Grond Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
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Sauron definitely was like "they won't get this reference, but I will get this reference. And after all, it's not about them, it's really all about me".
im sure any eleves around knew, and other loremasters about.
My 13 year-old-me knew and that's what mattered
Thats why Tolkien named the books after him
Why am I actually interested in a 9 minute video about a battering ram?
I could’ve sworn he uploaded this years ago.
Everyone loves a story about a good pounding
@@craygroupI thought so too! Perhaps so many years have passed that he's begun making videos about his older videos: the In Deep Geek Legendarium.
@@mwcz5190 I believe I saw another comment in which he explained a lot of older videos have been taken down and are being redone
Admittedly, I would probably be interested in a 9 minute video about _any_ battering ram, but this one is the grondest.
I love how he named it after his master's powerful weapon but it took the shape of a wolf. Sauron used to be able to shape himself into a werewolf. It's as if he's bringing back the memory of those dark powerful days even tho no one alive, man or orc, can remember it. Almost as if he's seeking revenge for losing to Huan all those years ago
Insightful!
If I remember correctly, there are orcs alive in RotK that seem to remember the end of the Second Age, if not first hand, then as something a father or grandfather saw and told tales about. If so, if orcs are, like the elves they once were, immune to aging, then there would be some orcs in RotK who have strong folk-memories of Grond...
@benjaminodonnell258 I didn't think orcs could live that long but the idea of a grandpa orc is acceptable at this point🤣
Grandpa Orcs are cannon: "Do not despise the wisdom of TH-cam commentators (...)"@@orrointhewise87
@@orrointhewise87 ‘Grandporc? Orkork to his youngest spawn.’ It’s always Orcs-Ride-Free Day at the MordorLand Amusement-Park.
You've got to admire the balls on Fingolfin, taking on the closest thing Middle Earth has to a devil and putting up a decent show of it.
He caused Morgoth to limp ever after and pain from a wound that wound never heal
Yes he crippled the greatest & most powerful of all the Valar.
if i would be a magical creature that cannot truly die, i would fight with everyone too. Elves and all other magical immortal things are never truly brave. Real balls it takes only if youre mortal and risking ur whole existence forever
@@rudivomschauerberg6344 Yes, but but risking "death" they also risk losing the only home they have known and loved, and all their family and friends, some of them forever (if they are not killed).
@@rudivomschauerberg6344 I don't think Fingolfin was immortal like that, I think he chose to be exiled.
I think what Sauron was attempting to convey with the name Grond was that he still wielded power like that of the first age, while his enemies had only diminished.
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND
One gets the sense that Sauron might have been a bit of a diva. Definitely a theatre kid in another life.
U gamer
Even though it appears Fingolfin was winning, my view is that he never had a chance of actually defeating Morgoth. His victory was in being able to hold out for so long and actually injure Morgoth.
His story would inspire a favourite non-tolkien character of mine, Broxigar.
You are soldiers of Gondor! No matter what comes through that gate you will stand your ground!
🫨😰
Gandalf after GROND !
You will stand your *grond
@@timhaldane7588coincidentally, grond means ‘ground’ in Dutch 😉
The soldiers of Gondor...did not, in fact, stand their ground. xD
Considering that Melkor was more of an "idea guy" and Sauron was Aule the Smith's greatest servant, there's a good chance that Sauron actually was the one who MADE the original Grond for Morgoth.
In other words, Sauron was the Project Manager and Engineer while Morgoth was the Architect? 😂
The scene where the Witch King activates Grond while standing in the stirrups fist raised was hair raising in the book. I never understood why Jackson didn't incorporate this scene, it was practically written for cinema.
Probably because he felt he couldn’t do it justice
@@Aaron-zk6jn I think he managed it with things more difficult.
Maybe someone could ask him one day.
Agreed!
Ultimately didn't fit grond was seen already active on approach though to make up for it I mean there was a deleted scene standoff between the witch king and gandalf.
