I love how this channel treats Tolkien's work. Tolkien's original intention is always displayed, but there's no harsh criticism of people who have alternate interpretations, or of how the movies changed things. It doesn't feel as elitist or zealous as some people who talk about LOTR. It's just a very informative and friendly community around here, which feels like the vibe Tolkien would've wanted from his fans.
I think that's honestly what Tolkien would have appreciated about this community. No matter what his opinions of the adaptations themselves were, I feel he would have taken great joy in seeing people interpreting and especially re-interpreting his work countless times as ages past.
@@etienneporras7252 The evidence implies that this is very untrue and you are extremely mistaken. 1) "343 From a letter to Sterling Lanier 21 November 1972 I am glad to know that you were awarded a prize, but not surprised that it proved useless. I had a similar disappointment when a drinking goblet arrived (from a fan) which proved to be of steel engraved with the terrible words seen on the Ring. I of course have never drunk from it, but use it for tobacco ash." If the re-interpretation runs contrary to his intended meaning, then he would literally ash all over it. 2) Letter 292 has the explanatory note "Tolkien had been sent details of a proposed 'sequel' to The Lord of the Rings that a 'fan' was going to write himself". And says: "I do not know what the legal position is, I suppose that since one cannot claim property in inventing proper names, that there is no legal obstacle to this young ass publishing his sequel, if he could find any publisher, either respectable or disreputable, who would accept such tripe. I have merely informed him that I have forwarded his letter and samples to you. I think that a suitable letter from Allen & Unwin might be more effective than one from me. I once had a similar proposal, couched in the most obsequious terms, from a young woman, and when I replied in the negative, I received a most vituperative letter." 3) From letter 297: "But I remain puzzled, and indeed sometimes irritated, by many of the guesses at the 'sources' of the nomenclature, and theories or fancies concerning hidden meanings. These seem to me no more than private amusements, and as such I have no right or power to object to them, though they are, I think, valueless for the elucidation or interpretation of my fiction. If published,111 I do object to them, when (as they usually do) they appear to be unauthentic embroideries on my work, throwing light only on the state of mind of their contrivers, not on me or on my actual intention and procedure." I think you making this claim after yourself saying "No matter what his opinions of the adaptations themselves were", after the clarifications he himself made in THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-FOUR LETTERS is a terrible mistake and opens the way to people destroying his work. Let me not even make the obvious reference. How about: as somebody who has read books by Isaac Asimov, the AppleTV+ series "Foundation" is a horrifying, miserable betrayal of every single aspect of the Asimov books. An entire generation will grow up thinking that Asimov's writing was utter superstition-loving badly-written trash.
@ThedeadlyOG the Durban Poison grown in America is pretty nice. BUT I BET when grown over in South Africa OUTDOORS. It becomes an entirely different product, don't let ANYONE fool you. A Cannabis cultivar that I'd grown outdoors AND WHERE it originates from IS IDEAL. You are NOT going to be able to completely replicate it entirely under grow lights.
@@elijahwilson1422pretty sure he was like 3-4 years old when he lived in south Africa. Don't think he picked up a habit in that time lol. I suppose his parents could have, and maybe he learned of it from them, but still seems like a stretch.
There are two types of smokers, something Tolkien would have known. The first are those who just feed an addiction. They will smoke anything, usually the cheapest. The second is the person who sees smoking as a ritual. Who lovingly blends various types, to form something to aid in meditating upon great things.
Like most drugs, the form is important. Like comparing grain alcohol to beer. Tobacco cigarettes are the crack of the nicotine world, you smoke one, get a rush, want another. Cigars you shove a wad of tobacco in your mouth, don't inhale much, it hits slower and wears off slower. Pipes are a lot of trouble,you need to have a bunch of them and clean them often or you get a mouthful of tar. So I was too lazy to get into that and can't comment much. I suspect they are closer to cigars. Someone gave me some probably stale native American "ceremonial mix" which I did have to smoke in a pipe. It was quite mild. There's nothing psychoactive in it that I could tell but tobacco. I quit before vapes, don't want to start again so not gonna try it. Anyway be very careful with tobacco. Everyone I know that started as a young teenager was *never* able to quit.
I always imagined the long bottom leaf as a splif that was 75% pipe tobacco and 25% cannabis. But that’s my projection because I feel that particularly ratio smoked out a wooden pipe is the only way to go!
@@davemccage7918do you inhale it? i’m wondering because i like pipe tobacco and cannabis but i don’t put them together because i inhale weed and i don’t inhale tobacco
I love how thoroughly you present topics that are "world important" rather than "plot important" (to use your words). It's such a nice diving into and relishing the atmosphere of a book.
The main reason for Tolkien using the word "pipe weed" instead of "tobacco" when it's referenced by LotR's characters is etymological. Tolkien was a philologist specialized in old Germanic languages and his Legendarium is inspired by Germanic myths and languages. LotR was written as a more serious story than The Hobbit, with Tolkien being more aware of a need for consistency within the Legendarium. Therefore, when writing LotR, he's aware of the etymological problem of characters using the word "tobacco", a word rooted in a non-Germanic language, in a world based on Germanic mythology where people speak Germanic-based languages. That's why he prefers using the Germanic-rooted term "pipe weed". Merry still uses the word "tobacco" once. This could be a slip on Tolkien's part, or it could've done intentionally, as a way to make absolutely clear to the reader that pipe weed is tobacco (as if the explicit reference to tobacco in the glossary wasn't enough). Honestly, when there's an official glossary saying that "tobacco" is "pipe weed", I can't understand how anyone can seriously defend Tolkien was writing about marijuana. Some marijuana users can be very obnoxious and can make very wild claims to promote marijuana's acceptance, and this is certainly part of that phenomenon. I've had friends tell me about incredible (and totally made-up) health benefits of smoking marijuana. Geez, it's just a thing that you smoke to feel good. There's no need to make a fool of yourself when promoting it.
I enjoy how there is a literal variant of the plant called “Old Toby” as a clear reference to tobacco, but people still try twisting it into marijuana 😂
It is one of the great tragedies of our time that the noble and gentle art of pipe smoking has become an endangered pastime, unjustly lumped in with cigarette smoking as something to be avoided, shunned, and despised. The fact remains that the great artisanal pipeweedages like those of G.L. Pease, truly natural, and never adulterated with chemical additives, provide benefits that will never be realized let alone appreciated by those who cannot comprehend them. Yet, those who know, know.
Hello Robert. I watched alot of your Videos and i just want you to know that you are doing a great thing and i am grateful. Keep it up and i wish you best for everything.
I love what you say about readers taking what is it meaningful to them out of the story, as opposed to a pedantic allegory. You've brought something meaningful to something as seemingly inconsequential as pipeweed, which, as you point out, is actually very important. Thank you, as always, for your insightful and brilliant analysis!
My grandfather was a pipe smoker, so I've always known intrinsically what pipe weed was, particularly in that my first ever sight of Tolkien was the black and white photo of him smoking a pipe on the back cover of the edition I owned. My grandfather had a whole circular rack of pipes, owning more than a dozen ranging from work pipes to ornate 'special occasion' pipes. Likewise, at any given time, he'd have on hand between 3 and 5 different brands/flavors of pipe tobacco. And I specify 'pipe' tobacco because it's as completely different from cigar or cigarette tobacco as it's possible to be while remaining tobacco. Moisture level is different, drying process is different, even cut is different.
My grandfather smoked a pipe too, but quit abruptly when I was born with severe asthma. I've come across pipe smokers now and then and my God, the stench! I've been in chemical plants that smelled better.
@@foo219 Here's a funny thing. It used to be a thing to sprinkle (unburnt) pipe tobacco on the carpet to make the house smell better. While I've never smoked, there are several different pipe tobaccos I really enjoy the aroma of. Not the smoke, but the tobacco.
@@DeepFleeceheart Oddly, while I totally agree when speaking of cigars or cigarettes, and, to be honest, cheap pipe tobacco, there are some pipe tobaccos whose fragrance while burning can be quite pleasant.
Another lovely analysis. I am especially struck by how you approach what might be a whimsical topic and point us towards how important some of these little things are. Thank you, Robert.
I really appreciate the tone of your narrative, always you seem even-minded, never harsh in your appraisals of later works interpreting Tolkien’s works. It also has the flavor of persons who know a quite a bit about the subject. Thank you!
“'And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain.'" -An Unexpected Party, The Hobbit "...a herb, which they called pipe-weed or leaf, a variety probably of Nicotiana..." - Concerning Pipe-Weed, The Fellowship of the Ring
"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all! 'Thank goodness! ' said Bilbo laughing, and handed him the tobacco jar." - The last phrase of The Hobbit
Hey this is fantastic. I always thought it wasn't clear what it was, but there you have it! I must add that past readings have led me to believe tobacco was once more psychoactive than it is now, probably the more potent effects were gradually lost creating profitable strains that produced big disease resistant plants. People kept smoking. A woman travelling in the 1970's Congo wrote that the local tobacco given to her deep in the bush; a white leaved tobacco was practically like smoking cannabis.
A key point to remember, and a point that is often forgotten with various health, political, ethical and economic factors involved in the discussion of tobacco use, is that up until the 1960's it was used as a "safe" depressant - when someone had anxiety or shock, it was often encouraged to smoke or chew tobacco to "dull the nerves". This was certainly true of Tolkien's experience in the trenches - part of why tobacco use was so prolific was because of its extensive use in the military. Sailors would be encouraged to maintain pipes to keep them from being "idle hands" (it was thought in the past that people being idle was socially and morally dangerous - hence the idiom "idle hands make the devil's work"). Soldiers would be encouraged to smoke to calm them down, especially as military ethics changed from absolute dominance through force to the "profession of arms", where soldiers were expected to act with dignity after a battle (previously, this was only expected of the nobility and gentry, not the common soldier). And you can see this world view of tobacco being very common not just in Tolkien's works, but most works that predate the 1960's and the proliferation of marijuana as a social drug. Smoke, pipe, weed and tobacco are all synonyms historically. It's only been the last few decades that marijuana has usurped the titles and role of tobacco in certain elements of society. The hard drugs lobby has a lot to answer for, but the barstardisation of English and the singling out of tobacco over other drugs - and especially usurping tobacco with marijuana in historic contexts - is by far the worst. Tolkien was no pot smoker. Nor were his characters. No more than the myriad of the contemporaries and predecessors that exist in English fiction. No more than a cigar is synonymous with a joint. The people who do claim such are delusional.
