I've studied narcisissm for many years ...this is the best explanation of why narcissists try to make you jealous, that I've come across. Absolutely true and clearly explained.
Oh my, THANK YOU Laura! I’m happy it seems to make sense. I actually uncover new ideas as I try to apply these models, it’s largely a discovery process: let’s list pros and cons and analyse. A number of these models are used in economics, engineering, decision making and psychology. And when we apply them to narcissists, we sometimes uncover interesting angles :-)
In my experience narcissists want to boast to you about what they are doing with their other supply that you are not included in, they want us to feel we are missing out on their great life. They ignore all our texts and e-mails while showing us that they are communicating with others but not us. They boast non-stop about their life without showing interest in our lives.
My ex did this for five years, it was like he had a conveyer belt of new female friends coming into his life. I realised several years in he wanted me to be jealous. In the end (after he amped it up and I refused to react) I just outright told him I didn’t want to be with someone who wanted to have so many emotional connections with other women. I’m not sure if it bothered him or not, he seemed indifferent and told me I sabotaged us and need to work on my jealousy … but I don’t care, I was more than ok with feeling jealous over such extreme lack of boundaries so now I feel back to normal again and like myself so much more. I’ll never enter this dynamic again.
So true but when you don't react and you leave them they will have a narcissistic injury... How dare we discard them! Who we think we are?! And in some case they are obsessed with the ones that get away and live their happy life away from them... And many of them they will try to harm the person who leaves them... Thx for your videos 💖
Exactly Mystic: they’ll use fake outrage ( th-cam.com/video/IEAMHKChKN8/w-d-xo.html ) or tantrum tactics ( th-cam.com/video/ym2qpMMJSDM/w-d-xo.html ) to bully us. And why not, if it works? And you’re right, unless they discard, they’ll seek revenge. And even when they discard, they might hoover if they don’t have new supply. And how can they hurt us? At least 5 ways: th-cam.com/video/jQXjmYiYLsk/w-d-xo.html Thank you for your kind comment! :-)
❤just went my first narcissist experience. How was the new supply and the X knew about me but I just found out about her. This is exactly what happened. It’s so weird that people can be so heartless.
Hi Frederik, I dated someone who my psychologist said he thought had narcissistic traits. My ex, the narc, didn’t have a moral compass. He thought that it was fine to keep talking to other women on a dating site where we had first met, even though we were in a relationship. He was testing my boundaries and I let him. I learnt a lot from that relationship and how there are people like this around. As you said Frederik, people are interchangeable for them, all they are looking for is supply. Very sad but true.
Hi Jennifer, interesting - and good sign your psychologist mentioned « having narcissistic traits », this is akin to the « multiple behaviours with frequency and intensity ». Yes, no moral compass eventually becomes an issue. Keeping options open is a sign there is no commitment, and without commitment, it isn’t much of a relationship :-/ Yes, these days it’s tougher to have boundaries, there’s a lot of BS out there to justify trampling other people’s boundaries. These are valuable (and painful) learning experiences. Hopefully we don’t have to repeat them too much to learn properly! And yes, sad - and we can regret their choice, and respect it.
This is spot on ! Exactly what I told myself when the narc told me “ I have to be honest with you ( hahahahah. Red flag right there, as a narc can never be honest )They don’t even know what that is . Yet, he told me he has a “friend”that comes to hang out with him at the beach on Sundays - I said BS to that! Then he escalated to post a photo with her in his story. I know he is pushing my boundaries and he DEFINITELY wants to extract a reaction from me. I Learnt a lot from my 18 year entanglement with a sociopath / narcissist, so this time I am not even waisting my time arguing and explaining why some things are wrong - I just simply said “ Go for it baby. I give you my blessings !” Then I proceeded to removed myself from the equation. Period !!!! The lessons are for me to learn and apply: The clarity is for me to see. The awareness is for my expansion . Give thanks ! Those are all gift!!!!! 🙌
I am trapped now in control of Malignant Narcissist. Just a week ago found what the HELL in going on?! I am suffering and crying, shamed and blamed meanwhile he is saying Love you. That is the 2nd year together. Now he withdraw sex for 3 month, just learned this is domination, power & punishment. He for a week provokes my jealousy (I new this is coming) and I was trapped today, saying WHY ARE YOU REACTING THIS WAY? Even if I was not! And now I understand he is an EVIL with NO soul, NO heart, with DAMAGED brain, who likes to see me suffer so much. I don’t know how to leave as he is really violent, at this stage he is not physically violent to me, but he physically hurt other people but is Hero at work with police, hero in town and I see he can hurt me. There is obvious mental abuse now, which I wish I can proof but…..
I’d suggest getting support: local therapist and doctor who have experience dealing with cluster b personality disorders. Get licensed people close by (NOT support groups, forums, or randos like me), each case is specific and you’d benefit from support, NOT from advice, as no one knows your situation better than you do.
The day I finally accepted my partner was ranking extremely high in narcissism and decided to leave happened when he tried to perform a TRIPLE TRIANGULATION. Yes!!! As it sounds, he wanted to spend New Year's Eve with his ex on his family house while I was out of town, and given my negative reaction, he justified by saying that his Mom and Granma didn't understand why I was so jealous if he (the ex) is like part of the family. I'll never know if that was truth or not, but my level of disappointment was so high that I lost interest right away. It was my wake-up moment!
So on point. Wish I could have gone back and stated my concerns and just left. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I let them get away with things that were so wrong. I was jealous and any person would have been but it wasn't jealousy it was mistrust and feeling not worth being in their life. I was angry and that was just me reacting to their bad, inappropriate behaviour. They gave nothing but complained about everything that I was and am. Why are they even in relationships they don't want monogamy and they don't want futures with just one person?
Thank you Brigitta! Yes, it's easier afterwards, but in the moment, we seldom have the toolkit and we're blindsided with wrong assumptions. Very valid point: jealousy and mistrust are not the same (note for future video). And recognising that some behaviour is inappropriate (in our eyes) simply means it doesn't work for us. Yesterday I took notes about this for a future video. Why wouldn't they just complain and take, if we're willing to give and apologise? Why are they in relationships? Good question. What do you think? What do they gain? :-)
This happened to me as well. We give them the benefit of the doubt because some situations are easily fixable and we’re confused as to why its happening. I also never knew how to express myself when something didn’t feel right. Like do i just end things or am i being insecure. Big internal question. Being vulnerable with them has backfired in the past so that doesn’t work. I’m not even the jealous type but i am too understanding. Maybe this relationship was a blessing in disguise. In the end, they lose out. They think they’re upgrading but they’ll never have the ability to feel a true connection with anyone including themselves. Want to be a selfish bitch. Cool.. back to the streets you go 👋
Omg this was my exact situation.. He discarded me for her even though he was saying he still loved me.. I blocked him after that and have been told he's putting up pictures of her now.. But I'm not biting.. He will do the same to her.. Thank you for this video ❤️
i never get jealous i just look at behavoir and if i like it or not . if i do"t i leave. thats how is life is stop playing the part of the victim and blaming people because your to weak to leave
Yes, once we can make sense of it, we can assess the probabilities of things improving. When we realise they are close to 0% and the only argument in favour of >0% is "because maybe", it's easier to get a grip and move on.
Weird thing in my case: there was a LOT of tringulation going on. The then "partner" used another to try to triangulate, but that 3rd party didn't seem any sort of threat to me for a very long time (I don't particularly get jealous: possibly a harmful lack of jealousy). That "partner" though also used me to triangulate their friend group without my knowledge (via imaginary friends based on me). As the 3rd party triangulation escalated, I did put the foot down and try to walk away. That didn't go down well (obviously), and became a whole level of mess I hadn't experienced before and wouldn't wish to again. It still ended in that sense, however I was still (even though I was ignoring all the games, thank god now I look back as it was extremely hard to stop myself reacting) triangulated against the friends, relentlessly (and possibly to the 3rd party who was now the "new" partner), for a very long period of time until those friends also walked away (with me not reacting, they cottoned on and actually heard me out). Even then the games (stalking and staring) continued for another while (and I could not understand that 3rd parties acceptance of this). Even years after it had died down, a chance encounter becomes something uncomfortable. The subtle "I'm here" gestures that most other observers don't notice bring back the memories of them turning up wherever you used to habituate, just to stare at you for hours. The old feelings of being watched wherever you go (it hasn't happened for a long time, but now those feelings are right back with you as though they never left, all because of that chance encounter). No matter what happens, it can be an extremely disturbing experience that fosters a deep sense of paranoia and guilt. For what? Who knows... They don't.
