@@johnhunt2390Same could be said for the government. They want you to believe in the structure and what you’re told without questioning it. It’s why so many people blindly follow political parties, on both sides.
Also parents lie and don't want to be caught. But it is assumed the kids will learn how to tell the difference between lies and truth later, since as a small child they believe obvious lies like Santa.
I had a short relationship with a girl who turned out to be a pathological liar. She was absolutely bizarre in her complete inability to tell the truth about almost anything and how casually she would lie about the most inane stuff. It took me a long time to trust people after I realised what she was, because I had never experienced anyone like that in my life. In situations where telling the truth wouldn't actually pose any problems for her she lied just because she...could?
Oh yeah. I new a young man who told his girlfriend he has a Stalker, which was his side girl and to her he said nearly the same story. He tried this even when they caught him and met with him, both in one room! Like.. bro wtf. YOU are the problem 😅 This cuts deep into peoples souls. Just be nice and trust your gut boys and girls! ❤
i was one of those people when i was younger. for me it all came down to "if I tell them honestly, I’m going to get in trouble”. didnt matter what the topic was, I would even lie about what I had for dinner last night. it sounds paradoxical, but it’s actually her that isnt trusting of you, but quite frankly it has nothing to do with you, it’s all a trauma response. so the lack of trust is for her to untangle.
@@davidschhh I am replying to just because you seem vulnerable to give maliciously intended habitual liars the benefit of doubt: sometimes you just don't see their goal - it can be as stupid as testing out what people would ask, how to shut them down, what they respond to (feeling you up) or a long con. People do all sorts of stuff for all sorts of reasons - we can't read minds, let alone other people's subconscious. Really stupid example that I saw multiple times was : "I have money, I'm successful, I'm self-made, I'm generous - you pay for my stuff, and if you expect me to return the favour you're using me for money" (it was literally just forcing a narrative to make you feel bad for not giving them money **AS IF** they gave you 10x the amount 5min ago). Not every liar lies because they're hurting, just because you did - some are lying to hurt you. And I'm glad you found better ways and improved - it's not a small achievement 👍
Taken too far this becomes dissociating from humanity, which can lead to very enlightening perspectives, but also breaks your connection to human values.
I think something more effective than "detaching emotionally", is to actually LEARN to lie and manipulate effectively. When you learn this skill, you can detect when others are trying to play those same cards. Donald Trump is actually a great case study for this. I've never seen someone capable of inciting fear, disdain, anger at a national scale where people can feel those emotions at the same time and build a community of support around each other and around him as the answer. I would start by studying him, how he talks, what he talks about, and how he makes people feel.
@@papakael8247 People can justify truth to be whatever they feel is correct. The manipulator's job is to provide the reasons for those feelings and make it as easy for them as possible to reshape and believe in their individual "truth". Make them fundamentally distrustful of outside sources, impair their ability to critically or openly think, and make it painful for them to doubt you through the loss of community/connection/validation.
This is literally my mom. Gave up on trying to change her tho. Set boundaries and move on with your life. Society can keep calling me a bad person I value my mental health.
yeah, society does tend to take the parents' side, MY parents' parents, i.e. my grandparents are VERY toxic, and theyre beyond change, but we still keep them cuz theyre very old and need the support, gave them their own other house... im lucky my parents are VERY understanding and good, but yeah, for you, you should do what youre supposed to do and think about things only from your perspective, the society doesnt know how toxic your mom is, you do and you have to deal with it, so dont think about what ppl percieve at all, its stupid. if youve been watching dr k, its the conept of dharma, what you should do is what matters to you, not to others
That whole thing about letting the liar get what they want a little bit but still holding up the boundry was something that actually happened with me unintentionally at one point. I remember being suspicious of my partner (who i later found out did cheat on me) and i tried to explain to her that my lack of trust was probably from being cheated on in all my previous relationships. In the conversation, she couldn’t get her head around the idea that I had trust issues, it wasnt necessarily her fault, but I also wasn't going to take the blame or just stop being suspicious. By the end of it she was screaming, crying at me. She always knew that having a melt down made me want to console her because I hated seeing her upset. Once I realised that was her nuclear solution, she couldn't manipulate me anymore. Manipulators almost always use your empathy against you to get what they want. Once you empathise but dont give them what they want, their mask starts to crack.
My ex would full-on start WAILING and throwing himself at walls and shit having a whole episode when I wouldn't coddle him. It was fucking bizarre, and because I stonewalled he'd just get more and more outrageous in his behavior, making a total fool out of himself while trying to make me feel guilty enough to console him.
This makes so much sense, I get into a lot of debates online and I’m astonished how many people just say things to aggravate. Like no honest rebuttals, evidence, question dodging, but the constant is they try to control your emotions. Having truth makes no difference because that’s not what they’re after. It also makes me think of struggle sessions, or “uncomfortable conversations” which are also designed to get you to accept radical ideology through purely emotional means. Saying whatever will get you to “confess your sin” and adopt their ideas.
just curious, and i don't know what kind of debates you get into, but how many debates do you get your opinion changed, and how many do you see the other person's opinion change? Also, sucks to see you have such a bad experience, hope you find some kinder people
Don't debate online. Anonymity makes people braver than they are (hurling insults/ad hominems). Debating in person mostly prevent those fake bravery, of course that not to say that arguing face to face isn't as stressful.
I think for me the worst part about it is when they create a point that you didn't make and then try to debate you on it. Like they're asking you a yes or no question for something that doesn't have a yes or no answer.
as a (possible) schizoid intp, yea, seeing people try to converse and debate using only their emotions, and trying their hardest to get you to do the same really disappoints me lol i also currently have a limerent erotomaniac, possible narcissist (enfj) clinging to the friendzone who only speaks with his emotions and lies that he continuously contradicts. (tried convincing me and everyone else that we were a physically intimate power couple many times, among other things) so that automatically makes me biased.
Great video, but I think the term "liars" is inaccurate here: People who emotionally manipulate in this way are not always lying - people do this *when they are afraid you won't believe them*, for whatever reason. I grew up with undiagnosed autism and ADHD, and was also academically "gifted". When I tried to tell the adults in my life about my difficulties, they didn't believe me. I was constantly punished for falling short of expectations due to circumstances I had no control over (e.g. doing homework because I couldn't focus despite trying for hours). My solution? Manipulating and guilt-tripping my parents and teachers to convince them not to punish me. I was telling the truth all along, but I still had to be manipulative in order to be believed. Whenever I suspect that someone is manipulating me, I always stop to consider the possibility that they're going through the same kind of thing I did. It's not applicable to every situation, but I feel it's important nonetheless.
Don't understand why you felt the need for manipulative behavior as a young child instead of believing you parents and teachers but instead internalize bad belive in your self worth.
@@MariannaOlsen A question about what a young child felt, in a child vs full grown adult dynamics ? What is a young child supposed to know and learnt from whom, the same adult parent?
I understand you, cause I have ADHD as well, but I would NEVER tell you to lie as a way to escape people not believing you, because you know what? THEN YOU HAVE BECOME A REAL LIAR!!! And if people get those lies of yours, it will be even harder for them to trust you. Lying is never a solution. It only traps you more and more and you can lose important people in your life. When you lie, it's a poison to the people that you're lying to and to yourself.
I’m neurodivergent but my backstory has put me in a position to feel I’m wrong about everything I “know” in my life. Thanks to my diagnosis and AI I can see finally the games being played at a subtle level. Your channel, books like “Games people play” and similar are giving me my sanity back.
I recently had a very terrible experience with a liar, who, what's more, used to be my good friend. I couldn't believe it when I confronted him about his lies and manipulations towards me for three whole weeks. As you mentioned at 18:34, there was no dialogue with him, he didn't confront what I was saying to him, he only focused on making me feel guilty. Like a broken record, he kept telling me not to get angry, and at the same time he was unable to explain the deceptions that were the reason for my anger. It was as if he was pretending not to hear, but what's worse, he heard everything and turned the tables instead of trying to communicate. It was impossible to talk to him, to find understanding, although I tried for a very long time. And it was only because of an old acquaintance. It's sad. I knew him, and today I don't know who he is, why he does it. He deceived me and he deceives himself.
Say you're in the woods and a wild animal acts threateningly to you. The correct course of action sometimes is to also match a threatening stance while backing away. That is the point of this tactic with a manipulator, they play games and the only way to compete is to play the same game. It is not morally wrong to play the game that someone else started. Yes, it's better to cut that person out of your life and never be forced into those games again. But this is not always an easy fix as people can be in a relationship for months or even years with someone before they show their manipulative tactics. This is why it's important to learn how to handle these situations and how to back out while keeping as much as your own peace as possible.
I do think that it's better to not play the game at all or not use any dirty tactics. One has to be very careful to not make using that tactic your habit and second nature, because in the end you might become a manipulator yourself.
_"It is not morally wrong to play the game that someone else started."_ But that already assumes that the other person _has_ started that game, i.e. is lying. If they are actually telling the truth, *_you_* are the one who starts that game.
@@Wolf-ln1ml true. Real life example: I wasn't going to stick around the second time my ex falsely accused me of cheating because he cheated in retaliation to his ex wife. Not going to let someone try to "dominate" the situation because they feel "morally justified".
I would love a more in depth video about how someone acts when being accused of lying but is actually being honest. Dr K touches the subject a little bit in the end of this video, but I want more. MOAH!
Another point to be made in deception detection: never read someone based on body language, instead analyze their statements. Also, label the behavior not the person- manipulation gets murkier the closer the people are to you. “Abuse” in its rawest form is devaluing the victim. Don’t spend too much time trying to diagnose toxic people. No matter how much you try to address the specific behaviors of an abuser (name calling, gaslighting, double standards) it’s about the way they think not the behavior- which comes down to entitlement and control
How do you deal with being called out as a liar when you are telling the truth? I often get accused of lying for making inappropriate eye contact, not having proper emotional responses, my speech pattern changing or needing to take a pause. Showing people evidence or telling them about my medical conditions often make people even more suspicious of me. In the Adderall example, I wouldn't have even bothered trying to get a refill from you, in fear you would have thought I was trying to manipulate you into giving me them and cutting me off entirely.
💯 this. I feel a lot like you have mentioned feeling in these situations. I, honestly, think everything about this video's presentation was increadibly irresponsible. Being toxic to find out if someone else is toxic is a terrible policy, and a good way to torture and further traumatize innocent people.
I have ADHD and I have had 10+ pills stolen from me before. It was a shitty week. Now they're locked up. When we go to a doctor for meds, and say they were lost or stolen, they expect a police report to be made. If you do not resist, then they know it's legit. Been there. But still, the only time I would ever tell them that something happened to my meds, is if I am giving a urine sample and I know they were off and I know they will ask. That is because I do not think I will be believed, I do not think the stress of dealing with it is worth getting the meds, unless it is more than a weeks worth. I would imagine being tapped out for more than a week per month would be enough to wreck my life, so I would probably bother for more than a week's worth.
@@chriscivarra471This was exactly my line of thought while watching this video. I have had people in my life use these methods of "truth finding" in situations when I was telling the truth. A good example for anyone who doesn't get it, is a partner who always expected I was cheating on him, when I never had. I would show him my location, photos with timestamps while I was out with friends, call him the SECOND I got home, etc. NO amount of digging and twisting my arm would ever satisfy him and he really thought he was in the right. Thank fucking god he never saw this video because what he would have done to further manipulate me with the prompts given here would have fucked me up more than things already were. I've dated a FEW people actually who could take this video and run with it, thinking they are 100% in the right.
omg the observing... ive started watching for people getting pissed off when they try to influence my thought process... if they get irritated or angry i know im poking in the right places to call them out on bullshit. and it feels sooooo good when you actually know its backfiring on them.
@ The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli Discourses by Epictetus The Red Book Liber Novus by Carl Jung (highly recommend) Meditations by Marcus Aurelius How to flourish by Aristotle How to think like a Roman emperor by Donald Robertson I could give you a few more, but we’d be here all day lol
@@slimjimmacho5397 thank you so much!!! I'm a psychology student so I'm veeeery interested in all of that! I love Jung! Don't hesitate to recommend me more stuff 😂
As a woman who has been in an abusive relationship with a person who was constantly paranoid, he would use some techniques like this to try to catch me in a lie. Can you go over how someone reacts when they are NOT lying? I’m concerned that some people might use these techniques to confirm insecurities (unintentionally) rather than discover truth. The reason I say this is because I’m thinking back to that relationship and I think I would have answered in very similar ways because I was so desperate to keep him from leaving me. How does a person who is not trying to manipulate you respond? Or if someone is trying to manipulate their partner into staying, but not lying to them, how might that look different? Not condoning that either, but I’m pretty sure I would have done several of these things if he had accused me of cheating. I hope this makes sense
Look into codependency and codependent behaviors. "Codependency for dummies" is a decent start. Pia Melody "recognizing codependency" is an oldie but a goodie.
a video on recovering from a relationship from a person like this would be helpful. i am paranoid of other people now, especially men. i used to love everybody so much, i want to find my way back to that.
Why would you need a video about that? This person isn’t all ppl, and you already know that. The problem isn’t “other ppl”, the problem is the fact that you were naive and someone took advantage, and your brain is telling you not to let that happen again. We’ve ALL done the same, and we’ve all been naive at some point. And then you meet someone malicious. So; u want to know how to “recover”? Stop focusing on them and what they did, acknowledge where you went wrong instead. Where did you ignore signs of betrayal? Where did you allow them to convince you not to trust yourself? What was the real reason you let yourself be fooled? Bc of your own insecurities? Or were you like a child and trusted far too much with someone far too undeserving? If you can admit all that to yourself, without judging yourself for it, then and only then can you trust yourself again. Bc it’s not “other ppl” you’re paranoid about, it’s YOU. If you trusted yourself to be wise enough and strong enough to stand on your own, it wouldn’t matter what other ppl were capable of. The weakest thing you can do is refuse to trust anyone ever again. The bravest thing you can do is to recognize that other ppl have “snakes” as someone said once, and so do you, lurking inside, and you choose to trust that person anyway bc you know, even if they hurt you, you’ll be alright. There is no “recovering” until you can do that, there’s only running. So step one: figure out where they took you for a ride, and then figure out why you chose to let them, bc I guarantee there was SOMETHING that gave them away, but you ignored it. Then you can forgive yourself for it and move on. Radical accountability for your own part in things is the only way you can trust yourself or others going forward simply bc anything less than that signals to your brain that you are incapable of protecting yourself in the world, therefore you shouldn’t go outside at all.
