I went to college in my late 20s and early 30s. There were some nerds playing heroscape in the student lounge. It looked cool, and as an avid TT gamer I was in. I got a ton of it, and played for a few years in college. Met my wife, graduated, etc and it all went in a storage tote. Fast forward to 2020 where my 6, 8 and 10 year olds find it and say, "What's this, dad?" They're all addicted now. I just wish I could get some more water, swamp and lava pieces.
You can occasionally find a good deal on eBay, and if there’s nothing there, all things heroscape sells terrain pieces for not TERRIBLY ridiculous prices
The biggest mistake Hasbro ever did was they never tried to make a TV series for these game sets. I still believe that to this day, Heroscape would still be popular if an animated series launched.
Solid video. Great editing and presentation overall. Thinking the community is gonna bring it back. With 3d printing in our homes is possible maybe it might be cheaper in some respect. Who knows. The support for the game to find fans and bring more people to try it out and watch content about it helps greatly. Love the vid keep up the great work. Earned a sub
Thanks Joe! Really appreciate it. It's remarkable how much the community is keeping the game somewhat alive. Especially with the C3V releases that've been coming out steadily for the past decade. I don't think it'll ever come back in an official capacity, as, even with 3d printing, it's probably just too expensive to keep afloat, but I don't see the fans letting the game die any time soon.
Loved to play with the figurines, never learnt how to play, warhammer is hype RN, went into the store and no one knew what I was talking about. Thanks for sharing it’s exactly what I remembered
Same! A lot of my friends growing up had 0 desire to learn the game's rules, so oftentimes we'd just build a map with the terrain and play around with the units. I'm surprised by how few people really know the game. It seemed like it was almost the center of my world when I was 12. Glad you enjoyed the video though!
The last Christmas that Heroscape was on our Walmart's shelves, they had probably 10 Master Sets left over and started their slow discount. I kept checking back each week as I already had plenty, but who wouldn't pass on more cheap terrain? The last time I went to where they were stocked there were none on the shelves, but the price was $2.50! One person nearby had a copy in their basket. I asked them if they'd be willing to part with it. They said they planned to give it to their grandkids, but they knew someone else had recently picked a copy up too. I searched all around the store and ended up finding them. I offered them DOUBLE (yeah, I know) to buy it from them if I could have it to purchase. They were nice enough to let me have it without paying them.
It's 2021 and I still play Heroscape. Everything is hella expensive now, but it is still super fun. My older brothers were 11 and 13 when Heroscape released, so they jumped on the game as soon as they could. They and their friends would combine their collections to form massive terrain battlefields with hordes of miniatures. Then I got into the game a few years later, and I have loved it ever since.
That’s awesome that you’re still playing! I picked up a master set over the summer for WAAAAYY over the original price. Combining master sets to make ginormous battlefields was always super fun
Well... sorta. It's on the Has Lab crowdfunding site, and we're only about a third of the way to having it funded with a little more than a month to go. It really seems like it's mostly marketed to those of us who already know and love the game, so for this to succeed there's going to need to be some kind of push to bring in new players.
I got the last set of heros so in my town. Never regretted it. Nowadays the game is super expensive but I still love the monthly tournaments they throw for it. Game community is still going, my collection is still growing. Loved the video. Heroscape is dope.
Oh man I envy you. I think my parents got rid of my collection when I moved out so I’ve had to rebuy everything which sucks. I should look into local tournaments. I could hardly put together a competitive army but it could be fun!
@@tabletopbro if your in the west there’s a Utah monthly they do on Heroscape’s. That’s what I usually attend. Great guys to play with there. Custom waves are constantly being made by the community too so competitive play is still changing. Highly recommend looking into it!
@@tytolley2645 Utah’s a bit of a drive from Southern California, but I’ve been looking on Heroscapers! Speaking of customs, C3G actually just released a new set of officially unofficial Spider-man units!
@@tabletopbro I know!!! Super exciting! I personally stick to original set figures since(mostly because I still have some figures to collect) but customs make the game so expandable and I love it.
There was a back story on heroscapes website which redirects you to Hasbro today. It was a journal entry style story telling. It was actually pretty detailed. I'm pretty sure the final entry was when they found aquila. And then it was turned into DND
Wave 5 was a big misstep. Most previous waves included three blister cards of common squads and one blister card of unique heroes. Wave five had two blister cards of common squads and two blister cards of unique squads and heroes. Players bought multiples of the common blister cards but one each of the unique blister cards. Big box retailers like Wal-Mart and K Mart had Wave 5 cards that sat on the shelves for months until they went on clearance and once that happened, the stores didn't order more Heroscape, at least not for awhile. And that's before the brand got transfered to Wizards of the Coast from Milton Bradley.
This is an insight that I haven’t read before! Like I said in the video, I knew they shit the bed with distribution but never knew how bad it specifically was with Wave 5. Thanks for sharing!
I never played it but I started to find the minis in flea markets in my country, so I started to collect to playedwith them in my Battlemasters boardgame (form the 90s) and they fitted.... very well! I just use the fantasy themed minis. I order some form time to time if they're not expensive. I didn't know why they stopped, very cool video!
I remember getting this and really liking the minis that came in it. I never was able to find anyone to play it with back then though so I never really got to play it.
I was 26 when I started collecting in 2006. There’s still 7 master sets and over 1000 figures living in my closet. It was like a second childhood. So much fun! Some of the tiles have become brittle over the years, but I could set up a game at a moments notice. Ran a four player game at a convention in Reno. I just set up river map running through a forest with four teams of warriors led by a dragon. Everyone that played that day had 0 experience but everyone had a great time.
Me and some of my friends got huge into heroscape. Together, we had four of the base sets and two of most of the expansions. We would have huge battles.