Thank you for uploading this video! I always wanted to know why he did this! I left him 8 days ago and the relief I feel is unbelievable ❤ now he can triangulate someone else!!
Wow, such amazing news! Yes, the relief is incredible, we can breathe again - and live again! Well done for that - not easy, and worth the reward. Yes, good luck to them with their stuff. We're better off without. Good to read you again and thanks for commenting :-)
I have a bf who's a narcissist and likes to pretend that he's just polyamorous, but he's always been so disrespectful about it, it's very apparent it's triangulation. Thank you so much for this play by play, it makes things a lot clearer.
Life hack: beware whom we share intimacy with. It costs us more than we think. It is not innocuous like brushing teeth. Remember, vampires must be invited into our homes - and they take more than we realise. Glad you found this helpful, and hope you work out something that works for you with people who work out for you :)
Wow what an eye opener! I knew there was something dodgy going on and my gut instincts were always screaming out to me but I was gaslit every time so he could keep on cheating on me and keeping me in the dark. How deceitful these people are! It must stem from such great insecurity of not being ok alone. It's such a calculating, exhausting, desperate way to live. If they could just find a healthy way to fill themselves up instead of wasting their life in this unhealthy, toxic way then so many lives wouldn't be ruined but of course they don't care about that otherwise they wouldn't be a narc. I must say, you're the only TH-camr I've found that demonstrated and explained it so clearly with diagrams, percentages and words. Thank you so much for clearing up the confusion I had in my head about a narc I was dealing with. I will definitely be watching more of your videos and have just subscribed. Keep on doing good work and opening our eyes. You're helping a lot of people.
Hi (hola?) Senorita! Thank you for the generous sharing of thoughts, and the very kind words! Yes, if they were not playing bizarre games, things would be different. However, it might just be a coping mechanism that traps them and prevents them ever coming clean. And yes, they'll do anything that helps them get what they want in the short term, and also makes building long term relationships impossible (I mention the leaky bucket in the latest live". You're welcome, really pleased you find this approach helpful. Yes, it is confusing, and doesn't have to be. Using tools borrowed from psychology, economics and engineering, we can get a clear picture. And yes, percentages and rational thinking really are our friends in grounding us, understanding what makes sense and doesn't, and framing things in a way that's more constructive (and less childish) than "well, maybe there's a thing". Thanks for subscribing! I hope you enjoy the other videos :-)
Happy to read you found this helpful, Patricia. Sad? Yes, and no. It's their choice and it works for them. We can respect and regret their choice. And make our choice, armed with knowledge and facts. Sadness is beautiful, it means we care about something (see this video: th-cam.com/video/vBrWIR62hTQ/w-d-xo.html or www.atlasofemotions.org). And best of luck to them - away from us! Thanks for your comment.
Incredibly insightful. Triangulation was something I felt emotionally, but now I see the rationale behind it, so it takes the sting out of the thing. Thanks so much for the knowledge you share. It’s a life-changing gift.
Thank you Martie! Yes, when we're caught in it, it's a nightmare, and when we put the pieces of the puzzle together, all seems to fall into place and make sense. Very happy to share and to see others find these ideas helpful too. Thanks for commenting - and for watching these videos :-)
Could you also elaborate on people triangulating with family members bordering emotional incest/enmeshment? That is so complicated to unravel because of family ties. But some people would even use their daughters to triangulate a partner and make them jealous. That is so weird.
That could simply be showing that another person (daughter) is massively more important than their partner. The main message is "you're not safe", especially if things are weird. Often, we can sense the intention. Being late can be just being late. But being late to spite someone can feel really different. Does that make sense?
And what do you think? Did I miss anything? What was your experience? Remember that triangulating doesn't require being physically unfaithful, merely grooming another option is triangulating. As always, thanks for watching and if you want to make sure you don't miss the next videos, remember to hit the notification bell, like and subscribe. And if you disliked the video, drop a comment to let me know why so I can improve for next time.
Getting caught can also be considered an advantage for the narcissist. We must remember that any attention, be it positive or negative is fuel for them. This video resonated with me and helped me understand why certain things happened in my situation.
Yes, indeed Juliana, getting caught allows them to play victim "you drove me into the arms of another" is a common refrain. I remember being told that. What did I do? I had one evening, out of 365, where I had a dinner after some training and that evening I was not available for a call. Allegedly, that was enough to break the relationship. Looking back, it's ridiculous, and yet, on the moment, I believed it :-/ Happy this resonated and you found it helpful, thanks for commenting - and for watching on the release! Perhaps I'll do a live premier for one of the next videos :-)
@@fribersson I would love to watch a live video from you. Unfortunately I missed the last one, but I hope to catch the next one. I am sorry that you went through something like that. I do believe being involved with a narcissist ends up benefiting us in the end. It shakes us to our core and catapults us into an awakening about ourselves and our worth. Had it not been for my ex narcissist, I wouldn’t have know what I know now, and I wouldn’t have found you and your channel, which would have been a real shame. Keep up the good work. ♥️
@@charliesmith_ I don’t think they get bored. I think they grow tired. Even an Olympic sprinter can only go 100% for a short time. They grow resentful of the effort. They also get tired maintaining the web of lies and inflated claims of victory or victimhood. Moreover, the narcissist cannot process that a target may be good and bad in varying degrees. As they see the parts of the target that don’t align perfectly with what they want the target to be, for them, it’s like they see the target’s “mask” crack and the target becomes a “bad” person. This is a disorder of paradox, irony, smoke, and mirrors.
Brilliant explanation, very well structured and logical. From my personal experience, I noticed overt triangulation can also become covert after the narcissist is confronted about the situation to prevent you from leaving (phone in silence, changing the 3rd. party contact name, etc.) But then, for some reason, it became overt again.... Now I get that he needed to be so 'transparent' with me because he was looking for the overt triangulation benefits as well. Wow!!! Thank you Frederik for making this so clear to me, it really helped me to deal with cognitive dissonance.
Thank you, especially for clarifying why they bother to 'display' their mischief deliberately when it would be quite unnecessary. I wouldn't have noticed their mischief in the first place.
You're welcome! Yes, it can be counterintuitive, if we assume they operate like us. But when we observe their benefits, it makes far more sense. A helpful model is: "observe what the person gets and assume maybe that's what they want." Using this model, we can do deep work in changing patterns, if people want to change - or understand that, perhaps, they don't want to change...
Can I let you know again how much I appreciate your thoughts and how they challenge my thinking? I would never have realized parts of me need more attention unless they crashed up against another perspective. A kind man should be thanked…a wise kind man should be doubly honored Thank you for helping me grow and think.
That is so kind Anonymously Anonymous, thank you. And it really takes two people: so many people shut down when they encounter another perspective, or hallucinate intentions that discredit the other person, few people take the time to think about it, adopt what they find helpful - and perhaps take it as coming from "someone just sharing what helped them". And comments such as yours further motivate and encourage me to produce more. Thank you for taking the time to write :-)
The person I am dating, I work with. (sigh, I know.) Since the beginning of our relationship(almost a year now), he has been using another employee that has a crush on him to make me jealous. He won’t blatantly flirt with her but he will be nice to her( he typically stonewalls people), call her from across the room, be playful and make jokes with her. He rarely acts this way with anyone. What bothers me about it is that he is aware that she likes him, has admitted that he got the impression she was trying to hit on him and he knows that her behavior bothers me. She will talk to him excessively, spend excessive amounts of time around him, try to get his attention while I’m talking to him, etc. I have brought it up multiple times but he said I’m overreacting, sometimes defends her and he encourages the behavior because he knows she feeds on the attention he gives her. Of course, the girl who has a crush on him loves the attention from him so she plays into it. She is actually a close friend of my family’s believe it or not. It’s really weird and uncomfortable having to pretend like I’m not upset about it when it happens. I am afraid to break up with him because I am afraid that he(and probably she) will start really laying it on thick when I am around and doing subtle things or acting like best friends or something, (and nobody else at work knows about these situations so I am the only one who will notice) and will be silently driven insane like what has been happening for months now. It causes me so much stress it is triggering to think about even going to work. Because I will inevitably pass that person in the hall and have to pretend to be cordial when really I want to punch her in the stomach.
