Rich Eierstedt moved in across the street from my family in 1977 during his brief ride with HD. He said these bikes were pretty fast for a few laps and then the engines would seize. The only bonus was Harley paid him cash to race these. Thank you for mentioning Rich in this presentation.
In 1978 i was in the 10th grade in high school. Saw the Harley MX250 race in the expert class at Oak Hill MX Park out pass Decatur Texas. Think it might have been the factory guys out testing it. It took first place. It rocketed away from the field and the only one that could get close to them was a guy on an RM250. The Harley would leave it in the straight sections and the RM would close up some in the tight stuff. The Harley still won by a good margin over second place. Also saw one in a dealership that was for sale in Ft.Worth Texas in a dealership just down the way from Ridgemar Mall
I restored two for a museum. One like new, the other patinad(sp?). Both could have fired right up if fuel were added. Definitely tuned for high rpm . 😊
I raced against one once. The guy was a good rider and would pass me in the corners and I blew by him on the straights on my RM 250C2. Maybe it was an advantage of the suspension and I only weighed 135 pounds.
The 2 most influential failures in the history of MX were created by policy that is not free enterprise. 1) The 1986 FIM (Not AMA), production rule that stopped factory bike development in the USA (cause we won the MXofN 5 times in a row), which tripled the cost of a bike in 5 short years, marking the start of market share decline. 2) The 4-stroke engine forced on the industry by a dictatorship called the EPA. Those are the 2 biggest failures by far, in the history of MX.
Great video. Everything you guys put together is top notch. I have been following motocross since 1977. Pro nationals, super cross, Trans/USA, motocross of nations The whole deal. But I still love hearing about all my heroes from the past. Great mod in keeping it all alive. Greetings from America. God love ya’s.
It’s funny you made this video about this bike, my family has a bit of a history with Harley’s. My grandparents and a better part of my dad’s side of the family have owned Harley’s at one point or another. My uncle had an epic yellow one with massive Ape Hanger bars (he’s also got a history with hot rod fabrication and chopper fabrication too)
Yea but Harley faild...the drug head addicts there sons were. They ran the BUSINESS into the ground... Watch history channels...Harley & David weren't about cruising. They were o About speed and power. And winning races..I I like to see them build one know ..but since Kawasaki owns Harley. They would just change give you a KX.
You forgot about the Sprint 250 and Sprint ERS 350 and the Baja 100 all of these models were raced in the late 60s at flattrack desert races and scrambles that later became motocross
And we're very fast and in fact Mert Lawill was shown at the beginning of the movie 🎦 On Any Sunday flattracking one on his grand championship chase it the one with the air filter sticking out the front Check it out
And short track was the 250 Sprint first and then the engine out of the motocross bikes were ported run by Jay Springsteen for most of his runs for the Grand National championship for the AMA for years and most Harley Davidson teams
The first MX race I attended was at Wapella Illinois in 1978 to watch my cousin race 125B. I can still recall watching a Harley MX in the 250 class, and it was at the tail end of the pack. About a year ago a great article on a lost factory H-D MX bike was in the AMA magazine.
For a rare ride, try a '94+ CZ125. Super hard to find here, it was a moderized 125 compared to the other bikes they sold that were developed in the very early '70s.
Man, look at it smoke. I bet it still has the stock jetting (Were and are, always shipped rich for new 2-strokes with a carb), but it sounds pretty good. What a treat. :)
Excellent job as usual and you keep raising the bar. I have to add my 2 cents. I remember these being advertised in the magazines, but I don’t remember seeing 1 in person. Sooo, I went to MXA to get fast refresh. MXA mentions a MX track in Omaha, Nebraska. I lived in Omaha at that time and I don’t remember a MX track in the nearby area. There was a MX track about 30-40 miles north of Omaha by the village of Herman, Nebraska, in the mid, late 70’s. I raced there at least once. That track also hosted a Trans-AMA or a Trans-National or whatever they were called back then.I was a spectator at 2 events. I got to see Roger Decoster kick some a$$. He was so smooth and line selection were next level. I recently read that the HD was at the starting line at a MX or SX and failed to start. I ran out of time doing the research on that. It may have been in RacerX. As for the legacy of HD, IMO it questionable. I give HD credit for rebuilding after the AMF failure. However, HD was being outsold in the heavyweight motorcycle market in the early 80’s by the Japanese. In 20 words or less the Japanese created a superior and more dependable motorcycle at a better price. So in order to create a more ‘level playing field’, president Reagan at HD’a urging put a tariff on all Japanese bikes over 750cc. The tariff was in effect from 1983 to 1988. Isn’t it odd that at Daytona 1988/1989 HD introduced a prototype named the ‘Fatboy’. Please remember the atomic bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were named Fat Boy’ and ‘Little Man’. Of course the marketing gurus at HD deny it had anything to do with the Japanese, but the bikes looks. Uhhh huhhh. You can make your own decision. I have presented only facts and documented history.
Another superb historical analysis!! Your real good on not only in front of camera, but your research per motorcycle is commendable, dig deep.. moreover going to the length to interview Rex was, again, commendable!! He said facts I had no idea on..
I had a 1975 SX 250 a few years back. I found the power very acceptable compared to others in it's class better than most of the enduro equals of it's day!
Great story on the Harley MX. Kind of reminds me of the can am MX5 but they were much more refined and successful. In addition to your story about the road racing success for HD, Canadian Pascal Picotte raced the VR1000 Harley Davidson from 1998 to 2000 with great results.
that was a great watch i never knew HD had tried there hand on dirtbikes i thought the interview with the old works rider really added to the story as well. good effort
Great job this video took me back to when I was 13 years old in 1978 living in USA all my friends were riding Yamaha,Suzuki or Honda and a buddy told me that Harley Davidson had made a motorcross bike to compete with the RM ,YZ, CR We all thought it would be junk . I didn’t know Rocket Rick statin raced that bike Wow that bike weighed 250lbs man he was a strong rider and very good. I remember my best friend had a 1974 19:44 Push 175 enduro that was 250lbs. Thanks for the memories. Keep up with your great videos buddy
Along about the same time Harley put out their MX bike they were dominating the flat track series of racing. The XR 750 was unbeatable on the mile tracks.
Neat! I almost bought a Harley Davidson MT350 from an army auction. To do the whole scrambler thing. But decided it's not worth all the trouble for finding parts, just for the tiny Harley badge it had.
Great vidoe guys cant believe the detail you go into what a time for motorcross development the 70s were . Bit of a new comer to the channel but once owned a 1979 EMC 250 sold it for next to nothing when I moved from the UK would love to here the history of those bikes
I had the Cycle World mag test from 78 on that thing tornado got it. They said it was like the 78/79 CR Honda high rpm powerband delivery not much before.
Fantastic. Your videos are amazing. I follow you from italy. Yow have many followers here too. We all are not english mother tongue, but you speak so clear that is easy to follow. Compliments and go on
I owned one back in around 1980-1 my Dad bought it at a car auction and brought it home and I bought from him. Right off the bat You had to pull it to start it, no damn kick start. Once I found someone to pull me I discovered a rod knock. Pulled it apart to find crank pin and rod bearing out. Took crank in to a crank shaft and balance shop to press out pin and press in new on and balance . Also ordered new piston and ring while apart to find there was different color code pitons and even back then it took me along time for dealer to special order that piston. All in all after the long repair process I finally got it running and was so disappointed in it , it totally like this video stated was dead in bottom end and not that lively at mid range, you literally had to run wide open to find life in it. And when attempting to climb hills with it , if you didn’t open it wide open it would bog out with no recovery and there you were dead and laying it down on the ground and after that you would have to pull start it again because no damn kick start. Never understood if in competition they weren’t aloud a kicker or what the hell the deal was. Before this bike I owned a 75 Harley SX -250 enduro that I road to school for a couple yrs to high school. That actually was a pretty decent bike and quite dependable and my brother bought a brand new red 1978 SX-250 in 78 actually they were attractive looking bikes with same taillight as their big road bikes. But getting back to the MX deal , I never was so disappointed as I was with the end results of that investment. I was expecting to be riding wheelies with it and all I got out of it was a boggy dog down at bottom end. Sold it couple yrs later to someone else and was happy to see it gone. But it was a cool looking bike that I had high hopes for . I always thought till now 40 some yrs later that timing was off or something wasn’t right on my end but now herring this info I now know it was the desighn flaw. Another good lesson for me and to you out there don’t buy a race machine if you want a versital riding machine. Also this bike was tall and that even made it worse with no kick stand and dead bottom end. I knew back then these things were rare because I never ever seen another one since.