This is such a wonderful channel. Everything about it is amazing. From the images chosen to accompany the speech, to the fact that it's a real and pleasant narration voice instead of a stupid AI voice. Easily the best LOTR channel I've seen.
I just have to say I've been watching your videos for a while now and i absolutely adore them. Keep this shit up. You put it a lot of work in for these and I want you to know that it does not go unnoticed. Thank you for all you do. :)
Regardless of what he called it, it was about the state of mind, not the biological or medicinal effect. Pipeweed or tobacco was about comfort, cosiness, fostering kinship, and taking the time to breathe deeply and slowly. It was about taking a moment away from the horrors.
I completely agree. I never really picked up the habit of the pipe, but a priest friend of mine did, and it is a way for him to be as deliberate in his leisure as he is in his work. Smoking a pipe cannot be rushed, and there is a ritual to it. I can see the appeal even if I lack the patience for it, or perhaps because I lack the patience for it.
A very smooth and flavorful analysis. Thank you! For what it's worth, when I run role playing games I like to have pipe-weed in it. I describe it as smooth smoking and pleasant tasting, with a very low yield intoxicating effect. It essentially does just slightly more than "taking the edge off". I hope Tolkien would find that amusing.
Great video! Though as any serious Tolkien nerd knows the answer is obvious: Tolkien loved a good pipe of tobacco and naturally felt that his beloved Hobbits should do the same
Tolkien loved tobacco and so gave it a more spiritual use by the hobbits. It's not that it gets them high but it's like how lembas invigorates and refreshes you, pipeweed brought them joy and and filled them with a sense of home and wellbeing.
@@grilledleeks6514it quite literally is though, he talks about the actual strain name and it's something like nicotiana or something. I wrote it down once because the name was beautiful
I'mma just say, thank you for being so passionate about your video subjects. There's far too many folks nowadays trying to insert their own opinions and fan fiction in as canon. I love that you research the words of the author instead. Please keep doing this for as long as it makes you happy.
It was pretty simple for me when I read it. Knowing a bit about Tolkien, him putting one of his favorite hobbies (smoking pipe tobacco) into his world was delightful.
I love this, thank you. I especially like how generous you are about different fun interpretations, while also being rigorous as always about what's in the text. The one thing I wish you'd covered is weird but cool anachronism that has a New World crop as an important feature of a story set in a fantasy version of medieval Europe. The same is true of potatoes. You should do a video about those anachronisms - they're one of my favorite subtle narrative tricks Tolkien used. The way the Shire seems to be very much like agrarian England circa the 18th or 19th century, but as the characters travel southeast they seem to travel further back in time to the medieval period.
@@martavdz4972 "4/20 was the birthday of Austrian Born German Politician, and the leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party a fella went by the name of Adolf Hitler" ..... "I didn't even know he was sick"
@@jonathanpidock3006 Pipe tobacco also gets cured and many people enjoy aging their tobacco. Mansion jars are the most common for that and had been looooong before canabis became popular (or even known) in western countries.
Anybody who doesnt understand Mary and Pippens glee at finding tabacoo at Isenguard, or radagast rolling his eyes hasnt had a cigerette after a very long day. Its even a nicer detail to hear in a movie marthon sauromon say that to gandaulf then have the hobbits find his stash.
The Hobbit rather casually introduced pipeweed as tobacco, without an explanation for it's origin, probably unworried that this American grown plant introduced to Anglo culture only a few generations ago wouldn't turn up in a traditional fairy tale. But the Lord of the Rings was much more serious literature, something Tolkien was self-conscious about, to the point of revising some parts of the Hobbit to conform more closely to his other work. Tobacco plants just randomly growing in what was supposed to be prehistoric England was too unrealistic, it undermined the idea that this was a mythology for England, so the origin of pipeweed needed a plausible sounding explanation that could be woven into the greater picture of Middle-Earth. That is probably the main motive for dedicating a whole essay to pipeweed in the prologue of The Lord of the Rings and the connection to Numenor, rather than this information being necessary to understand the role pipeweed plays in building up to the Scouring of the Shire, although the added context makes that element of the story that much richer and life-like.
It's a fictional mythology in an age were the continents had completely different shapes and all kinds of fantasy creatures lived. And you guys argue if it's realistic to have this or that plant? It's also not meant to be a mythology specifically for England. Arda is earth.
@@Eschatonin6666 AH. My apologies. Well, best of luck. That's why I got out of Facebook. ... heck, this very page is starting to convince me this site is just as bad.
@@troffle its actually a mild stimulant and the relaxation only comes after forming withdrawal symptoms. also Tobacco is from America, how is it supposed to get to middle earth?
@@shawnndixon5254 1) I know. Nicotine and harmala alkaloids compounded with monoamine oxidase inhibitors. But that it makes people feel better in the short term might be misinterpreted that way. Also nicotine is being researched for treating conditions like dementia and depression. 2) Yes we supposedly live in the Seventh Age or something similar. But seriously, Middle-earth is not our Earth. There is no such place in Middle-earth as "America" (I knew I liked Middle-earth for a reason). More specifically, from the section "Concerning Pipe-weed" in "Fellowship Of The Ring": "But all accounts agree that Tobold Hornblower of Longbottom in the Southfarthing first grew the true pipe-weed in his gardens in the days of Isengrim the Second, about the year 1070 of Shire-reckoning. The best home-grown still comes from that district, especially the varieties now known as Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby, and Southern Star. ‘How Old Toby came by the plant is not recorded, for to his dying day he would not tell. He knew much about herbs, but he was no traveller. It is said that in his youth he went often to Bree, though he certainly never went further from the Shire than that. It is thus quite possible that he learned of this plant in Bree, where now, at any rate, it grows well on the south slopes of the hill. ... ‘All the same, observations that I have made on my own many journeys south have convinced me that the weed itself is not native to our parts of the world, but came northward from the lower Anduin, whither it was, I suspect, originally brought over Sea by the Men of Westernesse. It grows abundantly in Gondor, and there is richer and larger than in the North, where it is never found wild, and flourishes only in warm sheltered places like Longbottom. The Men of Gondor call it sweet galenas, and esteem it only for the fragrance of its flowers. From that land it must have been carried up the Greenway during the long centuries between the coming of Elendil and our own days." I mean, in The Silmarillion, you get: "Nonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he will come unseen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world." And I could do with a bit of Ulmo listening to the people of the world. This world is not Middle-earth. Middle-earth has no America. And tobacco came to Middle-earth from Over The Sea by the Men of Westernesse.
Why I'm glued to this channel: Robert takes something seemingly obscure-though it's often a question I've asked myself, many times-and not only finds the answer, but reveals something I hadn't considered. In this case, it's something about Saruman. He is "the man of skill," the white hand that can make anything, but he's remarkable short on ideas and has to borrow other people's-whether it's Sauron's ringmaking or Gandalf's love of pipeweed. Gandalf later remarks that Saruman missed his calling as a jester-he could have earned his keep imitating his lord's councillors. For a wizard of such power, he comes off as a might-have-been.
And from Jackson's production staff. Also, worst, people themselves just wanting to believe it is. What's even sadder is Tolkien WROTE about this. In Letter 297, he wrote: "If published, I do object to them, when (as they usually do) they appear to be unauthentic embroideries on my work, throwing light only on the state of mind of their contrivers, not on me or on my actual intention and procedure."
@@troffle That could apply to many things in Tolkien and to many authors. On this topic, it is extremely wishful thinking that there would be a universe in which MJ retained its entertainment value without being a disability in adventuring.
@@josephfisher426 thank you, yes. I have written elsewhere it's ridiculous to think people would smoke weed and then go into battle against orcs. I regret not replying with "you should try it". I'm at the point where I wish the Natural Selection method would take over.
Fun fact, there's a cherry and vanilla aromatic blend of Cavendish tobacco called hobitsweed and it is the most delicious pipe tobacco I've ever tasted. No longer manyfactured from the original maker, a company called 4noggins makes a supposed match of the flavor profile. Sooo good
It's easy to forget, in the shadow of our own culture's fascination with marijuana, how important tobacco was to the world economy 500 years ago. Tobacco was even thought to have medicinal properties, especially for those with respiratory illnesses. So, in an age when tuberculosis and pneumonia were widespread, it's easy to see why tobacco would be popular as a medicine. We can still see this today -- certain subsectors of our American society still view menthol-flavoured tobacco as "healthful" and "curative," especially for respiratory illnesses. The world trade in tobacco was almost as important as the world trade in sugar. Tobacco grows best in the warm, humid climates of the Deep South in the US, and in the Caribbean, as does sugar cane. And because it is so labor intensive, it could only be profitable if slave labor was employed for its production -- just like sugar. While public health entities have done a bang up job of educating the American public as to the harms of tobacco, the rest of the world has not been so easily convinced. In other cultures around the world, tobacco is seen as simply a harmless pleasure. In fact, in countries where alcohol is forbidden by religious taboo, smoking is quite common. In Europe, South America, Africa, and Asia, smoking tobacco is simply seen as a pleasant and harmless indulgence. It does not hold the Puritan stigma of "vice" as it does in the United States. So, given the time and place in which Tolkien was writing, I suspect he did intend "pipe weed" to be based on tobacco, rather than marijuana, which did not become popular in world culture until much later. Another clue to the effect time has had on the LOTR: When Tolkien created the character of Gollum, he had Gollum eating raw fish as an indicator of how loathesome a character he was. When Peter Jackson's films were finally screened in California, the whole theater laughed -- sushi was by that time such an integral part of California culture that the reference was funny, not revolting. In the same way, the public/international perception of tobacco in the early 1930's in England is not the same as its perception today.
I saw the LOTR movies in theaters, in California. In fact, in Los Angeles, a very diverse place. Absolutely NOBODY laughed when Gollum bit a chunk out of the fish he just pulled from the water. If you did the same, and people laughed, it had more to do with smoking non-pipe weed before the movie than it did with "hey, he's eating sushi, and those people are freaked out! Lame!"