It's not always, that the narcissist wants to make you jealous, but use triangulation to undermine you as an example when someone is visiting you and your narc, you start a conversation and the narc steps in saying no that was not true, and he makes a different story, you say nothing and you start the conversation again and he stepped again in you're story telling that it's what no exactly what she says, you forget to tell ...so your conversation be undermined and he takes the conversation over, so you shut up. You are feeling like a loser, When there is someone and the narc is with you go away, let him smile and take over the conversation, when he wants to go with someone else, you are good rid of him., walking to a happy life without him
the main benefit to being authentic people and connecting authentic ways is that connection with other healthy people gets our needs met, we feel nourished, together, closer, loved, seen, heard, and hopefully on somelevel the other person too and we draw closer if they are healthy people. It fufils a need for expresion as well. ........... as a trauma survivor i was in what i call survival responses due to being raised by an abusive person, and i was doing a whole lot of fawning that didn't feel like i was connecting to people. My self-expression and the fun of connection was difficult to access due to being in this survival response from a hardcore abuser. I had to do a whole of healing and recovery and getting sober , and my recovery actually started, when i was able to start setting boundaries and not continue to allow myself to be pushed around, or scapegoated! The authentic me or true self started to emerge from that as i gave myself some protection and safety. i guess people and me are authentic because thats what connection is an authentic joyful exchange of true and honest emotion that helps us feel the togetherness and closeness of humanity .......
I really like how you worded that Francisco, so are you right: one of the biggest benefits of getting rid of toxic people, is that we make space for healthy people - and avoid polluting them by proxy! And life with healthy people is so much nicer, and more meaningful. And yes, when we learn to fawn, it’s unsurprising we seek people who seek fawners. And once we heal, we change the world around us (and beyond). And once we can be (dare be) authentic, yes, we can establish meaningful connections. As you can see, fully agreed - and well written. Thank you for sharing!
@@fribersson yeah to recover that hurt inner child and become its loving parent and champion it as I emerge in the true self and allow those disenfranchised feelings that i had to supress for years to come out and grieve them safely. A whole process of becoming now authentic and integrating the survival self, learning healthy behaviours and practicing them and seeing I dont need to do things i needed to survive because they are no longer serving me! Thanks for the channel as well!
I was so relieved to get this video. Your Christmas videos from Thailand helped me so much. My BPD daughter left Christmas Day with my 9 year old granddaughter, and I have not had contact or have no idea how my granddaughter is. I got a text on Valentines from her saying she loves me and misses me (I was her primary caregiver for 5 years. What I hate about these toxic types is they make the beautiful profane. Your video today reinforces that my other two daughters and their families realize the situation because my deceased husband was a malignant Narcissist who stalked me for four grueling years. He’s been gone (dead) for 20 years, but his legacy lives on in his daughter. This history helps guide me now, but 25 years ago there weren’t people who even understood the treachery of this disease. He kidnapped my two daughters to Mexico and abandoned them for 2 days. Even then, the family court system put us through hell to make sure we weren’t lying. So going NO CONTACT with my daughter has worked in the past (she didn’t communicate for 8 months), but this time she took my granddaughter with her. Your strength of purpose and clarea,y sistema. Thsnk you so much. My eyes are too weak to edit this, so please forgive typos.Thank you❤️
I'm so pleased to read this Martie! These situations are so complex and tough. It's so important for us to move on, show ourselves kindness - and work towards having a peaceful heart: letting go of the past and being grateful for what we have so we can enjoy the future. So hard, perhaps the hardest thing to do in life, and perhaps the most important. Please do not worry about typos :) Rest your eyes. And thank you for your encouragement, it motivates me to create more and share ideas others may find helpful. Thank you!
@@fribersson i have read your kind reply over and over again. Validation from you and the importance of the work you do make it humbling to acknowledge how lonely it can be. Being discarded by a daughter to whom I gave every physical and emotional support at every step of her 37 years, really cuts deep. I’m certain she means it to, and that meanness has stilled my heart. There is evil in their behavior. I’m rising above but it is a slow and painful climb. Your support is priceless. Thank you so much for being there. The world gets curiouser and curiouser but also crazier. Good time to rise above. Thanks
@Martie McBride, I received so much unexpected support from my teachers in Russia and Kazakhstan, unconditional love and acceptance as I was, and respect. I wish for others to experience the same (always possible to fly to Kazakhstan and meet them, sometimes they travel to Dubai too). In the meantime, I share what I can - we're all in the same boat. Yes, alienation from family members hurts so much - and we can lament it and grow. Few have the strength to. And, maybe, we all deserve to, if we manage. This are not small challenges, the betrayal of a child, a loved one, choosing to heal. Few manage, they are truly heroes and they do make the world a much better place. We underestimate how important our wellbeing is. You mention having given every physical and emotional support for 37 years. Maybe this is a sign it's time that you give it to... yourself now. Maybe that is a beautiful lesson? Assuming you're not already doing it (who is?), to love ourselves as we try to love others. And, maybe, if we manage, we'll then be able to truly love others, not from a place of need, but a place of peace and acceptance and respect. Take care Martie!
Thank you. I like how you draw everything back to function. This addresses triangulation where the 3rd party is lifted up/exalted very well. A toxic person may alternatively triangulate in a negative manner- to trigger the target to defend the toxic person against the 3rd party, demonizing them. An example is the story of the “crazy ex” who was actually the most recently discarded target of narcissistic abuse. The function is similar. They get the effort of the 3rd party to dispel false accusations. They discredit the 3rd party (their last target). Most importantly, they create loyalty and alliance with the new supply, growing the bond with a common cause. This works particularly well on “helpers” and “white knights”, and others who find it validating to champion victims. The answer is the same. Don’t engage with people who don’t want to treat you well. If you’re stuck for legal reasons, approach them as you would a toddler. This is their developmental state. Pay attention to their actions, not the words, stay alert, insist on accountability, consistently and dispassionately enforce boundaries, and give no energies directly to the toxic person in response to their toxic treatment. Way easier said than done. Any more information as to how to make it easier to do those things and maintain those mindsets would be incredibly useful… especially enforcing boundaries in a way that doesn’t give the narcissist supply or provoke them to further toxic behavior. Again thank you for the well-considered content.
This is really interesting, I hadn't thought about the "negative triangulation", which is indeed similar, and does have some nuances. Perhaps, for instance, they might tell us their ex is crazy, while at the same time telling the ex that we're difficult. That wouldn't surprise me. Double speak... Thank you for the suggestions, I'll ponder that and see if I have anything relevant to suggest. And thank you for your comments, I always appreciate them!
@@fribersson yes, toxic people waste no effort. If they can get the extra juice by playing both sides, they will. One thing to be very grateful for about narcissistically toxic people is the predictability of their behavior patterns. For those stuck dealing with narcissistic people long-term, this can be a huge blessing once the target understands the principles associated with the pattern. I feel like that is the education you’re supporting here. Good job and thanks.
@@eponymoususer8923 Yes, indeed, once we see the pattern, all else falls into place and we stop wondering what we are doing wrong or what we could do differently. They really are cookie cutter people, no real agency, really just like unpleasant NPCs in a video game. Once we realise someone is an NPC, there's no point talking with them, because their brain simply rejects any nuance. There actually is a test to see if people are NPCs, it's rather funny to do, though unpleasant for some when they realise they're acting just like NPCs / narcissists 😬 And yes, this is what I'm striving to do, show and expose the patterns so people have the tools to navigate these situations and stay clear. No "I will tell you what to think" but rather "let me share what helped me see more clearly, perhaps you'll find some of this relevant".
@@fribersson I see their efforts as attention, power and control as a function of supply. They are not seeking attention so much as the underlying supply. Being lazy and self entitled, they will use positive and negative attention in unison to gain the attention (positive or negative) and, thus, the underlying supply. My narcissist obtained just as much supply by turning my kids against me as she did positive attention from them.
Yes, good point. I see it a bit liking "kicking the ant hill": "I'm bored, I want a thing, I'll do a thing." A bit like Berne's "let's you and him fight." Tension is exciting for them and desirable. Consequences? Be damned. The more I think of it, the more I think of energy vampires and feel that vampires are an accurate description.
😮😮😮😮😮😮 omg! 😅 I couldn’t understand why he was staging things. I hid my jealousy at first and he was very uncomfortable. I had a feeling he wasn’t just worried about getting caught.
I've seen where they actually bring in more than just 1 other person. They were actually working on 4-5 with 1 or 2 as their main supply. And would rotate thru. Have mult people jealous and upset.
Sooner or later they start thinking back to how it started (when they are unhappy and giving less attention) You can never trust somebody that started from cheating. If they did it once they will do it again.
There are exceptions. However, they must have a very, very good reason to not cheat again, i.e. a selfish reason, as opposed to “I enjoyed it, sorry it hurt you.” In other words, that is incredibly rare.