Great video. I was a Cagiva Dealer starting in 1985 and the 125 was a great bike. Support from Italy sucked, as it does with every product they export.
This Aermacchi/H-D motor design soldiered on for many more years. First as a few street, mx and enduro models for Cagiva. Then, as a trials motor for Ignacio Bulto's Merlin trials bikes...The ball and ramp clutch was a bear to operate but Cagiva finally redesigned the actuator and clutch cover to the more standard type lever and rod that most bikes use.
What's behind that grey coloured cover right behind the engine sprocket on 17:06? Makes me think of where Japanese light-weight two-strokes would protect their oil mixture pump from catching dirt off the chain?
That was an impossible find thats for sure sweet looking bike though .Its defo been an awsome year with all the 2stroke content you have brought to the channel and long may it continue, chers guys
I worked in a local speed shop outside San diego and had the privilege to test ride and tune the Harley Marty rode at the LA coliseum in 1978. I was only like 17 at the time and we were experimenting with different ported cylinders to squeeze some more performance out of her. When we finally got what we were looking for, Marty rode practice on race day said bike never ran better. Preparing for the nights event the mechanic was checking over the bike and overtightend a triple clamp pinch bolt and broke the triple clamp with no spare. Marty missed that race, but I always wondered how he would have done. That Boy could ride!
So when this bike came out, I was riding a Hodaka SL250 as a dual purpose commuter and trail bike. I really wanted a more dedicated trail bike and looked hard at the Harley 250. Loved the layout. It was easy to get up on the tank to plant the front end, and when it hit it would haul the mail just fine. 2 drawbacks: you could not get it registered as a street bike, and getting parts was iffy. Oh yeah, and the dealers were not cutting the prices. So we ended up with a Bultaco Frontera and an Ossa Super Pioneer - both got past DMV and got plates so you could ride back to camp on a road. Both were cheaper and the Ossa was so light you could pick it by yourself (215 # dry). Same issues with Can-Am. Good bikes, but for the rich guys ... 🙃
A friend of mine had one of these. It was about 1986. I first thought that the belt on the tank was his way of keeping it on the bike. The bike was well aged by this time but ran well enough to do the kind of riding we did at the time. All of our stuff was cobbled together from long abused machines. A new plug was a luxury. Was a great time looking back on it. Especially the Ice racing. We didn't have a clue, but we tried.
i had a 1972 AMF 250 on off back in the 80s, it was great until the piston cracked. couldn't get a replacement at the time, then our barn burned down. so gone lol
I really like your video's on old MX bikes. Have you thought about doing one on the AJS Stormer? I had one, a 250 and it came in kit form to avoid tax. It was a great bike.
The quality and content of the 999Lazer videos is really quite superb, every bit as good as some bbc or Channel 4 program which has had shed loads of money wasted on them. Great work 999lazer but it would be great if you could find the very rare 1977/78 British Rival 125cc motocross bike "l'd love to see one on your show".
There’s a guy who brings multiple HD 250 bikes to Unadilla for the Mx rewind event every year. They made a 100cc as well and there’s a couple of those that show up too
Interesting machine! I believe there was 1 in NL in the 78 season ridden in the amateur leage. Technically seen the tank strap was known from CZ, the Akront rims were also on Maicos and the rear shocks with external reservoirs were also to be obtained from Corte&Cosso, Hulco, also Öhlins and WP. Please keep the rare birds of paradise coming? I love to see those rareties from my teen years when I learned so much about technique and people. Regards and have a merry christmas and a happy new year, T🐻 from NL.
Great history lesson Max. Now Imma tell you the story from the inside of a regular guy who was a top journalist in the US for a time. FACT: Rex Staten was a Pro boxer who gravitated towards motocross, thank God for that. In an ironic twist at the 500cc USGP at Carlsbad one of your countrymen, Vic Allen i believe, caused Rex to crash heavily in a turn. Rocket Rex got up like an angry bull in Pamplona, Spain and PUNCHED this dude right through the helmet.🤯👀 Bro wobbled backward and i think only the adrenaline kept him conscious. NOBODY screwed with Rex Staten after that punch was aired on ABC TVs Wide World of Sport. MX came on TV ONCE a year, you young'uns can't imagine the waiting. Announcer: 'Rex, you can't do that on TV.' Rex: 'Hold my beer.' FACT: I was the FIRST PERSON in New York State to buy a Cagiva. 1985 WMX125. It was a random goof running into John and Sal, 2 Italian American brothers who ran a Harley Davidson repair and customization shop in New Rochelle, New York called Motorcycle Center at the International Motorcycle Show in NYC. I jokingly said to John, "Hey, you're Italian. Why don't you get one of these bikes, the design looks pretty good. Plus they won the world championship." To my HORROR and DELIGHT, 3 months later John calls me and says 'the bike is here, when do you want to pick it up?' 👀🤯 I couldn't believe he ACTUALLY got one. It was a badge of honor when he said this will possibly be the first one sold in America but DEFINITELY the first one sold in the state of New York. That's an honor I STILL carry proudly. * addendum to the Cagiva story. Years after when I'd risen up to the 250cc class i was wearing my Cagiva racer jersey after picking up some parts from my Kawie racing dealer, Hudson Valley Motorcycles, and decided to stop by their race counterpart shop for those who rode Yamahas. Eric and Dorothy Guenkel were the owners of Hunter Motorcycles. We didn't have the Internet like we do today and news traveled slowly. As i popped into the shop in Thornwood, NY, i froze. 😮 There standing 30 feet away from me was newly crowned World Champion PEKKA VEKH9NEN 😁 While I'm stuck in place at the shock of seeing him, he was equally bug eyed to see a guy wearing his replica Cagiva jersey. As he damn near ran to me I snapped out of it and stuck my hand out. I didn't know he had recently signed with Yamaha to race the 250cc Grand Prix series. The Unadilla round was the next time I'd see him but not up close and personal like i did that night. Yup, i was fan boying all over the place. 😅 FACTS: The Castiglione Brothers were not only seriously RICH. they were seriously IN LOVE with motorcycles. When Husqvarna tried to end itself, they bought the company, and the engineers, and had them modify the Cagivas so as Cagiva was going out as a MX brand the legendary Husky brand was given new life. KTM did a similar thing recently but this was decades ago. They also saved the legendary Ducati road bike brand and look at Ducati today, WINNING MotoGP races and championships as often as 3 year old kids spill milk at breakfast. FACT: I believe Dutchman Davey Strijbos (STRYboze) was the first 125 Champ to win on the Cagiva with Finn Pekka Vekhonen (the H is silent accent on VEKK,o,nen) winning the 2nd straight title for them. FACT: Italian 125 specialist, Corrado Madii (koRAHdoh modDEE) almost caused a triple crown moment but broke his leg in practice at the final 125 cc GP. Read my article below. 🫶🏾 😎 He would've been the FIRST Italian World Moto-cross Champion. 😮 Cagiva would've been the FIRST Italian company to win a world motocross title.😮 Cagiva would've been the FIRST company to win the World Championship in their first effort.