Maybe I'm NOT Body Positive...We need to chat (AGAIN)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Hi everyone, I’m Abbey Sharp and welcome to Abbey’s Kitchen! I need to get something off my chest about BOPO movement...
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The Unbearable Whiteness and Fatphobia of "Anti-Diet" Dietitians / the-unbearable-whitene...
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A content creator taking responsibility and not crying on camera??? is this the twilight zone? jokes aside I'm happy you've made this vid
😂❤️
Thank GOODNESS
I highly recommend blogilates’s video called The Complicated World of Body Positivity. She was also criticized for not being body positive in the correct way, and the video pokes some holes in how the movement is now being used differently than its founders intended.
Yah she's awesome
So refreshing!!!
I am a "conventionally attractive" body type medium skin toned black woman. I have always felt like my struggles with body dismorphia and disordered eating habits have been invalidated and kind of ignored because i'm viewed as "conventionally attractive." It's hard to heal when everyone's telling you (including yourself sometimes) that there's nothing to heal from. Something I am learning is that many things can be true at once; rarely are these things mutually exclusive. I know that people who are larger, darker, less "conventionally attractive" than me have it worse and at the same time I don't think it's a problem to acknowledge your own struggles. Your struggle is your struggle and just because there are people that could have it worse, doesn't mean yours isn't allowed to hurt and is unworthy of healing from. I know that this may be a privileged thing to say and I also know that someone else may need to hear it.
I understand, thank you for sharing your experience
That is a great point. I also have had body dysmorphia issues as well as binge eating habits. I have had to adjust my diet for reasons other than weight loss (immune disorders) and people's first reaction is usually "Why are you doing that diet? You look great?" I understand they are trying to be positive, but I never said I was dieting because of how I looked. Health and body image are too interconnected and sometimes our affirmation is unintentionally dismissive.
Yes, definitely. Why do people working toward the same general goal have to try to silence one-another? It's absurd to me.
It's not always about how you see yourself, but how you're treated in society based on how you look. Feeling fat or unattractive is of course a problem for you and I don't want to deny your pain. But there is definitely a difference between 'being' and 'feeling'. I'm a fat woman and for years you and I may have felt the same and the way we view ourselves as unworthy may have been painful for the both of us. But on top of how I personally fee, I also have been mistreated by people based on my weight. Some doctors haven't given me proper medical care for instance, because "just lose weight and your problem will go away" (it didn't). Also, because of my size, I have a hard time finding nice clothes that fit and sometimes I wonder if I fit in certain chairs etc. Those are extra problems that are very real for people who are actually fat. I can think I'm fabulous and beautiful and worthy, but I'm still being bullied or discriminated against by society. And that's the main difference between someone who is conventionally attractive, but has body dismorphia, and someone who is actually fat. Your pain is real and valid, but it's not the same as mine.
@@winterprei5979 Yes, that was what I was trying to get at. Although I have been made fun of for being the biggest one in my family I do not routinely get bullied for my size as you articulated. Acknowledging that that is a painful reality for many people that I would not know the full extent of without diminishing my own struggle was what I was trying to say.
I don’t think you’re a “body positive dietician” I think you’re a “life is too short not to ever eat the cookie” dietician lol
😂❤️
very funny and accurate!
Yes !
My kind of dietician!
This!!
This video and your earlier conversation with John showed me a side of you that I can fully respect. Good for you for being vulnerable, trying to listen to people's feedback and think further about these subjects.
Thank you ❤️
One of my friends struggled with anorexia so badly that she almost died multiple times. When she was recovering, it looked like she had a thin, conventional body, but I know her embracing body positivity was a HUGE step for her. I totally get marginalized people not wanting to be pushed away and I agree, but the idea of this girl being criticized for embracing body positivity, and having it taken away for her I think is really dangerous.
I understand, thank you for sharing your perspective
wow this is so true
I think, and I hope, the point is that body positivity should be for everyone--not just white, thin, cis-het, women. Including them, certainly!! But I agree that body positivity should explicitly send the message that this isn't the only kind of body you can be "positive" about.
Its true, it should definitely have more nuances but it’ll always be an issue ithink body positivity right now is as good as it’ll get tbh
some wounds are not visible, and anorexia is sooo dangerous and can kill sooo quickly that it baffles me how people with that disorder are abused even more because they are thin. They are still ill and need help.
I also think it’s worth noting that it’s great that we’re talking about body neutrality. It doesn’t matter if our bodies are beautiful like a lot of positivity posts point out. The point is that they are OUR bodies.
For sure!
I used to be obese. Now I’m underweight. You never know where someone is at in their story or progress; the only thing we absolutely can do is Be Kind to One Another. #AbolishGatekeeping
I feel like it needs to be “body respecting.”
Good point!
Yes!!
I love that
Yes 🙌
I heard “body-neutral” in the video and I really liked that. Don’t shame or moralize yourself based on your body, but don’t be afraid of changing it if changing it would be best! Physical health is not better or worse than mental health, and you should strive for the best of both!
Respect for trying to work through this, especially bringing discussion/thought so publicly
Thank you ❤️
I agree. Thanks for the video. :)
Body neutrality has really helped me deal with my disabilities-my body fails me often but I don’t have to love it every day, I just have to survive.
The whole body positivity movement seems a little messy, I think I'll just stick to old fashioned self love/self respect instead. (No offense to anyone who chooses differently).
yea i feel like the “movement” is hard b/c it’s so vague and people are different in personality and body, but i think some good self respect and respecting other people covers it all
it's become so capitalised, it sounds more like a bussiness model than a feeling
same thing.
I like body neutrality. I recently learned about that.
I’m an eating disorder therapist, and body positivity is so out of reach for many deep in the struggle. Body neutrality is the best they hope to achieve and when one talks about body positivity my clients feel so left out and invalidated. They are so filled with guilt, shame, and fear with every since bite they take that the idea of traveling between hatred to positivity feels completely insurmountable and like to high of a mountain to climb.
Thank you for sharing your experience
LOVE SEEING THIS! I couldn’t agree more, the expectation of being able to reach a positive place with ones body is a big ask. Thank you for your input and for doing the job you do! Xx
I’m also a therapist (I work mostly with teens and people with BPD) and it reminds me of the black and white thinking talked about so much in DBT. We try to combat negative thoughts with “positive thinking” and it almost never works. If instead you can accept and approach it with compassion and coping skills, it seems to go so much better.
I absolutely love and respect the fact that you owned up to your mistakes and directly apologized to not only your audience, but to John himself. It really shows maturity and a willingness to learn.
Thank you ❤️
Exactly 💙
I saw his video and he was a little bit salty when you weren't trying to judge him.
@@blankonga I think it was his initial gut reaction. He later said that he didn’t think she was trying to insult him and didn’t hold it against her.
You know I stuck around because I've watched you grow. There have been several times that I wanted to check out because I thought "she's just not getting it she's not listening to people" only for you to prove me wrong. I'm always impressed by your ability to take and critique and grow from it that's a hard thing to do privately and it's immensely harder to do publicly. Keep it up you're doing a fantastic job
Thank you ❤️
Body positivity shouldn’t be limited EVER. I’ve struggled with suicidal tendencies due to thinking I’m fat, bodydysymorhipa, anorexia. bulimia, anything you can possibly imagine. I’m now 27 and still can’t eat normally but every day I try to accept my body regardless of how difficult it is. Sometimes you feel you don’t belong in your body. I’m considered “underweight” for my height. That doesn’t make me feel any better about myself. It makes you want to escape yourself or your body. Be patient with anyone struggling with their body whether they’re overweight, healthy, overweight, or underweight . Most people aren’t happy or content and are confused with their body. Don’t seclude people to the point where they’re even more insecure
I completely agree! Why is it ok to 'thin' shame but not to 'fat' shame? It's the same. If you claim to be an inclusive group that celebrates all bodies then do as you claim and celebrate all bodies!
Thank you for sharing your experience
@@AbbeysKitchen thank you for sharing these topics (:
@@innessakole It's of course not okay or helpful to do either, but I acknowledge that there IS a difference. Thinness, even being underweight, is largely encouraged and praised in society, whereas being fat isn't.
"body positivity implies you're constantly positive about your body, which just isn't realistic" that is so true. Body neutral is so smart, damn. We try not to associate emotions with foods, so why associate emotions with our body and literally judging it day by day...
Exactly!
As a thin white woman who had an eating disorder for 4 years, I don’t know how to take this. Am I not allowed in the body positive movement because I have a “thin” body no matter where I’ve come from (much like Abbey, I am only asking to find my place amongst this discussion, not to argue my privilege)? Anyone else caught in a similar boat?
the movement seems hypocritical... inclusive but exclusive, positive by tearing others down, making new body stadards... they're becoming what they claim to hate...