My former best friend would always triangulate me with her love interests AND mine. She’d tell her dudes she couldn’t spend as much time with them because I was jealous (a complete lie), then when she would meet my love interests, she’d get their numbers and emails behind my back and would give them “tips” on how to deal with me. She acted like she was the Me Whisperer and that she needed to control my love life, not me. If I wanted to break up with someone, she always took their side and continued to talk to them despite how uncomfortable it made me
Reframe that as a choice: you are choosing to not leave. So you are choosing more of the same. Choices are not easy, but except breathing, everything in life is a choice. We simply face consequences.
My narcissistic ex continues to communicate with me, sending pictures of his new supplies and asking for my opinion. Recently, he discarded the person he left me for in favor of yet another new supply. He even sent me screenshots of what he wrote to the new supply about the previous one. I wonder if either of them knows about me or this ongoing communication. I’m not sure, but I don’t think they do.
I just got out of a relationship with a man like this on top of ghosting lies cheating but he always talked about his ex or out of know where mentioned he was seeing someone else in the past in the beginning of the relationship like why mention it out the blue and he always asked me after am I crying?! They are sadistic
You described my toxic ex 💯 snd he never realized that he is toxic and last time I didn’t listen to his manipulating words when you feel that I’m guilty. You already explained to me but I believed to him and gave a chance. He is still texting me and trying to manipulate me , I blocked him but still finding the way to text me :(
So sorry to read that Sayora. No, these people believe they are normal and the rest of the world is a problem. Believing people, giving them a second change is based on assumptions about others. We need to have as an option that the person might be crazy, mentally ill. Without that assumption, we're blind sided. Have you tried grey rock? I mention that towards the end of my live Q&A and will post another video soon. Remember to not react or be triggered, that's what they want :-/
Yes, the phenomenon of triangulation is not just a question of having three different persons “involved “ in the same circumstances or relationship, but simply an individual approach of all of a three :) Everyone’s responsible for his own actions, thoughts, emotions, illusions. Love this lucid and very simple & logical analysis as it’s realistic. What will anyone potentially do in such a situation is just an individual matter. If a narcissist creates his illusionary nets, fake relations, grabbing the pieces of reality in an “improper “, “unacceptable “ way, trying to use and abuse others, isn’t he doing it for his own self?! Isn’t his behaviour just an effect of mirroring his own self? Maybe he could be able to see himself better in reflection of his own actions towards others? It would be just nice. Then we wouldn’t have a “problem “ of triangulation :) But the problem exists, indeed. As the narcissist can’t see himself, but through others! So, there’s no responsibility or any questionnaire in him. Others are those who create himself, so they “are those to be responsible “ ! What a careless lifestyle :) One thing is certain: we can choose either we are part of fake theatrical game or not. Having in mind that fact, we are indeed responsible for our choice. Would it be logical and acceptable for anyone to be treated as an object who’s about to be used, abused and drained as a source of supply of some majesty called narcissist? Would anyone enjoy being manipulated, abused or invalidated? I guess not. So, is there any problem to simply reject a call to participate some absurd pointless game? I don’t see it. If you feel uncomfortable in shoes you’ve just bought, you may return them, or keep walking until the pain warns you of possibility to take them off. The same with the narcissist. You can reject or accept his “Game of thrones”. I already did. Said “goodbye “ to his majesty, as don’t find myself in a role of a servant at all :) Just continued to live freely, surrounding myself with real tangible people. Once more, impressive analysis, convincing and pretty practical. Enjoyed. Love it 😊
Interesting comment Dragana, thank you. I love the shoe metaphor: if they don't fit, return them. Or stop wearing them. The issue I see often is the assumption that "maybe something explains", the hope something might change, the reluctance to... stop wearing those shoes. Food for thought for another video, thank you! And really pleased you enjoyed this :-)
Brilliant, happy to read that. It's amazing how much of a difference it can make. And clarity of mind is SO important - that's one reason why they try to pollute our minds so much, it makes us so vulnerable!
When i realized they do all this so you dont move on n stay focused on them while they do whatever i left and dont care i realized whag was happening when she moved in woth my mom my mom is also a narc and she tried to turn my family against me i could care less and she got enraged threatened me with court still dont care lol most of my famaily cut her off when they realised what she was they infact taught me what a narc was i didnt know just knew she was sick only my mom and a few others support her but i have grew so much from all this
@@fribersson Been with one too many narcissists- Unfortunately as a result, I have spend a lot of energy speculating, if anyone cares for being "good" and treat each other with true respect.. or if it is like a rare kind of human who is like that.. and who is actually sincere. And truely wants a good realtionship without games, selfish intentions and microcuts of all sorts. What are your thoughts on that, I dare to ask.
Roughly 10% of people are ultra toxic. Another 10% pretty toxic. And most people are just hurt, confused and doing their best. With the right tools, we can snip toxicity in the bud. If more people did therapy, it would be better - and it is possible to encourage people to improve. Not easy to word it right, and possible. That also requires unlearning games and recognising toxicity. Part of what I try to share is ways to recognise toxicity any of us can exhibit, so we can do less - and so we can identify the people who don't want to do less. If that makes sense?
@@fribersson Thank you. Yes, that makes sense. Good to have a percentage on it. It is hard to accept that there are toxic people who really dont want to work on themselves, because what they do, works for them somehow.
My ex Narc & her new rebound has now joined thee same gym as me…..I ignore them whole hardly…..I dnt feed into her ego…….What’s her next move also I changed the time I hit the gym now..
So what reaction does he have if you tell him you’re not dealing with other women any more and break up with them? I gave him the jealousy he wanted, but walked away. Did he still win?
Hm, interesting, I didn't think of that. Do you find this model works in that situation too? It seems to me it might, and I might be missing something, or there might be some specifics that are different?
@@fribersson yes. This is because she gets supply in multiple ways. First, she derives supply from their admiration of her. Second, she derives supply from seeing them devaluing me. Third, she derives supply from observing my distress at having them choose her and not me. The bonus is that they do her devaluing and discarding for her thereby giving her plausible deniability.
Interesting analysis, when listed like this, it seems to make so much sense. She possibly also enjoys the knowledge that she got them to destroy the relationship from the inside. Isn't the biggest satisfaction of a dictatorship when the children turn in their own family? This goes against our deepest values and choosing someone else over our own DNA isn't a small thing. And perhaps the depth of this DNA thing is a reason it's so hard to come to terms with the fact that some parents are toxic?
I typically alternate between men and women in the thumbnails. I think I looked for the same photo but with the sexes reversed and couldn't find one. Not sure why that's upsetting, as I don't do any of the "dumping on 50% of humans" BS?
I've studied narcisissm for many years ...this is the best explanation of why narcissists try to make you jealous, that I've come across. Absolutely true and clearly explained.
Oh my, THANK YOU Laura! I’m happy it seems to make sense. I actually uncover new ideas as I try to apply these models, it’s largely a discovery process: let’s list pros and cons and analyse. A number of these models are used in economics, engineering, decision making and psychology. And when we apply them to narcissists, we sometimes uncover interesting angles :-)
In my experience narcissists want to boast to you about what they are doing with their other supply that you are not included in, they want us to feel we are missing out on their great life. They ignore all our texts and e-mails while showing us that they are communicating with others but not us. They boast non-stop about their life without showing interest in our lives.
They need to make you jealous because they want you to feel upset 😂 it validates thier own bs
My ex did this for five years, it was like he had a conveyer belt of new female friends coming into his life. I realised several years in he wanted me to be jealous. In the end (after he amped it up and I refused to react) I just outright told him I didn’t want to be with someone who wanted to have so many emotional connections with other women. I’m not sure if it bothered him or not, he seemed indifferent and told me I sabotaged us and need to work on my jealousy … but I don’t care, I was more than ok with feeling jealous over such extreme lack of boundaries so now I feel back to normal again and like myself so much more. I’ll never enter this dynamic again.
So true but when you don't react and you leave them they will have a narcissistic injury... How dare we discard them! Who we think we are?! And in some case they are obsessed with the ones that get away and live their happy life away from them... And many of them they will try to harm the person who leaves them...
Thx for your videos 💖
Exactly Mystic: they’ll use fake outrage ( th-cam.com/video/IEAMHKChKN8/w-d-xo.html ) or tantrum tactics ( th-cam.com/video/ym2qpMMJSDM/w-d-xo.html ) to bully us. And why not, if it works? And you’re right, unless they discard, they’ll seek revenge. And even when they discard, they might hoover if they don’t have new supply.
And how can they hurt us? At least 5 ways: th-cam.com/video/jQXjmYiYLsk/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for your kind comment! :-)
❤just went my first narcissist experience. How was the new supply and the X knew about me but I just found out about her. This is exactly what happened. It’s so weird that people can be so heartless.
