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This is something DPs need to be careful with. You can throw away a lot of camera performance trying to chase dynamic range allocation, when it would be better to sgoot native and change the exposure in post.
The pocket cameras are always recording at 400iso or 3200. Traditionally changing your iso would actually change the voltage sent to your sensor, increasing or decreasing its sensitivity to light. This would also effect how much noise was being created and how much dynamic range the sensor was capturing. This is why the "pros" say to always shoot native otherwise you throw information away.
On red and blackmagic you are recording at one set iso (or one of two set ISOs when you have a dual gain camera) and when you change your iso all youre doing is changing where middle gray falls on your set exposure. you dont actually gain more information in your highlights or shadows.
Yes I also wondered about this. When shooting RAW on the blackmagic, the iso is fixed during shooting and adjusted in post. In that case, the iso is just for reference during shooting.
I don’t know that I agree totally with this risk (although I get what you’re saying) as long as you’re familiar with the specific camera you’re using.
I’ve used this technique on a lot of different cameras - including RED and blackmagic, as well as Panasonic, Fuji and Sony. And highlights regularly clip faster at lower ISO’s and roll off smoother at higher ISO’s; Assuming you’re exposing the shot well.
The opposite end of that is tricker because it’s more about adding light. Which can be harder and more time consuming than taking it away with ND; but it’s pretty easy to see that lower ISOs will produce a cleaner image in lower light than higher ISO’s, assuming you’re able to expose correctly with external lighting.
Of course if you have something like the A7S3/FX3 sensor with its wildly clean higher ISO, that changes the way you can approach things, but even that is somewhat of a software magic trick mixed with noise reduction and sharpening that Sony isn’t openly sharing. Ha.
Exactly. The logic is valid for any formats besides raw. In raw, it does not make a difference.
Another banger. I’ve been trying to explain this technique to people for years now, and I’m constantly surprised how many people I’ve worked with have basically no understanding of it. I’ve even been met with resistance on occasion. I will now share your video with anyone I’m bringing this up with.
Great video! Just wanted to add that native ISO means 0 gain to the sensor, it's when the camera applies 0 gain i.e 0 extra voltage to the sensor to brighten up the image. That's why cinema camera use gain (db) and not ISO as ISO isn't really a thing in digital cameras, it's just the number you use to punch into a lightmeter to expose for middle grey. Digital cameras work on voltage so native ISO means 0 gain i.e no extra voltage applied to the sensor to brighten the image while film uses ISO/ASA as a standardized sensitivity measurement. When you apply more voltage to the sensor you get a noisier image as the only thing that can actually change what amount of light your sensor gets is shutter angle, aperture and ofc light it self. If you crank up the ISO passed native you apply more voltage and the image gets nosier because that's like turning up the volume on a mic that's set too low, you will just hear more noise as the signal was captured too low to begin with. So if you can't get the right exposure using your cameras native ISO you need to add light as ISO or gain cannot expose an image, it can only brighten what you have already captured which will reveal noise. What he's saying here is true, higher ISO's (which is really higher gain) means you have pushed the noise floor higher so you get more latitude in the highlights and less in the shadows, this ofc also means much noisier shadows as again, you've gone passed native and applied much more gain the sensor. Same thing is true below native (if your camera can go below native) you get more latitude in the shadows but much less latitude in your highlights meaning you will clip them much faster. Native does not mean perfect exposure or perfect balance, it means 0db of gain and nothing else, perfect exposure or balance can be found using higher or lower ISO's than native like is shown in the video. This is also why your native ISO change between picture profiles, different profiles needs different ISO numbers to expose for middle grey using a lightmeter BUT they are still always at 0db of gain no matter if your native ISO is 100 in a standard picture profile and 800 in LOG.
Amazing information 👏🏼
thank you so much, You helped me get more clarity
Amazing explanation! Thank you.
You made it make sooo much sense
Thank you so much
Love your stuff man! Keep it coming.
Appreciate it!
Good video! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for sharing the wonderful information on this ,and giving an in depth explanation - I’ve now subscribed☀️⛩😎🎥🏯🎬
Welcome aboard!
Great video however in my opinion, you should base your exposure on the key and keep everything within a 5-stop range, both over and under. This means that if you want to see detail in the shadows, you should either bounce some light overhead or use top lighting to bring up the shadows to fit within the dynamic range of your camera. Cinematographers like Roger Deakins and others often prefer to shoot at the native ISO of the camera.
Good stuff man
👌🏼👌🏼
I thought i new alot about Native ISO but its's detailed application is what has blown me off...Awesome and very informative.