We'll probably never know, but it's fun to speculate. My guess would be that it's to do with visual story telling. Throughout the battle the witch-king is constantly sitting down looking relaxed, moving very little. That way when he finally does move it makes an impact, and the camera really focusses on him as he rises up from the dead fell beast and raises his mace. By having him be so relaxed throughout the scenes building up to it, the simple act of having this character stand up to confront Eowyn communicates to the audience that some serious shit is about to go down. He hasn't stood up all battle, so when he does finally stand our gut reaction is 'uh-oh'.
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND!!!
Grond
G R O N D
"Grond-uh! Grond-uh!"
GROND
@@palmoftheface4969 You guys are saying it wrong!
Essentially, Grond's were a several thousand years long case study in dark magic smithing technology.
Nice.
I had a small cameo in RotK, thanks to Grond, as one of the voices chanting as it was dragged to the wall. They modulated the audio recordings to make it sound like there were many more people shouting. Was a fun afternoon. My mum got to be a rider of Rohan in the final two films as they initially hd a shortage of people well over 6ft tall with naturally long hair - most of the extras wound up being women because it was easier than having to fit a bunch of guys with wigs and hair extensions!
10 minute video on a fictional battering ram 😂 i love you bro. Who asked fot this? Not me. Who needed it? Not me. But who's watching it? Me!
Same here 🥰
Best Tolkien TH-camr!
Idk i think he and Nerd Of The Rings should have a fist fight in a McDonalds parking lot to decide who is #1 😂
@@GrancigulNOTR is a bit too limp wristed in my opinion. Men of The West and Tolkien Untangled are better
😂😂@@Grancigul
It may be worth noting that Grond isn't the first time we see a door breaking, due to magic.
Back in Khazad-dum, Gandalf cast a shutting-spell on the door out of Balin's tomb with his magic, to keep the orcs from following the fellowship.
The Balrog's counter-spell caused the door to "[...]burst in pieces."
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
no.
GROND
The Comments are as predictable as orcs in front of Minas Tirith screaming GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND!
GROND!
My thumbnail is my 1972 BMW 2002 club racecar. It is named Grond. Back in the Second Age I was a track marshal who saw the same BMW as a club racecar. I just needed to add a roll cage and other safety items. I raced against the original car and found out its name was Shadowfax. It only beat me once. GROND, GROND, GROND!!!!!!!!
I assume most of them are Redditors from r/LOTRmemes.
Like Sauron naming his great battering ram in honor of his master's mighty hammer of old, they are here to leave comments in honor of inside jokes from 2022. 🥲
One thing that is kinda obscure until you really pay attention is that Grond is shaped as a wolf head with a fire in his mouth. IE Carcharoth with Silmaril he ate
"Morgoth's Grond was ineffective, yet Morgoth won, while Sauron's Grond was effective, and Sauron lost". Pretty much sums up the power differences between Morgoth and his servant. It is said (in the Silmarillion and the Lord Of The Rings) that "Morgoth's power is always greater and other than he shows" while Saurons power is "never as great as fear makes it" (paraphrasing). Sauron was basically self-destructed by his own errors and was at last overcome by 3 mortal hobbit-like creatures. It took the combined might of the ARMIES of Elves, Men AND the all of the other Valar to overthrow Morgoth.
I think it’s Sauron almost spitting on Melkor’s grave. “He failed, but I won’t. I’m the real dark lord.”
Ironic, given that Sauron too was too slow to break through and crush Gondor before the reinforcements came.
@@michaelf8221It didn't really matter, sauron had more armies in reserve. Gondors and Rohan armies were in tatters.
What probably hurt more is losing that northern army.
I love the mental image of all of Morgoth’s minions flailing and screaming in despair at his wounds, except for Sauron, who's just coldly staring in contempt as his master is being sliced up by an elf
i think it was pride "i'm stronger than you were" thinking as spite was his most used feature
Gonna be awkward when they meet again outside of the world
This is the first channel I've watched where, with the plug for patreon at the end, before he even mentions how you can support him he thanks you for doing so at all. I really enjoy that, and it's ultimately what earned my sub.
One day I'll get your next coffee, but for now you get my views and some time. Cheers!
I believe we talked about this last stream. One of the most striking visualisations of magic I've read/heard someone skilfully read to me😊
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
G R O N D
What a well-written and thoughtful entry.
