LDS Prepper here on TH-cam did this with his greenhouse having the intake and the discharge all inside the greenhouse. In the winter of Idaho he was able to keep it above freezing just running some corrugated pipe in the ground and a fan to move the air.
We could use parabolic mirrors to heat our homes in winter. Especially thermal mass walls. Have a few around the yard redirecting sunlight at the house all day.
Good video. Might I suggest that success in a geo air system is dependent on which thermal mass is utilized: inside the footprint of the greenhouse where it is actively managed, or outside the greenhouse where you're dealing primarily with the prevailing ground temperature. If you're just pulling from the prevailing ground temperature, you're right that it's rather low for most of the US and over the course of a winter you're likely to gradually deplete it. If you're using the ground beneath the greenhouse and can pump excess heat into it, you're no longer stuck with the prevailing ground temperature. That's why systems in Colorado tend to work well: high solar gain to "charge" the soil beneath the structure, despite ground temperatures that are normally in the 40s and 50s Fahrenheit.
I have yet hear of it being done but one way to use any low grade geo system is to insulate the glazed surface of a greenhouse. Add a second layer of plastic panel or sheet six inches inside the outer and run the lower temp air sourced outside the insulated footprint through that space. If your greenhouse gets the beniffit of a ten or twenty degree F increase from raising the average ground temps within it's perimeter this will make the difference even greater across all that glazing in colder climes. By using an outer loop you could effectively cut the temp difference in half or less and the heat loss with it. It won't help the short winter days but you could almost grow tomatoes in 40 below without additional heating then.
Thank you for another wonderful video. Concise and condensed information tailored for people like me to take the leap into a purposeful and healthy at home hobby. You inspire me to do more research. You definitely have a niche in this green diy media. One idea I would extend is the geothermal air heat transfer (gaht) system in northern us latitudes uses perforated drain pipe. The ground/soil reduces humidity in the greenhouse which is important for plant health. Thanks for mentioning others in your field!
I sure like your pace of speech, clear articulation and very interesting subject. 🐸 Getting ready to convert my shed to a greenhouse… the shed butts up against a 3’ hillside. It’s on the north side… : ) thanks 🐸 … more motivated than ever…
Simple. My ground temperate is a roughly 52-56f in Connecticut. I have a 4x5x13ft(about 8ft of water) garden water well and I am considering installing a 4x5x6 greenhouse on top of it. Currently the top of the well lid never freezes, so I know it can be done! Thankyou for all the ideas.
I made a simple 12 ft by 9 ft glass greenhouse (biggest I'm allowed without a building permit here in Victoria BC) with an about 2 ft high raised bed on the north side and an about 14 inch raised bed on the south side with a pathway inbetween. I have water storage directly underneath both planters with more water under the north side one than the south side one (I have videos about it). I blow air through pipes under both planters to cool the greenhouse air and warm the soil. I have minimal ventilation. The air is blown by old computer fans from an obsolete computer down into the plastic 2 inch pipes and powered by a 15 watt or 30 watt solar panel. Definitely, I wished I had wider diameter pipes or a more powerful fan. One pipe goes under the water so the air gets cooled more, usually 8 to 10 C cooler when it comes out but on a really hot day, up to 15 C cooler. The condensed water in this pipe that passes through the water storage is significant. 1ts around 4oo ml per day on the hotter days. Turns out the heat given out to the soil or water when condensation occurs is massive. The only real innovation I have is that I send the air down from the computer fans near the glass roof through "temporary plastic downspout" which is a clear plastic "tube" that they hang down to take rain off roofs in new construction while they await the real downspouts. It's clear so it doesn't stop light getting to the plants. All in all, I am really happy with it so far, and very pleased with the amount of thermal energy I trap in the soil and water to keep the greenhouse warmer at night and prevent nasty spikes of heat during the day.
You can also cover the pit with long compost biomaterial, like woodchips n stuff. Will insulate and give heat in long run, and also can be used as growing bed.
Glad I have a dug well next to mine, 36 ft deep and 10 ft round, Temp stays around 58 degrees year round, I have it running thru a old semi radiator. It works great for 10 months of the year but Jan and Feb have to add about 10 degrees if I want to grow luckily I don't need that much food.
I am currently in the process of building my own greenhouse split geothermal system. I am using both methods and combining them. I will be circulating air underground around 4' deep. I will also be creating my own geothermal liquid loop that will use the same hole. I am then going to have the liquid lines run through a self made "air handler" where a radiator will then cool the geothermal air coming in from underground. I am hand digging a 30' L x 3' W x 4' D with a pick axe and shovel. So you technically don't need an excavator! lol Some other things I am doing differently than others is adding a "fresh air intake" into my system. So the air being recirculated from the greenhouse will get mixed with outdoor ambient air which is typically 8-10 degrees lower. Lastly I am going to be building some "Dehumidification Chambers" or basically desiccant chambers that will pull out as much moisture as it can as the air passes by. I will have 1 chamber on the return and 1 on the supply sides of the system. Basically just going to be some cloth material socks that will hang inside of my 6" return pipe and as the air moves past them they will slowly draw additional moisture from the system. I am in Zone 7b and have summers with 100 degree days and 100% humidity. I have to combine many methods into my greenhouse to achieve cooling effects. I also have a wind tunnel layout to my exhaust and circulating fans. I will need to balance all of these systems so that I can achieve greenhouse temperatures that do not exceed 90 degrees F. My goal is to achieve a max of 15 degrees of cooling/heating inside my 16'x32' high tunnel greenhouse.
Very interesting, thank you. I was thinking about just having an air tube of a couple hundred feet, ten feet down. As simple as you can get. 6" PVC. But the water system looks to be more efficient, and very simple.
Really like your videos!! I live in zone 6, 90s in summer 20s and lower in winter. Most heating and cooling videos on TH-cam are Canadian. Would you consider doing a video based on zones and desired greenhouse temps. For clarity on my question, if I wanted to grow greens 50-75 year round or tomatoes 70-90 year round in a zone, how would I design a system? Im not asking you to do a special video for me (as awesome as that would be) but I'm guessing there are a lot of people like me in areas that need both real heat and real cooling and don't want to rely on affordable gas or electric in the future. Thanks in advance for considering my request.
