Why Toyota decided to change entire production process to use Tesla's 'Gigacasting'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- Why Toyota decided to change entire production process to use Tesla's 'Gigacasting'
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When Sandy Munro's Team tore down a Model Y and showed the Giga Casting was the day I invested in Tesla. I am an Engineer and this showed to me Tesla's vision and that they were more than an electric car startup to me.
I like how Sandy had the idea a long time ago with that 3 casting frame in his shop.
@@vleblanc1285Sandy didn’t have the idea. A client of Sandy’s had the idea and Sandy approved it.
yehp, that was a pivotable point.
Sandy may have put the idea out there, but Tesla developed the alloy that made it possible.
@@bigdougscommentary5719 totally agree. How many times did Munro say that companies walked by the casting and poo pooed it. It was a calculated risk and 5 out of 6 of the companies said no to tesla who made castings because they said it would not work. And the one that didn’t say no, wasn’t sure if it would work. Elon has balls.
I love that EVERYONE is listening to Munro now. Ford CEO emotionally thanked sandy munro for putting American automakers in their place and forcing their engineers to pull their heads out.
Mary didn't thank Munro, no need to when Biden is proclaiming to the world, "Mary, you did it!".
@@tech-utuber2219 LoL
Don't get me wrong, Sandy is grumpy, but I agree with him here.
@@Maxxmentum Technically he's a curmudgeon. :^)
Imagine how frustrated Sandy was working at an OEM. "Fastening Taskforce." Sound scintillating. ;^)
I love how he trashes MBAs.
Its called recognizing the source. It demonstrates respect and humility and is to be admired.
"SCAMMED BY STAKE", Please provide more info. I have shares invested through Stake also.
Yes! All car industry safety tests should include the 250 foot cliff plunge test!
Yet another reason Tesla is th BBBEST
I worked for Ford for some time. My group created the weld coordinates for all the body parts so the robots knew where to put a weld spot. We mostly did underbody, so i know quite good how the front and rear underbody of various Ford models look like (other car brands are not that different), how many parts there are and how many weld spots are holding them together. The gigacasts from Tesla are parts of the underbody which in case of damage are basically unreparable. Parts you could change from damage are the front and rear bumper beams, front fenders, hood, doors. Cause all that stuff isn't welded to the body but connected with various fasteners. When some parts of the welded body structure are effected any normal priced car will, in most cases, be a write off anyway. So hats off to Tesla. The gigacasts are a really great inovation in that space. And thats not the only part where they teach the established OEMs a lesson. I personaly don't like Teslas that much. Way to big and expensive for me and their cockpit is just horrible. I really like how they kick the huge lagards like Toyota, VW, GM etc. a nice kick in the balls. I'll wait for my Aptera though.
You should have trained your Aussie Ford manufacturers, did a low quality rust creating "work"
I want an Aptera too. They make so much sense to me :)
Not expensive any more in many countries. Should check out current cost compared with comparable new cars.
Yeah, gigacasting is great to reduce car production cost and then you consume all that money and charge more for the car. Then the frame gets bent or cracked in an accident, that is it, you throw the car away.
Thanks @heinzbecker9653. Great to read a logical comment based on knowledge, experience and fact.
Tesla efficiency in their cars is more than weight, they optimize aerodynamics and friction in the drivetrain, everything from weight of moving parts, number and type of bearings and lubrication, even rolling friction of the tires, and more. Also fewer or no parts are better if still getting the function done!
Those are the same optimisations that every large car manufacturer tries to make but other manufacturers have more or less focus on the cost of the optimisations. What Tesla's done is start without the technical debt that other car companies have and pioneer some manufacturing technologies like casting the chassis.
However, they pack the car with so many extra sensors that a slight tap on the bumper costs $1,200 in repair.
@@noseboop4354 Which extra sensors?
@@Zedus-rl9hp Parking sensors, anti-collision sensors, camera sentry mode sensors, temperature sensors, and probably tons more.
@@noseboop4354 - and a front crumple zone - oops that is a right-off, bent the gigacasting.....
Jaguar F Type project started in 1998 and produced a prototype 2000 demonstrating a stamped aluminium chassis components but it was shelved for 10 years because there was no established production route.
Stamped is as a pure weight saving & not the same as casting parts - all the problems of stamping steel panels as there (plus a few!) with stamped alloy :)
Tesla's bonded aluminum chassis for their original roadster (released 2008) built by Lotus was acknowledged occurred via tech from Jaguar by Tesla engineers. Reminds me of an old fable about teachers students and the development of mastery?
A gentle person gives credit where credit is due.
But an a-hole only gives a…💩
Insurance premiums are priced by an insurer's loss experience.
