SHARPENING FILES WITH ACID ~ DESIGN OF EXPERIMENT
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ส.ค. 2024
- Around 2006 I came across an article in a email sent by one of my friends on the Old Tool Mailing List. A clear explanation of this process and several similar metods can be found at page 235 of Workshop Receipts: For Manufacturers and Scientific Amateurs, Volume 2. It's available free from Google books.
The article spoke of how files can be sharpened by immersion in acid. When I first learned about the process from Jim Thompson on the Old Tools Mailing List I was a bit skeptical. It sounded too good to be true. Jim had never steered me wrong so I tried it. It worked. I had some growing pains learning how long to leave the files in the bath. A couple of Swiss cheese files convinced me that forgetting them was a sure route to failure. :-) When I knew it worked and had finalized the process I decided to share it. I made a video of the process in November of 2012 and posted it to TH-cam. I expected a hundred or so people that I regularly corresponded with on the list would be interested. Little did I know it would be one of the most viewed videos on my channel.
Others have followed a similar process, with similar success. One of them is • How to Sharpen Metal F...
The concept has been hotly debated with a 60/40 mix of agree/disagree. Most of the disagreement comes from people who quote other video sources without trying it themselves.
The idea of sharpening drill bits as a test of the process has been brought up before. The differing actions of a file and a drill bit are the reason it isn't used to sharpen drill bits.
Drills use the width of the point to define the diameter of the hole that is drilled.
Acid removes metal from every surface it comes in contact with. The drill bit will become smaller in diameter just as fast as it becomes sharp. You end up with a drill bit that is sharper but with a random sized diameter
The same, two surfaces being eaten away, process exists because the diameter is the measure of the distance between the two sides of the bit.
It will work on a knife but who wants a thinner shorter knife?
Besides each of the other suggested arguments against using acid, points out a device that is normally sharpened in a different way, as an example of the acid process being a failure. If it were as easy to run a stone down the edge of the files teeth as it is a knife we all wouldn't bother with the mess of acid sharpening.
Milling cutters are ground on center grinders because they have fewer flutes than a file would have in the same distance. 😊
If you would like a good history of files, how they are made, and used I recommend The File It’s History Making And Uses by Henry Disston & Son. Upload of a copy from the Stanford University Library is available here.
play.google.com/books/reader?...
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When I took the CPA exam, years ago, they wouldn’t let anyone use a calculator. They do now. Like you, I like to find old auger bits and renew them. And yes, it was a compliment. She’s an RN, and knows how to patch me up first, before she points out how I didn’t think.
Same thing for my accounting class. No calculators.
You’re not that much older than I am. My wife is also from Michigan. I’m from Arkansas. I’ve run across relatives from Arkansas, Texas, California, and Ohio, and there are surprising similarities, and it’s not generational, so there appears to be something genetic that comes out. You seem like a retired teacher or engineer, always curious and designing experiments to show how things work, not just that they do. I have many of both in my family, and I find myself not only looking for what works, but asking why, also.
Engineer/Supervisor/Manager/Business owner.
60 years working as an apprentice on up.
Asking questions is a valuable practice. 😁😎
i remember well the last file sharpening video and it blows me away that it's been that long. I've been around here longer than I thought! Good place to hang out though and why lie when we won't get judged for telling the truth! LOTS easier! A-PLUS, Unc!
Lewie McNeely here here well put my good friend how’s my little buddy today hopefully still improving. And I agree one heck of a good place to hang out 👍
Hi Ad Man and all is well on the swamp! Sunny but clouds rolling in and will probably get a shower this afternoon. Little Miss is doing fine! Been crawling up in my lap and inside and out to lay in the sun. Just a few days and all her pill popping will be over and she'll be back to the usual goofiness. Hope all is well in the shop/home with the Dragon and kitty!
Lewie McNeely very glad to hear it .all well here but I've got to give it a rest in the shop starting to feel it the pain killers are getting more frequent and because I'm enjoying myself so much I'm tending to keep popping the pills but that's not the way to go so I'll have to be strong and say no ish lol
We've all got to say no to something and as we get older, mores the pity. And more and more. And even more. I still am. If we won't quit what's hurting us as my buddy said, it'll be our end. Don't want to rush it any more than we do.
Sir you explain very nicely yes like a professional
So nice of you
..i'll be here Bossman!! Same Sneelock channel, same Sneelock time, except for the weekend...!!
I try to be consistant. 😁😎
My uncle is a retired engineer, and my parents were teachers. I thought I recognized your curiosity and presentation style. I learned to use a slide rule before there were calculators. Thank you. By the way, I showed your videos to my wife, and she said are you sure you’re not related? You think in that way also.
Asking a student what a significant figure is will get you a blank look.😁
I learned to use a guessing stick and calculated tolerance stack ups with a sheet of paper.
My son learned on a programmable calculator.
I can still run the stackup with my paper and a pencil.
He won't find his TI anymore. If he does, just as soon as it is done, the numbers vanish and you have to do it over. 😁😎
I am taking your wife's comment as a compliment to both of us. When the storm is coming and the lights go out we get the call. 😁😎
Good explanation. I've been doing this for years. Initially like you I was skeptical BUT it works great. Most often i use ithis method with my hoof rasps. As a caution, your viewers should know if one does this indoors the outgasing will absolutely rust any steel tools nearby.
Hardnox The plan was to show the test tomorrow. Best laid plans. I have to scrounge or build a container. Mushroom boxes don't work.