Love your channel and the informative videos. I started experimenting with aircrete last year. I don't believe aircrete will work as insulation in earth sourced heat storage unless is dried and sealed. The aircrete I've made becomes water logged in the rain. something like an industrial pond liner or maybe a poly bag which is then put under mild vacuum would be a good idea.
@@SimpleTek I've made Portland cement/foam type. Initially when made and dried it will float in water for quite awhile but it slowly takes on water and sinks. There is another type made in factories called autoclaved aerated concrete (AAC). This type may actually be waterproof. It's a vastly different product than an at home DIY aircrete. I really like your channel and willingness to explore many different options to solve problems. You sunk me down the rabbit hole of compost heating for The last month or so. Im even further north than you and you are one of the few who consider the northern climates in your thought process.
Check out styrocrete. The video claims that it is easier to make, better consistency, better R value, lighter etc.. I hope to be trying it out this summer.
Sometimes I see air circulated into a house via pipes underground. That is a big health risk because of the unavoidable mould forming in underground pipes.
The air systems- the hole is surrounded with insulation and the system heats the ground all summer so in winter the insulated ground is warmer - ground battery. And in winter the greenhouse can still get 100* so the fan warms up the ground to use at night. Kind of like what you are talking about with warming up with solar collector for liquid lines.
The price of a geothermal heating system in Scandinavia costs around US $ 19,000-33,000 depending on the size of the house. The geothermal heat pump lasts 14-20 years.
There exist pumps that work 30+years. The compessor sometimes break 14-20 years, costing €2500. Whole pump cost €6000. +geoCooling does not need a compressor.
At my latitude and with a well insulated concrete house, I need cooling during 1..5 days per year, I have not bothered yet to take the cooling in use, even when I already have all HW needed. -> I use our 210m deep heatwell only for house+water heating via a heat pump.
Thank you! Great video!!! How about in Wilton Connecticut? Seems like it would work even better than those colder climates you mentioned… we are in Grow Zone 6b How would you modify your suggestions for Connecticut grow zone 6b?
I have to agree. Love the content. Would like to be able to watch it again and again, but can't handle listening to the music and the talking at the same time. Hopeful, you dropped the music in your later videos.
Here's another idea: dig a deep hole for a 4000 gal septic tank. Place the tank and run water lines (for heat exchange) inside it, then insulate the top of the tank. Cover it with at least 4 ft of dirt. Use the water tank to collect rain water, then use it for irrigation.
A blower would work much better than a fan for an air system due to the higher static pressures they can achieve. This is why they use them in automotive and building HVAC systems. Liquid circulating pumps use much less energy to move water (and heat) than a fan or blower moving air.
If you're heating the ground use sand or clay in your trench. Rocket mass heaters use clay to absorb and emit heat, Sand is also a great way to store thermal energy. Someone smarter then me would need to do the calculations, but I'm sure that the stored thermal energy would more then offset the cost. This would only be for heat however not for cooling.
do you have a Heat and Material Balance calculation example for any of these ideas. Friend of mine in Canada had a heat sink swimming pool in their basement that was solar heated/cooled and it passively heated/cooled the whole 2,000 sqft house. . Plus it was a YEAR ROUND swimming pool.
Love your content. I am in tropical climate and need to cool my greenhouse, it’s humid, so geothermal liquid cooling! The inside gets to 34 degrees in summer, and I need it to be max 22 degrees, is that possible?
I was hoping for some math. The underground swimming pool I think works if it is large enough, and I like the idea of using solar collectors to heat it during the summer but the math has to work
Question, I want a low grade geo-air system for greenhouse, in your image at 3:57 it shows the air vent coming from the outside. Why not make it grab the air from within the greenhouse and keep it closed?
With this type of green house heating what are your concerns with radon in the green house? I live in North West Wyoming where radon gas is a major concern.
I can't see a liquid transfer system being an issue as it's sealed from the ground - an air transfer system might be an issue if it has moisture drain holes - but you don't live in there, your plants do - radon is bad for humans, not plants - and greenhouses often have massive air filtration in the day via vents and fans when humans are in them - unlike houses... I'm no DR - so I don't know., but I don't see it as a huge problem but that all depends on the levels on radon. I would assume levels that would start to be bad in a house would take much higher concentrations to be bad in a greenhouse - depending on setup
@@SimpleTek have you ever tested your green house for radon level? I asked the guy in Nebraska about this issue and got a none answer. I have a friend that wants to have a green house on the south side of their house and connected.
Love the video.... can u share some more information on implemented projects on geothermal cooling.... Geothermal cooling looks to be the only option (if it were available here) to economically cool greenhouses around where i live..... I live in an area with high humidity throughout the year, 4 months of near constant rain (~4500mm/year) with temperatures (~31°c) and humidity 85%+, hot summers (38°C+)....
Oh, hi. I live in Victoria BC Canada. I got a CO2 meter to experiment with about 2 months ago. One thing I am interested in is CO2 enhancement, in my pretty well sealed greenhouse. I want it as well sealed as possible to keep in the heat, but then I need to input CO2 because nature won't do it for me. First of all, I didn't realize how high CO2 levels are in houses in Canada. So, 2 months ago my inside air was over 800 ppm when I first tested. My greenhouse is in a treed area, and the air around it was about 380 ppm around midday while in the greenhouse it was around 560 (Lots of organic matter under the soil will give me a couple of months of above normal CO2 in the greenhouse until it rots away and the plants really start growing. Anyway, plants ideal CO2 levels are 1000 to 1200 ppm ( same as a stuffy office or classroom) But human requirements for CO2 is "as low as possible, so indoors 500 or 600 would be good. Not only that, but it turns out high CO2 levels co-relate to a higher risk of spreading Covid, (They are using CO2 meters in some schools, in Canada, Germany and the USA as a proxy to measure Covid risk!). So, my thought is, why not couple house ventilation somewhat with your greenhouse heat and CO2 requirements? When I got my crawl space sealed a few months ago, I left a 4 inch pipe so I can use a fan as necessary to blow air out and into the greenhouse, I suspect the crawl space will have the highest CO2 levels in the house and blowing from there will also lose me the least heat. Maybe you could look into doing a video about coupling a house to a greenhouse and doing 2 jobs at once. Reduce the CO2 in your house, while getting air changes and helping the plants grow faster in the greenhouse.