If write-offs for a car model are costing the insurer more in pay-outs,
the insurer will simply charge higher premiums for that model.
And if FSD finally shows up, when it is wide-spread, the number of crashes will go down more than enough to compensate for the high cost when a crash occurs.
@@lokensgaif indeed the cost is higher...
Recently shopped around for comprehensive car insurance as I will be picking up my Tesla Model Y very shortly. It does seem like insurance is considerably more expensive than for a conventional ICE car (although I am comparing with the insurance that I am paying for my 17 yo VW Golf GTI, so not a great comparison). I also found that some insurance companies will not insure a Tesla Model Y. I have seen several TH-cam videos where people have had relatively minor accidents in their Teslas and get repair bill shock, so you should make sure you are appropriately covered by your insurance policy and that the policy should allow you to choose your own repairer, given the specialised construction of these cars.
It’s not Tesla’s weight saving that gives them the higher efficiency, it’s the combination of aerodynamics, drivetrain, thermal management and electronic efficiency. Often people think that the weight of an EV affects efficiency but it has been shown many many times that this is simply orders of magnitude less in effect compared to an ICE vehicles. The test is simple: load the car with 5 people and compare the efficiency, it’s minor
One of the reasons Tesla gigapress works is because of the new alloys they are creating by working with space x engineers.
Not like others can develop their own alloys that work too. Tesla’s giga advantage is soon gone.
@@TheBooban They likely will or already have. That is just one small part part of Tesla's advantages, and the way Toyota is using it presents no threat to Tesla.
@@jbbuzzable you should elaborate or your comment didn’t say anything. How is Toyota doing it wrong? Tesla may have other advantages, but this one is significant and is now gone.
@@TheBooban For some reason I thought Toyota was going to use them in ICE cars. I was wrong and retract that part of my statement. Thanks for challenging me.
@@TheBooban Tesla does not care about the, so called, competition. They have open sourced their patents. They are helping Ford and GM by letting them use the SC network. They want others to succeed.
Regarding gigacasting meaning a total write-off of the car in a serious accident. Think about how close a bumper replacement comes to being a complete write-off in a 5 year old car. It is true that we might have fewer cars in the 10 year old used market, but cost improvements are also making that less relevant as more people will eventually be able to afford new cars.
What Cory at Munro said about that exact scenario was, if the impact was hard enough to damage the casting, then a standard built car would also have such a bent subframe that it would be written off as well.
The safety aspect negates any criticism of repair costs.
So? Hardly anything is repaired anymore. Just indicates how efficient production is.
The battery or electric system would cause a total write off before the gigacasting.
@@TheBooban It indicates how few people know how to repair cars or anything else.
All of Tesla’s haters and critics who have spoken out or not spoken out, need to give credit where credit is due. The killer is that NO ONE (American automakers) can make changes as fast as Tesla. Truly genius and adaptive engineering at its best come from Tesla.
Yep, manufacturing at the iterative speed of software. As Elon has said, it it the pace of innovation that is most important.
Giga casting is in its infancy. Toyota may see additional uses for it to be able to handle a wide range of body styles. Perhaps a mold insert can significantly change the function. Like the number of drive motors.
@@stuartharris5527 Unfortunately for Toyota, this is just polishing the brass on the Titanic. They left electrification way too late and will go bankrupt. They are still talking H2 fool cell stupidity.
FYI, cars used to be made body on frame. some trucks and large SUVs still use this technique, a steel frame with body on frame. In the 60s the manufacturers began using "unibody" welded stamped pieces, eliminating a separate frame.
I recall Tesla in the early days being critisiced for cost of welding multiple parts to make a body. To increase profits for shareholders they went to gigapress
I haven't heard of any shareholders getting any profits and I own stock, where is my profit? Hint; there isn't any.
More likely the weight of the battery is such a big problem, gigacasting distributes that better so the axles just don't break down.
I wonder what these casts do for repair costs? Does every accident become a totaled car if it cracks the cast in the front, rear or side?
Then you need to know how easy it is to crack a casting.
Congrats Toyota ! For you are humble and follow Tesla in their leading 👍👍
Hahaha!
How does it work with gigacast panels when it comes to crash repair? Does the whole casting have to be replaced? If so, is this more expensive than a “traditional” format? What is the cost saving in making a new car this way?
The Gigacasting impact absorbers are replaceable, which covers most damage cases.
A side impact often leads to a deformed structure, which almost always means a total loss, regardless of whether it is steel or die-cast aluminum
When a Tesla has a bump, the whole car has to be replaced.....
@@chrissmith2114 😂
I bought my model y after watching Sandy Monroe take one apart. Best decision I ever made
Good for you..congratulations
There is a formula I learned in high school known as kinetic energy or energy in motion.