😮 FACT: In America, AMF was a jack of all trades corporation, a think tank of professional money makers who knew little about the companies under it's umbrella. There were AMF bowling alleys EVERYWHERE. Great for businesses when you're also the main maker of bowling balls, bowling shoes etc. They advertised on TV a LOT and actually played a big part in getting Americans off the couch and out into the world to get active. They made tennis racket, tennis balls, tennis shoes etc. But their lack of a focused direction became their undoing. You can't be everything to sell to everyone...you know how that ended. Like KTM, my brand since 2003, other companies went into specific niches of AMF's markets and became BETTER than AMF at everything they sold. No king reigns forever. Fact: The tracks here in. D34, MSC, Metropolitan Sports Committee were relatively tight and didn't have a lot of flowing sections, they catered to tighter turning Japanese bikes so i didn't do well at my local races as I'd hoped. The Cagiva was a spectacularly built machine, lots of high end parts and terrific engineering. But there was zero testing on typical American tracks. I was SHOCKED when i went to a fast, wide open sand track in the LISC, Long Island Sports Committee. It was like the Cagiva WMX125 WOKE UP. I literally felt as if i could let go one hand of the bars at the top of 4th gear and the bike would've went dead straight 🤯👀🤔 My little rebel revver was clearly a Euro GP kind of machine. I got a rocket start, inside the top 3 but unfamiliarity with the tracks, (it wasn't as well laid out and marked as MSC tracks) I missed a turn and had to turn around. No bueno on the race result but that bike had shown me it's true potential. On aGP type track it would've been an incredible handler and the mid to upper powerband was best suited to faster tracks, not the stop and go semi-SX tracks we had here. FACTS: The elephant which is the Cagiva symbol is really a good luck charm in Italy. Like a 4 leaf clover is to the Irish. Elephants don't represent fast and agile, and i think this could've played a part in Cagiva not getting the market penetration such a great dirt bike should've given them. The name Cagiva is an acronym of the brothers names and the town the factory was located. CAstiglioni, GIovanni VArese. CA,GI,VA Note: KTM did the same K,ronreif T,runkenpolz M,attighofen, K and T are the cofounders, M is the little town in Austria where they were founded. Even further side note. The ///AMG performance car company did the same. A,uffrect M,elchior G,robenspach A and M were two Mercedes engineers who moonlighted hopping up customers Mercedes cars. They left the company when business took off. Grobenspach is the town their initial garage was located in. ** here's the blast from that past. Enjoy the read** "ALMOST FAMOUS" cybermotorcycle.com/articles/almost-famous.htm 🎉❤
Thanks for the history lesson:) There's some great facts right there. Not sure if you've seen this or not, but you might enjoy it, I actually got my hands on a 85 Cagiva to do a test with. Here's the video link th-cam.com/video/TXWe2kEcPxs/w-d-xo.html Cheers Max
I saw those Harley MX'ers at the Herman Nebraska National in 1978. I can't remember exactly but I think the riders were Don Kudalski and Marty Tripes. It was cool to see them in the pits. They didn't win that day. The victory went to Bob Hannah as he schooled the rest of the pros on his 1978 OW26 Factory Yamaha.
When Harley was owned by AMF, it was a terrible time for them. It is amazing that they were able to claw their way back to profitability after the devastation wreaked by AMF. Regarding this 250: it came along at a time when there already existed plenty of bikes to choose from. Absent outstanding performance and/or super low price, it didn't stand a chance.
It was a tough looking bike at the time. A older neighbor of mine had one, and I remember him jump out of a ditch with it. Must have been at least a 10' jump!!! Coolest thing I ever personally saw in my whole 14 year old life. :)
Splendid job. The mx250 very cool time piece. I'm not really a Harley person at all. I do however respect their history. My dad had an Indian Chief back in the day. I prefer the dirt and the smell of fine 2t gas.
Cannondale was a bigger failure. Harley dealers wanted nothing to do with motocross customers.that did not help either. They did have alot of success in the desert with the baja 100 the early 1970's. Dakar, Isde, and Baja champion Larry Roeseler was one of the racers. I believe there is a baja 100 in the lobby at pro circuit.
That's what confused me about the statement that Harley Davidson only got into the 2 stroke biz in 1975. The Baja 100 was built in, what, 1969-70? It was also successful in desert racing.
I raced one for the Harley dealership in Las Cruces, NM in 78. I stepped off a Yamaha YZ to ride the Harley. the bike was difficult to ride compared to the Yamaha. It shifted poorly and I was forced to use the clutch for most shifts. Low end torque was poor so I had to clutch it a lot coming out of the corners. I had to change my riding style a lot in order to be competitive. In 76 and 77 I won more than half the races and finished in the top 5 most of the others but after changing to the Harley, I never did well. The bike was a little underpowered and didn't handle as well and most of the other bikes of the day. I remember riding it hard for less than perfect results. They are rare now and I wish I had the bike only because if it's rarity.
my best friend had one in the early 80s, they were underpowered and a nightmare to ride. The clutch was horrible. they did catwalk quite well. his was a nice blue colour.
Max Iam building a 1983 Yamaha it 490 at the moment not far from finishing it wants I’ve run it in your welcome to test ride it for your channel trouble is I live in Cornwall 👍
Harley's racing history, a few road race championships in Europe. Nice, but check out American flat track racing. It may be the biggest manufacture domination in the history of motorcycle racing.
8:24 So much for Honda making the first dirt bike with a "low boy pipe" in 1988. But DKW did not lower the gas tank that made the Honda feel lighter than the rest.
Oh I forgot to mention how about doing a Rokon MX or RT 340. Probably won’t find one in the UK though. But you never know some collector might have one tucked away.
You could find those huge rear sprockets also on Montesa MX-bikes of that era. It's just those huge sprockets that requiered a special kind of chain guiding system and it's weird indeed why they didn't just uphold a different primary gear setting (crankshaft to clutch basket) to make things a lot easier and to save some weight back there. Bigger sprocket on the back means putting a longer (= heavier) chain in there along with other extra mechanical stuff (=extra weight again).
The large rear sprocket is an indicator that the transmission gears are not strong enough to stand up to the hp of the motor. By spinning the transmission shafts very fast there is less stress on the individual gear teeth. Maico used this same strategy in their transmissions.
@@phillarsson8253 Yes they were. Go find a pic of a 1970 MC250. The rear sproket wass 55+ teeth and it had a 11 or 12 cs. They had a tiny set of trans gears.
@@truthboomertruthbomber5125 Indeed you're right! However Maico did step off that perception as soon as the narrow crankcase engines came in. That's just where I got my first Maico (MC440 Magnum) from when I started racing in a line of a few more to come. Never had one of those (so-called) square barrel- Maico's. Cheers!
I remember walking past one of these in the window at my local H-D dealer. I thought this was the best looking bike MX bike ever and wanted one So Bad. I would have been 14 at that time. I remember telling my Dad how much I needed that bike.
The list of bigger failures, is quite significant, except for those who want nothing more than to bash Harley Davidson. The bikes bring SERIOUS money these days for your information, but again, especially across the pond, pathetic individuals live to bash the name. 95 percent simply can't afford to insure one, more or less actually buy one. So easy to sit around the pub, drinking warm beer, and bash anything and everything American.
But at the top of that list, the top 4 that nobody has the brains/balls to bash, would be the 4-stroke forced on the industry by the EPA/FIM, the 1986 FIM (Not AMA), production rule for the USA only, the FIM and the AMA themselves. Those top 4 failures, (outside of land closures), have been the biggest failures that we have endured, and responsible for almost all of the 90% market share loss, (with a smaller population before 1986, when market share was 10 times what it is today). How can there be bigger failures than those 4? The results are in.
The USA was created with the proper philosophies for man to live by, (individual liberty protected by law, with citizen created and owned free enterprise), and communism (the opposite philosophy for man to suffer under.), had to destroy them,--with the help of getting the declining people in Europe to hate the USA,---and now even our own school students are taught to hate their own nation. As a sharp woman once said (Ayn Rand): "We will get exactly what we deserve, and it all depends on how we think." Another from Rand, a conversation: Guy 1) "Have you ever noticed, that when a person from hollywood passes away, they are on the news for 2 weeks. But when a great philosopher dies who loved human freedom, there is almost no mention of it all all. Nobody notices. Guy 2) "Oh, they will notice,--------------------------------------------------------------------------eventually.
When I was kid growing up in Southern California there was a large Harley Dealer. I remember see a long row of brand new Harley MX250's. I was a kid and could not afford one but it would be an interesting bike to show up at the track today at a local old timers event.
