I agree however they definitely pay significantly less that. They buy these things in BULK so they're getting a big discount. For example a commercial P320/M17 costs $700 brand new but the army only pays $176 each
End of the year, they have to spend anything they have left over so that they don't get their budget reduced the following year. Doesn't matter what they spend it on. They just have to empty the account.
@@iansanchez331 We need a law so retail can be no more than twice .gov cost. It should be same cost. In sheer purchase numbers, the retail market buys more than uncle sugar.
@aaronfarnsworth7653 that'd be interesting. They're also probably inflating the retail price so that they don't end up over selling the optics and then not being able to meet production numbers for the contract
It's a shame Sig chose to go that route price-wise. I'm sure they will sell a few hundred of them. Meanwhile, the other manufacturers will copy the functionality, release reasonably priced units and sell many thousands of them. Thanks Sig.
As Mac stated, they designed this primarily for military applications and we all know how much the gooberment loves to spend our money for toys most of us will never be able to afford.
@@robertkoonce8365yeah whenever it's something that's bound for big military contract the civilian market gets the shaft - see also everything Surefire makes
It’s made in America with titanium. That’s why it’s expensive. They designed it for a contract clearly, not for you. But like everything else they do for the military, they’ll let you buy it too. Looking at you HK
If they intend on it being bought by the military or an agency, it explains the crazy price. They cant charge civilians one price and the govt another, so they just charge the government so much, it makes up for no civilian sales. There are a lot of products and companies like this. Your favorite "seals" kit isnt expensive bc its top of the line, its expensive bc they have a government contract.
I would say Sig is pricing this to keep it out of civilian hands. Only irresponsible gub'mint spending would pay that much for it. Remember: commi-ism doesn't make it illegal, it makes it so you can't afford it.
It would need to have integrated LRF, IR Laser, IR illuminator, shake awake, and a camera with Digital imaging superimposed on the screen to justify the price.
A piggy back red dot on top of a prism optic can accomplish the same thing at a fraction of the cost and with more capability. The piggy back optic is zeroed for 300 Blackout subs, and is used for CQB for both supers and subs as the point of impact shift between them at these closer ranges is negligible. It sits higher on the rail giving you the "head up" shooting stance that is ideal for CQB, night vision, situational awareness, etc. The prism is zeroed for supers as it is intended to be used for longer range, more precision shots.
Funny how silly it seems when you just take a minute or two to think about it, right? If the price wasn't insane, I could see it being a convenient solution, but not when you could buy any number of other things to accomplish the same task and for less money.
Well. Sig is definitely trying to target the military's Special Operations contract or their "special credit card." Definitely beneficial to go from subs to supers depending on ops, without having to change anything on your rifle setup. Not like cost really matters for the military's Special operations units, but i guess a 4k optic could save on a $2300 upper, $500-900 optics, $3k-4k ngal, $600 surefire. They're definitely not making this for the civilian market.
I got to play with that sight last summer when they were launching the Romeo X and RM17. The story I was told was that they aren't expecting to sell many of them to civilians - a tier 1 group asked for it specifically. The desire was to dispatch two gate guards with supers then be able to swap back to subs and CQB. So the price reflects the gubmint paying for it.
They have gotten to the point now where people will buy their products regardless of price. The Sig fan bois are just as bad as any 2000s boy band fans. Overpriced now that they have a loyalty
They are rolling in government contracts, if they can sell the sight under contract at $4k they're not going to care on the civilian side. Maybe they'll come out with a civilian version for "only" $800
Outrageous. For that, I want the optic to have tons of memory slots and can autodetect what gun you put it on and will display what bullet your shooting on the hud display.
At that price, I would just build a second upper with it's own optic to go from super to sub. Now like you say when others come out like Holosun and they are 3 to 400 bucks, I am in.
Except then that defeats the whole point of .300BLK which is to make one mediocre rifle that can turn into a mediocre sub gun with nothing but a mag change. This sight really seems like they want to milk the government for all they can get, they're really getting their money's worth after bribing whoever in the DOD to get both their crappy guns adopted and they're only ones dumb enough to drop $4000 on a single red dot sight. This red dot's probably still built by Holosun too so I'd bet it only costs $50 to make.
You can literally just mount 2 micro dot sights in sequence too. Conceptually they should not interfere with each other. Less weight than a whole seperate upper probably similar weight to this sight & $3000-$3500 less cost.
My thoughts exactly! Heck, you can build or buy a second complete rifle with it's own Holosun for less than Sig wants for that thing. I can't believe they'll sell a lot of them to regular people at that ridiculous price.
Thanks, MAC team, for keeping us up to date on the new tech. I learned in the 80s that if you want Sig/Sauer, you will have to pay for it. Appreciate y'all.
You do pay for what you get from sig in my opinion, however, this is insane price gouging. I assume this is for the military which is why the price is so damn high.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZI thought Mepro MOR Pro was pretty expensive. Not anymore! 😂 At 1k that at least has ir and vis laser covered so someone can just add a SF vampire light and call it a day. On the other hand this thing is like spending a freaking SCAR20 money on a red dot. I can't even justify that kind of money for a high power scope! 😢
Yeah, I'd rather not spend 5% of my annual income on an optic. If I made 4k a week, sure why not. Even then, I'd rather have multiple uppers or even multiple guns for different loads
I can’t help but wonder if they charge that price because some idiot in the government is willing to pay it for the military. That or the guys at Sig use extremely expensive beard oil. It’s a very clean looking and robust design. Cool product, not nearly 4K cool though. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us Tim.
Sig says this has super special reflector stuff so the enemy cannot see your red dot reflection from the front end. That gave me an idea for a new video. Test the light emissions out the front of all red dots and holos and illuminated LPVOs and prisms you can get your hand on under night vision. Is it just fudd lore that an enemy with NVs would be able to see your scope emissions even when "passive" aiming? Or des it make sense that Sig wants to sell their $3k red dot without front reflection?