I’m 8 years into recovery and found out early on that I get backlash for being body positive while thin. My understanding is people in larger bodies often feel like people in smaller bodies are drowning out their voices as they often get more attention. I can understand that, but am still confused on how that translates to shutting down people like us. I don’t use the hashtag anymore because I don’t want to drown them out but the way I was treated at such a venerable time wasn’t okay.
I'm confused too. I didn't know the historic origins of the movement so I respect that. But I have always had body image issues especially since being diagnosed with a thyroid issue and then having my daughter. I went from being a size 10/12 to a 14/16 and that really messed with my mental state, but I feel like with this logic I'm still too privileged to be "body positive"? Maybe I'm just ignorant because I didn't even know there were other connotations with body positive. I always interpreted it as loving Nd accepting your body and being healthy
make your own space stop forcing your way where you don't belong
I also had an eating disorder but have found good supportive spaces in edrecovery movements. This doesn't mean we thin bodies aren't allowed to struggle and have insecurities. But we just haven't gone through the same discrimination that larger bodies go through on a daily basis and we have to be mindful about saturating the bopo movement when it was specifically made for larger bodies. Like Abbey said she doesn't want to 'all lives matter' the body positivity movement. I also disagree with the above comments saying that it's inclusive by being exclusive. Every single movement or community is going to have a certain people it caters to. That's like saying doctors aren't inclusive because they only treat the sick and not the healthy. It doesn't make sense.
IMO, body positivity should be a concept open to everyone, not an exclusive movement. I'm a "Straight size" person that is often described as thin, but my weight has fluctuated over the years and I'm heavier than I want to be. I struggle a lot with water retention and I have a high body fat percentage with lots of cellulite and stretch marks. I can't talk about my insecurities with anyone though because I'm always treated like my concerns are invalid. Body positivity posts have helped me when my negative self talk was absolutely brutal and I couldn't stand for people to look at me.
I totally see where you're coming from because I've been there too. However, I think it would be disrespectful to ignore the history and modern reality of weight stigma against more marginalized bodies. Honestly I think all we need to do is rebrand the content that helps us. Don't monetize body positivity or appropriate it by just using different terminology. I don't think it would have made a difference when I was struggling with food/exercise obsession if a video I watched was labelled "body positive" or "body neutrality" or "body love", it would have been helpful nonetheless but flooding the searches for a movement created for marginalized bodies with images of people who are not marginalized could be harmful to those seeking comfort in bodies significantly more ridiculed(ridiculed in ways that affect their health on a broader scale). I think you have to weigh what's at stake if we share our experiences with another title or if we don't; if we do, we'll face having to find another space and in the meantime feeling a little lost, but what's at stake if we don't is moving fat people/marginalized people towards a less healthy life, both physically and emotionally(I have a research doc if you want the sources for my second claim, or you can see some of the links Abbey uses)
Thank you for sharing your perspective. So glad that's been helpful for you
@@livgertz205 I agree with you. However, I had a negative experience with the body positive community shaming me despite me not using their community. I had an anorexia recovery Instagram, clearly marketed for those in recovery and at no point suggesting my story was for everyone or would help everyone, and I made it a point to not use body positivity and explained to my followers why. I was an ally, but not a part of their community because I am thin and white and able-bodied, regardless of my struggles. I actually didn't use any body hashtags at all. I only used #selflove #edrecovery #anorexiarecovery and #mentalhealthawareness. I wanted the focus to be on mental recovery and finding joy in life again and not bodies. Still, I received DMs from BoPo activists telling me I shouldn't share my story because my anorexia story didn't compare to their struggles and there are ”enough white anorexics” on the platform. I was told that if I wanted to talk about EDs, I wasn't ”allowed” to post any pictures of myself, even just pictures of me with my family at Disney, because I would be rubbing my thin body in everyone’s face. I was also told that my recovery wasn't legitimate because I recovered in a small body. I ended up completely deleting my social media because I was so overwhelmed and felt guilty for ever thinking my story was worth sharing. I actually came to believe that my anorexia wasn't a big deal and doesn't deserve to be talked about. There are people within the community who tear down anyone with a different story than them even when they're not trying to invade their space.
@@xosecox12 i’m so sorry you had to deal with this. you’re totally valid and so is your recovery. i hope you’re able to heal and share your story at a later date.
@@xosecox12 Thank you for sharing that. What a horrid way to treat someone recovered/recovering from a disorder, I'm so sorry you had that experience and hoping you're doing better now. Reading that made me so mad. Also the resentment alone in some of those comments you got, that's hardly positive is it. I thought the focus was or at least should be on being happy in your own skin. Why are there always some just nasty people in any space? becauseappreciateimagine
If anyone said I was appropriating body positivity because I’m straight sized I would probably go to jail. I did not go through years of severe anorexia for you to say my new rolls and marks aren’t enough to really be included in the body positivity movement.
I understand and appreciate you sharing your perspective
YES!!!
I couldn't have said it better myself!
YES!!! BODY. POSITIVITY. FOR. EVERY. BODY!!! 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
It makes me think they're fine with skinny people who hate their bodies. They make it really seem like that
I just want to say as someone who weight cycles, struggles with ED, and body image issues... your videos are so validating. I watch them on days I struggle with intuitive eating or body kindness. Thank you for this conversation today
As a fat person, I found how you handled this video to be really respectful. You asked honest and engaging questions, gave a platform to those who are knowledgeable but live in a fat body, and you were humble the entire time, keeping your mind and heart open.
Every women struggles with body issues, and men as well. No one is or could argue that. The difference is that those with privileged bodies don't have to struggle with society hating their bodies as well, and the lack of opportunities, assessibility, medical care, and respect that comes with living in a fat body. Thank you for acknowledging this and giving this such a great platform. Really made me feel validated and heard. Especially when I keep reading so many comments about how the body positive movement is only "glorifying" unhealthy habits 🤦♀️. Thank you, and you got yourself a new subscriber 🥰.
I agree with John. Being “skinny fat” I’m not “allowed” to relate about feeling fat but I also don’t fit in the “straight body” category.. I don’t get to fit into any category and that’s hard, I don’t get why in one situation I’m the fat friend but in another I’m not fat enough to be included?
i totally agree as well. i’m not “skinny” but i’m not “fat” either, i’m quite literally what you would describe as a normal, or skinny fat body. but i still have so so many insecurities, but am i not allowed to talk about body positivity, simply because i’m not “fat enough”? i don’t think body positivity should be kept only for one type of body, it should be for everyone and anyone. but of course that’s just my opinion
I agree with both of you so much. I feel as though I fall right in the middle of the two. It’s hard because like Hannah said, I have always been the largest in my groups of friends and have had to deal with the rude comments and treatment that often come with that - While at the same time i am left out of conversations about these struggles due to being too “skinny” to be considered “fat” but too “fat” to be considered “skinny”. It just feels so imposible to navigate and as if there are no spaces for people who don’t fall into either of the two extremes.
Adding my two cents, I would say something like, "Based off of my difficult personal experience in a socially acceptable body I can only imagine how much harder it must be to navigate a relationship with food when society is against you. I want to encourage intuitive and non judgemental eating practices but I understand that for people who the world doesn't accommodate for, your path to body acceptance has more hurdles than mine. I can't fully empathize with you but I will work to making this world better for you one step at a time."
That was very well put.
@@ToriPlaysDressUp thank you :)
Thank you for sharing!
To me, body positivity has come to mean loving my body as it exists today, not promising to love it once I lose weight. It means taking care of it now with healthy food and movement. This is the nicest I’ve been to myself in years and it feels amazing.Maybe Body Kindness works better.
That article by Marquisele really put my thoughts into words. It’s really hard to grasp the idea of body positivity and intuitive eating when the majority of people promoting it are thin. I appreciate you addressing this with honesty and an open mind. It’s definitely an ongoing conversation with a lot of gray area.
Thank you ❤️I'm glad that was helpful
It was hard for me to accept that I wasn't part of the "body positivity" movement because I am straight-sized. I have struggled and still struggle sometimes with body image, but struggling with body image and body positivity are different. I don't have to worry about fitting in seats in a waiting room or having to buy two plane tickets. I don't have to worry about going to the doctor because of my size. I loved that you said that it's important that our voices aren't always the loudest and that we mention our privilege. That's so important! I really admire you for being vulnerable and always being willing to learn. This is a complex topic that I am still learning so much about too.
Thank you for admitting how complex everything is even for you as a professional. It puts a lot into perspective.
Thank you. So glad it is helpful
Body neutrality 100% this other movement is too much drama
☕
Whatever is good for you
🍵🍵🍵
No kidding I had no idea there was so much drama behind this stuff or being “body positive”
Body neutrality is the only reason I recovered from my ED. I could not embrace it at first, but I could at least try not to hate it.