Almost a year later and Heroscape is about to make a return! Hopefully they rerelease the older sets, expansion packs, and landscape sets as a way to help bring it back through nostalgia. Also I didn't know that there were DnD expansion packs. Those sound almost impossible to find. I would love to collect as many as I can to use in my DnD games. When researching for this video, did you ever find the 3D animated shorts for this game? I remember them on the old Hasbro website while this game was still popular and it mostly centered on Sgt. Drake Alexander (God, I can remember that name so well), the Kyrie warrior from the master set, and the soulborg that was blue and white from one of the expansions were fighting against Mimring and legions of Marro warriors. Along with these shorts, I think there was another 80s/90s animated style promotional short for the game too. And if WotC or Hasbro or whoever owns the rights now, needs a writer to drudge up some lore for the game then I would be more than happy to jump right in! I used to do that when I was a teenager and played the game while incorporating the Star Wars Unleashed minis with them. Anyone remember those minifigures?
It's looking like they won't be rereleasing the older sets -- definitely not in the short term as the developers have announced. BUT it does look like they're doing modern takes on some of the rarer old school sets so you get the same effect. If you have the D&D minis from that time period, you should be fine as Wizards literally just rehashed them lmao. I recall the cartoon but I didn't know there was a 3d series about it that's super interesting! I'll send Avalon Hill (the "studio" doing development) a postcard saying you're available lmao
Awesome video! Definitely gonna share with my friends who, like me, always wondered why such a phenomenal tabletop game like Heroscape could ever stop being produced. It seems a shame that due to clumsy marketing skills Heroscape was forever shelved; now I gotta drop big $$$ online just to pick up these single expansion packs that used to go for only $12 (which I still can't believe, honestly). Keep up the good work!
Thanks Matthew! On one hand it IS kinda fun trying to find good deals on eBay. But on the other hand like you said, it sucks paying $50 for something that used to cost $12
I've made a more detailed comment but heroscape didn't fail because of that. There have been many interviews with the designer on the subject and it comes down to Hasbro made the mistake of trusting the game to Wotc and they never wanted to work on it and intentionally slowly killed it.
I quit buying heroscape when Wotc took it over. The fact that they reused d&d minis that were not to scale to original heroscape figures ruined it for me. It just seemed extremely lazy to me and I was not supporting it with my money.
Great analytical video, BeanieTop Bro!! Dude, I have learned so much lol this does not add to your thesis at all, but I NEVER heard of this until you :o
Funny story, when I was in 7th grade in 2005-2006 I drew my own custom characters and sent them in to Hasbro telling them they could mass produce them as long as they gave me free Heroscape figures lol. It was a large expansion set with a cyclops, an orc riding a pterodactyl, an orc riding a triceratops, and a giant brachiosaurus that could carry a bunch of arrow grut squads in a basket tower thing on its back, similar to the giant elephants in LOTR. A few weeks later Hasbro mailed me a letter saying they couldn’t use my designs for legal reasons and gave me a $3 off coupon lmao. When I was 19 I took a Schleich brachiosaurus figure that was scaled accordingly to Heroscape figures and made my custom that could fit 3 arrow grut squads. I called it the Grut War Beast. I tried using the figure in games with friends but it was so huge it could barely move around on the map and I made the defense and life so high nobody could kill it lol.
@@tabletopbro I never did, I wasn’t involved in any of the online forums. I currently don’t have the figure at my house but I’ll try to get some photos to upload soon with the stat card.
there were a couple of webisodes that delved into the story,and almost became the first step of hasbro actually making a cartoon series for it. that being said...despite hasbro pulling the plug its an immensly fun game,expecially when poeple make thier own custom figures...the only downside is that due to Heroscape falling into obscurity,master sets go for about 250-400 bucks online.
I have the Oculus quest 2 and I'm currently playing Demeo. Having had heroscape I wish there was a VR version. They could make so much money on expansion DLC. And you wouldn't have to lug around land tiles anymore everything would be virtual. I wish.
I got a lot of the terrain off of eBay, because I liked using it for other hex based games like Battletech. Being able to stack and make a 3-d hex map was awesome.
5:30 This isn't entirely true. There was an effort make several comic series based on the property (which were actually pretty decent in story and production), as well as two animated short movies. However, the marketing for both were terrible and did not rank in the profit necessary for success.
Heroscape has a chance to come back. There's a crowdfunding push for an all new set that is backwards compatible. Check out hasbro pulse and Heroscape Age of Annihilation if you're like me and missed out on this crazy game back when it was first released!
Yep, the production/distribution SCREW UP of putting unique figure packs in the same box (for retail purchase) as common figure/terrain packs was a MAJOR error. It was ten times worse with the large expansions (terrain and "monster" figures). Did you know that the retailer had to buy a box that contained ONE pack of road-tiles and trees (Road to the Forgotten Forest) and THREE unique large-figure packs (Orm's Return)? Just crazy stupid. Everyone wanted 3, 4, 5, or more packs of the road/tree set but only one large-figure pack. I remember seeing stacks and stacks of Orm's Return at Toys-R-Us.
What a bunch of crap. Nobody cared about just getting common units. Most people bought the entire set each time an expansion came out. Selling to Wizards of the Coast is what killed it when they added the substandard miniatures. Still the best boardgame of all time.
I always thought that Marvel Heroscape had great potential, especially for being a pre-MCU product. A lot of folks got burned out on HeroClix because of blind booster packs filled with crap, and Marvel Heroscape looked like a great way to get that Marvel wargaming fix. Alas, it was not meant to be. 😞 Now we have Crisis Protocol, but who can afford to spend 30 bucks on a single miniature? EDIT: I still have all my Heroscape (inc. non-Marvel), and it is in excellent condition.
I would assume Warhammer enthusiasts. Ya know if they weren’t spending all their money on Warhammer lol. I envy you for still having all your scape still. My parents got rid of mine when I went off for college and rebuying it all is EXPENSIVE
I'm surprised there aren't more reviews or people talking about the game properly. I pretty much got all the expansions and extra units. There were some really lazy smaller expansions which didn't make much sense to exist as their own thing, like a troll on a bridge... But like that was the only character and a bridge build, some trees, and some terrain. Funny enough, if you scale down the figures, and terrain, the amount they were selling, wouldn't have been nearly as bad, of course there were many other issues that plagued the game, such as some tiles not locking properly or locking too well
Hell I think the first issue would be that the original master set came with so many unique units, and the expansions lacked any unique tiles/terrain features. I mean, did we really need four character expansion sets that did little more than provide copious amounts of cannon fodder, for no reason? If anything the boards needed life, as big and open as they were... Also those ruin pieces were terrible, because they went in between tiles, it made them virtually impossible to use effectively because they clashed with EVERYTHING! I would also like to point out, that you missed the Browser based game Hasbro was pushing as well, which did have a paid version!