@@johnwyman6126 I don't see why not, if you have the space. But bylaws here mean that I don't have enough room. One day, I read up and found that my greenhouse (10 sq meters) when full of green stuff growing on a sunny day, used almost the same amount of CO2 as 1 person exhaled. So, absolutely, you could have a maybe 2 inch or 3 inch pipe going from your crawl space to the greenhouse and it would help your plants big time when you blow your house air to the plants. (And it helps you too because you can replace some of your stale carbonated house air with freshly oxygenated greenhouse air.)
Hi Simple Tek, Let me ask if I don't have lots of land but if I can have a septic tank concrete or fiberglass min. 6 ft down from top of tank and I fill it with hoses in loops the cover it with soil at some everything inside the tank is going to be at the same temp. This way I can have enough liquid to run the radiator all day and not worry of running out. What do you think? I appreciate your help. Thanks 👍
It works in theory but the amount of thermal mass is limited unless you have a 30,000 gallon septic tank. Most residential tanks are 1000-2000 gallons, so not really big enough
i dont think the ground will hold the heat from summer all the way to winter, it probably dissipates in a week or even a couple days. even without extracting heat i think it will only stay at the the temp that the collectors can collect, ie how much sun in the last day or two. maybe insulating the ground is needed as well idk. and for heating with a thermal battery you would want a cylinder or cube since there is less surface area the colder ground beside it can sap heat from it.
We need to cool down our greenhouses as much as possible here in the tropics. Average of 30-50 deg C all year round. Would liquid or air cooling work best or?
Ground temperature starting around 6 feet deep is equal to annual average air temperature (day and night and all seasons). For example we live near Puerto Vallarta and the average annual air temperature is 23.5 C so the ground temperature would be the same. Some say you need to go 30 feet to get consistent temperature but the difference in temperature between 6 feet and 30 feet isn’t significant but the effort to dig is much greater. The most efficient heat exchanger fluid is water. If you have a well, using well water through the radiator/fan is efficient. However, you need a dump for the well water. Perhaps a second injection well located far enough from the extraction well would work.
With homes there is the option to have a vertical liquid geothermal system. Could this work with a greenhouse? I understand that it would be more expensive. I just want to know if it is feasable.
Just watched the section of the video about injecting heat into the ground during the summer to use in the winter and am wondering if it’s possible to work that in reverse? I live in TX so need more cooking for a greenhouse than heat. Is it possible to inject cold into the ground the same way you would heat?
What do you mean by insulating the bottom of the green house? Putting a layer on top of the pipes? So the heat stays below the insulation and does not escape inside the green house?
@@SimpleTek I understand your comment. Has there been discussion about not worrying about the immediate soil needing to heat up? Say 2 feet of top soild. A layer of 4" insulation (like a cooler lid) then sand or gravel and pipes. Two layers of pipes. The top layer will fluctuate moderately but the climate battery "could hold more thermo mass? If it had a lid?
@@SimpleTek I am planning on building a straw bale wallipini version at our farm this spring. Finally)! Arthur Ontario. My biggest stress point is drainage. I will need to build a long trench from the proposed area to a lower spot. Such that it will not flood the air exchange tubes. The back wall will be made out of straw bales and double stud wall 2x4's and likely sheet steel maybe cob on the inside? Not sure how deep I will dig down. Since the deeper our passive solare green house the longer my drainage trench will need to be.... Thanks again for the videos and tips/dialogue. Very encouraging!
EXCELLENT COMMENT! I'm about to post a video that explains exactly how to do that (it's for a greenhouse but it will work for a house too) - sorry I've been sick and slow on recent videos - maybe a day or two and I'll get it up
I'm late to the party... forgive my ignorance. Can you please link me a video to show how a liquid vs air system(s) work? I'm searching but not finding much to understand the difference. (Or what either does)
So for these low grade systems where do you get the data or such and what math etc do design your own from? I am curious to design my own but am having trouble finding this information to do a DIY style.
@@SimpleTek I don't see it that way, i see it as a healthy criticism. You can listen or you can ignore it and wonder why you don't get the number of likes you need. It is just another way of telling you to only have that noise when between paragraphs, and transitions, etc...this way can hear only you when you talk. If you master the art of media you will get the likes. You will also make it seem that everything you say is important by silencing any noises, or at least noticeable lowering them substantially when it is time for you to talk. But yes you NEED music, but not constant, this is not a music CD. You need to appear like a pro and you will draw more and more views and likes. I know it sucks that you have to do what mainstream media already perfected, but the real masters know how to get your attention, and to even own your soul without you even realizing. But from my perspective i think you did a good job because the content is good. But since you didn't have the music too loud made it passable, allowed me to continue listening without getting irritated because i can hear and still feel like i can concentrate on you because of not too much racket in the background. Good ideal using the evacuated tubes to store heat in the ground for night. If the sun is out heating the tubes, then it is also out heating the greenhouse. So you need that heat more at nighttime in winter than any other time. And i see why you chose to use ground battery.
@@SimpleTek No, we like your video and want to hear it and understand without being distracted by strange noises in the background. Noises that we initially had no clue where they come from. From your video or local.
Thank you for providing important information. I have a question, can i add some nano fluids in this geo liquid heating and cooling system, for climate region like India, basically Chennai, which is a high humid region?
Hey I noticed you keep saying evaporated tubes, I wasn't sure what they were when you mentioned them in a reply to a comment i made in another video so i googled it and I'm pretty sure you're talking about evacuated tubes.
@@SimpleTek No. You can see pictures of evacuated tube arrays in this video. They capture solar heat. It's not evaporated, you're certainly saying it wrong.