Hi Frederik, I dated someone who my psychologist said he thought had narcissistic traits.
My ex, the narc, didn’t have a moral compass.
He thought that it was fine to keep talking to other women on a dating site where we had first met, even though we were in a relationship.
He was testing my boundaries and I let him.
I learnt a lot from that relationship and how there are people like this around.
As you said Frederik, people are interchangeable for them, all they are looking for is supply.
Very sad but true.
Hi Jennifer, interesting - and good sign your psychologist mentioned « having narcissistic traits », this is akin to the « multiple behaviours with frequency and intensity ». Yes, no moral compass eventually becomes an issue. Keeping options open is a sign there is no commitment, and without commitment, it isn’t much of a relationship :-/ Yes, these days it’s tougher to have boundaries, there’s a lot of BS out there to justify trampling other people’s boundaries. These are valuable (and painful) learning experiences. Hopefully we don’t have to repeat them too much to learn properly! And yes, sad - and we can regret their choice, and respect it.
This is spot on !
Exactly what I told myself when the narc told me “ I have to be honest with you ( hahahahah. Red flag right there, as a narc can never be honest )They don’t even know what that is . Yet, he told me he has a “friend”that comes to hang out with him at the beach on Sundays - I said BS to that! Then he escalated to post a photo with her in his story. I know he is pushing my boundaries and he DEFINITELY wants to extract a reaction from me.
I Learnt a lot from my 18 year entanglement with a sociopath / narcissist, so this time I am not even waisting my time arguing and explaining why some things are wrong - I just simply said “ Go for it baby. I give you my blessings !” Then I proceeded to removed myself from the equation. Period !!!!
The lessons are for me to learn and apply:
The clarity is for me to see. The awareness is for my expansion . Give thanks ! Those are all gift!!!!! 🙌
I am trapped now in control of Malignant Narcissist. Just a week ago found what the HELL in going on?! I am suffering and crying, shamed and blamed meanwhile he is saying Love you. That is the 2nd year together. Now he withdraw sex for 3 month, just learned this is domination, power & punishment. He for a week provokes my jealousy (I new this is coming) and I was trapped today, saying WHY ARE YOU REACTING THIS WAY? Even if I was not! And now I understand he is an EVIL with NO soul, NO heart, with DAMAGED brain, who likes to see me suffer so much. I don’t know how to leave as he is really violent, at this stage he is not physically violent to me, but he physically hurt other people but is Hero at work with police, hero in town and I see he can hurt me. There is obvious mental abuse now, which I wish I can proof but…..
I’d suggest getting support: local therapist and doctor who have experience dealing with cluster b personality disorders. Get licensed people close by (NOT support groups, forums, or randos like me), each case is specific and you’d benefit from support, NOT from advice, as no one knows your situation better than you do.
I’m with malignant narcissist too :(
The day I finally accepted my partner was ranking extremely high in narcissism and decided to leave happened when he tried to perform a TRIPLE TRIANGULATION. Yes!!! As it sounds, he wanted to spend New Year's Eve with his ex on his family house while I was out of town, and given my negative reaction, he justified by saying that his Mom and Granma didn't understand why I was so jealous if he (the ex) is like part of the family. I'll never know if that was truth or not, but my level of disappointment was so high that I lost interest right away. It was my wake-up moment!
Triple? That's next level. Yes, these can be wakeup moments! And even if not true, what a mess!
So on point. Wish I could have gone back and stated my concerns and just left. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I let them get away with things that were so wrong. I was jealous and any person would have been but it wasn't jealousy it was mistrust and feeling not worth being in their life. I was angry and that was just me reacting to their bad, inappropriate behaviour. They gave nothing but complained about everything that I was and am. Why are they even in relationships they don't want monogamy and they don't want futures with just one person?
Thank you Brigitta! Yes, it's easier afterwards, but in the moment, we seldom have the toolkit and we're blindsided with wrong assumptions. Very valid point: jealousy and mistrust are not the same (note for future video). And recognising that some behaviour is inappropriate (in our eyes) simply means it doesn't work for us.
Yesterday I took notes about this for a future video.
Why wouldn't they just complain and take, if we're willing to give and apologise?
Why are they in relationships? Good question. What do you think? What do they gain? :-)
This happened to me as well. We give them the benefit of the doubt because some situations are easily fixable and we’re confused as to why its happening.
I also never knew how to express myself when something didn’t feel right. Like do i just end things or am i being insecure. Big internal question. Being vulnerable with them has backfired in the past so that doesn’t work.
I’m not even the jealous type but i am too understanding. Maybe this relationship was a blessing in disguise.
In the end, they lose out. They think they’re upgrading but they’ll never have the ability to feel a true connection with anyone including themselves. Want to be a selfish bitch. Cool.. back to the streets you go 👋
Triangulation is basically another form of gaslighting, especially when the other person doesn't exist.
So true! And they do sometimes invent people...
Omg this was my exact situation.. He discarded me for her even though he was saying he still loved me.. I blocked him after that and have been told he's putting up pictures of her now.. But I'm not biting.. He will do the same to her.. Thank you for this video ❤️
i never get jealous i just look at behavoir and if i like it or not . if i do"t i leave. thats how is life is stop playing the part of the victim and blaming people because your to weak to leave
A potential disadvantage/reason against the narc-They are unhappy people.😢. These supply dynamics wont change that.
So true, so crappy. Once I figure it I’m out.
Yes, once we can make sense of it, we can assess the probabilities of things improving. When we realise they are close to 0% and the only argument in favour of >0% is "because maybe", it's easier to get a grip and move on.
Weird thing in my case: there was a LOT of tringulation going on.
The then "partner" used another to try to triangulate, but that 3rd party didn't seem any sort of threat to me for a very long time (I don't particularly get jealous: possibly a harmful lack of jealousy). That "partner" though also used me to triangulate their friend group without my knowledge (via imaginary friends based on me).
As the 3rd party triangulation escalated, I did put the foot down and try to walk away. That didn't go down well (obviously), and became a whole level of mess I hadn't experienced before and wouldn't wish to again. It still ended in that sense, however I was still (even though I was ignoring all the games, thank god now I look back as it was extremely hard to stop myself reacting) triangulated against the friends, relentlessly (and possibly to the 3rd party who was now the "new" partner), for a very long period of time until those friends also walked away (with me not reacting, they cottoned on and actually heard me out). Even then the games (stalking and staring) continued for another while (and I could not understand that 3rd parties acceptance of this).
Even years after it had died down, a chance encounter becomes something uncomfortable. The subtle "I'm here" gestures that most other observers don't notice bring back the memories of them turning up wherever you used to habituate, just to stare at you for hours. The old feelings of being watched wherever you go (it hasn't happened for a long time, but now those feelings are right back with you as though they never left, all because of that chance encounter).
No matter what happens, it can be an extremely disturbing experience that fosters a deep sense of paranoia and guilt. For what? Who knows... They don't.
Thank you for uploading this video! I always wanted to know why he did this! I left him 8 days ago and the relief I feel is unbelievable ❤ now he can triangulate someone else!!
Wow, such amazing news! Yes, the relief is incredible, we can breathe again - and live again! Well done for that - not easy, and worth the reward. Yes, good luck to them with their stuff. We're better off without. Good to read you again and thanks for commenting :-)
I have a bf who's a narcissist and likes to pretend that he's just polyamorous, but he's always been so disrespectful about it, it's very apparent it's triangulation. Thank you so much for this play by play, it makes things a lot clearer.
Life hack: beware whom we share intimacy with. It costs us more than we think. It is not innocuous like brushing teeth. Remember, vampires must be invited into our homes - and they take more than we realise. Glad you found this helpful, and hope you work out something that works for you with people who work out for you :)
Wow what an eye opener! I knew there was something dodgy going on and my gut instincts were always screaming out to me but I was gaslit every time so he could keep on cheating on me and keeping me in the dark. How deceitful these people are! It must stem from such great insecurity of not being ok alone. It's such a calculating, exhausting, desperate way to live. If they could just find a healthy way to fill themselves up instead of wasting their life in this unhealthy, toxic way then so many lives wouldn't be ruined but of course they don't care about that otherwise they wouldn't be a narc.
I must say, you're the only TH-camr I've found that demonstrated and explained it so clearly with diagrams, percentages and words. Thank you so much for clearing up the confusion I had in my head about a narc I was dealing with. I will definitely be watching more of your videos and have just subscribed. Keep on doing good work and opening our eyes. You're helping a lot of people.