There were more manufacturers back then that I can recall competing for buyers. Bultaco, Montesa, Husqvarna, Maico, were the bigger European names, then the big 4 from Japan.
id really like to see a 74 mx175a (yamaha) i have one but its pretty far from running and id love to see what the machine could do, also really hard to find anything on info about them
The reason why MX was invented in Europe after WW2 and not the USA was because there were many people making/selling motorcycles in Europe and all we had was Harley and Indian. That was because we also had Ford affordable cars in the USA, (more free people can make new things), so people bought them instead of motorcycles for transportation. So, after WW2, MX was stared by your boys (Europe), coming home from the war and wanting something exciting to do, and they created Motocross. The USA War vets started the Hell's Angles, but drove a Ford to the Harley dealership instead of a bicycle. :) If Harley would have hired Roger DeCoster (or a guy like him) for development, it probably would have been a success. We still can't make a bike in the USA, (Cannondale tried in 2000, but was destroyed IMO), and that has to be anti free market forces. Have you noticed in just about every industry free people built, (which is all of them),---there are no beginners allowed anymore?
See, this old man learned something here. I did not know AMF stood for "American Machine and Foundry". I thought AMF just made soccer and tether balls. :) Thank you.
A friend of my teenage years got a 2-stroke Harley in the late '70s. It was used and abused. One day while out in the sand the fuel line broke and it burned up. I never got to ride it. Edit: It was the 360cc model.
Great video ! We saw Rex Staten race at Atl. supercross. I think it was a chain , frame break. I dont remember seeing close up photos of the bike. Motocross Action, or Dirt Bike. Tha frame looks the worst ever designed. how many pieces can break? Wow . The mistake was not making the exact copy of a CR, YZ, Suz, or Kaw, with slight differences to avoid patent law. Great memory.
The bike was super good looking for its time (maybe KTM used it as inspiration) and that lack of low end can be fixed with a reed valve set-up. Thanks for these videos your channel is awesome!
It was the insane advancements hitting the sport as everyone was quickly going to monoshock, electronic ignition, more power from better expansion pipes, lighter components and more. HD could never catch up
No, it was not insane. It was actually how fast a new industry can develop when we are free to do so. Cost was also an issue back then as should be, (but is not today), as cost is very important for a health and large market share, (bike sales). It is not the development that was amazing to me (I rode through it), although it was like a race in itself. But how little in cost the bikes went up during that magical time between 68 and 86 (In the USA before the evil 1986 production rule). In 68, a new 4-stroke MX bike was more expensive than a new 2-stroke 250 was in 78, (2-stroke not forced on us by government). From my first time into the sport in 76, for a $1000.00 new MX bike, before the 1986 production rule (that tripled the cost of a bike in 5 years), the bikes gained: 1) 12" suspension travel and vastly improved suspension action, (which seems to have stopped at the awesome YZ SSS forks) 2) Proper MX frame geometry. 3) Better motors and transmissions, clutches, porting, pipe going from 30hp to 45. (250 2-stroke). 4) Exhaust power valves. 5) Controls feel, (Brakes, clutch, shifting), and efficiency, and overall ergonomics (which I say has gone downhill today) 6) Water cooling 7) Disk brakes 8) Up-side-down forks, (sold in after market at the time in 1986, Simmons forks) 9) Aluminum swing arms and better frames. 10) Single shock with linkage. Some factories retooled every year for a new bike. Now KTM just buys them as they go out of business. lol And over a 10 year span from 76 to 86, the most bike development had been made, and the price only went up 50% (to about $1,500 before the 1986 production rule.) That is the amazement of some pretty real free enterprise,---that we are no longer allowed to do. There are other factors too, (like local riding area's diminishing), but I know exactly why this sport has lost 90% of its market share, since the sport before the 1986 production rule. "Grow the sport"? Not allowed to happen. Not gonna happen. You won't be doing better either. Sorry. I see the direction. 74-86 in MX bike development/manufacturing. Man, that was an amazing race. Free People do amazing things. Doug in Michigan
@@EarthSurferUSA and that was exactly my point , within that 10 years span we went from basically a lightened street bike to the modern water cooled screamer we see today , with a suspension that can handle almost anything and naturally you had to pay for it…if you wanted to be competitive. The technology and changes within those few short years … I would say 76 through 84 was insane. The bikes were day and night in almost every aspect of makes a motocross bike perform.
I never made the connection between the military/WLA bikes and the impact they had on the birth of bike culture after soldiers returned to civilian life. Excellent run-down on the history, thanks.
I love these vintage dirtbike videos!! Keep em coming 👍👍
Thanks! Will do!
Rich Eierstedt moved in across the street from my family in 1977 during his brief ride with HD. He said these bikes were pretty fast for a few laps and then the engines would seize. The only bonus was Harley paid him cash to race these. Thank you for mentioning Rich in this presentation.
No Problem Dave, thanks for watching. Sounds like Rich and Rex both had the same issues with the bike.
More castor oil...
In 1978 i was in the 10th grade in high school. Saw the Harley MX250 race in the expert class at Oak Hill MX Park out pass Decatur Texas. Think it might have been the factory guys out testing it. It took first place. It rocketed away from the field and the only one that could get close to them was a guy on an RM250. The Harley would leave it in the straight sections and the RM would close up some in the tight stuff. The Harley still won by a good margin over second place. Also saw one in a dealership that was for sale in Ft.Worth Texas in a dealership just down the way from Ridgemar Mall
I restored two for a museum. One like new, the other patinad(sp?). Both could have fired right up if fuel were added. Definitely tuned for high rpm . 😊
I raced against one once. The guy was a good rider and would pass me in the corners and I blew by him on the straights on my RM 250C2. Maybe it was an advantage of the suspension and I only weighed 135 pounds.
I was also a sophmore
I rode a KTM
The 2 most influential failures in the history of MX were created by policy that is not free enterprise.
1) The 1986 FIM (Not AMA), production rule that stopped factory bike development in the USA (cause we won the MXofN 5 times in a row), which tripled the cost of a bike in 5 short years, marking the start of market share decline.
2) The 4-stroke engine forced on the industry by a dictatorship called the EPA. Those are the 2 biggest failures by far, in the history of MX.
The EPA was not the main force behind the switch to four stroke MX bikes.
Another ‘video-project-overachiement’ Max! You, the team and your sponsors should be very proud. Thanx again!👏👏🏆✅
Thanks Guy. Hope you have a great Xmas mate:) We will definitely catch up with you in 2024.
We found one of these in a barn in Ca. 15 yrs ago. We restored it and now its in a museum.
Great video. Everything you guys put together is top notch. I have been following motocross since 1977. Pro nationals, super cross, Trans/USA, motocross of nations The whole deal. But I still love hearing about all my heroes from the past. Great mod in keeping it all alive. Greetings from America. God love ya’s.
Thanks Guy, have a good Xmas:)
This channel is the gift that keeps on giving , I’m hooked , really well put together , quality work 👌🏼
Thanks Luke, Glad you're enjoying the videos:)
It’s funny you made this video about this bike, my family has a bit of a history with Harley’s. My grandparents and a better part of my dad’s side of the family have owned Harley’s at one point or another. My uncle had an epic yellow one with massive Ape Hanger bars (he’s also got a history with hot rod fabrication and chopper fabrication too)
Thank you so much for everything you do! 😀
No problem, its a tough job , but someone has to do it...lol , Thanks for watching and have a good Xmas:)
I think Rocket Rex rode those bikes for HD. And, LOL there he is! Hey Rex!
it was awesome to talk to Rex :)
@@999lazer Rex is defiantly "The Man".
@@999lazera true gentlemen!
Rex Staton could ride the hell out of one. 😊
So did Larry Roeseler.
How many races did they win on them?
@@Poppi-G Larry won several California desert races on the H-D, before Husqvarna offered him a factory ride.
Yea but Harley faild...the drug head addicts there sons were. They ran the BUSINESS into the ground... Watch history channels...Harley & David weren't about cruising. They were o
About speed and power. And winning races..I
I like to see them build one know ..but since Kawasaki owns Harley. They would just change give you a KX.