It's mostly due to the glass angle. Meprolight TruVision is the same thing with less of the gimmicks and "gubbmint price". And yes it's fuddlore. Do FOF or serve in a branch who do mock combat and you'll come to quickly see that light emissions is not that big of an issue when you can see a human head sticking out like a sore thumb. Which is why I would never understand light caps or killflashes.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZLight emissions unders NOD-s is a different issue. And you can't really see a human head when a person is prone. And most of the light emssions which expose you happen in CQB, atleast with WML-s. A killflash will also give away your firing position, especially at night. This is not even factoring in the blinding effect in your own NVG when firing at night without a killflash, although most SOF units just use supressors which also negates the flash.
I think this is an awesome concept, the capability and flexibility with what you can do with this optic set up is incredible. I cant wait to see what other options will be available in the near future!
I have a Vortex Viper 1-6 on my Sig MCX 300blackout. The point of impact for my super sonics is the dot....and it just so happens to have worked out that the bottom of the chevron is the POI for the 220 grain subs. It has worked very well for me for years.
You know, being a little bit if a watch guy, I was thinking "what did they put a rechargeable battery in there and a rotor like on an automatic watch to keep it charged when you're moving? 😂
Sig reminds me of Heckler and Koch, good products with exorbitant pricing because their intended customer is the military/LE who are used to overpaying for things since they aren't spending their own money. 💸💸💸
two things about the military/LE. It´s cheaper to buy good stuff that can take a beating. I don´t know what the aimpoint on My H&K G3 costed the govrement. but if they could have got away with buying something cheaper. I am shure they would have. the second thing the govrement buys a lot and don´t pay retail price. // former POG.
Sig is playing the market high but won’t sell, they will have to re-release at a reasonable cost (~$1,200), all red dot brands will eat a big one because no red dot is worth the $900 they want now because they’re just a dot.
I believe they will release a lower priced alternative down the road, like you I don't see a lot of these being sold outside of military circles, even LEO's don't have that kind of scratch.
Wilcox boss sight has been out offering the sub/super zero with a manual flip like a spectre DR to switch between them, similarly prices and includes a host of IR lasers and illumination all in the same housing
Woah... $3900? Wouldn't it just make more sense to have 2 lightweight sights (T2 or the like) with the offset being subs? The price is near thermal sight realm, I just don't see the justification for the price besides "First in Best Dressed"
Saving multiple zeros for different loads and configurations has been a concept I’ve had for many years. I don’t have the knowledge to do it myself, but I’m glad someone finally did.
Thanks for the detailed review on this VERY advanced sight. I WANT ONE. But until I hit big on POWERBALL I'll stay with my HOLOSUN AEMS on my 9 mm RUGER PC chassis carbine. Configureable reticle, NV compatable settings, solar panel, lens covers, very rugged (see Sage Dynamics' review on YT) and, best of all, reasonably priced. In fact CURENTLY (Jan. 2024) the AEMS may be the closest rd dot to the ROMEO 9T.
I don't see why it costs so much... generally LED tech is much cheaper to make than holo/laser sights from what I understand. I have several EOTechs, and while they are a little spendy this Sig 9T just seems ridiculous. You can get thermal sights for cheaper, several of which let you save multiple zeroing points for different rifles or even like in your case different ammo types or weapon configurations. Really for $3900 I'd expect way more features, like an integrated magnifier that can pop down out of the line of sight. And even with that feature I'd not expect more than $2500 for something like this. I know it is brand new, and perhaps the price will come down a lot after a year - but yeah I can't see how anyone can really justify this optic unless money is just not a limitation for them.
It all boils down to the incredible complexities of the internal lensing systems for two dots within the confines of a rather conventionally sized housing. As the tech matures and manufacturing of such tech streamlines you'll see competitive products coming to market at a lower cost. Sig may even offer a reduced cost sight. This one has every feature they could pack in there. It could also be that a military tender required all of the functionality and durability built into the sight, as we all know Uncle Sugar just loves spending our tax dollars and sending manufacturings on wild goose chases like the OICW program.
It’s not the complexity of the sight, it’s the fact that sig is selling these to the military at a certain price per unit And they can’t legally or ethically sell them cheaper to civilians
You'll still hear Ken Hackathorne saying red dots arent necessary. Reminds me of the old timers still talking about carrying revolvers because they dont jam.
Pretty cool. Love the looks/design. It has features that fixes problems that I don’t have. I’m a bit more simple. Plain red dot, if I do shoot suppressed it won’t shift too much that Kentucky windage on the fly can’t fix.
Ive been super existed about this sight but sadly i see it floping just because the price is too high. Really makes it accessible to a handful of groups and people with bottomless pockets. I was ready to get one for my 300 blk until that price
For a red dot that's going to be over $4k once sales tax is added on you would think Sig would at least give you a nice case rather than a cardboard box! Awesome optic just about $3.5k over my price range.
@@calebfuller9591 For 4k, I would like the option to repurpose the case at least. Also just added security for shipping… Because you know, nothing ever gets damaged during shipping.
@@calebfuller9591 I had a trijicon MRO I had to send back for warranty repair a couple of years ago. It was nice just to throw it back in the case it came in to send it back. I keep most of my optic boxes for this very reason. It also will sell better if you have the original case and paperwork to go with it if you ever decide down the road to put it up for sale.
WOW! It is a GREAT design and I was thinking it would be double the price of an Eotech, but $3,899!!!!! That is WAY out of my price range! It should give you a complimentary reach around for that price! Sig is probably marketing this to Military and LEO.
@@jamesgarrison5546 I'm sorry. Wilcox is out of my vocabulary. I drink sweet tea and drive a pickup truck not Perrier sparkling water and an electric Tesla. I only know 2 private citizens that own anything Wilcox branded. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have one but out of my price range as well as most blue collar workers.
Incredible review, I see forgotten weapons mention this a while ago but had forgotten about it. That being said $3899 is ludicrous!!! I am an Sig fan but even this is too much. I’ll just go with the lpvo and offset red dot on my 300 build. I’m not shooting subs past 50 anyway and you can make a light weight enough build to compensate for the little extra weight of the lpvo combo. We need the budget companies to hurry up and come out with similar products to lower the price of this.