The Holy Spirit (which is a gut feeling and a direct KNOWING). Why? Because Christ always wants good for you, but I have experienced that demons and their buddy boys people hop, so you shouldn’t trust anyone who is not infilled with the Holy Spirit (i.e. told Christ they believe in Him and want to be saved from being influenced by demons). Most people today reject the Holy Spirit, even relying on their own holiness, which can never understand the unknowable for humans. It’s all in the New Testament of the Bible-even how to tell if people who say they’ve accepted Christ to trick you haven’t (1 John). Know that people without Christ are wildcards, even if they aren’t obviously the Joker.
I went through the same thing and I understand you. Don't stop loving people, please. That are people out there that really need your love and that are deserving of your love. You just need to learn how to spot these kinds of bad people. The world is not only made of liars. You exist. Do you consider yourself an honest person? If yes, there you go. You're not the only honest person in this world. Pay attention to what environments you're inserted in. Pay attention to people's actions and if their actions match their words. If you notice a liar, just stay away. Don't waste your energy arguing with someone like that. You'll be fine! Also, search for therapy!!! ❤
Your ability to articulate is truly your superpower! I love hearing these thoughts beautifully expressed. Could you create some videos to help us understand ourselves and our emotions? I struggle with self-awareness, but I’m very curious.
I don’t usually watch a lot of psychology videos on youtube because a lot of them are made by people who aren’t actually qualified to talk about those topics but your videos have genuinely helped me feel not only seen, but also helped me understand the mentality behind certain behaviours among other things. Thank you 😭🙏🏻🙏🏻
I found this video lacking in counterfactual examples. Particularly, how the reactions described in the first 2/3 of the video would differ if the other person is being truthful. It's touched on a bit at the end, but I don't see how the opening example would play out any differently. An honest person being accused of cheating and afraid of losing their relationship would likely react in the exact same way that Dr K describes. So, all this is really effective at detecting is that someone wants to change your mind about something and cares about the outcome. If someone played this game with me when I was being honest, I would be furious, possibly wrecking any relationship I had with the person.
I think the distinction is how a manipulator is more likely to fluctuate emotionally and try to tackle the goal of manipulating you in different angles. Only speaking from personal experience, if I was falsely accused about something, I typically counter in disbelief and try to reason with them in a similar emotional state. Let say it is so outrageous that my wife is convinced I cheated, I get angry. When she "jebaits" me, I'll calm down but I'll be so tunnel visioned on my own anger and would have to sit her down to talk about that. If she flips it on me again, I will likely still be honest with her in a pissed off state. Internally in my head, I would be thinking about how pissed off I am to hear all this, and I'd be more focused on that as a priority than to try to find tactics to guilt trip her.
Yeah, it's severely undercooked. While, maybe, a liar would more linearly react to your own "manipulation", negative emotions to negative outcome, positive to positive, I don't think that the majority of people would be able to tell the difference. And it's not something you can train, realistically. Unless you routinely confront liars (knowing already they are liars) and you test this technique on them, you won't get good enough at this before burning various bridges, personal or professional. Plus, it's so fucking easy for a liar to change their behavior. "Oh, their secret weapon is my emotional fluctuation based on their responses, well I'll just stick to pissed!". It's realistically the equivalent of "liars wear red hats". Surely some honest people wear red hats too, plus liars can now change to green hats to throw this detection method off. Plus, it doesn't really help. Say you suspect your partner is cheating, you do this method and the signs show they "are lying". Then what? - "So I know this lie detection method from Dr. K and you fell right for it, I know you're lying" - "Whelp, you got me. Damn you Dr. K and your lie detection methods!" Would people have enough confidence in this to break up, without further proof?
I was unfortunately that honest person (inasmuch as someone can be honest - I was _not_ cheating), and had to ask for a divorce after an embarrassingly short marriage of only 7 months (after having been with her for 6 years prior to getting married). What's difficult is that actually she was trying to deceive me, but in a more abstract way; it was like a long con. After we got married, she changed a lot, and played hot and cold, trying to tell me that she truly loved me and that she was not treating me the way she was (accusing me of cheating, shit testing me to no avail, a lot of verbal put-downs that had nothing to do with infidelity and I won't share here, and guilt tripping) on purpose, but months later let slip that she was doing it out of resentment. And last I checked, resenting someone is a thing you do intentionally... I was trying simultaneously to manage her wrathful emotions and to figure out what I was doing wrong, for her comfort, because I felt that if I just found the "golden thing" that was bothering my wife, we could move forward and fix things. I was trying to find a way to change my behavior (how often and with whom I went out, what hobbies I pursued, etc) in order to help alleviate her self-purported constant existential paranoia and pain. I did manipulate her near the end; as I was on my way out of my marriage, I was planning how to get out, what to do, how to persuade her to not seek vengeance and go "full scorched earth" in a divorce, etc... It was like a nasty, weird dance and negotiation, and while it could be seen from a moral perspective as OK, it felt grimy to say the least. It's only been 7 months since I asked for a divorce, and I still feel ashamed and guilty for manipulating her at all. In other words, through walking the path myself, I would _not_ recommend manipulating a manipulative liar if you don't absolutely have to in order to detect their deception. The emotional fallout has been really scary and difficult, it's made me feel like I was in the wrong because I was being deceptive towards someone who was trying to deceive me in such a subtle way, and I'm still working through it months later and might be working through it for a long time.
Honestly, I don't get why counter-manipulation is suggested as a method of figuring out if a girlfriend is truthful or not. It's probably a great tool when you are navigating the environment where direct communication is not expected (like, probably anything except friendship and marriage/dating), but I'm not sure that this is good method here. I still do agree that you should watch carefully for reactions of the other person to your questions, answers, their overall behavior.
I'm giving up all of my bad habits overnight, a lot thanks to you Dr. k. I'll be documenting it on my channel and I'm hoping it can heal my shattered brain. Thanks for your inspo, cheers!
It's interesting watching a video of something that I've become really good at, and listen to a professional explanation of what's actually happening. Sadly these skills cost a lot of self reflection and past pain if you discover them by yourself.
@lilzuplada1564 there are plenty of good and honest people out there to never be lonely ever again (not for longer than a while at least). Either you assume someone is lying too early but never test and see if your assumption was true and write off good people because you look for and find something that isnt there, or you don't hang around in the right places and dont meet the right kind of people.
There's an argument that goes something like "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." I think the same could be said on counter-manipulation.
Super fascinating thinking about your explanation of what to do with liars and emotionally manipulative people, as over years I developed this defense mechanism on my own having to deal with a lot of them in the past. Started out as just getting apathetic towards the BS over years of being used and taken advantage of so I would just agree and accept the worst case scenario and move forward as if it wasn't true. Then noticing how when I stopped letting my emotions get controlled they suddenly acted very different, and they would panic or even admit they were lying if I took away the consequence for getting caught lying. It's been very useful in diffusing tense situations between friends where one person was being deceitful and figuring out why, as usually the liar has some underlying background situation going on that's also not being addressed. Never really thought about what I was doing laid out in a system like how you explained it though and it's really cool to see that.
The cutting-out-the-bs method seems way more useful. Making a liar think it's in their benefit to tell the truth seems much better. The example for counter-manipulation is confusing, because the way the liar is being portrayed to behave is also the exact same way a person who is telling the truth would behave. If my partner believes I am cheating on her and I am NOT cheating on her, I am also going to go through a variety of emotions and arguments if she refuses to or cannot believe me. I will be upset, confused, and eventually angry. I will be sad that we are fighting. I will eventually be exhausted that we are arguing. Appealing to someone's emotions is also a normal method of honest persuasion too. Imagine your spouse accuses you of cheating and you say that you're not (and you aren't), and they say, "Okay, I believe you." Of course you will feel better. If they then do the opposite and say, "...but I don't know if I can trust you," imagine how confusing and upsetting that would be. How does this observation of behavior separate someone who is telling the truth from someone who is lying?
Very useful. I love your way of explaining things. I have run into another type of trap in this life: people who try break my confidence when they detect that I have a talent. The strange thing is I forgot about it when I moved to a big city with a very generous atmosphere. Now I live in a small city again, where some people do this. In this case, checking out from the conversation and turn to other people is the best way.
The jealousy some people hold...they will resent you for your potential, for your excellence at reaching said potential...because they are too cowardly to even try to reach theirs 😢
What confuses me about this one: What If the other person is actually telling the truth but you‘re out here pulling this whole deception and manipulation game? They‘ll think you are not trustworthy or a manipulator.
When you try to protect yourself, it's obvious that the other person isn't trying to hurt you. Part of this is having your armor up but knowing not to keep putting more up.
But if someone is telling the truth and you pretend to believe them, they will calm down, and when you pretend not to believe them, they will become more agitated.
The point is that a manipulator will switch tactics, will rapidly switch to a different flavor of emotional manipulation trying to find the one that works. It is that rapid switching that you are looking for.
Big difference. Someone telling the truth will be internally focused if they're not believed. They don't have the wild escalations of emotions to guilt you. They may have a temper but they're racking their brains to figure out why the truth was distorted. Someone lying does not care about their own internal emotions, they are laser focused on manipulating your emotions, to benefit the liar. As described in this vid. liars try 1 tactic after another always increasing their energy levels to leave you feeling weakened & submissive.
I feel like someone could also both be telling and truth and be manipulative, by having anxiety. Anxiety is all about trying to control the situation: "I can't let X happen to me", so I could see them trying everything possible to make you listen
I view emotion as a dangerous drug. I deal with my own, and are not responsible for your drug abuse. As soon as someone says that they know my emotional state... I already know that they seek to manipulate me, and I already know they cannot.
@SelmaThornton-k4d Has not been my experience. Every person that uses emotion has attempted to manipulate me in some manor, by trying to tell me what emotions they thought I was feeling or forcing me to deal with their own. Have ever considered how toxic it is to rely on others for your own emotions? I doubt you have.
@@S_R_AHThis is a normal thing called co-regulation and both co- and self-regulation are needed to be healthy. Calling emotions dangerous drugs actually makes you sound very emotionally stunted.
@Kyrmana Interesting take... If I am emotionally stunted though, how does it help to be constantly subjected to the emotions of others? I mean, if I were stunted, its probably because of the amount of times people forced their own emotions on me in developmental stage: Making 'stunted' the correct stance that separates me from the issue. Regardless of yr opinion, I am how I am. Implying that i am incorrect because you don't like how I am is an 'ad hominem fallacy', and it destroys your rebuttal and yr standing to argue IMO.
@@S_R_AH You're just proving my point. You should probably find a professional to talk about this 1 on 1, they'll be able to help you deal with both your and others emotions. Life can be much easier, my friend.
This is literally why I have very few friends. And even fewer close friends. I learned this very early on, probably just before I was a teenager. I have a very small amount of patience for emotional manipulation. As soon as I feel like someone is trying to persuade/ control my emotions for their benefit and it seems to make me feel guilt, shame, FOMO, etc, I jump immediately into observation and questioning mode and back off. When they try to insult me (like in Phase 2, using their anger), I'll admit, at that point I feel like I'm trolling them because I'll validate their emotions without getting my emotions involved which ultimately angers them more. By that point they learn their lesson that it's not a game I'll ever play and they don't talk to me. Ever. The brave ones will do so with more caution. I've taught this to my children as well. My son, at 14, is very calm around other's intense emotions, and spots BS quickly. Even my own if I'm not being fully transparent (good for him). Quite honestly he always has been calm although when he was an infant and very young, he would retreat to me during intense emotional or stimulating situations. My daughter, now 11 and a 6th grader, is learning to spot bullies, manipulators, and attention seekers. She's a love and ideally wants everyone to be okay. She's learning her boundaries and listening to her emotions (quite the fascinating thing for her right now). When she feels like it's not comfortable to be around someone she acknowledges it and finds/ "realizes" she has something else to do to give herself space to process or just decompress. A year ago she had a really hard time with a friend of 5 years that was becoming an emotionally manipulative, attention seeking bully. Even gaslighting her when called out (and trying to emulate teenagers in media). With my assistance she got out and learned to manage it by setting strong boundaries to stop her. She's happy it ended without drama but hopes her ex friend will grow out of her behavior (the friend transferred out for middle school). My daughter is still recovering from it. But thankfully, learning what she doesn't want in her relationships has taught her to recognize what she does want. She's also learning to not react too strongly/ anxiously when new people remind her of that friend by being present and observing, and is slowly finding new friends she enjoys being around and can trust. I feel like her intuition is doing well as the kids she's befriending and vibing with are so sweet, playful, thoughtful, validating and easygoing. (And their parents are just as cool too.) As Dr. K has taught us, it's their corrective behaviors that have really helped her heal and work through the trauma of the prior situation. I do wish these lessons were taught to children earlier. I think we'd see people be more genuine in communicating who they are and what they truly need instead of using manipulation to get it. That said, I imagine this is a learned behavior from their upbringing or experience. It's not my place to judge or diagnose, but I'll to listen to someone's honest feelings and learn from it. Maybe other's would benefit from seeing these challenges as a learning experience too.
My parents have always lived such a healthy relationship that I've become effectively immune to most kinds of manipulation. I've never been gaslighted, never been cheated on, had my last toxic friendship 11 years ago when I was 13, and just generally never felt deceived in any relationship. I used to think this was pretty normal and was horrified to learn what kind of other shit people were dealing with. None of this was explicitly taught to me, though. I feel like just watching my parents do it the right way was enough, because when I saw someone do it the wrong way, it felt so alien to me that I got put off immediately. And I completely relate to the trolling😂 I'll see people try to trigger me and figure out my insecurities to manipulate me, and I can't help but be amused and play along because it's so hilariously obvious. I still haven't figured out if that's mean on my part or warranted, but either way, very funny
High chance of these techniques NOT working if you yourself haven’t dealt with your own issues like emotional dysregulation and internal boundaries. As a 50-something who’s juggled toxic family and abusive partners I can share the best method for dealing with liars/manipulators is don’t dance with them. Just say no and walk away. I don’t have to try and sus out what the truth is anymore because I base my choices off actions and underlying patterns. If someone repeatedly acts shady, has outbursts, acts rude or mean, or consistently makes me uncomfortable…I walk away. I no longer wait to see ‘how it will play out’ or give them chance after chance to prove themselves. If that means no contact then so be it. I do not have the time or bandwidth to play games. It’s not always easy but it’s part of my moral code now. I’m always willing to talk thru a thing once but if it isn’t followed by action I’m done. Life is too short. Part of what makes boundary setting challenging is that it requires self worth, or at least a cultivated sense of optimism…no matter how shit things seem (rejection, loneliness, etc) you hold onto the belief that these experiences are fluid and will shift into something better over time.