KE= 1/2 mv square
If you increase the velocity you use the square of the kinetic energy
Double the the mass or weight means double the kinetic energy
To get optimal distance -> slow down & remove the extra unnecessary items in your car.
I think the insurance concern is that instead of repairing an ICE car, which an insurance company would cover (net of the deductible) and get you back on the road, writing off a Tesla can result in the insurance company giving you the current market value for a Tesla, meaning you would need to go out and buy a used Tesla or put more money out of pocket into the purchase of a new Tesla. The other side of the argument is that the same accidents that cause a write off in a Tesla would cause a write off with any ICE car as well.
Always forgetting that you have less to repair in a Tesla because they have less accidents in the first place.
Magna, a large multi-national automotive assembly company has been using high vacuum casting for large body and chassis parts for quite a while, as well as for battery carriers for EV. But a lot of car body and chassis sections are still made from lightweight high strength boron steel, known as bake hardening steel... because the temperature in the paint baking ovens makes the steel a lot tougher. Basically gigacastingf means that when a Tesla gets damaged it is gonna be written off - which is another blow to the environment by tesla on top of all the toxic chemicals in their cars... Nice one Tesla, making cars that cannot be repaired, or disposable single use cars.... There is very little new in the auto industry, and most times manufactures ignore certain processes for a reason...
The castings can be readily recycled. A written off car these days is a gold mine!
I’m not and engineer but I am a machinist. I would like you to do a TH-cam segment on auto insurance on Tesla’s car insurance, specifically collision coverage premium, vs cars of similar cost,say BMW. Seems like, in a similar collision, the Tesla would be “ Totaled” first before a similar BMW.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness. - Oscar Wilde.
One of my favorite quotes.
Hey SAM, just wanted to say, that when you give the same exact ingredients to two different cooks to prepare the same dish, one of the cooks will always be better than the other! This is what is happening to TESLA and the remaining EV manufacturers.
Yes, I agree with the safety features to avoid an accident in the first place and the highest safety rating in crash tests for my family with my wife and two 9 year olds - like you said thats what insurance is for and its required where I live in San Diego, California
Keep up the good work Sam, I really appreciate a person that does proper research and does not put out false info. and calls out others when they do.
Tesla has proven the viability of using gigacasting. Now it makes sense for Toyota to adopt that manufacturing process starting with EV models. As mentioned in other TH-cam videos by many different presenters, legacy automakers are heavily invested [and indebted] in their existing manufacturing processes using hundreds of robots.
It is not that they are just heavily invested in what they have. The cars are repairable. If the frame is bent in a wreck, they have machines to bend it back. Or you can cut and weld frame components. One giant cast cracks, you throw it away. The purpose of a cast is likely to hold all that battery weight. Instead of weight on welds and bolts, it is distributed all over. Now, if they make a cast with Gorilla Glue to glue the cracks, ha, you are good to go. Give the frame a squirt, let it dry over night, and the next day you are good to go.
Re: Who would have thought high pressure casting would have been the best approach to manufacturing a car?
Well....Matchbox and Hot Wheels would be two companies.
The way i heard it was that the term gigapress came from within IDRA to name their large casting machines. My sorce on this was a tour of the IDRA plant I believe with Sandy Monrow.
That Toyota has adopted gigacasting says alot about Tesla. Will Ford & GM soon follow?
Gm will with the insanely expensive celestiq ev. Ford says it's in the works but no announced timetable or model using them yet.
Volvo will use them in the rear from 2025 in their remodeled main Sweden plant. Nio already uses a single piece rear casting in the et5 model's.
@@4literv6 GM, LOL. Sold 2 Hummers in Q1 2023. Cancelling the bolt. Bankruptcy is on the near horizon.
@@machoopichoo2 again? How many times can 1 company go bankrupt. No billions in tax payer funded bailouts under to big to fail clasification please this time. 😂👍🏻
@@4literv6 Ya, there really is no real way to bail out a company that is incapable of making a product people will buy. This time around...no bailouts. Tesla will give cover, in that, the entire US auto industry will not disappear, like the Japanese will.
Possibly if Ford is making some BEVs that sell, still at a loss, the gov. might bail them out.
@@machoopichoo2 I certainly hope not? But if democrats are still in CONTROL I expect gm will get something to reward their failures. 🙂
As for Ford man I believe farley is doing good? But he's delusional believing evs are gonna ad 2-3,000,000 new unit's in sales back to fomocos market share and ice are just gonna keep on keeping on. This is what he said in the q4 market call&again in a blue oval tn interview.
If anything imo by 2027 or sooner, ice is stone cold dead and evs will be it for them. I could easily see around late 2025 He tries to write off the whole entire team blue ice division losses. And then ask for gov help to make more new blue oval cities for the ev division model e. 🤔
Yep, agree with Al Sam, and do love Sandy Munro to, great engineer
I don't know how Insurance works in Australia but the issue with cars being much easier to total in the US is the cost of the insurance premium.