Just ran across your channel. Was intrigued by your studio/shoot house. Have you ever done a video showing the layout of the place? Would love to see more of how it's laid out.
I agree with everything you said in the video. A few years ago I made 2 AR pistols: one for supers and one for subs. I got one 4 power with a reticle for either 300 BO or AK 47s that is a prism scope instead of a RDS. And I equiped the other gun with a 1 x 6 LPVO that had a reticle for either 300 BO or an AK 47 round. I put the the LPVO on my gun for supers and the 4X prism scooe on my gun for subs. For a reasonable amount of cash it solved the problem of different points of impact. I am retired and live off the check that uncle Sam sends each month so there is no way I could afford such an expensive scope. The idea is good and if I live long enough maybe I will see the cost come down. For now I expect only the military, with theur unlimited budgets, to buy these scopes.
As many have already pointed out…this is an insane price for literally 1 extra feature. With micro prisms and piggy back / offset micro rds the same thing is accomplished at a fraction of the cost. If sig had introduced this in an $800 sight maybe…but there is nothing new hear except an extra dot. Lets see if Holosun gets it right.
I have a 300 blackout EOTech that’s been out for about 10 years that has two dots in it. Sure you can’t independently adjust the 2 dots but for 100 yards and in which is what 300 blackout is meant for it is right on the money zero it with supers or subs and the dots match up. You can get one of these for 500 bucks.
$3899, and it comes in a cardboard box. Trijicon comes in a very nice Pelican style case for 1/5 the price. The technology is very cool. Just give it a couple of years, and the price will more than likely come down. Great content Tim. Looking forward to your Shotshow coverage. Always Faithful, Always Forward. Aaron Beaulieu
Are you saying you would rather pay a flat $4k and have a REALLY nice box you'll throw in the closet (or throw away) after you open it? I'll take the cardboard box. 😃
@@MilitaryarmschannelFirst of all, you know DAMN WELL they could add in a nicer box and just shave a little off their 1000% profit margin. Second of all, if you have 3900$ for a red dot, you probably have 4000$ for a red dot
@@CorgiEnjoyer The box issue for guns has always made me laugh because half the market will complain and the other half will praise it/not care. But an optic? What do you need a case for an optic for? I have several ACOGs and a few MROs and those nice fancy cases have been sitting in a closet unused since I bought them. I understand this SIG is RIDICULOUSLY overpriced and they could thow in a case but seriously, are you going to take it off of your gun and store it when you aren't shooting? More than likely it will be attached to one gun or another at all times. Also this thing has military contract written all over it, they probably prefer that it comes in a recyclable throw away box vs a bulky plastic shell.
Tim, that is not at all what I am saying. However I am saying that for $3899, SIG could throw in even an off branded Pelican style case at no additional cost to SIG. I agree that most likely the optic would be mounted, and the case would basically become closet fodder. The Pelican style cases are useful for so many other things when going to the range. The optic technology is very cool and I think it will be heavily copied by others. Awesome content. Always Faithful, Always Forward. Aaron Beaulieu @Militaryarmschannel
I dont think it will for this optic. The tech will carry over to cheaper stuff, but this will stay high so sig can offer kickbacks to whatever requisitioning officer orders them for a whole plattoon.
I like the idea, and look forward to competition driving down price. Because at that price, I'd rather just purchase & setup an offset dot coupled with my main dot to zero one for super and another for subs. Or... just do what I do now and have witness marks on my turrets, one for supers and one for subs.
I run two optics in conjunction with one another for this exact purpose. People always thought I was an idiot and while I am an idiot, I at least had the right idea with separately adjustable dots for supers and subs.
Yes the price is high, but this is something we've all wanted and Sig took the leap to make it. Yes other manufacturers will follow with cheaper options. But they wouldn't unless someone took the first leap.
If it had an IR Laser Aiming Module, range finder and automatic Ballistic Calculator I would consider paying that price. Until then I'll use my Eotech Exps 3
I can understand to a degree why the pricepoint is where it's at. It def has a lot of technology packed into it. The glass and the lasers used to help people with astigmatism to be able to see the dots/reticle more easily is a big deal. But using titanium and the battery life is also pretty awesome. I'm going to start a gofundme to get one of these though lol.
Eotech would be my preference, holographic sights don't have the battery life of a reddot, but the magnifier does not magnify the reticle. Don't know what this is, but if it is a 3 MOA dot it would be 9 MOA with a 3x magnifier. Your sarcasm is not lost on me :)
This actually isn’t the first optic with 300blk dual zero system. The 2018 Wilcox BOSS and newer 2022 generation BOSS XE are both designed with sub and super 300blk reticle zeros, toggled by a switch. They are at a similar price point around 4K+ but with the BOSS you also get IR and Vis lasers integrated so you don’t need to purchase a LAM/PEQ
Wow, that is really cool! That is also beyond stupid expensive. I love the features, the idea of $4000 for something with just a red dot, even two of them, is just beyond my imagination. Can I a least have a chevron and some BDC dots for that price? I mean, the cool just does not even remotely outweigh the WTF factor. Hopefully you are right and merely making it will convince others to try to add similar functionally for something less than the price of an entire fully decked out Daniel Defense rifle. I mean, just WOW!
That is astoundingly expensive for such a small use case. I was honestly expecting it had a thermal imaging device built in somehow. Do the two reticles not get close enough that they block your target at range? I suspect they are pricing it knowing they’ll sell so few units and have to cover the development costs.
The common discount of 10% for first responders, etc., accounts for almost the entice price of other red dots. Two dots is great, but maybe $700 great, not $4K.
Sig Romeo 5 is $125.00 add a $100 m-lock green dot laser. Green dot is for subs and red dot is supers. Best part is you can see both at the same time through the Red Dot sight. You're welcome!