Perhaps Tolkien changed the name for the sequel because some people took offense to people smoking tobacco in a children's book. I know presenting drinking alcohol in positive light was deemed inappropriate at the time, it's possible tobacco was viewed similarly though I'm not sure I don't think he even thought of cannabis when writing it though. Cannabis was not commonly used in the UK when the book was written, nor did they call it "weed" ("locoweed" was a slang word for cannabis but not just "weed" afaik, that is newer)
Its been almost 3 decades since i first heard of Tolkiens Hobbit and LotR, and through all these years of delving into his world, my favorite part of the culture/lore side of it was finding In Deep Geek. Thank you Robert, for your donations and stories which only makes me love Tolkien amd tge world he had created gor us.
I'd like to think that "a traveler" from 2:40 was one of the rangers. No one from the north has business in the south and no one of the south has business in the far north. Except that one family of rangers. Just like Aragorn visited Minas Tirith "once before, a long time ago", his (great) grandfather also visited the city. And on his his journey he found and brought with him this herb.
That scene at Isengard with Pippin and Merry was actually one of several takes they did, each one being different, some playing it straight, some even more "smacked up" (to quote them) than the one they settled on. I think it was a good choice cinematically because it was a bit of light heartedness after period of seriousness in the movie, but not over done. They got the tone about right, even if it wasn't a strict adherence with the lore.
Well, the word weed originally doesn't mean specifically cannabis, but just any wild plant in general. I would've thought it was obvious what pipweed is: a wild plant smoked in a pipe, no vague "it is what you want it to be" meaning necessary, the prologue just being there to clarify the importance of it in the story.
Did some quick reading, and it appears that weed didn’t even become a popular nickname for cannabis in Britain until the 1980s. Obviously long after the books were written.
@@greganderson6371 yeah, what's sad is this video is probably just overanalyzing to justify the use of weed in real life, which just ends up misinterpreting Tolkein's work
it's actually really funny to me that people thought it might be anything other than just tobacco, always seemed pretty obvious to me the way it was written but still learned a lot else about it from this vid thanks!
The book makes it pretty clear it's either tobacco or something very close to it, but the movies don't have that exposited anywhere and the Peter Jackson movies have what are very clearly meant to be weed jokes so it's easy to see where the confusion comes from.
@@WILLNOTCOMPLY72 Not true. "Smoking and Cognition", PubMed article DOI 10.2174 by Campos, Srebrisky and Castaldelli-Maia: "Smoking reinforcement could be due to the initial cognitive improvement [...] However, heavy smoking is associated with cognitive impairment and cognitive decline in middle age."
@@shawnndixon5254 have you ever known a smoker? doesn't matter what it technically is, they experience it as something that relaxes them, so it makes sense that Tolkien, a smoker, would write a tobacco analog that way.
Any stuff that gets a wizard off is, in my mind, more that merely tobacco. In the same way lembas isn't merely bread, pipe weed is special and magical.
A thing to remember about tobacco historically, is that today tobacco is dominated by Virginia and Turkish style, which basically means the tobacco is toasted in the drying. This kills psychoactive effects and enhances stimulate effects. This is what commercial forces have found to sell best, but in WWI and before, especially outside the US, other types existed. With very psychoactive effects. Tobacco culture was very different and prevalent. For example, even into WWI many regular soldiers were instructed by their officers ti constantly pass around the officers pipe and smoke. This was because, filling in a pipe was considered a masculine achievement so people tried to speed run it. But especially pipe tobacco at that time was cured differently and was probably in come cases akin to psychoactive mushrooms. So, a bit harder to chain smoke. We forget that tobacco has a history of its own, and has been different things in different places.
In Deep Geeks mentioned in some other uploads that sometimes old videos get revised or updated in some way, and the changed one is a new upload. Might not be much different from the old one, but there was likely a change that happened, and this is the "new" replacement
@@gummybread I would assume the marijuana references might have hindered monetization and so were cut and the video was slightly reworked, or maybe that’s not the case at all and I’m delusional! Either way, I won’t ever turn my nose up at an IDG episode, even if I’ve already seen it
You're correct about everything that you've said, but you didn't need to mention the passage with the company at Isengard, or the letter even, because in the prologue (which you mentioned but iirc only in relation to the story about Old Toby) it even mentions not only that it is tobacco, but uses the scientific terminology (he says it's of the genus "nicotiana")
Imagine Yavanna singing pipeweed into creation during the Music of the Ainur. Eru Iluvatar: 🎶All of Creation! And The Children: Elves and Men. 🎶 Melkor: 🎶D̴̗͑͝i̷̖͍͊͊s̸̜̔͠c̶͕̏ò̶ͅṟ̸͉̓̿d̷͓̝̍̈́ ̷͚̈́̽ 🎶 Yavanna: 🎶Weeeeeeeeeeeed! 🎶
I'm not a smoker, but I've worked physical labor jobs with people who WERE smokers, and tobacco seems likely for this "pipeweed." When I would drive the truck to a construction site with materials to deliver with a coworker of mine, he would occasionally ask me if it was okay with me if he smoked while we were driving. My response was always, "crack open your window a bit and it's fine with me!" He always seemed more relaxed after a cigarette.
As someone who enjoys smoking a pipe of tobacco in the evening, i can let you know that it is indeed calming and relaxing. I have no idea why people think it HAS to be marijuana because it "relaxes you."
I think smoking weed might be more mainstream than tobacco now, weirdly enough - or at least it's more socially acceptable - so a lot of people don't seem to understand the psychological benefits of nicotine.
@@LangstonDev also tobacco companies kinda burned (pun not intended) any public good will with all the crap they suppressed like cancer risks and even the effects it would have on pregnancies. Not helping matters were the attempts to appeal to kids with crap like Joe Camel.
well i cant say ive ever smoked a Tobbaco pipe that made me relax more than Cannabis pipes. i also cant say Tolkien ever interested me. what i know contradicts popular theory but if every fan insists a mild stimulant is what got Gandalf relaxing that much its not my place to argue.
Tobacco is known as a stimulate so it can not be that. During the days of Tolkein tobacco was widely smoked in pipes as a pipe softens the taste and heat from the hot bowl. My guess is it was an imaginary weed grown in the wilds of Buckland and utilized for its enjoyable smell, taste and calming effect giving the imbiber the ability to reflect and contemplate the days stresses and calming ones nerves. Not like the ganja of today when injested knocks one out unenjoyably, which is nothing like the grass from the sixties which most of was much less intoxicating and more just .ildly relaxing like a cold brew.
Marijuana is enjoying a cultural resurgence, and tobacco is frowned on with smoking bans. It makes sense that the movies bend the association in that direction
Tobacco has a bad name because of cigarettes. The nicotine found in tobacco has recently been found to have beneficial effects when taken in moderation and without additives. I myself partake of both but find that tobacco is for day time while cannabis works best in the late afternoon before sunset
What kills me is that smoking and soldiering go hand in hand, the fact Tolkien, a former soldier would make smoking a big part of his works doesn't surprise me. The scene from the hobbit movie of gandalf cleaning his pipe after the battle makes me think of this old quote from Che guevara "a smoke in times of rest is a companion to the solitary soldier"
It's tobacco. Look at the time this was written in. And nowhere does it say that it makes anybody act high. And the idea that it was sweet smelling would lead it to believe it's tobacco which does smell sweet out in the field. I've never heard anyone say marijuana smells sweet in the field. Next people will be saying that the droughts that Treebeard gave Merry and Pippin was really LSD.
Plus, Tolkien was Catholic, and born when he was. Yep, definitely tobacco. Even in the US, until 1934, cannabis was only used in oil form for headaches and such. It was medicine, and no one would have smoked the leaves (which, I agree, do NOT smell lovely and sweet lol). I’m not sure about the UK’s laws, but that was the sitch in the US.
@@mrs.c1755 Nobody smokes marijuana leaves to this day, so there's your clue that it is, in fact, tobacco: it's the leaves they smoke, not the flower. However, my grandfather, a humble farmer, grew hemp. Mainly for the fiber, it's a very versatile plant. He said they would occasionally smoke "some of it" because it made the hard labor days in the field go by easier. It was called "Knaster".
I mean, "Sweet Galenas" is pretty thoroughly established as a *species* of tobacco but not strictly the same as we have in this more prosaic state of imagination. Less addictive, less harmful to your health, more calming... there's nothing to say that it DOESN'T have a mild euphoric effect as well. I find it entirely plausible that Pipeweed is the conceptual midpoint between "real" tobacco and "real" weed.
Tobacco - mainly nicotine - has psychological impacts. For many, including myself, it's calming and focusing. There's a reason why so many are addicted to it, including Tolkien himself. It's funny all the people arguing it's THC because it has a psychological effect. You must've never smoked tobacco...
The movies kinda did a lot of harm to the subject of pipe weed. Turning into pot instead of just straight up tobacco. So now people who only know LotR from the movies all just assuming everyone was high.
My headcanon was always that pipeweed was just tobacco that hadnt been subjected to serious domestication, most of our crops come from plants that are much smaller in the wild and it doesnt make sense for the large leaves of tobacco plants to be called 'weeds', so in tolkiens universe pieweed is tobacco that comes from a much smaller plant that could be more aptly described as a 'weed'. And perhaps longbottom leaf is a form of tobacco that hales from a plant much more similar to what we'd call a tobacco plant that just hasnt caught on yet.
I mean, it's tobacco, sure. But it's had a very different history of cultivation from it's wild type - the sweet galenas - to it's current form than real world commercially grown varieties of tobacco. It is therefore possible that pipe-weed may have a lower nicotine content; or Dwarves, Wizards and Hobbits may be different enough from Men that they experience more of the anxiolytic effects of nicotine.
... I just want to congratulate and thank you on the single most educated and intelligent response I've seen on this entire page that had decimated my faith in human nature because the page went from "weed lol" to "Tolkien's writing means nothing, I'm taking away that it's weed and that's valid just like I'm valid". Thank you.
Having just rewatched the trilogy, I find it hard to believe anyone can, in good faith, interpret pipeweed as marijuana. Not a single character ever seems "high" after smoking it. There are never any changes in speech or mannerisms. It just looks like a moment of relaxation, an even milder effect than the modern cigarette. Mary & Pippin are in good spirits when they find it because... they're just really happy. They just found barrels of pipeweed & good food, AND they just won a battle after having been POWs to orcs for some time. I was looking for examples that would make pipeweed weed, but in the original trilogy there aren't any.