PUCH MX MC250 1976 It had 2 carburetors 1 reedvalve, in one case induction rotorary valve. . It was crazy power.😮
Great video ! How about doing the early 90s CZ 125 type 519 .
Thanks for the suggestion:) I'll look into it.
Nice video Max, love the stories of these rare MX bikes, and looking forward to Lot's more.
Thanks Kevin, Hope you have a great Xmas:)
@@999lazer sending Xmas Cheer and happiness back to you Max.
You forgot about the Sprint 250 and Sprint ERS 350 and the Baja 100 all of these models were raced in the late 60s at flattrack desert races and scrambles that later became motocross
And we're very fast and in fact Mert Lawill was shown at the beginning of the movie 🎦 On Any Sunday flattracking one on his grand championship chase it the one with the air filter sticking out the front Check it out
And short track was the 250 Sprint first and then the engine out of the motocross bikes were ported run by Jay Springsteen for most of his runs for the Grand National championship for the AMA for years and most Harley Davidson teams
The first MX race I attended was at Wapella Illinois in 1978 to watch my cousin race 125B. I can still recall watching a Harley MX in the 250 class, and it was at the tail end of the pack.
About a year ago a great article on a lost factory H-D MX bike was in the AMA magazine.
What an interesting episode, I didn't knew the full story... Can't wait to see what Dave has in his bag next.
We have some very cool stuff coming ;) Have a great Xmas.
For a rare ride, try a '94+ CZ125. Super hard to find here, it was a moderized 125 compared to the other bikes they sold that were developed in the very early '70s.
Man, look at it smoke. I bet it still has the stock jetting (Were and are, always shipped rich for new 2-strokes with a carb), but it sounds pretty good.
What a treat. :)
Excellent job as usual and you keep raising the bar. I have to add my 2 cents. I remember these being advertised in the magazines, but I don’t remember seeing 1 in person. Sooo, I went to MXA to get fast refresh. MXA mentions a MX track in Omaha, Nebraska. I lived in Omaha at that time and I don’t remember a MX track in the nearby area. There was a MX track about 30-40 miles north of Omaha by the village of Herman, Nebraska, in the mid, late 70’s. I raced there at least once. That track also hosted a Trans-AMA or a Trans-National or whatever they were called back then.I was a spectator at 2 events. I got to see Roger Decoster kick some a$$. He was so smooth and line selection were next level.
I recently read that the HD was at the starting line at a MX or SX and failed to start. I ran out of time doing the research on that. It may have been in RacerX.
As for the legacy of HD, IMO it questionable. I give HD credit for rebuilding after the AMF failure. However, HD was being outsold in the heavyweight motorcycle market in the early 80’s by the Japanese. In 20 words or less the Japanese created a superior and more dependable motorcycle at a better price. So in order to create a more ‘level playing field’, president Reagan at HD’a urging put a tariff on all Japanese bikes over 750cc. The tariff was in effect from 1983 to 1988.
Isn’t it odd that at Daytona 1988/1989 HD introduced a prototype named the ‘Fatboy’. Please remember the atomic bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were named Fat Boy’ and ‘Little Man’. Of course the marketing gurus at HD deny it had anything to do with the Japanese, but the bikes looks. Uhhh huhhh. You can make your own decision. I have presented only facts and documented history.
Another great vid boys and merry Christmas to you and your viewers keep it smoky
Thank you. Have a great Xmas too:)
Another superb historical analysis!! Your real good on not only in front of camera, but your research per motorcycle is commendable, dig deep.. moreover going to the length to interview Rex was, again, commendable!! He said facts I had no idea on..
Thanks Lee, have a great Xmas:)
Thanks for the history lesson. As an owner of an ATK 406 I very much enjoyed it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another cracking video Max. Fingers crossed we get 30 + minutes on the Wilcomoto story soon
Thanks Andrew, I will do my best:) Have a good Xmas.
I had a 1975 SX 250 a few years back. I found the power very acceptable compared to others in it's class better than most of the enduro equals of it's day!
Great story on the Harley MX. Kind of reminds me of the can am MX5 but they were much more refined and successful. In addition to your story about the road racing success for HD, Canadian Pascal Picotte raced the VR1000 Harley Davidson from 1998 to 2000 with great results.
The VR1000 was pilloried by Ricardo when they attempted to develop it for racing.
that was a great watch i never knew HD had tried there hand on dirtbikes i thought the interview with the old works rider really added to the story as well. good effort
Thanks Arthur, have a great Xmas:)
Was it common for the rear suspension springs to resonate at some engine RPMs? This is visible at 36:17 to 36:30.
Great job this video took me back to when I was 13 years old in 1978 living in USA all my friends were riding Yamaha,Suzuki or Honda and a buddy told me that Harley Davidson had made a motorcross bike to compete with the RM ,YZ, CR We all thought it would be junk . I didn’t know Rocket Rick statin raced that bike Wow that bike weighed 250lbs man he was a strong rider and very good. I remember my best friend had a 1974 19:44 Push 175 enduro that was 250lbs. Thanks for the memories. Keep up with your great videos buddy
Thanks Jeffrey. Have a good Xmas:)
Great vlog max, you n Dave are really spoiling us with these rare old bikes, can’t wait for the next one 💯🔥😎👊🏻 Merry Christmas 🎄
Thankyou, have a great Xmas too:)
Along about the same time Harley put out their MX bike they were dominating the flat track series of racing. The XR 750 was unbeatable on the mile tracks.
And a lot of 250 mot[rs ended up in short track factory bikes. Which also won many races
Neat! I almost bought a Harley Davidson MT350 from an army auction. To do the whole scrambler thing. But decided it's not worth all the trouble for finding parts, just for the tiny Harley badge it had.
Great vidoe guys cant believe the detail you go into what a time for motorcross development the 70s were . Bit of a new comer to the channel but once owned a 1979 EMC 250 sold it for next to nothing when I moved from the UK would love to here the history of those bikes
Thanks Andrew, glad you're enjoying the videos. I'll take a look into the EMX. Cheers Max
I had the Cycle World mag test from 78 on that thing tornado got it. They said it was like the 78/79 CR Honda high rpm powerband delivery not much before.
Thanks max for a great Year of VLOGGS , Wishing you and your family a merry Christmas and happy new year 🥳
Thanks Docs, appreciate you always watching. Have a great Xmas too :)
@@999lazer see you next year
Fantastic. Your videos are amazing. I follow you from italy. Yow have many followers here too. We all are not english mother tongue, but you speak so clear that is easy to follow. Compliments and go on
Awesome! Thank you!
I owned one back in around 1980-1 my Dad bought it at a car auction and brought it home and I bought from him. Right off the bat You had to pull it to start it, no damn kick start. Once I found someone to pull me I discovered a rod knock. Pulled it apart to find crank pin and rod bearing out. Took crank in to a crank shaft and balance shop to press out pin and press in new on and balance . Also ordered new piston and ring while apart to find there was different color code pitons and even back then it took me along time for dealer to special order that piston. All in all after the long repair process I finally got it running and was so disappointed in it , it totally like this video stated was dead in bottom end and not that lively at mid range, you literally had to run wide open to find life in it. And when attempting to climb hills with it , if you didn’t open it wide open it would bog out with no recovery and there you were dead and laying it down on the ground and after that you would have to pull start it again because no damn kick start. Never understood if in competition they weren’t aloud a kicker or what the hell the deal was. Before this bike I owned a 75 Harley SX -250 enduro that I road to school for a couple yrs to high school. That actually was a pretty decent bike and quite dependable and my brother bought a brand new red 1978 SX-250 in 78 actually they were attractive looking bikes with same taillight as their big road bikes. But getting back to the MX deal , I never was so disappointed as I was with the end results of that investment. I was expecting to be riding wheelies with it and all I got out of it was a boggy dog down at bottom end. Sold it couple yrs later to someone else and was happy to see it gone. But it was a cool looking bike that I had high hopes for . I always thought till now 40 some yrs later that timing was off or something wasn’t right on my end but now herring this info I now know it was the desighn flaw. Another good lesson for me and to you out there don’t buy a race machine if you want a versital riding machine. Also this bike was tall and that even made it worse with no kick stand and dead bottom end. I knew back then these things were rare because I never ever seen another one since.