The Mustang Mach E, F150 Lightning, Rivian R1T, Bolt and Others are a hell of a lot cheaper to insure than a Tesla in my State.
$1500 for a 6 month full coverage policy with $1000 deductibles vs about $650 for give or take $50 for everyone else at a $500 deductible.
Making a Tesla cheaper means nothing if the insurance premiums are going to be outrageously overpriced when compared to competitor EVs.
Gigacastings are used in the safest cars production cars ever made in the history of the world. Mic drop moment.
Fun fact. Nio was first with mega castings. And when they almost went bankrupt in 2018 they sold their gigapress to Tesla. Sandy Munro made a prototype of mega castings long ago but only the Chinese manufacturers and Tesla jumped on this ship. At the moment only NIO and Tesla have cars on the road with mega castings. Nio has them in the et5 and the new es6. Tesla has them in the modelY.
Owning a die casting machine is not evidence that Neo mastered the size of casting Tesla pioneered. Cars have been using aluminum die castings at least as far back as the early 60s. Prior to that they used century old sand casting still in use today in the expensive and low volume Cadillac Lyric. Not saying you are wrong but would like to see evidence.
@@danharold3087 Yes could be that Tesla had mega castings in their cars before NIO but atleast they adopted the idéa at about the same time. Yes small die castings have been used for a long time, like my lexus ls400 from 1990 use a full aluminium fron subframe casting. But the only cars with full rear end castings on the road today are Nio and Tesla.
Gigacasting is a super-smart approach to making EVs, one that seems unlikely to ever work well for ICE vehicles with their fundamentally more complicated and unsuitable drive train. As a materials chemist, I was also impressed that Tesla did the metallurgical work to develop the proprietary aluminum alloy that makes it workable. Sandy Munro's (and, later, Toyota's engineers') glowing analysis of the the Model Y was totally on point.
On the other hand, Tesla needs a public relations department. Remember when Elon said, "Solving Full Self-Driving...is really the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money and being worth basically zero."? No, and I'm sure that Musk himself would have backed off that over-the-top statement if he had been reminded that Tesla has done some awesome research, development, and manufacturing - even if FSD is never solved. (But FSD is getting pretty decent in the past few months...)
Huh?
Casting is mostly there to make the frame.
As long as the correct geometry is cast to support the correct weight, it doesn't matter what drivetrain get strapped to the frame.
Mind you tank with cast structure used to house engine and drivetrain exist in the 1930s, it is not rocket science.
The hard part is make it light enough and simplified the process enough so it is commercial viable to build consumer product.
Good video. Though you could give others more credit by more regularly linking to your sources (and, perhaps, getting rid of some of your clutter of self referential links which make fresh links hard to find.)
You really should do a segment on BYD mass producing cars / registering them and then dumping the cars into fields to get their subsidies in China. Do one on that Sam. Other people are covering it, but I want to hear your hot take on it. BYD is the number one producer... are they? Fields of vehicles license plated/registered and parked in a field with 30KMS on them. Hope you use it on a video.
Tesla didn’t develop the custom aluminum, SPACEX did. Tesla and SPACEX share engineers all of the time.
It would be interesting to compare "replacement cost" insurance rates between Tesla cars mad with giga-casting and others.
...that is such a silly argument...this guy thinks every "crash" totals a vehicle and insurance rates are the same across the board for every vehicle...the Gigapress is revolutionary but the repair and insurance aspects are valid points...
@@puzer1 It would be worthwhile to explore exactly what kind of impact accident would "total" a car with a giga-cast frame. It seems to me that it would be extremely costly to replace one large frame element, but perhaps it could be welded (though welding aluminum requires expertise perhaps not found in the average body shop). In any event, if a damaged car can be repaired for $8K, but a giga-cast car with the same damage is totaled, or costs 2-3 times as much to repair, that must translate to much higher insurance premiums.
@@superbear617 100% - even in a low speed accident, what is the remedy if the giant casting is slightly deformed? Can a shop use conventional frame straightening tools to bring it back into spec? That seems doubtful as the whole point of a casting is it rigidity and non-deformability. My bet is the insurance industry has not yet fully caught on to the risks of insuring a car that has to be totalled after an 8 mph crash because the entire rear casting is now 0.25" out of spec and can't be realigned. Maybe Tesla has considered this, but I highly doubt it as repairability is not something they (or the tech industry in general) seem to care much about.