Can I throw in one more reason, even based on the movies and not the books, for believing it's just tobacco? Can you imagine people whose LIVES depended on their fighting skills and staying clear-headed getting stoned? Can you imagine Boromir and Aragorn getting high? Reading the comments from people here arguing so hard for it being marijuana has helped me lose a lot of faith in humanity.
@@cruz92895 You can imagine that, but it doesn't work. It's not just a VERY DIFFERENT kind of conflict, it's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD. That's the problem with all the Hollywood writers now - they're falsely imagining these fictional worlds as being their own stupid little backyard of American urbanity. The Vietnam was is the one that created the name "post-traumatic stress disorder". Vietnam had civilian guerrila action, heavily corrupt governments and American civilians protesting the atrocities. In Tolkien's world, a company of soldiers breaking their oath is such a transgression against the laws of nature and supernature, they become A COMPANY OF VENGEFUL GHOSTS held until released by the Rightful King. That's how important honour and honesty were. You didn't have IEDs or villagers friendly half a day earlier committing murder in the night. People were getting stoned out of their skulls at Woodstock while Vietnam was happening. What local lord in the outskirts of Rohan or Minas Tirith is going to have SUBSISTENCE-LEVEL FARMERS getting stoned instead of working on crops? The SHIRE was genteel and urbane and you saw how well Frodo and Sam got through their trials and COULD NOT HAVE DONE SO if they were stoned, they had Galadriel's blessing. Merry and Pippin didn't go through the same degree of horror, yet they too were changed. But they had Ent-draughts to make them STRONGER, not to get them stoned. I get you can imagine that, but look at the situations and reconsider. Anybody convinced it was weed, like the evident decerebrate above, is too small-minded and intellectually incapable to understand a different kind of world.
Tobacco is the logical choice and makes sense. But considering Middle Earth, it's probably something similar to, but not exactly like, either tobacco or hemp. We can have our edibles and smoke them, too! ;-)
Since Professor Tolkien has been an avid pipe smoker it's nothing but plain old tobacco, period. Being an connoisseur of tobacco, especially cigarillos, myself, I understand very well why he saw it worth to be added to his work.
To be fair, as a smoker of both cannabis and pipe-tobacco, I can honestly say the unlike cigarettes, there is a significantly more noticeable relaxation effect from a pipe. I'm no chemist, or pharmacologist, but it seems simply to me that the person ingesting gets a much larger dose of nicotine in a much shorter time when smoking a pipe, and thus feels greater effect. And, to a non-smoker or someone who hasn't had any in quite some time, a packed pipe of strong tobacco may honestly disorient a person as much as something like cannabis. The cultivation of tobacco, processing of it, and conversion into cigarettes was very much intended (from a capitalistic point of view) to make it palatable and regular to the everyday person. If one were to cultivate a particularly strong strain, like Old Toby, it is totally reasonable to expect strong and lasting effects. I would also note that while there is a habit-forming sense of addiction involved in the cannabis culture and the plant itself, nicotine is a remarkably addictive thing in the realm of drugs. I think you are right in saying that it doesn't really matter. Tolkien meant what he meant, but we as readers are allowed to take what we'd like from these stories. I, myself, always saw it as tobacco. It is an historic trope to have wise-men and sages smoking a pipe. It fit perfect for Gandalf... and gives a nod to the simple wisdom of the Shire-folk in that they tend to just mind their own business and live life to its fullest. Hobbit-life really sounds pretty appealing.
Is it possible it might have something to do with the "ritual" around the pipe rather than with anything in it? I'm from a mate-drinking country and even though it's technically a stimulant, it usually carries a calming, bonding experience around it that sort of feels and looks like preparing a pipe.
This is an updated version of a video first uploaded in February 2021.
Trueeee!
It was a good one though, enjoyable and heartwarming
Thanks. I thought I remembered a video on this.
I was gonna say this feels familiar haha ❤
That explains the oppressive sense of deja vu.
Characterising Saruman as an uptight secret smoker is a hilarious read
The paranoia…it’ll getcha!!😂😂
@@davewatchedthat The palantir was his lava lamp.
Undisputed LOTR nightmare blunt rotation participant.
I like that we also see that he has a whole barrel of the stuff
@@JohnPeacekeeper In the books, it’s a whole storeroom, haha. Barrel after barrel after barrel.
This explains a lot especially Gandalf "visiting" The Shire regularly with his cart and donkey.
Classic ❤😂
Smoke and alcohol predate the written word
Dude was buying cartloads of the stuff
gandalf the green
Yeah yeah yeah he loves the hobbits
I love how this channel treats Tolkien's work. Tolkien's original intention is always displayed, but there's no harsh criticism of people who have alternate interpretations, or of how the movies changed things. It doesn't feel as elitist or zealous as some people who talk about LOTR. It's just a very informative and friendly community around here, which feels like the vibe Tolkien would've wanted from his fans.
I think that's honestly what Tolkien would have appreciated about this community. No matter what his opinions of the adaptations themselves were, I feel he would have taken great joy in seeing people interpreting and especially re-interpreting his work countless times as ages past.
@@etienneporras7252
The evidence implies that this is very untrue and you are extremely mistaken.
1)
"343 From a letter to Sterling Lanier
21 November 1972
I am glad to know that you were awarded a prize, but not surprised that it proved useless. I had a similar disappointment when a drinking goblet arrived (from a fan) which proved to be of steel engraved with the terrible words seen on the Ring. I of course have never drunk from it, but use it for tobacco ash."
If the re-interpretation runs contrary to his intended meaning, then he would literally ash all over it.
2)
Letter 292 has the explanatory note "Tolkien had been sent details of a proposed 'sequel' to The Lord of the Rings that a 'fan' was going to write himself". And says:
"I do not know what the legal position is, I suppose that since one cannot claim property in inventing proper names, that there is no legal obstacle to this young ass publishing his sequel, if he could find any publisher, either respectable or disreputable, who would accept such tripe.
I have merely informed him that I have forwarded his letter and samples to you. I think that a suitable letter from Allen & Unwin might be more effective than one from me. I once had a similar proposal, couched in the most obsequious terms, from a young woman, and when I replied in the negative, I received a most vituperative letter."
3)
From letter 297:
"But I remain puzzled, and indeed sometimes irritated, by many of the guesses at the 'sources' of the nomenclature, and theories or fancies concerning hidden meanings. These seem to me no more than private amusements, and as such I have no right or power to object to them, though they are, I think, valueless for the elucidation or interpretation of my fiction. If published,111 I do object to them, when (as they usually do) they appear to be unauthentic embroideries on my work, throwing light only on the state of mind of their contrivers, not on me or on my actual intention and procedure."
I think you making this claim after yourself saying "No matter what his opinions of the adaptations themselves were", after the clarifications he himself made in THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-FOUR LETTERS is a terrible mistake and opens the way to people destroying his work.
Let me not even make the obvious reference. How about: as somebody who has read books by Isaac Asimov, the AppleTV+ series "Foundation" is a horrifying, miserable betrayal of every single aspect of the Asimov books. An entire generation will grow up thinking that Asimov's writing was utter superstition-loving badly-written trash.
@@troffle wat
@@squidikka What?
@@troffleTranslate this to something someone without a degree in 20th level English can understand
South Africa does cultivate and consume an extremely large amount of Cannabis. The cultivars Power Plant and Durban Poison were both developed there.
Okay so like america does it better ?
@ThedeadlyOG the Durban Poison grown in America is pretty nice. BUT I BET when grown over in South Africa OUTDOORS. It becomes an entirely different product, don't let ANYONE fool you. A Cannabis cultivar that I'd grown outdoors AND WHERE it originates from IS IDEAL. You are NOT going to be able to completely replicate it entirely under grow lights.
The gentics may have originated in South Africa but Durbon poison was bred by skunkman Sam in California
@@elijahwilson1422 Fully. I've smoked lots of indoor and outdoor weed, and there's something about outdoor that indoor just doesn't have.
@@elijahwilson1422pretty sure he was like 3-4 years old when he lived in south Africa. Don't think he picked up a habit in that time lol. I suppose his parents could have, and maybe he learned of it from them, but still seems like a stretch.
There are two types of smokers, something Tolkien would have known.
The first are those who just feed an addiction. They will smoke anything, usually the cheapest.
The second is the person who sees smoking as a ritual. Who lovingly blends various types, to form something to aid in meditating upon great things.
Like most drugs, the form is important. Like comparing grain alcohol to beer.
Tobacco cigarettes are the crack of the nicotine world, you smoke one, get a rush, want another.
Cigars you shove a wad of tobacco in your mouth, don't inhale much, it hits slower and wears off slower.
Pipes are a lot of trouble,you need to have a bunch of them and clean them often or you get a mouthful of tar. So I was too lazy to get into that and can't comment much. I suspect they are closer to cigars. Someone gave me some probably stale native American "ceremonial mix" which I did have to smoke in a pipe. It was quite mild. There's nothing psychoactive in it that I could tell but tobacco.
I quit before vapes, don't want to start again so not gonna try it.
Anyway be very careful with tobacco. Everyone I know that started as a young teenager was *never* able to quit.
I always imagined the long bottom leaf as a splif that was 75% pipe tobacco and 25% cannabis. But that’s my projection because I feel that particularly ratio smoked out a wooden pipe is the only way to go!
Well said.
@@davemccage7918do you inhale it? i’m wondering because i like pipe tobacco and cannabis but i don’t put them together because i inhale weed and i don’t inhale tobacco
Sounds like you're saying people smoke what they can afford. No ones going to choose the cheap stuff if they don't have to.
A gateway drug to cooking mithril
The Arkenstone is pure glass bro
Mith heads
Methril
Just you stick to Farmer Maggot's mushrooms!
Yall funny asf 😂
I love how thoroughly you present topics that are "world important" rather than "plot important" (to use your words). It's such a nice diving into and relishing the atmosphere of a book.
"No one can know I smoke if I just buy ALL of the pipeweed"
Saruman the stoner.
I did not want to be the one to increase the like count to 70. So funny. I knew at least one weed miser in my day...
Smoke pipe weed everyday!