What??? There's no crank pin on these. It's all bombardier copy made in Italy. I bought one new. Garbage.
You should make a video about the Puch MC250 Harry Everts replica 😉
Great video.
I was a Cagiva Dealer starting in 1985 and the 125 was a great bike.
Support from Italy sucked, as it does with every product they export.
This Aermacchi/H-D motor design soldiered on for many more years. First as a few street, mx and enduro models for Cagiva. Then, as a trials motor for Ignacio Bulto's Merlin trials bikes...The ball and ramp clutch was a bear to operate but Cagiva finally redesigned the actuator and clutch cover to the more standard type lever and rod that most bikes use.
What's behind that grey coloured cover right behind the engine sprocket on 17:06? Makes me think of where Japanese light-weight two-strokes would protect their oil mixture pump from catching dirt off the chain?
That was an impossible find thats for sure sweet looking bike though .Its defo been an awsome year with all the 2stroke content you have brought to the channel and long may it continue, chers guys
Thank you. Have a good Xmas:)
I worked in a local speed shop outside San diego and had the privilege to test ride and tune the Harley Marty rode at the LA coliseum in 1978. I was only like 17 at the time and we were experimenting with different ported cylinders to squeeze some more performance out of her. When we finally got what we were looking for, Marty rode practice on race day said bike never ran better. Preparing for the nights event the mechanic was checking over the bike and overtightend a triple clamp pinch bolt and broke the triple clamp with no spare. Marty missed that race, but I always wondered how he would have done. That Boy could ride!
You’re a great host and the show concept is rad, keep em coming
Thanks Toby
So when this bike came out, I was riding a Hodaka SL250 as a dual purpose commuter and trail bike. I really wanted a more dedicated trail bike and looked hard at the Harley 250. Loved the layout. It was easy to get up on the tank to plant the front end, and when it hit it would haul the mail just fine. 2 drawbacks: you could not get it registered as a street bike, and getting parts was iffy. Oh yeah, and the dealers were not cutting the prices. So we ended up with a Bultaco Frontera and an Ossa Super Pioneer - both got past DMV and got plates so you could ride back to camp on a road. Both were cheaper and the Ossa was so light you could pick it by yourself (215 # dry). Same issues with Can-Am. Good bikes, but for the rich guys ... 🙃
That is the last thing you want as a trail bike. I tried it. Doesn’t work. Better have a box of spark plugs with you.
Rex Stanton, man that is old school, I remember him at Carlsbad very muddy.
A friend of mine had one of these. It was about 1986. I first thought that the belt on the tank was his way of keeping it on the bike. The bike was well aged by this time but ran well enough to do the kind of riding we did at the time. All of our stuff was cobbled together from long abused machines. A new plug was a luxury. Was a great time looking back on it. Especially the Ice racing. We didn't have a clue, but we tried.
Thanks for your videos.
I would like a video on the Villiers 34 A based motorcycles, Dot, James, and Greeves.
i had a 1972 AMF 250 on off back in the 80s, it was great until the piston cracked. couldn't get a replacement at the time, then our barn burned down. so gone lol
Rex was cool to have in the video.
He must have been on the ragged edge to make that even semi competitive.
Thanks Paul, it was so good of Rex to do that for us. :)
.. Yet another excellent vid,.. Merry Chrimbo, Max mate ,...
Same to you!
I really like your video's on old MX bikes. Have you thought about doing one on the AJS Stormer? I had one, a 250 and it came in kit form to avoid tax. It was a great bike.
The quality and content of the 999Lazer videos is really quite superb, every bit as good as some bbc or Channel 4 program which has had shed loads of money wasted on them. Great work 999lazer but it would be great if you could find the very rare 1977/78 British Rival 125cc motocross bike "l'd love to see one on your show".
There’s a guy who brings multiple HD 250 bikes to Unadilla for the Mx rewind event every year. They made a 100cc as well and there’s a couple of those that show up too
Interesting machine! I believe there was 1 in NL in the 78 season ridden in the amateur leage. Technically seen the tank strap was known from CZ, the Akront rims were also on Maicos and the rear shocks with external reservoirs were also to be obtained from Corte&Cosso, Hulco, also Öhlins and WP. Please keep the rare birds of paradise coming? I love to see those rareties from my teen years when I learned so much about technique and people. Regards and have a merry christmas and a happy new year, T🐻 from NL.
Thanks for watching. We'll try our best to keeping the interesting bikes coming:) Have a good Xmas too:)
Yet another great vid Max. You have had a really successful year so congrats for all your hard work. Have a great Xmas and NY. Ring-a-ding-ding!
Thanks Craig, You have a great Xmas too:)
Fascinating claim given that design won the Baja 500.
Enine was a two-stroke screamer, of its time.
Great history lesson Max. Now Imma tell you the story from the inside of a regular guy who was a top journalist in the US for a time.
FACT: Rex Staten was a Pro boxer who gravitated towards motocross, thank God for that.
In an ironic twist at the 500cc USGP at Carlsbad one of your countrymen, Vic Allen i believe, caused Rex to crash heavily in a turn. Rocket Rex got up like an angry bull in Pamplona, Spain and PUNCHED this dude right through the helmet.🤯👀 Bro wobbled backward and i think only the adrenaline kept him conscious. NOBODY screwed with Rex Staten after that punch was aired on ABC TVs Wide World of Sport.
MX came on TV ONCE a year, you young'uns can't imagine the waiting.
Announcer: 'Rex, you can't do that on TV.'
Rex: 'Hold my beer.'
FACT: I was the FIRST PERSON in New York State to buy a Cagiva. 1985 WMX125. It was a random goof running into John and Sal, 2 Italian American brothers who ran a Harley Davidson repair and customization shop in New Rochelle, New York called Motorcycle Center at the International Motorcycle Show in NYC.
I jokingly said to John, "Hey, you're Italian. Why don't you get one of these bikes, the design looks pretty good. Plus they won the world championship."
To my HORROR and DELIGHT, 3 months later John calls me and says 'the bike is here, when do you want to pick it up?' 👀🤯
I couldn't believe he ACTUALLY got one. It was a badge of honor when he said this will possibly be the first one sold in America but DEFINITELY the first one sold in the state of New York. That's an honor I STILL carry proudly.
* addendum to the Cagiva story. Years after when I'd risen up to the 250cc class i was wearing my Cagiva racer jersey after picking up some parts from my Kawie racing dealer, Hudson Valley Motorcycles, and decided to stop by their race counterpart shop for those who rode Yamahas. Eric and Dorothy Guenkel were the owners of Hunter Motorcycles.
We didn't have the Internet like we do today and news traveled slowly. As i popped into the shop in Thornwood, NY, i froze. 😮 There standing 30 feet away from me was newly crowned World Champion PEKKA VEKH9NEN 😁
While I'm stuck in place at the shock of seeing him, he was equally bug eyed to see a guy wearing his replica Cagiva jersey.
As he damn near ran to me I snapped out of it and stuck my hand out. I didn't know he had recently signed with Yamaha to race the 250cc Grand Prix series. The Unadilla round was the next time I'd see him but not up close and personal like i did that night. Yup, i was fan boying all over the place. 😅
FACTS: The Castiglione Brothers were not only seriously RICH. they were seriously IN LOVE with motorcycles.
When Husqvarna tried to end itself, they bought the company, and the engineers, and had them modify the Cagivas so as Cagiva was going out as a MX brand the legendary Husky brand was given new life. KTM did a similar thing recently but this was decades ago. They also saved the legendary Ducati road bike brand and look at Ducati today, WINNING MotoGP races and championships as often as 3 year old kids spill milk at breakfast.
FACT: I believe Dutchman Davey Strijbos (STRYboze) was the first 125 Champ to win on the Cagiva with Finn Pekka Vekhonen (the H is silent accent on VEKK,o,nen) winning the 2nd straight title for them.