Exactly. Always listen to people's actions, and respond to them with your own. Don't get caught up in pretty words. And as I've grown older I've learnt the best solution to these situations is to opt out of the games manipulators play...don't waste your time trying to win, especially if you're emotionally attached to the situation, opt out. I learnt that I have the power to leave and leave I shall.
I really hope enough people watch this video. That at some point there is a misunderstanding that someone is being manipulative. And they both start using counter-manipulation, then it devolves into counter-counter manipulation. Until there is some breakthrough in which they both people realize they are telling the truth.
This seems really hard if you're not used to interacting with people like this. I feel like the interaction with the maybe liar would not leave much brain power for thinking about the metainteraction.
Hey, I was a mythomaniac and I can say not only that this is absolutely true, but I also discovered some things I was doing unconciously and till this day I still improving even tho it's been a while since I don't say a lie. Thanks K for your amazing job, and please if you encounter a mythomaniac beloved reach em some help, cause quite a time will pass until they admit they have a problem
This is the most informative video on manipulation ever. Thank you for your work. I never realized this was happening to me. Now I need the courage to leave
I think I need to watch this video more than once, or get more examples. Especially concerning gaslighting where they toy with your emotions. And when you express them, they slam the "I'm not responsible for your emotions".
"If you don't care about my emotions, why are we even here?". A person who loves you will be sad knowing they caused you pain evem if it wasn't intentional. There is of course a mirror situation where it's the person saying what I said above that's the abuser, for example always being like "look how sad you make me" every time you bring up any issues, but... I guess just be reasonable and don't manipulate people and you'll be good.
@@tymondabrowski12 I always wonder if I'm manipulative or not. I always try to be genuine. I always put myself in question, but I want to be sure I'm not gaslighting myself either. Like to bury down emotions, because they are not "correct". For instance, I get anxious when someone sends a text, I answer back right away, and the person doesn't answer for hours. I'm reading about anxious attachment, but at the same time, it feels disingenuous from them to be present one sec, and not the next one, you know? I noticed some people answer with "I got your message, I'll think about it and come back to you". Some people don't do that at all. When is it ok to complain you know?
@@paulv2348 Maaaaaybe, you are abandoning your self to please others, then become resentful when the "effort" is not reciprocated (notice: an effort they did not ask for). In that case you need to learn to put your own self first before others. And learn to give without needing ANYTHING back in return. And if you can't give in that way, don't give at all. Then you won't become resentful. Have fun and stay curious! :)
@@tothemoon8465 you might be right. But also... I don't like to always put myself first. It gets lonely. I do hikes, I read, I cook, etc. I just want to share that. I love to give love. But sometimes, they just take and don't reciprocate. And I can't give forever, stay curious about them, but they don't reciprocate. And I have to redo all the effort again with someone new because I will move on. Then I feel lonely. I can't spend my life with just myself. I want to share experiences, I want to be hugged, I want to be loved. A smile brings me joy. I want someone who cares about bringing me joy in the same way.
@@paulv2348 i feel u bro. But this repeating situation for you will keep repeating until you learn your lesson. "You find the most valuable treasure in the places where you least want to look" Jordan Peterson. You might benefit from setting boundaries, so you can keep your energy to yourself AND to the people that actually reciprocate your energy. Now you're wasting it left and right and feel shit about it. And I don't blame you, it's not your fault. But it is your responsibility to fix. You might benefit of watching Jordan Petersons lecture series "Maps of Meaning (2017) " on his yt channel. Has helped me a lot. I used to have that same issue too. Cheers and GL
From my experience, those with intention to lie or hide facts tend to shift and shuffle around different topics/emotions rather than going straight to the point. Which is a bit similar to what Dr. K suggested, the using of different emotions to try to manipulate. For honest people having real issues, they tend to harp on the same issue because that IS the major thing they have on their minds at the moment.
Alright, now I need a guide on how to deal with false accusations and how to stop feeling guilty for being accused of something patently untrue. How can we dispel accusations when we can't simply prove that we are telling the truth? How to stop feeling dirty after being accused, how to detach emotionally from that guilt and shame when the accuser tells you that their suspicions are rooted in their past? I feel awful after being accused of something I didn't do and after resolving the issue I can't shake these feelings even if I *know*, cognitively, that I did nothing wrong, even when the person themselves apologized and explained that they are suspicious because they've been hurt before. Being with someone who was very suspicious and accusatory made me obsessively collect evidence of where I am and who ai am with and why - even when I have been single for long. For the same reason - I feel guilty confronting someone without concrete proof - even in situations where concrete proof simply cannot exist. It sucks to be "delicate".
I find it pretty challenging to cleverly stand up against someone's lie, not only because some people are exceptionally adept at lying but mostly because of a "me" thing to be fair (and also, sometimes circumstances surrounding certain lies can more or less impede one's effectiveness at standing up against said lie). What i mean by a "me" thing is that i was pretty naive for years and years, i'm still a lot naive in reality but i've also learned to be quite more skeptical, though in my naivete there's this little something that wants to believe people are not as dishonest as that. Needless to say, i got gaslit and all those kinds of things more than anyone would ever like. I also refuse to lie in order to catch someone in a lie, i don't want to become that which hurts so many people in order to save myself, i don't want to nurture the chain of lying either. Instead i've learned to call them out instantly once i would pick up on their bs (with more or less tact depending on the circumstances around it, but never acting insulting, mad, swearing, or other overly aggressive demeanors), and after years of doing that you can often tell who has a liar's reaction or an innocent reaction to being called out. What's pretty funny is that those who claim to be super smart are some of the poorest liars out there, but others are definitely the most creative, crafty and silver-tongued demons whispering in your ear. It's especially tough when the liar believes his own lie, though i've mostly encountered such people back in psychiatric hospitals, some don't even realize they are lying at all... My sympathies to those who genuinely struggle with pathological lying. Outside of that context, people who end up believing their own lies are actually pretty rare and also a moment where facts are absolutely needed in order to break through such deep rooted lies. But I digress... Lies are a complex matter, and i applaud you for this video on the subject, thank you very much for your work !
Okay, this is creepy. I was literally just thinking about how many people in the past tried to make me think I was in the wrong when I wasn't. Edit - My point isn't that I am perfect or that I can't improve in any way. That couldn't be further from the truth. My point is that in situations where I was mistreated, I was gaslight into thinking I was wrong in situations where I did nothing wrong. Also, regarding me standing up for myself. That is easier said than done. I don't like arguing with people. It physically stresses me out. Also, I have met an abundance of people (some of whom were 10/15/20 years older than me) who don't want to listen. In my opinion, I don't see why I should try and explain my point to someone who doesn't want to hear it. Also, when I say I want people to listen. I don't mean I want people to blindly agree with me. I mean I want people who are willing to try and see my point of view and understand where I am coming from. If I am wrong, I would rather people point out where I went wrong and give constructive feedback rather than discard my opinion altogether. Also, I'm 20. I'm still trying to figure things out.
Stand up for yourself when you are right, literally no one else will and no one worth your time will get upset that you stood up for yourself. In fact, its a good filter.
And if you find out that you were wrong, good! At least you talked about it instead of quietly disagreeing (which leads to further communication barriers)
When you are in a position where your interlocutor refuses to listen to you, you are in the midst of a power dynamic, not a relationship. This is a cold war that you're describing here - fight it like one, using leverage against them and diplomacy with potent allies. Show no mercy.
@@AlastorTheNPDemon hahhhh. thanks, i needed to hear that. it's what i've been feeling for a while but didn't have the words to describe. i'll remember that one.
Completely understand where you’re coming from mate! I’ve lived what you’re taking about. To have the maturity, introspection, self-awareness and resilience you have at 20, you’re doing amazing! Love from Aus ❤🇦🇺
I used to pathologically lie because my adhd, rejection dysphoria etc I worked it through and got a sense of self worth and feel ok with feeling unpleasant emotions if it finally makes me a better person and helps me in the end. now I send this movie to everyone and tell them to challenge me if I do this shit. It’s a learning moment for me
From this video, by not taking it personally. It’s their problem that they’re delusional about being superior. By being offended/slighted by them, they are successful at controlling you.
@@di_kid00That doesn’t deal with the “aggressor” part. In my experience, someone who is like that and is actively trying to subdue you isn’t going to care if you’re “Zen” about it. You have to fight back; however, they’ll fight dirty. So have backup. If you can, get away.
@@davidross2004 it may help to just walk away. If it gets physical, that’s another issue and you should defend yourself! Coming from a family that was physical and mentally manipulative, the best decision I made for myself was to disengage & walk away. Go grey rock & not care at all for their BS.
Its kind of unfortunate that because of social anxiety I am so nervous of people hating me that I find unaceptable for them to even suspect anything wrong from me. So even if I am telling the truth I am so triggered about it that I look like I am lying. So this technique would definetely fuck me up. Just to be clear. I always look suspicious because I am always scared people will hate me. And my goal, or my minds goal is to manipulate that so people will always like me. So even if I am telling the truth my mind go through a manipulative spiral.
My wife cheated on me in the last month. My response is the way you described the liar to be. Telling her all that I’ve done for her and being angry and she’s the one trying to avoid conversation acting as if I’m the one who did the wrong. 😢
This all sounds so difficult to actually work through with someone.. I'm afraid I won't be able to do it. All I have is a gut feeling and a boundary about aggression, but actually it's kind of too late at that point because I'll stay anxious about a person like that long after they acted (passive)aggressive. Getting upset and making me feel guilty about having feelings is the worst thing ever :(
I love these videos. Such positivity& knowledge in a vast amount of negativity& division. Were need more ppl like him speaking& teaching about human nature, psychology & sociology. This is very interesting info & shows how we're ALL manipulated on a small & larger stage as well. We are all humans.. none of us are better than anyone else based on gender, race or sexual orientation.. or any less capable of being manipulated.
If you remain calm and rational, then they can’t manipulate you. If you get hurt and upset, then your ability to think clearly evaporates. Then they manipulate you. So the question is, did they get you to become emotional by doing that? The other thing that everyone is missing is that a good person doesn’t want to upset you. A good person will slow down and quiet down the conversation when they see you are getting emotional. A manipulator will step on the gas pedal when they find a way to upset you.
Wow; that would apply to what you hear and read on the news, from govt, and "authorities". Luckily I have always had that thing where i'm unsure, so i step away and watch and assess things for a while before I am confident about "it" and then I join in if it's a good idea for me or move forward in the direction I am comfortable with. Honestly, at age 57 - 4 years ago (hint hint) I started to noticed this with the news etc. Thank you for this video, sir.
What I wonder is, how do I deal with someone who has been lied to, and that person doesn't want to let that lie go. My observation so far is, if I bring up anything that puts their world view in danger, they get angry.
Firstly, be someone they will respect. One of the easiest ways is by acknowledging what is true about their world view. Second, spoon feed them facts that don’t contradict them but make them question an aspect of it. Then it’s a grind until they change. There are people beyond changing, and this method can be unfruitful. If you don’t disconnect them from the source of misinformation then nothing changes.
"You said this is not your fault, instead that i'm mistaken. You said its not what it seems, no remorse from the trust you breaking" from Linkin Park 'Blackout'. Really shed a light on how manipulative people are around me.
This kind of reminds me of the Reid interrogation technique investigators use (even though it’s probably very different). They start off by building rapport with the suspect by telling the suspect “I don’t think you’re a bad person…” etc.. and then eventually ramp it up with a confrontation
This is just basic communication technique. It applies everywhere, so most people learn it sooner or later, some subconsciousy, others are very aware of it.
@@Lazdinger No, establishing rapport is. You can't convince other people of anything if they do not at least see you as a fellow human being that they have a modicum of respect for, be that in sales, in hostage negotiations or in a manipulative friendship. This is why this is referenced in any work that is somehow related to communication.
@@Volkbrecht Ah, I understand. Thank you, my friend. Yeah that makes sense. That’s probably what reminded me of the Reid technique - the _rapport_ building. I guess that’s what makes them so effective; both the RT and what Dr. K is talking about.
My "friend" talked me into investing his business and took my work and paid me next to nothing for it. I was supposed to be receiving profit shares and he refused to pay out. I knew it was going nowhere and finally gave up when he started trying to convince me that profit share trying to convince me that I owed him money if I pursued this any further. I don't think there's any way I could have done anything other than get out before I got too hurt. I wish I had these skill earlier on or maybe a little bit more self esteem to act on the red flags.
@@hideandsneakmalakk You are not alone. 1/3 of people are victims of white collars crimes in the US. Fraudulent inducement, bad faith negotiations, embezzlement, IP fraud-we have names for these things, but in my experience narc lawyers are part of the same hive mind as the perps. Govs are very aware of this, and many states have great laws if you can find one of the 3 lawyers who will take contingency for a non-personal injury case.
If it's an mlm / pyramid scheme (assuming sth like that because it's so common) he has someone he "owes" as well who's promising him returns for his investment etc and at the end of the chain there's just some guy in the Bahamas hoarding all that money. This shit will turn normal everyday people into scammers who fuck over all their friends, neighbors and family. It's like a cult but more contagious.
So, I was once accused of cheating by a partner. (0% validity to that accusation) In fact, in many ways, the situation in which I "had the opportunity to cheat" was created by them. If remember being crushed when they thought that of me, that I was capable and willing to cheat. I tried to ease their mind, I tried to create systems of accountability, I suggested cutting ties with people they might feel worried about me communicating with. No matter what I said, they would just say "that's something that a liar would say if they were cheating." I don't really get that. I wasn't saying "you're nuts, your feelings don't matter. I don't need to tell you anything." My response was like "how to I ease your mind? what boundaries do I need to set to make you more comfortable? Tell me more about what made you feel this way." But nothing I said could make it better, and eventually they sort of just dropped the subject by saying "I know you probably didn't cheat but I'll still never know if you did or not for sure." But from my perspective, EVERY situation he was feeling insecure about everything I did that upset him were things he verbally asked me to do, or situations he put me in....