Hi (hola?) Senorita! Thank you for the generous sharing of thoughts, and the very kind words! Yes, if they were not playing bizarre games, things would be different. However, it might just be a coping mechanism that traps them and prevents them ever coming clean. And yes, they'll do anything that helps them get what they want in the short term, and also makes building long term relationships impossible (I mention the leaky bucket in the latest live".
You're welcome, really pleased you find this approach helpful. Yes, it is confusing, and doesn't have to be. Using tools borrowed from psychology, economics and engineering, we can get a clear picture. And yes, percentages and rational thinking really are our friends in grounding us, understanding what makes sense and doesn't, and framing things in a way that's more constructive (and less childish) than "well, maybe there's a thing".
Thanks for subscribing! I hope you enjoy the other videos :-)
You explained this like anybody before I really understand their sick mind now it’s really sad to know this behavior is a cycle that never ends.
Happy to read you found this helpful, Patricia. Sad? Yes, and no. It's their choice and it works for them. We can respect and regret their choice. And make our choice, armed with knowledge and facts. Sadness is beautiful, it means we care about something (see this video: th-cam.com/video/vBrWIR62hTQ/w-d-xo.html or www.atlasofemotions.org). And best of luck to them - away from us! Thanks for your comment.
Triangulated me with another narc.
Incredibly insightful. Triangulation was something I felt emotionally, but now I see the rationale behind it, so it takes the sting out of the thing. Thanks so much for the knowledge you share. It’s a life-changing gift.
Thank you Martie! Yes, when we're caught in it, it's a nightmare, and when we put the pieces of the puzzle together, all seems to fall into place and make sense. Very happy to share and to see others find these ideas helpful too. Thanks for commenting - and for watching these videos :-)
Could you also elaborate on people triangulating with family members bordering emotional incest/enmeshment? That is so complicated to unravel because of family ties. But some people would even use their daughters to triangulate a partner and make them jealous. That is so weird.
That could simply be showing that another person (daughter) is massively more important than their partner. The main message is "you're not safe", especially if things are weird. Often, we can sense the intention. Being late can be just being late. But being late to spite someone can feel really different. Does that make sense?
And what do you think? Did I miss anything? What was your experience? Remember that triangulating doesn't require being physically unfaithful, merely grooming another option is triangulating. As always, thanks for watching and if you want to make sure you don't miss the next videos, remember to hit the notification bell, like and subscribe. And if you disliked the video, drop a comment to let me know why so I can improve for next time.
Getting caught can also be considered an advantage for the narcissist. We must remember that any attention, be it positive or negative is fuel for them. This video resonated with me and helped me understand why certain things happened in my situation.
Yes, it's a bit of a catch 22, they enjoy the fight, they enjoy making the situation toxic. Failure isn't a flaw, its their goal :-/
Yes, indeed Juliana, getting caught allows them to play victim "you drove me into the arms of another" is a common refrain. I remember being told that. What did I do? I had one evening, out of 365, where I had a dinner after some training and that evening I was not available for a call. Allegedly, that was enough to break the relationship. Looking back, it's ridiculous, and yet, on the moment, I believed it :-/
Happy this resonated and you found it helpful, thanks for commenting - and for watching on the release! Perhaps I'll do a live premier for one of the next videos :-)
@@fribersson I would love to watch a live video from you. Unfortunately I missed the last one, but I hope to catch the next one.
I am sorry that you went through something like that. I do believe being involved with a narcissist ends up benefiting us in the end. It shakes us to our core and catapults us into an awakening about ourselves and our worth. Had it not been for my ex narcissist, I wouldn’t have know what I know now, and I wouldn’t have found you and your channel, which would have been a real shame. Keep up the good work. ♥️
@@charliesmith_ I don’t think they get bored. I think they grow tired. Even an Olympic sprinter can only go 100% for a short time. They grow resentful of the effort. They also get tired maintaining the web of lies and inflated claims of victory or victimhood.
Moreover, the narcissist cannot process that a target may be good and bad in varying degrees. As they see the parts of the target that don’t align perfectly with what they want the target to be, for them, it’s like they see the target’s “mask” crack and the target becomes a “bad” person.
This is a disorder of paradox, irony, smoke, and mirrors.
Brilliant explanation, very well structured and logical. From my personal experience, I noticed overt triangulation can also become covert after the narcissist is confronted about the situation to prevent you from leaving (phone in silence, changing the 3rd. party contact name, etc.) But then, for some reason, it became overt again.... Now I get that he needed to be so 'transparent' with me because he was looking for the overt triangulation benefits as well. Wow!!! Thank you Frederik for making this so clear to me, it really helped me to deal with cognitive dissonance.
Thanks for your kind words! Yes, often the point is to test the limits, back off when gone to far, and try again. Push and pull.
This is brilliant.Very helpful. Thank you!
Interesting concept but I’m not competing against anyone..
Thank you, especially for clarifying why they bother to 'display' their mischief deliberately when it would be quite unnecessary. I wouldn't have noticed their mischief in the first place.
You're welcome! Yes, it can be counterintuitive, if we assume they operate like us. But when we observe their benefits, it makes far more sense. A helpful model is: "observe what the person gets and assume maybe that's what they want." Using this model, we can do deep work in changing patterns, if people want to change - or understand that, perhaps, they don't want to change...
Can I let you know again how much I appreciate your thoughts and how they challenge my thinking? I would never have realized parts of me need more attention unless they crashed up against another perspective. A kind man should be thanked…a wise kind man should be doubly honored
Thank you for helping me grow and think.
That is so kind Anonymously Anonymous, thank you. And it really takes two people: so many people shut down when they encounter another perspective, or hallucinate intentions that discredit the other person, few people take the time to think about it, adopt what they find helpful - and perhaps take it as coming from "someone just sharing what helped them". And comments such as yours further motivate and encourage me to produce more. Thank you for taking the time to write :-)
I echo this sentiment. The analysis is astute, thoughtful and well reasoned.
Thank you so much Sleeper! Really happy people are finding this approach helpful!
The person I am dating, I work with. (sigh, I know.) Since the beginning of our relationship(almost a year now), he has been using another employee that has a crush on him to make me jealous.
He won’t blatantly flirt with her but he will be nice to her( he typically stonewalls people), call her from across the room, be playful and make jokes with her. He rarely acts this way with anyone. What bothers me about it is that he is aware that she likes him, has admitted that he got the impression she was trying to hit on him and he knows that her behavior bothers me. She will talk to him excessively, spend excessive amounts of time around him, try to get his attention while I’m talking to him, etc.
I have brought it up multiple times but he said I’m overreacting, sometimes defends her and he encourages the behavior because he knows she feeds on the attention he gives her.
Of course, the girl who has a crush on him loves the attention from him so she plays into it. She is actually a close friend of my family’s believe it or not.
It’s really weird and uncomfortable having to pretend like I’m not upset about it when it happens.
I am afraid to break up with him because I am afraid that he(and probably she) will start really laying it on thick when I am around and doing subtle things or acting like best friends or something, (and nobody else at work knows about these situations so I am the only one who will notice) and will be silently driven insane like what has been happening for months now.
It causes me so much stress it is triggering to think about even going to work. Because I will inevitably pass that person in the hall and have to pretend to be cordial when really I want to punch her in the stomach.
My mother. She is divisive. As you say triangulate. So I moved a few hours away. Thank you for the clarity.
It's not always, that the narcissist wants to make you jealous, but use triangulation to undermine you as an example when someone is visiting you and your narc, you start a conversation and the narc steps in saying no that was not true, and he makes a different story, you say nothing and you start the conversation again and he stepped again in you're story telling that it's what no exactly what she says, you forget to tell ...so your conversation be undermined and he takes the conversation over, so you shut up.
You are feeling like a loser,
When there is someone and the narc is with you go away, let him smile and take over the conversation, when he wants to go with someone else, you are good rid of him., walking to a happy life without him
the main benefit to being authentic people and connecting authentic ways is that connection with other healthy people gets our needs met, we feel nourished, together, closer, loved, seen, heard, and hopefully on somelevel the other person too and we draw closer if they are healthy people. It fufils a need for expresion as well. ........... as a trauma survivor i was in what i call survival responses due to being raised by an abusive person, and i was doing a whole lot of fawning that didn't feel like i was connecting to people. My self-expression and the fun of connection was difficult to access due to being in this survival response from a hardcore abuser. I had to do a whole of healing and recovery and getting sober , and my recovery actually started, when i was able to start setting boundaries and not continue to allow myself to be pushed around, or scapegoated! The authentic me or true self started to emerge from that as i gave myself some protection and safety. i guess people and me are authentic because thats what connection is an authentic joyful exchange of true and honest emotion that helps us feel the togetherness and closeness of humanity .......