We’ve all tried to do it.
@@Firehorse40 “I’m Mr Weed-miser, I’m Mr Toke.
I cornered the Shire, with every puff I smoke”
If you think Tolkien was writing about a leaf that's psychoactive like marijuana, you don't know Tolkien.
Smoking "Pipeweed" and watching LoTR is my greatest joy. In the past year, I have probably watched the trilogy about 50 times, best use of a day off.
Dope show, bro show, ya know show?
The main reason for Tolkien using the word "pipe weed" instead of "tobacco" when it's referenced by LotR's characters is etymological. Tolkien was a philologist specialized in old Germanic languages and his Legendarium is inspired by Germanic myths and languages. LotR was written as a more serious story than The Hobbit, with Tolkien being more aware of a need for consistency within the Legendarium. Therefore, when writing LotR, he's aware of the etymological problem of characters using the word "tobacco", a word rooted in a non-Germanic language, in a world based on Germanic mythology where people speak Germanic-based languages. That's why he prefers using the Germanic-rooted term "pipe weed". Merry still uses the word "tobacco" once. This could be a slip on Tolkien's part, or it could've done intentionally, as a way to make absolutely clear to the reader that pipe weed is tobacco (as if the explicit reference to tobacco in the glossary wasn't enough).
Honestly, when there's an official glossary saying that "tobacco" is "pipe weed", I can't understand how anyone can seriously defend Tolkien was writing about marijuana. Some marijuana users can be very obnoxious and can make very wild claims to promote marijuana's acceptance, and this is certainly part of that phenomenon. I've had friends tell me about incredible (and totally made-up) health benefits of smoking marijuana. Geez, it's just a thing that you smoke to feel good. There's no need to make a fool of yourself when promoting it.
I enjoy how there is a literal variant of the plant called “Old Toby” as a clear reference to tobacco, but people still try twisting it into marijuana 😂
Sheeesh now I know why Gandalf was a servant of the secret fire 🔥 😎
10 bucks says Gandalf is a big Bob Marley fan.
@@kellyjorgenson5840the three little birds sang at his doorstep too! 🐦🎶 🐦🎶 🐦
He's smoking that fire 🔥 bud
@@kellyjorgenson5840 Ganjalf
*swish*
Nothing but net.
I have a new internet hero.
I'm glad we can still enjoy the occasional smoke, even in the seventh age.
A commenter is never late. Nor is he early. He comments precisely when he means to
Nice
Well done
This is the best comment I've ever read. Period.
This guys high 😂
About that I cannot possibly comment
It is one of the great tragedies of our time that the noble and gentle art of pipe smoking has become an endangered pastime, unjustly lumped in with cigarette smoking as something to be avoided, shunned, and despised. The fact remains that the great artisanal pipeweedages like those of G.L. Pease, truly natural, and never adulterated with chemical additives, provide benefits that will never be realized let alone appreciated by those who cannot comprehend them. Yet, those who know, know.
Hello Robert. I watched alot of your Videos and i just want you to know that you are doing a great thing and i am grateful. Keep it up and i wish you best for everything.
I love what you say about readers taking what is it meaningful to them out of the story, as opposed to a pedantic allegory. You've brought something meaningful to something as seemingly inconsequential as pipeweed, which, as you point out, is actually very important. Thank you, as always, for your insightful and brilliant analysis!
“The best homegrown still comes from that district” 👌
fr I'm smokin that straight Longbottom 🍃🍃🌬
Humboldt County?
Damn that southern shire fire
They need to add that Shire strain to my local dispo
My grandfather was a pipe smoker, so I've always known intrinsically what pipe weed was, particularly in that my first ever sight of Tolkien was the black and white photo of him smoking a pipe on the back cover of the edition I owned.
My grandfather had a whole circular rack of pipes, owning more than a dozen ranging from work pipes to ornate 'special occasion' pipes.
Likewise, at any given time, he'd have on hand between 3 and 5 different brands/flavors of pipe tobacco.
And I specify 'pipe' tobacco because it's as completely different from cigar or cigarette tobacco as it's possible to be while remaining tobacco. Moisture level is different, drying process is different, even cut is different.
My grandfather smoked a pipe too, but quit abruptly when I was born with severe asthma. I've come across pipe smokers now and then and my God, the stench! I've been in chemical plants that smelled better.
@@foo219 Here's a funny thing. It used to be a thing to sprinkle (unburnt) pipe tobacco on the carpet to make the house smell better. While I've never smoked, there are several different pipe tobaccos I really enjoy the aroma of. Not the smoke, but the tobacco.
@@TheBetterManInBlack I bet! Dried herbs have been used for that for ages.
I love the smell of a tobacco shop. Cant stand the acrid smell of smoke. @TheBetterManInBlack
@@DeepFleeceheart Oddly, while I totally agree when speaking of cigars or cigarettes, and, to be honest, cheap pipe tobacco, there are some pipe tobaccos whose fragrance while burning can be quite pleasant.
The Saruman line about the "halfling leaf" made me roll my eyes in the cinema, as did much of the rest of the movie.
Another lovely analysis. I am especially struck by how you approach what might be a whimsical topic and point us towards how important some of these little things are. Thank you, Robert.
Gandalfs secret to remaining so calm through such incredible events was bhutanese shadow garden grown dark evil pack
Legolas: "A Balrog of Morgoth! We are doomed!"
Gandalf: *hits bong* "Chill, bruh... I got this..."
@@MsAlliwannadoisdance "Fly, my dudes. Fly."
This shit is straight outa Mordor. This shit is what shot Boromir. RIP my ni66a fr dawg.
Joe Biden approves this message
Run you fools don't let it take my stash 😂😂😂
That is why they are the race that can carry the ring.
Yeah when you are stoned you are friendly 😂
They have Tegridy
Aragorn CLEARLY brought the weed from the Elves. Bro is smokin it at the prancinpl pony when we meet em lol
I really appreciate the tone of your narrative, always you seem even-minded, never harsh in your appraisals of later works interpreting Tolkien’s works. It also has the flavor of persons who know a quite a bit about the subject. Thank you!
Old Toby never let me down 😂
No matter where you go, Old Toby knows how to get the best Herb
If the black riders mess with old toby we finna riot
It was so fun to grow this in the online game. You blew out dragon shaped smoke.
_He doesn't gives you up_ nor he _won't make you down_ because he was *high*
“'And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain.'" -An Unexpected Party, The Hobbit
"...a herb, which they called pipe-weed or leaf, a variety probably of Nicotiana..." - Concerning Pipe-Weed, The Fellowship of the Ring
"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all! 'Thank goodness! ' said Bilbo laughing, and handed him the tobacco jar." - The last phrase of The Hobbit
key word there is "probably"
People want it to be Weed so bad when its just not
@@ExtraVictory What makes you think that? Just reading the words, the "probably" is what makes it uncertain, not some badly desired want of People.
@@miamicatfish6724 its not uncertain at all lmao. The hobbit is very clear that its tobacco, and is indeed a prequel to LOTR. Its not weed
"Nature's bounty is my only treasure" -Radagast the Dank
Apparently, he enjoyed his shrooms, too. hahaha
Hey this is fantastic. I always thought it wasn't clear what it was, but there you have it! I must add that past readings have led me to believe tobacco was once more psychoactive than it is now, probably the more potent effects were gradually lost creating profitable strains that produced big disease resistant plants. People kept smoking. A woman travelling in the 1970's Congo wrote that the local tobacco given to her deep in the bush; a white leaved tobacco was practically like smoking cannabis.
A key point to remember, and a point that is often forgotten with various health, political, ethical and economic factors involved in the discussion of tobacco use, is that up until the 1960's it was used as a "safe" depressant - when someone had anxiety or shock, it was often encouraged to smoke or chew tobacco to "dull the nerves". This was certainly true of Tolkien's experience in the trenches - part of why tobacco use was so prolific was because of its extensive use in the military. Sailors would be encouraged to maintain pipes to keep them from being "idle hands" (it was thought in the past that people being idle was socially and morally dangerous - hence the idiom "idle hands make the devil's work"). Soldiers would be encouraged to smoke to calm them down, especially as military ethics changed from absolute dominance through force to the "profession of arms", where soldiers were expected to act with dignity after a battle (previously, this was only expected of the nobility and gentry, not the common soldier). And you can see this world view of tobacco being very common not just in Tolkien's works, but most works that predate the 1960's and the proliferation of marijuana as a social drug. Smoke, pipe, weed and tobacco are all synonyms historically. It's only been the last few decades that marijuana has usurped the titles and role of tobacco in certain elements of society. The hard drugs lobby has a lot to answer for, but the barstardisation of English and the singling out of tobacco over other drugs - and especially usurping tobacco with marijuana in historic contexts - is by far the worst. Tolkien was no pot smoker. Nor were his characters. No more than the myriad of the contemporaries and predecessors that exist in English fiction. No more than a cigar is synonymous with a joint. The people who do claim such are delusional.
I like to think they was pot smokers. The shire is peaceful and the perfect place to roll up.
This is such a wonderful channel. Everything about it is amazing. From the images chosen to accompany the speech, to the fact that it's a real and pleasant narration voice instead of a stupid AI voice. Easily the best LOTR channel I've seen.
I just have to say I've been watching your videos for a while now and i absolutely adore them. Keep this shit up. You put it a lot of work in for these and I want you to know that it does not go unnoticed. Thank you for all you do. :)
Regardless of what he called it, it was about the state of mind, not the biological or medicinal effect. Pipeweed or tobacco was about comfort, cosiness, fostering kinship, and taking the time to breathe deeply and slowly. It was about taking a moment away from the horrors.
This is the best explanation I’ve ever read pertaining to it.
@@wizardvrse7338 Thank you. x
I completely agree. I never really picked up the habit of the pipe, but a priest friend of mine did, and it is a way for him to be as deliberate in his leisure as he is in his work. Smoking a pipe cannot be rushed, and there is a ritual to it. I can see the appeal even if I lack the patience for it, or perhaps because I lack the patience for it.
@@AndyMcGehee What a lovely observation Andy!
❤ as in many cultures.
A very smooth and flavorful analysis. Thank you!
For what it's worth, when I run role playing games I like to have pipe-weed in it. I describe it as smooth smoking and pleasant tasting, with a very low yield intoxicating effect. It essentially does just slightly more than "taking the edge off". I hope Tolkien would find that amusing.