Either he's so insecure you could never have a real relationship with him, or he's the one cheating and projecting onto you. In any case, that's not someone you can stay with.
So you asked him if he wanted you to stop doing thia or that . which means you knew on some level those things bothered him. So why didnt you just stop doing them instead of askimg and comtinuing to do them? Same with situations you say he put you into made him upset. Dont do them then. I think that a lot of people on some level play games or do things to see if the person gets jealous . if they do they care . not true . That never works. And people want to believe they tried their hardest and did everything they could. But no not really . because those werent things you felt you should change or didnt want to change. Just my opinion . could be wrong or just telling way too much about myself
@@IdowhatIwant8 I agree with you. I think personal responsibility is rare these days and this could be an example of someone who is blameless and only looks outwards. So many people (including myself in the past) will complain and blame other people as if they were completely helpless to make the situation any better. For me, this commenter screams red flags more than anything, and commenting like that could be a way of trying to prove to themselves that they didn't do anything wrong, and of course people will agree with them without any context to further reinforce that belief. Just a thought i had.
Beautiful explanation. Answered my question on emotional vs manipulative behaviour at the end of the video. However, also a bit concerning, if I think back to some experiences.
Sometimes she/he won't be lying but having cognitive distortions and those feel negative. That psychological pressure is the reaction to feeling like you are being manipulated with intimidations, accusations or seductions which are generated from the stress responses of fight, flight, freeze and fawn, so she/he is already feeling what you'll feel. If you repeat what someone else say to you as a matter of recognizing that he/she feels/believes it without you believing the content of it then she/he calms down and you are able to separate it: 'it's true that she/he says that but is it true what she/he is saying?' And most importantly, the same applies for yourself internally.
Havent seen the video yet. But one of my problems is that i fear everyone is using my feelings against me. I have a hard time dicerning when someone is being genuine or manipulative. So with that fear i tend to just be untrusting of anyone which then leads to a bit of isolation. Its tough
Maybe don't be so manipulated by your emotions then you won't have to worry about people using your emotions against you. This is known as "emotional intelligence".
This makes it sound very one sided tho. Ive been in a situation, in which I had to show my phone etc and eventho I didnt do anything wrong and had no intention to, but it just felt so uncomfortable to feel forced to "prove" my love by showing my phone and try to convince the other person of my intentions. That felt so stressful and toxic tbh
So... Hmm... This seems like a very good video on how to mess with someone you know is lying. This also seems like a very bad video for how to find out if someone is lying and instead a very good video on how to play games and mess up any trust there was from the other person. The thing is, these tricks work on liars but they also work on people telling the truth. Anyone being accused of cheating is going to be nervous and then calm down when you tell them you believe them. What's more, any sensible person will hear "You're right, I have no reason to distrust you, but I don't trust you anyway" and they're going to think "Well, what do I do now then? Evidence-wise and logically we agree that I'm in the clear but you're going to keep raking me over the coals because you feel weird?" Like, any sensible person will be like "No, this person is a game player and I've not got the patience for having my nerves frayed by them flipping and flopping and being irrational and emotional all the time." "Use this power for good" is all well and good but that assumes people can tell when it's appropriate or not appropriate to use this. I think many people will see this video and start using this in almost every situation because there's always the possibility of someone lying. That said, one of the later examples was really good and an example I'd recommend people follow. Casually saying "Oh, don't worry about it, I'll see that investor at lunch, so I'll just let them know then." is a great way to deal with the situation. It's sensible, it assumes good intention and yet it would still catch them out in their lie if they chose to lie. It's also not unreasonable for you to do. It's better to play the fool and 'blunder' through their lies than to play games. A similar example that happened to me the other day: I got a scam caller and I honestly didn't know if it was from my service provider or not. They were offering a loyalty discount on my next contract so I said "Oh, great, sure, you go ahead and apply that then." If it were my service provider then hurray, I get a discount. If it's not, I know they'll ask for more. So they begin asking for 'verification' and wanted my email address. Now, I only have one email address but they don't know that. So I said "Oh, sure, can you tell me the first 3 letters you have on file? I can't remember which email address I used when I signed up for my contract." Essentially, testing if they had any file at all, because the jury wasn't completely out on whether it was my actual service provider or not yet. When they failed to provide that I let the facade drop and told them I thought it was a scam and then hung up on them. So instead of playing emotional games, I would recommend the opposite: not being emotional while assuming good-will and then pretending to be stupid so that they have to tell you exactly what they want and how they want you to do it, because if they're trying to manipulate you into doing it, it's not the kind of thing they can just ask you to do.
Yes, but as he said, it is diagnostic as well. The decoupling of your analysis and emotion allows you to better figure out if they are lying at all. As soon as you’re sure, you can alter back to healthier relations.
I have a natural very good BS detector, I could never articulate how it worked, but Dr K has. You don't have to keep playing with people's feelings like he describes here. I always called it "single" v "double" feelings (which made sense to no one 😅): real feelings have a life of their own and don't really react to your response. They just are what they are. Like me yesterday, my car broke down. I felt irrationally guilty (repair will be expensive), I told my husband, he comforted me, but I still felt bad. The emotion didn't exist for the purpose of influencing hub's behavior, it existed for its own sake (my values, history, etc.)
Thank you so much for this video! Could you make more content on gaslighting, manipulation, and similar topics? I once caught someone lying and, coincidentally, I used the exact approach you suggested. He ran out of the room and avoided me for weeks. But later on, he backstabbed me. Situations like that, with manipulative games and betrayal, are really frustrating. How do you handle these kinds of behaviors in the long run? Especially when people laugh at you if you tell them that you are on their side, but they have to be honest? How do you deal with people who don’t take you seriously, where every conversation feels like walking on eggshells, and any wrong word sets them off? And all your questions are getting ignored or laughed at, like it's really something stupid?
I believe the honest truth is that the only right move in the situations you describe is to distance yourself from these people. If they’re not interested in engaging with you honestly and insist on deception or malice, they’re acting in bad faith. You can never force someone to act a certain way - you simply have to define and enforce your boundaries. Best wishes, I hope you meet more people who are as kind and authentic as you aim to be.
Dear Dr. K Over the last few months I’ve been struggling with starvation ketosis, in which it had lead to pre diabetes, which had my emotions all out of whack at certain times, especially when being confronted. I’ve watched you for awhile, and really agree with most of the things you say. But I think that this could potentially lead to problems- as the old saying goes. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Watching this video, and looking back on the relationship I just got out of, as I was being manipulated- I think my ex had watched this video, thought she was being manipulated, and had taken the “manipulate them back advice” and has now become a manipulator herself. Either we agree on something entirely already, or I’m wrong and it devolves into a whole argument where I need to apologize, then try and fix things, and it had really almost felt like a form of projection. I think this video may have caused a misunderstanding between us, and I had to leave because of the manipulation that I had seen. I can see how it makes sense for self defense, but I think that it needs to be said earlier on in the video how one can for sure know that they’re being manipulated..
So what do you do when you have truly lost your controlled prescription and the doc automatically does not believe you? Or that you did better on a certain prescription, stopped it because you couldn't afford it, and now can't get it because they think you're drug-seeking? Poggers.
As a woman who's currently surrounded by manipulative people (mostly other women) i think i unintentionally made myself a target by being sincere with these people from day 1. For additonal context I'm in college, i focus on my studies and dont involve myself in drama, i dont entertain bad faith gossip about others either, basically i didn't conform. And now ive begun to notice a lot of attempts to manipulate my behaviour to get myself into trouble, specifically because i have a very good relationship with the teachers. The way ive been combating this is by getting along with these people on a surface level but never recelaing anything personal, distancing myself when i notice an attempt to influence my behaviour, and most importantly being consistently good at studies, maintaining good relations with teachers and expanding my acquaintance/circle to non manipulative people. Yet they wont leave me alone, i can see that they're still waiting and trying to create opportunities for me to mess up. How do i get rid of them? Continue ignoring them?
I like the video I think its an amazing way to spread awereness. The problem with it tho is that it spreads the awereness to both sides. The liar is also gonna learn from this video.
I am so, *so* terrified that I act this way. I act in ways that are out of character and then just get so emotional, I can’t even control it, I admit it and feel so so guilty and I’m scared I feel that guilt to make the other person I wronged just be okay with it. I don’t know what to do really, I feel like most of my life is spent trying to suppress that side of me, the one that acts in ways I don’t agree with and then tries so desperately to cover it up, I’m riddled with guilt for things I feel like I never did but I *did do them* and then just tried to fix it. I want to fix it but I can’t and I feel like such a horrible person. I hate myself for it. I hope I’m not a narcissist or a sociopath but I’m just so scared that that’s how I act.
My ex told me she was dyslexic (I was teaching her write Korean since she mentioned liking k-dramas). A few weeks later I took her to the movies. I wasn’t expecting this, but the movie I picked was 90% subtitles (I thought it’d be more like 10-15%). I felt bad during the movie but neither of us brought it up. After the movie I asked her if she had trouble reading the subtitles. She said no, and asked why I was asking. Empathically I said: “because of your dyslexia.” She knew she had been caught. Tried to convince me she said “just kidding” after telling me she had dyslexia. I don’t remember her saying she was kidding. I remember her playing along when I asked if she was being serious, probably to get my sympathy. I could never trust her again 100% which led to the eventual breakup.
I like to put this into the perspective of societal pressures and activism extremists. Especially with the emotional manipulation through gaslighting, labeling, and othering.
This is a partial explanation for one of the causes of delayed diagnosis: unending suspicion. There's also the lack of follow-through, and lack of education and experience with different conditions, but still claiming to be authorities on every single condition without talking to a variety of patients of different severities. It resulted in misdiagnosis, missed diagnosis, and delayed diagnosis for 15+ years, and perpetuated the manipulation I experienced from specific people. When work requires accommodations, but a colleague is manipulating, then they can use my undiagnosed conditions to scapegoat, because medical professional didn't write a letter of accommodation. This resulted in loss of income. Then I'm in burnout and traumatized, and then conditions worsened, which also resulted in a persistent loss of income. Ask yourself: who will be harmed before you selectively cast suspicion on people you think are weird, even if you enjoy bonding over gossip and hope to resolve what people did to you.
This video is definetely for me. I totally cannot distinct of someone is manipulating me or not. I was raised by father who tought me that you should "always always tell the truth". So I did most of my young life. Only to realize after many years how stupid this advice is. Because you CANNOT always tell the truth. And you cannot trust that other people don't lie to you. So I learned hard way how much I can be manipulated and how little I see actually. I am much better about seeing when other people are deceived, like when my friends are telling me stories about their relationships I just SEE, they are manipulated. I can't see when someone manipulates me...
Dr K is great at shining a light on blind spots such as, "we teach kids not to lie, but not how to detect liars"
He is a fraud, and he is responsible for Reckful's death.
Because that's not what the government wants.
@@kronieno.2757 It is not what religions want. They want you to buy into the belief system without critical thinking.
@@johnhunt2390Same could be said for the government. They want you to believe in the structure and what you’re told without questioning it. It’s why so many people blindly follow political parties, on both sides.
Also parents lie and don't want to be caught. But it is assumed the kids will learn how to tell the difference between lies and truth later, since as a small child they believe obvious lies like Santa.
I had a short relationship with a girl who turned out to be a pathological liar. She was absolutely bizarre in her complete inability to tell the truth about almost anything and how casually she would lie about the most inane stuff. It took me a long time to trust people after I realised what she was, because I had never experienced anyone like that in my life. In situations where telling the truth wouldn't actually pose any problems for her she lied just because she...could?
So sorry to hear that. Been married 7 years to this kind of woman. Still struggling with trust issues after 2 years past the break up.
I also knew someone like this.
Mind blowing.
Oh yeah. I new a young man who told his girlfriend he has a Stalker, which was his side girl and to her he said nearly the same story. He tried this even when they caught him and met with him, both in one room! Like.. bro wtf. YOU are the problem 😅 This cuts deep into peoples souls.
Just be nice and trust your gut boys and girls! ❤
i was one of those people when i was younger. for me it all came down to "if I tell them honestly, I’m going to get in trouble”. didnt matter what the topic was, I would even lie about what I had for dinner last night.
it sounds paradoxical, but it’s actually her that isnt trusting of you, but quite frankly it has nothing to do with you, it’s all a trauma response. so the lack of trust is for her to untangle.
@@davidschhh I am replying to just because you seem vulnerable to give maliciously intended habitual liars the benefit of doubt: sometimes you just don't see their goal - it can be as stupid as testing out what people would ask, how to shut them down, what they respond to (feeling you up) or a long con. People do all sorts of stuff for all sorts of reasons - we can't read minds, let alone other people's subconscious. Really stupid example that I saw multiple times was : "I have money, I'm successful, I'm self-made, I'm generous - you pay for my stuff, and if you expect me to return the favour you're using me for money" (it was literally just forcing a narrative to make you feel bad for not giving them money **AS IF** they gave you 10x the amount 5min ago).
Not every liar lies because they're hurting, just because you did - some are lying to hurt you.
And I'm glad you found better ways and improved - it's not a small achievement 👍
Stepping outside of the convo and detaching emotionally so you can be more analytical of a liar/manipulator is so important.
I think for me this was what I had to do to get through childhood and struggle to be present now.
Taken too far this becomes dissociating from humanity, which can lead to very enlightening perspectives, but also breaks your connection to human values.
I think something more effective than "detaching emotionally", is to actually LEARN to lie and manipulate effectively. When you learn this skill, you can detect when others are trying to play those same cards.
Donald Trump is actually a great case study for this. I've never seen someone capable of inciting fear, disdain, anger at a national scale where people can feel those emotions at the same time and build a community of support around each other and around him as the answer. I would start by studying him, how he talks, what he talks about, and how he makes people feel.
Good advice. Liars tend to play for emotion as the truth doesn't back them up.
@@papakael8247 People can justify truth to be whatever they feel is correct. The manipulator's job is to provide the reasons for those feelings and make it as easy for them as possible to reshape and believe in their individual "truth".
Make them fundamentally distrustful of outside sources, impair their ability to critically or openly think, and make it painful for them to doubt you through the loss of community/connection/validation.