I live on a lake in North Texas. During the winter, I can pump unlimited quantities of 60°F water from 12' deep in the lake. What is the best way to use that resource? I'm pretty sure I'll need some sort of liquid/liquid heat exchanger as I don't want to pass lake water through a radiator. It would foul and lose efficiency right away. Are there off-the-shelf systems available to do this?
there is an extremely cheap liquid to air heat exchanger you can buy for maybe $50 app almost anywhere in North America. It's called a car radiator! goto a wrecker and buy a used one! they are EXTREMELY efficient - just put a fan behind it and they throw TONS of heat - I heat my greenhouse with one from my wood boiler. and you can get that heat from your pond by just throwing a closed loop coil into the water - maybe. 300' underwater wold work - 3/4 inch tubing - that's about $100 I tubing - you get a taco pump - maybe another $100 - and connectors $20 plus a $20 fan. this will ue maybe 50 to 100 watts of electricity between both the taco pump and the fan - hope that helps - simple technology!
No if I just run black pirates above the ground that'll absorb heat from the sun and transfer it underground without spending the money I'm one of those expensive things
@@SimpleTek Cool. I'm planning on setting up a poor man's geothermal in my off grid solar powerhouse to keep the temperatures stabilized for the batteries which don't like extremes. I've got 5 acres and going to have an excavator on site for a few days, I might as well try it. My frost line is pretty deep (mountains in northern NH). is it better to coil the tubing or run it out straight, or does it matter?
@@SimpleTek th-cam.com/video/WNJnwCbnFX4/w-d-xo.html This is a lot better, I just have a feeling the microphone is on the camera. Put it closer in front of you or hook it to your shirt. You may also have an echo in the room where you are recording the video. You can also use some of the audio filters during editing to enhance the sound. Lots of success with the channel.
![[Re:all TREASURE] EP.6 in 방콕ㅣ🚩 쩡캠의 방콕 투어 빵 마이 와이 👍](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uyFw-nItA_s/mqdefault.jpg)
I love this! The simpler illustrations that are left up long enough to actually look at.
thank you
Pretty amazing how easy geotemp devices are. Standard parts! It's surprising how useful these can be despite how cheap they are.
well said
LDS Prepper here on TH-cam did this with his greenhouse having the intake and the discharge all inside the greenhouse. In the winter of Idaho he was able to keep it above freezing just running some corrugated pipe in the ground and a fan to move the air.
Dave has to geo air greenhouses. He's done amazing work!
We could use parabolic mirrors to heat our homes in winter. Especially thermal mass walls.
Have a few around the yard redirecting sunlight at the house all day.
@@BleachedWheat cool idea
Good video. Might I suggest that success in a geo air system is dependent on which thermal mass is utilized: inside the footprint of the greenhouse where it is actively managed, or outside the greenhouse where you're dealing primarily with the prevailing ground temperature. If you're just pulling from the prevailing ground temperature, you're right that it's rather low for most of the US and over the course of a winter you're likely to gradually deplete it. If you're using the ground beneath the greenhouse and can pump excess heat into it, you're no longer stuck with the prevailing ground temperature. That's why systems in Colorado tend to work well: high solar gain to "charge" the soil beneath the structure, despite ground temperatures that are normally in the 40s and 50s Fahrenheit.
well said
I have yet hear of it being done but one way to use any low grade geo system is to insulate the glazed surface of a greenhouse. Add a second layer of plastic panel or sheet six inches inside the outer and run the lower temp air sourced outside the insulated footprint through that space. If your greenhouse gets the beniffit of a ten or twenty degree F increase from raising the average ground temps within it's perimeter this will make the difference even greater across all that glazing in colder climes. By using an outer loop you could effectively cut the temp difference in half or less and the heat loss with it. It won't help the short winter days but you could almost grow tomatoes in 40 below without additional heating then.
Totally agree and ground water is easy to access and return for reheat or cool.
here - it's great for cooling but requires a heat pump for heating. other places are different.
Thank you for another wonderful video. Concise and condensed information tailored for people like me to take the leap into a purposeful and healthy at home hobby. You inspire me to do more research. You definitely have a niche in this green diy media. One idea I would extend is the geothermal air heat transfer (gaht) system in northern us latitudes uses perforated drain pipe. The ground/soil reduces humidity in the greenhouse which is important for plant health. Thanks for mentioning others in your field!
Thank you for the kind words. you're correct about the perforated pipe! there is also a heat gain with air systems via a phase change
Just for clarification. PEX may work but HDPE pipe is whats actually used for active (normal) geothermal units.
thank you for the info!
I sure like your pace of speech, clear articulation and very interesting subject. 🐸 Getting ready to convert my shed to a greenhouse… the shed butts up against a 3’ hillside. It’s on the north side… : ) thanks 🐸 … more motivated than ever…
Thank you! Good luck!
Simple. My ground temperate is a roughly 52-56f in Connecticut. I have a 4x5x13ft(about 8ft of water) garden water well and I am considering installing a 4x5x6 greenhouse on top of it. Currently the top of the well lid never freezes, so I know it can be done! Thankyou for all the ideas.
You’re very welcome
I made a simple 12 ft by 9 ft glass greenhouse (biggest I'm allowed without a building permit here in Victoria BC) with an about 2 ft high raised bed on the north side and an about 14 inch raised bed on the south side with a pathway inbetween. I have water storage directly underneath both planters with more water under the north side one than the south side one (I have videos about it). I blow air through pipes under both planters to cool the greenhouse air and warm the soil. I have minimal ventilation. The air is blown by old computer fans from an obsolete computer down into the plastic 2 inch pipes and powered by a 15 watt or 30 watt solar panel. Definitely, I wished I had wider diameter pipes or a more powerful fan. One pipe goes under the water so the air gets cooled more, usually 8 to 10 C cooler when it comes out but on a really hot day, up to 15 C cooler. The condensed water in this pipe that passes through the water storage is significant. 1ts around 4oo ml per day on the hotter days. Turns out the heat given out to the soil or water when condensation occurs is massive. The only real innovation I have is that I send the air down from the computer fans near the glass roof through "temporary plastic downspout" which is a clear plastic "tube" that they hang down to take rain off roofs in new construction while they await the real downspouts. It's clear so it doesn't stop light getting to the plants. All in all, I am really happy with it so far, and very pleased with the amount of thermal energy I trap in the soil and water to keep the greenhouse warmer at night and prevent nasty spikes of heat during the day.