I had zero idea Hasbro made a browser based version! I think a big misstep for Hasbro is that they didn't really have any idea who their target market was. The original idea was like 8-12 year old boys, but 8-12 year old boys don't TEND to get into the nerdy collecting side of things. I definitely think more actual terrain features would've been a nice addition, but I don't hate the expansions. In fact, I think the game is made better the more additional stuff you have -- which might also contribute to the problem. In terms of your first point -- even though Heroscape feels much bigger in our eyes, the subreddit only has 3000 members, and Heroscapers has 10,000 active members which isn't a whole lot. Most of my current friends have never heard of the game and they're all active tabletoppers.
@@tabletopbro you know it's funny, I didn't know the game existed untill a friend of mine bought it way back when. Sad to say that I gave all my Heroscape stuff to someone else, but man it was a wild ride. As for the expansions, I liked them, but over time began to dislike them. Not because the were particularly bad, or terrible, but because they actually added less to the game, than initially intended over time. Coupled with the lack of lore, backstory, and terrain features, they really fall flat. Like you outlined in the video, a large portion of the problem was the character expansion packs, which, while yes, gave us normal units to buff the armies making Unique units stand out. And a large part of the main master set just revolves around unique units. This creates a really bad paradox where you now need to make up for the lack of "infantry" to be used for normal combat. Which lead to having such egregious tactics with the character expansion packs. I would also like to note that the Character expansion packs also came with some limited terrain, but no features. This leads to having useless amounts of tiles that don't really serve a purpose that normal expansions do. The other issue this amount of spam leads to a lack of room to breathe new life with new models, characters and timelines being thrown into the mix. I fully believe, that if they more slowly released newer units and expansions which then added the plethora of timelines the original game had, and started with maybe a Med/Fantasy vs WWII alt universe military, and then built a narrative around that, the game would have thrived. Also, the 8-12 year range was actually pretty genius, the issue was the quality and timing. They were just a bit too early, and probably would have seen much more success if they had waited about another 2-3 years to launch the product.
Given they several members of the community developing the game along with the OG lead designer, it looks like they did. But ultimately all we can do is hope.
I thought this was another, "oh it's totally coming back even though it's been dead for 12 years because me and my friends like it," comment. But holy shit you're right!
Heroscape is back in production!!!!!! That being said I feel like this video sorta randomly ended. So anyway im surprised you didnt mention the magic the gathering planes walkers sets released years later, not official heroscape but basically was, made by the same guy and same rules with some additional stuff like spell cards to cast. The most noteable feature of that is that most of the squads were not painted and much less plastic terrain, practically none. It utalized cardboard placemats as the battle fied with a few hexigons of typical heroscape terrain to place as hills for the height advate spots, which was weird due to it being a game where the most strategic elemnt is increasing your dice roll odds by utalizing the vertical terrain. That failed i think because though it was mostly heroscape compatable maybe not completely heroscape balanced but it also just didnt feel like heroscape. Choose a general and his squads to summon and the lack of terrain meh, then also the fact that even though it had magic the gathering's name on it it didn't feel anything like fans of the card game would enjoy at all. With the new announcement today that heroscape is back in production!!!!!! I hope a middle ground is met to lessen risk of getting cancelled again. A cardboard placemat for the bottom layer of terrain then a decent amount of plastic terrain all to be used only as a fair amount of hills so less is needed to spread out and make the entire battlefield, to keep the cost to distribute lower. And then as you brought to my attention. The ability for stores to purchase only whatever amounts of packs to seel based on their popularity, not necessarilly being forced to buy entire waves including the packs that specalize in unique figures over and over again.
I know I can't believe it! Yeah Arena of the Plainswalkers is SORT of a successor to it, but like you said there was just too much different. Ultimately it was the community that kept the game alive for 12 years with the C3V and C3G releases. I recently read another story about Hasbro shitting the bed in terms of distribution with Orm's Return/Road to the Forgotten Forest. They were sold to retailers in packages of three -- except instead of two terrain one (unique) unit pack, they did two unit packs, one terrain. So the extra Orm's Return sets while RtFF was, but the retailers didn't want to reup because then they'd have to get the Orm's Return sets. So yes, let's hope they fix that distribution model!
Lack of advertisement and backstory can be harmful for a brand and in this case goes hand in hand. As for the WotC version, they had troubles funding it due to 4th ed DnD being a bomb in its own pitiful right. Heroscape probably died before 4th did but still didn't help WotC was focusing more on its main line. Now, IF Hasbro hands over Heroscape to Avalon Hill to be revamped in a couple of years, then it might do well once again.
So.. does online shopping fix all of these issues? Especially with stores having extra expansions laying around bc the base game runs out. I feel like they could really produce a lot of cool things nowadays, with Marvel having a huge influence on pop culture. They've done a crossover before.
Love this video. Omg this was a lost opportunity for another system. This was like the rifts rpg but for miniatures. So many cool idea s but meh execution. No kidding about the lack of world building. Its a massive universe and they just said here... Play. Sigh. Um heroclix also added to the problems i imagine. Ugh. I alwayd thought what cpulda helped, and kept costs down, was do a 'beginner' set to play on a mat. Get people started and invested and its cheaper. Than introduce the advanced set with the terrain. Im glad folks still remember tbis game.
I'm both shocked and not shocked at how well Heroclix did lmao. I hate the secret booster system, but it clearly worked. That's not a terrible idea! However for me at least, half the fun comes from building the map and how dynamic it is. Though I suppose you DO solve that issue with multiple buying options! If you don't know about Heroscapers I HIGHLY recommend you take a look! Not nearly as active as the good ole days but there's still plenty of enthusiasts!