You have no idea how long I’ve been searching for a video like this
Fantastic! I love the deep reading of all of Tolkien's works and how beautifully lacey they are as one layer let's enough light through to see/discover another
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
Grond!
I don't remember if mentioned but the wolf head for Grond could be representative of Sauron being Lord of Werewolves!
every time another bit of sauron’s folly is revealed to me, i smile smugly and ponder on how he felt as frodo claimed the ring at sammath naur and barad-dûr fell. there is something so satisfying about seeing the machinations of the good-hearted laid bare
Grond!
GROND
GROND!
GROND!!
GROND!!!
GROND!!!
Bring up the wolfs head!
GROND!
GROND !
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
Your Middle Earth videos always kick ass
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROUND!
Gotta come back here every year to remind myself that I love Grond.
Until I read more into the silmrillion, I used to think of Grond as the literal hammer of Morgoth suspended into some siege equipment.
Grond Grond Grond
GROND
GROND
GROND
"In his last throes Fingolfin pinned the foot of his Enemy to the earth with Ringil, and the black blood gushed forth and filled the pits of Grond."
That Fingolfin fight sounds just like a Dark Souls boss battle. He uses dodge roll I-frames to avoid the big slow attack, and then got in some chip damage during the openings. He eventually died to the boss, as is tradition in Souls games.
I literally was looking through your videos a few days ago to see if you had done one on this. Awesome timing!
Your analysis adds so much depth to these ancient stories. Thanks for sharing your insights!
Lol "it's not like the gate could dodge out of the way of the battering ram" idk why but I feel no greater words of wisdom have ever been uttered
Do we know what the beasts pulling Grond were? They look pretty unique
They're simply known as Great Beasts of Gorgoroth
@@maxgrozema1093That's a sick name for a band
I believe they are called the Kine of Araw somewhere, it was either the trading card game or a video game. Also, Boromirs horn is made from one of these beasts
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy no, that's a species of ox, different kind of horn. Especially because a nose horn isn't hollow, so it's difficult to make a blowing horn from it, but a head horn is hollow.
I never really seen it as beeing magical, the spell of the Witchking plus the brute force of Grond is what broke the gate.
Excellent synopsis! Thanks IDG!
Morgoth’s grond was ineffective but he won.
Sauron’s grond was effective but he lost.
It's wonderful that symbolism and poetry are present in the series when seeing the books in a timeline of that universe. It is truly poetic. Whether this irony is intentional or not, for me it is one of the fantastic things that only exists in this book and so it is fair to say that this is the type of thing that makes it special, timeless. Magical!
Great episode! As a long time player of Lord of the Rings Online, I was smitten the first time I laid eyes on Grond sitting quietly in Osgiliath, awaiting the battle to come. I tried to destroy it and change the narrative but, alas, the great war machine just stared ahead, laughing at my failure :)
Can you do one on whether Frodo’s lifespan was shortened in the Undying Lands and whether or not that meant he was dead when Sam arrived?
Frodo's lifespan wouldn't be shortened in the undying lands, it would only _feel_ like his life had been shorted because he would be the only person or thing that aged.
@@SonofSethoitae I’d heard in some manuscripts about how Valinor causes mortals’ live’s to “burn” out faster, sort of the opposite of how rings of power stretch out their life without it having any more substance until there’s practically no “life” left in them
@@folleyboy16 That's a slight misconception. In "Morgoth's Ring" there's an essay called "Aman and Mortal Men" where Tolkien says this:
"But in Aman such a creature would be a fleeting thing, he most swift-passing of all beasts. For his whole life would last little more than one half-year, and while all other living creatures would seem to him hardly to change, but to remain steadfast in life and joy with hope of endless years undimmed, he would rise and pass - even as upon Earth the grass may rise in spring and wither ere winter."
He's not saying they would _literally_ only have six months to live. He's saying that it would _feel_ like only six months, because in a normal human lifespan almost nothing would have changed around them.
Elsewhere in the same essay he says this: "even though in Aman, a mortal child would still grow to maturity in some twenty years of the Sun, and the natural span of its life, the period of the cohesion of hröa and fëa, would be no more than, say, 100 years. Not much more, even though his body would suffer no sickness or disorder in Aman, where no such evils existed."