If fewer accidents occur with Teslas because of accident avoidance software then the amortized cost of repair will be lowered proportionally. I searched for "Do Teslas get in fewer accidents" and found the that Teslas basically get in about 50% fewer accidents. I did not look too far into this, but the principle is still valid: Multiply the reduced probability of an accident by the average cost to find expected cost per accident. Also, as several others have pointed out, the injury to occupants is reduced because of the superior crash worthiness of Teslas. Injury costs can be quite high.
That being said, some others have pointed to insurance companies charging more when the cars are equipped with the 'full self driving' feature.
@@eideticgoone7035 it comes down to the premiums, comparing a model 3 with a bmw ICE car or something. That's the economic question. Beyond that, if course, is which car is safer, and whether the better margin of safety is worth that much to you. (Maybe a Hummer......not)
The entire picture is changing. When the majority of cars on the road are self driving and talking to each other with V2V the number of car crashes will plummet. The insignificant cost of insurance will be provided as an part or in conjunction with the self driving software. The vast majority of crashes will be due cars w/o self driving.
Modern cars driven by people will have most of the advantages of the self driven cars. Like knowing there is a car about to run a red light hidden from your view.
In the UK just did an insurance quote comparing a 340bmw with dual motor model 3 estimating both a 30k car - and the tesla was 65% more on average!
Agree 100% on the idea of giving credit to Tesla...the other companies should do it more. Ford's CEO, to his credit, has done so.
Consumers are very conservative, too - just consider how much flak did Ford take a few years ago, when they announced the next F-150 body would be aluminum-bodied.
Yeah, and Ford bodies are still twice as expensive to repair today as steel bodies.
We do things the way we always have because that’s what we do!
Tesla does a lot more than just making Cars
@@paulhailey2537 so is toyota
@@miraphycs7377 LMFAO YOU MEAN TRUCKS TOO LOL
@@paulhailey2537 Ya, Toyoda has a stationary storage business right? ;^)
@@machoopichoo2 like in furniture or do you mean Electrical
Tesla wasn't first with structure battery, I remember that Sandy Munro talk about it in past.
The Issue I see is that repair based in a serious collision could be spendy. Not that I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea but it is something to think about.
Your correct. I see a lawsuit being made by repair shops and private owners just like with Apple. Right to repair. If only Tesla can repair it, it takes too long and is expensive.
In a serious collision the car will be a write off
@@daveyshmavey No reason why private companies couldn't repair. Reminds me when cars went from full frame designs to unit body. There were lots of nay sayers with that change as well.
The insurance companies will apply biggest pressure - ha - in most of the world without need to go to a lawsuit. This, and 'structural batteries' are to me a worry, real cost wise, I reckon things will get more modular again, better than crude panels welded together, but repairable
Insurance companies will write off a car with only a few dents and scratches. They will not bother to repair a car damaged so extensively as to break the casting.
Viking, best wishes to your family, and keep up the good work. Thanks.
Much appreciated
Did you just say scammed by Stake? I have had nothing but a top notch experience with Stake.
It’s your own money, of course, but it seems to me that investing in a casino type company dealing in crypto, founded by three young and inexperienced guys now fighting each other in court, and backed by a startup fintech with opaque financials and an even more opaque Chinese company shareholder is probably a high risk deal. To each its own, I guess.
@@jaimeriveras ummm the shares I invest in are mine regardless what happens to stake. CHESS backed.
You need to remember that most large corporations have built up processes and procedures to avoid change, they actively purge mavericks and internal change agents who try to do something novel and those people leave for other projects. That is why the development chasm exists and it takes a visionary founder from outside the industry to make a giant leap across the chasm where industry insiders had been calculating it would take two or three jumps and you'd certainly fall in the chasm. When someone else shows them a way across they cheerily proceed -- where they realize that same someone has already skipped across the next chasm before them. Now that Toyota has broken their ICE wall, they will get their fast-follower processes in motion and catch up fairly quickly.
They would be stupid to not follow Teslas lead. I have wondered about the repairability of Teslas after wrecks wondering how a body shop would go about it or if as you say they write it off. Maybe that could be part of an episode sometime to tell us what you have to go through to fix a Tesla after a wreck. Thank you Sam.
The Downstream that I see from wrecks is recycling the Castings and rerouting the Battery packs and drivetrain components into Electrifying classic Transportation through intelligent up cycling …. There are people out in the world that want to keep the historic shape alive but power it with something more environmentally friendly and sustainable. Castings that are damaged are cheaper to recycle than the Virgin material and it’s already post the mining stage …
Any car can be easily written off by bending the frame out of spec.
Toyota talking dream because they'll have shareholder meeting soon. Giga casting required Giga press which has short supply due to every Chinese automakers already ordered it right now. I don't think Toyota who came late is going to get their hand on one before 2027, let alone make a car with it
They said they not using IDRA but some Japanese company.
they already showed the gigacast bz4x rear subframe. They would be using a japanese company
Toyota will use Japanese made equipment, Japanese are well ahead of USA in anything to do with engineering, especially automotive stuff.
