying the movie , is better then The Batman
I mean from what we’ve heard from the director he seams complex a man who was born always smiling who was bullied cause of it and saw that life played a joke on him. We also see from the scene he is smart as well as crazy
He also seems to be pretty smart and quick to take the paper clips from the file so that’s cool and it makes sense for how he finds ways to escape the asylum
Heaths Joker: "That wasn't exactly what I had in mind when I said I wanted to inspire people."
Joaquin did really well as the joker. He did his own thing with it and I appreciate that.
I have to disagree with you on with Phoenix’s joker I think out of all of them he’s actually the one that doesn’t try hard at all if anything he was the breathe of fresh air for me we got to see how society can break a man down and create someone as sinister as the Joker and I actually felt bad for him. Health Ledger’s and Joaquin Phoenix’s performances brought a different view to the character while the others are more of the same it’s a shame we can’t see Phoenix’s joker evolve into what we all know and love.
The deleted scene has a silence of the lambs vibe…like how the rest of the movie had se7en and the saw vibes.
I truly believed Joaquin’s acting was excellent. It showed early signs of mental illness via trauma.
Now that he is without his meds plus all his added trauma…and his liberated new life…he could become something incredibly terrifying.
That could easily fit into the Batman…but looking at the deled scene… it now can’t be done.
I think we should actually wait for a full performance before we judge this new Joker
Yikes that take on Joaquin’s Joker was a tough look
I really agree with what you said about the jokers dark sense of humor. That’s what I liked about Nicholsons Joker. He only did stuff because he thought funny.
Petition for to FINALLY GET Hugo Strange in the big screen!
I'm not gonna lie this is actually a really good summary of the problems I had with the excessive joker content we've had lately, I really don't care much about the Joker anymore specifically because of the shallow oversaturation
The cut scene feels like it’s just from a completely different movie, it’s so boring and predictable compared to how amazing the rest of the Batman was
If Joker wasn't portrayed as an "edgelord" it wouldn't be accurate. He's always trying to make a punchline out of things that aren't traditionally funny. It's going to come off as cringy most of the time.
4:23 Man... the fact the camera is slightly lower than joker and the fact he's hunched makes it feel like he's towering over us and the mob guys, instantly creating an intimidating figure. Just brilliant
14:20 aww I love hearing people down the line still talking about Heath like this. Grew up with him on telly and I still just can't get over his loss after he made his masterpiece.
I don't fully agree with your take on the 2019,The Joker movie. As this was more of a character study of a very troubled and abused man by the name of Arthur Fleck. The name of the movie was the Joker. And when he appeared on Maury(DeNiros) show. DeNiros character had called him a Joker earliest in the film. Therefore Arthur probably wisely, wanting to keep his anonymously, wanting to keep his name unknown to all the viewers and everyone else, told Maury in the ending finale to refer to him as Joker. And though the 2019 Joker movie did include as young Bruce Wayne, his parents, and Alfred, was not a Batman movie. This was even confirmed by the director Tod Philips. This was a character study of Arthur Fleck, it's his story. He is the visual narrator and the story is told from his POV, and this is why there are many easter eggs in the move that prove this theory. As a matter of fact, it's been said that the movie was a joke on the audience, as the whole story may well have taken place in Arthur's head, and it was all fabricated in his head, and he was locked up in the Arkham asylum the whole time.
Phoenix Joker shouldnt be compared to any of the others, it works as a sort of stand alone graphic novel. To say that movie wasnt taking a risk, is pretty stupid.
I never liked Phoenix Joker ! he was too sympathetic, not intimidating and not insane enough !
@@MrMrjack18 he has no one to intimidate, that wasn’t the purpose of that film. He’s not fighting a Batman; and probably never will. Its a stand alone, taking a risk as its own thing of extreme abuse and mental Illness. Its literally not comparable to any other joker or Dc film.
@@WhatisReal11 Yes you right, he didin't need anyone to intimidate.... but that was the problem, that's not Joker, it's Arthur ! didin't like this !
@@MrMrjack18 why with the exclamation?
@@MrMrjack18 this video claims the joker was somehow copying or doing same thing as heaths... which is ridiculous. Even if people didn't like it, its nothing like anything else Joker ever.
The deleted scene was bad? How? It was amazing
Correct
Nah i really disliked that interpretation. That shit was some tryhard edgy joker crap. I think what mostly bothered me was how bad the dialogue was
The fact that the only good joker we've had since Heath Ledger is Lego Joker speaks volumes on how far the character has fallen. I can't even stand the comics Joker anymore the only other character I hate more than the Joker is the Batman who laughs
Honestly, I like the current joker based on the glimpse that we got. Heath was good, but honestly doubt he would be the penultimate Joker had he not died. Honestly, Nicholson and Hamill portrayed the character better. Calling Keoghan a bad Joker based on less than 10 minutes is just you simping out to a dead actor that you hold to way too high of a standard.
I actually like the new interpretation but Heath Joker is my favorite so you have a point in a way… im looking forward to this Joker but I do hope he isnt the main bad guy until the 3rd movie (assuming its a trilogy)
This is why they never should've gotten rid of dislikes