@@tabletopbro omg the secret packs... I get it from a marketing stand point. But another cool thing about heroscape was you disnt have to buy a bagillion packs to get a unique. Omg i love their site! And i love the stats they made for dc and marvel characters.
But in europe died the game after wave 2 and the first big expansion packs. Some think the plastik was to "toxic" for europe like the "don't lick the tree" meme. + longer a game runs less sales and to many unsaled prints. Even ppl who bougt the game. To light for wargames , to expensive for kids. And to big... But i had a good time an all must end somehow. There are so other diffrent boardgame with their story.
Oh man I never even considered international performance. Those reasons make sense though. I also assume translation yoinked up production costs and like you said, people weren’t buying.
@@tabletopbro not difficult just tedious. To access the tile pieces you have to go thru 3 different bags, then grab your piece, duplicate it, then place it, then lock in place so you don't mess up your map halfway through your game. Wish it was more streamlined
Its weird listening to this and not that I blame you but this is wrong. The cost of Heroscape was not why it has failed and there have been many interviews with the designer on the topic over the years in podcasts and written for where he lays out why Heroscape died. The short version which is still long is Hasbro felt the Heroscape line was similar in scope to what Wotc was producing, so they spun it off to them so they could focus on more simple mass market games and toys and Heroscape could be worked on by a company that knew how to balance more complex games. From the designer Wotc was never happy about this decision and didn't want to handle Heroscape. When the transistion was made behind the scenes before it was announced Wotc canceled the nearly complete Star Wars set and the first wave of the Marvel set. Both IPs would absolute explod in popularity in Marvels case it was already happening Iron Man had already started the MCU, Star Wars was going to take 5 years until the sequel trilogy so only 3-4 until the hype for that set in. They switched it over to D&D which was always a bad move considering D&D was way less accessible and accepted at the time. Despite this the designer says the sets still sold extremely well despite he was vocally against the change. Even up to the last wave it sold well but Wotc decided they had enough and didn't want to work on it anymore and so they canceled it to "Focus on their core brands of Mtg and D&D." So the game didnt die because it was too expensive to produce it died because Wotc didn't want to make the game. Its crazy to think they had a solid game, two massive IPs on lock for it that would have carried the game for years to come through cost increases if they were needed.
plastic molding is not that expensive. the molds are expensive but cost per piece is really low. ive worked in plastic factories for most of my life. plastic is fuckin cheap. especially for a company like hasbro who already has manufacturers.
im 44 sec into the video and im already so glad you made this video.
TY
Thanks Matt! I really appreciate it. I put a lot of work into this one :)
I went to college in my late 20s and early 30s. There were some nerds playing heroscape in the student lounge. It looked cool, and as an avid TT gamer I was in. I got a ton of it, and played for a few years in college. Met my wife, graduated, etc and it all went in a storage tote. Fast forward to 2020 where my 6, 8 and 10 year olds find it and say, "What's this, dad?"
They're all addicted now. I just wish I could get some more water, swamp and lava pieces.
You can occasionally find a good deal on eBay, and if there’s nothing there, all things heroscape sells terrain pieces for not TERRIBLY ridiculous prices
eBay.u might pay arm a leg
Boy do I have some news for you, they just dropped a teaser for their return
New heroscape incoming! Teased at Gencon.
3d printing is your friend 😁
It makes me happy to know that Heroscape is coming back with a brand new set
To quote the lead designer: "No one said anything about a master set"
And once again hasbro has no idea how to handle a product like this so it failed. :(
Yeah, about that….
This aged poorly 😢
ITS BACK
The biggest mistake Hasbro ever did was they never tried to make a TV series for these game sets. I still believe that to this day, Heroscape would still be popular if an animated series launched.
I disagree, but that's an interesting take I never considered!
yes, the promo video/ cartoon was the basis of what could have been a great cartoon..
Solid video. Great editing and presentation overall. Thinking the community is gonna bring it back. With 3d printing in our homes is possible maybe it might be cheaper in some respect. Who knows. The support for the game to find fans and bring more people to try it out and watch content about it helps greatly. Love the vid keep up the great work. Earned a sub
Thanks Joe! Really appreciate it.
It's remarkable how much the community is keeping the game somewhat alive. Especially with the C3V releases that've been coming out steadily for the past decade.
I don't think it'll ever come back in an official capacity, as, even with 3d printing, it's probably just too expensive to keep afloat, but I don't see the fans letting the game die any time soon.
Loved to play with the figurines, never learnt how to play, warhammer is hype RN, went into the store and no one knew what I was talking about. Thanks for sharing it’s exactly what I remembered
Same! A lot of my friends growing up had 0 desire to learn the game's rules, so oftentimes we'd just build a map with the terrain and play around with the units.
I'm surprised by how few people really know the game. It seemed like it was almost the center of my world when I was 12. Glad you enjoyed the video though!
Heroscape really was the battle of all time
The last Christmas that Heroscape was on our Walmart's shelves, they had probably 10 Master Sets left over and started their slow discount. I kept checking back each week as I already had plenty, but who wouldn't pass on more cheap terrain? The last time I went to where they were stocked there were none on the shelves, but the price was $2.50! One person nearby had a copy in their basket. I asked them if they'd be willing to part with it. They said they planned to give it to their grandkids, but they knew someone else had recently picked a copy up too. I searched all around the store and ended up finding them. I offered them DOUBLE (yeah, I know) to buy it from them if I could have it to purchase. They were nice enough to let me have it without paying them.
It's 2021 and I still play Heroscape. Everything is hella expensive now, but it is still super fun. My older brothers were 11 and 13 when Heroscape released, so they jumped on the game as soon as they could. They and their friends would combine their collections to form massive terrain battlefields with hordes of miniatures. Then I got into the game a few years later, and I have loved it ever since.