This is literally my mom. Gave up on trying to change her tho. Set boundaries and move on with your life. Society can keep calling me a bad person I value my mental health.
yeah, society does tend to take the parents' side, MY parents' parents, i.e. my grandparents are VERY toxic, and theyre beyond change, but we still keep them cuz theyre very old and need the support, gave them their own other house...
im lucky my parents are VERY understanding and good, but yeah, for you, you should do what youre supposed to do and think about things only from your perspective, the society doesnt know how toxic your mom is, you do and you have to deal with it, so dont think about what ppl percieve at all, its stupid. if youve been watching dr k, its the conept of dharma, what you should do is what matters to you, not to others
I left my family as well. It’s actually more peaceful with out the mind games and put downs.
@@prakharanand7012did you mean karma?
As a guy who had lying dad , now alcoholic with 200k + debts , i agree that letting them go is the best for your mental health. 😅
Its tough when its parents 😢
That whole thing about letting the liar get what they want a little bit but still holding up the boundry was something that actually happened with me unintentionally at one point.
I remember being suspicious of my partner (who i later found out did cheat on me) and i tried to explain to her that my lack of trust was probably from being cheated on in all my previous relationships. In the conversation, she couldn’t get her head around the idea that I had trust issues, it wasnt necessarily her fault, but I also wasn't going to take the blame or just stop being suspicious. By the end of it she was screaming, crying at me. She always knew that having a melt down made me want to console her because I hated seeing her upset. Once I realised that was her nuclear solution, she couldn't manipulate me anymore. Manipulators almost always use your empathy against you to get what they want. Once you empathise but dont give them what they want, their mask starts to crack.
My ex would full-on start WAILING and throwing himself at walls and shit having a whole episode when I wouldn't coddle him. It was fucking bizarre, and because I stonewalled he'd just get more and more outrageous in his behavior, making a total fool out of himself while trying to make me feel guilty enough to console him.
No entiendo porque la gente no se separa de sus parejas cuando les interesa alguien más
Bien por ustedes, espero que hayan encontrado a alguien mejor
@BiancamellaSays, he was probably making bids for connection, although unhealthy bids. And when you ignored him he acted out even more strongly.
This makes so much sense, I get into a lot of debates online and I’m astonished how many people just say things to aggravate. Like no honest rebuttals, evidence, question dodging, but the constant is they try to control your emotions. Having truth makes no difference because that’s not what they’re after.
It also makes me think of struggle sessions, or “uncomfortable conversations” which are also designed to get you to accept radical ideology through purely emotional means. Saying whatever will get you to “confess your sin” and adopt their ideas.
just curious, and i don't know what kind of debates you get into, but how many debates do you get your opinion changed, and how many do you see the other person's opinion change?
Also, sucks to see you have such a bad experience, hope you find some kinder people
Don't debate online. Anonymity makes people braver than they are (hurling insults/ad hominems). Debating in person mostly prevent those fake bravery, of course that not to say that arguing face to face isn't as stressful.
There is no point to get into a debate online. Just post your thoughts and feelings.. either people agree with you or they don't.
I think for me the worst part about it is when they create a point that you didn't make and then try to debate you on it.
Like they're asking you a yes or no question for something that doesn't have a yes or no answer.
as a (possible) schizoid intp, yea, seeing people try to converse and debate using only their emotions, and trying their hardest to get you to do the same really disappoints me lol
i also currently have a limerent erotomaniac, possible narcissist (enfj) clinging to the friendzone who only speaks with his emotions and lies that he continuously contradicts. (tried convincing me and everyone else that we were a physically intimate power couple many times, among other things) so that automatically makes me biased.
Great video, but I think the term "liars" is inaccurate here:
People who emotionally manipulate in this way are not always lying - people do this *when they are afraid you won't believe them*, for whatever reason.
I grew up with undiagnosed autism and ADHD, and was also academically "gifted". When I tried to tell the adults in my life about my difficulties, they didn't believe me. I was constantly punished for falling short of expectations due to circumstances I had no control over (e.g. doing homework because I couldn't focus despite trying for hours).
My solution? Manipulating and guilt-tripping my parents and teachers to convince them not to punish me. I was telling the truth all along, but I still had to be manipulative in order to be believed.
Whenever I suspect that someone is manipulating me, I always stop to consider the possibility that they're going through the same kind of thing I did. It's not applicable to every situation, but I feel it's important nonetheless.
Don't understand why you felt the need for manipulative behavior as a young child instead of believing you parents and teachers but instead internalize bad belive in your self worth.
@@MariannaOlsen A question about what a young child felt, in a child vs full grown adult dynamics ? What is a young child supposed to know and learnt from whom, the same adult parent?
True my son went through this! But I start bringing facts and so dod the universe 😊
@@MariannaOlsen that is an insane take. Read that back to yourself please.
I understand you, cause I have ADHD as well, but I would NEVER tell you to lie as a way to escape people not believing you, because you know what? THEN YOU HAVE BECOME A REAL LIAR!!! And if people get those lies of yours, it will be even harder for them to trust you. Lying is never a solution. It only traps you more and more and you can lose important people in your life. When you lie, it's a poison to the people that you're lying to and to yourself.
This is why its easier to notice it after the fact. We are emotionally detached by then
I’m neurodivergent but my backstory has put me in a position to feel I’m wrong about everything I “know” in my life.
Thanks to my diagnosis and AI I can see finally the games being played at a subtle level.
Your channel, books like “Games people play” and similar are giving me my sanity back.
I recently had a very terrible experience with a liar, who, what's more, used to be my good friend. I couldn't believe it when I confronted him about his lies and manipulations towards me for three whole weeks. As you mentioned at 18:34, there was no dialogue with him, he didn't confront what I was saying to him, he only focused on making me feel guilty. Like a broken record, he kept telling me not to get angry, and at the same time he was unable to explain the deceptions that were the reason for my anger. It was as if he was pretending not to hear, but what's worse, he heard everything and turned the tables instead of trying to communicate.
It was impossible to talk to him, to find understanding, although I tried for a very long time. And it was only because of an old acquaintance.
It's sad. I knew him, and today I don't know who he is, why he does it. He deceived me and he deceives himself.
Say you're in the woods and a wild animal acts threateningly to you. The correct course of action sometimes is to also match a threatening stance while backing away. That is the point of this tactic with a manipulator, they play games and the only way to compete is to play the same game. It is not morally wrong to play the game that someone else started.
Yes, it's better to cut that person out of your life and never be forced into those games again. But this is not always an easy fix as people can be in a relationship for months or even years with someone before they show their manipulative tactics. This is why it's important to learn how to handle these situations and how to back out while keeping as much as your own peace as possible.
I do think that it's better to not play the game at all or not use any dirty tactics. One has to be very careful to not make using that tactic your habit and second nature, because in the end you might become a manipulator yourself.
_"It is not morally wrong to play the game that someone else started."_
But that already assumes that the other person _has_ started that game, i.e. is lying. If they are actually telling the truth, *_you_* are the one who starts that game.
@@Wolf-ln1ml true. Real life example: I wasn't going to stick around the second time my ex falsely accused me of cheating because he cheated in retaliation to his ex wife. Not going to let someone try to "dominate" the situation because they feel "morally justified".
I would love a more in depth video about how someone acts when being accused of lying but is actually being honest. Dr K touches the subject a little bit in the end of this video, but I want more. MOAH!
Me too, I've experienced that type of manipulation more than just being lied to.
@@n00bified Same; it’s the one thing that triggers me the most! Family scapegoat problems.
Another point to be made in deception detection: never read someone based on body language, instead analyze their statements. Also, label the behavior not the person- manipulation gets murkier the closer the people are to you. “Abuse” in its rawest form is devaluing the victim. Don’t spend too much time trying to diagnose toxic people. No matter how much you try to address the specific behaviors of an abuser (name calling, gaslighting, double standards) it’s about the way they think not the behavior- which comes down to entitlement and control
How do you deal with being called out as a liar when you are telling the truth? I often get accused of lying for making inappropriate eye contact, not having proper emotional responses, my speech pattern changing or needing to take a pause. Showing people evidence or telling them about my medical conditions often make people even more suspicious of me. In the Adderall example, I wouldn't have even bothered trying to get a refill from you, in fear you would have thought I was trying to manipulate you into giving me them and cutting me off entirely.
💯 this. I feel a lot like you have mentioned feeling in these situations.
I, honestly, think everything about this video's presentation was increadibly irresponsible. Being toxic to find out if someone else is toxic is a terrible policy, and a good way to torture and further traumatize innocent people.
I have ADHD and I have had 10+ pills stolen from me before. It was a shitty week. Now they're locked up. When we go to a doctor for meds, and say they were lost or stolen, they expect a police report to be made. If you do not resist, then they know it's legit. Been there. But still, the only time I would ever tell them that something happened to my meds, is if I am giving a urine sample and I know they were off and I know they will ask. That is because I do not think I will be believed, I do not think the stress of dealing with it is worth getting the meds, unless it is more than a weeks worth. I would imagine being tapped out for more than a week per month would be enough to wreck my life, so I would probably bother for more than a week's worth.
@@chriscivarra471 Just because something hurts your feeling, it doesn't mean it's toxic.
Truth tellers are often minimized, and gaslighted by people, especially by those who don't want to hear the truth, or are inconvenienced by it.
@@chriscivarra471This was exactly my line of thought while watching this video. I have had people in my life use these methods of "truth finding" in situations when I was telling the truth. A good example for anyone who doesn't get it, is a partner who always expected I was cheating on him, when I never had. I would show him my location, photos with timestamps while I was out with friends, call him the SECOND I got home, etc. NO amount of digging and twisting my arm would ever satisfy him and he really thought he was in the right. Thank fucking god he never saw this video because what he would have done to further manipulate me with the prompts given here would have fucked me up more than things already were. I've dated a FEW people actually who could take this video and run with it, thinking they are 100% in the right.
omg the observing... ive started watching for people getting pissed off when they try to influence my thought process... if they get irritated or angry i know im poking in the right places to call them out on bullshit. and it feels sooooo good when you actually know its backfiring on them.
Philosophy has taught me so much about how to handle these people
What would you recommend me to read about philosophy to understand more about people who lie?? I love philosophy
@
The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli
Discourses by Epictetus
The Red Book Liber Novus by Carl Jung (highly recommend)
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
How to flourish by Aristotle
How to think like a Roman emperor by Donald Robertson
I could give you a few more, but we’d be here all day lol
@@slimjimmacho5397 thank you so much!!! I'm a psychology student so I'm veeeery interested in all of that! I love Jung! Don't hesitate to recommend me more stuff 😂
As a woman who has been in an abusive relationship with a person who was constantly paranoid, he would use some techniques like this to try to catch me in a lie. Can you go over how someone reacts when they are NOT lying? I’m concerned that some people might use these techniques to confirm insecurities (unintentionally) rather than discover truth. The reason I say this is because I’m thinking back to that relationship and I think I would have answered in very similar ways because I was so desperate to keep him from leaving me. How does a person who is not trying to manipulate you respond? Or if someone is trying to manipulate their partner into staying, but not lying to them, how might that look different? Not condoning that either, but I’m pretty sure I would have done several of these things if he had accused me of cheating. I hope this makes sense
Look into codependency and codependent behaviors. "Codependency for dummies" is a decent start. Pia Melody "recognizing codependency" is an oldie but a goodie.
a video on recovering from a relationship from a person like this would be helpful. i am paranoid of other people now, especially men. i used to love everybody so much, i want to find my way back to that.
I'm the same
I can't trust people or my perception anymore
Why would you need a video about that? This person isn’t all ppl, and you already know that. The problem isn’t “other ppl”, the problem is the fact that you were naive and someone took advantage, and your brain is telling you not to let that happen again. We’ve ALL done the same, and we’ve all been naive at some point. And then you meet someone malicious. So; u want to know how to “recover”? Stop focusing on them and what they did, acknowledge where you went wrong instead. Where did you ignore signs of betrayal? Where did you allow them to convince you not to trust yourself? What was the real reason you let yourself be fooled? Bc of your own insecurities? Or were you like a child and trusted far too much with someone far too undeserving? If you can admit all that to yourself, without judging yourself for it, then and only then can you trust yourself again. Bc it’s not “other ppl” you’re paranoid about, it’s YOU. If you trusted yourself to be wise enough and strong enough to stand on your own, it wouldn’t matter what other ppl were capable of. The weakest thing you can do is refuse to trust anyone ever again. The bravest thing you can do is to recognize that other ppl have “snakes” as someone said once, and so do you, lurking inside, and you choose to trust that person anyway bc you know, even if they hurt you, you’ll be alright. There is no “recovering” until you can do that, there’s only running. So step one: figure out where they took you for a ride, and then figure out why you chose to let them, bc I guarantee there was SOMETHING that gave them away, but you ignored it. Then you can forgive yourself for it and move on. Radical accountability for your own part in things is the only way you can trust yourself or others going forward simply bc anything less than that signals to your brain that you are incapable of protecting yourself in the world, therefore you shouldn’t go outside at all.
@@liz9284wow! Great insight!I really took this to heart!i really wish they taught this to kids in school.
The Holy Spirit (which is a gut feeling and a direct KNOWING). Why? Because Christ always wants good for you, but I have experienced that demons and their buddy boys people hop, so you shouldn’t trust anyone who is not infilled with the Holy Spirit (i.e. told Christ they believe in Him and want to be saved from being influenced by demons).
Most people today reject the Holy Spirit, even relying on their own holiness, which can never understand the unknowable for humans. It’s all in the New Testament of the Bible-even how to tell if people who say they’ve accepted Christ to trick you haven’t (1 John). Know that people without Christ are wildcards, even if they aren’t obviously the Joker.
I went through the same thing and I understand you. Don't stop loving people, please. That are people out there that really need your love and that are deserving of your love. You just need to learn how to spot these kinds of bad people. The world is not only made of liars. You exist. Do you consider yourself an honest person? If yes, there you go. You're not the only honest person in this world. Pay attention to what environments you're inserted in. Pay attention to people's actions and if their actions match their words. If you notice a liar, just stay away. Don't waste your energy arguing with someone like that. You'll be fine! Also, search for therapy!!! ❤
Your ability to articulate is truly your superpower! I love hearing these thoughts beautifully expressed. Could you create some videos to help us understand ourselves and our emotions? I struggle with self-awareness, but I’m very curious.
Having the articulation skills of Dr. K would be pretty rad!
Who are you now, who have you been 3-5 years ago and who will you become in 3-5/10/20 years?