@@chrissmith2114 Japanese company who just copying Gigacasting technique from Tesla is well ahead...haaa that hilarious
@@mukamuka0 Gigacasting was not invented by Tesla who just made use of it...Japanese were early adopters of low pressure and high vacuum casting methods. Toyota is still world number one vehicle maker - you see Toyota vehicles in places they have never seen an American vehicle, and don't forget Japanese almost destroyed American car industry... Tesla have always, and still have a build quality problem that all the tech in the world cannot hide. Germany has banned Tesla using 'AutoPilot' name in Germany because it is actually just a driver assist and it has been proved to be dangerous if left to its own devices.
So you have never heard of the "not invented here " syndrome? Sandy is a good guy, he makes lots of money consulting.
Credit to Tesla for being the first to use giga casting, but Toyota can't be faulted for not having them before they were possible.
I'm not sure but i think the Tesla vs cliff incident predated widespread use of gigacastings in Teslas lineup.
It was a Model Y. That being the case, all Model Y's used the gigacastings, right from their inception.
I dont know about other areas of the world, but here in Canada you will of course get Liability insurance, but if your car isn't worth a whole lot, you might not get Collision. For an older car, the price of Collision insurance is too high. That's what protects your car if the accident is your fault. Unfortunately, a lot of used Teslas will be easily written off for fairly minor accidents when the cost of repair is high.
I used to have a Tesla Model Y. Someone hit the side of my Tesla, and because it's a whole piece done by gigacast, to repair the whole piece, plus all the cheap parts inside were shattered, repair estimate was $30K+, and the shop recommended to total it instead. Also Tesla cars hardly change the body design probably because it's expensive to create another gigacast for different body shape. It's getting so bored looking at the same design. I love the quality and design of my Audi Q4 e-tron Sportback, both inside out.
Q4 e-tron is a ID4/ID5, and just such a completely different exterior design is possible with the gigacastings.
And since several hundred thousand / millions of vehicles of one type are manufactured anyway, a separate mold can also be used for this.
Thing is most crashes are a write off these days on all cars due to crumple zones meaning that the main bodyshell is always damaged...
GIGAPRESS, PROUDLY MADE IN ITALY!
Many other industries will benefit when Tesla reveals how they solved the problems that have plagued large die castings in the past: thermal shock cracking and breaking the steel mold inserts and problems with cracks in parts of large size because the metal shrinks as it solidifies while still in the mold. They will also benefit other industries when they reveal how they control the weight of the castings which are made in mold cavities that are optimized for speed of filling the cavity and not optimized for controlling the weight of the finished parts. Also, good luck molding box beams, which are widely recognized as very light and very strong structures, now made from cheap sheet steel.
Imitation is the best form of flattery.
My understanding is that, Insurance will only cover you for full replacement value for the first few years. After that it is market value. Some differences might occur in other places, and you should check your policy and conditions for an EV insurance plan.
I wouldn’t be so quick to conclude that structural rigidity was responsible for survival in that case, unless you know the events in great detail. I would have thought that even castings Iike these have to crumple in a controlled way for crash safety purposes.
The crumpling on these casting is amazing. For lower speed crashes there are replaceable crush cans. If the crash goes past that the casting is make weaker to strong front to back. So the casting continues to compress and finally stops to protect the occupants of the passenger compartment. I expect the insurance companies are seeing less payout for death benefits with today's safer cars. Not just Tesla. Not sure if it offsets the cost of totalling more cars. Totalling cars also keeps them out of court on the repair side.
Reducing weight is important for ICE too. They are facing required improvements in mileage, before they are banned.
Crumple zones, proprietary software, now it is giga casting. Makers are constantly making cars less repairable. John Deere (tractors) and Tesla have strongly refused to allow owners to do their own repairs. Now more manufacturers are adopting "disposable" cars. Bump into something at more than a couple of miles and you throw out your car.
Insurance companies are going to love the profits they can skim off of mandatory insurance.
Drivers are going to hate the insurance rates!
Last time I saw an article on Toyota they were not going into EV making, because most of their cars go to areas where there is not and maybe never will be a charging network... You do not get to be the worlds largest vehicle maker by making wrong decisions, and Toyota have been at the top for ever. Not many car makers really believe that EV are the way to go and they are all looking at other energy sources - even Tesla. Due to the wildly varying output from wind and solar, the only sensible use for that output is to make hydrogen.
I applaud Toyota for acknowledging improvements that can be made to their existing production line by learning from other companies' success.
It's no coincident that Toyota became the biggest auto maker in the world.