That’s awesome that you’re still playing! I picked up a master set over the summer for WAAAAYY over the original price. Combining master sets to make ginormous battlefields was always super fun
Tell me about it.i got the vampire character,I have to get,they our rare
Itsssss backkkk
Nailed it on the stocking issue. A year after the cancellation Wal-Mart still had the Marvel set and the Nakita Agents expansion on the shelves.
Avalon Hill agrees👀
I was looking for this game again and found your video, very interesting! 👏
Glad I could be of service!
As of today it’s back!!! So excited to play it. I hope the new one has a better run then the first
Well... sorta. It's on the Has Lab crowdfunding site, and we're only about a third of the way to having it funded with a little more than a month to go. It really seems like it's mostly marketed to those of us who already know and love the game, so for this to succeed there's going to need to be some kind of push to bring in new players.
I got the last set of heros so in my town. Never regretted it. Nowadays the game is super expensive but I still love the monthly tournaments they throw for it. Game community is still going, my collection is still growing. Loved the video. Heroscape is dope.
Oh man I envy you. I think my parents got rid of my collection when I moved out so I’ve had to rebuy everything which sucks.
I should look into local tournaments. I could hardly put together a competitive army but it could be fun!
@@tabletopbro if your in the west there’s a Utah monthly they do on Heroscape’s. That’s what I usually attend. Great guys to play with there.
Custom waves are constantly being made by the community too so competitive play is still changing. Highly recommend looking into it!
@@tytolley2645 Utah’s a bit of a drive from Southern California, but I’ve been looking on Heroscapers!
Speaking of customs, C3G actually just released a new set of officially unofficial Spider-man units!
@@tabletopbro I know!!! Super exciting! I personally stick to original set figures since(mostly because I still have some figures to collect) but customs make the game so expandable and I love it.
There was a back story on heroscapes website which redirects you to Hasbro today. It was a journal entry style story telling. It was actually pretty detailed. I'm pretty sure the final entry was when they found aquila. And then it was turned into DND
Such a shame they bailed on their original story for the quick cash grab
Wave 5 was a big misstep. Most previous waves included three blister cards of common squads and one blister card of unique heroes. Wave five had two blister cards of common squads and two blister cards of unique squads and heroes. Players bought multiples of the common blister cards but one each of the unique blister cards. Big box retailers like Wal-Mart and K Mart had Wave 5 cards that sat on the shelves for months until they went on clearance and once that happened, the stores didn't order more Heroscape, at least not for awhile. And that's before the brand got transfered to Wizards of the Coast from Milton Bradley.
This is an insight that I haven’t read before! Like I said in the video, I knew they shit the bed with distribution but never knew how bad it specifically was with Wave 5. Thanks for sharing!
I never played it but I started to find the minis in flea markets in my country, so I started to collect to playedwith them in my Battlemasters boardgame (form the 90s) and they fitted.... very well! I just use the fantasy themed minis. I order some form time to time if they're not expensive. I didn't know why they stopped, very cool video!
Heroscape was epic! Great explanation on how Hasbro's over site of game mechanic vs sales clashed.
It really was! Thanks for watching!
I remember getting this and really liking the minis that came in it. I never was able to find anyone to play it with back then though so I never really got to play it.
That was always the struggle. A lot my friends didn’t like playing the actual game so there were stretches of time where I had no one to play with
Been trying to figure this out a while myself never realized stores were not able to just purchase packs of commons
I was 26 when I started collecting in 2006. There’s still 7 master sets and over 1000 figures living in my closet. It was like a second childhood. So much fun! Some of the tiles have become brittle over the years, but I could set up a game at a moments notice. Ran a four player game at a convention in Reno. I just set up river map running through a forest with four teams of warriors led by a dragon. Everyone that played that day had 0 experience but everyone had a great time.
Freaking jealous!
I think that's one of the pros to Heroscape vs. like Warhammer. It's STUPIDLY easy to get new players into it!
Me and some of my friends got huge into heroscape. Together, we had four of the base sets and two of most of the expansions. We would have huge battles.
That sounds awesome!
I have 2 of the master sets and 3rd one on the way
Almost a year later and Heroscape is about to make a return! Hopefully they rerelease the older sets, expansion packs, and landscape sets as a way to help bring it back through nostalgia.
Also I didn't know that there were DnD expansion packs. Those sound almost impossible to find. I would love to collect as many as I can to use in my DnD games.
When researching for this video, did you ever find the 3D animated shorts for this game? I remember them on the old Hasbro website while this game was still popular and it mostly centered on Sgt. Drake Alexander (God, I can remember that name so well), the Kyrie warrior from the master set, and the soulborg that was blue and white from one of the expansions were fighting against Mimring and legions of Marro warriors. Along with these shorts, I think there was another 80s/90s animated style promotional short for the game too.
And if WotC or Hasbro or whoever owns the rights now, needs a writer to drudge up some lore for the game then I would be more than happy to jump right in! I used to do that when I was a teenager and played the game while incorporating the Star Wars Unleashed minis with them. Anyone remember those minifigures?
It's looking like they won't be rereleasing the older sets -- definitely not in the short term as the developers have announced. BUT it does look like they're doing modern takes on some of the rarer old school sets so you get the same effect.
If you have the D&D minis from that time period, you should be fine as Wizards literally just rehashed them lmao.
I recall the cartoon but I didn't know there was a 3d series about it that's super interesting!
I'll send Avalon Hill (the "studio" doing development) a postcard saying you're available lmao
Awesome video! Definitely gonna share with my friends who, like me, always wondered why such a phenomenal tabletop game like Heroscape could ever stop being produced. It seems a shame that due to clumsy marketing skills Heroscape was forever shelved; now I gotta drop big $$$ online just to pick up these single expansion packs that used to go for only $12 (which I still can't believe, honestly). Keep up the good work!
Thanks Matthew! On one hand it IS kinda fun trying to find good deals on eBay. But on the other hand like you said, it sucks paying $50 for something that used to cost $12
I've made a more detailed comment but heroscape didn't fail because of that. There have been many interviews with the designer on the subject and it comes down to Hasbro made the mistake of trusting the game to Wotc and they never wanted to work on it and intentionally slowly killed it.