That's AWESOME!!!!!!
great video, heating the ground is brilliant and yes i would insulate that specific area. THANK YOU.
Thank you
You can also cover the pit with long compost biomaterial, like woodchips n stuff. Will insulate and give heat in long run, and also can be used as growing bed.
Compost only give heat for a little over a year max though
Cooling the greenhouse is never really a problem we’re we live. We just roll up the sides and let the air blow through.
nice!
And another idea😉, perhaps previously mentioned is to run the pipe coil in the ground in the greenhouse. Warm the soil, not so much the air.
Great idea!
Glad I have a dug well next to mine, 36 ft deep and 10 ft round, Temp stays around 58 degrees year round, I have it running thru a old semi radiator. It works great for 10 months of the year but Jan and Feb have to add about 10 degrees if I want to grow luckily I don't need that much food.
That sounds awesome!!!!!
I am currently in the process of building my own greenhouse split geothermal system. I am using both methods and combining them. I will be circulating air underground around 4' deep. I will also be creating my own geothermal liquid loop that will use the same hole. I am then going to have the liquid lines run through a self made "air handler" where a radiator will then cool the geothermal air coming in from underground.
I am hand digging a 30' L x 3' W x 4' D with a pick axe and shovel. So you technically don't need an excavator! lol
Some other things I am doing differently than others is adding a "fresh air intake" into my system. So the air being recirculated from the greenhouse will get mixed with outdoor ambient air which is typically 8-10 degrees lower.
Lastly I am going to be building some "Dehumidification Chambers" or basically desiccant chambers that will pull out as much moisture as it can as the air passes by. I will have 1 chamber on the return and 1 on the supply sides of the system. Basically just going to be some cloth material socks that will hang inside of my 6" return pipe and as the air moves past them they will slowly draw additional moisture from the system.
I am in Zone 7b and have summers with 100 degree days and 100% humidity. I have to combine many methods into my greenhouse to achieve cooling effects. I also have a wind tunnel layout to my exhaust and circulating fans. I will need to balance all of these systems so that I can achieve greenhouse temperatures that do not exceed 90 degrees F.
My goal is to achieve a max of 15 degrees of cooling/heating inside my 16'x32' high tunnel greenhouse.
OMG That's AWESOME!
I think your plan has a few flaws :)
Very interesting, thank you. I was thinking about just having an air tube of a couple hundred feet, ten feet down. As simple as you can get. 6" PVC. But the water system looks to be more efficient, and very simple.
Glad it was helpful!
Very interesting idea. I planning to build small (6 m in diameter) greenhouse and use this system.
awesome
Excellent videos. thank you. I'm glad I subscribed. You mentioned aircrete is easy to make, could you please do a video on that?
I will be doing that soon!!!!!
i know a simple machin 300 $ can make good quality of aircret.
They sale it in Domegaya website, or you can built it with aquarium pump for 70 $.
Really like your videos!!
I live in zone 6, 90s in summer 20s and lower in winter. Most heating and cooling videos on TH-cam are Canadian. Would you consider doing a video based on zones and desired greenhouse temps.
For clarity on my question, if I wanted to grow greens 50-75 year round or tomatoes 70-90 year round in a zone, how would I design a system? Im not asking you to do a special video for me (as awesome as that would be) but I'm guessing there are a lot of people like me in areas that need both real heat and real cooling and don't want to rely on affordable gas or electric in the future.
Thanks in advance for considering my request.
Good ideas! Thank you, will consider!
Love your channel and the informative videos. I started experimenting with aircrete last year. I don't believe aircrete will work as insulation in earth sourced heat storage unless is dried and sealed. The aircrete I've made becomes water logged in the rain. something like an industrial pond liner or maybe a poly bag which is then put under mild vacuum would be a good idea.
odd, many people have said it's waterproof and floats... what kind of foam did you use?
@@SimpleTek I've made Portland cement/foam type. Initially when made and dried it will float in water for quite awhile but it slowly takes on water and sinks. There is another type made in factories called autoclaved aerated concrete (AAC). This type may actually be waterproof. It's a vastly different product than an at home DIY aircrete.
I really like your channel and willingness to explore many different options to solve problems. You sunk me down the rabbit hole of compost heating for The last month or so. Im even further north than you and you are one of the few who consider the northern climates in your thought process.
Check out styrocrete. The video claims that it is easier to make, better consistency, better R value, lighter etc.. I hope to be trying it out this summer.
@@SimpleTekany chance I can get you to contact me
Great, usable information
Thank
You
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Sometimes I see air circulated into a house via pipes underground. That is a big health risk because of the unavoidable mould forming in underground pipes.
better to do that for a greeenhouse than a house
From Lil Giant Ooh! I could not handle the mold-in a house OR a greenhouse.
@@henryvalero9235 then use a liquid system - no mold!
They make special cool tubes for this that are coated on the inside to keep from getting any mold growth.
Thanks for the legitimate information
Thank you for the kind words!
The air systems- the hole is surrounded with insulation and the system heats the ground all summer so in winter the insulated ground is warmer - ground battery. And in winter the greenhouse can still get 100* so the fan warms up the ground to use at night. Kind of like what you are talking about with warming up with solar collector for liquid lines.
cool
The price of a geothermal heating system in Scandinavia costs around US $ 19,000-33,000 depending on the size of the house. The geothermal heat pump lasts 14-20 years.
a low grade system for a greenhouse would be about $1000 in parts plus excavation
There exist pumps that work 30+years. The compessor sometimes break 14-20 years, costing €2500. Whole pump cost €6000. +geoCooling does not need a compressor.