I really like how you worded that Francisco, so are you right: one of the biggest benefits of getting rid of toxic people, is that we make space for healthy people - and avoid polluting them by proxy! And life with healthy people is so much nicer, and more meaningful. And yes, when we learn to fawn, it’s unsurprising we seek people who seek fawners. And once we heal, we change the world around us (and beyond). And once we can be (dare be) authentic, yes, we can establish meaningful connections. As you can see, fully agreed - and well written. Thank you for sharing!
@@fribersson yeah to recover that hurt inner child and become its loving parent and champion it as I emerge in the true self and allow those disenfranchised feelings that i had to supress for years to come out and grieve them safely. A whole process of becoming now authentic and integrating the survival self, learning healthy behaviours and practicing them and seeing I dont need to do things i needed to survive because they are no longer serving me! Thanks for the channel as well!
I was so relieved to get this video. Your Christmas videos from Thailand helped me so much. My BPD daughter left Christmas Day with my 9 year old granddaughter, and I have not had contact or have no idea how my granddaughter is. I got a text on Valentines from her saying she loves me and misses me (I was her primary caregiver for 5 years. What I hate about these toxic types is they make the beautiful profane. Your video today reinforces that my other two daughters and their families realize the situation because my deceased husband was a malignant Narcissist who stalked me for four grueling years. He’s been gone (dead) for 20 years, but his legacy lives on in his daughter. This history helps guide me now, but 25 years ago there weren’t people who even understood the treachery of this disease. He kidnapped my two daughters to Mexico and abandoned them for 2 days. Even then, the family court system put us through hell to make sure we weren’t lying. So going NO CONTACT with my daughter has worked in the past (she didn’t communicate for 8 months), but this time she took my granddaughter with her. Your strength of purpose and clarea,y sistema. Thsnk you so much. My eyes are too weak to edit this, so please forgive typos.Thank you❤️
I'm so pleased to read this Martie! These situations are so complex and tough. It's so important for us to move on, show ourselves kindness - and work towards having a peaceful heart: letting go of the past and being grateful for what we have so we can enjoy the future. So hard, perhaps the hardest thing to do in life, and perhaps the most important.
Please do not worry about typos :) Rest your eyes. And thank you for your encouragement, it motivates me to create more and share ideas others may find helpful. Thank you!
@@fribersson i have read your kind reply over and over again. Validation from you and the importance of the work you do make it humbling to acknowledge how lonely it can be. Being discarded by a daughter to whom I gave every physical and emotional support at every step of her 37 years, really cuts deep. I’m certain she means it to, and that meanness has stilled my heart. There is evil in their behavior. I’m rising above but it is a slow and painful climb. Your support is priceless. Thank you so much for being there. The world gets curiouser and curiouser but also crazier. Good time to rise above. Thanks
@Martie McBride, I received so much unexpected support from my teachers in Russia and Kazakhstan, unconditional love and acceptance as I was, and respect. I wish for others to experience the same (always possible to fly to Kazakhstan and meet them, sometimes they travel to Dubai too). In the meantime, I share what I can - we're all in the same boat. Yes, alienation from family members hurts so much - and we can lament it and grow. Few have the strength to. And, maybe, we all deserve to, if we manage. This are not small challenges, the betrayal of a child, a loved one, choosing to heal. Few manage, they are truly heroes and they do make the world a much better place. We underestimate how important our wellbeing is. You mention having given every physical and emotional support for 37 years. Maybe this is a sign it's time that you give it to... yourself now. Maybe that is a beautiful lesson? Assuming you're not already doing it (who is?), to love ourselves as we try to love others. And, maybe, if we manage, we'll then be able to truly love others, not from a place of need, but a place of peace and acceptance and respect. Take care Martie!
4:05 GOLD sentence
Thank you. I like how you draw everything back to function. This addresses triangulation where the 3rd party is lifted up/exalted very well.
A toxic person may alternatively triangulate in a negative manner- to trigger the target to defend the toxic person against the 3rd party, demonizing them. An example is the story of the “crazy ex” who was actually the most recently discarded target of narcissistic abuse. The function is similar. They get the effort of the 3rd party to dispel false accusations. They discredit the 3rd party (their last target). Most importantly, they create loyalty and alliance with the new supply, growing the bond with a common cause. This works particularly well on “helpers” and “white knights”, and others who find it validating to champion victims.
The answer is the same. Don’t engage with people who don’t want to treat you well. If you’re stuck for legal reasons, approach them as you would a toddler. This is their developmental state. Pay attention to their actions, not the words, stay alert, insist on accountability, consistently and dispassionately enforce boundaries, and give no energies directly to the toxic person in response to their toxic treatment.
Way easier said than done.
Any more information as to how to make it easier to do those things and maintain those mindsets would be incredibly useful… especially enforcing boundaries in a way that doesn’t give the narcissist supply or provoke them to further toxic behavior.
Again thank you for the well-considered content.
This is really interesting, I hadn't thought about the "negative triangulation", which is indeed similar, and does have some nuances. Perhaps, for instance, they might tell us their ex is crazy, while at the same time telling the ex that we're difficult. That wouldn't surprise me. Double speak...
Thank you for the suggestions, I'll ponder that and see if I have anything relevant to suggest.
And thank you for your comments, I always appreciate them!
@@fribersson yes, toxic people waste no effort. If they can get the extra juice by playing both sides, they will.
One thing to be very grateful for about narcissistically toxic people is the predictability of their behavior patterns. For those stuck dealing with narcissistic people long-term, this can be a huge blessing once the target understands the principles associated with the pattern.
I feel like that is the education you’re supporting here. Good job and thanks.
@@eponymoususer8923 Yes, indeed, once we see the pattern, all else falls into place and we stop wondering what we are doing wrong or what we could do differently. They really are cookie cutter people, no real agency, really just like unpleasant NPCs in a video game. Once we realise someone is an NPC, there's no point talking with them, because their brain simply rejects any nuance. There actually is a test to see if people are NPCs, it's rather funny to do, though unpleasant for some when they realise they're acting just like NPCs / narcissists 😬
And yes, this is what I'm striving to do, show and expose the patterns so people have the tools to navigate these situations and stay clear. No "I will tell you what to think" but rather "let me share what helped me see more clearly, perhaps you'll find some of this relevant".
@@fribersson I see their efforts as attention, power and control as a function of supply. They are not seeking attention so much as the underlying supply. Being lazy and self entitled, they will use positive and negative attention in unison to gain the attention (positive or negative) and, thus, the underlying supply. My narcissist obtained just as much supply by turning my kids against me as she did positive attention from them.
Yes, good point. I see it a bit liking "kicking the ant hill": "I'm bored, I want a thing, I'll do a thing." A bit like Berne's "let's you and him fight." Tension is exciting for them and desirable. Consequences? Be damned.
The more I think of it, the more I think of energy vampires and feel that vampires are an accurate description.
😮😮😮😮😮😮 omg! 😅 I couldn’t understand why he was staging things. I hid my jealousy at first and he was very uncomfortable. I had a feeling he wasn’t just worried about getting caught.
It says it all, sadly :-/
I've seen where they actually bring in more than just 1 other person. They were actually working on 4-5 with 1 or 2 as their main supply. And would rotate thru. Have mult people jealous and upset.
Sooner or later they start thinking back to how it started (when they are unhappy and giving less attention)
You can never trust somebody that started from cheating.
If they did it once they will do it again.
There are exceptions. However, they must have a very, very good reason to not cheat again, i.e. a selfish reason, as opposed to “I enjoyed it, sorry it hurt you.” In other words, that is incredibly rare.
They will do it again. Like this man stated, if you find a method that works why wouldn’t you do it. So why would the narc give up all this attention?
My former best friend would always triangulate me with her love interests AND mine. She’d tell her dudes she couldn’t spend as much time with them because I was jealous (a complete lie), then when she would meet my love interests, she’d get their numbers and emails behind my back and would give them “tips” on how to deal with me. She acted like she was the Me Whisperer and that she needed to control my love life, not me. If I wanted to break up with someone, she always took their side and continued to talk to them despite how uncomfortable it made me
Classic behaviour, so toxic - what a nightmare! Thanks for sharing!
And what if you can't leave ..due to maybe certain reasons kids or not financially stable feeling stuck in this situation
Reframe that as a choice: you are choosing to not leave. So you are choosing more of the same. Choices are not easy, but except breathing, everything in life is a choice. We simply face consequences.
My narcissistic ex continues to communicate with me, sending pictures of his new supplies and asking for my opinion. Recently, he discarded the person he left me for in favor of yet another new supply. He even sent me screenshots of what he wrote to the new supply about the previous one.