Just played Heroscape this past weekend. Still have chests full of terrain and every single expansion set that was released. Such a good game.
That's awesome! Count yourself lucky they didn't get thrown out over the years like what happened to me 😅
Ohhhhh so that's what it is. You're unlocking vague memories of seeing this in stores. If I got it as a kid I know I would have gotten deep into it.
I meeeeeean they’re bringing it back so you have a second chance to get deep into it 🤷🏻♂️
@@tabletopbro 👀
I quit buying heroscape when Wotc took it over. The fact that they reused d&d minis that were not to scale to original heroscape figures ruined it for me. It just seemed extremely lazy to me and I was not supporting it with my money.
Great analytical video, BeanieTop Bro!! Dude, I have learned so much lol this does not add to your thesis at all, but I NEVER heard of this until you :o
Needs a haircut bro lmao. It’s definitely a niche game. But it’s certainly got it’s cult following
Looks like Heroscape is back on the menu, boys!
Really well made video dude! I’m excited to see your channel grow
Thanks Ben!
Funny story, when I was in 7th grade in 2005-2006 I drew my own custom characters and sent them in to Hasbro telling them they could mass produce them as long as they gave me free Heroscape figures lol. It was a large expansion set with a cyclops, an orc riding a pterodactyl, an orc riding a triceratops, and a giant brachiosaurus that could carry a bunch of arrow grut squads in a basket tower thing on its back, similar to the giant elephants in LOTR. A few weeks later Hasbro mailed me a letter saying they couldn’t use my designs for legal reasons and gave me a $3 off coupon lmao. When I was 19 I took a Schleich brachiosaurus figure that was scaled accordingly to Heroscape figures and made my custom that could fit 3 arrow grut squads. I called it the Grut War Beast. I tried using the figure in games with friends but it was so huge it could barely move around on the map and I made the defense and life so high nobody could kill it lol.
Dude that’s sick! Did you post it anywhere? I’d love to see it!
@@tabletopbro I never did, I wasn’t involved in any of the online forums. I currently don’t have the figure at my house but I’ll try to get some photos to upload soon with the stat card.
Aaaaaaand it's back! Heroscape lives again!
3D Printing is the way
Aaaaaaand it’s been risen from the dead!
Can truly say I didn't see it coming!
And Heroscape is back!
there were a couple of webisodes that delved into the story,and almost became the first step of hasbro actually making a cartoon series for it.
that being said...despite hasbro pulling the plug its an immensly fun game,expecially when poeple make thier own custom figures...the only downside is that due to Heroscape falling into obscurity,master sets go for about 250-400 bucks online.
Good video, I like the editing and all the facts.
Good comment, I like the... uh... I had something for this
Hey, with the recent crowdfunding attempt, you can now do a sequel video. What killed Heroscape... again!
Plenty of people in the community have already written that one lmao
Great rundown and analytics
Thanks Kimo! I appreciate it
There's a kickstarter out right now that hopes to revive the IP. Search for Heroscape Age of Annihilation
Oh I know 😎
I have the Oculus quest 2 and I'm currently playing Demeo. Having had heroscape I wish there was a VR version. They could make so much money on expansion DLC. And you wouldn't have to lug around land tiles anymore everything would be virtual. I wish.
if you get tabletop sim, there is a mod that adds heroscape and all its expansions. its also vr compatible.
I got a lot of the terrain off of eBay, because I liked using it for other hex based games like Battletech. Being able to stack and make a 3-d hex map was awesome.
The terrain’s my favorite part of the game😂
Ah, I see that you're cultured
We have a big box full of Heroscape stuff, my kids and I played maybe 4 times total.
Well the good news is they're bringing it back! So it's relevant again!
Nailed it with that first reason. Hopefully, Renegade learns from the past.
Heroscape is back
5:30 This isn't entirely true. There was an effort make several comic series based on the property (which were actually pretty decent in story and production), as well as two animated short movies. However, the marketing for both were terrible and did not rank in the profit necessary for success.
I didn't find out about them until I started making videos and got more involved in the community. Which isn't IDEAL for your game's lore.
Heroscape has a chance to come back. There's a crowdfunding push for an all new set that is backwards compatible. Check out hasbro pulse and Heroscape Age of Annihilation if you're like me and missed out on this crazy game back when it was first released!
You haven’t seen my other videos have you😉
Yep, the production/distribution SCREW UP of putting unique figure packs in the same box (for retail purchase) as common figure/terrain packs was a MAJOR error. It was ten times worse with the large expansions (terrain and "monster" figures). Did you know that the retailer had to buy a box that contained ONE pack of road-tiles and trees (Road to the Forgotten Forest) and THREE unique large-figure packs (Orm's Return)? Just crazy stupid. Everyone wanted 3, 4, 5, or more packs of the road/tree set but only one large-figure pack. I remember seeing stacks and stacks of Orm's Return at Toys-R-Us.
That would explain why you can still get Orm's Return for dirt cheap!
I remeber deux pages adds in comoc books (the adds themself being comic book story with some background)
What a bunch of crap. Nobody cared about just getting common units. Most people bought the entire set each time an expansion came out. Selling to Wizards of the Coast is what killed it when they added the substandard miniatures. Still the best boardgame of all time.
There's kinda lore in Thormun's journal but hard to find :/
I always thought that Marvel Heroscape had great potential, especially for being a pre-MCU product. A lot of folks got burned out on HeroClix because of blind booster packs filled with crap, and Marvel Heroscape looked like a great way to get that Marvel wargaming fix. Alas, it was not meant to be. 😞 Now we have Crisis Protocol, but who can afford to spend 30 bucks on a single miniature?
EDIT: I still have all my Heroscape (inc. non-Marvel), and it is in excellent condition.
I would assume Warhammer enthusiasts. Ya know if they weren’t spending all their money on Warhammer lol.
I envy you for still having all your scape still. My parents got rid of mine when I went off for college and rebuying it all is EXPENSIVE
I'm surprised there aren't more reviews or people talking about the game properly.