You might check the video record. There is so much good stuff already created (idk, though, how much on the topic you request)
I don’t usually watch a lot of psychology videos on youtube because a lot of them are made by people who aren’t actually qualified to talk about those topics but your videos have genuinely helped me feel not only seen, but also helped me understand the mentality behind certain behaviours among other things. Thank you 😭🙏🏻🙏🏻
I found this video lacking in counterfactual examples. Particularly, how the reactions described in the first 2/3 of the video would differ if the other person is being truthful. It's touched on a bit at the end, but I don't see how the opening example would play out any differently.
An honest person being accused of cheating and afraid of losing their relationship would likely react in the exact same way that Dr K describes. So, all this is really effective at detecting is that someone wants to change your mind about something and cares about the outcome. If someone played this game with me when I was being honest, I would be furious, possibly wrecking any relationship I had with the person.
I was just thinking the same thing.
I think the distinction is how a manipulator is more likely to fluctuate emotionally and try to tackle the goal of manipulating you in different angles.
Only speaking from personal experience, if I was falsely accused about something, I typically counter in disbelief and try to reason with them in a similar emotional state.
Let say it is so outrageous that my wife is convinced I cheated, I get angry. When she "jebaits" me, I'll calm down but I'll be so tunnel visioned on my own anger and would have to sit her down to talk about that. If she flips it on me again, I will likely still be honest with her in a pissed off state.
Internally in my head, I would be thinking about how pissed off I am to hear all this, and I'd be more focused on that as a priority than to try to find tactics to guilt trip her.
Yeah, it's severely undercooked.
While, maybe, a liar would more linearly react to your own "manipulation", negative emotions to negative outcome, positive to positive, I don't think that the majority of people would be able to tell the difference. And it's not something you can train, realistically. Unless you routinely confront liars (knowing already they are liars) and you test this technique on them, you won't get good enough at this before burning various bridges, personal or professional.
Plus, it's so fucking easy for a liar to change their behavior. "Oh, their secret weapon is my emotional fluctuation based on their responses, well I'll just stick to pissed!".
It's realistically the equivalent of "liars wear red hats". Surely some honest people wear red hats too, plus liars can now change to green hats to throw this detection method off.
Plus, it doesn't really help. Say you suspect your partner is cheating, you do this method and the signs show they "are lying". Then what?
- "So I know this lie detection method from Dr. K and you fell right for it, I know you're lying"
- "Whelp, you got me. Damn you Dr. K and your lie detection methods!"
Would people have enough confidence in this to break up, without further proof?
I was unfortunately that honest person (inasmuch as someone can be honest - I was _not_ cheating), and had to ask for a divorce after an embarrassingly short marriage of only 7 months (after having been with her for 6 years prior to getting married).
What's difficult is that actually she was trying to deceive me, but in a more abstract way; it was like a long con. After we got married, she changed a lot, and played hot and cold, trying to tell me that she truly loved me and that she was not treating me the way she was (accusing me of cheating, shit testing me to no avail, a lot of verbal put-downs that had nothing to do with infidelity and I won't share here, and guilt tripping) on purpose, but months later let slip that she was doing it out of resentment. And last I checked, resenting someone is a thing you do intentionally...
I was trying simultaneously to manage her wrathful emotions and to figure out what I was doing wrong, for her comfort, because I felt that if I just found the "golden thing" that was bothering my wife, we could move forward and fix things. I was trying to find a way to change my behavior (how often and with whom I went out, what hobbies I pursued, etc) in order to help alleviate her self-purported constant existential paranoia and pain. I did manipulate her near the end; as I was on my way out of my marriage, I was planning how to get out, what to do, how to persuade her to not seek vengeance and go "full scorched earth" in a divorce, etc... It was like a nasty, weird dance and negotiation, and while it could be seen from a moral perspective as OK, it felt grimy to say the least.
It's only been 7 months since I asked for a divorce, and I still feel ashamed and guilty for manipulating her at all. In other words, through walking the path myself, I would _not_ recommend manipulating a manipulative liar if you don't absolutely have to in order to detect their deception. The emotional fallout has been really scary and difficult, it's made me feel like I was in the wrong because I was being deceptive towards someone who was trying to deceive me in such a subtle way, and I'm still working through it months later and might be working through it for a long time.
Honestly, I don't get why counter-manipulation is suggested as a method of figuring out if a girlfriend is truthful or not. It's probably a great tool when you are navigating the environment where direct communication is not expected (like, probably anything except friendship and marriage/dating), but I'm not sure that this is good method here. I still do agree that you should watch carefully for reactions of the other person to your questions, answers, their overall behavior.
I'm giving up all of my bad habits overnight, a lot thanks to you Dr. k. I'll be documenting it on my channel and I'm hoping it can heal my shattered brain. Thanks for your inspo, cheers!
It's interesting watching a video of something that I've become really good at, and listen to a professional explanation of what's actually happening.
Sadly these skills cost a lot of self reflection and past pain if you discover them by yourself.
Yup. That last 4 years... Rocky road!
I needed this. Thank you. I'm tired of feeling nïeve and manipulated. I wanted to level up this skill for a while now.
The problem with me is I can tell when someone is lying right away. It’s miserable and makes you feel somewhat alone.
@lilzuplada1564 there are plenty of good and honest people out there to never be lonely ever again (not for longer than a while at least). Either you assume someone is lying too early but never test and see if your assumption was true and write off good people because you look for and find something that isnt there, or you don't hang around in the right places and dont meet the right kind of people.
@@mymusicmen13 get over it.
Get over it.
@@jamesmorgan9282get over what lil bro
ignore james
Liars are very polished at lying, while at the same time many people think they are themselves good at detecting lies, when really they are clueless.
There's an argument that goes something like "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
I think the same could be said on counter-manipulation.
Super fascinating thinking about your explanation of what to do with liars and emotionally manipulative people, as over years I developed this defense mechanism on my own having to deal with a lot of them in the past. Started out as just getting apathetic towards the BS over years of being used and taken advantage of so I would just agree and accept the worst case scenario and move forward as if it wasn't true. Then noticing how when I stopped letting my emotions get controlled they suddenly acted very different, and they would panic or even admit they were lying if I took away the consequence for getting caught lying. It's been very useful in diffusing tense situations between friends where one person was being deceitful and figuring out why, as usually the liar has some underlying background situation going on that's also not being addressed. Never really thought about what I was doing laid out in a system like how you explained it though and it's really cool to see that.
The cutting-out-the-bs method seems way more useful. Making a liar think it's in their benefit to tell the truth seems much better.
The example for counter-manipulation is confusing, because the way the liar is being portrayed to behave is also the exact same way a person who is telling the truth would behave. If my partner believes I am cheating on her and I am NOT cheating on her, I am also going to go through a variety of emotions and arguments if she refuses to or cannot believe me. I will be upset, confused, and eventually angry. I will be sad that we are fighting. I will eventually be exhausted that we are arguing. Appealing to someone's emotions is also a normal method of honest persuasion too.
Imagine your spouse accuses you of cheating and you say that you're not (and you aren't), and they say, "Okay, I believe you." Of course you will feel better. If they then do the opposite and say, "...but I don't know if I can trust you," imagine how confusing and upsetting that would be.
How does this observation of behavior separate someone who is telling the truth from someone who is lying?
Very useful. I love your way of explaining things. I have run into another type of trap in this life: people who try break my confidence when they detect that I have a talent. The strange thing is I forgot about it when I moved to a big city with a very generous atmosphere. Now I live in a small city again, where some people do this. In this case, checking out from the conversation and turn to other people is the best way.
what kinds of things did/do they say to test your confidence?
The jealousy some people hold...they will resent you for your potential, for your excellence at reaching said potential...because they are too cowardly to even try to reach theirs 😢
What confuses me about this one: What If the other person is actually telling the truth but you‘re out here pulling this whole deception and manipulation game? They‘ll think you are not trustworthy or a manipulator.
When you try to protect yourself, it's obvious that the other person isn't trying to hurt you. Part of this is having your armor up but knowing not to keep putting more up.
Also you HAVE to put yourself first people will respect you even if they were being honest 💯
People can and will think whatever they want about you.
Use the power for good.
Yea that video is kind of bullshit imo I don't want to get into the habit of manipulating people...
But if someone is telling the truth and you pretend to believe them, they will calm down, and when you pretend not to believe them, they will become more agitated.
The point is that a manipulator will switch tactics, will rapidly switch to a different flavor of emotional manipulation trying to find the one that works. It is that rapid switching that you are looking for.
Big difference. Someone telling the truth will be internally focused if they're not believed. They don't have the wild escalations of emotions to guilt you. They may have a temper but they're racking their brains to figure out why the truth was distorted. Someone lying does not care about their own internal emotions, they are laser focused on manipulating your emotions, to benefit the liar. As described in this vid. liars try 1 tactic after another always increasing their energy levels to leave you feeling weakened & submissive.
I feel like someone could also both be telling and truth and be manipulative, by having anxiety. Anxiety is all about trying to control the situation: "I can't let X happen to me", so I could see them trying everything possible to make you listen
Love the voice.... "I luuuuuuuvvvvvvvviuuuu
12:21 Spot on . Manipulation by love, if does not work then anger, guilt
I view emotion as a dangerous drug. I deal with my own, and are not responsible for your drug abuse. As soon as someone says that they know my emotional state... I already know that they seek to manipulate me, and I already know they cannot.
Someone can know your emotional state and not seek to manipulate you. 🎉
@SelmaThornton-k4d Has not been my experience. Every person that uses emotion has attempted to manipulate me in some manor, by trying to tell me what emotions they thought I was feeling or forcing me to deal with their own. Have ever considered how toxic it is to rely on others for your own emotions? I doubt you have.
@@S_R_AHThis is a normal thing called co-regulation and both co- and self-regulation are needed to be healthy. Calling emotions dangerous drugs actually makes you sound very emotionally stunted.
@Kyrmana Interesting take... If I am emotionally stunted though, how does it help to be constantly subjected to the emotions of others? I mean, if I were stunted, its probably because of the amount of times people forced their own emotions on me in developmental stage: Making 'stunted' the correct stance that separates me from the issue. Regardless of yr opinion, I am how I am. Implying that i am incorrect because you don't like how I am is an 'ad hominem fallacy', and it destroys your rebuttal and yr standing to argue IMO.
@@S_R_AH You're just proving my point. You should probably find a professional to talk about this 1 on 1, they'll be able to help you deal with both your and others emotions. Life can be much easier, my friend.
This is so unbelievably helpful. I can finally break my pattern of ending up in manipulative relationships
The most useful video on the internet to date. Dr.K, legend bro, legend.
This is literally why I have very few friends. And even fewer close friends. I learned this very early on, probably just before I was a teenager.
I have a very small amount of patience for emotional manipulation. As soon as I feel like someone is trying to persuade/ control my emotions for their benefit and it seems to make me feel guilt, shame, FOMO, etc, I jump immediately into observation and questioning mode and back off. When they try to insult me (like in Phase 2, using their anger), I'll admit, at that point I feel like I'm trolling them because I'll validate their emotions without getting my emotions involved which ultimately angers them more. By that point they learn their lesson that it's not a game I'll ever play and they don't talk to me. Ever. The brave ones will do so with more caution.
I've taught this to my children as well.
My son, at 14, is very calm around other's intense emotions, and spots BS quickly. Even my own if I'm not being fully transparent (good for him). Quite honestly he always has been calm although when he was an infant and very young, he would retreat to me during intense emotional or stimulating situations.
My daughter, now 11 and a 6th grader, is learning to spot bullies, manipulators, and attention seekers. She's a love and ideally wants everyone to be okay. She's learning her boundaries and listening to her emotions (quite the fascinating thing for her right now). When she feels like it's not comfortable to be around someone she acknowledges it and finds/ "realizes" she has something else to do to give herself space to process or just decompress.
A year ago she had a really hard time with a friend of 5 years that was becoming an emotionally manipulative, attention seeking bully. Even gaslighting her when called out (and trying to emulate teenagers in media). With my assistance she got out and learned to manage it by setting strong boundaries to stop her. She's happy it ended without drama but hopes her ex friend will grow out of her behavior (the friend transferred out for middle school).
My daughter is still recovering from it. But thankfully, learning what she doesn't want in her relationships has taught her to recognize what she does want. She's also learning to not react too strongly/ anxiously when new people remind her of that friend by being present and observing, and is slowly finding new friends she enjoys being around and can trust. I feel like her intuition is doing well as the kids she's befriending and vibing with are so sweet, playful, thoughtful, validating and easygoing. (And their parents are just as cool too.) As Dr. K has taught us, it's their corrective behaviors that have really helped her heal and work through the trauma of the prior situation.
I do wish these lessons were taught to children earlier. I think we'd see people be more genuine in communicating who they are and what they truly need instead of using manipulation to get it. That said, I imagine this is a learned behavior from their upbringing or experience. It's not my place to judge or diagnose, but I'll to listen to someone's honest feelings and learn from it. Maybe other's would benefit from seeing these challenges as a learning experience too.
My parents have always lived such a healthy relationship that I've become effectively immune to most kinds of manipulation. I've never been gaslighted, never been cheated on, had my last toxic friendship 11 years ago when I was 13, and just generally never felt deceived in any relationship. I used to think this was pretty normal and was horrified to learn what kind of other shit people were dealing with.
None of this was explicitly taught to me, though. I feel like just watching my parents do it the right way was enough, because when I saw someone do it the wrong way, it felt so alien to me that I got put off immediately.
And I completely relate to the trolling😂 I'll see people try to trigger me and figure out my insecurities to manipulate me, and I can't help but be amused and play along because it's so hilariously obvious. I still haven't figured out if that's mean on my part or warranted, but either way, very funny
Next time, include a tldr.
Fascinating and useful. Learned a heap ... Thx for sharing the differences in each example ... So informative so imo, could have been lengthier. Thx
Hunans are funny creatures right. No way i could love one 😂
High chance of these techniques NOT working if you yourself haven’t dealt with your own issues like emotional dysregulation and internal boundaries.
As a 50-something who’s juggled toxic family and abusive partners I can share the best method for dealing with liars/manipulators is don’t dance with them. Just say no and walk away.
I don’t have to try and sus out what the truth is anymore because I base my choices off actions and underlying patterns. If someone repeatedly acts shady, has outbursts, acts rude or mean, or consistently makes me uncomfortable…I walk away. I no longer wait to see ‘how it will play out’ or give them chance after chance to prove themselves. If that means no contact then so be it. I do not have the time or bandwidth to play games.