This seems like a case of Self Love being mistaken for “body positivity”. Maybe I am not obese but I have dealt with being overweight, skin conditions what have you. There are definitely times I have hated my body & even myself as a result. It’s all relative- even after losing weight people will still tend to graduate into comparing their bodies to fitness models etc. I think body pos might be more for people with external struggles- like discrimination etc. & self love is for people who have more internal struggles & might not have those external pressures
Thank you for sharing your perspective!
I think you hit the nail on the head.
You have said it perfectly
finally, someone gets it
If more people could have this approach to learning and growing, we as a society would be so much better off.
Thank you ❤️agreed
I find it extremely annoying that some people get to decide that I don’t ever get to feel uncomfortable in my body because other people view it as “average” or “normal” or “straight sized”. For people that don’t want to put themselves in a box, they are very quick to do it to everyone else. Thank you Abby for asking these questions and having this discussion. I have shared the body positivity hashtag and been told I shouldn’t but I believe that’s BS.
It is a women’s issue, and you deserve to express how it impacts you. As long as you’re giving them a space, you deserve some too.
I understand your frustration. I'm glad the video was helpful
Yess exactly!!
Lilia x not really a women’s issue.
Yea they must do it to give a taste of that same medicine if you will, cus tho it’s cut and dry the first quotation let’s you know it always as someone else’s expense when somebody expresses those feelings
I've never seen a TH-camr address controversy in such a mature constructive way
Thank you ❤️
i really like seeing this kind of side of you Abbey, i think it suits you and it helps you grow not only as a channel but also as a person. i hope you will do more videos like this
Thank you ❤️
This was really interesting and I enjoyed hearing the different perspectives. Something that one of your guests said really stuck with me regarding the algorithms- it made me realize that although I feel everyone should be able to promote body positivity, it’s not fair if the movement is being “hijacked” by the algorithm- you aren’t seeing an accurate representation of all the different types of bodies promoting it, and that means the people it was meant for aren’t seeing themselves represented. I think there are other ways to promote self love that leave the movement to those who it was meant for. Thank you!
Thank you for sharing! I'm glad it was helpful
I'm mexican and also obese/plus size and I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are trying to gatekeep body positivity. If thinner women want to accept their bodies as well, let them! By gatekeeping who can and can't feel positive about their bodies we are undermining the entire movement by saying who can and can't appreciate their bodies. The whole point is to deserve love and respect OUTSIDE of society's standards and if we start telling people when its ok to accept their bodies and when its not we are doing the exact same thing society was doing to us that started this movement in the first place
I have a very close male friend who once said to me "I thought she was cute and then I saw her in a swimsuit sort of leaning over and she had this fat roll, and I guess every girl has that, but it was gross." She also was a very close friend, and was about 120lbs if even. This kind of discussion about whether or not you're judged "enough" to be included in a conversation about the damage of this kind of judgment is so frustrating. EVERYONE has experience with being judged based on their appearance and people are exposed to all this media showing airbrushed models who make a career out of looking perfect and people are conditioned to expect women to look like that. Being told simultaneously that I'm thin enough but also constantly feeling inadequate compared to media portrayal of women is so discouraging. I dont think the only options of inclusivity should be the very largest of the large. They doesn't make me feel any more adequate, because I dont look like that either. I wish movies and magazines could include women who just arent actively dieting specifically for that photoshoot rather than pretending that including melissa McCarthy eliminates the damaging impact of the thousands of perfect bodies that took extreme measures to achieve
Edit: for some of the commenters, his attitude was definitely shockingly negative but I think it was a knee jerk reaction conditioned by portrayals of women in media, not him just being a jerk. They actually ultimately ended up dating after they started working out together. This wasnt his entire personality, it was just something he was basically taught not to find attractive by the unrealistic expectations placed on all of us.
Okay but honestly I kind of wanna slap your friend for saying that. Our bodies don't exist for the pleasure of others and he needs to understand that there's enough pressure on women already.
So like he expects women to be barbies??
Thank you for sharing. I agree!
These type of men make my blood boil.
You know what else is gross? that attitude. Boy needed a slap and a reality check. Oh you want a body that doesn't have any rolls? guess what skin moves, we humans have muscle and fat, oh yeah your shocked, bc your body does that also ffs, you want something firm that doesn't move? Buy a damn doll hun, its likely the only kind of woman who you'll get with that shitty attitude anyway.
I appreciate your video.
I think we are talking too much about aesthetics. In this video, in the media, social media and when talking about body positivity and fat acceptance.
1. So many people want to lose weight not because of aesthetics, but because they want to be able to move around easier, to lay more comfortable in bed, to not be out of breath so fast and many other simple daily occurrences that people deal with. It's those small things that accumulate over time and make people feel less energetic and happy. We are almost never talking about that as a society. We are all about 'the looks'.
2. That constant talking about aesthetics, only deepens the sense of importance. It makes it become bigger and bigger, since everyone is talking about it. A psychologist once stated: saying to your daughter that she's beautiful is well meant, but it places the importance on her looks. Instead, tell her how well she did something or how a good person she is. Praise her for something else then her looks. I am convinced this works the same for adults.
So stop the constant talking about it. If we can do that, that would be true liberation.
👏
Not to mention the fact that there is an increased risk of heart disease, sleep apnea, type 2 diabetes and more, the more body fat one holds in their midsection.
Side note: This is coming from 215lb 5’6” woman who’s struggled with an ED since childhood. But I believe in looking at the facts rather than feeding people’s egos lies just to appease their raging body complexes that they should really work through in some form of counseling. (Not taking a jab at people who need counseling btw! I’d actually had to go myself and it can be very beneficial.)
I feel like a key point is missing from this discussion: money. This probably has more to do with greater social media issues, but it does feel icky to me that conventionally attractive i.e. skinny cisgendered white women are profiting monetarily from a movement that was meant to empower marginalized women. And, by doing so, pushing those marginalized women out of those spaces. I think you can participate in the body positivity movement without leading it or profiting from it.
I understand this as well, thank you for sharing your perspective
Yes, this is my frustration in a nutshell. Wealthy, straight, cis, thin, able-bodied women becoming the face of a movement that was meant to empower oppressed people, especially of lower incomes.
@@octopiarejustwetspiders Not to mention it's that exact group of people who are framing criticism against them for profiting/leading/appropriating the movement as marginalized women wanting to exclude everyone. 😬
@@rockinrolldog Exactly. Shouting "They're excluding me!" in a space meant for marginalized people that they've completely taken over.
@@octopiarejustwetspiders they are literally being excluded though, by every definition of the word
I Truly believe you are doing your best 😀.
Thank you ❤️
I will be the first to admit I don't know all the ins and outs of body positivity either and I think that's okay. We are always learning more and more and I like that you recognized that you arent all-knowing either!
For sure! Thank you 😊
I don’t usually comment on TH-cam videos but I felt like I had to speak about this one. As a formerly obese person who lost almost 30kgs and then gained some back.. here is my thing.. ever since I gained consciousness I had been mocked about my weight, like that was something a child could control. I was repeatedly told to lose my weight.. And at first I lost it by literally starving myself to the point that I developed ulcer like symptoms from all the acid in my stomach and the doctor told me to eat. And then I went to college and for the first time I was free and the pendulum swung all the way and I gained almost 30kgs during my college years. Then i came back home and finally lost it the right way. And I have finally found my happy place vis a vis my body.
So here is the thing: I wish someone had been gentler with me. All that “ tough love” just pushed me off the cliff.
I wish there was TH-cam to tell me that I need to first respect my body to change it.
Also if there were larger women than me telling that they are “healthy” and don’t need to lose weight I really don’t know what kind of impact that would have had on me. May be I would have not lost the weight which would have been detrimental down the line. I’m happy I did it because beyond a point it became more about feeling good in my head than feeling good in my body.
I got down 30kgs and then I gained some 10kgs back because I guess that’s what happens when I’m eating like a normal person and moving like a normal person. I lost that 30kgs by working out and keeping a strict diet and along the way I let myself I little loose to finally find my ‘set point’ if you will.
Body positivity will look different on each one of us I guess but both the extremes are dangerous. To tell people to never lose weight and to tell people to lose weight constantly. I still dread comments on my body every time I meet a relative. I mentally prepare myself every single time and that helps me to not spiral out. At the end of the day you have to do what makes you the happiest. Don’t be an internet fad. Just exercise if you can and eat if you must.
Thank you very much for sharing your experience
Thank you so much for sharing a persernal story. I don't comment myself, but I have had a similar experience to you as well and I totally agree with you!