I pretty much got all the expansions and extra units.
There were some really lazy smaller expansions which didn't make much sense to exist as their own thing, like a troll on a bridge... But like that was the only character and a bridge build, some trees, and some terrain.
Funny enough, if you scale down the figures, and terrain, the amount they were selling, wouldn't have been nearly as bad, of course there were many other issues that plagued the game, such as some tiles not locking properly or locking too well
Hell I think the first issue would be that the original master set came with so many unique units, and the expansions lacked any unique tiles/terrain features.
I mean, did we really need four character expansion sets that did little more than provide copious amounts of cannon fodder, for no reason?
If anything the boards needed life, as big and open as they were...
Also those ruin pieces were terrible, because they went in between tiles, it made them virtually impossible to use effectively because they clashed with EVERYTHING!
I would also like to point out, that you missed the Browser based game Hasbro was pushing as well, which did have a paid version!
I had zero idea Hasbro made a browser based version! I think a big misstep for Hasbro is that they didn't really have any idea who their target market was. The original idea was like 8-12 year old boys, but 8-12 year old boys don't TEND to get into the nerdy collecting side of things.
I definitely think more actual terrain features would've been a nice addition, but I don't hate the expansions. In fact, I think the game is made better the more additional stuff you have -- which might also contribute to the problem.
In terms of your first point -- even though Heroscape feels much bigger in our eyes, the subreddit only has 3000 members, and Heroscapers has 10,000 active members which isn't a whole lot. Most of my current friends have never heard of the game and they're all active tabletoppers.
@@tabletopbro you know it's funny, I didn't know the game existed untill a friend of mine bought it way back when.
Sad to say that I gave all my Heroscape stuff to someone else, but man it was a wild ride.
As for the expansions, I liked them, but over time began to dislike them.
Not because the were particularly bad, or terrible, but because they actually added less to the game, than initially intended over time.
Coupled with the lack of lore, backstory, and terrain features, they really fall flat.
Like you outlined in the video, a large portion of the problem was the character expansion packs, which, while yes, gave us normal units to buff the armies making Unique units stand out.
And a large part of the main master set just revolves around unique units.
This creates a really bad paradox where you now need to make up for the lack of "infantry" to be used for normal combat.
Which lead to having such egregious tactics with the character expansion packs.
I would also like to note that the Character expansion packs also came with some limited terrain, but no features.
This leads to having useless amounts of tiles that don't really serve a purpose that normal expansions do.
The other issue this amount of spam leads to a lack of room to breathe new life with new models, characters and timelines being thrown into the mix.
I fully believe, that if they more slowly released newer units and expansions which then added the plethora of timelines the original game had, and started with maybe a Med/Fantasy vs WWII alt universe military, and then built a narrative around that, the game would have thrived.
Also, the 8-12 year range was actually pretty genius, the issue was the quality and timing.
They were just a bit too early, and probably would have seen much more success if they had waited about another 2-3 years to launch the product.
One month later I'm still watching lol, I'm really sad this didn't survive...
@@ultris07 Oh man, what an honor! Me too man, me too
More Heroscape vids! Well done!
Thanks! I’ve got several others on my channel you should totally check out
@@tabletopbro definitely will man. You do a great job. Very well made
I was lucky to buy both master packs but...unfortunatly i think i sold them in a garage sale. Maybe. Might need to look in our new garage
Great video!
Thanks Bryan!
I loved this and I want it back.
It’s still (sort of) around! The community’s been making unofficial units for 11 years.
Let's hope they learned from their mistake on this second go around
Given they several members of the community developing the game along with the OG lead designer, it looks like they did. But ultimately all we can do is hope.
It’s coming back baby!
I thought this was another, "oh it's totally coming back even though it's been dead for 12 years because me and my friends like it," comment. But holy shit you're right!
@@tabletopbro haha yeah man can’t believe it! We’ll see how much they want for it though!
It's back!
Against the odds!
Amazing video!
There's a story on the cartoon,they explained,they bring hero's in time to killed the new era group of evil
Heroscape is back in production!!!!!!
That being said I feel like this video sorta randomly ended. So anyway im surprised you didnt mention the magic the gathering planes walkers sets released years later, not official heroscape but basically was, made by the same guy and same rules with some additional stuff like spell cards to cast. The most noteable feature of that is that most of the squads were not painted and much less plastic terrain, practically none. It utalized cardboard placemats as the battle fied with a few hexigons of typical heroscape terrain to place as hills for the height advate spots, which was weird due to it being a game where the most strategic elemnt is increasing your dice roll odds by utalizing the vertical terrain. That failed i think because though it was mostly heroscape compatable maybe not completely heroscape balanced but it also just didnt feel like heroscape. Choose a general and his squads to summon and the lack of terrain meh, then also the fact that even though it had magic the gathering's name on it it didn't feel anything like fans of the card game would enjoy at all.
With the new announcement today that heroscape is back in production!!!!!! I hope a middle ground is met to lessen risk of getting cancelled again. A cardboard placemat for the bottom layer of terrain then a decent amount of plastic terrain all to be used only as a fair amount of hills so less is needed to spread out and make the entire battlefield, to keep the cost to distribute lower. And then as you brought to my attention. The ability for stores to purchase only whatever amounts of packs to seel based on their popularity, not necessarilly being forced to buy entire waves including the packs that specalize in unique figures over and over again.
I know I can't believe it!
Yeah Arena of the Plainswalkers is SORT of a successor to it, but like you said there was just too much different. Ultimately it was the community that kept the game alive for 12 years with the C3V and C3G releases.
I recently read another story about Hasbro shitting the bed in terms of distribution with Orm's Return/Road to the Forgotten Forest. They were sold to retailers in packages of three -- except instead of two terrain one (unique) unit pack, they did two unit packs, one terrain. So the extra Orm's Return sets while RtFF was, but the retailers didn't want to reup because then they'd have to get the Orm's Return sets.
So yes, let's hope they fix that distribution model!
Love the video and I miss the game so much I want the tiles for d&d more then playing the actual game
The tiles were really the GOAT. We had a chance to get it back but Hasbro shit the bed.