It’s not always easy but it’s part of my moral code now. I’m always willing to talk thru a thing once but if it isn’t followed by action I’m done. Life is too short.
Part of what makes boundary setting challenging is that it requires self worth, or at least a cultivated sense of optimism…no matter how shit things seem (rejection, loneliness, etc) you hold onto the belief that these experiences are fluid and will shift into something better over time.
Exactly. Always listen to people's actions, and respond to them with your own. Don't get caught up in pretty words. And as I've grown older I've learnt the best solution to these situations is to opt out of the games manipulators play...don't waste your time trying to win, especially if you're emotionally attached to the situation, opt out.
I learnt that I have the power to leave and leave I shall.
I really hope enough people watch this video. That at some point there is a misunderstanding that someone is being manipulative. And they both start using counter-manipulation, then it devolves into counter-counter manipulation. Until there is some breakthrough in which they both people realize they are telling the truth.
This seems really hard if you're not used to interacting with people like this. I feel like the interaction with the maybe liar would not leave much brain power for thinking about the metainteraction.
That's why I just opt out of these kinds of situations. I detatch
Hey, I was a mythomaniac and I can say not only that this is absolutely true, but I also discovered some things I was doing unconciously and till this day I still improving even tho it's been a while since I don't say a lie. Thanks K for your amazing job, and please if you encounter a mythomaniac beloved reach em some help, cause quite a time will pass until they admit they have a problem
This is the most informative video on manipulation ever. Thank you for your work. I never realized this was happening to me. Now I need the courage to leave
I think I need to watch this video more than once, or get more examples.
Especially concerning gaslighting where they toy with your emotions. And when you express them, they slam the "I'm not responsible for your emotions".
"If you don't care about my emotions, why are we even here?". A person who loves you will be sad knowing they caused you pain evem if it wasn't intentional.
There is of course a mirror situation where it's the person saying what I said above that's the abuser, for example always being like "look how sad you make me" every time you bring up any issues, but... I guess just be reasonable and don't manipulate people and you'll be good.
@@tymondabrowski12 I always wonder if I'm manipulative or not. I always try to be genuine.
I always put myself in question, but I want to be sure I'm not gaslighting myself either. Like to bury down emotions, because they are not "correct".
For instance, I get anxious when someone sends a text, I answer back right away, and the person doesn't answer for hours.
I'm reading about anxious attachment, but at the same time, it feels disingenuous from them to be present one sec, and not the next one, you know?
I noticed some people answer with "I got your message, I'll think about it and come back to you". Some people don't do that at all. When is it ok to complain you know?
@@paulv2348 Maaaaaybe, you are abandoning your self to please others, then become resentful when the "effort" is not reciprocated (notice: an effort they did not ask for). In that case you need to learn to put your own self first before others. And learn to give without needing ANYTHING back in return. And if you can't give in that way, don't give at all. Then you won't become resentful. Have fun and stay curious! :)
@@tothemoon8465 you might be right.
But also...
I don't like to always put myself first. It gets lonely. I do hikes, I read, I cook, etc. I just want to share that.
I love to give love. But sometimes, they just take and don't reciprocate. And I can't give forever, stay curious about them, but they don't reciprocate.
And I have to redo all the effort again with someone new because I will move on.
Then I feel lonely.
I can't spend my life with just myself. I want to share experiences, I want to be hugged, I want to be loved. A smile brings me joy. I want someone who cares about bringing me joy in the same way.
@@paulv2348 i feel u bro. But this repeating situation for you will keep repeating until you learn your lesson. "You find the most valuable treasure in the places where you least want to look" Jordan Peterson. You might benefit from setting boundaries, so you can keep your energy to yourself AND to the people that actually reciprocate your energy. Now you're wasting it left and right and feel shit about it. And I don't blame you, it's not your fault. But it is your responsibility to fix. You might benefit of watching Jordan Petersons lecture series "Maps of Meaning (2017) " on his yt channel. Has helped me a lot. I used to have that same issue too. Cheers and GL
From my experience, those with intention to lie or hide facts tend to shift and shuffle around different topics/emotions rather than going straight to the point. Which is a bit similar to what Dr. K suggested, the using of different emotions to try to manipulate.
For honest people having real issues, they tend to harp on the same issue because that IS the major thing they have on their minds at the moment.
Alright, now I need a guide on how to deal with false accusations and how to stop feeling guilty for being accused of something patently untrue. How can we dispel accusations when we can't simply prove that we are telling the truth? How to stop feeling dirty after being accused, how to detach emotionally from that guilt and shame when the accuser tells you that their suspicions are rooted in their past?
I feel awful after being accused of something I didn't do and after resolving the issue I can't shake these feelings even if I *know*, cognitively, that I did nothing wrong, even when the person themselves apologized and explained that they are suspicious because they've been hurt before. Being with someone who was very suspicious and accusatory made me obsessively collect evidence of where I am and who ai am with and why - even when I have been single for long.
For the same reason - I feel guilty confronting someone without concrete proof - even in situations where concrete proof simply cannot exist.
It sucks to be "delicate".
These videos make me feel smarter to a point where I question is it okay to do this? But then I remember that they’re the one manipulating me.
You're being manipulated into learning how to stop getting manipulated.
Another powerful weapon is to let the liar know that you don't trust anything they say. They move on very quickly after that.
Isn't this also the behavior of someone who doesn't lie but wants to be believed because of the consequences he would face if he wasn't believed.
I find it pretty challenging to cleverly stand up against someone's lie, not only because some people are exceptionally adept at lying but mostly because of a "me" thing to be fair (and also, sometimes circumstances surrounding certain lies can more or less impede one's effectiveness at standing up against said lie).
What i mean by a "me" thing is that i was pretty naive for years and years, i'm still a lot naive in reality but i've also learned to be quite more skeptical, though in my naivete there's this little something that wants to believe people are not as dishonest as that. Needless to say, i got gaslit and all those kinds of things more than anyone would ever like.
I also refuse to lie in order to catch someone in a lie, i don't want to become that which hurts so many people in order to save myself, i don't want to nurture the chain of lying either. Instead i've learned to call them out instantly once i would pick up on their bs (with more or less tact depending on the circumstances around it, but never acting insulting, mad, swearing, or other overly aggressive demeanors), and after years of doing that you can often tell who has a liar's reaction or an innocent reaction to being called out.
What's pretty funny is that those who claim to be super smart are some of the poorest liars out there, but others are definitely the most creative, crafty and silver-tongued demons whispering in your ear. It's especially tough when the liar believes his own lie, though i've mostly encountered such people back in psychiatric hospitals, some don't even realize they are lying at all... My sympathies to those who genuinely struggle with pathological lying. Outside of that context, people who end up believing their own lies are actually pretty rare and also a moment where facts are absolutely needed in order to break through such deep rooted lies. But I digress...
Lies are a complex matter, and i applaud you for this video on the subject, thank you very much for your work !
I've definitely heard before that the best lie is the one you belive yourself.
Okay, this is creepy. I was literally just thinking about how many people in the past tried to make me think I was in the wrong when I wasn't.
Edit - My point isn't that I am perfect or that I can't improve in any way. That couldn't be further from the truth. My point is that in situations where I was mistreated, I was gaslight into thinking I was wrong in situations where I did nothing wrong.
Also, regarding me standing up for myself. That is easier said than done. I don't like arguing with people. It physically stresses me out. Also, I have met an abundance of people (some of whom were 10/15/20 years older than me) who don't want to listen. In my opinion, I don't see why I should try and explain my point to someone who doesn't want to hear it.
Also, when I say I want people to listen. I don't mean I want people to blindly agree with me. I mean I want people who are willing to try and see my point of view and understand where I am coming from. If I am wrong, I would rather people point out where I went wrong and give constructive feedback rather than discard my opinion altogether.
Also, I'm 20. I'm still trying to figure things out.
Stand up for yourself when you are right, literally no one else will and no one worth your time will get upset that you stood up for yourself. In fact, its a good filter.
And if you find out that you were wrong, good! At least you talked about it instead of quietly disagreeing (which leads to further communication barriers)
When you are in a position where your interlocutor refuses to listen to you, you are in the midst of a power dynamic, not a relationship. This is a cold war that you're describing here - fight it like one, using leverage against them and diplomacy with potent allies. Show no mercy.
@@AlastorTheNPDemon hahhhh. thanks, i needed to hear that. it's what i've been feeling for a while but didn't have the words to describe. i'll remember that one.
Completely understand where you’re coming from mate! I’ve lived what you’re taking about. To have the maturity, introspection, self-awareness and resilience you have at 20, you’re doing amazing! Love from Aus ❤🇦🇺
Dr K's Guide to Gaslight your gaslighter 😂❤
I used to pathologically lie because my adhd, rejection dysphoria etc I worked it through and got a sense of self worth and feel ok with feeling unpleasant emotions if it finally makes me a better person and helps me in the end. now I send this movie to everyone and tell them to challenge me if I do this shit. It’s a learning moment for me
You are a hero because you are reaching out to a lot of people that otherwise could not afford it or don't know where to look.
How to deal with aggressors who believe they are fundamentally superior to you...
From this video, by not taking it personally. It’s their problem that they’re delusional about being superior. By being offended/slighted by them, they are successful at controlling you.
@@di_kid00That doesn’t deal with the “aggressor” part. In my experience, someone who is like that and is actively trying to subdue you isn’t going to care if you’re “Zen” about it. You have to fight back; however, they’ll fight dirty. So have backup. If you can, get away.
It's actually so funny when you do not react to people their BS. They become see through
@@davidross2004 it may help to just walk away. If it gets physical, that’s another issue and you should defend yourself! Coming from a family that was physical and mentally manipulative, the best decision I made for myself was to disengage & walk away. Go grey rock & not care at all for their BS.
@@di_kid00 Now that’s something that I can get behind.
Its kind of unfortunate that because of social anxiety I am so nervous of people hating me that I find unaceptable for them to even suspect anything wrong from me. So even if I am telling the truth I am so triggered about it that I look like I am lying. So this technique would definetely fuck me up.
Just to be clear. I always look suspicious because I am always scared people will hate me. And my goal, or my minds goal is to manipulate that so people will always like me. So even if I am telling the truth my mind go through a manipulative spiral.
A wise man once said, "With great power comes great responsibility "
My wife cheated on me in the last month.
My response is the way you described the liar to be.
Telling her all that I’ve done for her and being angry and she’s the one trying to avoid conversation acting as if I’m the one who did the wrong. 😢
This all sounds so difficult to actually work through with someone.. I'm afraid I won't be able to do it. All I have is a gut feeling and a boundary about aggression, but actually it's kind of too late at that point because I'll stay anxious about a person like that long after they acted (passive)aggressive. Getting upset and making me feel guilty about having feelings is the worst thing ever :(
I love these videos. Such positivity& knowledge in a vast amount of negativity& division. Were need more ppl like him speaking& teaching about human nature, psychology & sociology. This is very interesting info & shows how we're ALL manipulated on a small & larger stage as well. We are all humans.. none of us are better than anyone else based on gender, race or sexual orientation.. or any less capable of being manipulated.
What about when someone accuses you of doing something that you didn't do, and then accuses you of lying about it?
Ask them what they want to get saying that. And then when they answer, tell them "ah now I know why you are accusing me of something that I didn't do"
If you remain calm and rational, then they can’t manipulate you. If you get hurt and upset, then your ability to think clearly evaporates. Then they manipulate you. So the question is, did they get you to become emotional by doing that? The other thing that everyone is missing is that a good person doesn’t want to upset you. A good person will slow down and quiet down the conversation when they see you are getting emotional. A manipulator will step on the gas pedal when they find a way to upset you.
@@johnhunt2390 I got tired of it and ended the relationship.
You're basically being as bad as them or possibly hurting someone who is being honest.
Wow; that would apply to what you hear and read on the news, from govt, and "authorities". Luckily I have always had that thing where i'm unsure, so i step away and watch and assess things for a while before I am confident about "it" and then I join in if it's a good idea for me or move forward in the direction I am comfortable with. Honestly, at age 57 - 4 years ago (hint hint) I started to noticed this with the news etc. Thank you for this video, sir.
What I wonder is, how do I deal with someone who has been lied to, and that person doesn't want to let that lie go. My observation so far is, if I bring up anything that puts their world view in danger, they get angry.
Firstly, be someone they will respect. One of the easiest ways is by acknowledging what is true about their world view. Second, spoon feed them facts that don’t contradict them but make them question an aspect of it. Then it’s a grind until they change. There are people beyond changing, and this method can be unfruitful. If you don’t disconnect them from the source of misinformation then nothing changes.
Some of us are too empathetic. We cannot play deceptive and make the liar lose. 😢
Dr K: you are not a detective
Also Dr K: just act like Columbo
"You said this is not your fault, instead that i'm mistaken. You said its not what it seems, no remorse from the trust you breaking" from Linkin Park 'Blackout'. Really shed a light on how manipulative people are around me.
This kind of reminds me of the Reid interrogation technique investigators use (even though it’s probably very different). They start off by building rapport with the suspect by telling the suspect “I don’t think you’re a bad person…” etc.. and then eventually ramp it up with a confrontation
This is just basic communication technique. It applies everywhere, so most people learn it sooner or later, some subconsciousy, others are very aware of it.
@@Volkbrecht Hello, my friend. Did you mean that the Reid Technique is a basic communication technique?
@@Lazdinger No, establishing rapport is. You can't convince other people of anything if they do not at least see you as a fellow human being that they have a modicum of respect for, be that in sales, in hostage negotiations or in a manipulative friendship. This is why this is referenced in any work that is somehow related to communication.
@@Volkbrecht Ah, I understand. Thank you, my friend. Yeah that makes sense. That’s probably what reminded me of the Reid technique - the _rapport_ building. I guess that’s what makes them so effective; both the RT and what Dr. K is talking about.
Isn't this technique quite famous for producing false confessions leading people to jail for crimes they didn't commit?
My "friend" talked me into investing his business and took my work and paid me next to nothing for it. I was supposed to be receiving profit shares and he refused to pay out. I knew it was going nowhere and finally gave up when he started trying to convince me that profit share trying to convince me that I owed him money if I pursued this any further. I don't think there's any way I could have done anything other than get out before I got too hurt. I wish I had these skill earlier on or maybe a little bit more self esteem to act on the red flags.