Great video! Though as any serious Tolkien nerd knows the answer is obvious: Tolkien loved a good pipe of tobacco and naturally felt that his beloved Hobbits should do the same
Some of that sticky Samwise Ganja
SanSamwisa: Seedless
Mr indicill
He's got the last light of the 2 trees if you know what I'm saying
Exactly 😂
"Got no bugs, no stems or seeds, Samwise Ganja is good pipeweed!" 😮💨
Tolkien loved tobacco and so gave it a more spiritual use by the hobbits. It's not that it gets them high but it's like how lembas invigorates and refreshes you, pipeweed brought them joy and and filled them with a sense of home and wellbeing.
Nah it isn't tobacco
I.e, weed and feeling pleasantly stoned
Why not both? It's common to mix them in the UK and it could be in Middle Earth too.
@@ContactsNfilters good point!
@@grilledleeks6514it quite literally is though, he talks about the actual strain name and it's something like nicotiana or something. I wrote it down once because the name was beautiful
I'mma just say, thank you for being so passionate about your video subjects. There's far too many folks nowadays trying to insert their own opinions and fan fiction in as canon. I love that you research the words of the author instead. Please keep doing this for as long as it makes you happy.
It was pretty simple for me when I read it. Knowing a bit about Tolkien, him putting one of his favorite hobbies (smoking pipe tobacco) into his world was delightful.
I love this, thank you. I especially like how generous you are about different fun interpretations, while also being rigorous as always about what's in the text. The one thing I wish you'd covered is weird but cool anachronism that has a New World crop as an important feature of a story set in a fantasy version of medieval Europe. The same is true of potatoes. You should do a video about those anachronisms - they're one of my favorite subtle narrative tricks Tolkien used. The way the Shire seems to be very much like agrarian England circa the 18th or 19th century, but as the characters travel southeast they seem to travel further back in time to the medieval period.
shoulda waited 5 days to upload this one honestly, 4/20 would prolly done well for a topic like this.
A missed opportunity indeed
Yeah
Dropped the bong on this one
Hitler´s birthday? As in, had Hitler just relaxed with a pipe by a fire, the world could have avoided a war...
@@martavdz4972
"4/20 was the birthday of Austrian Born German Politician,
and the leader of the National Socialist
German Workers Party
a fella went by the name of Adolf Hitler"
.....
"I didn't even know he was sick"
I am glad that someone else has pointed out that 4/20 is Adolf Hitler's Birthday!!!
I'm enjoying a little pipeweed right now!
I wish I was
Cheers! **raises pipe in the fashion of making a toast**
Me too! Let's smoke one for King Aragorn.
I gave up tobacco almost two years ago, and do not regret it. Still, I have an e-cigarette in my hand now.
Likewise!!
The Hobbit ends with Bilbo Passing a jar of Pipeweed to Gandalf
A jar? That proves it’s marijuana. It has to be cured and a lot of people use those mason jars.
@@jonathanpidock3006Pipe tobacco is commonly kept in jars, too, for the record.
"The Hobbit ends with Bilbo Passing a jar of Pipeweed to Gandalf" He does not. He hands him "the TOBACCO jar".
@@jonathanpidock3006 Pipe tobacco also gets cured and many people enjoy aging their tobacco. Mansion jars are the most common for that and had been looooong before canabis became popular (or even known) in western countries.
@@Nickname-hier-einfuegen so actual mason jars have been around longer than western culture? It was a joke btw.
Anybody who doesnt understand Mary and Pippens glee at finding tabacoo at Isenguard, or radagast rolling his eyes hasnt had a cigerette after a very long day.
Its even a nicer detail to hear in a movie marthon sauromon say that to gandaulf then have the hobbits find his stash.
Good vid, and good take on alternate interpretations of pipeweed. Love the attitude, so you get a sub for that alone.
The Hobbit rather casually introduced pipeweed as tobacco, without an explanation for it's origin, probably unworried that this American grown plant introduced to Anglo culture only a few generations ago wouldn't turn up in a traditional fairy tale. But the Lord of the Rings was much more serious literature, something Tolkien was self-conscious about, to the point of revising some parts of the Hobbit to conform more closely to his other work. Tobacco plants just randomly growing in what was supposed to be prehistoric England was too unrealistic, it undermined the idea that this was a mythology for England, so the origin of pipeweed needed a plausible sounding explanation that could be woven into the greater picture of Middle-Earth. That is probably the main motive for dedicating a whole essay to pipeweed in the prologue of The Lord of the Rings and the connection to Numenor, rather than this information being necessary to understand the role pipeweed plays in building up to the Scouring of the Shire, although the added context makes that element of the story that much richer and life-like.
This is a very well thought out argument.
It's also ridiculous and can be easily proven incorrect with the potato.
@@Loreweavver The potatoes have always bothered me too, they aren't supposed to be there.
@@TheDoctorofOdoIsland yep. My whole life was a lie. Lol. Also, I meant the situation was ridiculous. Not you.
I'm pretty sure Tolkien removed references to tomatoes at some point, so he was at least aware of the problem.
It's a fictional mythology in an age were the continents had completely different shapes and all kinds of fantasy creatures lived. And you guys argue if it's realistic to have this or that plant? It's also not meant to be a mythology specifically for England. Arda is earth.
Gandalf: "gives patience to listen to error without anger"
Ok where do I get this???
Your local smoke shop. The stuff is literally 100% tobacco. Tobacco nicotine is a relaxant. There is nothing more special or "weedy" to it.
@@troffle I know, it's just, I feel like it's a requirement to be able to use Facebook without a post filter as it's been for the past few years
@@Eschatonin6666 AH. My apologies. Well, best of luck. That's why I got out of Facebook.
... heck, this very page is starting to convince me this site is just as bad.
@@troffle its actually a mild stimulant and the relaxation only comes after forming withdrawal symptoms. also Tobacco is from America, how is it supposed to get to middle earth?
@@shawnndixon5254
1) I know. Nicotine and harmala alkaloids compounded with monoamine oxidase inhibitors. But that it makes people feel better in the short term might be misinterpreted that way. Also nicotine is being researched for treating conditions like dementia and depression.
2) Yes we supposedly live in the Seventh Age or something similar. But seriously, Middle-earth is not our Earth. There is no such place in Middle-earth as "America" (I knew I liked Middle-earth for a reason).
More specifically, from the section "Concerning Pipe-weed" in "Fellowship Of The Ring":
"But all accounts agree that Tobold Hornblower of Longbottom in the Southfarthing first grew the true pipe-weed in his gardens in the days of Isengrim the Second, about the year 1070 of Shire-reckoning. The best home-grown still comes from that district, especially the varieties now known as Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby, and Southern Star.
‘How Old Toby came by the plant is not recorded, for to his dying day he would not tell. He knew much about herbs, but he was no traveller. It is said that in his youth he went often to Bree, though he certainly never went further from the Shire than that. It is thus quite possible that he learned of this plant in Bree, where now, at any rate, it grows well on the south slopes of the hill.
...
‘All the same, observations that I have made on my own many journeys south have convinced me that the weed itself is not native to our parts of the world, but came northward from the lower Anduin, whither it was, I suspect, originally brought over Sea by the Men of Westernesse. It grows abundantly in Gondor, and there is richer and larger than in the North, where it is never found wild, and flourishes only in warm sheltered places like Longbottom. The Men of Gondor call it sweet galenas, and esteem it only for the fragrance of its flowers. From that land it must have been carried up the Greenway during the long centuries between the coming of Elendil and our own days."
I mean, in The Silmarillion, you get:
"Nonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he will come unseen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world."
And I could do with a bit of Ulmo listening to the people of the world. This world is not Middle-earth. Middle-earth has no America. And tobacco came to Middle-earth from Over The Sea by the Men of Westernesse.
Why I'm glued to this channel: Robert takes something seemingly obscure-though it's often a question I've asked myself, many times-and not only finds the answer, but reveals something I hadn't considered. In this case, it's something about Saruman. He is "the man of skill," the white hand that can make anything, but he's remarkable short on ideas and has to borrow other people's-whether it's Sauron's ringmaking or Gandalf's love of pipeweed. Gandalf later remarks that Saruman missed his calling as a jester-he could have earned his keep imitating his lord's councillors. For a wizard of such power, he comes off as a might-have-been.
All of the very little uncertainty about what pipe-weed is comes from Saruman being weird about it.
And from Jackson's production staff. Also, worst, people themselves just wanting to believe it is.
What's even sadder is Tolkien WROTE about this.
In Letter 297, he wrote: "If published, I do object to them, when (as they usually do) they appear to be unauthentic embroideries on my work, throwing light only on the state of mind of their contrivers, not on me or on my actual intention and procedure."
@@troffle That could apply to many things in Tolkien and to many authors.
On this topic, it is extremely wishful thinking that there would be a universe in which MJ retained its entertainment value without being a disability in adventuring.
@@josephfisher426 thank you, yes. I have written elsewhere it's ridiculous to think people would smoke weed and then go into battle against orcs. I regret not replying with "you should try it". I'm at the point where I wish the Natural Selection method would take over.
@@troffle It will. Just takes a while, like it did with mass-distilled liquor.
Fun fact, there's a cherry and vanilla aromatic blend of Cavendish tobacco called hobitsweed and it is the most delicious pipe tobacco I've ever tasted. No longer manyfactured from the original maker, a company called 4noggins makes a supposed match of the flavor profile. Sooo good
It's easy to forget, in the shadow of our own culture's fascination with marijuana, how important tobacco was to the world economy 500 years ago. Tobacco was even thought to have medicinal properties, especially for those with respiratory illnesses. So, in an age when tuberculosis and pneumonia were widespread, it's easy to see why tobacco would be popular as a medicine. We can still see this today -- certain subsectors of our American society still view menthol-flavoured tobacco as "healthful" and "curative," especially for respiratory illnesses. The world trade in tobacco was almost as important as the world trade in sugar. Tobacco grows best in the warm, humid climates of the Deep South in the US, and in the Caribbean, as does sugar cane. And because it is so labor intensive, it could only be profitable if slave labor was employed for its production -- just like sugar. While public health entities have done a bang up job of educating the American public as to the harms of tobacco, the rest of the world has not been so easily convinced. In other cultures around the world, tobacco is seen as simply a harmless pleasure. In fact, in countries where alcohol is forbidden by religious taboo, smoking is quite common. In Europe, South America, Africa, and Asia, smoking tobacco is simply seen as a pleasant and harmless indulgence. It does not hold the Puritan stigma of "vice" as it does in the United States. So, given the time and place in which Tolkien was writing, I suspect he did intend "pipe weed" to be based on tobacco, rather than marijuana, which did not become popular in world culture until much later.