Lack of advertisement and backstory can be harmful for a brand and in this case goes hand in hand. As for the WotC version, they had troubles funding it due to 4th ed DnD being a bomb in its own pitiful right. Heroscape probably died before 4th did but still didn't help WotC was focusing more on its main line. Now, IF Hasbro hands over Heroscape to Avalon Hill to be revamped in a couple of years, then it might do well once again.
While that'd be awesome as fans, I'm 99% sure Heroscape's never coming back officially.
Just found an unopened swarm of the marro in perfect condition and I really want to play it lol
Sell it on eBay for an absurd amount of money and buy an out of box set to play with.
So.. does online shopping fix all of these issues? Especially with stores having extra expansions laying around bc the base game runs out. I feel like they could really produce a lot of cool things nowadays, with Marvel having a huge influence on pop culture. They've done a crossover before.
theoretically, but I don't think Hasbro will ever bring it back unfortunately.
This is one of the few things from my childhood I actually held onto... Still looking for those Pokemon cards though...
If you don't play you can definitely make a pretty penny off it now.
Love this video. Omg this was a lost opportunity for another system. This was like the rifts rpg but for miniatures. So many cool idea s but meh execution.
No kidding about the lack of world building. Its a massive universe and they just said here... Play. Sigh.
Um heroclix also added to the problems i imagine. Ugh.
I alwayd thought what cpulda helped, and kept costs down, was do a 'beginner' set to play on a mat. Get people started and invested and its cheaper.
Than introduce the advanced set with the terrain.
Im glad folks still remember tbis game.
I'm both shocked and not shocked at how well Heroclix did lmao. I hate the secret booster system, but it clearly worked.
That's not a terrible idea! However for me at least, half the fun comes from building the map and how dynamic it is. Though I suppose you DO solve that issue with multiple buying options!
If you don't know about Heroscapers I HIGHLY recommend you take a look! Not nearly as active as the good ole days but there's still plenty of enthusiasts!
@@tabletopbro omg the secret packs... I get it from a marketing stand point.
But another cool thing about heroscape was you disnt have to buy a bagillion packs to get a unique.
Omg i love their site! And i love the stats they made for dc and marvel characters.
There rare now,they make good d&d character.
Knowing these mistakes, and seeing how much people liked it, I bet they could reboot it. #rebootheroscape
It'd be nice, but I doubt it'd ever happen. Fortunately the community's been doing a great job keeping the game alive with the C3V and SoV releases!
Heroscape lives!
Love this game
Now you can just play it on tabletop simulator
Raw plastic is cheep af, its the painting that cost them
HS is BACK!
You should check out my other videos😉
Never saw this game ever
Sick, you should still check it out
@@tabletopbro
unlikely, I dont know anyone that might have it, and ordering it is just too expensive
Its been announced there will be a revival!!!!!
I know! I’ve been following along reigiously
But in europe died the game after wave 2 and the first big expansion packs. Some think the plastik was to "toxic" for europe like the "don't lick the tree" meme.
+ longer a game runs less sales and to many unsaled prints. Even ppl who bougt the game. To light for wargames , to expensive for kids.
And to big...
But i had a good time an all must end somehow.
There are so other diffrent boardgame with their story.
Oh man I never even considered international performance.
Those reasons make sense though. I also assume translation yoinked up production costs and like you said, people weren’t buying.
I wish there was a heroscape game like on tabletop but easier to play
Is the Tabletop Simulator version difficult to play? I’ve never tried
@@tabletopbro not difficult just tedious. To access the tile pieces you have to go thru 3 different bags, then grab your piece, duplicate it, then place it, then lock in place so you don't mess up your map halfway through your game. Wish it was more streamlined
15 years ago... it was the time to get this game 😭🤑. It was also the best time to invest in stocks !
I downt remember i wasent born.
wait! two cartoons?
There were two cartoons??
Its weird listening to this and not that I blame you but this is wrong. The cost of Heroscape was not why it has failed and there have been many interviews with the designer on the topic over the years in podcasts and written for where he lays out why Heroscape died. The short version which is still long is Hasbro felt the Heroscape line was similar in scope to what Wotc was producing, so they spun it off to them so they could focus on more simple mass market games and toys and Heroscape could be worked on by a company that knew how to balance more complex games. From the designer Wotc was never happy about this decision and didn't want to handle Heroscape. When the transistion was made behind the scenes before it was announced Wotc canceled the nearly complete Star Wars set and the first wave of the Marvel set. Both IPs would absolute explod in popularity in Marvels case it was already happening Iron Man had already started the MCU, Star Wars was going to take 5 years until the sequel trilogy so only 3-4 until the hype for that set in. They switched it over to D&D which was always a bad move considering D&D was way less accessible and accepted at the time. Despite this the designer says the sets still sold extremely well despite he was vocally against the change. Even up to the last wave it sold well but Wotc decided they had enough and didn't want to work on it anymore and so they canceled it to "Focus on their core brands of Mtg and D&D."
So the game didnt die because it was too expensive to produce it died because Wotc didn't want to make the game. Its crazy to think they had a solid game, two massive IPs on lock for it that would have carried the game for years to come through cost increases if they were needed.
Live damn you
Live
What killed Heroscape? Nothing there’s a master set coming soon.
U left out them trying to mash it together with magic the gathering a few years after dnd failed and only gave 3 terrain pieces
Who the hell actually followed the unique unit rule
Most people
plastic molding is not that expensive. the molds are expensive but cost per piece is really low. ive worked in plastic factories for most of my life. plastic is fuckin cheap. especially for a company like hasbro who already has manufacturers.
That makes sense
@@tabletopbro its weird they made those decisions. i played heroscape back in like 2010 and i was looking into playing with a few buddies.
Better games. End of video.
fake news
@@tabletopbro 😂
The DND expansion broke killed the game
I think it wasn't performing as well as Hasbro would have hoped before they tossed it over to WoTC and went Dungeonscape.
Dude, likes air quotes.