At my latitude and with a well insulated concrete house, I need cooling during 1..5 days per year, I have not bothered yet to take the cooling in use, even when I already have all HW needed. -> I use our 210m deep heatwell only for house+water heating via a heat pump.
@@kimmokannala4576 umm, taco pumps are about $100 - and last many years.. I can change the pump and save thousands! lol
My drive way is heated this way in the northeast. Never have to shovel. Ever
that's awesome!
very informative. Thanks!
You're welcome! Thank you for the kind words
Great stuff
Thank you!
Thank you! Great video!!! How about in Wilton Connecticut? Seems like it would work even better than those colder climates you mentioned… we are in Grow Zone 6b
How would you modify your suggestions for Connecticut grow zone 6b?
Should work fine there as is
The audio is terrible I would love to watch the video but I find myself straining to understand what is being said thanks have a nice day
thank you for the comment
I have to agree. Love the content. Would like to be able to watch it again and again, but can't handle listening to the music and the talking at the same time. Hopeful, you dropped the music in your later videos.
you smart man ... love the info ... so good
thank you for the kind words
I've learned a lot with your videos! Thanks You sir!!
Very clear - thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Here's another idea: dig a deep hole for a 4000 gal septic tank. Place the tank and run water lines (for heat exchange) inside it, then insulate the top of the tank. Cover it with at least 4 ft of dirt. Use the water tank to collect rain water, then use it for irrigation.
why?
Thank you!
You’re very welcome!
Veryyyyyy goood explanation, informations, ... a good 10 T machine, pay 150 $ for the driver and lets go !!!
;)
fantastic video ... thanks
thank you
How do you keep the evacuated tube lines from freezing in the winter when you disconnect them so as to not put cold into your system?
As long as they are deep enough below the frost line they won’t freeze
A blower would work much better than a fan for an air system due to the higher static pressures they can achieve. This is why they use them in automotive and building HVAC systems.
Liquid circulating pumps use much less energy to move water (and heat) than a fan or blower moving air.
interesting
Thanks
Welcome
If you're heating the ground use sand or clay in your trench. Rocket mass heaters use clay to absorb and emit heat, Sand is also a great way to store thermal energy. Someone smarter then me would need to do the calculations, but I'm sure that the stored thermal energy would more then offset the cost. This would only be for heat however not for cooling.
Thank you for the insight
do you have a Heat and Material Balance calculation example for any of these ideas. Friend of mine in Canada had a heat sink swimming pool in their basement that was solar heated/cooled and it passively heated/cooled the whole 2,000 sqft house. . Plus it was a YEAR ROUND swimming pool.
OMG I love that idea!
Love your content. I am in tropical climate and need to cool my greenhouse, it’s humid, so geothermal liquid cooling! The inside gets to 34 degrees in summer, and I need it to be max 22 degrees, is that possible?
Anything is possible
@@SimpleTek What's your recommendation please? geothermal liquid cooling? My place is very humid..
@@aquagreensorganic geothermal is best for high humidity
Hi Simple Tek, Thanks again for a great video. Keep up the great work. HDH [: { ].👌
Thank you soo much for the kind words!
I was hoping for some math. The underground swimming pool I think works if it is large enough, and I like the idea of using solar collectors to heat it during the summer but the math has to work
the math would be different for every size of greenhouse and climate locations would change that too.
Question, I want a low grade geo-air system for greenhouse, in your image at 3:57 it shows the air vent coming from the outside. Why not make it grab the air from within the greenhouse and keep it closed?
You are correct, image is wrong
With this type of green house heating what are your concerns with radon in the green house? I live in North West Wyoming where radon gas is a major concern.
I can't see a liquid transfer system being an issue as it's sealed from the ground - an air transfer system might be an issue if it has moisture drain holes - but you don't live in there, your plants do - radon is bad for humans, not plants - and greenhouses often have massive air filtration in the day via vents and fans when humans are in them - unlike houses... I'm no DR - so I don't know., but I don't see it as a huge problem but that all depends on the levels on radon. I would assume levels that would start to be bad in a house would take much higher concentrations to be bad in a greenhouse - depending on setup
@@SimpleTek have you ever tested your green house for radon level? I asked the guy in Nebraska about this issue and got a none answer. I have a friend that wants to have a green house on the south side of their house and connected.
Love the video.... can u share some more information on implemented projects on geothermal cooling.... Geothermal cooling looks to be the only option (if it were available here) to economically cool greenhouses around where i live..... I live in an area with high humidity throughout the year, 4 months of near constant rain (~4500mm/year) with temperatures (~31°c) and humidity 85%+, hot summers (38°C+)....
I only know of home systems, plan to make and install one on my greenhouse soon
If there is a well available, or you can dig down to groundwater, Just use a liquid system with a copper pipe in the section under the cold water.
If I'm using liquid, how does the liquid get circulated? I can see the fan moving the air filled tubes.
simple taco pump
Oh, hi. I live in Victoria BC Canada. I got a CO2 meter to experiment with about 2 months ago. One thing I am interested in is CO2 enhancement, in my pretty well sealed greenhouse. I want it as well sealed as possible to keep in the heat, but then I need to input CO2 because nature won't do it for me. First of all, I didn't realize how high CO2 levels are in houses in Canada. So, 2 months ago my inside air was over 800 ppm when I first tested. My greenhouse is in a treed area, and the air around it was about 380 ppm around midday while in the greenhouse it was around 560 (Lots of organic matter under the soil will give me a couple of months of above normal CO2 in the greenhouse until it rots away and the plants really start growing. Anyway, plants ideal CO2 levels are 1000 to 1200 ppm ( same as a stuffy office or classroom) But human requirements for CO2 is "as low as possible, so indoors 500 or 600 would be good. Not only that, but it turns out high CO2 levels co-relate to a higher risk of spreading Covid, (They are using CO2 meters in some schools, in Canada, Germany and the USA as a proxy to measure Covid risk!). So, my thought is, why not couple house ventilation somewhat with your greenhouse heat and CO2 requirements? When I got my crawl space sealed a few months ago, I left a 4 inch pipe so I can use a fan as necessary to blow air out and into the greenhouse, I suspect the crawl space will have the highest CO2 levels in the house and blowing from there will also lose me the least heat. Maybe you could look into doing a video about coupling a house to a greenhouse and doing 2 jobs at once. Reduce the CO2 in your house, while getting air changes and helping the plants grow faster in the greenhouse.
that's awesome - worth a video in the future - thank you for the info!