I just feel like I shouldn’t have to disclaimer all of my thoughts and feelings.
you don't have to .. and you shouldn't .. they are your feelings and they are for you not anyone else
But diet culture & societal pressure is about having an almost unachievable body which is a size 0-2, perfect proportion while also being very curvy and white. This effects even, "straight sized," white women. It does not effect them to the extent that it does for an obese, non curvy, black woman but just because we experience different levels of it, does not disqualify anyone's struggle. It is the SAME exact argument as saying someone who was yelled at as a child did not experience any harm because another child was beaten badly every day. Yes the abuse was less for the first child but it DOES NOT discount the pain or suffering the first child endured. That is what some of these fat acceptance women are doing, using this argument because they are stuck in victim mode. They feel that they are the ONLY ones who have suffered and if anyone else has suffered similarly to them but are not exactly like them, that it takes away their pain even though it doesn't.
EDIT: Also would like to mention, there are many shames that people experience about their bodies that don't have to do with being fat. For example, I was born with severe congenital, orthopedic issues that I ended up getting massive surgeries for. I walked funny before the surgeries and was made fun of and have large scares on my legs and hips. Am I not aloud to be body positive with that because I am white and a size 2? That's ridiculous. And also just because my issue is something larger than (for example) a club foot, does NOT discount anyone's pain they endured for having that issue.
Edit: Also if the algorithms are the things pushing out fat black bodies than why are we criticizing the body positive people! We should be criticizing the algorithm! This makes no sense..
👏
I agree.
I agree. According to some, I might look like a "thin, white woman" (whether or not that is true, is besides the point here). I have been picked on and full on insulted because of my body my whole life. Potential romantic interests have rejected me solely based on my body, and listed things they didn't like. I have never been on a beach in swim wear, ever, because of this constant trauma and shame. If one day (didn't happen yet, but if) I took a photo of myself where one of my insecurities was showing, and I felt happy and proud and body positive about it, nobody would have the right to shame me for being body positive, just because I might appear smaller and/or whiter than someone else who is struggling. We don't know what everyone has gone through... Why not work together for a better culture?
Exactly! This isn’t the oppression olympics. Everyone struggles with their self image in one shape or form but just because someone smaller than you is insecure about the same thing doesn’t mean they thing your put on a worse level. Same as if someone saying emotional abuse really fucked them up doesn’t mean they’re saying your physical abuse didn’t fuck you up or that you’re too far gone
I totally agree. Just because someone has more privilege in the eyes of other person doesn't mean they have less issues than that person. For example - there are people in the world that don't have acces to food. In their eyes fighting over how much we can eat is ridiculous. But for us it can be a serious problem. So what's the point of arguing who has it worst?
**Summary of my comment:** Everyone's feelings and experiences are valid regardless of our identities, but it's also important to recognize our privileges and how we take up space and can support others who don't share our privileges! Thanks Abbey for being a positive example around this issue.
_____________________________
I'm a straight-sized Black person who is in recovery from an eating disorder, and I think some of the comments might be misinterpreting what the original author of the article wrote. I don't think it's that white, thin, conventionally attractive women aren't able to have eating disorders, experience body dysmorphia, and/or learn to love their bodies-- mental illness and eating disorders don't care what race, gender, socioeconomic status, etc. we are.
I think the author's frustration is more so with the disparity in *attention* and glorifying of these women's bodies -- which are closer to conventional beauty standards than her own body, and bodies similar to her own -- that's being put at the forefront of a movement that was created for fat, Black women. The fact that the body positivity movement is largely white-washed and limited in size I think is more so where the frustration is from. And as someone who isn't white, but still has thin privilege-- I can see where she's coming from.
I think it's important to uplift the voices of those who don't have the privileges we have. So maybe a way for the white, thin "ADDs" (that the author mentions) to use their privileges for good, could be sharing the accounts/articles/etc. of fat, Black women, queer and trans people, folks with disabilities, and other bodies that are pushed out of the mainstream body positivity movement.
For myself personally, I'm more about "body acceptance" since body positivity for me feels unattainable at this point in my life and recovery. I'm grateful for the things my body can do, and I accept where my body's at, and honestly it took me *years* to get to this point. So, I'm okay with just camping out in the "body acceptance" side of things, and if others feel empowered by body positivity, that's fine too!
Thank you Abbey for not only being introspective and humble enough to look at your own privileges, but also to share the handles and voices of BIPOC creators! It takes strength to be able to do all that on the internet, where cancel culture is so prevalent.
You put it so well empathetically and eloquently. Much love to you 💜
This is the only comment I agree with here lol
I love Abbeys commitment to her growth and ability to question her own views.
I have seen her go from a more strict HAES dietician and moderate. I feel like I vibe more with this new Abbey that doesn’t demonize weight loss and understand that.
Thank you Abbey for being you.
Thank you! So glad 😊
I am mixed (black and white) and this article made me sick. Color has nothing to do with it and you can absolutely love your body and want it be smaller depending on your motive. If your weight is causing your knees to hurt or your at risk for serious disease. We are all women black, white, tan, Asian, etc... and we should be supporting one another period. These type of things are fanning the flames of prejudice. Loved the point that you can dye your hair and paint your nails but oooh don’t loose weight.
Thank you for sharing. I'm glad that part was helpful
I think you are mixing up body positivity and self-love. Everyone should love themselves of course everyone has struggles with their bodies. But thin white women are very represented and very accepted in American/Canadian culture, I really can’t say that about representation of fat Black women or just the bodies of black women period. and to pretend that those struggles are equivalent is intellectually dishonest at best, and pushing out people who really need this movement (the people it was started for) at worst. Like I just searched the tag for Body positivity on Instagram and most of the posts are straight sized white women, and very few of the post are by BIPOCs. And of those very few of those were of darker complexions. But those are the people this movement was made for. I’m not saying that other people can’t be Body Positive but the movement is about celebrating unconventional bodies, but it can not do that on social media because algorithms and people in or cultures favor those straight sized white bodies.
I just want to know: how would the author suggest that thin, white dietitians operate? If they can’t preach body positivity and
confidence, should they just explicitly and blatantly promote diet culture instead of “subliminally”? Does she just want all dietitians that aren’t large and poc to just not practice their craft? I just don’t understand what the alternative would be.
I haven’t read the full article, so I can’t say for sure, but I think it’s less about thin, white, dieticians not preaching body positivity and more about them not appropriating it. It sounds to me like the point is understanding that the movement was created for people labels as “other” to the stereotypical “good” or “normal” body. So while it would be perfectly okay to support the movement and teach its tenets to clients, that’s not necessarily the same as hashtagging it and getting sponsorships from wellness brands to promote body positivity as someone with a body that society is already positive about. When the face of body positivity looks like the “ideal” body, it just re-marginalizes all those the movement was created to benefit. That’s the messaging I’m taking away from it anyway. Sorry for any typos!
Thank you for asking these hard questions. I don’t have all of the answers but I'm listening
@@kaylabrooks957 yes that’s the gist of it
@LS AE
But what if I was fat, but am no longer? I can only speak publicly about until I lose the weight?...
@@kaylabrooks957 thanks for that perspective you make a lot of good points!
Smaller or straight sized people see the body positivity movement as "Everyone has insecurities and every body gets negative comments" so we should love and accept our bodies (very true).
Larger or non-straight sized people want to be seen as human, want to be seen on tv without being a punchline or caricature, want to be seen in magazines without condescendingly being called brave, want to be able to buy any clothes they want instead of having to seek out special stores, and want their symptoms to be acknowledged by doctors instead of everything being ignored due to their weight (very necessary).
The insecurities and negative comments for smaller people WILL improve if there is positive and equal representation of all body types. The minute we stop demonizing "fat" people and start treating them as human, smaller people will stop living in fear of appearing fat or being scared of the rolls/bumps on their bodies and be able to focus on things that matter (health, hobbies, happiness, etc.). The body positive movement will benefit ALL bodies, but if the movement becomes "bodies that are already widely accepted, need to be accepted" like it is starting to, there will be no progress.
Abbey we ALL have something to learn, but i really appreciate your openness, humilty and genuine engagement with a difficult topic! Cheers
I follow both you and John (you actually introduced me to him lol), so I actually saw your video on his stream and I was completely shocked when I saw all of the negative comments directed towards you. Personally, I completely understood the context of what you were saying but I of course understand why John had gotten hurt by it and I'm really glad you apologized for it. Still, I have no clue how so many of John's followers could be so against your content. You have singlehandedly helped me into a less disordered way of thinking about food. You're kind, compassionate, and always back yourself up with facts. Please don't feel as though you're "shrill" or a "bitch" just because you do your research and own it. You're badass and caring and no one can take that away from you. You're the best Abby!
Thank you for sharing! I'm so glad it's been helpful ❤️
The wording of “body positivity” has never resonated with me. I shouldn’t feel shame for not liking my body, especially after the changes that 4 babies caused to it. I shouldn’t have to feel either positive or shame about it. I have learned to appreciate and respect what my body does for me and that the way I look doesn’t reflect who I am inside.