Oh poop! I took Thursday off. Lol. Seriously, I built mine like your other acid holders. I used 2" pipe. As you know you can't cap when using muriatic acid or the thing will pop. I cook my big rasps for 9 hours. Yhe smaller bastard files for 4, and the mill files for 3 hours. Works like a charm. Afterwards I hit them with a spray of gun bluing and then some oil.
Don't give up hope. When all else fails improvise. 😈
I know it’s been a long time since this video was uploaded, but I enjoyed it. By the way, where are from? You remind me so much of my granddad, who was originally from Iowa. Many of the files I have were his, and are in pretty good shape (he was a mechanic and maintained his tools well).
Michigan. Not that far. Old guys tend to think alike. 😀😀😎
A knife salesman told about this about 45 years ago.I use old battery acid,works great.A test to see if a file is sharp is to press a silver dime onto the teeth
of the file and it should stick to the file.
It's been a long time since I've seen a silver dime. But I bet it would stick if I had one. 🙂
Looking forward to the rest of the series. Question - how do you "take care of" your files? Is that related to cleaning after using or storage? I'm forever trying to improve my storage. They always seem to rub against each other, no matter what I do. Do you have a drawer dedicated, or build a holder?
New files use to come in a cardboard box wrapped individually in paper. I use paper to wrap them and put them in a a divided drawer.
During use I clean them with a file card. I'll go over more of that tomorrow.
Thanks! Good info.
I'm curious what the best container would be to put the acid mixture in while cleaning. Pvc seems the cheapest,but wonder if the acid would affect the PVC. Steel pipe sounds good but wondering the same reaction tween the acid and the pipe. Did you experiment? I have several items I'd like to clean but they are long and skinny. 2 inch steel pipe with a cap sounds good. Thanks.
PVC pipe is the best, and least expensive material. Iron pipe will disolve in the presence of a weak sulfuric acid solution.
This is so cool you don’t have to prove to me I’ve was lucky enough to see files made and they finish them in acid for the final sharpening well they did in the old days before fancy machines I guess . And you aren’t a lier . I’ve had a parcel in turned by customs and had a letter to say if I want it is £38 to pay import tax ? I wonder what it is I’ve paid it so we’ll see when it’s delivered . Expect one from me as well unc a little thank you hope you like hand made by myself 👴🏻🔨🔨👍
Is vinegar to weak for sharpening? Could you use muriatic acid? This is very interesting!
Tony Lenge Vinegar will work. In the US vinegar for cooking is 5% acetic acid. White cleaning vinegar can be up to 10%. Either will work. Muratic can cause hydrogen embrittlement.
do files ever go dull or do they just need cleaned
They get dull. Any sharp edge will wear away. Even very hard steel will wear if it is rubbed against steel that is close to the same hardness.
That js why you want to protect your files by not letting them rub against each other.
When you purchase boxes of files they come wrapped in paper. There is a layer between each file.
You can look at the edge of a worn file under a magnifying glass and see the worn teeth.
Wait what??? Now your going to make me wait for the out come???
F4u-SuperCorsair Sorry to keep you in suspenders. 😈
I have tried to sharpen a file with acid, this just trashed my file after leaving it in the acid for a day.
I did the same thing early on in my experimenting with the process. I set up a batch in the tank and got called away. The next day the file had been eaten until it was nearly gone.
Now I use a 10% solution of sulfuric acid drain cleaner in water to slow the reaction time.
During the time that the file is in the bath I pull it out and test it's sharpness every 15 minutes or so.
No process is perfect, but with patience and some practice you will get it.
@@OldSneelock I tried to use vinegar after draino messed up my Nicholson USA cabinet rasp.
So now we're back to this? Isn't it just ducky that you have demonetized a video after promising to fix what causes these annoying and costly mistakes.
What about using drain cleaner to sharpen files is terrible enough to demonetize this video?
I don't mention an advertiser. I don't advocate violence. I don't even use a bad word.
Why would you think that this is bad? The video on my channel with the most views has exactly the same process in it and it is mentioned in over 20 videos over the past 6 years since I first posted it.
I understand that you don't want to risk having your advertisers get angry. I am also an advertiser, and a creator, with over 1200 videos all but two of them are monetized.
If you continue to make me angry I will pull all 1211 videos and stop bothering to give you my work to make money from. I would rather not be on TH-cam than be treated like this.
It is disgraceful that you give me a canned answer as to why you won't take the time to improve your process. Telling me it's the algorithm like it's not your fault. I am a programmer too. Algorithms are what programs are. If you have several hundred million lines of code and can't find anyone to fix them because you neglected to annotate and debug your programming as you built it then that's just too bad. I don't accept your excuse.
Most programmers sit in a cubicle, which is a box well insulated from the outdoor environment, the world, and reality in general.
So this is how I think it might work: TH-camr uses the word "sharpen", "sharpening" multiple times; cleaning several times, and THE ALGORITHM determines the video to be shot in a basement. These data points are thrown into the database, and compared to other videos with these same data points. Another THE ALGORITHM (there are actually thousands of them; just like some old tech support places that *required* all phone workers to answer to "Bob") determines that, despite whatever information you have given them about yourself, in this video, you are actually a fifteen year old boy (probably with acne & very few friends) talking about knives! It's ridiculous that they can identify a copyrighted song being sung so far off key that only a dog could tell you what it is; but they would rather blacklist ten-thousand videos rather than allow one through that might offend an advertiser.
You wan Muriatic.......not Sulfuric....................Z
What is your reason for using muratic?