Raise ducks inside the greenhouse?
@@johnwyman6126 I don't see why not, if you have the space. But bylaws here mean that I don't have enough room. One day, I read up and found that my greenhouse (10 sq meters) when full of green stuff growing on a sunny day, used almost the same amount of CO2 as 1 person exhaled. So, absolutely, you could have a maybe 2 inch or 3 inch pipe going from your crawl space to the greenhouse and it would help your plants big time when you blow your house air to the plants. (And it helps you too because you can replace some of your stale carbonated house air with freshly oxygenated greenhouse air.)
Hi Simple Tek, Let me ask if I don't have lots of land but if I can have a septic tank concrete or fiberglass min. 6 ft down from top of tank and I fill it with hoses in loops the cover it with soil at some everything inside the tank is going to be at the same temp. This way I can have enough liquid to run the radiator all day and not worry of running out. What do you think? I appreciate your help. Thanks 👍
It works in theory but the amount of thermal mass is limited unless you have a 30,000 gallon septic tank. Most residential tanks are 1000-2000 gallons, so not really big enough
Thanks for your reply. 👍
@@johnlittle1939 I hope it helped and I didn’t disappoint too much
i dont think the ground will hold the heat from summer all the way to winter, it probably dissipates in a week or even a couple days. even without extracting heat i think it will only stay at the the temp that the collectors can collect, ie how much sun in the last day or two. maybe insulating the ground is needed as well idk. and for heating with a thermal battery you would want a cylinder or cube since there is less surface area the colder ground beside it can sap heat from it.
depending on the ground material where you've, it can and has been done many times in many places
Are there any examples of someone using an insulated liquid thermal battery in the ground? I can't find any.
Most use air but liquid is way more efficient
Any books on how to do this on a small scale with out using hydroelectric power or Fossil fuels on things like a fans or pumps
there must somewhere...
We need to cool down our greenhouses as much as possible here in the tropics. Average of 30-50 deg C all year round. Would liquid or air cooling work best or?
how is ground temperature and material 4,5, 6 and 8 feet down?
Ground temperature starting around 6 feet deep is equal to annual average air temperature (day and night and all seasons). For example we live near Puerto Vallarta and the average annual air temperature is 23.5 C so the ground temperature would be the same. Some say you need to go 30 feet to get consistent temperature but the difference in temperature between 6 feet and 30 feet isn’t significant but the effort to dig is much greater. The most efficient heat exchanger fluid is water. If you have a well, using well water through the radiator/fan is efficient. However, you need a dump for the well water. Perhaps a second injection well located far enough from the extraction well would work.
With homes there is the option to have a vertical liquid geothermal system. Could this work with a greenhouse? I understand that it would be more expensive. I just want to know if it is feasable.
Absolutely
Just watched the section of the video about injecting heat into the ground during the summer to use in the winter and am wondering if it’s possible to work that in reverse? I live in TX so need more cooking for a greenhouse than heat. Is it possible to inject cold into the ground the same way you would heat?
What do you mean by insulating the bottom of the green house? Putting a layer on top of the pipes? So the heat stays below the insulation and does not escape inside the green house?
No. Insulation, plastic, sand, pipes, concrete blocks. In that order, heat will radiate up
@@SimpleTek I understand your comment. Has there been discussion about not worrying about the immediate soil needing to heat up? Say 2 feet of top soild. A layer of 4" insulation (like a cooler lid) then sand or gravel and pipes. Two layers of pipes. The top layer will fluctuate moderately but the climate battery "could hold more thermo mass? If it had a lid?
@@riversedgegoatdairy297 interesting
@@SimpleTek I am planning on building a straw bale wallipini version at our farm this spring. Finally)! Arthur Ontario. My biggest stress point is drainage. I will need to build a long trench from the proposed area to a lower spot. Such that it will not flood the air exchange tubes. The back wall will be made out of straw bales and double stud wall 2x4's and likely sheet steel maybe cob on the inside? Not sure how deep I will dig down. Since the deeper our passive solare green house the longer my drainage trench will need to be.... Thanks again for the videos and tips/dialogue. Very encouraging!
whats best for a 2000 square foot greenhouse?
soo many factors to consider
I think you meant evacuated tubes instead of evaporated tubes.
you're correct. I made this late and my brain was foggy. Sorry
How do you heat a house in the winter with 8deg C ground temp and no heat pump?
EXCELLENT COMMENT! I'm about to post a video that explains exactly how to do that (it's for a greenhouse but it will work for a house too) - sorry I've been sick and slow on recent videos - maybe a day or two and I'll get it up
I'm late to the party... forgive my ignorance. Can you please link me a video to show how a liquid vs air system(s) work? I'm searching but not finding much to understand the difference. (Or what either does)
check the Archives of Simple Tek here on TH-cam!
So for these low grade systems where do you get the data or such and what math etc do design your own from? I am curious to design my own but am having trouble finding this information to do a DIY style.
There’s a few things to consider before starting
Will this work in North Carolina?
Possible
Background music purpose is to fill the silence, not to cover the talk or annoy the listener.
aren't we grumpy today
@@SimpleTek I don't see it that way, i see it as a healthy criticism. You can listen or you can ignore it and wonder why you don't get the number of likes you need.
It is just another way of telling you to only have that noise when between paragraphs, and transitions, etc...this way can hear only you when you talk. If you master the art of media you will get the likes. You will also make it seem that everything you say is important by silencing any noises, or at least noticeable lowering them substantially when it is time for you to talk. But yes you NEED music, but not constant, this is not a music CD. You need to appear like a pro and you will draw more and more views and likes. I know it sucks that you have to do what mainstream media already perfected, but the real masters know how to get your attention, and to even own your soul without you even realizing.