It's no coincidence they are the world's most indebted co. The wheels were falling off the BZ4X. They will not be the world's biggest OEM when they go bankrupt. Toyoda ruined the company. That's what you get with nepotism.
will they use giga casting for model 3 highland? If they can implement this and cut 30 or 40% of their production cost like with model y that would be insane
That is my guess. That would substantially lower the cost of the Model 3.
People talk about other features but ....
The Multiple part construction system came from a day when cars were relatively more expensive and makers wanted them to be relatively easy to repair. Production wasn’t so streamlined and looking after service and repair outfits had quite a bit of priority when designing a car. When manufacturers moved away from the common spare parts model it was a matter then of having enough of those unique parts to satisfy Customer repairs for the next ten years for their model. Our disposable society doesn’t need that model upping costs and holding development back. This is why Tesla gets away with so many changes between models …their insurance isn’t built around rebuilding but rather replacing any suspect damaged vehicle … it also helps that electric vehicles don’t need anywhere as much servicing or spare parts. Just Tyres for the most part …
Excellent info Sam thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I thought IRDA named their machine "GigaPress", and that had nothing to do with Tesla?
Actually Sandy Monroe says the Giga Casting can be repaired by TIG welding, unlike the longitudinals in a conventional car.
True engineers should see the real benefits are a no brainer, with thoughtful designs and modern fixing systems it’s the way to go, I’ve been around for over 70 years and to see Tesla approach is just awesome, I also think we have seen only there B game ,the bot is where my eyes are looking, add full on AGI will blow our minds 👍
I am almost 80 and been thinking about Bots all my life, nice to see U.S. Robotics finally taking off.
I'm 69 and fine. But my health is unlikely to improve. I would love to have a bot to help with some of the heavy lifting.
Giga Press is good for cheap productions but a nightmare for repair shops. If you have minor damaged you can risk your hole car. Think about the massive sclae. No one can buy any insurance any more if even small crashes have a big impact on the coast.
I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that the Tesla skateboard style chassis and the chassis of a radio control toy car have an awful lot in common. People probably don’t want to hear this, but I’m convinced what Elon said is true, let’s make real cars by copying how toy cars are made. Truly out of the box thinking.
If they did they'd be much too heavy
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If those presses were available thirty or forty years ago all the legacy manufacturers would already be using them. They did it with bumper and body panels from plastic for decades. The insurance issue is the industry is already charging high premiums and it could get worse if they have to start replacing more expensive vehicles more often that have damage that normally could be repaired. Insurance is required in the USA, for liability anyway, and full coverage is mandatory until the car loan is paid off. As you mentioned before the car's battery is quite heavy and heavy vehicles can cause more damage which also can figure into the insurance premiums.
Hi Electric Viking (EV heh heh). I'm a long time fan of your channel. I just found an interesting TH-cam video you might be interested in "China is Throwing Away Fields of Electric Cars - Letting them Rot!". Keep up the great work. Thanks, Tom Oberski.
I used to be an avid fan of that channel, but they seem to have had a lot of disinformation recently.
In reply to Tesla insurance it’s is not whether you get insurance but rather do you pay a premium, year after year, for that portion of insurance, specifically Collision coverage , for Tesla and how much. If you know anything about insurance you know that COLLISION coverage the most expensive item on the policy and cannot be ignored.
Repairability of the giga-castings in a vehicle has never really bothered me. I've driven about 700K miles without anything worse than backing into a trash can happening, and at age 56, I have reasonable confidence in my driving. The more Teslas on the road, the lower the likelihood of someone else hitting me IMHO. In any case, without any changes to my policy and a perfect driving record, my last policy renewal in Florida was a 46% premium increase. WTFO? Guess folks need to get off their phones, or something, plus too much fraud. It sucks. I'd rather put that money toward a new Tesla.
There is an old addage "Imitation is the greatest form of Praise!"
Regarding insurance covering write offs, the premiums will be much higher than for a car that can be more cheaply repaired.
It seems commonsense to build car bodies as on big casting .I presume it was considered but not possible in the past due to the knowledge and machinery not being available to do so.But Tesla has one big advantage as it is building brand new mega factories where it is easy to install new machinery.
Check out the crush zone designed to protect the gigacastings from everything but catastrophic (car totaling impact)
Think of inkjet printers. A few years ago, before the current HP semi-monopoly, you could get an inkjet printer for less than 30$ CA. It wasn't cheap in the end; you'd pay through the nose by buying ink cartridges (with an insanely high profit margin).
When Ford says it's loosing thousands of dollars on every EV you should not weep : they plan on making a killing with their spare parts and Ford has been hard at work making "Right to Repair" impossible (sometimes by hook and by crook).