FACT: Italian 125 specialist, Corrado Madii (koRAHdoh modDEE) almost caused a triple crown moment but broke his leg in practice at the final 125 cc GP. Read my article below. 🫶🏾
😎 He would've been the FIRST Italian World Moto-cross Champion. 😮
Cagiva would've been the FIRST Italian company to win a world motocross title.😮
Cagiva would've been the FIRST company to win the World Championship in their first effort.😮
FACT: In America, AMF was a jack of all trades corporation, a think tank of professional money makers who knew little about the companies under it's umbrella. There were AMF bowling alleys EVERYWHERE. Great for businesses when you're also the main maker of bowling balls, bowling shoes etc. They advertised on TV a LOT and actually played a big part in getting Americans off the couch and out into the world to get active. They made tennis racket, tennis balls, tennis shoes etc. But their lack of a focused direction became their undoing. You can't be everything to sell to everyone...you know how that ended.
Like KTM, my brand since 2003, other companies went into specific niches of AMF's markets and became BETTER than AMF at everything they sold. No king reigns forever.
Fact: The tracks here in. D34, MSC, Metropolitan Sports Committee were relatively tight and didn't have a lot of flowing sections, they catered to tighter turning Japanese bikes so i didn't do well at my local races as I'd hoped.
The Cagiva was a spectacularly built machine, lots of high end parts and terrific engineering. But there was zero testing on typical American tracks.
I was SHOCKED when i went to a fast, wide open sand track in the LISC, Long Island Sports Committee. It was like the Cagiva WMX125 WOKE UP. I literally felt as if i could let go one hand of the bars at the top of 4th gear and the bike would've went dead straight 🤯👀🤔 My little rebel revver was clearly a Euro GP kind of machine. I got a rocket start, inside the top 3 but unfamiliarity with the tracks, (it wasn't as well laid out and marked as MSC tracks) I missed a turn and had to turn around. No bueno on the race result but that bike had shown me it's true potential.
On aGP type track it would've been an incredible handler and the mid to upper powerband was best suited to faster tracks, not the stop and go semi-SX tracks we had here.
FACTS: The elephant which is the Cagiva symbol is really a good luck charm in Italy. Like a 4 leaf clover is to the Irish. Elephants don't represent fast and agile, and i think this could've played a part in Cagiva not getting the market penetration such a great dirt bike should've given them.
The name Cagiva is an acronym of the brothers names and the town the factory was located.
CAstiglioni, GIovanni
VArese. CA,GI,VA
Note: KTM did the same
K,ronreif
T,runkenpolz
M,attighofen,
K and T are the cofounders, M is the little town in Austria where they were founded.
Even further side note. The ///AMG performance car company did the same.
A,uffrect
M,elchior
G,robenspach
A and M were two Mercedes engineers who moonlighted hopping up customers Mercedes cars. They left the company when business took off.
Grobenspach is the town their initial garage was located in.
** here's the blast from that past. Enjoy the read**
"ALMOST FAMOUS"
cybermotorcycle.com/articles/almost-famous.htm
🎉❤
Thanks for the history lesson:) There's some great facts right there. Not sure if you've seen this or not, but you might enjoy it, I actually got my hands on a 85 Cagiva to do a test with. Here's the video link th-cam.com/video/TXWe2kEcPxs/w-d-xo.html Cheers Max
Thanks Cliff 😂
Well presented, thank you👍
Thanks Stevo, have a good Xmas:)
I saw those Harley MX'ers at the Herman Nebraska National in 1978. I can't remember exactly but I think the riders were Don Kudalski and Marty Tripes. It was cool to see them in the pits. They didn't win that day. The victory went to Bob Hannah as he schooled the rest of the pros on his 1978 OW26 Factory Yamaha.
When Harley was owned by AMF, it was a terrible time for them. It is amazing that they were able to claw their way back to profitability after the devastation wreaked by AMF. Regarding this 250: it came along at a time when there already existed plenty of bikes to choose from. Absent outstanding performance and/or super low price, it didn't stand a chance.
There wouldn't be a Harley Davidson today if it weren't for AMF.
AMF spent a lot of money modernising the factory and left it in better shape than they found it
@@leesmith4659spent alot of money on foreign garbage.. their quality control was garbage. Regardless of any positive changes to they assembly line.
@@garettanderson6772 really? Cause amf didn't buy indian.. yet the name still lingers today
@@dormantmenace Yes really.
Rex Staten almost made it work.
He was a good guy to talk to in the video. When he said he gave it everything you knew he meant it :)
@@999lazer truly a man's man.
I wanted one of these so bad back in the day. It was such a cool looking bike. It had a full page add in the back of every bike magazine.
It was a tough looking bike at the time. A older neighbor of mine had one, and I remember him jump out of a ditch with it. Must have been at least a 10' jump!!! Coolest thing I ever personally saw in my whole 14 year old life. :)
Splendid job. The mx250 very cool time piece. I'm not really a Harley person at all. I do however respect their history. My dad had an Indian Chief back in the day.
I prefer the dirt and the smell of fine 2t gas.
Cannondale was a bigger failure. Harley dealers wanted nothing to do with motocross customers.that did not help either. They did have alot of success in the desert with the baja 100 the early 1970's. Dakar, Isde, and Baja champion Larry Roeseler was one of the racers. I believe there is a baja 100 in the lobby at pro circuit.
That's what confused me about the statement that Harley Davidson only got into the 2 stroke biz in 1975. The Baja 100 was built in, what, 1969-70? It was also successful in desert racing.
I got to see them race at Red Bud in Buchanan Michigan. What a kool period in motocross history
Thanks for watching. Have a great Xmas.
I remember seeing the test riders at Red Bud! They were very slow.
I raced one for the Harley dealership in Las Cruces, NM in 78. I stepped off a Yamaha YZ to ride the Harley. the bike was difficult to ride compared to the Yamaha. It shifted poorly and I was forced to use the clutch for most shifts. Low end torque was poor so I had to clutch it a lot coming out of the corners. I had to change my riding style a lot in order to be competitive. In 76 and 77 I won more than half the races and finished in the top 5 most of the others but after changing to the Harley, I never did well. The bike was a little underpowered and didn't handle as well and most of the other bikes of the day. I remember riding it hard for less than perfect results. They are rare now and I wish I had the bike only because if it's rarity.
Luckily, you were able to switch back in time to become the 1979 AMA National Champion 😂
my best friend had one in the early 80s, they were underpowered and a nightmare to ride. The clutch was horrible. they did catwalk quite well. his was a nice blue colour.
We used to call those " Cheng Slip " tyres lol ! That's a lovely bike .
I remember those new in showroom, local harley dealer.
Never knew anyone to own one, i rode a 78 cr250.
Max Iam building a 1983 Yamaha it 490 at the moment not far from finishing it wants I’ve run it in your welcome to test ride it for your channel trouble is I live in Cornwall 👍
But test it on a 1983 track. :)
Also very informative. History of Harley. Thanks great show.
Thanks David
Would you be able to find a 1978 ish ccm 125?
Harley's racing history, a few road race championships in Europe. Nice, but check out American flat track racing. It may be the biggest manufacture domination in the history of motorcycle racing.
11:58 there is a spider on the rear shock haha
I noticed that too 13:55
In the 70s there was a bicycle company called DG they also built motocross dirt bikes.would like to learn more about their demise.thanks
A mention for asking you to look up the harley 250mx would have been nice..great job though,thoroughly enjoyed it
Thanks Lee, have a great Xmas.
8:24 So much for Honda making the first dirt bike with a "low boy pipe" in 1988. But DKW did not lower the gas tank that made the Honda feel lighter than the rest.
They came with a pretty complete spares kit as well if I remember correctly.
I watched Rex, and Marty Tripes and I think Don Kadalski race these at Carlsbad USGP and Pasadena live back in the day .2:40
Oh I forgot to mention how about doing a Rokon MX or RT 340. Probably won’t find one in the UK though. But you never know some collector might have one tucked away.
We found a rokon recently. the video will be coming soon :)
@@999lazer Very Kool anxiously awaiting for this one. I own 5 of them and they are quite unique hope you got to ride it.