Another clue to the effect time has had on the LOTR: When Tolkien created the character of Gollum, he had Gollum eating raw fish as an indicator of how loathesome a character he was. When Peter Jackson's films were finally screened in California, the whole theater laughed -- sushi was by that time such an integral part of California culture that the reference was funny, not revolting. In the same way, the public/international perception of tobacco in the early 1930's in England is not the same as its perception today.
Interesting context thanks for sharing
Good point(s).
I saw the LOTR movies in theaters, in California. In fact, in Los Angeles, a very diverse place. Absolutely NOBODY laughed when Gollum bit a chunk out of the fish he just pulled from the water. If you did the same, and people laughed, it had more to do with smoking non-pipe weed before the movie than it did with "hey, he's eating sushi, and those people are freaked out! Lame!"
I'm now smoking tobacco and enjoying in this video. Never has it been this enjoyable to smoke!
The word 'tobacco' is directly used in The Hobbit, even though only indirectly referred to that in LotR in the Foreword.
Perhaps Tolkien changed the name for the sequel because some people took offense to people smoking tobacco in a children's book. I know presenting drinking alcohol in positive light was deemed inappropriate at the time, it's possible tobacco was viewed similarly though I'm not sure
I don't think he even thought of cannabis when writing it though. Cannabis was not commonly used in the UK when the book was written, nor did they call it "weed" ("locoweed" was a slang word for cannabis but not just "weed" afaik, that is newer)
@@DMBlade4 The term "tobacco" also appears in the Index, where it's cross-referenced to "pipe-weed"
You mean the foreWEED, of course
In the films its implied that its weed
@@Fujifoo77 And they are wrong.
glad to see this channel started asking the real questions
Its been almost 3 decades since i first heard of Tolkiens Hobbit and LotR, and through all these years of delving into his world, my favorite part of the culture/lore side of it was finding In Deep Geek. Thank you Robert, for your donations and stories which only makes me love Tolkien amd tge world he had created gor us.
I went to a Ren Faire yesterday and had Longbottom Leaf for the first time! I can officially cross it off my Hobbit Bucket List.
I'd like to think that "a traveler" from 2:40 was one of the rangers. No one from the north has business in the south and no one of the south has business in the far north. Except that one family of rangers. Just like Aragorn visited Minas Tirith "once before, a long time ago", his (great) grandfather also visited the city. And on his his journey he found and brought with him this herb.
That scene at Isengard with Pippin and Merry was actually one of several takes they did, each one being different, some playing it straight, some even more "smacked up" (to quote them) than the one they settled on. I think it was a good choice cinematically because it was a bit of light heartedness after period of seriousness in the movie, but not over done. They got the tone about right, even if it wasn't a strict adherence with the lore.
Pretty incredible how detailed and informative this is about something that is just a story 🙌🏻
Pipeweed was Tolkien's way of expressing his love for the ganja while still remaining ambiguous enough for plausible deniability.
Well, the word weed originally doesn't mean specifically cannabis, but just any wild plant in general. I would've thought it was obvious what pipweed is: a wild plant smoked in a pipe, no vague "it is what you want it to be" meaning necessary, the prologue just being there to clarify the importance of it in the story.
I believe it's a plant that has tobacco and cannabis effects in one plant,but only found in Tolkien reality
Did some quick reading, and it appears that weed didn’t even become a popular nickname for cannabis in Britain until the 1980s. Obviously long after the books were written.
@@greganderson6371 yeah, what's sad is this video is probably just overanalyzing to justify the use of weed in real life, which just ends up misinterpreting Tolkein's work
I always assumed it was just tobacco, but given a cutesie Middle-Earthy name.
I'll have a little pipeweed tonight
Indeed!
In 30 mins, I go on a quest to get some of the finest weed in the the south valley myself...Gandalf my old friend, this will be a night to remember 💨🌿
About to spark up my own rolled up pipeweed...
@tuulenkoti 😭 bruh are you lonely, let's smoke together bud!
@@redstonebrain40 you're gonna be lonely if you'll continue to smoke this shit
I love you all, this community, this channel, this wonderous tale. Have a good one everybody ♥️
You too!
@@BassLineProductionsI Thanks man :)
Masterfully made and beautifully done voice over work. Very excited to be subscribed and to learn more :)
Longbottom Leaf and In Deep Geek pair so well together!
I’m dying.
An immediate reaction to the headrush of a particularly potent tobacco can definitely make someone feel like 9:01 for a moment
birb
@@Margen67 Where?!??
it's actually really funny to me that people thought it might be anything other than just tobacco, always seemed pretty obvious to me the way it was written but still learned a lot else about it from this vid thanks!
Saruman tells Ghandalf "Your love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"! That tells me it's pot because tobacco doesn't do that lol!!
The book makes it pretty clear it's either tobacco or something very close to it, but the movies don't have that exposited anywhere and the Peter Jackson movies have what are very clearly meant to be weed jokes so it's easy to see where the confusion comes from.
@@WILLNOTCOMPLY72 Not true. "Smoking and Cognition", PubMed article DOI 10.2174 by Campos, Srebrisky and Castaldelli-Maia:
"Smoking reinforcement could be due to the initial cognitive improvement [...] However, heavy smoking is associated with cognitive impairment and cognitive decline in middle age."
still made no sense that they were relaxed from it, its literally a mild stimulant
@@shawnndixon5254 have you ever known a smoker? doesn't matter what it technically is, they experience it as something that relaxes them, so it makes sense that Tolkien, a smoker, would write a tobacco analog that way.
Any stuff that gets a wizard off is, in my mind, more that merely tobacco. In the same way lembas isn't merely bread, pipe weed is special and magical.
A thing to remember about tobacco historically, is that today tobacco is dominated by Virginia and Turkish style, which basically means the tobacco is toasted in the drying. This kills psychoactive effects and enhances stimulate effects. This is what commercial forces have found to sell best, but in WWI and before, especially outside the US, other types existed. With very psychoactive effects. Tobacco culture was very different and prevalent. For example, even into WWI many regular soldiers were instructed by their officers ti constantly pass around the officers pipe and smoke. This was because, filling in a pipe was considered a masculine achievement so people tried to speed run it. But especially pipe tobacco at that time was cured differently and was probably in come cases akin to psychoactive mushrooms. So, a bit harder to chain smoke. We forget that tobacco has a history of its own, and has been different things in different places.
In fact, take a shot whenever you see a picture of Tolkien himself, with a pipe.
Better yet, take a pint.
🥴 😵
Knowing who Tolkien was, the irony of hippies just assuming "it's weed, maaaan" is palpable.
"420 club" isn't know for clear thoughts and open mindedness. "First rule of 420 Club is you ALWAYS talk about it"
Wasn't this already uploaded once....?
And a lot of these comments were the exact same too… i thought i was going crazy
Yeah, this is very weird
In Deep Geeks mentioned in some other uploads that sometimes old videos get revised or updated in some way, and the changed one is a new upload. Might not be much different from the old one, but there was likely a change that happened, and this is the "new" replacement
@@gummybread I would assume the marijuana references might have hindered monetization and so were cut and the video was slightly reworked, or maybe that’s not the case at all and I’m delusional! Either way, I won’t ever turn my nose up at an IDG episode, even if I’ve already seen it
@cavejohnson5916 not that weird spaz. Relax
You're correct about everything that you've said, but you didn't need to mention the passage with the company at Isengard, or the letter even, because in the prologue (which you mentioned but iirc only in relation to the story about Old Toby) it even mentions not only that it is tobacco, but uses the scientific terminology (he says it's of the genus "nicotiana")
Tobacco. The good professor himself said he knew it was an anachronism but didn't particularly care. Same with potatoes.
I imagine Gandalf and Bilbo in the undying lands begging Yavanna for a fix😂
Imagine Yavanna singing pipeweed into creation during the Music of the Ainur.
Eru Iluvatar: 🎶All of Creation! And The Children: Elves and Men. 🎶
Melkor: 🎶D̴̗͑͝i̷̖͍͊͊s̸̜̔͠c̶͕̏ò̶ͅṟ̸͉̓̿d̷͓̝̍̈́ ̷͚̈́̽ 🎶
Yavanna: 🎶Weeeeeeeeeeeed! 🎶
Another gem, thanks!! :D
Started watching this at 4:20PM
Ehm... which time zone? 4:20 can be anything...
Remember that 4/20 is Adolf Hitler's Birthday!!!
It's actually tobacco so you can smoke it anytime just not in public
@@GrosvnerMcaffrey Which dystopian country prohibits you from enyoing a pipe in public?
@@GrosvnerMcaffrey I know, I just thought it was too much of a funny coincidence not to mention
I'm not a smoker, but I've worked physical labor jobs with people who WERE smokers, and tobacco seems likely for this "pipeweed." When I would drive the truck to a construction site with materials to deliver with a coworker of mine, he would occasionally ask me if it was okay with me if he smoked while we were driving. My response was always, "crack open your window a bit and it's fine with me!" He always seemed more relaxed after a cigarette.
Very nice, great video indeed sir. Do make another.
As someone who enjoys smoking a pipe of tobacco in the evening, i can let you know that it is indeed calming and relaxing.
I have no idea why people think it HAS to be marijuana because it "relaxes you."
Probably because it’s called Pipeweed. Tolkien kinda walked into that comparison like Sideshow Bob did with those rakes
I think smoking weed might be more mainstream than tobacco now, weirdly enough - or at least it's more socially acceptable - so a lot of people don't seem to understand the psychological benefits of nicotine.