This is the first time i will say that Sig is absolutely insane. 4k for a red dot? No one in the right mind would think it was worth that price. Especially when you can spend way less money to do the things this red dot is gimmicked with individually. Honestly, the Spear LT was barely worth the expense for me when i got mine and i already had multiple Virtus and Rattler rifles that are not really any different.
Cool sight. LIke you said, it puts the ball in Holosun, Eotec and Primary Arms Court. Primary arms already has cool reticles. Trijicon's RCR is practically bullet proof. They could update the new RCR to 2 dots. I bet Holosun will have a 2 dot system in less than 2 years. Won't have all the wizardry, but will be affordable. Doesn't Eotec already have a 2 dot reticle? But the dots are not independently adjustable? The LMT MWS with its monolithic upper allows you to quickly change barrels to different. 308 based cartridges. Or different barrel lengths. The SCAR costs a lot more with less flexibility. An MWS in 5.56 case sizes would be cool also. Why the MWS hasn't taken off isna mystery to me.
I've just gotten lucky that both builds that I use supers and subs in, that I was able to zero the same sight at "two" different ranges with the same gun. Basically, my supers and zeroed at 100, the subs hit that spot at 50 yards.
Most innovative sight, Holosun Thermal Red Dot (DMS-TH), Use day or night, thermal overlay or just clear glass modes, and no Zoom or giant thermal scope required. That's innovation.
For $3800, I would want magnification like an Elcan (1-4x or 1-6x) and a few more features. $3800 for a red dot is nuts. Likewise, if you are shooting .300 black out subsonics beyond 100 yards, you must be having a very bad day.
That is a Very Cool Sight is going to be going to be mostly purchased by Elite Units of the Military like Delta, Seal Team 6 and certain squads of the British, Australian and New Zealand SAS plus people that have more money invested in their Gucci Rifles but have no idea how to use them. I will give it 9-12 months before Holosun has a Sight with Similar Features without the high price.
Holopoint should leap frog them, and make a red dot with memory. That can save zeros, and then select between them. So you can use different rounds, or different guns. But then charge 399.00 for it.
My Eotech damn near does the same thing. It has 2 dots for subs and super. You can't adjust them separate but it's very close out to 100. And also it was only 500 bucks.
![The M4 vs M7 Sig Spear NGSW [feat. GBRS Group]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZZ3bbUw3skw/mqdefault.jpg)
![The M4 vs M7 Sig Spear NGSW [feat. GBRS Group]](/img/tr.png)
Only the US Government is stupid enough to pay $4K for a red dot.
Not stupid. Money laundering
I agree however they definitely pay significantly less that. They buy these things in BULK so they're getting a big discount. For example a commercial P320/M17 costs $700 brand new but the army only pays $176 each
End of the year, they have to spend anything they have left over so that they don't get their budget reduced the following year. Doesn't matter what they spend it on. They just have to empty the account.
@@iansanchez331 We need a law so retail can be no more than twice .gov cost. It should be same cost. In sheer purchase numbers, the retail market buys more than uncle sugar.
@aaronfarnsworth7653 that'd be interesting. They're also probably inflating the retail price so that they don't end up over selling the optics and then not being able to meet production numbers for the contract
It's a shame Sig chose to go that route price-wise. I'm sure they will sell a few hundred of them. Meanwhile, the other manufacturers will copy the functionality, release reasonably priced units and sell many thousands of them. Thanks Sig.
As Mac stated, they designed this primarily for military applications and we all know how much the gooberment loves to spend our money for toys most of us will never be able to afford.
@@robertkoonce8365yeah whenever it's something that's bound for big military contract the civilian market gets the shaft - see also everything Surefire makes
Sig has copied this from other manufacturers. The concept has been out for more that a few years.
It’s made in America with titanium. That’s why it’s expensive. They designed it for a contract clearly, not for you.
But like everything else they do for the military, they’ll let you buy it too. Looking at you HK
If they intend on it being bought by the military or an agency, it explains the crazy price. They cant charge civilians one price and the govt another, so they just charge the government so much, it makes up for no civilian sales. There are a lot of products and companies like this. Your favorite "seals" kit isnt expensive bc its top of the line, its expensive bc they have a government contract.
Yeah, $4k for a RDS optic is pretty extravagant.
the should call it "sunset crimson 4k reticle advanced collimator instrument" for that price
I would say Sig is pricing this to keep it out of civilian hands. Only irresponsible gub'mint spending would pay that much for it. Remember: commi-ism doesn't make it illegal, it makes it so you can't afford it.
@@BackToYa Same reason for the NFA.
It would need to have integrated LRF, IR Laser, IR illuminator, shake awake, and a camera with Digital imaging superimposed on the screen to justify the price.
@@BackToYayeah that‘s bs
A piggy back red dot on top of a prism optic can accomplish the same thing at a fraction of the cost and with more capability.
The piggy back optic is zeroed for 300 Blackout subs, and is used for CQB for both supers and subs as the point of impact shift between them at these closer ranges is negligible. It sits higher on the rail giving you the "head up" shooting stance that is ideal for CQB, night vision, situational awareness, etc.
The prism is zeroed for supers as it is intended to be used for longer range, more precision shots.
Funny how silly it seems when you just take a minute or two to think about it, right? If the price wasn't insane, I could see it being a convenient solution, but not when you could buy any number of other things to accomplish the same task and for less money.
This.
Man, how did they not think of that!
@@JunkfoodZombieGuns Almost being able to afford 2 Ta02s for the price of this is nuts.
This
You could literally just buy 2 aimpoint T2s and co-witness them for half the price of this monstrosity. It would probably be lighter too.
Sphur had a prototype mount for just that.
And separate rifles for each.
@@theunofficialresults231 separate uppers.
or get an alpha tarac and not spend nearly as much as that either
Hahaha exactly.
Well. Sig is definitely trying to target the military's Special Operations contract or their "special credit card." Definitely beneficial to go from subs to supers depending on ops, without having to change anything on your rifle setup. Not like cost really matters for the military's Special operations units, but i guess a 4k optic could save on a $2300 upper, $500-900 optics, $3k-4k ngal, $600 surefire. They're definitely not making this for the civilian market.