But from my perspective i think you did a good job because the content is good. But since you didn't have the music too loud made it passable, allowed me to continue listening without getting irritated because i can hear and still feel like i can concentrate on you because of not too much racket in the background.
Good ideal using the evacuated tubes to store heat in the ground for night. If the sun is out heating the tubes, then it is also out heating the greenhouse. So you need that heat more at nighttime in winter than any other time. And i see why you chose to use ground battery.
@@SimpleTek No, we like your video and want to hear it and understand without being distracted by strange noises in the background. Noises that we initially had no clue where they come from. From your video or local.
Thank you for providing important information. I have a question, can i add some nano fluids in this geo liquid heating and cooling system, for climate region like India, basically Chennai, which is a high humid region?
Yes you can!
Hey I noticed you keep saying evaporated tubes, I wasn't sure what they were when you mentioned them in a reply to a comment i made in another video so i googled it and I'm pretty sure you're talking about evacuated tubes.
you can see pictures of evaporated tube arrays in this video. they capture solar heat.
@@SimpleTek No. You can see pictures of evacuated tube arrays in this video. They capture solar heat.
It's not evaporated, you're certainly saying it wrong.
@@trent5098 omg I think I'm the victim of autocorrect. I didn't look close enough. Thank you for pointing that out!
@@SimpleTek autocorrect changed your video as well? Wow, that’s one hell of an autocorrect lmao.
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET oh crap - that was me making it at 3 am..... lol
Would low grade liquid work for concrete driveway heating for snow melt?
maybe? I like it..... I hate shovelling snow
I live on a lake in North Texas. During the winter, I can pump unlimited quantities of 60°F water from 12' deep in the lake. What is the best way to use that resource? I'm pretty sure I'll need some sort of liquid/liquid heat exchanger as I don't want to pass lake water through a radiator. It would foul and lose efficiency right away. Are there off-the-shelf systems available to do this?
there is an extremely cheap liquid to air heat exchanger you can buy for maybe $50 app almost anywhere in North America. It's called a car radiator! goto a wrecker and buy a used one! they are EXTREMELY efficient - just put a fan behind it and they throw TONS of heat - I heat my greenhouse with one from my wood boiler. and you can get that heat from your pond by just throwing a closed loop coil into the water - maybe. 300' underwater wold work - 3/4 inch tubing - that's about $100 I tubing - you get a taco pump - maybe another $100 - and connectors $20 plus a $20 fan. this will ue maybe 50 to 100 watts of electricity between both the taco pump and the fan - hope that helps - simple technology!
Was the liquid variant ever really tested in real life...?
Lol
@@SimpleTek ? thats not an answer...? you said youll test it, did you already please?
@@romannavratilid the majority of geothermal heating/cooling used today is liquid based
@@SimpleTek really ...? Oh i didnt know that... all the videos on youtube i ever saw about this talked only about the air variant.
@@romannavratilid when you speak about geo thermal for homes, 98% is liquid systems
Volume is low.
thank you - fixing in future
No if I just run black pirates above the ground that'll absorb heat from the sun and transfer it underground without spending the money I'm one of those expensive things
interesting idea
American map using Celsius????????
the WORLD uses Celsius
Ask the weatherman
Good topic, Please get a "less low grade" microphone [;oP
bought a blue yeti - waiting for a cable from amazon to hook it up. thanks for the comment!
Thermal Store
;)
Have you actually done this yourself?
Yes
@@SimpleTek Cool. I'm planning on setting up a poor man's geothermal in my off grid solar powerhouse to keep the temperatures stabilized for the batteries which don't like extremes. I've got 5 acres and going to have an excavator on site for a few days, I might as well try it. My frost line is pretty deep (mountains in northern NH). is it better to coil the tubing or run it out straight, or does it matter?
@@NeverTakeNoShortcuts I’d say coil it!
Hello neighbour!
Oakpoint, Manitoba here. where you at?
@@SimpleTek the great city you spoke of. I've driven through oakpoint loads up hwy 6. Nice video, subbed!
@@jamess1787 That's awesome! Stop in some time and say Hi, I own Oakpoint RV Resort
@@SimpleTek you got it!!!!!
Bro, you lucky I have full on EQ in Windows so I can adjust your garbage mic background hum..how you not fix that before publishing?
I’m learning… I think I have it fixed In the latest videos
@@SimpleTek keep up the good work!
@@The_Endo thank you
Appreciate the knowledge, lose the music, degrades the content in my opinion.
Thank you, I agree going forward
Holy shit , give a schematic PLEASE????
Would you like the keys to my car too?
Has this dude ever been in a greenhouse? I see no evidence. Slammed a Redbull, read some blogs and forum posts, and said let’s do this shit.
I hope that made you feel better.
Stupidest comment anywhere today
@ 1:20 not really !! only videos that their own "fact" checkers like !!
Low grade !
;)
Please next time buy a decent microphone. Your voice is to low. Also hardly anderstand you.
please check my latest video and let me know what you think about the audio. I'm trying hard to improve it - bought a blue yeti mic
@@SimpleTek th-cam.com/video/WNJnwCbnFX4/w-d-xo.html
This is a lot better, I just have a feeling the microphone is on the camera. Put it closer in front of you or hook it to your shirt. You may also have an echo in the room where you are recording the video. You can also use some of the audio filters during editing to enhance the sound. Lots of success with the channel.
if you're talking about America we do not Celsius,
Only educated Americans do…
🤣
;)
Bad system.
yes environmentally friendly heat and no or min electric cost is terrible if you work in the coal or gas industry
Get out your face of the video
it's called "TH-cam" not "Get outa the way fatso I wanna see the pictures"
That is how you grow your 20 dollar tomato.
ummm, this is cheaper than a gas furnace
4:19 in can’t deal with the ridiculous music in the background.
cause life without music is sooo much better.......
Use the SAME PIPES!!
ok
I like you and your efficient-reliable and sensible ideas..keep up informing us please..
Thank you!