I wonder if either of them knows about me or this ongoing communication. I’m not sure, but I don’t think they do.
I just got out of a relationship with a man like this on top of ghosting lies cheating but he always talked about his ex or out of know where mentioned he was seeing someone else in the past in the beginning of the relationship like why mention it out the blue and he always asked me after am I crying?! They are sadistic
This is so eye opening.
You described my toxic ex 💯 snd he never realized that he is toxic and last time I didn’t listen to his manipulating words when you feel that I’m guilty. You already explained to me but I believed to him and gave a chance. He is still texting me and trying to manipulate me , I blocked him but still finding the way to text me :(
So sorry to read that Sayora. No, these people believe they are normal and the rest of the world is a problem. Believing people, giving them a second change is based on assumptions about others. We need to have as an option that the person might be crazy, mentally ill. Without that assumption, we're blind sided. Have you tried grey rock? I mention that towards the end of my live Q&A and will post another video soon. Remember to not react or be triggered, that's what they want :-/
This is true such a slippery slope…
Yes it is Debra, makes me think I should possibly do a video about salami tactics and how they are used to attack healthy boundaries. Thank you!!
Narcs friends too
Yes, the phenomenon of triangulation is not just a question of having three different persons “involved “ in the same circumstances or relationship, but simply an individual approach of all of a three :) Everyone’s responsible for his own actions, thoughts, emotions, illusions. Love this lucid and very simple & logical analysis as it’s realistic. What will anyone potentially do in such a situation is just an individual matter. If a narcissist creates his illusionary nets, fake relations, grabbing the pieces of reality in an “improper “, “unacceptable “ way, trying to use and abuse others, isn’t he doing it for his own self?! Isn’t his behaviour just an effect of mirroring his own self? Maybe he could be able to see himself better in reflection of his own actions towards others? It would be just nice. Then we wouldn’t have a “problem “ of triangulation :) But the problem exists, indeed. As the narcissist can’t see himself, but through others! So, there’s no responsibility or any questionnaire in him. Others are those who create himself, so they “are those to be responsible “ ! What a careless lifestyle :) One thing is certain: we can choose either we are part of fake theatrical game or not. Having in mind that fact, we are indeed responsible for our choice. Would it be logical and acceptable for anyone to be treated as an object who’s about to be used, abused and drained as a source of supply of some majesty called narcissist? Would anyone enjoy being manipulated, abused or invalidated? I guess not. So, is there any problem to simply reject a call to participate some absurd pointless game? I don’t see it. If you feel uncomfortable in shoes you’ve just bought, you may return them, or keep walking until the pain warns you of possibility to take them off. The same with the narcissist. You can reject or accept his “Game of thrones”. I already did. Said “goodbye “ to his majesty, as don’t find myself in a role of a servant at all :) Just continued to live freely, surrounding myself with real tangible people. Once more, impressive analysis, convincing and pretty practical. Enjoyed. Love it 😊
Interesting comment Dragana, thank you. I love the shoe metaphor: if they don't fit, return them. Or stop wearing them. The issue I see often is the assumption that "maybe something explains", the hope something might change, the reluctance to... stop wearing those shoes. Food for thought for another video, thank you! And really pleased you enjoyed this :-)
This is fantastic! I never saw it like that but it is just logical.
Thank you. Happy to read it makes sense. Yes, it does seem so logical with the right lens. Thanks for commenting!
@@fribersson Especially when you got out of it and are able to see clearly again.
I can proudly say that I am sober now. :-D
Brilliant, happy to read that. It's amazing how much of a difference it can make. And clarity of mind is SO important - that's one reason why they try to pollute our minds so much, it makes us so vulnerable!
Great TH-cam page. keep the good work 👌🏼
Thank you so much Johanna!!
My husband is cheating on me after discarding me anyway he told me it’s to make me jealous he’s bat shit crazy
Why is he still your husband then? Get a divorce if you don’t want him to cheat on you. Simple
OMG AMAZING explanation
Thank you Sonia. Seems to make sense, right?
When i realized they do all this so you dont move on n stay focused on them while they do whatever i left and dont care i realized whag was happening when she moved in woth my mom my mom is also a narc and she tried to turn my family against me i could care less and she got enraged threatened me with court still dont care lol most of my famaily cut her off when they realised what she was they infact taught me what a narc was i didnt know just knew she was sick only my mom and a few others support her but i have grew so much from all this
I SO (!) enjoyed it. Thank you very, very much.
You're most welcome, thank you for the kind comment! :-)
@@fribersson Been with one too many narcissists- Unfortunately as a result, I have spend a lot of energy speculating, if anyone cares for being "good" and treat each other with true respect.. or if it is like a rare kind of human who is like that.. and who is actually sincere. And truely wants a good realtionship without games, selfish intentions and microcuts of all sorts. What are your thoughts on that, I dare to ask.
Roughly 10% of people are ultra toxic. Another 10% pretty toxic. And most people are just hurt, confused and doing their best. With the right tools, we can snip toxicity in the bud. If more people did therapy, it would be better - and it is possible to encourage people to improve. Not easy to word it right, and possible. That also requires unlearning games and recognising toxicity. Part of what I try to share is ways to recognise toxicity any of us can exhibit, so we can do less - and so we can identify the people who don't want to do less. If that makes sense?
@@fribersson Thank you. Yes, that makes sense. Good to have a percentage on it.
It is hard to accept that there are toxic people who really dont want to work on themselves, because what they do, works for them somehow.
If they didn't refuse to work on themselves, would they be toxic? ;-)
My ex Narc & her new rebound has now joined thee same gym as me…..I ignore them whole hardly…..I dnt feed into her ego…….What’s her next move also I changed the time I hit the gym now..
Reason not to do it. Some guys don't put up with it and simply leave.
So what reaction does he have if you tell him you’re not dealing with other women any more and break up with them? I gave him the jealousy he wanted, but walked away. Did he still win?
You won because you walked away so you don’t have to deal with his cheating anymore. Well done you get a star from me: ⭐️
Great stuff!!
The more he says "this actually makes sense" I worry that he's the narcissist! lol But I think he's just being objective.
Speaking of narcissism, I think some Venn diagrams would be able illustrate it lol
Mine brought in the parents . Well that didn’t go well lol
Hi from South African vloggers
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Hi to South Africa! Hope you guys are well and safe!
I
ignored my narc ex and she broke no contact and wanted my attention, later she was trying to make me jealous with her new men. What does it mean?
@evanfrancismusic do you recognize yourself?
Wow amazing 👏👏👏👏👏👏
Thank you Hey Hey!
He got emotions from me aright I got a restraining order and threw both him and my daughter in-law out f... that
Sounds like you solved the issue then. These idiots sometimes don't realise their idiocy backfires... Hubris.
I like your voice
Thank you! :)
no is normal to leave when someone disrespects you. anything else your weak and cant blame them for your weakness
You don't understand NPD abuse. It's not the victims fault.
My sister in law would triangulate my children against me. Insidious..
Hm, interesting, I didn't think of that. Do you find this model works in that situation too? It seems to me it might, and I might be missing something, or there might be some specifics that are different?
@@fribersson yes. This is because she gets supply in multiple ways. First, she derives supply from their admiration of her. Second, she derives supply from seeing them devaluing me. Third, she derives supply from observing my distress at having them choose her and not me. The bonus is that they do her devaluing and discarding for her thereby giving her plausible deniability.
@@charliesmith_ thank you. We have to support one another to remind the community that we are not the ones who are crazy.
Interesting analysis, when listed like this, it seems to make so much sense. She possibly also enjoys the knowledge that she got them to destroy the relationship from the inside.
Isn't the biggest satisfaction of a dictatorship when the children turn in their own family? This goes against our deepest values and choosing someone else over our own DNA isn't a small thing.
And perhaps the depth of this DNA thing is a reason it's so hard to come to terms with the fact that some parents are toxic?
Got it 😂it’s all a game speed up
Why are they so desperate for attention? They're just pathetic.
Eject and reject.
Why would they triangulate after 2 years of no contact?
Because bored, suddenly wanting entertainment, pang of resentment, who knows. They felt like it.
586 likes💓💛🖤
Lies and dishonesty is pathognomic of narcissists. Anyhow the presenter is kind of handsome.
So in your thumbnail, you marked the dude as the narcissist!! 👎👎👎👎👎
I typically alternate between men and women in the thumbnails. I think I looked for the same photo but with the sexes reversed and couldn't find one. Not sure why that's upsetting, as I don't do any of the "dumping on 50% of humans" BS?