For almost $4,000 bucks that thing better have night vision
AND thermal.
And make me an awesome sandwich
Nope, just a j-ish man rubbing his hands after you send him sheckles
..and x-ray vision.
It better put Vicks Vapor Rub on my chest and rub my fanny when I have a hard day.
I got to play with that sight last summer when they were launching the Romeo X and RM17. The story I was told was that they aren't expecting to sell many of them to civilians - a tier 1 group asked for it specifically. The desire was to dispatch two gate guards with supers then be able to swap back to subs and CQB. So the price reflects the gubmint paying for it.
So hella up-front cost for the civvie side to pay for R&D. Great info, thank you!
Sig sure is proud of their prices lately.
They have gotten to the point now where people will buy their products regardless of price. The Sig fan bois are just as bad as any 2000s boy band fans. Overpriced now that they have a loyalty
Their becoming knights armament
They are rolling in government contracts, if they can sell the sight under contract at $4k they're not going to care on the civilian side. Maybe they'll come out with a civilian version for "only" $800
it's really about the only thing they do . lol
Military will buy it . That price will give them a boner.
Sig doing for $4k what a dope sheet taped to your stock does for $0.65.
Hell you could just mount a second RDS and still save $3500.
LOL. It's almost a sign of a declining civilization for a red dot sight to cost $4000.
Outrageous. For that, I want the optic to have tons of memory slots and can autodetect what gun you put it on and will display what bullet your shooting on the hud display.
At that price, I would just build a second upper with it's own optic to go from super to sub. Now like you say when others come out like Holosun and they are 3 to 400 bucks, I am in.
Agree! But just like most things now days it's not intended for the normal wage slaves!
Except then that defeats the whole point of .300BLK which is to make one mediocre rifle that can turn into a mediocre sub gun with nothing but a mag change. This sight really seems like they want to milk the government for all they can get, they're really getting their money's worth after bribing whoever in the DOD to get both their crappy guns adopted and they're only ones dumb enough to drop $4000 on a single red dot sight. This red dot's probably still built by Holosun too so I'd bet it only costs $50 to make.
You can literally just mount 2 micro dot sights in sequence too. Conceptually they should not interfere with each other. Less weight than a whole seperate upper probably similar weight to this sight & $3000-$3500 less cost.
My thoughts exactly! Heck, you can build or buy a second complete rifle with it's own Holosun for less than Sig wants for that thing. I can't believe they'll sell a lot of them to regular people at that ridiculous price.
@1nfamy124 Yes sir are you can merely mark your dot or count the clicks needed for windage and elevation adjustment write it down on a piece of tape.
Thanks, MAC team, for keeping us up to date on the new tech. I learned in the 80s that if you want Sig/Sauer, you will have to pay for it. Appreciate y'all.
You do pay for what you get from sig in my opinion, however, this is insane price gouging. I assume this is for the military which is why the price is so damn high.
That's a really nice $600 sight.
This is the exact same thing as a meprolight tru vision but with more gimmicks into it.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZI thought Mepro MOR Pro was pretty expensive. Not anymore! 😂
At 1k that at least has ir and vis laser covered so someone can just add a SF vampire light and call it a day.
On the other hand this thing is like spending a freaking SCAR20 money on a red dot. I can't even justify that kind of money for a high power scope! 😢
@xtremeracr1046 not for poors...if you pay 4k for that, you're regarded with a T. You can buy a SR15, a T2, and suppress it for almost that
@@xtreme4stringbass
Get your ass back on the street corner, honey. I didn’t tell you you were done.
Yeah, I'd rather not spend 5% of my annual income on an optic. If I made 4k a week, sure why not. Even then, I'd rather have multiple uppers or even multiple guns for different loads
My 300BLK MCX is the most fun to shoot out of my rifles. I assume the 300BLK hate comes from lack of suppressor ownership.
I can’t help but wonder if they charge that price because some idiot in the government is willing to pay it for the military. That or the guys at Sig use extremely expensive beard oil. It’s a very clean looking and robust design. Cool product, not nearly 4K cool though. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us Tim.
This has to be priced this way due to government contracts. No tax payer is going to buy this.
@@funkymonkeylovin oh we'll pay for it, just not directly...
BUT IT'S TAN AND SAYS "SIG"
They can’t sell it for less to consumers, or they’d have to lower the price, otherwise possibly even make refunds to the govt
The government pays much less as a marketing expense. So Sig makes up the losses on the civilian market. Just my theory.
I am w ya on the 300 blackout being my favorite ballistically and fun to shoot. I love reloading for the 300blk...
Sig says this has super special reflector stuff so the enemy cannot see your red dot reflection from the front end.
That gave me an idea for a new video. Test the light emissions out the front of all red dots and holos and illuminated LPVOs and prisms you can get your hand on under night vision.
Is it just fudd lore that an enemy with NVs would be able to see your scope emissions even when "passive" aiming? Or des it make sense that Sig wants to sell their $3k red dot without front reflection?
It's mostly due to the glass angle. Meprolight TruVision is the same thing with less of the gimmicks and "gubbmint price".
And yes it's fuddlore. Do FOF or serve in a branch who do mock combat and you'll come to quickly see that light emissions is not that big of an issue when you can see a human head sticking out like a sore thumb. Which is why I would never understand light caps or killflashes.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZLight emissions unders NOD-s is a different issue. And you can't really see a human head when a person is prone. And most of the light emssions which expose you happen in CQB, atleast with WML-s. A killflash will also give away your firing position, especially at night. This is not even factoring in the blinding effect in your own NVG when firing at night without a killflash, although most SOF units just use supressors which also negates the flash.
I think this is an awesome concept, the capability and flexibility with what you can do with this optic set up is incredible. I cant wait to see what other options will be available in the near future!
Love the video but it’s not justifying a 4k optic. Sig is insane
HOP is gonna have a field day with this thing 😂
😂
Would love to see Primary Arms take the Holosun HS503G with the ACSS red dot reticle and add a independently zeroable green dot to it.