@@hideandsneakmalakk You are not alone. 1/3 of people are victims of white collars crimes in the US. Fraudulent inducement, bad faith negotiations, embezzlement, IP fraud-we have names for these things, but in my experience narc lawyers are part of the same hive mind as the perps. Govs are very aware of this, and many states have great laws if you can find one of the 3 lawyers who will take contingency for a non-personal injury case.
If it's an mlm / pyramid scheme (assuming sth like that because it's so common) he has someone he "owes" as well who's promising him returns for his investment etc and at the end of the chain there's just some guy in the Bahamas hoarding all that money. This shit will turn normal everyday people into scammers who fuck over all their friends, neighbors and family. It's like a cult but more contagious.
So, I was once accused of cheating by a partner. (0% validity to that accusation) In fact, in many ways, the situation in which I "had the opportunity to cheat" was created by them. If remember being crushed when they thought that of me, that I was capable and willing to cheat. I tried to ease their mind, I tried to create systems of accountability, I suggested cutting ties with people they might feel worried about me communicating with. No matter what I said, they would just say "that's something that a liar would say if they were cheating." I don't really get that. I wasn't saying "you're nuts, your feelings don't matter. I don't need to tell you anything." My response was like "how to I ease your mind? what boundaries do I need to set to make you more comfortable? Tell me more about what made you feel this way." But nothing I said could make it better, and eventually they sort of just dropped the subject by saying "I know you probably didn't cheat but I'll still never know if you did or not for sure."
But from my perspective, EVERY situation he was feeling insecure about everything I did that upset him were things he verbally asked me to do, or situations he put me in....
Any idea why he was like this?
Either he's so insecure you could never have a real relationship with him, or he's the one cheating and projecting onto you. In any case, that's not someone you can stay with.
@@seekingfinding6204 Sorry you had to go through that with them, it sounds exhausting. Insecurity and cheaters go hand in hand.
So you asked him if he wanted you to stop doing thia or that . which means you knew on some level those things bothered him. So why didnt you just stop doing them instead of askimg and comtinuing to do them?
Same with situations you say he put you into made him upset. Dont do them then.
I think that a lot of people on some level play games or do things to see if the person gets jealous . if they do they care . not true .
That never works.
And people want to believe they tried their hardest and did everything they could. But no not really . because those werent things you felt you should change or didnt want to change.
Just my opinion . could be wrong or just telling way too much about myself
@@IdowhatIwant8 I agree with you. I think personal responsibility is rare these days and this could be an example of someone who is blameless and only looks outwards.
So many people (including myself in the past) will complain and blame other people as if they were completely helpless to make the situation any better. For me, this commenter screams red flags more than anything, and commenting like that could be a way of trying to prove to themselves that they didn't do anything wrong, and of course people will agree with them without any context to further reinforce that belief.
Just a thought i had.
Beautiful explanation. Answered my question on emotional vs manipulative behaviour at the end of the video.
However, also a bit concerning, if I think back to some experiences.
Sometimes she/he won't be lying but having cognitive distortions and those feel negative.
That psychological pressure is the reaction to feeling like you are being manipulated with intimidations, accusations or seductions which are generated from the stress responses of fight, flight, freeze and fawn, so she/he is already feeling what you'll feel.
If you repeat what someone else say to you as a matter of recognizing that he/she feels/believes it without you believing the content of it then she/he calms down and you are able to separate it: 'it's true that she/he says that but is it true what she/he is saying?'
And most importantly, the same applies for yourself internally.
Havent seen the video yet. But one of my problems is that i fear everyone is using my feelings against me. I have a hard time dicerning when someone is being genuine or manipulative. So with that fear i tend to just be untrusting of anyone which then leads to a bit of isolation. Its tough
Maybe don't be so manipulated by your emotions then you won't have to worry about people using your emotions against you. This is known as "emotional intelligence".
This makes it sound very one sided tho. Ive been in a situation, in which I had to show my phone etc and eventho I didnt do anything wrong and had no intention to, but it just felt so uncomfortable to feel forced to "prove" my love by showing my phone and try to convince the other person of my intentions. That felt so stressful and toxic tbh
That is toxic.
The second someone demands my phone I know they don't trust me, and it's already over. No reason to prove anything there.
So... Hmm... This seems like a very good video on how to mess with someone you know is lying. This also seems like a very bad video for how to find out if someone is lying and instead a very good video on how to play games and mess up any trust there was from the other person.
The thing is, these tricks work on liars but they also work on people telling the truth. Anyone being accused of cheating is going to be nervous and then calm down when you tell them you believe them. What's more, any sensible person will hear "You're right, I have no reason to distrust you, but I don't trust you anyway" and they're going to think "Well, what do I do now then? Evidence-wise and logically we agree that I'm in the clear but you're going to keep raking me over the coals because you feel weird?" Like, any sensible person will be like "No, this person is a game player and I've not got the patience for having my nerves frayed by them flipping and flopping and being irrational and emotional all the time."
"Use this power for good" is all well and good but that assumes people can tell when it's appropriate or not appropriate to use this. I think many people will see this video and start using this in almost every situation because there's always the possibility of someone lying.
That said, one of the later examples was really good and an example I'd recommend people follow. Casually saying "Oh, don't worry about it, I'll see that investor at lunch, so I'll just let them know then." is a great way to deal with the situation. It's sensible, it assumes good intention and yet it would still catch them out in their lie if they chose to lie. It's also not unreasonable for you to do.
It's better to play the fool and 'blunder' through their lies than to play games.
A similar example that happened to me the other day: I got a scam caller and I honestly didn't know if it was from my service provider or not. They were offering a loyalty discount on my next contract so I said "Oh, great, sure, you go ahead and apply that then." If it were my service provider then hurray, I get a discount. If it's not, I know they'll ask for more. So they begin asking for 'verification' and wanted my email address. Now, I only have one email address but they don't know that. So I said "Oh, sure, can you tell me the first 3 letters you have on file? I can't remember which email address I used when I signed up for my contract." Essentially, testing if they had any file at all, because the jury wasn't completely out on whether it was my actual service provider or not yet. When they failed to provide that I let the facade drop and told them I thought it was a scam and then hung up on them.
So instead of playing emotional games, I would recommend the opposite: not being emotional while assuming good-will and then pretending to be stupid so that they have to tell you exactly what they want and how they want you to do it, because if they're trying to manipulate you into doing it, it's not the kind of thing they can just ask you to do.
advice about scam caller is very good, ty.
this is the best video ever! It came exactly when i needed it the most. Thank you so much Dr. K!
This feels very manipulative if it turns out the person isn't lying
Yes, but as he said, it is diagnostic as well. The decoupling of your analysis and emotion allows you to better figure out if they are lying at all. As soon as you’re sure, you can alter back to healthier relations.
@@liampriestman4090 All manipulatives feel hurt whenever they see someone is empowering their targets !!
An honest, non-manipulative person doesn’t keep shifting trying to find another way to emotionally manipulate you.
@@liampriestman4090 You just can't tolerate others empowering innocents cause it'll rob you from manipulating them ...
I have a natural very good BS detector, I could never articulate how it worked, but Dr K has. You don't have to keep playing with people's feelings like he describes here. I always called it "single" v "double" feelings (which made sense to no one 😅): real feelings have a life of their own and don't really react to your response. They just are what they are.
Like me yesterday, my car broke down. I felt irrationally guilty (repair will be expensive), I told my husband, he comforted me, but I still felt bad. The emotion didn't exist for the purpose of influencing hub's behavior, it existed for its own sake (my values, history, etc.)
No contact is better but this does work a treat, eventually they will realise that they aren't going to get anything and naturally move on
Was so confused when i saw this. Im thinking didn't he just do one for deep dive into meditation 😅😅
Love the videos. Take care / take it easy😅😊
Thank you so much for this video! Could you make more content on gaslighting, manipulation, and similar topics? I once caught someone lying and, coincidentally, I used the exact approach you suggested. He ran out of the room and avoided me for weeks. But later on, he backstabbed me. Situations like that, with manipulative games and betrayal, are really frustrating. How do you handle these kinds of behaviors in the long run? Especially when people laugh at you if you tell them that you are on their side, but they have to be honest? How do you deal with people who don’t take you seriously, where every conversation feels like walking on eggshells, and any wrong word sets them off? And all your questions are getting ignored or laughed at, like it's really something stupid?
I believe the honest truth is that the only right move in the situations you describe is to distance yourself from these people. If they’re not interested in engaging with you honestly and insist on deception or malice, they’re acting in bad faith. You can never force someone to act a certain way - you simply have to define and enforce your boundaries. Best wishes, I hope you meet more people who are as kind and authentic as you aim to be.
@@augustgremaud2738 thanks a lot for your comment and wishes :)
Dear Dr. K
Over the last few months I’ve been struggling with starvation ketosis, in which it had lead to pre diabetes, which had my emotions all out of whack at certain times, especially when being confronted. I’ve watched you for awhile, and really agree with most of the things you say. But I think that this could potentially lead to problems- as the old saying goes. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Watching this video, and looking back on the relationship I just got out of, as I was being manipulated- I think my ex had watched this video, thought she was being manipulated, and had taken the “manipulate them back advice” and has now become a manipulator herself. Either we agree on something entirely already, or I’m wrong and it devolves into a whole argument where I need to apologize, then try and fix things, and it had really almost felt like a form of projection. I think this video may have caused a misunderstanding between us, and I had to leave because of the manipulation that I had seen. I can see how it makes sense for self defense, but I think that it needs to be said earlier on in the video how one can for sure know that they’re being manipulated..
Now I understand politicians
So what do you do when you have truly lost your controlled prescription and the doc automatically does not believe you? Or that you did better on a certain prescription, stopped it because you couldn't afford it, and now can't get it because they think you're drug-seeking? Poggers.
Poggers indeed 👎
Wow…
Watching this and realizing I did this intuitively when someone close to me lied to me. Nice to know that I was doing the right thing 😅
As a woman who's currently surrounded by manipulative people (mostly other women) i think i unintentionally made myself a target by being sincere with these people from day 1. For additonal context I'm in college, i focus on my studies and dont involve myself in drama, i dont entertain bad faith gossip about others either, basically i didn't conform. And now ive begun to notice a lot of attempts to manipulate my behaviour to get myself into trouble, specifically because i have a very good relationship with the teachers.
The way ive been combating this is by getting along with these people on a surface level but never recelaing anything personal, distancing myself when i notice an attempt to influence my behaviour, and most importantly being consistently good at studies, maintaining good relations with teachers and expanding my acquaintance/circle to non manipulative people.
Yet they wont leave me alone, i can see that they're still waiting and trying to create opportunities for me to mess up. How do i get rid of them? Continue ignoring them?
I can imagine that i f I would spoke truth and they "but i still dont know if I can trust you" would be furious to ensure them too
The tactic of a liar seems similar to someone genuinely trying to convince someone to help.
This is disgusting, you are doing exactly what my child psychiatrist does to dismiss the serious issues that I try to get addressed.
Okay nice, because I mostly lack emotions I will always be considered a liar then? What now?
Would be good to see more about counter manipulation from Dr K, since this one scratched the surface!
Inconsistent, fluctuating emotions is a great clue to look out for
Excellent! Love this guy! Tells it like it is!
I like the video I think its an amazing way to spread awereness. The problem with it tho is that it spreads the awereness to both sides. The liar is also gonna learn from this video.
Unique take and valuable content. I plan to share this with friends.
14:51 as someone who uses recreational drugs i can tell you for a fact that one adderall is not $40.
I would maybe believe 20$ max
I am so, *so* terrified that I act this way. I act in ways that are out of character and then just get so emotional, I can’t even control it, I admit it and feel so so guilty and I’m scared I feel that guilt to make the other person I wronged just be okay with it. I don’t know what to do really, I feel like most of my life is spent trying to suppress that side of me, the one that acts in ways I don’t agree with and then tries so desperately to cover it up, I’m riddled with guilt for things I feel like I never did but I *did do them* and then just tried to fix it. I want to fix it but I can’t and I feel like such a horrible person. I hate myself for it. I hope I’m not a narcissist or a sociopath but I’m just so scared that that’s how I act.
Your videos are amazing! So happy I found this channel, thanks.
My mom’s friend found video of her husband having sex with his mistress. First thing he said was “It’s not what you think”
My ex told me she was dyslexic (I was teaching her write Korean since she mentioned liking k-dramas). A few weeks later I took her to the movies. I wasn’t expecting this, but the movie I picked was 90% subtitles (I thought it’d be more like 10-15%). I felt bad during the movie but neither of us brought it up. After the movie I asked her if she had trouble reading the subtitles. She said no, and asked why I was asking. Empathically I said: “because of your dyslexia.” She knew she had been caught. Tried to convince me she said “just kidding” after telling me she had dyslexia. I don’t remember her saying she was kidding. I remember her playing along when I asked if she was being serious, probably to get my sympathy. I could never trust her again 100% which led to the eventual breakup.
I like to put this into the perspective of societal pressures and activism extremists. Especially with the emotional manipulation through gaslighting, labeling, and othering.
This is a partial explanation for one of the causes of delayed diagnosis: unending suspicion. There's also the lack of follow-through, and lack of education and experience with different conditions, but still claiming to be authorities on every single condition without talking to a variety of patients of different severities.
It resulted in misdiagnosis, missed diagnosis, and delayed diagnosis for 15+ years, and perpetuated the manipulation I experienced from specific people.
When work requires accommodations, but a colleague is manipulating, then they can use my undiagnosed conditions to scapegoat, because medical professional didn't write a letter of accommodation. This resulted in loss of income. Then I'm in burnout and traumatized, and then conditions worsened, which also resulted in a persistent loss of income.
Ask yourself: who will be harmed before you selectively cast suspicion on people you think are weird, even if you enjoy bonding over gossip and hope to resolve what people did to you.
This is essential stuff! Thanks for teaching it to us softies!
Thank you so much for this video Dr.K. ❤
This video is definetely for me. I totally cannot distinct of someone is manipulating me or not. I was raised by father who tought me that you should "always always tell the truth". So I did most of my young life. Only to realize after many years how stupid this advice is. Because you CANNOT always tell the truth. And you cannot trust that other people don't lie to you. So I learned hard way how much I can be manipulated and how little I see actually. I am much better about seeing when other people are deceived, like when my friends are telling me stories about their relationships I just SEE, they are manipulated. I can't see when someone manipulates me...