The difference is that, unless they were properly cared for, the death the suffered would be more unpleasant after a regular length of time: "Either his fëa would be wholly dominated by the hröa, and he would become more like a beast, though one tormented within. Or else, if his fëa were strong, it would leave the hröa. Then one of two things would happen: either this would be accomplished only in hate, by violence, and the hröa, in full life, would be rent and die in sudden agony; or else the fëa would in loathing and without pity desert the hröa, and it would live on, a witless body, not even a beast but a monster, a very work of Melkor in the midst of Aman, which the Valar themselves would fain destroy."
I wondered if the hammer had been melted down and incorporated into the battering ram though it seems Tolkien would likely have mentioned that.
I’ve wondered that off and on for the last 5 decades.
I think not. It wasn't the sort of the Host of the Valar would leave lying around after the War of Wrath.
Unless it was hidden away like the balrog under moria?
Given Tolkien's writing in the Silmarillion I've always attached the word "smote" to Grond...I recall watching FotR - when Gandalf cast down the Balrog of Moria and "...smote his ruin upon the mountainside" I immediately thought of Grond and what I knew would feature in the RotK. I wasn't disappointed. Grond was the scariest war machine of the entire LotR
GROND!!
Time Stands Still At The Iron Hill is a great song about the battle between Morgoth and Fingolfin
6:40 when you're in light armour as a dex build and spam dodge-roll but run out of stamina and get pancaked by Havel Knight
I would put forth that Sauron's Grond was just as slow and ineffective as Morgoth's Grond. It struck hard and would have ended the battle, had it not spent such a great deal of time crawling foreward that it's last blow heralded Rohan's arrival.
My 9 month old daughter loves listening to you before nap time, you have such a calming and re assuring voice. Love the cannel i’m running out of videos of yours to watch though 😂
Thanks Robert!
I've been listening to the Minas Tirith stream today. You mentioned this video, and here it is!
So this is not about this video, I am simply hoping that the creators will see this, and maybe consider creating a video about how Sam Gamgee was the true hero in the lotr.. he was the strength that never faltered, up until the very end. He was the true unsung hero. In so many ways and for so many reasons. I don’t know why that isn’t a subject talked about, or something that creators never really get into much. Just a thought. Cheers!❤ great job on all of these amazing videos❤
Maybe Sauron actually crafted Grond for Morgoth - he was a servant of Aulë before he fell. Then this was a "See - the magic DOES work, the previous failure was all my old boss"
I've been waiting for this and I didn't even know! Thank you! I already know that Grond is basically an homage to Carcaroth of Morgoth.
I know Tolkien wasn't a fan
of allegory, but his description of Grond is eerily similar to the description of experiences of the first tanks of ww1
You probably already know this: Tolkien fought in WW1. While recovering from 'trench foot' in a hospital he wrote quite a bit of what would eventually become the hobbit and silmarillion.
I think it's also worth noting, the Orks had almost certainly forgotten about the ineffectiveness of Grond, they don't see it as the limp weapon of a lame general, but a mighty weapon that one strong enough might be able to make use of😊
As usual you've unpacked Grond expertly. Another excellent video.
Of all you posit I concur most with the idea that Sauron, being of Aüle's people and one of the most accomplished makers of powerful things, was probably at least a part of the creation of the original Grond back in his days directly serving Morgoth. And the Gate of Gondor is a static target. So he popped open his old notebooks, er, scrolls and whipped up the new Grond from the technical blueprints of the old. The operating system was of course modified after Three Ages of academic advancement by Sauron. A major upgrade is having his most invested Nazgűl trained to build and operate new Grond. Sauron's effective surrogate/operator, The Witch King channels Sauron's power onto new Grond and Boom.
So this gets us to naming it Grond. Who at the Pellinor would know the significance of this? Only Sauron. An homage to past dark victories, a paean to Morgoth? Or is this what the project was listed under in his notes, er, ageless memory?
So anyway, good job and thanks always for all the brilliant work.
Just as Morgoth's dragons that captured Gondolin were simply tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, this battle ram was a non-self-propelled armored cannon.