I love that sight and it's crazy that more people don't know about it
No biggie
I have a Vortex Viper 1-6 on my Sig MCX 300blackout. The point of impact for my super sonics is the dot....and it just so happens to have worked out that the bottom of the chevron is the POI for the 220 grain subs. It has worked very well for me for years.
Rolex should come out with a red dot powered by rifle movement
You know, being a little bit if a watch guy, I was thinking "what did they put a rechargeable battery in there and a rotor like on an automatic watch to keep it charged when you're moving? 😂
Yesssss!!! An automatic automatic? 🤔
At that price I’d unironically rather just put 2 red dots on the top rail lol
That price is freaking crazy!!!
IT'S TAN THOUGH! AND IT SAYS "SIG"
People love massively over paying for poor quality control, psa is atleast cheap with its bad qc
Its not Sig’s fault if they wanted to return to their Swiss roots by being outrageously complicated and expensive 😅
Thats a fancy Holosun, even has all the same UI to adjust the dots! Cool to see them working together and charging 4k for something "Made in the USA"
Sig reminds me of Heckler and Koch, good products with exorbitant pricing because their intended customer is the military/LE who are used to overpaying for things since they aren't spending their own money. 💸💸💸
two things about the military/LE. It´s cheaper to buy good stuff that can take a beating. I don´t know what the aimpoint on My H&K G3 costed the govrement. but if they could have got away with buying something cheaper. I am shure they would have. the second thing the govrement buys a lot and don´t pay retail price. // former POG.
Whenever the ads for modern gun school come up and I see the MGS, I just think of Michael Gary Scott every time without fail… I can’t unsee it now 👀
Sig is playing the market high but won’t sell, they will have to re-release at a reasonable cost (~$1,200), all red dot brands will eat a big one because no red dot is worth the $900 they want now because they’re just a dot.
I believe they will release a lower priced alternative down the road, like you I don't see a lot of these being sold outside of military circles, even LEO's don't have that kind of scratch.
@@Militaryarmschannel maybe this will force change the optics market needs! I like dots but they lack utility at their current prices
The secret is these aren’t for us. It’s for military orgs with deep pockets and no sense
@@PullingRugswhat type of utility?
Wilcox boss sight has been out offering the sub/super zero with a manual flip like a spectre DR to switch between them, similarly prices and includes a host of IR lasers and illumination all in the same housing
Woah... $3900? Wouldn't it just make more sense to have 2 lightweight sights (T2 or the like) with the offset being subs?
The price is near thermal sight realm, I just don't see the justification for the price besides "First in Best Dressed"
Yep
Saving multiple zeros for different loads and configurations has been a concept I’ve had for many years. I don’t have the knowledge to do it myself, but I’m glad someone finally did.
Impressive. Very nice. Let's see Vortex's implementation of this technology.
Thanks for the detailed review on this VERY advanced sight. I WANT ONE. But until I hit big on POWERBALL I'll stay with my HOLOSUN AEMS on my 9 mm RUGER PC chassis carbine. Configureable reticle, NV compatable settings, solar panel, lens covers, very rugged (see Sage Dynamics' review on YT) and, best of all, reasonably priced. In fact CURENTLY (Jan. 2024) the AEMS may be the closest rd dot to the ROMEO 9T.
I don't see why it costs so much... generally LED tech is much cheaper to make than holo/laser sights from what I understand. I have several EOTechs, and while they are a little spendy this Sig 9T just seems ridiculous. You can get thermal sights for cheaper, several of which let you save multiple zeroing points for different rifles or even like in your case different ammo types or weapon configurations.
Really for $3900 I'd expect way more features, like an integrated magnifier that can pop down out of the line of sight. And even with that feature I'd not expect more than $2500 for something like this. I know it is brand new, and perhaps the price will come down a lot after a year - but yeah I can't see how anyone can really justify this optic unless money is just not a limitation for them.
It all boils down to the incredible complexities of the internal lensing systems for two dots within the confines of a rather conventionally sized housing. As the tech matures and manufacturing of such tech streamlines you'll see competitive products coming to market at a lower cost. Sig may even offer a reduced cost sight. This one has every feature they could pack in there. It could also be that a military tender required all of the functionality and durability built into the sight, as we all know Uncle Sugar just loves spending our tax dollars and sending manufacturings on wild goose chases like the OICW program.
It’s not the complexity of the sight, it’s the fact that sig is selling these to the military at a certain price per unit And they can’t legally or ethically sell them cheaper to civilians
@@Militaryarmschannelyeah, I would like a much cheaper version with just that housing and one reticle
@@ayarzeev8237 that’s called a red dot
@@DKsupreme69420 probably because it is a red dot. I like how it looks which is what I was referring to
You'll still hear Ken Hackathorne saying red dots arent necessary. Reminds me of the old timers still talking about carrying revolvers because they dont jam.
Lol for the price you can just have two of the same guns with different loadings
Pretty cool. Love the looks/design. It has features that fixes problems that I don’t have. I’m a bit more simple. Plain red dot, if I do shoot suppressed it won’t shift too much that Kentucky windage on the fly can’t fix.
Ive been super existed about this sight but sadly i see it floping just because the price is too high. Really makes it accessible to a handful of groups and people with bottomless pockets. I was ready to get one for my 300 blk until that price
That's funny, I also was wanting to put this on a 300 blk build I'm planning on making. Then I saw the price. LOL
5:15 Mark is where he gets to why it’s a game changer.
For a red dot that's going to be over $4k once sales tax is added on you would think Sig would at least give you a nice case rather than a cardboard box! Awesome optic just about $3.5k over my price range.
Exactly, and when they discontinue it and it breaks you’ll have to throw it away.
Who is putting their optic in a case? My Eotech cases go in the trash half the time.
@@calebfuller9591 For 4k, I would like the option to repurpose the case at least.
Also just added security for shipping… Because you know, nothing ever gets damaged during shipping.