Very good example
Hold on there, insurance in the US will rarely pay more than 80% of the value in a crash write off.
yes aluminum is a soft metal unless add other elements like magnesium
All aluminum used for anything practical is an alloy.
Reverse engineering a competitor product to understand the manufacturing process and costs has been the “norm” for over 70 years and helps engineers look for more cost efficient solutions in their designs.
Sandy was the first to crap Tesla c- and they self improved from hearing things like that. Now Sandy gives them a A+.
Tesla has also lined up supplies of lithium etc. which it can sell to backwards competitors if it doesn't need them any more. And they continue to redesign their assembly line for ever greater efficiency--- their Mexican factory will be the first designed from the ground up to their latest pattern. And Tesla's charging network will displace gas stations on a massive scale--at lower cost (and thus higher profits) than any competitors. Add to that the way Tesla makes continuous assembly line changes to their autos-- rather than waiting for a new model or a new year. Oh, and they aren't drowning in debt. I foresee a shakeout in the automotive industry comparable to that of the 1930's. I don't anticipate ever buying an EV, but I can admire a job well done. (IMO they mostly require a better user interface, though.)
I remember Steve Jobs going on about how the Apple TV would have the simplest user interface ever--far simpler than we could imagine. Oh? I remember when TV's were controlled by two knobs: an off/on/volume knob and a channel selector. Apple never beat that.
That’s why an EV insurance costs an arm and a leg in the US
When Giga casting is combined with the upcoming Tesla ‘Unbox process’. (why is it called that), the whole auto manufacturing process will be raised to another level. The efficiency will be incredible and the whole process will depend on highly sophisticated software, an area Tesla excels in. It looks like Giga Mexico will be where this process will first be used. A massive production revolution is on the horizon, led by Tesla.
It's called that bcoz it's like putting the parts together out of a box to do the one final build.
Like motorcycles and F1 cars use the engine as the main structure.
Tesla: Interesting EVs, Over the Air updates, Glass roof, Structural battery, Big screen console, Megacasting, Exoskeleton, 48V electrical system, ...
Legacy automakers: ... ... ... ... ... WE MUST COPY TESLA OR WE ARE TOAST!
Good engineering descision by Toyota but it won't save the company when the value of all their leased cars fall through the floor because hardly anyone will want a second hand ICE car soon.
Wrong way around, a Tesla falling off a cliff was a statement about its second hand value..... a Tesla will be written off when it needs a new battery.... Nobody ever wrote an ICE car off because the petrol tank needed repairing.
@@chrissmith2114 No, but i've seen a few written off because the timing belt has broken.
I do not understand why people are so hung up on repair cost when the real value is in safety. The most expensive part of auto accidents are human injuries, so the safer the vehicle, the less cost to insurance companies and healthcare systems. Totaling a car is cheap compared to the cost of an emergency room visit with a major surgery, and a long hospital stay that can easily exceed the value of the car many times.
My main comment is "Finally!". It has been obvious since it became clear what Tesla was doing that others should emulate and improve (if possible) on the Tesla process. Optimised, purpose designed EVs (not EV/hybrid or EV/ICE designs); wide use of aluminium alloys for light weight; parts and weight reduction by using GigaPress-type castings; structural batteries; the latest/best battery technology. Any auto manufacturer not adopting that model is doomed to extinction. Take note Ford, GM and Stellantis.
On the matter of accident damage if you crash a car made of pressed steel parts insurers look to cut out and replace panels/boxes or whatever. Same thing with a casting - if it's not salvageable then replace it. I haven't seen the costings to replace, say a front offside quarter on a conventional steel car vs a Tesla/castings car but it is reasonable to assume that the casting makes the process easier not harder so possibly cheaper. In either case major damage could result in a write-off.
The great thing about giga castings is they will not rust.
Chloride attack is the same on aluminum castings as it is on steel. On aluminum it is called corrosion, a more general form of the word "rust." You should be aware of all the corrosion problems with modern aluminum aircraft, and they don't even get wet with salt water the way cars do in much of the US.
gigacasting is great but can it be applied to body on frame vehicles?
No reason why it couldn't.
Think modern motorbikes, they still have a frame, but the caste engine becomes a park of the structure. So what you have are two frame assemblies integrated with the cast part.
have things gone to far when you strat to make robots unemployed? LOL
These days they write most cars off after a slight bump anyway 😮
Yes the costs of repair and headaches, they really would rather not deal with it.
Sam, whats going on at Giga Nevada ? I thought they were also going to make 4680 ? And do you know when Giga Mexico will start construction?
Thanks for all you do !
I'm so tired of the other people not doing research and putting out false info.
Also, hope your wife can find proper care my mother had cancer twice and also my sister and they are both recovered now.