So I personally resonate more with “normalize all bodies”. Not good or bad, just that all our bodies are valid and neither better nor worse than others. Obviously there are still many people who are seen as physically “better” or more desirable by society and that will take a long long time to overcome (if ever) but those peoples bodies are just as valid as mine (which is not deemed societally good). If we make the whole topic neutral then I think that would be better.
I also think that someone can want something for their own body (for example, to lose weight) and not feel like other people who don’t chose or want that for their body are bad or wrong. Same as someone can love and want lip injections but that doesn’t mean they think everyone should want or do that. Everyone has their own preferences or ideals of beauty and as long as we aren’t putting that on others we shouldn’t take it as a personal attack.
TL;DR:
My body carries me through life and I respect it for that. But I don’t love it and I’m also learning not to hate it. This is my body and it’s normal.
Thank you for sharing your perspective
I love this comment. I don't need to always like or love my body, and I don't need to be told it's likeable/lovable as a reaction to me talking about how I want to strengthen/shrink/adapt/improve it.
Exactly what I think about it. I think its such a pressure at times to find every single part of my body beautiful.
Im a mom as well and even tho I absolutely never hat perky breasts, but now they're just realy saggy and Im only 25. I felt ashamed for not finding them beautiful and even to scared to tell people that Im thinking of getting a lift.i know I would be judged for it, and that puts even more pressure on me.
I love my body and accept my body for what it can do and that it literally created a tiny perfect human being, but Im tired of having to find everything about me beautiful.
I like the term acceptance. Acceptance doesn't mean that you are happy with it or that you can't change it, but you've accepted your body (or anything else in your life) for the reality of what it is. It's a mindfulness skill.
You addressed this so well. Thank you for this incredibly valuable discussion!
Admittedly, when I first found your channel and heard your passionate anti-diet culture advice, I felt angry and resentful, and didn't quite understand why. This whole body positivity conversation finally explains those feelings: I was pissed that a thin person who seemed to have never struggled with weight gain in her life, was promoting intuitive eating and the inclusion of all foods in one's diet. For me, as a person who has struggled with disordered eating my entire life, lost weight and binge-eaten myself to obesity multiple times, I resented these messages so much. But because I value science so highly, I decided to adopt some principles that you recommend, and my relationship with food and out of control binging has improved immensely. My toxic behavior of comparing myself to others and assuming I couldn't really learn anything from them just because their journeys look different from mine, was definitely harming me before.
Thanks for this conversation, Abbey! I think asking the question "what/ where is the cut off" for HAES, BOPO etc is grossly missing the point. The body positive movement (at its best) is inherently an anti-diet, anti-capitalist, anti-patriarchal, anti-colorist, anti-white-supremacist, pro-queer, inclusive-of-disabled-bodies etc movement. It calls in those people at the margins and says "Hi, we have space for you here!" Capitalism says there needs to be gatekeepers because there's not enough to go around and produces an army of privileged people who says "Hey! Let's discuss where the cut off is." If you're asking yourself this question, you've lost the point. I am a fat, black woman and my job as a body positive person is to call in people with less privilege than I into this movement. That's it. I do not question what the cut off is but rather, where is there space for me to continue to call in those who aren't acknowledged here? How can I call in darker skinned, fatter, disabled, or trans women into this space so they benefit from it as much as I am. The "cut off" is: *What am I doing to profit (capitalism) off this message and exclude those who are truly on the margins*? And this is what I love about Food Psych's Christy Harrison: she has dedicated her platform to calling in soooooo many people who are far less privileged than herself literally EVERY. SINGLE. WEEK.
Thank you for this comment. I absolutely love Christy Harrison!
Oh lord...I thought I was done but I guess I'm not. Since we're discussing the "cut off," smaller-bodied white folks, ya'll know what the cut off is! You know but play like you don't! Abbey gave the example of the anorexic (most likely) white person who shows off the progress they're making on social media by showing their rolls and hashtags body positive. But who's advocating for the fat, black girl who is also anorexic but who doctors and society tell is doing a great job on their diet and is losing weight. The social ramifications of co-opting body positivity often means life or death for those living on the margins. And the funny part about all this is when people with the least privilege have the most visibility in the movement, smaller bodied, white folks always benefit the most from it. We (black, larger bodied people) are working to liberate you too. You always benefit. So rather than wasting everyone's time asking what the "cut off" is, work on amplifying the voices of those on the margins. Because you'll win too. Often times, more than we will.
For sure! Thank you for sharing!!
@@Akornefa fuck yes - so glad you commented.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! I really appreciate how you framed this!
Honestly, I am very conflicted by this whole "body positivity" thing. First, I don't think anyone has the right to police the words in which other people use to describe themselves. If someone wants to call themselves body positive, they should be allowed to do that, and I do not believe it is an "act of oppression" or "violence" for a thin white women to say she is body positive.
I do empathize with the anger and bitterness many fat and/or BIPOC women feel towards conventionally attractive and thin ADDs or "body positive" activists.
A thin ADD posting a picture of their pizza or desert with captions like "F diet culture!" Or "you don't need to diet" is likely going to be met with praise. A fat woman is generally not praised for eating pizza or desert and in many cases will be judged for their 'unhealthy' choices. Same thing with bathing suits. A thin women sitting at an angle to show of her skin rolls in a bikini will be praised for bravery. The fat woman will be gawked at. I find many of the things certain ADDs and thin body positive activists say and do fall completely flat for me because they don't acknowledge that they have a much different experience than someone who is very large. They almost sell it as "I'm happy in my body which means you should be happy in yours!" even though they have a conventionally attractive body that is largely desired and many others do not.
I understand. Thank you for sharing your thoughts
😁this comment needs more likes. Nuanced, kind, and honest. I appreciate it!
Thank you for sharing this.
Re: the idea of intersectionality, Kimberly Crenshaw (the person who coined the term intersectionality) talks about the basement metaphor. It is the idea that if we are crammed in a basement and there is a small opening at the top, just the people at the top can come through and leave folks behind. But if you build a system for the people at the bottom to get out of the basement, then everyone gets out. So when marginalized folks say "this is for us" what it means is "when we build a system for us marginalized, we build a system for everyone." No on is actually left out.
I hope that helps and makes sense. But I think the basement metaphor is implicit in a lot of this conversation, but hasn't been said.
For sure. Thank you for sharing
I have hashimoto and ME/CFS. Whenever my thyroid is not optimal I gain weight and I can not workout or cut a lot of calories because of CFS so it's very hard to loose weight. There is not much I can do about it and most of the time I just have to accept my fate. Do not judge fat people. You don't know what they are struggling with.
I am right there with ya. I have Graves & Hashimotos disease, an issue with my digestion, and an adrenal fatigue issue. All of which cause bloating and weight gain. I am a fitness instructor. It is SO HARD sometimes because I’m in a curvier body and I don’t look like a typical fitness instructor. And I feel like absolute crap about it sometimes. Some years, I’ll gain a bunch of weight, some years I lose weight, but I’m constantly eating well and exercising more than the average person (even while feeling sick). Nobody has a clue what my routines are, what I do to take care of myself, but nobody has the right to judge it. You’re a warrior though, my friend and even though I don’t know you, I’m proud of you. 💪
For sure. Thank you for sharing your experience
@@jlh5310 yess, thank you! I eat as healthy as I can and I do what is good for me. People talking and judging does not affect me anymore because I know I do all I can and getting stressed about things you can't change is not productive.
I have very similar issues
Abbey, I am a person who has a scientific background (biology) and incredibly often I feel uncomfortable when we're being called out as a whole because people have reasons to distrust us. But personally, I believe the most important quality in science is to be able to correct yourself when you're wrong or you made an opinion not having the whole information. Which is okay and normal because it's impossible to be be aware of every single thing ever. What is important is to change and better ourselves when new evidence arises.
I've followed your YT journey almost since the beginning and I not only respect you, I'm still here because you have shown your intentions are to help others, to better yourself and to help us all do better.
Thank you so much ❤️
I have a scientific background in biology & chemistry myself, and I TOTALLY agree with you! We should listen to what the science is telling us and adjust our mindset to carve a better forward-moving path.
I think if we promoted a "worthy at every size" or everyone is worthy, we might avoid some of these harmful messages. We are all worthy whether we are fit, fat or too thin. To exclude anyone from feeling positive about themselves regardless or being typical body type or an atypical body type can be harmful to their self esteem and we all deserve to feel good and feel worthy
I really appreciate the importance of all of these views, but I’m also completely exhausted by all of the semantics. Gate keeping is getting ridiculous. Carefully choosing which hashtags you can/can’t use because of that gate keeping is ridiculous. Blaming others for the way THEIR CONTENT makes YOU feel is getting ridiculous. It’s truly exhausting and at the end of the day we should just celebrate people loving themselves whether you think they deserve to have insecurities or not 🤷♀️
@brvihu so true! I am conveniently pretty because I am white and “skinny” so I’m always told I’m not allowed to feel self conscious but why should the fact that other people also have insecurities take away from mine? And if anything, it takes away from the purpose of the movement of having EVERYBODY love their bodies
What this person said!