@@LangstonDev also tobacco companies kinda burned (pun not intended) any public good will with all the crap they suppressed like cancer risks and even the effects it would have on pregnancies. Not helping matters were the attempts to appeal to kids with crap like Joe Camel.
well i cant say ive ever smoked a Tobbaco pipe that made me relax more than Cannabis pipes. i also cant say Tolkien ever interested me. what i know contradicts popular theory but if every fan insists a mild stimulant is what got Gandalf relaxing that much its not my place to argue.
Tobacco is known as a stimulate so it can not be that. During the days of Tolkein tobacco was widely smoked in pipes as a pipe softens the taste and heat from the hot bowl. My guess is it was an imaginary weed grown in the wilds of Buckland and utilized for its enjoyable smell, taste and calming effect giving the imbiber the ability to reflect and contemplate the days stresses and calming ones nerves. Not like the ganja of today when injested knocks one out unenjoyably, which is nothing like the grass from the sixties which most of was much less intoxicating and more just .ildly relaxing like a cold brew.
Marijuana is enjoying a cultural resurgence, and tobacco is frowned on with smoking bans. It makes sense that the movies bend the association in that direction
True, but pot was not as accepted nor tobacco as unaccepted in 2001 as they are today, so it was still an interesting decision by Jackson and co
Tobacco has a bad name because of cigarettes. The nicotine found in tobacco has recently been found to have beneficial effects when taken in moderation and without additives.
I myself partake of both but find that tobacco is for day time while cannabis works best in the late afternoon before sunset
Wanna get arkenstoned?
Good one
Depends what your tolkien
The beacons are lit bro!
@@toeknee5464 One Tolkien Over the Line Sweet Jesus
I am the heart of the mountain
I like your openness on interpretation
What kills me is that smoking and soldiering go hand in hand, the fact Tolkien, a former soldier would make smoking a big part of his works doesn't surprise me. The scene from the hobbit movie of gandalf cleaning his pipe after the battle makes me think of this old quote from Che guevara "a smoke in times of rest is a companion to the solitary soldier"
It's tobacco. Look at the time this was written in. And nowhere does it say that it makes anybody act high. And the idea that it was sweet smelling would lead it to believe it's tobacco which does smell sweet out in the field. I've never heard anyone say marijuana smells sweet in the field. Next people will be saying that the droughts that Treebeard gave Merry and Pippin was really LSD.
Plus, Tolkien was Catholic, and born when he was. Yep, definitely tobacco.
Even in the US, until 1934, cannabis was only used in oil form for headaches and such. It was medicine, and no one would have smoked the leaves (which, I agree, do NOT smell lovely and sweet lol). I’m not sure about the UK’s laws, but that was the sitch in the US.
@@mrs.c1755 Nobody smokes marijuana leaves to this day, so there's your clue that it is, in fact, tobacco: it's the leaves they smoke, not the flower. However, my grandfather, a humble farmer, grew hemp. Mainly for the fiber, it's a very versatile plant. He said they would occasionally smoke "some of it" because it made the hard labor days in the field go by easier. It was called "Knaster".
thanks for the world building tolkien, but we will take the lore from here. 🌲🌲🌲
I mean, "Sweet Galenas" is pretty thoroughly established as a *species* of tobacco but not strictly the same as we have in this more prosaic state of imagination. Less addictive, less harmful to your health, more calming... there's nothing to say that it DOESN'T have a mild euphoric effect as well. I find it entirely plausible that Pipeweed is the conceptual midpoint between "real" tobacco and "real" weed.
... tobacco nicotine DOES have a euphoric effect with absolutely no cannabinoids.
Tobacco - mainly nicotine - has psychological impacts. For many, including myself, it's calming and focusing. There's a reason why so many are addicted to it, including Tolkien himself. It's funny all the people arguing it's THC because it has a psychological effect. You must've never smoked tobacco...
@@LangstonDev oh thank you, thank you so dearly for the fact-based input.
Tolkien was avid pipe smoker, so it's pretty obvious that pipeweed was inspired by tobacco.
Not much to talk about, really.
The movies kinda did a lot of harm to the subject of pipe weed. Turning into pot instead of just straight up tobacco. So now people who only know LotR from the movies all just assuming everyone was high.
The creator of the world of Lord of the rings was rolling up some fire BIG E
My headcanon was always that pipeweed was just tobacco that hadnt been subjected to serious domestication, most of our crops come from plants that are much smaller in the wild and it doesnt make sense for the large leaves of tobacco plants to be called 'weeds', so in tolkiens universe pieweed is tobacco that comes from a much smaller plant that could be more aptly described as a 'weed'.
And perhaps longbottom leaf is a form of tobacco that hales from a plant much more similar to what we'd call a tobacco plant that just hasnt caught on yet.
I don't guess hobbits would need as big of leaves either!
Patience, and the capacity to consider disagreement without anger. That alone is proof of what Pipeweed truly is.
I mean, it's tobacco, sure. But it's had a very different history of cultivation from it's wild type - the sweet galenas - to it's current form than real world commercially grown varieties of tobacco.
It is therefore possible that pipe-weed may have a lower nicotine content; or Dwarves, Wizards and Hobbits may be different enough from Men that they experience more of the anxiolytic effects of nicotine.
... I just want to congratulate and thank you on the single most educated and intelligent response I've seen on this entire page that had decimated my faith in human nature because the page went from "weed lol" to "Tolkien's writing means nothing, I'm taking away that it's weed and that's valid just like I'm valid". Thank you.
Having just rewatched the trilogy, I find it hard to believe anyone can, in good faith, interpret pipeweed as marijuana.
Not a single character ever seems "high" after smoking it. There are never any changes in speech or mannerisms. It just looks like a moment of relaxation, an even milder effect than the modern cigarette. Mary & Pippin are in good spirits when they find it because... they're just really happy. They just found barrels of pipeweed & good food, AND they just won a battle after having been POWs to orcs for some time.
I was looking for examples that would make pipeweed weed, but in the original trilogy there aren't any.
Well, they ARE drunk, so there’s also that
Can I throw in one more reason, even based on the movies and not the books, for believing it's just tobacco?
Can you imagine people whose LIVES depended on their fighting skills and staying clear-headed getting stoned? Can you imagine Boromir and Aragorn getting high?
Reading the comments from people here arguing so hard for it being marijuana has helped me lose a lot of faith in humanity.
@@troffleDUUUUUDE WEED LMAOOOO
@@troffleI can imagine soldiers using marijuana considering how many soldiers were using marijuana during the Vietnam War.
@@cruz92895 You can imagine that, but it doesn't work. It's not just a VERY DIFFERENT kind of conflict, it's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD.
That's the problem with all the Hollywood writers now - they're falsely imagining these fictional worlds as being their own stupid little backyard of American urbanity.
The Vietnam was is the one that created the name "post-traumatic stress disorder". Vietnam had civilian guerrila action, heavily corrupt governments and American civilians protesting the atrocities.
In Tolkien's world, a company of soldiers breaking their oath is such a transgression against the laws of nature and supernature, they become A COMPANY OF VENGEFUL GHOSTS held until released by the Rightful King. That's how important honour and honesty were.
You didn't have IEDs or villagers friendly half a day earlier committing murder in the night.
People were getting stoned out of their skulls at Woodstock while Vietnam was happening. What local lord in the outskirts of Rohan or Minas Tirith is going to have SUBSISTENCE-LEVEL FARMERS getting stoned instead of working on crops?
The SHIRE was genteel and urbane and you saw how well Frodo and Sam got through their trials and COULD NOT HAVE DONE SO if they were stoned, they had Galadriel's blessing. Merry and Pippin didn't go through the same degree of horror, yet they too were changed. But they had Ent-draughts to make them STRONGER, not to get them stoned.
I get you can imagine that, but look at the situations and reconsider. Anybody convinced it was weed, like the evident decerebrate above, is too small-minded and intellectually incapable to understand a different kind of world.
Tobacco is the logical choice and makes sense. But considering Middle Earth, it's probably something similar to, but not exactly like, either tobacco or hemp. We can have our edibles and smoke them, too! ;-)
This video is just fantastic I think you nailed it in recognizing hobbits enjoying the wholesome little pleasures in life and seeking no trouble.
Since Professor Tolkien has been an avid pipe smoker it's nothing but plain old tobacco, period.
Being an connoisseur of tobacco, especially cigarillos, myself, I understand very well why he saw it worth to be added to his work.
Yes and they call it weed ? ..... yeah ok
@@eldersun9877 I guess knotweed, ragweed, bindweed, pokeweed and burweed are all "weed" too by that logic. :P
I wonder what the lung cancer rates were in The Shire.
I'm sure the cancer rates were low, since they didn't spray 20 chemicals on the plant before smoking.
@@yogidemis8513 nicotine by it self can cause cancer.
To be fair, as a smoker of both cannabis and pipe-tobacco, I can honestly say the unlike cigarettes, there is a significantly more noticeable relaxation effect from a pipe. I'm no chemist, or pharmacologist, but it seems simply to me that the person ingesting gets a much larger dose of nicotine in a much shorter time when smoking a pipe, and thus feels greater effect. And, to a non-smoker or someone who hasn't had any in quite some time, a packed pipe of strong tobacco may honestly disorient a person as much as something like cannabis.
The cultivation of tobacco, processing of it, and conversion into cigarettes was very much intended (from a capitalistic point of view) to make it palatable and regular to the everyday person. If one were to cultivate a particularly strong strain, like Old Toby, it is totally reasonable to expect strong and lasting effects. I would also note that while there is a habit-forming sense of addiction involved in the cannabis culture and the plant itself, nicotine is a remarkably addictive thing in the realm of drugs.
I think you are right in saying that it doesn't really matter. Tolkien meant what he meant, but we as readers are allowed to take what we'd like from these stories. I, myself, always saw it as tobacco. It is an historic trope to have wise-men and sages smoking a pipe. It fit perfect for Gandalf... and gives a nod to the simple wisdom of the Shire-folk in that they tend to just mind their own business and live life to its fullest.
Hobbit-life really sounds pretty appealing.
Is it possible it might have something to do with the "ritual" around the pipe rather than with anything in it? I'm from a mate-drinking country and even though it's technically a stimulant, it usually carries a calming, bonding experience around it that sort of feels and looks like preparing a pipe.
regardless of tolkiens cannon, i always refer to my weed as old toby. and, even now, id give anything for a whiff of old toby...
What an awesomely expanded explanation 🧙🏻♂️