I thought I knew how to spell the word “knew”.
I was right all along.
I'll stick to native ISOs when filming v-log. Gets me the cleanest image and best color accuracy.
I shoot on a Canon R5c which has 2 Base ISO settings in Clog 2 or Clog 3 (800 iso and 3200 iso). Because I have full control over lighting in the shooting scenario I’m in most often, I set my base ISO to 3200 and film at 800 ISO. My shadows are MUCH cleaner and I don’t blow out my highlights because I can control the lighting in studio. However, if I was shooting outside in midday sun, that’s not the approach I’d take. It all depends on your shooting scenario.
Makes a lot of sense. I’ve been thinking of doing the same for corporate interview work (indoors). Would save me doing noise reduction in post.
What is the music video at around 1 minute? Looks great!
I use negative gain levels on my fx6.. -3 gain always give me the cleanest footage with most highlight n shadow details… and crazy as it sounds… I don’t expose to the right… don’t need to blow my footage out to get great log footage and I like the little grain it gives bringing it up just a tad in post.. but that’s just me
The hard part with lowering ISO to clean up shadows is that you artificially lose brightness, and if you've exhausted your light control and are as bright as you can go (this often happens at weddings when I have to place my 60x lights farther away than I'd like for safety reasons or the venue is weirdly shaped), you then underexpose, and the colors look terrible. People say "just switch to a Rec.709 profile" but that only clips the shadows, and you lose even more color capability - but it's "hidden" in the camera's processing because log footage is "messier" with underexposure, and a Rec.709 profile automatically adds color and contrast.
Lowering iso does not mean “underexposing”, you should still expose properly and control the light with another tools (light fixtures, iris or may be even shutter angle in some cases)
so this rule applies only if you can control all the light sources. otherwise use the iso the usual way
Can you give link to the music video that you filmed through out this video? Or better yet give the title. YT is blocking any comment with any links recently
The actual "secret" to "cinematic" exposure is making use of a light meter, understanding that exposure metering with the incidence dome is in three dimensions where as ALL exposure tools on a camera are two dimensional "spot" metering systems. With a meter I can expose quicker, its helped me understand ratios and how they can be manipulated. It's also the only true way to do a prelight, the only true way to test and profile light sources, the agnostic approach to camera profiling, the quickest way to find middle grey at an angle, to also know what stop you need to be at to force something to be middle grey and the only way to ever shoot on film. Lighting by "monitor" is guess work but cameras today are so good you'll be fine but if you really want to master light use a tool that's only function is the measuring of light...
Off the bat thank you for the relevant and thorough videos. Second, what slider and crane are you using (looks nothing like the mediocre stuff most are selling) ?
Keep up the good work.
/Per (Denmark)
They are by a company called ProRes. And it's there Tango slider. They are a smaller and less known company but there products are excellent 👌🏼
@@OBP_ Appreciated. Thx.
@@OBP_ Do you mean ProAm ? (ProRes I know well but not for cranes etc.)
Thanks for the info man! this is great help! But I wish you could've elaborated a bit further on shooting in bright situations like outdoors. I get that we need to use filters but at what ISO should we be shooting? if not lowering. Where should we have it, at native 400? And also what happens if you shoot at lower ISO outdoors? Thanks!
Each camera has a set amount of stops for its dynamic range. Usually around 11-13. When you shoot at “native” ISO’s, it’s basically splitting that dynamic range down the middle and giving you close to an even amount of information/stops in the shadows and highlights.
When you raise your ISO (to a certain extent) the camera is allowing for more of its dynamic range to live in the highlights - which is what you want in a bright setting like outdoors where any shadow dynamic range is sort of wasted because there aren’t really any shadows to capture and it can really smooth out the highlight roll off to have more of the dynamic range in the highlights.
The same thing applies with lowering the ISO but in the opposite direction. Lowering the ISO allocates more of the cameras dynamic range in the shadows, which makes more sense if you’re shooting in a darker setting because there’s more information to gather in the shadows and there are less highlights to waste the cameras overall dynamic range on.
If you’re shooting something with a good amount of highlights AND shadows, like an interview, it makes sense to use the native because it splits the dynamic range of the camera evenly.
The reason he’s talking about using ND’s is to bring the overall exposure down because when you shoot at higher ISO’s in brighter settings, it increases your overall exposure by a lot, but you can bring it back down with an ND without effecting how the cameras is using its dynamic range.
I hope that’s helpful!