What I love here... you were 1) transparent, 2) apologized (huge kudos) and 3) intelligent. Thank you! This is what we need as strong examples. Thank you.
wow this video makes me even more confused about the way the west is overly critical over every little thing! you're damned if you do damned if you don't. who cares whether someone is bp or not? or whether someone sees themselves as bp and you don't. just let people be and cut everyone some slack. we are so worried about the wrong things all because of superficial things like body types and food like just be as active as you humanly can and eat as healthy as you can and keep it moving. if you find it hard to do so, inquire how best you can get help if not oh well keep trying. Also don't look to dieticians to be the know it all and be all end all of everything diet wise. they're human beings too and have other struggles just like everyone else. I hope these movements will die down and we xan focus on real world problems like starvation, poverty, unlawful killings, and getting people like kim jon un out of power in north korea. All I'm trying to say as an immigrant from Ghana is that guys life isn't meant to be this complicated. and there are more fishes to fry than being concerned about what another person thinks of themselves. if you wanna be bp, great! don't let anyone stop you..ughh
i also want to understand when people day it was created for marginalized people especially black people do Americans know that black people are all over the world? or lgbtq+ do not only exist in this part of the world? can't speak for all of us when in Africa esp we really don't have time to even think about these things...
Thank you for sharing your perspective
my thoughts exactly !!
You are so right!
As a special education teacher, I needed to hear John’s words today.
Driver of the “struggle” bus here 🤦🏽♀️
Glad that was helpful
Making missteps is completely human, but how we respond and and move forward is what shows our character. Tysm for showing an exemplary character.
Thank you ❤️
As a 33yr old woman who had RNY Bypass 3 years ago and is maintaining 110+lbs lost. I need body positivity in my life, I have so much skin that hangs and folds and rolls. Because of that I don't celebrate what I've done for my health because I still have a big muffin top. Or my arms hang, or my stretch marks are everywhere on my body and that's forever.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope body positivity is helpful for you
Love your body enough to treat it well. You wouldn’t abuse a person you love, so why would you hurt your body and then call it self-love?
Agreed ❤️
I think the concept of “body neutral” that Ama Scriver discussed is really interesting. I’ve been noticing lately how it feels as though you can either love your body or hate your body, but you can’t be in between. On one side you have people on the internet making a joke out of being self-deprecating and how much they hate themselves, and on the other you have these women who preach loving yourself 100% of the time, and I feel like the extreme polarization can be really intimidating. As someone who has both good and bad days, it makes me feel lost because I can’t fully identify with either side (though obviously I’d much rather be 100% body positive). But it’s like I feel like something that is so body positive isn’t made for me because I can’t achieve that level of confidence 24/7, and it’s also kinda shaming me for not being able to get there.. like there must be something wrong with me because I’m not loving every aspect of myself constantly, when I thought the whole point was to just encourage self-acceptance and love! It makes me more frustrated with myself by making it such an extreme mindset. Hope that makes sense, thanks for this convo!
I understand your frustration. Thank you for sharing your perspective!
This is the first time I've come to the comments. I'm so impressed with the compassion and thoughtfulness of the subscribers. It is really a testament to how you've cultivated this space. I've been watching Abbey go from staunchly HAES to a more moderate dietician and it's great to see the growth she's been on. Great work on always moving forward, Abbey. You are an example for others.
Thank you so much ❤️
Many people in today’s society cannot handle someone else having even slightly different opinion to their own. I’m not talking about racist/xenophobic opinions which should always be challenged and called out, in talking about people with different lives being shaped in different ways due to upbringing, education, life experience. There is an awful trend towards ‘if you do not agree with me you are problematic’. We used to be taught how to think, now we are told what to think.
when were we taught how to think? that sounds great
I understand and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I don’t have all of the answers but I'm listening
@@therabbithat I feel like when I was at university 20+ years ago we were encouraged to start conversations with each other, not with a view to winning debate but to understand better. We were encouraged to consume different types of media with different viewpoints to our own - not with the intention of changing how we think - but to recognise that not everybody in the world may feel the same about things as we do.
It’s obvious we live in such a privileged society, in a privileged time because we can argue about the politics of foods and diets. Once upon a time, food was for survival only. Now it’s a political statement about race and a way to make a ton of money. We have much to be grateful for.
I feel like I would be crucified if I wrote that people who find themselves insulted by these topics are too sensitive and privileged. But I just can't process this as that serious of a talk that people should cancel other people for. Sometimes social media topics go sooo deep that they lose they original meaning.
Oh fuck off. Fat is political. Food is political. Just because we’re not starving doesn’t mean that we don’t have the right to discuss issues that affect some of the most vulnerable people in society. Also food insecurity is a huge issue, so sure they’re not starving to death, but there are millions of people that do struggle to have enough food to eat and have difficulty getting more nutritious foods. Again, that’s a political issue. And race has always been involved with food and diets and bodies. This isn’t something new. Having these discussions isn’t privileged, they’re necessary.
Food laws and food morality / politics has existed for thousands of years. It is not a modern concept.
@@tamarblackburn4312 I think the confusion comes in because we are not discussing food quality, availability of the food, food production,...I actually think this has nothing to do with food actually. They talk about body image, prejudice, health care problems when it comes to treating people with bigger bodies, which in it self falls under prejudice again. And most importantly social media, this is social media issue. Of course we can learn a lot from people and discussions on the internet, but that just proves your and mine privilege. The world is not talking about this, because they don't have access to the internet or they don't have time/money/motivation to research these topics.
@@marijanailjic1790 totally agree!
I wonder how helpful it is to have to content cop every single term. I'm thinking it would be much more progressive to start seeing more black bodies in the media instead of saying that this term is only for poc marginalized bodies. And I say that as a black woman myself. Also getting tired of this myth that black people are just naturally fatter. It's the food that we eat that's a part of our culture that makes us fat.
I actually love when anybody any race shows themselves without posing. I used to hate myself a lot for never even coming close, but now that I have a more realistic goal I feel better
For sure!
Thank you for speaking on this topic. When I first found your channel, that was one of the things that I struggled with. I am a larger woman and have always struggled with my weight and here was a dietitian telling me to just eat what I felt I should eat, while having concerns with my weight for health reasons. Seeing you being in the weight range recommended, just felt like I couldn’t relate. But thanks for your words, that we all struggle, my issue isn’t bigger than yours. Loving ourselves and those around us is key, not comparing ourselves. Thank you!
So glad it was helpful
Having read Maquisele Mercedes's piece, I feel like John is putting words in her mouth a little bit. First of all, her piece is directed at anti-diet dieticians specifically and is taking them to task for implicit fatphobia in posts that say like "see, I love MY (straight sized, non-marginalized) body, isn't that radical?" without regard for the fact that they live in generally accepted smaller bodies. I think a lot of the questions you raise are good ones, but I don't think that the piece was really directed at someone like John posting pictures of his own body and loose skin. The piece focuses specifically on anti-diet dieticians in straight-sized bodies who post things that imply that their bodies are marginalized because they don't have the same bodies as models. As a result, they take up more space in the conversation that could be used to amplify the voices of those in larger bodies, but more importantly, their posts reinforce fatphobia. To generalize that to the entire Body Positivity "movement" saying that straight-sized people don't "have struggles" is a stretch.
Thank you for sharing your perspective
I guess a big problem is that the name 'body positivity' in itself doesn't sound like something that is reserved for any particular group, even though when you dig deeper into its history and meaning, it is (which is totally fine). I agree that it is important for the space to be open and inviting to people from minority groups, whether they be POC, overweight, trans, disabled, etc.
HOWEVER, a lot of people are probably not going to take the time to do the background research until they are 'attacked' on social media, because to be honest, if you heard of a movement called 'body positivity', and that's all you knew about it, you probably wouldn't even think to check. In fact I only found out about any of these connotations after watching Abby's video as I have never really been involved or interested in looking into it.
Of course, being unaware in the first place is a privilege I have due to being white and 'straight sized', but I hope that people can understand where confusion may arise, and that perhaps there needs to be a more explicit term for the movement that makes it clear who it is trying to uplift and help so that there is no ignorant takeover of such an important space.
Ps. Interestingly (and I am seriously not trying to play devils advocate AT ALL, just providing some perspective), when I do see those white thin women showing off rolls on social media from ~the algorithm~ , I have sort of been like 'hell yeah, I have those'. However, I don't follow any 'body-focused' accounts as I find for me personally, the less I see about body image on social media the better, regardless of whether it is supposed to be positive or not. But just want to reiterate that I don't think that it is right for the body positive movement to be hijacked by these people regardless of their intent.