@@calebfuller9591 I had a trijicon MRO I had to send back for warranty repair a couple of years ago. It was nice just to throw it back in the case it came in to send it back. I keep most of my optic boxes for this very reason. It also will sell better if you have the original case and paperwork to go with it if you ever decide down the road to put it up for sale.
WOW! It is a GREAT design and I was thinking it would be double the price of an Eotech, but $3,899!!!!! That is WAY out of my price range! It should give you a complimentary reach around for that price! Sig is probably marketing this to Military and LEO.
still cheaper than a wilcox Boss which has slaved reticles rather than independent.
@@jamesgarrison5546 I'm sorry. Wilcox is out of my vocabulary. I drink sweet tea and drive a pickup truck not Perrier sparkling water and an electric Tesla. I only know 2 private citizens that own anything Wilcox branded. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have one but out of my price range as well as most blue collar workers.
Incredible review, I see forgotten weapons mention this a while ago but had forgotten about it. That being said $3899 is ludicrous!!! I am an Sig fan but even this is too much. I’ll just go with the lpvo and offset red dot on my 300 build. I’m not shooting subs past 50 anyway and you can make a light weight enough build to compensate for the little extra weight of the lpvo combo. We need the budget companies to hurry up and come out with similar products to lower the price of this.
Outstanding!!! Only have to wait a year for the Holosun affordable copy.
well this will never be out of stock. for the price it should also have green/ir laser, and laser range finder .
Dude. For this price it should automatically recognize when you've loaded supers or subs. Lol.
If it comes with an integrated can opener and light saber, I’ll probably buy it.
Just ran across your channel. Was intrigued by your studio/shoot house. Have you ever done a video showing the layout of the place? Would love to see more of how it's laid out.
I agree with everything you said in the video. A few years ago I made 2 AR pistols: one for supers and one for subs. I got one 4 power with a reticle for either 300 BO or AK 47s that is a prism scope instead of a RDS. And I equiped the other gun with a 1 x 6 LPVO that had a reticle for either 300 BO or an AK 47 round. I put the the LPVO on my gun for supers and the 4X prism scooe on my gun for subs. For a reasonable amount of cash it solved the problem of different points of impact. I am retired and live off the check that uncle Sam sends each month so there is no way I could afford such an expensive scope. The idea is good and if I live long enough maybe I will see the cost come down. For now I expect only the military, with theur unlimited budgets, to buy these scopes.
As many have already pointed out…this is an insane price for literally 1 extra feature. With micro prisms and piggy back / offset micro rds the same thing is accomplished at a fraction of the cost. If sig had introduced this in an $800 sight maybe…but there is nothing new hear except an extra dot. Lets see if Holosun gets it right.
Nice box, see where they get the price from 🤣
I have a 300 blackout EOTech that’s been out for about 10 years that has two dots in it. Sure you can’t independently adjust the 2 dots but for 100 yards and in which is what 300 blackout is meant for it is right on the money zero it with supers or subs and the dots match up. You can get one of these for 500 bucks.
$3899, and it comes in a cardboard box. Trijicon comes in a very nice Pelican style case for 1/5 the price. The technology is very cool. Just give it a couple of years, and the price will more than likely come down. Great content Tim. Looking forward to your Shotshow coverage. Always Faithful, Always Forward. Aaron Beaulieu
Are you saying you would rather pay a flat $4k and have a REALLY nice box you'll throw in the closet (or throw away) after you open it? I'll take the cardboard box. 😃
@@MilitaryarmschannelFirst of all, you know DAMN WELL they could add in a nicer box and just shave a little off their 1000% profit margin. Second of all, if you have 3900$ for a red dot, you probably have 4000$ for a red dot
@@CorgiEnjoyer The box issue for guns has always made me laugh because half the market will complain and the other half will praise it/not care. But an optic? What do you need a case for an optic for? I have several ACOGs and a few MROs and those nice fancy cases have been sitting in a closet unused since I bought them. I understand this SIG is RIDICULOUSLY overpriced and they could thow in a case but seriously, are you going to take it off of your gun and store it when you aren't shooting? More than likely it will be attached to one gun or another at all times. Also this thing has military contract written all over it, they probably prefer that it comes in a recyclable throw away box vs a bulky plastic shell.
Tim, that is not at all what I am saying. However I am saying that for $3899, SIG could throw in even an off branded Pelican style case at no additional cost to SIG. I agree that most likely the optic would be mounted, and the case would basically become closet fodder. The Pelican style cases are useful for so many other things when going to the range. The optic technology is very cool and I think it will be heavily copied by others. Awesome content. Always Faithful, Always Forward.
Aaron Beaulieu @Militaryarmschannel
I dont think it will for this optic. The tech will carry over to cheaper stuff, but this will stay high so sig can offer kickbacks to whatever requisitioning officer orders them for a whole plattoon.
Ahhhh, the latest & greatest from MIM!
Oops - I meant SIG - sorry!
Hi Ron!
That is the perfect rifle / optic set up.
I like the idea, and look forward to competition driving down price. Because at that price, I'd rather just purchase & setup an offset dot coupled with my main dot to zero one for super and another for subs. Or... just do what I do now and have witness marks on my turrets, one for supers and one for subs.
Yeah, that’s a damn fine setup you got there.
I run two optics in conjunction with one another for this exact purpose. People always thought I was an idiot and while I am an idiot, I at least had the right idea with separately adjustable dots for supers and subs.
Yes the price is high, but this is something we've all wanted and Sig took the leap to make it. Yes other manufacturers will follow with cheaper options. But they wouldn't unless someone took the first leap.
If it had an IR Laser Aiming Module, range finder and automatic Ballistic Calculator I would consider paying that price. Until then I'll use my Eotech Exps 3
You forgot about the Wilcox Boss, it has a similar feature with a throw lever that changes the zero.
I can understand to a degree why the pricepoint is where it's at. It def has a lot of technology packed into it. The glass and the lasers used to help people with astigmatism to be able to see the dots/reticle more easily is a big deal. But using titanium and the battery life is also pretty awesome. I'm going to start a gofundme to get one of these though lol.