@@TheJ_G so you are saying use 640 inside with lights and 4000 outside with the Lumix S5iiX as those are teh Native ISOs in that camera. Since 4000 outside will blow everything out, use strong NDs?
@@ThatGuyOverThereWeirdIt does vary slightly from camera to camera, but yes, that’s what I’m suggesting. Dual native ISO’s can sometimes introduce their own factors, too. But generally speaking, native ISO’s spilt the dynamic range evenly. And splitting your dynamic range evenly isn’t always the best idea if you have more highlights than shadows or vice versa. So I would do some of your own tests to confirm as I haven’t used the S5ii.
It can be tough to quantify as companies don’t always post their dynamic range results with each ISO (blackmagic used to be really good about posting them) But something you can try is, watch the highlights in the sky when switching back and forth between lower ISOs and higher ISOs. There’s a good chance they’re blowing out a lot quicker at lower ISO’s, and have a smoother roll off in higher ISOs when you’ve corrected the exposure with ND.
Same with lower light scenarios, switch back and forth between a lower and higher ISO. You might have to increase your lighting to adjust for proper exposure, but you likely get cleaner images/shadows with the lower ISO over the higher ISO’s.
An important element is that you have to get good exposure. So if it’s too bright at higher ISO’s you bring the exposure down without effecting the settings of the camera by using an ND filter, if it’s too dark at lower ISO’s you’ll have to increase your lighting output to get a good exposure on the shot.
Obviously if you’re unable to use lighting, it can be difficult to shoot at lower ISO’s in lower light so you might have to rely on higher ISO’s, but also its much easier to shoot higher ISO’s in bright scenarios because you just need to adjust your ND.
It’s all a give a take and can hinge on a subtle differences, but this technique is a really powerful one that can really elevate your image quality.
But with VNDs i would prefer shooting with the lower iso out of the dual native iso in bright light. Most VNDs provide best image quality at lower stops.
You’re essentially tricking yourself to think your image is under or over exposed and adding or taking away light to compensate. You get cleaner shadows when you lower your iso because your tricking yourself that the image is too dark so you add more light, more light on the sensor is going to produce cleaner shadows
This is what people don’t understand about ISO and how it is different to shutter speed and aperture. It is not physically changing the amount of light hitting the sensor but rather boosting it. So by lowering the ISO 1 stop you essentially have moved middle grey down one stop and therefore to compensate you open up the aperture or increase the amount of light on the set. Basically meaning you’ve made everything brighter which will always equal less noise
Because people believe the iso is an exposure tool. It’s not. T-stop,light output,shutter angle, ND are really the only factors for exposure (cleanly) that’s why cine EI stays at one iso in the backend and only adjusts the monitor exposure brightness. Only time iso can be used for exposure would be with cameras with a dual native iso but then still only stuck between those two natives and I find one is normally still a little better than the other even though they claim “Native”
@@soundbreaker2485 Saying ISO isn't an exposure tool is only correct when talking about raw. Shooting any compressed codec, it is usually valuable to increase iso as long as you've already done everything in your power to get more light to the camera. Take filming stars with my S1H as an example. Shooting ISO 20k is going to leave me with more shadow information than shooting at ISO 4000 and raising the image in post. In many cameras that shoot compressed codecs, the dynamic range does not shift depending on the ISO either (assuming we're staying in the same ISO gain stage).
@@MarkusFinholt not really even with compressed formats iso isn’t a real exposure tool. If you shoot at iso 800 or iso 3200 on a camera where 800 is the native iso and it’s shooting a compressed codec if you shoot at 3200 or 800 if you raise the exposure in post from 800 to match the 3200 exposure the noise will be the same.
@soundbreaker2485 not quite true, not for clog3 atleast - which loves being over exposed and can handle many different iso levels very well. 3200 brought down looks cleaner sometimes than 800 lit with hotter lights. It's crazy!
Your skin is quite pink. Can I ask how you do your white balance?
All you say makes sense and it's something any decent professional should know. But, taking the BMCC 6K as an example, this logic doesn't really apply to the letter, because, as the camera only shoots braw, and, as in raw ISO is metadata, with this specific camera, it all boils down to which ISO bank to use. The grain, albeit more os less visible, will be the same within each ISO bank, and the result changing the ISO in Resolve should be the same.
iso... when talking about digital cinema kameras it is EI not iso and people just don't get this: check the EI chart of bm kameras and you'll find out that middle gray stays in one same spot no matter whats the ISO value is.. everything juss depends how much flexibility you want to put whites or blacks.
So that native iso talk is pure bulls##t