@@sstg1801 I agree with all you're saying. And I think even reading a piece as specific as Mercedes's, directed at specific behaviors that certain anti-diet dieticians do, it can be hard not to take it personally or think it's an "attack" on your behavior. I always recommend, as a privileged person, to sit with those feelings before responding and try to better understand them. Like Abbey said, an article like this can be challenging!
Also, re your PS - I know what you're saying. I'm currently pregnant, and seeing normal, non-edited pictures of pregnant and postpartum bodies helps me know what's normal, even at a "straight size"! I think there's room for that! Just not with the implication of "see, I can love my body, even when it looks like this." That type of framing just reinforces fatphobia because it's a straight size person saying "look, my body is slightly more fat-adjacent, and I still love it! Isn't that radical?"
People don't realize that not everything has to be about/for them.
If a thin woman is showing her skin folds on the internet to fight against beauty standards or simply fight against her insecurities, then that's totally her choice. And if you don't like it or it doesn't speak to you, then look away and focus on content that you actually like. They are not doing any harm by showing their cellulite or small fat rolls, quite the opposite. There are many thin women (like me) who feel much better when seeing those type of bodies. We don't see many imperfect thin bodies either. They're usually photoshopped and/or surgically "perfected".
"Thin white women" and thin women in general can struggle as much with body image as fat people.
Can we please stop gatekeeping insecurities? There is no need to compete against each other by trying to figure out who's more "privileged" than someone else or who has the right to feel the most disadvantaged by how their body looks.
Everyone no matter what they look like can struggle with their bodies due to different factors like bullying, eating disorders, disabilities and so on.
And all of these people no matter their weight deserve to feel positive about their bodies.
You made a fair point, and I agree that anyone of any size and race can struggle. But in the same vein, people have to realise not everything is for or about them, aka privileged, thin bodies saturating the body positivity movement when it was specifically made for larger bodies. I have a smaller body, and I still have rolls, cellulite, and insecurities, but I'm mindful that it isn't my space to hold in that movement because I haven't experienced the same kind of discrimination larger bodies people face. It's like Abbey said, she doesn't want to 'all lives matter' the movement.
@@zzhi6937 I get what you mean but I actually think it's quite problematic to try and gatekeep such a big movement as body positivity (especially because of the reasons I listed above).
And what would the criterias to be allowed to take part in the movement look like anyway? How fat do you have to be in order to be able to call yourself body positive? Is it only black women who are allowed to be body positive? What if someone was obese and lost weight? Are they not part of the movement anymore now?
The problem I have is that many people in the bopo movement try to convey a message of tolerance, acceptance and challenging beauty standards all while putting labels on all different kind of people.
"You're too thin, you're too white, you're too this or that.. and that's why you're not allowed to be body positive".
We don't need another movement that supports one group of women but brings another one down or seperates us all in different spaces. We all have bodies.
Not too mention that there's also pressure to not lose weight or wanting to lose weight because people are afraid to lose their friends and social connections within this community. That's a pretty toxic environment imo.
@@fruitshakebanaane agreed. as a thin-ish, tall (5’10) mixed race woman i see a lot of this “if you don’t look like x, the. you’re not part of the movement.” it’s just bullshit. i was reading other comments of how a bopo activist targeted a recovering anorexic because they didn’t deem her recovered because her body was still healing and growing post anorexia and how that there are “enough white anorexics” on instagram. what a movement right? so proud. it’s genuinely disgusting.
@@zzhi6937 I understand where you're coming from but, honestly, pretty much entirely disagree. Body positive... but only if you look a certain way? That doesn't even make sense to me. If people are promoting body positivity but then saying "oh, but you have a 'good' body so you shouldn't be posting anything as part of the movement", aren't they just essentially saying that, if the body that isn't like theirs is 'good', that their own is bad? That isn't positive for them OR for the other person who may still very well be struggling to accept their appearance.
@@amed9476 agree to disagree I guess! Movements like this are always meant to cater for a certain community and I just personally don't feel it's right for a body like mine to hold space there. I had an eating disorder and got body shamed for being both too fat and too skinny. I totally understand the frustrations because it seems like sometimes there isn't a place for us. I don't think they're essentially saying their body is 'bad', but anyway you look at it, larger bodies ARE more discriminated by society.
As a mixed, size 14/16, female, body positive to me is for everyone. However, the stomach rolls while sitting or the girls who pull their high waisted pants down to their hips are not body positive. Typically they have “straight” bodies & by promoting their body it’s not any different then just showing a swimsuit. Because my stomach pokes out through my pants, I have a stomach roll without sitting down. And now I think a lot of large bodies are using the body positivity movement to just be accepted. To not be seen as someone who’s only life goal is to lose weight or someone promoting obesity.
To me being body positive is embracing your body and recognizing that your body is yours. It doesn’t mean you always love your body or are only talk positively to yourself. But just that you start respecting yourself & recognizing this is your only body and you should be able to look the way your are. And that your shape or ability doesn’t define your worth. On the commercial side being body inclusive would just be offering more sizes. Seeing different sized and ability models.
Thank you for sharing your perspective
I'm glad to hear you speaking up about this and admitting to still being in the learning process. I'm in the learning process too and just wanted to share my take.
I am a white woman and can only speak from my experience, but I absolutely faced discrimination when I was fat. A lot of women (and men) who are fat don't need to be told to love themselves or to accept their stretch marks - many fat people already love themselves! What we need is to be treated with equal respect by the rest of society.
I've also heard influencers speak about how the body positivity movement has transformed from it's political roots, into something that caters to individuals who suffer from body image issues and eating disorders. While this is a valid issue - this concern is quite different from the movement's roots. I've heard arguments that these should be separate movements, and that the original social body positive movement could be called "Body Justice" or something along those lines. I'm not sure how I feel about the names, but I'm glad the conversation is happening.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I don’t have all of the answers but I'm listening
For me I've always been really shy about my body even when I was at my peak of traditional beauty. Like I felt ashamed to show skin. I see how that's a different issue than someone who is discriminated against based on their body because it's in my head not other people's but I would still like a hashtag to feel empowered to be seen with no sense of shame.
I'm sorry. Thank you for sharing your experience
I absolutely agree with John's position on this, especially when he talked about "smaller" people struggling with their body and "larger" people saying that their struggles are bigger or that they have more struggles, totally invalidating others struggles. I think its important to see that everyone struggles and by shutting some peoples voices up on this, it isn't conveying that people should be positive with themselves. It quite the opposite actually. Comparing yourself to others isn't exactly body positive in the first place so I'm at a loss as to how that's considered part of the movement.
I think there's a major point here that is brought up in the article, and I still don't see how it applies to you. I've never seen you use your own 'perfect white body' as a reference for body positivity. As a white, thin woman dietitian there is an undeniable angle, but it doesn't mean you have nothing to contribute to the body positivity movement. I think you work very hard on trying to show people how they can use food to feel good, whoever they are. And if you get mentionned in posts like these, it's probably because they haven't seen your videos... That said, I think not using the hashtag for your own promotion is a great idea, because a lot of people see those quick posts and might not know who you are and get annoyed at the mere sight of it... We have to remember that pictures are just that, and seeing a thin white woman with a bodypositive hashtag on the pic might send the wrong idea!
For sure. Thank you for sharing your perspective
@@AbbeysKitchen I also think it's a very hypocritical world because as you mentioned, people also recover from anorexia. And a lot of people have very bad and negative views of people with anorexia, as though it was somehow all their fault... It's a tricky world we live in! But you make it a litte simpler :)
How are white peoples body’s perfect anyway? Who decided that? I think Africans or Latina’s or Iranians/Middle Eastern/Turkish have nicer bodies because they have curves. It’s all relative
@@Natttttttttt oh this you hit the core of the problem in my opinion!!! I was forming it in my head, but couldn't articulate it. Like why are we still stuck that white, thinn etc is the pretty norm. It baffles me! THAT is what needs to be changed!
As a disabled person im conflicted and im white chubby (but hourglass-ish) and hetero but want to work with body positivity without appropriating.
Also I think most of this issue has to do with algorithms in social media. Its not necessarily harmful for straight sized people to be body positivity, but the trouble is that they are the voices at the forefront for the exact reason that we need the body positive movement, that thin bodies are seen as better and are pushed more to the general public.
I always appreciate how thoughtful and sincerely open to criticism you are. I've learned so much from your videos and have been trying to adopt a "body neutral" mindset for several months now and work on some of my negative associations with food. You do good work, Abbey, and I think you put positive things into the world! =)
Thank you! ❤️
I think personal trainers are in the same boat with dietitians. To me, being a body positive trainer means working to ensure that everyone (regardless of body size/disability/age/gender expression) feels comfortable in the gym. It's not my job to shape a client into what I think they "should" look like. My job is to help a client reach *their* goals, whatever those happen to be. I'm the GPS giving directions, not the one setting the destination.