We just need a $4000 magnifier to go with it. Please bless us with the complete package Sig!
Eotech would be my preference, holographic sights don't have the battery life of a reddot, but the magnifier does not magnify the reticle. Don't know what this is, but if it is a 3 MOA dot it would be 9 MOA with a 3x magnifier. Your sarcasm is not lost on me :)
The firearms version of 'The Juice is not Worth the Squeeze'.
I will just use my Eotech for now
It was $$$ too and I love it!!!!!
This actually isn’t the first optic with 300blk dual zero system. The 2018 Wilcox BOSS and newer 2022 generation BOSS XE are both designed with sub and super 300blk reticle zeros, toggled by a switch.
They are at a similar price point around 4K+ but with the BOSS you also get IR and Vis lasers integrated so you don’t need to purchase a LAM/PEQ
Ive never used a red dot. Ive put one on one of my rifles, but havent shot it yet. Never had a problem useing iron sights and scopes.
Wow, that red dot is 10x the price of my first car in 1993. I bet in 30 years, the Sig will at least still be running. 😁
Main red dot mounted on top zeroed to supes with a mini red-dot on a 45 degree offset zeroed to subs. Just roll to the 45 for the close in work.
I can't wait for holosun to make a $1k version.
Wow, that is really cool! That is also beyond stupid expensive. I love the features, the idea of $4000 for something with just a red dot, even two of them, is just beyond my imagination. Can I a least have a chevron and some BDC dots for that price? I mean, the cool just does not even remotely outweigh the WTF factor. Hopefully you are right and merely making it will convince others to try to add similar functionally for something less than the price of an entire fully decked out Daniel Defense rifle. I mean, just WOW!
That is astoundingly expensive for such a small use case. I was honestly expecting it had a thermal imaging device built in somehow. Do the two reticles not get close enough that they block your target at range? I suspect they are pricing it knowing they’ll sell so few units and have to cover the development costs.
Thanks, but I'll wait until Holosun/Primary Arms makes ones for an eight of the price.
I can't wait until someone else comes out with an affordable optic with the same capabilities. That is very slick!
The common discount of 10% for first responders, etc., accounts for almost the entice price of other red dots. Two dots is great, but maybe $700 great, not $4K.
I'll wait for the Holosun version
Respect
Sig Romeo 5 is $125.00 add a $100 m-lock green dot laser. Green dot is for subs and red dot is supers. Best part is you can see both at the same time through the Red Dot sight. You're welcome!
This is the first time i will say that Sig is absolutely insane. 4k for a red dot? No one in the right mind would think it was worth that price. Especially when you can spend way less money to do the things this red dot is gimmicked with individually. Honestly, the Spear LT was barely worth the expense for me when i got mine and i already had multiple Virtus and Rattler rifles that are not really any different.
I’d love to see EOTech make a version of exps 3-4 with the dots all individually zerosble
Cool sight. LIke you said, it puts the ball in Holosun, Eotec and Primary Arms Court. Primary arms already has cool reticles. Trijicon's RCR is practically bullet proof. They could update the new RCR to 2 dots. I bet Holosun will have a 2 dot system in less than 2 years. Won't have all the wizardry, but will be affordable. Doesn't Eotec already have a 2 dot reticle? But the dots are not independently adjustable?
The LMT MWS with its monolithic upper allows you to quickly change barrels to different. 308 based cartridges. Or different barrel lengths. The SCAR costs a lot more with less flexibility. An MWS in 5.56 case sizes would be cool also. Why the MWS hasn't taken off isna mystery to me.
Sig has gone crazy for sure.
I agree, this is a cool unit. I'm not offended by the price, good new stuff usually costs a lot.
Holy Fook, 4K!! I know you started the video off with it's expensive, but I was expecting maybe $1500
The Mepro foresight lets you load different reticle and adjust zero from a profile for a lot less. A heck of a lot less.
I've just gotten lucky that both builds that I use supers and subs in, that I was able to zero the same sight at "two" different ranges with the same gun.
Basically, my supers and zeroed at 100, the subs hit that spot at 50 yards.
Military Arms Channel: This is the best red dot ever!
Comments Section: KILL THE PRICE TAG! KILL THE PRICE TAG! KILL THE PRICE TAG!
I think the mepro foresight was ahead of its time. I could see it becoming popular now if the trend changes to something like the 9T
I see this kicking out the Eotech from the Military contracts, especially for Special Forces & Seal Teams!
Can’t wait to see Sage
Dynamics get ahold of one of these…
Most innovative sight, Holosun Thermal Red Dot (DMS-TH), Use day or night, thermal overlay or just clear glass modes, and no Zoom or giant thermal scope required.
That's innovation.
For $3800, I would want magnification like an Elcan (1-4x or 1-6x) and a few more features. $3800 for a red dot is nuts. Likewise, if you are shooting .300 black out subsonics beyond 100 yards, you must be having a very bad day.
Wilcox BossXe does the same thing and gives you a laser/illuminator package for about $300 more.
Wow that is EXPENNNNSIIIVVE.
That is a Very Cool Sight is going to be going to be mostly purchased by Elite Units of the Military like Delta, Seal Team 6 and certain squads of the British, Australian and New Zealand SAS plus people that have more money invested in their Gucci Rifles but have no idea how to use them. I will give it 9-12 months before Holosun has a Sight with Similar Features without the high price.
Funny to hear "laser sharp" when describing the lack of speckle compared to an EOTech, where the speckle is because it actually uses a laser
They’ve jumped the shark with that price tag.
Are you sure that isn’t the price for the whole package with the optic, MCX, and the suppressor?
You can do the same with the Aimpoint Comp M5B and included custom ballistic turret for a quarter of the price, and have been able to since 2021
Holopoint should leap frog them, and make a red dot with memory. That can save zeros, and then select between them. So you can use different rounds, or different guns. But then charge 399.00 for it.
My Eotech damn near does the same thing. It has 2 dots for subs and super. You can't adjust them separate but it's very close out to 100. And also it was only 500 bucks.