You could find those huge rear sprockets also on Montesa MX-bikes of that era. It's just those huge sprockets that requiered a special kind of chain guiding system and it's weird indeed why they didn't just uphold a different primary gear setting (crankshaft to clutch basket) to make things a lot easier and to save some weight back there. Bigger sprocket on the back means putting a longer (= heavier) chain in there along with other extra mechanical stuff (=extra weight again).
The large rear sprocket is an indicator that the transmission gears are not strong enough to stand up to the hp of the motor. By spinning the transmission shafts very fast there is less stress on the individual gear teeth. Maico used this same strategy in their transmissions.
@@truthboomertruthbomber5125 Still, Maico's rear sprockets were never this huge though.
@@phillarsson8253 Yes they were. Go find a pic of a 1970 MC250. The rear sproket wass 55+ teeth and it had a 11 or 12 cs. They had a tiny set of trans gears.
@@truthboomertruthbomber5125 Indeed you're right! However Maico did step off that perception as soon as the narrow crankcase engines came in. That's just where I got my first Maico (MC440 Magnum) from when I started racing in a line of a few more to come. Never had one of those (so-called) square barrel- Maico's. Cheers!
I remember walking past one of these in the window at my local H-D dealer. I thought this was the best looking bike MX bike ever and wanted one So Bad. I would have been 14 at that time. I remember telling my Dad how much I needed that bike.
The list of bigger failures, is quite significant, except for those who want nothing more than to bash Harley Davidson.
The bikes bring SERIOUS money these days for your information, but again, especially across the pond, pathetic individuals live to bash the name. 95 percent simply can't afford to insure one, more or less actually buy one. So easy to sit around the pub, drinking warm beer, and bash anything and everything American.
But at the top of that list, the top 4 that nobody has the brains/balls to bash, would be the 4-stroke forced on the industry by the EPA/FIM, the 1986 FIM (Not AMA), production rule for the USA only, the FIM and the AMA themselves.
Those top 4 failures, (outside of land closures), have been the biggest failures that we have endured, and responsible for almost all of the 90% market share loss, (with a smaller population before 1986, when market share was 10 times what it is today). How can there be bigger failures than those 4? The results are in.
The USA was created with the proper philosophies for man to live by, (individual liberty protected by law, with citizen created and owned free enterprise), and communism (the opposite philosophy for man to suffer under.), had to destroy them,--with the help of getting the declining people in Europe to hate the USA,---and now even our own school students are taught to hate their own nation. As a sharp woman once said (Ayn Rand): "We will get exactly what we deserve, and it all depends on how we think."
Another from Rand, a conversation:
Guy 1) "Have you ever noticed, that when a person from hollywood passes away, they are on the news for 2 weeks. But when a great philosopher dies who loved human freedom, there is almost no mention of it all all. Nobody notices.
Guy 2) "Oh, they will notice,--------------------------------------------------------------------------eventually.
"It didn't handle good, but it wasn't fast." 🤣🤣🤣🤣💯
When I was kid growing up in Southern California there was a large Harley Dealer. I remember see a long row of brand new Harley MX250's. I was a kid and could not afford one but it would be an interesting bike to show up at the track today at a local old timers event.
There were more manufacturers back then that I can recall competing for buyers. Bultaco, Montesa, Husqvarna, Maico, were the bigger European names, then the big 4 from Japan.
It sounds more like a big bore than a 250. Cool bike, I didn’t know that they even existed! Great content, thanks fellas.
id really like to see a 74 mx175a (yamaha) i have one but its pretty far from running and id love to see what the machine could do, also really hard to find anything on info about them
Back in high school in the 1960s a friend of mine owned a 1949 Harley 125 2 stroke. It was very poor in both power and reliability.
Tell the story of Harley AMA road racing effort
or flat track
The reason why MX was invented in Europe after WW2 and not the USA was because there were many people making/selling motorcycles in Europe and all we had was Harley and Indian. That was because we also had Ford affordable cars in the USA, (more free people can make new things), so people bought them instead of motorcycles for transportation.
So, after WW2, MX was stared by your boys (Europe), coming home from the war and wanting something exciting to do, and they created Motocross.
The USA War vets started the Hell's Angles, but drove a Ford to the Harley dealership instead of a bicycle. :)
If Harley would have hired Roger DeCoster (or a guy like him) for development, it probably would have been a success.
We still can't make a bike in the USA, (Cannondale tried in 2000, but was destroyed IMO), and that has to be anti free market forces.
Have you noticed in just about every industry free people built, (which is all of them),---there are no beginners allowed anymore?
See, this old man learned something here. I did not know AMF stood for "American Machine and Foundry".
I thought AMF just made soccer and tether balls. :)
Thank you.
I hope Triumph is taking notes here. We all know how history repeats itself.
Very true
A friend of my teenage years got a 2-stroke Harley in the late '70s. It was used and abused. One day while out in the sand the fuel line broke and it burned up. I never got to ride it.
Edit: It was the 360cc model.
Great video ! We saw Rex Staten race at Atl. supercross. I think it was a chain , frame break. I dont remember seeing close up photos of the bike. Motocross Action, or Dirt Bike. Tha frame looks the worst ever designed. how many pieces can break? Wow . The mistake was not making the exact copy of a CR, YZ, Suz, or Kaw, with slight differences to avoid patent law. Great memory.
Thanks David, have a good Xmas:)
The bike was super good looking for its time (maybe KTM used it as inspiration) and that lack of low end can be fixed with a reed valve set-up. Thanks for these videos your channel is awesome!
Actually kinda looks like a 79 CR125 Elsinore I had years back.
It was the insane advancements hitting the sport as everyone was quickly going to monoshock, electronic ignition, more power from better expansion pipes, lighter components and more. HD could never catch up
No, it was not insane. It was actually how fast a new industry can develop when we are free to do so. Cost was also an issue back then as should be, (but is not today), as cost is very important for a health and large market share, (bike sales). It is not the development that was amazing to me (I rode through it), although it was like a race in itself. But how little in cost the bikes went up during that magical time between 68 and 86 (In the USA before the evil 1986 production rule).
In 68, a new 4-stroke MX bike was more expensive than a new 2-stroke 250 was in 78, (2-stroke not forced on us by government). From my first time into the sport in 76, for a $1000.00 new MX bike, before the 1986 production rule (that tripled the cost of a bike in 5 years), the bikes gained:
1) 12" suspension travel and vastly improved suspension action, (which seems to have stopped at the awesome YZ SSS forks)
2) Proper MX frame geometry.
3) Better motors and transmissions, clutches, porting, pipe going from 30hp to 45. (250 2-stroke).
4) Exhaust power valves.
5) Controls feel, (Brakes, clutch, shifting), and efficiency, and overall ergonomics (which I say has gone downhill today)
6) Water cooling
7) Disk brakes
8) Up-side-down forks, (sold in after market at the time in 1986, Simmons forks)
9) Aluminum swing arms and better frames.
10) Single shock with linkage.
Some factories retooled every year for a new bike. Now KTM just buys them as they go out of business. lol
And over a 10 year span from 76 to 86, the most bike development had been made, and the price only went up 50% (to about $1,500 before the 1986 production rule.)
That is the amazement of some pretty real free enterprise,---that we are no longer allowed to do. There are other factors too, (like local riding area's diminishing), but I know exactly why this sport has lost 90% of its market share, since the sport before the 1986 production rule.
"Grow the sport"? Not allowed to happen. Not gonna happen. You won't be doing better either. Sorry. I see the direction.
74-86 in MX bike development/manufacturing. Man, that was an amazing race. Free People do amazing things.
Doug in Michigan
@@EarthSurferUSA and that was exactly my point , within that 10 years span we went from basically a lightened street bike to the modern water cooled screamer we see today , with a suspension that can handle almost anything and naturally you had to pay for it…if you wanted to be competitive. The technology and changes within those few short years … I would say 76 through 84 was insane. The bikes were day and night in almost every aspect of makes a motocross bike perform.
I never made the connection between the military/WLA bikes and the impact they had on the birth of bike culture after soldiers returned to civilian life. Excellent run-down on the history, thanks.
It sounds identical to my fathers MX 250 yamaha. Still remember that sound.