I appreciate that you’re doing the work to be more inclusive. But I am a little bit frustrated that, unless I missed it, there still is no mention of disability as an axis of oppression. I understand that people with disabilities and other differences are treated as though they’re a token and people like Alan Roberts will say that body positivity was for burn victims and amputees, but it’s literally repulsive that so many body positive advocates can’t stomach the idea of actually including people with physical differences. Disability is almost never included in social justice spaces and that’s so embarrassing.
This!
Isn't shaming women for having a certain type of body what the body positivity movement is against? I'm naturally thin and white but I starved myself until I literally almost died multiple times for 6 years. For me, accepting the fact it's okay for my stomach to roll when I sit and that stretch marks are normal was a really big deal and an important step for recovery. I've never posted anything on my social media about it, because it's not like me to be that personal on there, but the fact I've been barred from doing that because my body type and skin colour makes someone feel uncomfortable just feels kinda.. wrong. Isn't that what the movement should be against? Diet culture affects us all, no matter what size or shape, so why can't I be body positive? Multiple studies have shown eating disorder prevalence does not differ across races.. the DSM-5 states anorexia nervosa is characterised by low weight.. Sorry if I've missed the point but this seems wrong on so many levels.
I understand your frustration and appreciate you sharing your experience. I don't have all of the answers to these hard questions but I'm listening
I don't consider myself part of the body positive movement, but I have a hard time understanding why everyone can't express their own positivity toward their body in whatever way they want. I understand how "Instagram vs Real Life" posts aren't necessarily "body positive" because the posed photo is framed as "ideal" which implicitly means the unposed photo is NOT ideal, but I do think there is a place for them, especially for young people who are comparing themselves to perfectly lit/posed photos of celebrities and social media influencers. Just because we've seen a million of these posts, there is always someone who is seeing it for the first time, and it could be so impactful.
Good point!
I left Tumblr years ago because of this exact situation. Everyday I’d scroll and see beautiful thin people, or curvy people with flat bellies, not just white though, telling me to love my body and it did the opposite and made my depression so much worse. Leaving that was the best decision for me but I’m still trying to figure out how to love and respect my body while in the process of losing weight. But honestly, I think respect is the key word there.
off topic but i like your hair and sweater so much
Thank you!
I appreciate this video a lot, you showed maturity and responsibility in being accountable. This is the root philosophy of health sciences where you should thrive to put out the best for people watching and being willing to reflect on your own thoughts and reactions. This is a great proof of your character Abby, and thank you for letting us get to know more people we can also follow and learn from! I love your videos in general but I feel like I really did learn from this one and it has brought me to reflect on my own thoughts and behavior in regards to body scrutiny. I am a RN and i feel like this helped me gain better perspective on body image, issues, and positivity. I feel like my medical/nursing background and knowledge will always put me a heck lot of steps back towards body positivity, tolerance and respect but I do really appreciate this video and this insight to help me give better care that is focussed on patients as unique and specific to each and everyone. Stigma is a thing in the healthcare system and i will be forever learning on how I can be a better team player! Thank you to everyone involved in this one! God bless
Thank you. So glad it was helpful
You are such a wonderful and mindful person. We Love and support you, keep following your heart ABBEY SHARP ♥️ ♥️ ♥️
Thank you ❤️
Thank you so much for being open and being willing to redact your views and adjust. I'm so glad you are still in the conversation! We need to be encouraging more learning from mistakes instead of always just "cancelling" people. We all make mistakes
Thank you! ❤️
I feel sometimes people takes "politically correct" too serious, maybe because im from Mexico and we are more relaxed in that sense, but I feel you have the right to express yourself, I love your videos, please dont let other people silent your true opinion
Thank you for sharing, I'm glad you enjoy the videos
This is definitely an Anglo problem, I am from Puerto Rico and I have a hard time relating to all of this.
Thank you. Someone said my mind. I feel it's weird that because she is thin and white she can't be body positive. "We all have our insecurities and need to love our perfect imperfections" literally what my mother told me as a child before I even knew about the movement. And I'm black.
body positivity is people coming together and accepting body features they can't help, beauty marks, hip dips, skin conditions.
its not about weight, thats the HAES movement and the fat positivity movement
@draalttom yeah of course, i was just saying for people who perhaps didn't know the difference between the two movements :)
Not gonna lie, I've been pretty salty since you took the video down because there were a lot of problems (most of which you acknowledged) and it didn't seem like you were going to acknowledge them anytime soon. I'm glad that wasn't the case. It's really hard to acknowledge something like this, so kudos for putting yourself out there. Twice.
Thank you
As a thinner woman recovering from an ED(though honestly I’ve almost always been thinner), I feel like the movement has actually caused a lot of acceptable bullying of thin people. I have strangers at stores make off handed comments towards me scarily often, even health care “professionals” have literally made fun of me and it was humiliating. Idk how it’s ok to do that to a person with anorexia, a thin person in general, or anyone at all. Body positivity should be for everyone, not just for one side and not an excuse to swing the pendulum. Ive been overweight and I’ve never made fun of overweight people, I don’t comment on anyone else’s body, but for some reason this new culture feels they have some right to make comments on MY body. Idk how that’s right.
I do feel like some of this movement has become very toxic. 23:35 especially resonates with me as someone who has been both very overweight/borderline obese and underweight. I’m now in a lower healthy range and still get off handed remarks towards myself when I’m just minding my own business. Either way it’s hurtful, either way a thinner person should be able to say they’re body positive. Right now I struggle to say that I have an ED because I’m “healthy weight” but I also struggle to try being body positive- I have stretchy skin, stretch marks, scars, and I’m not happy with most things about my body but it’s like I don’t have permission to be in this movement because it’s now for a certain type of person. In the ED recovery community, body positivity used to be a big thing but I no longer feel welcome. I feel like including myself in that would be like throwing myself into a shark tank.
If I was you, Abbey, I'd stop feeling ashamed for what you are. Whatever you are.
I appreciate your integrity and professionalism, already did, but when facing a chance you handle yourself so well! Thank you for you content and knowledge sharing. ❤️
Thank you ❤️
Thanks for such an informative video, Abbey, lovely to see you and John working together. I guess I just think it's a bit of a shame when you’ve literally journeyed to the life-destroying private hell of an eating disorder and somehow managed to claw your way out the other side, endured the crippling anxiety and body changes accompanying recovery and are doing the work to find peace with your body, but we can't call ourselves body positive despite making good decisions for our bodies when the loudest voice in our head is telling us not to? Maybe we need a new term, I don't know. But that whole process to me sounds pretty body positive.
I understand. Thank you for sharing your perspective
I really love what you did with this video, it's a really hard topic. Like, I just did my own 33 minute monstronsity on this topic, and it's extremely hard to suss those things out and I think you did a great job giving space to different opinions here.
I often feel really frustrated with the way that Body Positivity has replaced Fat Liberation, Health at Every Size, and Intuitive Eating as an umbrella term.
I'm a fat activist, and I don't believe in intuitive eating.
I have lipedema. Some foods I eat cause inflammation which exacerbates my chronic condition and if I don't keep it under control, I will lose my ability to walk. For me, there are good and bad foods, not morally but physiologically. It makes me so angry when, like, slim dietitians will tell me that I'm the one promoting diet culture, I'm the one who shouldn't be in the body positivity movement. It doesn't make me happy to eat the way I eat. It doesn't feel good to me. It is hard every single day, but if I don't do it, I'm gonna lose my ability to walk.
And it makes me so so frustrated that the comment sections of these videos, and the responses I'm getting from my friends on my own videos are like "yes! This exactly! Body positivity is for everybody it's not an excuse to get really fat!" Like people really want an excuse to hate on Fat activists and HAES. Regardless of what you think body positivity should be, and what should be under that umbrella, fat activism (and activism specifically for other marginalized bodies) is extremely extremely important. More important than what any individual person is or isn't eating.
It's not just a "have a disclaimer" thing. It's also a "give space to fat activists and talk about thin privilege" thing, the way you did in this video, so thank you.
Where did the term “straight size” come from and what does it really mean?
I get that it means “thin” but why not use thin? I need a video on that. I don’t know why I feel some type of way about this, like why do we need a trendy name for everything where only the people in a specific group knows what it means?
I have been obese, overweight and normal weights. I only lost weight due to illness, and I was so shocked at how I still "felt" fat. If anything, it showed me that your sense of self is only as changeable as you make it, and sometimes self perception is the hardest thing to get into shape, because it can weigh you down far more than any transient or fluctuating adipose tissue.