The best part about Grond in the movies is that they have clearly brought it, but they are like nah let's try the shitty ram first, then go sit and think before they go "what about that enormous ram we brought specifically to break this gate?"
The trolls manning Grond were paid by the hour, so they didn't want to pay that expense unless they really had to.
This was really done well. Geek approved.
As soon as I read the name, I couldn’t help but start chanting Grond, Grond, Grond!!!
*GROND!!!!*
Man, now I've seeing that gate swerving like a magic carpet every time Grond tried to git it 🤣🤣
Great post
For me Grond is one of the cooler creations of Mordor, really shows off Tolkien’s prowess, it’s not every writer that can make something as simple as a battering ram feel like a character unto itself. They nailed it in the movie.
I like the design of the animated version, it was much scarier to me. It showed how brave Gandalf was to stand straight and not flinch when it did finally break. Great scene! What happened to Grond after the war? Keep up the great work, love to see a video on Celebrian or Goldberry.
Whats interesting is while morgoth used grond ineffectively he 'won' his fight. While sauron used grond effectively and yet lost.
Love it
8:49
"S'more-goth", yum! I want to have my graham crackers, marshmallows, and chocolate ready the next time there's a Battle of Sudden Flame.
Robert, in the past you've asked for video requests. Just wanted to toss a recommendation to you: Anything regarding the Elvish language. I love Elvish, it sounds amazing, and also just think it would sound amazing to read some Elvish in a video.
Theory
A: Grond is literally morgoths hammer because thats how big he was.
Theory B: The walls and gates of minas tirith are enchanted by Numenoreans.
The witch king is numenorean. He knows how to undo it.
Me: trying to fall asleep
My brain: GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND GROND
Now you gotta edit a 1-hour-long cut of GROND crawling on
Can you do a video on Sauron fighting style? In the movie he appears as atowering armored humanoid with a giant mace but in the books is different and in the past he fought in different forms than humanoid. I'm addicted to this channel by the way
Kind’a wish you shared your thoughts on the Great Beasts and more about the Witch-King’s part, other than that I think another token worth mentioning is the ulterior aesthetic of the Wolf-Head up front; plausibly a token in itself to Melkor and his affiliation with wolves; particularly during the first age with Sauron himself proclaimed as “the lord of werewolves”, and the beast Carcharoth being the largest wolf of them all.
What do we know about that fifth leaf of grass that brushed across Frodo's foot as they were leaving Tom Bombadil's house? LOL
"You're saying it wrong!"
Gosh!
It would have been worth an explanation as to how Grond could have been brought from Mordor across the Anudin river to Minas Tirith.
We need a video on the place where Gandalf and the Balrog fought under Moria…
I had just assumed that Grond 2.0 was the original Grond re-made. Sort of a dark parallel to Narsil.
I've often wondered if there was only one Grond, whether Morgoth's hammer formed the core of the great ram.
Why didn’t Grond take the ring to Mordor?
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
Hello! Great channel and videos! I have a suggestion for a video: Why they didn't just use the eagles to fly the Ring to Mount Doom?
All I’m interested in is how tf did they get it across the Anduin, and the beasts to pull it, in such a short time with seemingly no boat or bridge strong enough to bear them.
I have always thought that the design of Minas Tirith could have been so much improved with a rather simple feature: A large moat and drawbridge.
Rather silly to give the enemy unrestricted access to the main doors. Which, ironically, were themselves also not barricaded in any way from the inside. Imagine huge thick poles leaned against the door, stopping it from being opened. But no.
There's something to be said about a weapon or attack that if you're hit by it, you lose. That is of course, if you can hit.
I have doubts that Orcs or Sauron would use a Sindarin name for the weapon of Morgoth. Early in the Legendarium, Tolkien postulated that Morgoth had his own version of the Valarin language, which was harsher than Quenya, kind of a proto-Black Speech, and I felt it likely that "Grond" was the one remaining word saved from that primordial tongue.
I only know the name of Grond because a couple years ago a Facebook group based off of lord of the rings orcs invaded every group they could and cried about Grond and to tear down the walls of men. My phone remembers and autocorrects it and capitalizes Grond for me
Maybe it is the same hammer.
We don't know how big Morgoth was.